A couple of issues with this test: 1. Screen recording will affect the audio, depending on what the settings of the recording software are. These codecs are not lossless so they will sacrifice some parts of the audio, therefore the audio from the screen recordings will never sound identical to the audio coming from the DAW, even if the two would be identical before the screen recording. So with other words, this is not a reliable test. Therefore, no the playback and output of Ableton isn't different (although it still could be), but what you are picking up is the artifacts introduced by the codec of the screen recording (which is probably either an MP3 or an AAC codec). 2. The Logic Pro file is ever so slightly off from the others, even though you said it's lined up properly. The audio playback proves this when you can hear the weird phasing once you cancel it to another recording. That phasing happens because there is an ever so minute difference in timing between the two files. Again, this makes it a poor comparison. Therefore this simply isn't an accurate null test, what you should've done is taken an audio file, placed it onto a track in each DAW, bounced the results to new audio files with the same export settings in each DAW, then compare the new files by phase cancellation. That way you are purely relying on what the DAW does to the audio, not the codec of the screen recording software.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Great points! Fortunately I accounted for all of this and I will explain: 1. All audio samples were compressed to the same quality codec! 2. All samples have the same sample rate and bit rate! 3. The logic file is recorded the exact same way as the ableton file as well. They are both line up to the sample but what you’re hearing is a a big difference in transient handling between the two. 4. Lastly, the null test you explained does not at all test the fidelity of the playback engine inside of the DAWs. It only handles questions regarding differences in export quality which has already been proven to be null with most DAWs. Thank you for watching and sharing your perspective! Best of luck 🙏

@pianoatthirty

Ай бұрын

The point is that bouncing out an audio file isn’t the same as real time playback. The comparison no one ever does, which this guy did, is to record the real time output of the DAW - not doing an offline bounce.

@artfxdnb

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR Ah okay, didn't catch this was specifically about playback audio and thought you were also talking about exported audio. Anyways I still would not rely on recording the audio through a lossy codec with a screen recorder for a test like this, probably better off recording the lossless audio coming straight out of the DAW (which can be done easily with looping audio back into an audio interface). You never know what weird artifacts the AAC or MP3 codecs introduce and it just needlessly adds distortion to each file. I'm not entirely convinced on the Logic part, it really sounds like they are ever so slightly off from each other in terms of alignment giving it that phasing sound, but maybe I'm wrong, hard to tell without actually doing the test myself.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

@@artfxdnb The interesting part of the recording is that Logic actually was not giving me the exactly same volume on the file. This and the shape of the transients changed as well. It was definitely a bit of a shocking difference to me, but I can always perform the test once more to be certain! That said, I definitely encourage you to try the test out yourself as well and let me know what you find!

@norakat

Ай бұрын

I agree that this is not a valid test. I don’t think most people have the engineering background to determine this.

I don't want to sound like a hater, but screen recording is not a viable way to make this type of comparison. Regardless of the fact that the sample used is the same in both DAWs, between the screen recording process and the production of the final video there are several variables, such as compression of the output video from the capture application, audio alignment, even some type of hidden sample rate conversion feature. If the screenshot codec is not lossless (which it doesn't seem to be, as the first phase inversion test shows exactly what we expect from a codec: loss of treble), this makes this test invalid.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

It truly is viable as all files used in the test were compressed with the same codec. I didn't want to get too technical in the video, but all the files in the video are compressed with the exact same codec and are of the exact same fidelity. I can understand your worry though! Moreover, for those who are still worried about the file quality differences, I the bottom two files were captures and imported the EXACT same way. This confirms a few things the internet has been telling about DAWs is wrong. Thank you for watching! 🙏

@sxrgwrld

Ай бұрын

Yea I agree, this isn't a good experiment. If you wanna hear if there is a difference, import the same file in each daw, export the file with the same settings, then import the exported versions in one DAW and do a null test. I've seen engineers do this and it completely cancels out. Idk about yall but I def wouldn't trust my computer's built in screen recording to be consistent with transparently capturing audio.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

@@sxrgwrld unfortunately the test you are talking about only compares export quality which is already coded to be consistent across DAWs and slaved only to GPU digitally speaking. When it comes to playback, this is one of the only two tests that can actually show accurate results displaying that playback - NOT export quality - differs between DAWs. Thats said, I didn’t use building screen recording software and like I mentioned above in my reply, all the files went through the same capturing process to be certain there is no unconsidered variables. That said, stay tuned because next week, I’m releasing an in depth video that will properly document what is going on here with multiple DAWs and a very intensive loopback audio test.

