"a false prophet named (fill in the blank here) has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy" (John of Damascus c. 680 AD)

@Danaluni59

Жыл бұрын

Moo Haa Mood

As a Catholic in Utah, I thank Trent for giving others this insight. It is very difficult to be Catholic while living in this state.

@lonelyberg1808

3 жыл бұрын

they knock on your door ?

@glenlevinzon3012

3 жыл бұрын

@@lonelyberg1808 no. But they try to be friends with Catholics without thinking we’re different

@lonelyberg1808

3 жыл бұрын

@@glenlevinzon3012 ahhh, so that's not a big deal

@marcokite

Жыл бұрын

@@lonelyberg1808 - why? what did he say?

@marcokite

Жыл бұрын

i live in England and have often wondered what it's like to me a Catholic in Utah!

The most difficult aspect to debating a mormon is...because they're so nice. Their theology is very esoteric and easy to pick apart but when they're looking you in the eyes smiling and offering to mow your lawn...dang it!

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

We're not always nice. For example, I'm going to challenge you to pick apart the theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints here, and if you do so by straw-manning our beliefs, I'm going to call you out on it--bluntly. But I'd still be willing to mow your lawn for you.

@toddbyrd9071

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldthompson9294 maybe start with how God can be a creature? Who created these gods and why would you willingly worship a creature instead of the creator? At the very least you know your god had a god. Why not worship that god since he is, by nature, a more powerful being?

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

@@toddbyrd9071 Good questions. I'm one of those "Mormons" who does not believe in an eternal regression of gods. Yes, there are quite a lot of us who do not believe this. I don't believe in an eternal regression of gods because our scriptures do not support such a view, and because, as you point out, it does not make sense. Although there have been speculations about the nature of God by some of our leaders that include this idea of an eternal regression of gods, these speculations never actually became official church doctrine. What The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affirms as doctrine is that there is only one true God that we are to worship.

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

@@toddbyrd9071 The Latter Day Saints who affirm an eternal regression of gods seem to argue along this line: because we know of only the God revealed in scriptures to us, and since He is our Father, we worship only Him. Our worship of God is not dictated by which God is more powerful (because, when a being has attained godhood, that means He is united perfectly in mind, will, purpose and love with all other beings who are Gods, so much so that it can be said there is only one God, and if you are worshiping one God, you are essentially worshiping all the other Gods).

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

@@toddbyrd9071 How can God be a creature? This is the question that prevents me from accepting an eternal regression of gods. The regression back must stop eventually. I know of Latter Day Saint philosophers who argue that there can be an eternal regression of past events, but I'm just not bright enough to understand their arguments.

Please do one of these summaries for Jehovah's Witness's.

@martinkent333

Жыл бұрын

Cults are very exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@martinkent333

Жыл бұрын

CULTS ARE FUN FOR ALL CHRISTIANS, CUPCAKE.

@Icanonlyimagn7891

Жыл бұрын

Maybe inviting a leader from the Jehovah Witness to give you a summary of what they believe? Going to the source is amazing, and then you get the truth and facts rather than some truth and a lot of misinformation… I had heard some salacious stuff about the Jehovah Witnesses, and wanted to see if what was being implied was true… it wasn’t. It was fascinating, fun and informative learning about what they really believe. Though I do not follow their belief system, I refuse to be a person who spreads lies. ☀️💕

@martinkent333

Жыл бұрын

@@Icanonlyimagn7891 ISN'T IT MIRACULOUS THAT ALL THE GROOVY CHRISTIAN CULTS BELIEVE IN HEBREW MYTHS? JERUSALEM IS A GEOPOLITICALLY STRATEGIC PLACE - THE HIGH GROUND BETWEEN THREE CONTINENTS. WITH WEEKLY BRAINWASHING AND INVISIBLE ENEMIES, THE HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY CHRISTIAN HUSTLERS HAVE ONE BILLION RUBES COMPLETELY WILLING TO DIE FOR THEIR MAGIC HANDBOOK WITH TALKING ANIMALS, CUPCAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU MUST BE DAZZLED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TELL ME MORE ABOUT HOW THE 200,000 RAPED ALTAR BOYS FOUND CHRISTIAN ECSTASY WITH CHRISTIAN HOLY MEN, SUNSHINE GIRL!!!! I AM WAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@TruLuan

Ай бұрын

If you are a JW then you are spreading lies. Their material is dishonest. Did you know they lied about Tertullian not being a trinitarian in their "should you believe in the trinity" brochure? They also don't worship. Reading magazines and how to recruit meetings are not true worship. Look up how the early Christians worshipped then read Malachi 1:11. JWs don't offer sacrifice (Eucharist according to John 6) they don't use incense either. They are clueless and are forced to be nice, most are PIMOS (Physically In, Mentally Out) because they don't want to lose their friends and family, which the JWs use as blackmail to keep you in. It's sick. ​@@Icanonlyimagn7891

The religious history of Mormonism sounds fascinating from a mythological perspective

@deusimperator

3 жыл бұрын

@Tromso Prefect Same with whatever mythos you may believe

@cinnamondan4984

3 жыл бұрын

Have you seen Mormon Murders on Netflix?

@almustaphaalshahid1896

3 жыл бұрын

See Dan Vogel, his channel looks at the origins of the Hebrew myth.

@Emper0rH0rde

2 жыл бұрын

It makes pretty good science fiction. There was a TV show back in the '70s called Battlestar Galactica, and the mythology of the show is basically Mormon theology copied and pasted.

@marvalice3455

Жыл бұрын

@@Emper0rH0rde it's not "copy pasted" the show was funded by the mormons and intended as an evangelism tool, though it didn't really get used that way.

Joseph Smith = The L. Ron Hubbard of the 19th century.

@BarrettVanDyke

Жыл бұрын

How so?

@raydavison4288

Жыл бұрын

@@BarrettVanDyke: They were both cult leaders and mountebanks.

@LauFiu

Жыл бұрын

@@BarrettVanDyke An imaginary is an imaginary is an imaginary

@BarrettVanDyke

Жыл бұрын

@@LauFiu Do you see Joseph Smith as a charlatan or as delusional? Or both?

@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal

Жыл бұрын

​@@BarrettVanDyke I've wondered that for a long time. He's definitely crazy or evil, can't decide which

Good to know , Trent ! We're visiting Utah in October and will defend our Catholic faith if we need to !

@x10mark24

3 жыл бұрын

as someone who has spent a lot of time in utah, you should be fine, most Mormons are quite reasonable

@Icanonlyimagn7891

Ай бұрын

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints love our Catholic brothers and sisters. My husband was Catholic for years. Read the Book of Mormon to prove it wrong and had a special experience with Christ. Was baptized a few weeks later into the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. (He was a rabid anti “Mormon” for years.) We take our children to mass every Christmas and go to mass with their grandma often. We consider Catholicism special and an important part of our LDS family’s traditions. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS love all God’s children and Celebrate when anyone love Christ and seeks to live His commandments and follow in His way. ☀️❤️

I was born and raised in Salt Lake and I recently came to Christ. It just depresses me to learn things about Mormonism now because I think of all my friends and family who believe in it and how there’s nothing I could do to convince them otherwise. I can quote scripture disproving Smith’s teachings and I can show them Smith’s false prophecies but nothing works. Their hearts are hardened like the shell of a turtle and what’s worse is they don’t even see it. Please, brothers and sisters, pray for my home state.

@Scott23882

8 ай бұрын

God has a God Hebrews 1:9

@hollayevladimiroff131

2 ай бұрын

I will pray for you and your family, stay strong, stay with God and the word of God and find a reformed Presbyterian church.

@Icanonlyimagn7891

28 күн бұрын

@@hollayevladimiroff131 make sure to stay away from the kindest, most God-loving, faith filled, service oriented, charitable Christlike people around. Who follow the devil, delusional man that restored the Church of Joseph Smith… I mean the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints! They might make you a fresh loaf of bread to welcome you to the neighborhood, or ask to help you move your heavy boxes into your home. You’d think those evil Mormons would key your car or something. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

@Misa_Susaki

14 күн бұрын

We feel the same way about you, lol. We feel scripture supports us.

I've been trying to introduce Mormons here in Malaysia to the Catholic Faith. Lots of Americans Mormons youths coming all the way here across the world to share their faith. Haven't got any other Catholic missionaries following the footsteps of St Francis Xavier though. Sadly, the few Malaysian converts are ex-Catholics (who famously don't know their Bible). Wouldn't it be great if Mormons converted to the Catholic Faith and gave the sleeping giant a boost in world evangelism? I think Mormons actually appreciate Apostolic Succession because they have a similar idea. I also think their idea of the priesthood of all believers is something we can improve. Also, was it Jason Evert who noted that the lowest divorce rates are among the Mormons? They have a very good system that every Sunday, they talk about how they can improve their roles in the family. Frustratingly though, when in discussions, they go back to the feeling in their heart as the measure of truth. Thanks Trent for this video as there is really not enough of these material to help Catholics talk to Mormons. I have it as part of our youth evangelism to just chat with them and learn how to share our own faith. Imagine if all Catholics to be confirmed tries to evangelise a Mormon. As Trent said, they are generally very nice people.

@HaleStorm49

3 жыл бұрын

There was an evangelical pastor who said something along the lines of "but if we tried to convert Mormons, what would we offer them?" Your point is similar to what occurred in the Scripture Trent brought up in John 10. He claimed that their own scriptures professed that we are gods. Christ wasn't using wordplay - He was preaching to a corrupt and apostate people - but even they understood what He was saying. Why they tried to stone Him he fell back on the works 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. Christ was saying that those who KNOW the Father will do His works. You don't have to belive the doctrine, but the works are a testament of the truth of the Gospel and stand as their own witness.

@bearistotle2820

3 жыл бұрын

@@HaleStorm49 What do you think Christ meant when he was referencing that verse from the psalms?

@allopez8563

3 жыл бұрын

You will have to do your part. Priests and worst bishops pf today are luke warm, modernists.

@tabandken8562

3 жыл бұрын

@feebeedee No they don't. But they have and recognize their own. If only they realize they were lied to by Joseph Smith and the Apostasy and came to know the REAL Truth.