@HOLLASOUNDS

29 күн бұрын

He fails to realise that in the DAW the bate rate is not caped and cant not clip audio range, however when exported it is caped by 16 or 24 bit and will never have the dynamic range of the sound that is played directly from a DAW. The same story for modern MPCs recording the audio out is far better because it captures the full uncaped dynamics vs Export internally which is limited by the bit rate format of the exported WAV file.

I subbed because you gave a great Null Test. Keep the great info coming..

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Thank you, appreciate the sub! Lots more to stuff on the way! 🙏

Quick update for anyone interested - this video inspired me to try this test out using Audio Hijack - recording lossless at 24 bit - both in the latest version of Reaper and an old version of Ableton 9.7. I brought the recorded files into Reaper to make sure everything was completely aligned to the sample dot (Ableton can't really do this kind of precision). And you know what? Silence. Everything phase cancelled. Try the experiment out yourself. As someone who thought for years (and even had colleagues in Hollywood who'd say "Ableton sounds bad") - it really is all in your head. They don't playback differently. Now go have fun.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

This was a great idea! The only thing to note is that the change happens when the audio engine interacts with core audio or whichever drivers you are using in your computer. Audio Hijack bypasses that altogether and you’ll head a naked sound that would definitely phase cancel from what I understand of this situation. Also, you can use “InPhase” by waves to line up any audio in any DAW, that’s what I used unless it’s not reliable of course but I found it to be accurate! I’ve got a really intensive test coming up really soon where I get really crazy and go over every possible angle so that I can clear this up!

@pianoatthirty

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR Ok cool! Didn’t know that. Looking forward to your test.

Finally someone can hear

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

14 күн бұрын

🙏🙏🙏

This is great. I’ve always heard a difference in the playback of Ableton, but of course people freak out and get all emotional whenever you bring this up. Drum loops, synths, reverbs, guitar amp sims, etc all seem to loose depth and weight in Ableton. The playback in Pro tools, or Reaper, on the other hand, has always felt open and more alive. It almost feels like you have to layer more in Ableton because sounds get so constrained. Again, this is a real-time playback issue, not an offline bounce issue. Unfortunately no DAW is as much fun to use as Ableton. Oh well, c’est la vie.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Love this comment bro, you read my mind! Thanks for watching 🙏

I was listening on an iPhone, and I could hear the difference. The Logic version had a boosted low end and was kind of congested in the mid-range. The Ableton version sounded like some of the low end had been rolled off, but was way more articulate in the mid. Are you running Logic X or 11?

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I completely agree, that’s exactly how I heard it too! In that test I was running Pro X but I’ve got 11 now and it sounds the exact same to me here! Thanks for watching 🙏

I agree that this test does not prove what you are saying. If anything, it just indicates that there is a difference in screen-recorded audio from one platform to the other. That said, one really big factor when playing back audio in Live is the warping engine used. Typically no warping should be on if you want this to be a fair 1-to-1 comparison, and this was not evident from the video. But I would go even one step further and indicate project settings and audio file settings as the next main factor for a fair comparison. Without these details, then its an incomplete test imo.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

18 күн бұрын

All of this was taken in into consideration well before capturing this test. I cover exactly how I made sure this test was done properly in many of the other comments and I’ve got another one coming up for all the nay sayers who couldn’t hear the difference in the first A/B test. Thanks for checking out the video!

One time I hear greg Ondo (a employee of Steingberg - Cubase Nuendo) said that he do a comparison with diferrent DAW with cubase and he found out that some DAW Phase Shift problems when they are doing playback. They really know what they are doing so I think about it a lot lol.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

That is wild! That exact phase issue is something I’m noticing in certain DAWs in testing and I totally thought I was doing something wrong in my tests until I eventually realized it wasn’t the tests - it’s the DAWs! Thank you for this comment and watching the video 🙏

I definitely heard the difference immediately between Logic & Abelton.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

And that is all the proof any of us should need! Trusting our ears is the most important thing we can do. Thanks for watching 🙏

@startingoverbygrace

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR you’re welcome.

Thank you. However, lot of people are saying the opposite. I again I am 💯 with you on this topic.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

It’s definitely been a very controversial topic in the audio community! Glad to shed some light on this 🙏 thank you for watching!

Perfect, thx for the test. For me, Cubase Pro is King, also Nuendo. What do you think about EQ plugins? I think, that there is zero benefit, to buy all the plugins, because they all sound the same if you make a phase zero test.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Thank you for checking out this video! If you wondering whether most parametric EQ's sound the same, the answer is yes BUT only with the same settings and features (like linear modelling, oversampling, etc.). Great EQs like fabfilter and iZotope EQs have very similar features and tools that enable them to be used in a similar fashion and to get a similar sound. That said, analog modelled EQ's are different. They all impart sound to your music and mixes and should be used on case by case basis! Hope this helps 🙏!

@LabofmusicRecords

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR thx 😎

Why didn't you compare Logic's screen-recorded playback versus the original file? To see how they match. Because if they don't as well - then how to tell if Ableton's playback is worse than Logic's in terms of producing or mixing music? Just curious, you know what I mean? I use Reaper btw

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

This is a great question actually! I should have thought of that! I'll be sure to throw that comparison up soon and tag you in the comments! Thank you for watching 🙏

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Oh yeah! I also really like Reapers sound for mixing and mastering, sometimes I find making decisions in Reaper easier than in Protools... Cheers!

@xeityrj405

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR I haven't tried using Pro Tools for myself yet, but after watching your video it started to make sense to me why people often bounce multitrack from Ableton to mix and master it somewhere else. I always thought it was due to convenience of some specific tools and additional functionallity available in more "traditional" daws. Now it gets more interesting. Nevertheless, I think great results can be achieved in any DAW, just as you mentioned. I also used to watch catandbeats videos, who does all the mixing and mastering exclusively in Ableton and he manages to achieve great sounding songs, cause dude is a pro and knows what he's doing. Also he has hi-end monitoring system and a room designed just for that, which is much more important than how a DAW sounds. But still, its good to know that there really is a difference.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

@@xeityrj405 This is true, DAW colour is definitely not the only thing that influences the quality of a mix and master. Experience is THE most important thing for sure. I have plenty of experience mixing in Ableton for 8 years straight and even with my 80k dollar desk, I still struggle getting what I want from the DAW compared to when I use Protools, Reaper, Luna and Nuendo! Great point about catandbeats as well, great creator!

I think Logic sounds great and Pro Tools as well, but I don't like them. I use Ableton. I can always send my Ableton Stems to my buddy to mix and master in Pro Tools.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

21 күн бұрын

Definitely! Whatever works best for you is perfect no matter what anyone else’s experience is and regardless of the DAWs sounding different! Thanks for checking out this video 🙏

Is there any different in quality between Nuendo and cubase

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I’ll be sure to make a video on this! I’ve never actually tested the difference but I do have both programs to get to the bottom of this! 🙏

@djerikfox

Ай бұрын

no...its the same engine!!

Interesting. I’d always had trouble when inverting the phase on an instrumental and full version of a track to get the acapella as well. I’d like to see a deep dive of the comparison between the summing of the mixers in ableton vs logic. I’ve not seen anyone do this online as yet

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

This is a very interesting topic of discussion for sure! The test will be a bit more tricky to document but I think I can make it happen 😎! Thanks for watching 🙏

The files different on export vs what played jn the DAW because there is no bit rate cap while in the DAW vs when you have to export the audio from the DAW it will be t the 16 or 24 bit rate. The difference your hearing from the video capture is whats outside of the 16 or 24 bit Wave file exported from the DAW.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

21 күн бұрын

This is null when you run the same bit clip on all the files. Moreover, the files were lossless as well, I made sure everything was 16 bit and 44.1 in the softwares used to capture the playback audio. Thanks for checking out this video 🙏

@HOLLASOUNDS

14 күн бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR I dont think thats correct.

I heard the difference in the first test from my pos phone lol

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

5 күн бұрын

@@33beatzmusik yessir, the proof is in the pudding! Thanks for watching 🙏

I notice there are differences not just in how they bounce or export but how they process plug-in synthesizers. A high quality Piano plugin I use sounds more natural on Protools as compared to FL studio. Who knows what causes it.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Thank you for watching! This is also due to the difference in playback quality. Protools playback has a very detailed quality to it. That why people feel like instruments sound more natural and why certain people say they feel they have to work harder in protools than other DAWS to get a good mix! 🙏

Would love to see all DAWS!!!!