@AllanKoayTC

3 жыл бұрын

i've been approached by Mormons countless times on the train. they are indeed very nice.

Thank you Trent Horn for your channel. I feel so ashamed to have fallen for the trap of mormonism. My children and I are converting to catholicism and grateful for God to have shown us the truth! That LDS is not of Him.

@empackmanmueller1725

3 жыл бұрын

@nicole Boehm I recommend scott hahns book lambs supper, and keith nester book on conversion to catholicism excellent book. My wife converted and read the books helped her with understanding mass, and catholic faith. Godbless you and your family. Welcome home...also look into st. Paul's center in stubenville they have excellent stuff for new catholics

@richlopez5896

Жыл бұрын

welcome back home. “The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?”- St. Cyprian of Carthage (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

@Scott23882

Жыл бұрын

@@richlopez5896 the Father is the one God 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV

Their heresy is... ..out of this world o___O

@bearistotle2820

3 жыл бұрын

*in CSI Miami style* YEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

@sterlingteall3462

3 жыл бұрын

maybe even out of this galaxy :D

@takmaps

3 жыл бұрын

😅

I was raised LDS, but I'm not any longer, and I had never actually heard of the Heavenly Mother. I had only come to know of her when I was a child I asked my Primary teacher whether there was one. They refer to God the father almost EXCLUSIVELY as Heavenly Father, so contrast with a heavenly mother is bound to be thought of at least eventually I think with their mode of reasoning, and the belief of all having been together in the preexistence, it's all centered on the picture of family. Ditching the idea of the preexistence, and coming to terms that I was a spontaneous creation of God at the moment of my physical conception was actually very difficult for me. It made me question whether or not I could even have a soul. Of course Im more knowledgeable about what the scriptures say about this, but it paints such a different picture. People outside of it thinks everyone inside is worshipping themselves because in a way they kinda are if they think they're gonna one day be like God. But everyone inside is actually desperately trying to hold onto the family of this life into the afterlife, and are convinced that the religion will recreate the godly picture of the preexistence before Satan came into the picture, except with our very own families instead. The picture is so alluring, and it sometimes depresses me that the picture just cannot be real, and with most of my other ex Mormon family going the Protestant has only added to my worries. But In the end, I must understand that God's grace, if I might receive it, is better than any picture Joseph Smith can paint. God's light is Just, Pure and Merciful. I thank God that none in my family after leaving the Church had permanently become an Atheist, and I know that they love the Lord the best they know how just as I am and so I pray for his mercy on all of us. It's still very difficult

The sorrowful Mormon teaching about the "Godhead" is that it undermines the majesty and Deity of God and actually exhibits and puts into practice and belief the very ORIGINAL sin that occurred in the Garden of Eden....that of pride and of putting ourselves in the place of God.

@owlobsidian6965

3 жыл бұрын

Very good point. Almost like the serpent saying accept these teachings and become gods.

@HaleStorm49

3 жыл бұрын

@@owlobsidian6965 It ignores the fact that Genesis says that Eve was seeking wisdom - and after the fall God confirmed that man is become “as one of us” knowing good from evil. God actually confirmed Satan's accusation instead of refuting it. You can't ignore these declarations from God in Genesis and still understand the purpose of the fall in the garden. Seeking wisdom and knowing good from evil are hardly "pride" or putting yourself in the place of God. Anna's criticism, like most on this page are couched in a misunderstanding of LDS doctrine, the Bible text, or both.

@annashepard6337

3 жыл бұрын

God created man to manifest His glory in a special way. He gave man an intellect and a will that he might know, praise, and love his Creator. 1. Eve disobeyed God's command. One may not seek a good through an act of evil or disobedience. This is the epitome of pride. 2. The serpent tempted Eve with twisted logic by lying and promising something he has no right or authority to offer; the knowledge of good and evil. As spoken by the Archangel, Michael, "Who is like God?!" . 3. Eve already lived in the presence of her Maker, who lovingly shared himself (light and TRUE knowledge) with her daily. The only further light and knowledge Eve received by listening to Satan, was to see the resulting great and all encompassing effects of her action......death. 4. Death is all that Lucifer; now Satan, has to offer. He always promises further light and knowledge. There is no light or knowledge present that makes it possible to trump that of an all knowing Creator. 5. Adam and Eve were removed from the very essence of everlasting life and the tree of life was guarded from being eaten, as a means to prevent them from living perpetually in the false pursuit of false light and false knowledge that would have damned them eternally to Hell. 6. Man, in his fallen state has pursued light and knowledge continually rather than submit to and TRUST God, like little children that we are. The happiness of heaven consists in the DIRECT vision, love, and enjoyment of God. Adam and Eve, in Eden (Paradise) enjoyed this direct vision and contact. Once fallen, their very natures changed and no longer possessed the supernatural help of God.

@HaleStorm49

3 жыл бұрын

@@annashepard6337 Why was the tree of knowledge placed in the Garden? Why was Satan permitted in the Garden? These were both decisions that God made, knowing what would happen. Why did he allow this to occur if we already had the direct vision and knowledge? He must have had a reason, no? I

@jeffreysmith7542

3 жыл бұрын

@@HaleStorm49 I was about to say something pretty close to what you said but you beat me to it. But, I would like to add the scripture reference Genesis 3:22 is where God the Father confirms that what Satin said was actually true. Satin did not say to Eve that she and Adam would become gods but rather that she and Adam would become AS GODS KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL. Genesis 3:5 And yet God himself later agreed that they did become as them knowing good and evil in verse 22.

It's equally amazing as it is creepy how this religion got off the ground and is what it is today

@thereccereport1172

3 жыл бұрын

I know right. Joseph Smith was a con artists and a highly corrupt business man.

@35TheDarkknight

3 жыл бұрын

@@thereccereport1172 freemasonry.bcy.ca/history/lds/founders.html Mormonism and Freemasonry Language Download PDF Watch Edit The relationship between Mormonism and Freemasonry began early in the life of Joseph Smith, founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, as his older brother Hyrum and possibly his father were Freemasons while the family lived near Palmyra, New York. In the late 1820s, the western New York region was swept with anti-Masonic fervor. Nevertheless, by the 1840s, Smith and several prominent Latter Day Saints had become Freemasons and founded a lodge in Nauvoo, Illinois, in March 1842. Soon after joining Freemasonry, Smith introduced a temple endowment ceremony including a number of symbolic elements that were very similar to those in Freemasonry. Smith remained a Freemason until his death; however, later leaders in the movement have distanced themselves from Freemasonry. In modern times, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), holds no position for or against the compatibility of Masonry with LDS Church doctrine.

@redimerfortitudo

3 жыл бұрын

Only in America.

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

@@thereccereport1172 "I know right. Joseph Smith was a con artists and a highly corrupt business man." No, he wasn't. He really believed he was a prophet chosen by God and lived his life accordingly until his martyrdom.

@computationaltheist7267

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldthompson9294 That does not mean that he was a prophet. I ha find it easier to believe that Muhammad was a prophet than that con man Joseph Smith.

As an ex Mormon who lived faithfully and devoutly, was endowed and sealed in the temple and having done much temple work over many many years for my relatives that have passed. I must implore all of my LDS Brothers and Sisters to open your hearts and minds and to dive deep into the unsound doctrine of this false church. Start with the "Book of Abraham" in the pearl of great price, it's nothing more than normal Egyptian burial papyrus from the book of the dead, JS fails miserably in his "translation". My Brothers and Sisters, God is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I AM WHO I AM. God is existence itself; all of creation is contingent on the the creator himself, God; he is not some exalted man of flesh and bone. Joseph Smith was taken to court a multitude of times way before founding the church for claiming to have magic stones that could find treasure convincing people to pay him to guide them to treasures that were never found, he was a conman... The "great apostasy" is a myth and to proclaim otherwise is to call Jesus a liar. Matthew 16:18. Jesus builds his Church on Peter and proclaims the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The Church was never lost.. this would make God a liar and we know God is not a liar. Look into the Church Fathers like, Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus of Lyons. Investigate the Eucharist along with the gospel of John. The Church was never lost, it is and has always been the Catholic Church. I am praying for you my friends. I love you all truly, and am praying that you have the strength for your journeying and investigating. It took me 5 years of prayer, reading the Bible, and investigating churches and history to renounce Mormonism and come to the One True Church. The same one He instituted! Thanks be to God; Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ.

I love how you keep a straight face talking about this.

@EricSmyth4Christ

Жыл бұрын

I’m LDS and even I laugh all the way through it

@Icanonlyimagn7891

Жыл бұрын

@@EricSmyth4Christ I am too Eric and laugh all the way through it. Thank you Trent for the comedy relief.😂👍🏻👍🏻

As a former Mormon turned agnostic, some of them are so nice I sure hope they get their own planet.

@EricSmyth4Christ

Жыл бұрын

You’re such a sweetie

@---zc4qt

Жыл бұрын

Being an agnostic, Mormon, or Roman Catholic is NOT the answer. I hope you will read the Bible and try to find truth that agrees with the Scriptures.

@Icanonlyimagn7891

Жыл бұрын

Blessed are the peacemakers.☀️💕

As a fairly uneducated Mormon returning to my faith, as most of my family is Mormon including my grandfather who is one of the wisest men I've known, I love your content. I'd love to see you continue delving into Mormonism.

@randalejetmagalit1198

2 жыл бұрын

Um, are you a Mormon now?

@dylanwilliams2202

Жыл бұрын

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination.

@Zer-cn4pc

Жыл бұрын

@@dylanwilliams2202 Cult

@dylanwilliams2202

Жыл бұрын

@@Zer-cn4pc lol thanks for adding nothing

@NatePewsAndQs

Жыл бұрын

​@dylanwilliams2202 as an ex Mormon who lived faithfully and devoutly, was endowed and sealed in the temple and having done much temple work over many many years for my relatives that have passed. I must implore you to open your heart and mind and dive into the unsound doctrine of this false church. Start with the "Book of Abraham" in the pearl of great price, it's nothing more than normal Egyptian burial papyrus from the book of the dead, JS fails miserably in his "translation". Brother, God is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I AM WHO I AM. God is existence itself; all of creation is contingent on the the creator himself, God; he is not some exalted man of flesh and bone. Joseph Smith was taken to court a multitude of times way before founding the church for claiming to have magic stones that could find treasure convincing ppl to pay him to guide them to treasures that were never found, he was a conman. The "great apostasy" is a myth and to proclaim otherwise is to call Jesus a liar. Matthew 16:18. Jesus builds his Church on Peter and proclaims the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The Church was never lost my brother.. this would make God a liar and we know God is not a liar. Look into the Church Fathers like, Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus of Lyons. Investigate the Eucharist along with the gospel of John. The Church was never lost, it is and has always been the Catholic Church. I am praying for you my friend. I love you truly, and am praying that you have the strength for your journey and investigation. It took me 5 years of prayer, reading the Bible, and investigating churches and history to renounce Mormonism and come to the One True Church. The same one he instituted! Thanks be to God; Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you for this video - from someone with a charismatic background 🙏

Very insightful video.

I was just reading about Mormons last night. What Providence!

@chrisvandermerwe7111

3 жыл бұрын

@Eucharist Angel "Then he opened their minds so they could understand the scriptures." I hope God blesses you with this.

@leonardobeneventi8836

3 жыл бұрын

@Eucharist Angel Catholics made your bible

@leonardobeneventi8836

3 жыл бұрын

@Eucharist Angel just because non-catholics deny the canon doesn’t make it invalid. All the 7 books were in the greek and Hebrew bible. The Church compiled holy scripture in the council of Rome.

@tabandken8562

3 жыл бұрын

@Eucharist Angel Why do you call yourself, "Eucharist Angel" if you don't believe? At least we have credibility on our side. Our faith has Apostolic Succession from the Apostles till today and the 73 book bible was the first bible and it continued to be a 73 book bible until Martin Luther moved some to the back. And those books stayed in the bible till about the 19th century.

@deusimperator

3 жыл бұрын

@Eucharist Angel What authority did the Protestants have to remove seven books out of the canon??? The Pharisees? That is what the Masoretic text IS. The Church has the authority because Christ gave the Church that authority to canonize the Bible... What authority did Christ give pastor Billy Bob or Pastor Cletus???

I'm sorry for our Mormons brothers... but their creed is ridicolous

@beewizerm8

3 жыл бұрын

They're not our brothers

@cinnamondan4984

3 жыл бұрын

There are some pretty good Mormon intellectuals out there with a deep appreciation of LDS theology...but yeah, from just watching this video you won’t get that. Still, Trent did a great job here.

@cinnamondan4984

3 жыл бұрын

@Prasanth Thomas I’m responding to Mario up there.

@cinnamondan4984

3 жыл бұрын

@Prasanth Thomas Good point

@markstenquist2315

Жыл бұрын

I'll take mine over yours.

Heyyyyy, a good day to be a Mormon fan of the channel lol

Joseph Smith: “I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6)

@strikevipermkII

3 жыл бұрын

This is literally what Paul was talking about.

@deusimperator

3 жыл бұрын

@@strikevipermkII Did St. Paul claim that Joseph Smith had more to boast than any man???

@strikevipermkII

3 жыл бұрын

@@deusimperator No, that we are saved by faith so that no man can boast. Ephesians 2:9

@deusimperator

3 жыл бұрын

@@strikevipermkII If you are not Catholic you have not responded by accepting the gift of faith. Faith is a gift that must be accepted to be actualized.

@strikevipermkII

3 жыл бұрын

@@deusimperator Baptized and Confirmed

Mormons absolutely believe this. My stepmom forced me to attend Mormon church since I was 8. I argued with her about going every Sunday but she would start crying and my (non member) dad would make me go. What really lost me was when they started teaching us this when we were around 16, like it was a secret that we were finally old enough to be trusted with. I stopped going to church after that.

I believe it was Brigham Young who said there were people living on the moon (who dressed like Quakers) and there were even people living on the sun.

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

So what? People in the past (and even most of us today) often believe things that are incorrect and hold to opinions that are later proven to be false. Brigham Young expressed an opinion (not a prophetic utterance) that was not all that uncommon during his time. Even those who were scientifically educated had views we now know are false. "William Herschel-the preeminent astronomer of his generation and the man to discover Uranus-was also firmly of the belief that the sun was inhabited.[2] One author wrote: Herschel was not a raving amateur. A gifted astronomer, he discovered Uranus, and was the first to realize that sunlight included infrared light as well as visible light. His sister, Caroline, became famous in her own right for discovering comets, so he did not lack for intelligent conversation. He just had his own theories. Herschel believed that life existed on every celestial body in the universe. He was aware that the sun people saw was too hot to support life. He just assumed there was something underneath that burning atmosphere. When he observed sunspots, he believed that they were openings in the atmosphere, or perhaps mountains, and that if people could get a close look at the planet beneath, they would be able to spot signs of life. Herschel was not alone in his beliefs - as more information on the sun turned up, astronomers speculated on how it would affect life on the surface of the sun, and what kind of life might survive in those environments." (FairMormon) Not only that, but biblical writers had scientifically incorrect views, as well. Does this somehow disqualify them from having received inspiration from God?

@davidjanbaz7728

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldthompson9294 Ancient literature views are far different than the views of JS or BY who claim God spoke to them directly: maybe you're gods are so undecided that they keep changing their minds and giving you're prophets different Revelation.

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 , nowhere did Brigham Young claim that God told him men were on the moon. Nor did Brigham Young often claim God spoke to him directly. Really, it seems that it is not possible for you to engage "Mormonism" honestly. Also, are you suggesting that the biblical writers never had immediate, "face to face" encounters with God?

@deusimperator

3 жыл бұрын

Yes BY did say that but so did Ellen G White when she entered a trance and was able to go visit Jupiter and Saturn... This was some of the many ideas which circulated in America at the time

@jayt1077

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldthompson9294 Why would God allow his prophet to suggest something so foolish to the faithful? And if it was just an opinion, why did Mormons defend it even decades later? In One-Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions, Mormon author Stephen W. Gibson writes: “At the present time, man has no scientific or revealed knowledge of whether or not there are inhabitants on the earth’s moon. The fact that a handful of astronauts didn’t see any inhabitants in the tiny area they viewed when they landed on the moon decades ago certainly gives no definitive information, any more than visitors to earth who might land in barren Death Valley would have any idea of the billions of inhabitants elsewhere.”

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 03:22 🌌 Mormons believe in the potential to become gods after death. 05:56 📜 Mormonism's foundation: Joseph Smith's vision and the Book of Mormon. 06:39 👼 God in Mormonism: Exalted human, previous mortal existence. 08:14 👫 The belief in becoming gods as a couple in a marriage. 09:38 🌍 Mormons' potential to have their own worlds, but not universally accepted. 12:44 🛡️ Monotheism vs. Mormon's potential henotheism. 14:08 📚 Catechism's reference to divinization, not becoming gods. 15:55 🙏 Understanding Mormonism's concept while affirming monotheism.

@jeanpommes

7 күн бұрын

The henotheism of LDS is reiterated in their temple ceremony, where they strangely identify Jesus’s proper name as “Jehovah” and their Heavenly Father’s proper name as “Elohim”. No idea where they get this from, as I’ve never seen Jesus referred to as Jehovah (YHWH) in scripture or tradition, nor have I seen any evidence that “Elohim” is more than just a title in the OT / ancient world. Perhaps this is based on the BoM, which confusingly identifies Jesus as both “the Father” as well as “the Son” (particularly clear in the original 1830 edition, which seems to be generally confused about how the Trinity works and yet also mixed up about unitarian alternatives.) In any case, what’s clear is that LDS doctrines do not address the core metaphysical question of existence, allowing instead for a “turtles all the way down” response. It’s enough (I guess) that their adherants acknowledge the creator god of this world (“Elohim” or “Heavenly Father”), and the heir god and Lord of this world (“Jehovah” or Jesus, the Son). Unclear what that says about their relationship to the future god (“Michael” or Adam) - presumably he’ll be promoted and will create his own world as “Elohim” and provide his own Son to save it?

Ephesians 2:8-9: For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works. So, no man may boast.

Can you do rebuttals using Saints Unscripted which is a popular Mormon KZread channel.

@churchofcheesenriceoflatte677

3 жыл бұрын

One of the most deceptive channels on KZread...

@cinnamondan4984

3 жыл бұрын

Saints Unscripted is pretty tame. You know Midnight Mormon or Kwaku...or Stone XVI. That stuff is a lot more hard core, as it were.

@cinnamondan4984

3 жыл бұрын

@@churchofcheesenriceoflatte677 Are you a Mormon Stories fan?

Funny how Mormons in the 1860s started at the same time as the Jehovas witness and most evangelical sects...

@35TheDarkknight

3 жыл бұрын

Mormons, seventh day Adventist and Jahovas started by freemasons. To divide christianity and keep them from reaching the Catholic Church

@RGTomoenage11

3 жыл бұрын

@@35TheDarkknight Yup, and they all base their theology in bashing Catholicism.. the fact that they started at the same time should raise a red flag....

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

"the fact that they started at the same time should raise a red flag...." Why should it raise a red flag? In my mind, it is very plausible that this time in history was just the perfect time for God to reveal Himself to His chosen prophet and restore His Church--that is in the time that many were searching for a true apostolic faith.

@RGTomoenage11

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldthompson9294 Non sense and what prophet are you talking about?? Thee self proclaimed prophet smith or helen white? Why would God wait 1860 years so restore his church? The church never failed and both of this self proclaimed prophet teachings are contrary to scripture and church tradition. The Holy Bible says Gods church will prevail against the gates of hell therefore it never failed and all you protestants have done is divide Christianity with man made churches... come on now, read the first page of the Book of Mormon...? Who are those ppl Joseph cites??? Nobody knows, there is no history about then other than Joseph’s hand.... get out of there and come home...

@billdestroyerofworlds

3 жыл бұрын

@@RGTomoenage11 Mormonism has plenty bashing the Catholic Church, but in all reality a lot of their doctrine comes as a reaction to Protestants. They bashed Protestants pretty hard too.