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I’ll definitely be making more in depth videos cover all the major DAWs! Thank you for watching! 🙏

People act like I am crazy or an ignorant when I tell them Pro Tools sounds different than other DAWs. Nice to see ppl are running tests and agreeing with this. Thx for the video. Subbed for Pro Tools vs other DAWs comparison.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Thank you for watching and I’ll be back very soon with more DAW tests! 🙏

Daws definitely tell different and its funny seeing everyone in here try to use any excuse they can possibly think of to justify that they dont lmao…. I have 4 different daws and every time i switch from one ive been using for weeks to a different 1 because i was sent a project in that daw i instantly notice the difference in sound. I mean it wouldnt be shocking to think that different sound engines sound different and when they programs are created just like different eq plugins or compressors sound different that the coding they used make them would make it sound different.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I truly don’t understand how this has ever been up for debate myself! I’m coming through next week with a killer test to end all DAW tests to hopefully put ALL discussion of the topic to rest 😂 you are so right bro and there are so many variables in play when it comes to DAWs for sure! Thank you for checking out the video man 🙏

thanks for this video, I I used LOGIC years ago when it was still running on Windows, then because Logic only worked on Mac OS, I switched to Ableton... and since then my problems with mixes started... I always felt that Ableton does not sound the same as Logic, but I was struggling with this thought because so many people use it , now you confirmed my fears, thanks again

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

My pleasure man, years of getting used to one sound can make it tough to adjust for sure. I was in the same boat as you, I totally get it. Thank you for checking out the video and best of like with your productions 🙏

Thanks Bro, I'm not crazy.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

My pleasure bro, thanks for checking out this video! 🙏

So what does this mean if I want to still work in Ableton can anything be brought out of Ableton without suffering this fate? Can it be produced in Ableton and then mixed in another DAW?

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

You can still mix in ableton! But if you’re having trouble in ableton but find that protools or other daws are doing more justice to your work, you can definitely export stems and will have clean and uncolored work to mix!

@prcption8636

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR so this only applies to playback not exports? I’m confused

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

@@prcption8636 yes that's exactly right. This is only a playback issue, most DAWs export audio with the exact same quality, this is where most of the internet actually misses the boat!

@prcption8636

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR Ah then that present a major problem what you’re hearing is not what you’re getting, but I wonder how drastic this really is

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

In my opinion, it really depends on genre. I find ableton to be extremely forgiving in EDM or other digital sounding groups but with band work and acoustic stuff I find it delivers a sound that lacks the necessary warmth, fullness and naturalness of some other DAWs

Seas of forums making me feel crazy for so long… thank you for the bit of vindication 😂. I know ableton like the back of my hand, and don’t get me wrong, the workflow is unmatched by others imo. Unfortunately there’s been countless sessions where I got lost in a rabbit hole flipping between my daws wondering why tf abletons playback just doesn’t sound right. Might just be me, but I feel as though it creates this “brittleness” to the sound, forcing my hand in bad mix decisions. Also spacial effects just not feeling how they should… my Valhalla vintage smears in ableton, sounds gorgeous in logic. These are things I chalked up to placebo, though I do know for sure that aliasing when pitch shifting in ableton is audibly brutal. Even in the highest interpolation mode in the samplers… doesn’t compare to the cleanliness of even FL.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I had a very similar experience to you as well! I had to go down this rabbit hole and get to the bottom of this! I was switching and testing out all the DAWs out there and finally landed on mix of a few for different things! You’re also so right about the reverb stuff - thanks for checking out this video! 🙏

I am not sure if I heard a difference with the same track A-B as such but I commonly feel a difference from one DAW to another. Not so much with straight playback on an audio track (not to say it isn't a thing as I assume it is) but with mixing and rendering, how synths and VST sound. Popping the Reason Rack (Europa, Thor + effects) into another DAW like Reaper or Bitwig compared to at home in Reason feels very different. Most DAWs clearly change high highs eg 15k+ whereas Reason seems brutally honest like it just goes up and leaves the '"screechies" to the user to decide what to do with. Some DAWs are much harder to feel like it is easy to get a clear (non-muddy) mix that translates outside. Whether 100% fact or not, the feel when using different DAWs is a thing. Nothing wrong with that. So I never understand why people get so bent about it. It would be as silly as people getting bent about their Neve having Neve sound or SSL people getting bent about SSL sound. Every tool will have its feel - or why bother with it. :-)

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

3 күн бұрын

I think it all really is taste and preference based for sure. They all can work, just have to pick your battles and I’m definitely gonna go try Reason now for reference! Thanks for watching 🙏

Damn pro tools sound clearer I guess? I've been thinking logic pro sounds dull compared to fl studio but those differences are massive. And logic pro even changes the sound when it bounces the project, it sucks.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Logic is definitely a tricky playback engine but I do find it easier to mix in than most other DAWs except Protools! Thanks for watching 🙏