Glad I found this! My roommate invited Mormon missionaries over to discuss their faith, and I do not have time to do my own deep dive!😂

@Icanonlyimagn7891

Ай бұрын

Might want to visit with the missionaries instead of getting false, mis-representations from apostates and anti-Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint bashes. My husband was a rabid anti for years. Read the Book of Mormon to prove it wrong and had a wonderful experience. He ended up getting baptized a few weeks later. He said The Book of Mormon brought him closer to Christ than anything else he has ever encountered other than the Bible. Would you want to learn about the Lord Jesus Christ from the apostate Judas? Or from Peter, John or the other apostles who love Christ?

@cassiemae7834

Ай бұрын

@@Icanonlyimagn7891 we had missionaries to our house for multiple conversations, and, frankly, the Mormon views did not hold up to close scrutiny. Mormon theology concerning the character of God, the Trinity, the role of humans, and heaven does not hold up against the actual Bible. Also, the missionaries brought an Elder the second time and he was still unable to adequately answer my questions on theological and historical disputes.

3:29 Please link this booklets you advertised.

Interestingly enough is validity of the Mormon baptism in comparison to others. - A atheist can validly baptize anyone given the right formula. - A Muslim can validly baptize anyone given the right formula. - A Buddhist can do validly baptize anyone given the right formula. - Almost everyone can validly baptize anyone given the right formula, but a Mormon can’t. Since their understanding of God(s) is so vastly different to the point that their intention of the the baptism is different.

@HaleStorm49

3 жыл бұрын

It is interesting considering in the Bible this was not the case. Only certain individuals could baptize if they were given authority to do so.

@deusimperator

3 жыл бұрын

The person performing MUST have the valid intention. A Bhuddhist or Hindu can perform a valid baptism if he intends to do what the Catholic Church intends

@baoduong2203

3 жыл бұрын

@@deusimperator You’re correct. It is a matter of intention rather than a matter of faith for the person.

@Katholikos78

2 жыл бұрын

Correct. Mormonism is Tritheism and not Trinitarian Monotheism.

@donatist59

Жыл бұрын

As an ex-Mormon I ran into that when I joined the Episcopal Church. I had to be conditionally baptized in case the LDS baptism was bad.

Oh wow.. Mormonism is even more not Christian than I thought

@cjames9320

3 жыл бұрын

No it's not.

@klh768

3 жыл бұрын

Type banned Mormon cartoon into Youtubr search. There's this cartoon about All of their beliefs. I couldn't believe what I had just seen.

@jeffreysmith7542

3 жыл бұрын

@@klh768 As a member of the LDS church I can tell you I saw the cartoon and it was one of the most misleading anti Mormon garbage videos I have ever seen.

The context of Isaiah 44 and 43 is that He calls Himself a "Savior" and "Redeemer". That means He is focusing on Jesus Christ because those roles are unique to Jesus Christ, even among the Godhead. Jesus Christ will still be my God and only Savior when I am learning from Father to be like Him in The Celestial Kingdom.

The divine information interesting, like the Glory be to at the end the "world with out end." is a bad english translation and we have been saying it that way for how long?

As a Mormon, when people ask me 'do you get your own planet?' I laugh and tell them 'my own planet? Ha! Don't be ridiculous!' 'It's worlds without end'

@wfTitus

2 ай бұрын

I Lol'd 😂 Best response!

@MarcosSobreiro-oi3ti

2 ай бұрын

Politeíst!

@danielstark8356

2 ай бұрын

@MarcosSobreiro-oi3ti ***Polytheist But I'd say I'm more like a henotheist. When people think of "polytheist" they think of Greek or Norse patheons, and that's absolutely not anywhere close to an accurate representation of Mormon beliefs

If I got my own planet, I'd totally make it Middle Earth... Unless Tolkien already made his planet Middle Earth. Then I'd go visit his planet a lot and I'd do something else with mine, probably my own home-brew fantasy world.

@allopez8563

3 жыл бұрын

This is why humans shouldn't have that responsability.

@ReapingTheHarvest

3 жыл бұрын

That's scary. Then I looked at your avatar and got even more scared.

@joshuacooley1417

3 жыл бұрын

It's a long story.

@jeremysmith7176

3 жыл бұрын

Considering Tolkien was Catholic I don't think he would get a planet if the Mormons are right.

@adannanmezi3672

3 жыл бұрын

@@joshuacooley1417 please tell the story

12:49 That is a mystery which doesn't need solving.

Are religious institutions protected by copyright laws? I always wonder about that when I see LDS falsely advertising themselves as the "Church of JC". Ads like that must be confusing for folks especially in other countries.

@HaleStorm49

7 ай бұрын

Advertising in word or deed? By receiving instructions to build temples or send missionaries all over the world to preach the gospel to every nation and tongue? By living healthy service oriented lives while raising large church attending families? You need to be more specific about what you are referring to as false advertising.? Just so no one is confused.

@andrewferg8737

6 ай бұрын

@@HaleStorm49 "false advertising.?" --- Indeed. The space alien, non-divine polytheistic Jesus, get-your-own-planet, false gospel, polygamy cult, etc... makes for a good episode or two of Star Trek, but it is not the Gospel. Some innocent individuals unfamiliar with actual Christianity may confuse such LDS fictions with the actual Gospel.

@HaleStorm49

6 ай бұрын

@@andrewferg8737 whoosh

My oldest brother got suckered by the Mormons .

@jlewis8145

Жыл бұрын

Listen to Micah Wilder and his mother.

@HaleStorm49

7 ай бұрын

Sucked Into upgrading his life and relationship with God.? That everyone should be so lucky

@bobnordstrom5944

7 ай бұрын

Suckered into closing his mind and taking away his ability to look at the facts and realize that Joe Smith was a total fraud .

Mormons please come home to the Catholic Church

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

We love Catholics and much about the Catholic Church, but we are already members of Jesus Christ's true Church. Unfortunately, as much as I like Trent Horn and most of his other videos, this video does not accurately describe some of our doctrines.

@bearcow7964

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldthompson9294 Which parts do you take issue with?

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

@@bearcow7964, specifically, his caricature of LDS beliefs around divinization. Also, that he obviously does not engage or even acknowledge the more recent biblical scholarship around the discussion of what Jesus actually was referring to when he said, "Ye are gods," Actually, there is very little evidence in this video that he made any real attempt to present LDS doctrine sympathetically or that he has investigated what LDS scholars have written regarding the specific doctrines of my church Trent attacked.

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

@@EtanoS24, the Church does not teach a doctrine where we get our own planets. That may have been (or may be) what some individual Latter-day Saints have believed or believe, but it is not doctrine. I've never heard it ever stated as such from the pulpit of any General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter=day Saints in the over 20 years I have been a Latter Day Saint. If Trent wants to engage Church doctrine, he should engage what is actually taught by the Church as doctrine. If I come along and use what individual Catholics claim is Catholic doctrine, highlight that and make a caricature of it to further distort that doctrine, I would then be approaching your faith in a dishonest and disingenuous way. It is a lot more work to fully critique what Trent said in his video than I have time for now. But, I have long engaged anti-Mormons (those also who have claimed to once have been LDS), and I recognize in Trent presentation the distortions of our doctrines common among those who so often approach our faith dishonestly. I expected much better of Trent. He is certainly not going to win over any informed Latter-day Saint with this presentation. Quite the opposite, actually.

@davidjanbaz7728

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronaldthompson9294 lmbo! Where do you're gods live ! Do All previous gods of you're infinite regression live near the Star kolob ? Or only HF and HM. Where does Jesus hangout here or is He at the Right hand of the Father.

Psalm 82 calls us elohims. The idea is that we become Gods, but we don't partake in God's essence, things only to God like his omnipresence. I feel like maybe u need to revise this part Trent, I can see how a Mormon can respond convincingly to this.

@jawnatutorow

10 ай бұрын

Elohim in Hebrew can encompass angelic messengers, god(s), human judges and human kings. Which in context when it's said we are gods, it's the human definition.

The best summation of this religion that I have seen is the Mormon cartoon. You can look that up.

Curious question, in Philippines almost all or I think all mormon church has a basketball court. WHY?

@deusimperator

3 жыл бұрын

That is the way they lure kids.... In South America they go to the local pool or swimming hole and without telling the kids perform Mormon baptism on them dunking them in the water as if playing with them

@lonelyberg1808

3 жыл бұрын

@@deusimperator ahahah really ?

@lonelyberg1808

3 жыл бұрын

because they wanna play basketball ?

@markstenquist2315

Жыл бұрын

​@@deusimperatordang, this guy found out our grand plan... Baptizing in public swimming pools lol

Who would have believed him?? This is crazy stuff! I am usually more gracious about one's belief's...I just cannot understand how this got off the ground! And to think this was the religion of my teen idol...Donny Osmond!

@35TheDarkknight

3 жыл бұрын

Probably from support from freemason.

@tabandken8562

3 жыл бұрын

@@35TheDarkknight That is true. The religion is all Freemason.

@tabandken8562

3 жыл бұрын

I've posted the Mormon history as told by St. Alphonsus De Liguori who lived during that time.

@HaleStorm49

3 жыл бұрын

This question was discussed in Acts. Gamaliel (who instructed Paul) reminded the Pharisees that so called church leaders come and go, but if God as the head it cannot be overthrown. Here is is: Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; 35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. 36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. 37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. 40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. The existing Jewish leaders, which had been God’s chosen people for several thousand years, had tried everything (including martyring Christ) and had failed to stop the work of God. Gamaliel realized that the effort was futile and they should just let them fizzle out on their own over time. The Catholic Church had a 2000 year head start on the restored Church of Jesus Christ. Keep a close eye on both for the next 30 years while applying Gamaliels test.

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

"Who would have believed him??" Well, I do, if you're referring to Joseph Smith. But, after viewing this video, I'll be more careful about believing Trent. He talks about steel-manning others' positions and then mocks my faith by presenting a caricature of what my Church teaches. Disappointing.

I have only heard tiny bits of the differences. This was eye-opening. I never thought they were THIS far afield from Catholicism/Christianity. It makes the differences between Catholics and Protestants seem negligible. I understand now why their baptism doesn't count as a Christian baptism to Catholics.

@brucegillingham2793

9 ай бұрын

Mormon baptisms do not count for any christian denomination

@HaleStorm49

7 ай бұрын

​@@brucegillingham2793Mormons would be concerned if it did. They wouldn't claim to be Christ's true church on the Earth if it was just like the other 60k denominations. That wouldn't make any sense.

I thought that the Mormons accepted the whole Christian Bible as inspired, or am I mistaken? If they do accept it as inspired, then how in the world do they explain that verse that Trent quoted that said "There was no God before me, and shall be none after me"?

Yeah, Theosis is a very interesting idea. It will be as though we are omnipotent. However, truly it will be our closeness to God that will allow us to participate in His omnipotence. Good enough if you ask me.

@MrGoodwell

3 жыл бұрын

@@T_frog1 No, theosis isn't heresy. We have the concept in the western church. We call it divinization. That was Trent's point.

@vituzui9070

3 жыл бұрын

​@@T_frog1 It isn't a heresy. You are very misinformed. We have the same thing in Catholicism although it is generally less emphasized.

@MrGoodwell

3 жыл бұрын

@Prasanth Thomas Something can be both a doctrine and an interesting idea, but I take your point. Thank you.

@MrGoodwell

3 жыл бұрын

@Prasanth Thomas No problem. It's an important point to make. We won't be gods like many religions say. We will all be God. What a promise.

@beewizerm8

3 жыл бұрын

Well no - we won't "all be God". You need to be more specific in your language. Theosis is becoming like God not "being" God.

Adam and Eve wanted to have "Gods knowledge and be godlike" hence the fall. Mormons are my favorite non-Catholics. Every mormon I've met (over 20) has been without exception a kind, friendly, polite and well-mannered person. I know they are non-trinitarians and strictly speaking the Church doesn't recognize them as "christians".

@EricA-xd9fn

3 жыл бұрын

I have had this experience too, but there are also some very vile misogynists using the theology to justify their own patriarchy and dominance over women. But, yes...the majority I have met represent the best in humanity.

@tabandken8562

3 жыл бұрын

Don't let how they act in public fool you.

@HaleStorm49

3 жыл бұрын

Genesis says that Eve was seeking wisdom - and after the fall God confirmed that man is become “as one of us”. The fall was due to disobedience, not due to wisdom seeking. If we look at the process in reverse, was it possible for Adam and Eve to “become as one of us” without first participating in the fall? It doesn’t appear to be & the wisdom seeking is a primary ingredient in this process. Obedience, wisdom, good works. If I had to pick words to describe Jesus Christ these would be at the top. His church is designed to cultivate these traits in His disciples. Christ defended his doctrine in J. 10 by saying “ though ye believe me not, believe the works, that ye may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in him.” Powerful testament about the role of works in determining who is about the Father’s business. I would question why the church feels the need to label them Non Christians when its incongruent with what you have seen and experienced.

@SaintCharbelMiracleworker

3 жыл бұрын

@@HaleStorm49 Fall was due to hubris and disobedience.

@HaleStorm49

3 жыл бұрын

@@SaintCharbelMiracleworker No fall = No humanity. They would still be there.

Yes they will try to trick you Mormons 😇🙏🗝️💯 Catholic love your channel Trent🛐

I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I enjoy Trent's videos & I'm grateful for his powerful witness of Jesus Christ. May God continue to bless him in this ministry. That being said, many of the points he makes in this video make it clear that he has a surface level understanding of the doctrine & history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'm not offended by this, I'm honored he did a video on the subject. I'm not sure his interest level in having a dialogue with someone from said church, but I think it would be pleasant & exciting.

Before you rely too much on the "nice people" thing, do some archival digging about the Mountain Meadows Massacre and its aftermath, and continuing memorial desecrations.

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

This is a good place to start. www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2007/09/the-mountain-meadows-massacre?lang=eng

@brian5128

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t think that’s really fair that was an isolated situation and the Catholic Church has had many big stains left on it through history such as the many crusades which killed many people that didn’t deserve to die. And the sack of Constantinople but no one brings that up to prove that Catholics aren’t good people because everyone knows that’s not fair to Catholics of today

@brian5128

3 жыл бұрын

Or even Catholics during the middle ages its not fair to say that all Catholics were terrible because the crusaders

@williamjones6971

3 жыл бұрын

@@brian5128 Mormon bloodlust is baked into its origins. "Second Mohammed" "Blood atonement" The two things suppressing that malevolence is numerical inferiority and impressive beat downs, several times by the US Army. The roots of mormonism are diabolical. The fruit follows.

@ronaldthompson9294

3 жыл бұрын

@@williamjones6971, this is not at all true. You sound like someone who has not read any true history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and are just repeating the ahistorical tripe you've gleaned from others hostile to the sacred faith I hold to.

I often think that the average Mormon is a better person than the average weekly Mass goer in the US. I cannot be Mormon because I cannot claim to believe that stuff, but I can’t feel superior to them at all.

I would love to see the devout Mormon commenters on this video debate our devout SDA commenters Yuan and Tony lol

You have no links in your description.

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) I think this summary isn't too bad. Pretty respectful. Personally, I find the doctrine of becoming like God to be beautiful. The question really is, however, is it true? If it's false - it's blatant heresy, outright blasphemy, and a case of wishful thinking gone awfully wrong. If it's true, however, it's sure a wonderful doctrine that we are literally children of God and can become like him and our Heavenly Mother. So, we have to ask ourselves, when the bible calls us 'children of God' and God our 'Heavenly Father' - does it mean this figuratively or literally? When we pray to Heavenly Father, do we use that title figuratively or literally? I believe it is true and that every person I meet is a potential God or Goddess. It inspires me (when I'm not being stupid) to treat them as such. It also makes me grateful for Jesus Christ who not only saved us from sin but saved us FOR becoming like he is. I hope that makes sense and thanks again for doing a pretty good job, Trent, and minimizing the jabs. :) A summary from a member's perspective: kzread.info/dash/bejne/oaOarrlrldjUd9I.html Also, I did this long take on it for my kids, if you're interested and are a glutton for punishment: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nneius6veNW6g9Y.html

@AjaxNixon

3 жыл бұрын

Saints are gods, but there can only be one God who is actus purus, we can know this from kindergarten philosophy.

@toducate

3 жыл бұрын

@@AjaxNixon thanks for the reply. Why do you say there can only be one God, based on philosophy?

@AjaxNixon

3 жыл бұрын

@@toducate God by definition is perfect and Being itself. If there are multiple Gods, there must be a distinction between them, as there is a distinction between you and me which makes us unique humans. Since God by definition is perfect, any way in which another 'God' differs is a lack of perfection, or Being, which makes them not God. If one were to try to point to multiple beings as God, and say they are both absolutely perfect, then there would be nothing different about them and they would infact be identical, and therefore one.

@toducate

3 жыл бұрын

@@AjaxNixon that seems to me to be assuming a lot. That’s extrapolating a lot of meaning out of one word. You are assuming we know exactly what is meant by perfect, in Hebrew and Greek no less. You’re asking imperfect language to describe something other worldly. Language is hardly up for the task. Us mortals can hardly even explain what the Holy Ghost feels like, let alone using one word to decipher the character of God. So using it to find a supposed inescapable “if this, than that” absolute is asking more of language than it’s capable, IMHO. Essentially, you’re reading way too much into the word “perfect”, perhaps.

@AjaxNixon

3 жыл бұрын

@@toducate I'm operating under the definition of perfection, we need not know exactly how to quantify perfection, only that God by definition is perfect. This is all that has to be assumed. I don't pretend to know exactly what God is like. Perfection can be established as a necessary quality of God because God by definition is Being itself, That who Is, and fullness of Being is just a synonym of perfection.

All these past prophet must be gods by now. Joseph Smith. Brigham Young now gods of their own planet having thousand of spiritual children. Wow.

@djadams7795

Жыл бұрын

This video is bullshit

@eireannemerald1382

Жыл бұрын

@@djadams7795 No it’s not. Mormons hate the truth.

@eireannemerald1382

Жыл бұрын

🤦🏻‍♀😂 And all of their celestial spirit children must be celebrating!

@carlostrevino1088

Жыл бұрын

@@eireannemerald1382 probably so, if it’s a reality or not if it’s just a hoax.🤣👁️

@magic00squirrel

5 ай бұрын

I'm a currently questioning Mormon, however I understand the doctrine very well and I think I can help to clarify this. The ascension to Godhood as described in Doctrine in Covenants and implied in some verses of the Bible does not occur until after final judgement at the end of millennium. This is described in Revelation. Doctrine and Covenants speaks of spirit prison and spirit paradise, which is a belief corroborated by Peter 3 and 4. This is a place where spirits go after they die to dwell before they are resurrected at the beginning of the millennium, or the end of millennium, depending on if they were righteous or not (Revelation 20). According to LDS doctrine, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and all other righteous people, including non-mormons are currently residing in spirit paradise where they are tasked with teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to those in spirit prison, along with Jesus Christ himself (Peter 3 and 4). It is important to note that spirit prison is not a place of punishment, but rather it is a place for unrighteous spirits where they can sin no more.

Sprinkling isn't actually biblical baptism. Baptism means immersion. John the Baptist was John the immerser. Very good talk overall, thank you.

Given, most average birth to death Mormons have never heard the true gospel through no fault of their own, do not know the true Christ and his Church, yet they are God fearing family oriented people who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience. Not speaking for the Mormon leadership and those who might or should know better.

It is hard to believe that anybody actually believes this nonsense.

Come on man, both mormons and catholics are both despised by protestants, as your awesome rebuttals to Mike Winger has shown, we should be best friends here, our leaders certainly like each other. Plus, aside from the obvious points, our theology is actually pretty similar to yours on just about all the points you disagree with protestants on. For example, our views on salvation our near identical. I notice you also made some mistakes in your video, I'll point them out to you just so we're not accidentally spreading misinformation: 1:50 We could say the same about you, you're not LDS, so you have to be missing out on something. You don't even have a valid baptism in our eyes. Although, I should probably give you a break on this point, as you're not really using it as point to debate against mormonism, just talking from your own perspective. 3:00 This I will grant you, we don't believe in the trinity, instead we have a concept called the Godhead, which if were to vastly oversimplify is the idea that God is three beings in one person, instead of three persons in one being. I don't think that's a vastly different view. We still believe that Jesus is God, and that they are still 3 in 1, unlike many other sects. And I think this is a valid interpretation of the Bible that someone unfamiliar with Christian orthodoxy could easily arrive at upon reading it. So yes, it's different but it's not any more outlandish than how we regard your view of the trinity to be. 3:15 the whole "get your own planet" thing is an pop culture extrapolation of our doctrine of theosis, often used for jokes. It very well may be true, but it's never explicitly stated anywhere. Basically, some really righteous people will get the chance to become full fledged gods. I could go into more detail because I know that sounds heretical at face value, but I'm trying to keep this precise. 3:50 Just to clarify, the first vision happened in 1820 when Joseph was 14, and the Angel Moroni appeared to him 3 years later when Joseph was 17. Joseph didn't actually receive the plates from Moroni until 4 years after that when Joseph was 21. 4:15 This was in no way a popular story at the time, in fact Joseph was routinely mocked for how ridiculous the notion was. 4:30 The idea that Joseph plagiarized from View of the Hebrews has been soundly debunked to the point that the LDS church has published it alongside the Book of Mormon to show just how dissimilar they are. View of the Hebrews was published years after Joseph first saw the angel Moroni and had been telling stories of Israelites in the Americas. So Joseph already "thought up" all the ideas he had supposedly plagiarized. Plus, Joseph lived in the backwoods and no copy of the book would have been available to him. Even his wife said "Joseph had no book to refer to, and if he did, he could not have concealed it from me." And it's well documented that Joseph was borderline illiterate and no no interest in reading anyway. 4:50 The 116 pages (the book of Lehi) were not merely lost but stolen, and they were altered so that if Joseph did reproduce it word for word, it would still contradict the altered original version. Also, the books of Nephi - words of Mormon (7 books total) Are not translated from a different set of plates, it was just a different account, they way the gospels are different accounts of the same events. And it was translated at the very end of the Book of Mormon. After they lost the book of Lehi, they picked up where they left off with the book of Mosiah. It wasn't until over 400 pages of translation later that Joseph returned to reproduce the events in the lost pages. Meaning that the rest of the Book of Mormon had to be a coherent continuation of the lost pages (that Martin Harris and Emma Smith remembered, but Joseph didn't have available for reference) And then after 400 pages of extra story points clogging up his memory, Joseph then had to reproduce 7 books that could be coherently tacked onto the beginning of the book, without Martin Harris or Emma sounding the alarm of contradiction. And all this while "reading" the book aloud while blindfolded. It is not possible for anyone to do that, illiterate farmboy or ingenious scholar. 6:00 There's a lot of unknowns in this area of our theology, but yes, as far as we know, God is an exalted man. (Potentially not even human, just man.) Jesus is certainly an exalted man as we see his ascension in the New Testament. Notice, before his resurrection he has a body of flesh and blood, and after he describes himself to Thomas as having flesh and bone. If you read the bible, the terms flesh and blood/bone when used doctrinally and not in a colloquial sense, always maintain the distinction that blood is for mortals, and that resurrected/unfallen men have flesh and bones. This is seen with Adam, Jesus, etc. and our theology is the only one to bring attention to what is a very clear distinction once you know to look for it. There are also many scriptures and quotes from the early church fathers that back our view of theosis. One such example is Psalms 82:6, which Jesus Himself quoted to the Pharisees to support his own claim to divinity. For info on this and other doctrines we share with the early church, but Catholics don't, see these videos: kzread.info/dash/bejne/aaaKmMmOmdOopZM.html kzread.info/dash/bejne/gICssNOngJrQZ7A.html 8:20 I haven't heard the term henotheism before. I typically use the term monolatry, but thanks for not misrepresenting us. And thank you for pointing out that the early Israelites also held this view. I would note that the view was likely still widely held in the time of Jeremiah, (not too far of from Isaiah) which is when the Book of Mormon starts. And that the people who compiled the Bible and other early texts, being staunch monotheists, likely compiled and composed the original records in a way that removed references and legitimacy to the view, forcing us to read between the lines to recognize its presence in this text. 10:25 no offense taken, you do a better job than most at representing our beliefs. 11:10 We think that those attributes are communicable, and the early church fathers as well as the bible seem to think so as well. I already mentioned Psalms 82:6, but there's also the scripture from Romans where it says we will be joint-heirs of Christ. And also it says that we will be seated at the right hand of the Father, which is also where Jesus is seated. It's pretty clear that we may receive the same eternal reward as Jesus has received. It says often that Christ is subordinate to the Father, but it never says in these passages describing our eternal reward that we will be subordinate to Jesus. It says we are joint-heirs with Christ, not deputy heirs to Christ. That we are seated at the right hand of the Father, not off to side at the right of Jesus, and therefore. This is not to say that Jesus isn't God or greater than we are, He certainly is far greater than us, but that does not mean that we are excluded from the exaltation that Christ has received. 12:30 It's not that every thing exists for no reason, we just do not yet know the reason as we don't understand that part of the story very well yet because it's unnecessary for our mortal journey to know more than we do at the moment, maybe more details will be revealed in the future, who knows. The early church also did not seem to believe in creation ex nihilo. And just because things don't seem to make sense to our mortal minds, doesn't mean it isn't true. As the popular atheist argument goes, "If it doesn't make sense for the universe to have existed forever for no reason, then can't we say the same of God existing forever for no reason? Why can't the universe be the first uncaused cause instead of God?" 12:55 Oh, you do mention psalms and John, kudos to you. However, if we take your interpretation, then Jesus didn't actually defend Himself to the Pharisees. The Pharisees held the position you do. If Jesus's response was, "Well hold on, why can't I be Elohim in the sense that I'm a corrupt human judge? Come on guys, I'm not literally saying that I'm God." Then the Pharisees would just respond, "You're absolutely right, you're a corrupt human making yourself out to be God, and in line with our beliefs, we're going to stone you for it." You see how the scripture doesn't work in that context? and if it's supposed to be a rebuke of certain people or angels, then what about the last part where it says, "And *ALL* of you are children of the most High," so the Psalm is saying, "You know all those corrupt judges you shouldn't be worshipping? You were right, they actually are the children of the most high, nothing wrong there." How does that make any sense? You tailored the interpretation of one word to fit your view, when the intended use is clear. That's like me saying that the phrase, "I went to the bank of the river to drink," actually means that I went to go take out a loan. 15:10 Athanasius could also just be drawing a distinction between god as a state or occupation, and God the name we use to refer to Heavenly Father and Jesus. So we will not become God, but we will become gods, and have the same job as God off doing our own thing not interfering with God's planets and his domain where there is only one ruler.

@toducate

3 жыл бұрын

Well done! Nice point by point clarification.

@KnuttyEntertainment

3 жыл бұрын

@@toducate Thank you, nice to know I didn't go through the effort for nothing.

what about united Pentecostals? they do not believe in the trinity. they believe in the 'oneness' theory. are they Christian. and are self-proclaimed 'born again Christians' Christian? also, can you do a video on islam

@davidstrelec610

3 жыл бұрын

They’re modalists

It’s very interesting how Protestant, Catholics, Mormons LDS. Have quite a few similarities, but some big differences also. But what I’m most amazed about his how each one of them more often than not misrepresent which each one are. Protestants claim things that are not in the scriptures, the Catholics have beliefs and practices that are not in the Scriptures. And the Latter-day Saints have practices and beliefs that are not in the Scriptures. And yet they all claim to be the correct gospel!

@veritassaecula7910

Жыл бұрын

The Scriptures are not a "How To" manual on how to be a Christian. The Gospels tell the story of Christ's life, death and resurrection. The rest of the New Testament Scriptures (with the exception of the book of Revelations) address different issues that came up. But there is NOTHING in Catholic beliefs or practices that are contrary to Scripture. All of the alleged contradictions are from Protestant interpretation of what the Scriptures mean. Then they compare their interpretation of Scripture to Catholic beliefs and practices and conclude that there are contradictions. You have to go back to the writings of the Early Church Fathers. These were the men who were taught by the Apostles or their successors. You will find that they had an ordained hierarchical priesthood of bishop, priest and deacon. They had 7 Sacraments. They baptized infants. They believed that Christ was truly present in the Eucharist. They were very Catholic Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of the Apostle John. He was ordained by the Apostle Peter to the priesthood. Peter appointed him bishop of Antioch. In 107 AD Ignatius wrote "Wherever the bishop is, there let the people be; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" Also, you compare Protestant, Catholic and Mormon, as if you were none of them. That would mean you're Eastern Orthodox, a non-Christian believer in God or an atheist. Christians fall under 3 different categories: Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Protestant. If you're not Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, then by default, if you call yourself a Christian, you're a Protestant no matter which church you belong to. The Protestant Baptist church denies that they are Protestant, but in reality, they ARE Protestant.

@Forester-

Жыл бұрын

Yes everyone who doesn't agree with your interpretation of the Bible is so foolish as to be easily duped to believe explicitly unbiblical practices and obviously never reads the Bible for themselves. The hubris on display would be unbelievable if I didn't see it so often.

Well they have their own 'paradise' on earth, shouldn't be a problem to have own planet in 'heaven'.

Pardon any mis-spellings!

I'm currently a young man practicing Mormonism and I have some doubts about the truthfulness of Joseph Smith's prophecies and the LDS church as the true church of God. However, I find it very difficult to reconcile whether or not God has a physical body. The Bible states that we are made in the image of God, which implies that God has an image. It also says that he has a dwelling place, which also implies that he has a physical body and exists in a physical place. Maybe not physical in the same way that we would think of it, but physical nonetheless. Also we know from the Bible that Jesus created the heavens and the Earth, making him God, and yet he currently lives in a glorified, resurrected physical body. This means that not only is it possible for God, or more specifically Father to have a physical body, to me it seems very likely.

@kenziek6707

5 ай бұрын

The bible also states nobody can look at god and live and that God is spirit. Likeness doesnt mean copy

@beew1018

4 ай бұрын

If you believe that God is all powerful, all eternal, and greater than our capabilities then why would he need to be bound to any kind of physical body?

@kenziek6707

4 ай бұрын

@@beew1018Mormons need it for the physical sex it taught was between god and mary.

@Dylan_Devine

28 күн бұрын

In John 4:24, Christ says that God is Spirit; and in Luke 24:9, He says that Spirit doesn't have flesh or bones.

@KathyStrickland-nh9vx

4 күн бұрын

It also says Adam walked and talked with God but it doesn't mean literally. You have to study and not just accept what you're spoon fed by others that have been done the same way. The Bible is the only and final word of God. Nothing has to be added to it, certainly not something a 14 year old boy dreamed up. Everything can be debunked by the Bible.

Just post the podcasts to your KZread channel

3 Hail Marys for you 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻 that this channel may be for the Lord's work ✝️📿🙏🏻

Your understanding of the 116 list transcript of the book of Lehi is incorrect. Joseph Smith was commanded not to translate because the original would be altered by those who would discredit the translation. Not because it would have to be translated from another set of plates. The lost transcript has never surfaced.

Question - IF GOD is human then WHO is the GOD who created him and by extension everything else,…

@HIMYMTR

Жыл бұрын

That's why God is not human

Amazing how Mormon theology changes with the wind. When US. Congress refused to allow Utah statehood, due to polygamy & pedophilia .God came to the Mormon church and told them to give up multiple wives & sex with children... In1978, Jessie Jackson led a planned Salt Lake City protest of Blacks non admission to the priesthood & the temple. 100,000 Black men were organizing a protest in Utah of racist Mormon church teachings; Then, that same year, God then came to the Mormon church and told them black people were now okay. For 180 years, Mormon church taught hateful things towards Gays. Now in 2023, after bad press, God has told the Mormon church to back off the condemnation of Gays...Interesting timing of God's revelations & heat the Mormon Church was feeling.

Across the Pacific. I am nearly sure Martin Harris just a farmer. The wife oh Harris hid or destroyed the missing pages.

So do Mormons deny the Kalam cosmological argument?

The LDS faith has grown into something more like an Evangelical Christian faith. I have known LDS people (generally, former Protestants) who essentially continued to worship as Protestants. What attracted them to the LDS Church was the human values and family-based worship. I had a good friend who was a Morman, who passed away. I went to her funeral service with several other folks from the company (several of whom were also Catholics). At the end of the service, almost reflexively, we made the Sign of the Cross. I imagine people were thinking, "Gentiles!" I think for what the LDS Church lacks in dogma, it has in faith and values. The LDS Church does seem to have a (bastardized) version of what the Orthodox call "Theotis." They also have (bastardized) versions of Catholic, Jewish and Islamic ideas. Joseph Smith cast a wide ney for an uneducated fam boy from Western NYS!,

@HaleStorm49

7 ай бұрын

The Orthodox have a bastardized version of Theosis in it's original form. They can't tell you where the human nature ends and where the divine nature starts. They can't explain how it works or how they know that despite being our Father.... That He is a different species.

I call dibs on Rigel IV.

who is angel moroni in mormon..?

@KathyStrickland-nh9vx

4 күн бұрын

He was once a man and the father of Mormon, another man. But the Bible says that angels can't be men and vise versa.

yes they get their own planet ..just my luck to get Venus or Jupiter.(previous gods btw)

8:30 early israelites were not henotheists, but monarchial monotheists, which doesn’t contradict todays christianity.

It's a very interesting religion with a very developed, intellectual theology. But my background in Mormonism always left me with the feeling that there wasn't much Christ in it. It's more God-centric with an emphasis on commandments, a little Old Testament honestly. Christ is more like a perfect big brother showing us the way. The crucifixion is heavily de-emphasized and the Bible is rarely used in comparison to the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. After becoming a Catholic Christian myself, I can say that it's halfway fair (but not completely) to say Mormons are not Christians.

@HaleStorm49

7 ай бұрын

If you were judging the churches simply on the fruits the produce... Which one would you join based on which ones members were behaving the way Christ would demand? Would Mormons still not be Christians? Where would they rank on the actually Christian scale and who is #1?

@magic00squirrel

5 ай бұрын

As a questioning Mormon I agree that we do not study the Bible as much as we should. I know that the LDS church says that the Bible is missing parts of the gospel, however I find that nearly every single Mormon belief can be corroborated by verses in the Bible. I also wish that we would study Christian history instead of just LDS church history.

@HaleStorm49

5 ай бұрын

@@magic00squirrel two things: Did you do your Come Follow Me in 2023 and 2022? That's a two year deep dive through the Old and New Testament in weekly chunks. I know people who spend 6-8 hours per week on each lesson. Podcasts, study guides, prayerful reviews of the scriptures weekly. I'm not sure what you mean by "we" don't study the Bible enough but often people use "we" instead of "I". Statistically LDS Church members are more familiar with the Bible than other denominations but I agree all of them should be far higher than reported. #2) One of the primary plain and precious truths lost from the Bible is covenant membership. It's the reason people today think they don't need to go to church, that they don't understand exaltation, or works, or temples, or priesthood ordinances, etc. You are correct that all those things are found in the old and New Testament...yet members of the LDS church are labeled Non Christian for practicing all of them consistently rather than treating them as a buffet to pick and choose from. This is primarily due to modern evangelicalism's lack of understanding of the requirements and blessings of covenant membership in the church. Like you I am very doubtful and skeptical by nature, knowing that the first person people lie to is themselves.

Do priests who violate the Innocent and young have their own heaven?

7:20. "Shoot out" makes it sound like Joseph was challenged and accepted a battle. He surrended for a trial based on fraudulent charges. He was in jail when he was attacked by a very large group of people. He had 1 or 2 guns. That isn't much of a shoot out.

@aaronmueller5802

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, Smith did shoot and wound three people. They shot at him, he shot at them. That's the definition of a shoot out.

@Hamann9631

11 ай бұрын

@violetsplace524 True prophets of God frequently end up dead in hideous ways. Joseph Smith wasn't the first true prophet of God murdered.

@Hamann9631

11 ай бұрын

@violetsplace524 Of course, your description of an unnamed person has nothing to do with Joseph Smith Junior. Joseph Smith Junior was a prophet used by Jesus to get us the truth. Joseph Smith never claimed to be anything more than a prophet of God. Joseph Smith taught us that Jesus Christ is our Savior, Redeemer, Messiah, Christ, Sacrifice, part of the Godhead, Jehovah, etc. So, who tried to take Jesus Christ's place?

@Hamann9631

11 ай бұрын

@violetsplace524 Wow. You proved yourself to be uneducated or liar. It seems you have an irrational hatred of several groups and tried to use their names in a sentence together, whether it made sense or not. Your comment is the first time I've seem "Mohammed" and "gnosticism" put together. Gnosticism is a christian belief. Mohammed fits the definition of anti-Christ given in John's epistles. The gnostics were around about 2000 years ago. That doesn't match up with the time frame of Joseph Smith. In The Book of Mormon is says, "And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people." The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes The Bible. In that book of our scripture Jesus responded to antagonists with the statement, "Before Abraham was, I AM." If you didn't have the change to get educated, you're welcome. Go to churchofjesuschrist.org to learn more so you don't give me inaccurate information. If you have had the chance to know the truth; and thus were lying, I call you to repentance. Exodus 20 has the Lord's opinion about lying.

Yes

I asked Mormons that same question how do we know that the God of this world this universe is really God and not just some Mormon from some other world that died and got their own Planet how do we know that this is the real world the original Earth and he didn't really have an answer for me that

Mormonism=purgatory=immaculate conception=marian apparitions = assumption of Mary (but an angel of light appeared so it must be true)

Where in Scriptures elohim refers to human judges? Clear references please.

I've got a feeling that the nearly two thousand year old fruitless, gnarly tree and branches of traditional Christianity is due to be hewn down and cast into the fire. It has forty five thousand different Gods and Gospels, but no truth.

Hey, it's interesting you point out that someone who had received an invalid baptism wasn't actually baptized at all, thus you're not actually "re-baptizing" when you baptize them. That's actually exactly the same argument historical Baptists (frequently called Anabaptists) would make concerning infant baptism, that it wasn't a baptism at all. But we got stuck with the moniker of re-baptizer since Catholics are the ones that named us that because they still considered the infant baptism valid. So yeah, us Baptists aren't actually re-baptizing someone who had received an invalid infant baptism. Although admittedly some Baptist churches _will_ re-baptize someone whose baptism we recognize as valid, but who is just from a different denomination.

@aaronmueller5802

2 жыл бұрын

But if the infant baptism was valid, then they are rebaptizing them

@dominusalicorn3684

2 жыл бұрын

@@aaronmueller5802 correct, but that's like saying if a voided check is valid, then you can cash it.

Mormons do community the way we should.

@lingding-

Жыл бұрын

True. As someone who has a Mormon family, you may not believe in their faith but you can’t deny they put family and community above everything else.

@HaleStorm49

7 ай бұрын

True. It appears that the results cannot be replicated absent the theology. Food for thought.

planets, mansions, tacky gold and jewel cities, Christians certainly do think that they need things in their heavens.

@annakimborahpa

3 жыл бұрын

"In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?" (from the Last Supper discourse, Gospel of John 14:2)

@velkyn1

3 жыл бұрын

@@annakimborahpa yep, that's where I got the mansions bit. Good ol' KJV "2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." and then this rather silly idea "10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass." Revelation 21

@annakimborahpa

3 жыл бұрын

@@velkyn1 "and then this rather silly idea..." In comment, may I quote Senior Base Officer Ramsey speaking to Lieutenant Hendley near the end of the 1963 film The Great Escape: "It depends on your point of view."

PS Trying to learn about and understand the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS from one of its defectors, is like interviewing Judas to learn about Jesus Christ. 😉

4:10 "called Reformed Egyptian"?! No, it was reformed reformed Egyptian. It would make sense to say "called ____" if it was something which didn't exist or didn't have evidence. Egypt really existed. I wouldn't complain at all if you say, "Called Nephites." because the name Nephites is only in The Book of Mormon and those who quote it. Nephites buildings and artifacts have been found but don't have Nephites written on them in a language we understand.

Regarding Henotheism and Psalm 82 First let me begin by making this important distinction. We generally recognize three classes of spirit beings. God, Angels, and disembodied human beings (ghosts/ the dead). Angels are then further divided into Angels and demons (fallen angels). This terminology and simplified hierarchy is a development and it works fine, but it is important to realize, for the purpose of understanding the bible, that the bible and particularly the OT does not use these same terms in the same ways. For example, in the Bible the term "angel" in both Greek and Hebrew, means messenger. It is important to realize that this is a job description, not a type of being. Angels are specifically those heavenly beings that carry messages for God, generally to his people. This is why we have the confusing state where of the 9 choirs of Angels, only one is actually called "Angels". In this strict sense, Seraphim and Cherubim are not "Angels". Their primary function is not to carry messages. They are celestial beings, but not strictly speaking "angels". In the OT there are a variety of terms used to refer to heavenly beings. Some of those terms are specific, "Seraphim" and "Cherubim" for example other terms are more general. Elohim is a more general term. Elohim is used to refer to God, to pagan gods, to other heavenly beings who are in God's heavenly royal court, and even, in one case, to a human ghost. The one common thread for all uses of elohim, is that it refers to beings who reside in the spirit world. The example where it is used to refer to a human is when Samuel's soul is called up from the realm of the dead by the witch of Endor. She says that she sees "an elohim coming up out of the earth". So in this broad sense, in the OT, any spirit being could be referred to as a god (elohim). Now, lets define henotheism more clearly. Henotheism technically refers to the notion that all gods are of the same divine essence. The term was born to describe the neo-platonic era when old polytheism was being reimagined in light of neo-platonic influence with the idea of "The One". In this environment it was not uncommon for different groups to take the view that all the polytheistic gods were really aspects of one God or one Divine Essence. In this sense, Israelite theology was clearly never Henotheistic. This version of Henotheism was born out of the age of the Gnostics and the Neo-platonists. However, the term Henotheism also began to be used for the case where tribes or families picked out one god of a pantheon and worshipped only that one god. This was actually common in Canaan. There was an overall Canaanite pantheon headed by the God El (where the word elohim comes from) and his wife/consort Asherah. They had seventy sons who formed the second tier of the pantheon, then there was a third tier of crafstman and artisan deities who were less powerful and less important. It was not uncommon for various Canaanite tribes to worship only one of the pantheon, like Chemosh, while still acknowledging that the rest of the pantheon existed. This kind of Henotheism did not postulate that the god worshiped (like Chemosh) was ontologically different than the other gods. They were all of the same family and of the same type of being. All were gods, much like we are all men, even though some of us are smarter, stronger, or better men than other men. This is generally the type of henotheism that is alleged against Israel by the scholars. The usual scholarly image presented is that the Israelites emerged from a polytheistic culture, first developed into the kind of Henotheism described above, and then eventually developed into Monotheism where they no longer believed the other gods even existed. I don't think this version of things is correct on either side. In other words, the Henotheism of the Israelites never really existed, and the Monotheism didn't consist in denying the actual existence of other gods. Israelite theology, right from the beginning, makes a distinction of type between Yahweh and the other gods, not just a distinction in degree. They did not think that Yahweh was merely the strongest, wisest, or best of the gods. They recognized that he was of a entirely different essence or type of being than the other gods. The term that has been used to describe this is that early Israelite theology shows Yahweh as 'species unique'. He is not like other gods, and other gods are not Gods in the same way that Yahweh is God. The Canaanites had some tendencies towards Henotheism, the Israelites did not. It is true, however, that the Israelite cosmology of heaven was very similar to the Canaanite pantheon. The Canaanites had El and Asherah at the top, then the 70 sons of El, then the third tier of the lesser deities. The Israelites had Yahweh/Elohim with no consort/wife (because there are no other beings like him). They then had a divine council (a heavenly royal court) of 70 sons of Elohim, and then the third tier of all the other celestial beings that we would call angels. In the Canaanite pantheon El had a viceregent who most of us know as Baal. Baal eventually takes over the pantheon and supplants El. In the Israelite, most scholars would likely argue that there was no clear viceregent, and to a certain extent that's true. However, there was a second figure who does kind of fit this role. In the OT he is most clearly displayed in Daniel chapter 7. In this vision Daniel sees the royal court of Heaven assembled. Thrones are set up for the members of the Divine Council. The Ancient of Days (God) comes in and takes his seat among the council. But then another figure shows up. The Son of Man comes into the council and he is afforded divine honors equal to those of God himself. This passage caused a great deal of speculation and consternation in second temple Judaism. There was much writing about who this Son of Man could possibly be. It is important to note that the phrase "Son of Man" denotes a human being. Thus the implication is that there is (or would be) a human being who would be equal with God. So, in Israelite theology Yahweh was unique. They recognized that there were other gods in the sense that there were exalted celestial beings who either were, or had once been, part of Yahweh's heavenly court. However, those gods or divine beings were not of the same type as Yahweh. They were called his sons, but only in the metaphorical sense that he created them, they were not of his essence. Likewise, there is no indication that the Israelites ever stopped believing that these other elohim existed. They would explicitly have to deny their own scriptures to do so. That is the context in which psalm 82 is written, and it is the context that Jesus is referring to when he references psalm 82. So lets think about that. Jesus has essentially just claimed to be equal with God. The scribes and Pharisees want to put him to death for blasphemy as a result. Jesus defends himself by referring to Psalm 82. Why? One of the more common interpretations is that Psalm 82 refers to human rulers and judges (notably the leaders of Israel) as gods. In this view Jesus is essentially saying "you can't get mad at me for claiming to be equal with God himself, because God said that your own ancestors were gods." This makes no sense. It doesn't work either logically or theologically. Even if the original passage does refer to human beings as gods, that in no way makes them equal with Yahweh God. Thus the defense fails logically, and would still contradict multiple other passages in the OT. It also doesn't work theologically because it makes Jesus essentially say that his claim to be equal with God is just metaphorical and fundamentally no different than the ancient Israelite leaders who were gods. This is just a really bad interpretation. So what is Jesus actually doing here? He is saying "remember the Divine Council? you know for a fact, from your own scriptures that there are other divine beings that Yahweh himself called gods." The clear implication of this is also referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, because if you remember the divine council, the inescapable implication is that in the Divine Council of the OT there is one who is equal with God. Namely the Son of Man. So Jesus is saying "you accuse me of blasphemy because I make myself equal with God, but remember that there is a divine council and that in that divine council there is a person who your own scriptures make equal with God." They must certainly of known, at the same time, that Jesus was commonly referring to himself as the Son of Man.

@Qwerty-jy9mj

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting

@zhihanlim3500

2 жыл бұрын

Cool. Did you get this from Dr. Michael Heiser's the Unseen Realm?

@joshuacooley1417

2 жыл бұрын

@@zhihanlim3500 more less. Technically I got a lot of it from watching Heiser talks on KZread over the years, but it's the same material he out in Unseen Realm. I don't agree with everything he says but his divine council stuff is great.

Most of the early beliefs of the LDS Church, including the remarks of President Lorenzo Snow, were based upon the King Follett discourse. This was a sermon not delivered by Joseph Smith to the LDS Church, but rather at a private funeral. Elements of it may still be widely believed among members of the LDS Church today, nevertheless it is not Official Church doctrine, nor is it being taught as such. It's true that remnants of the doctrine remain within our Standard Works today, but that is all. "Mormons"certainly do not believe that each member will rule his own planet like a God.

@scotthullinger4684

24 күн бұрын

Any actual sermon delivered by Joseph Smith is OF COURSE going to include genuine doctrine, whether it be at a funeral, or elsewhere. If Joseph invoked the name of God and spoke of him, then his statements are legitimate. That is, after all, precisely what genuine prophets always do. They speak on behalf of God. On the other hand ... false prophets do no such thing.

@jamesbaldwin7676

24 күн бұрын

@@scotthullinger4684 I'll say it again...Joseph Smith was not addressing the Church nor any of it's leadership at the time and not every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of a Prophet, are necessarily the Word of the Lord. The King Follet address Is Not official Church doctrine, period.

@scotthullinger4684

24 күн бұрын

@@jamesbaldwin7676 - Wow, are you really this stupid? SHOW ME anything appearing is that King Follet address which is CONTRARY to the so-called "official church doctrine." The point is, you CAN'T find it because no such contrary teachings exist. Doctrine is steadfast. Prophets don't contradict themselves, nor does the church as a whole. More, please. Your demonstrations of idiocy are monumentally entertaining. When church leaders speak, everything they say in the way of doctrine comes from scripture and from modern day revelation. They don't make up shit. You're exactly like a guy who says that a proper baptism is just sprinkling water, rather than baptism by full immersion. You don't even have your pinky toe dipped into the baptismal font.

@KathyStrickland-nh9vx

4 күн бұрын

No, not each member, just the more obedient men providing they paid their tithes, got their temple recommends and maybe even a 2nd anointing.

@jamesbaldwin7676

4 күн бұрын

@@KathyStrickland-nh9vx Only sealed and endowed couples !man and wife) are eligible for Celestial glory and "Second Anointing" is a discontinued Temple ordinance.

6:57. There is no multi-verse in theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. At least the way multiverse is used in The Flash television show. Our Father has a real existence in reality.

Yes they actually teach that any worthy male that lives a good life will become a God and get their own world. They prefer "world" over planet. They teach that the God of this world was once a man like you or I and and lived a good life and became a God of some world. They have a couplet that goes, "As man is, God once was; As God now is, man may become." I think this has become an embarrassment to them, and they are trying to deemphasizing it.

@NAK_2112

Жыл бұрын

Got into a pissing match with a couple Mormons on Instagram over becoming a God. They got VERY defensive and swore they didn’t believe that. I laughed, told them I’d pray for them and stopped responding. Might link this video for them to watch.

And GOD THE SON!

Jesus called eternal life was to know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. And Paul said God's grace is unsurchable. We as you can't be God.

We do not become Him. We will always give glory to Him and eterneties from now our creations will give him further glory.

Did he claimed catholicism is the true faith?