Live Ableton is not a DAW for mixing and mastering but for live session and production. That's why the audio engine is setup to give you in realtime on playback not the 100 % quality of the sound, because is meant to run without problem live or production sessions. If the audio engine is setup to give you in realtime 100 % quality on every playback, it will use more CPU and you will have other problems. That's why, Ableton, like FL Studio are designed for production and live sessions and gives you on playback lower quality. That's why DAW's like Ableton or FL Studio where never designed for mixing and mastering but for production, musical ideas or live sessions. So use Ableton just for production and live session and other DAW's like Studio One or Pro Tools for mixing and mastering.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

This is well put! I definitely agree that it was definitely not well designed for mixing and mastering - even though it’s heavily advertised as a production and mixing tool! Studio one is tricky, try this same test I did but with studio one, you’d be surprised at the quality there. Thank you for watching 🙏

@Manuel_Manzotti

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOURwhat result did you get with Studio One?

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

@@Manuel_Manzotti I honestly got very poor results with studio one. The playback seems the most off to me of all the DAWs and I’m not even certain the exports null against Protools, I have to check with that. Love the workflow in the software, very very well thought out but the sound makes it very hard to use for me!

It is true that DAWs dont sound the same i ran hundreds of test my self for quite some time, here is the issue with Mac will sound always better than PC because of the system peaks, 2nd each DAW has a complete workflow for making the music like the Fades on the audio files will create different sound for your example the way you did fades in Live was way choppy compared to Logic so the result will vary, the mixer are different in each daw so the sound the balanced will be different in every daw if you are used to for example Logic, that result in different EQing that results to different sound which cause vocals to be little thin in live than in Logic, so each person will create a different sound in daws and some might struggle to achieve the same sound on other DAWs, thats why its highly recommended to try a lot of DAWs and make at least 10 songs on each to find the workflow that help you reach your sound, a great example Skrellix uses Live11-12 you cant say his mixes are bad XD, Fred again Logic sounds amazing, Zedd Cubase sounds amazing as well, Martin Garrix FL you get my point find your workflow each one is different thats why there are lots of Daws :).

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

This is a great comment! I agree fully, results will vary from person to person and I think it’s definitely worth noting that Electronic music is the most forgiving genre mixing and recording wise due to its highly digital nature! When it comes to recording bands, pop music, or rock music, it can become more difficult to get results that sound extremely natural and full outside of Protools and Logic Pro x and even Reaper and Luna, but there’s definitely no hard and fast rules. Like you said, I also encourage people to try any DAWs they can early on - that way they have the best chance at finding the sound and workflow that benefits their sound. Something else really great you mentioned here is regarding Mac sound cards and their quality in comparison to Windows. This is a very real thing and I’ll be making a video about that as well! There are work arounds for this but they can be somewhat expensive! Thank you for your comment and checking out my video 🙏

@djerikfox

Ай бұрын

👍

Different DAWs sound different. I can almost tell a song entirely done on FL immediately I listen to it and a song done in Logic or Cubase. Each DAW has it's own feel

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Facts! I feel the same way! Love this comment here because the industry can always tell what DAW is used but never acknowledge what the means about the DAWs! Thank you for watching 🙏

@jonesnyirenda

Ай бұрын

This is cap. A song may go through different DAWs by the time it reaches the airwaves or DSPs. The production may start in Ableton, get mixed in Pro Tools then Mastered in Cubase. How the hell are you going to know it was made in Ableton? Isn't Pro Tools or any other DAW going to add its own color to it? Let's stop lying to ourselves that we can hear things or whatever. Do yourself & everybody else a favour by doing a blind test. If you can pick out each DAW consistently, then my friend indeed you have special ears. Otherwise, all this daw sounds what what is just a waste of time now. Use what works for you & stop comparing things that are irrelevant to the listener. You're making music for people who don't give a rats ass about which DAW a song was made. Why stress about it? Are you making music to impress other engineers or producers?

@MastaGOfficial

Ай бұрын

Can you tell me what DAW I used for my songs in my channel? Try and guess.

@startingoverbygrace

Ай бұрын

You are absolutely right.

@Mope333

Ай бұрын

@@jonesnyirendaWhat I was thinking too 😂 people be insane typing things like that. WE CANNOT TELL all the time…

The difference is there , am sure it has to do with how these songs are coded and designed they all sound different, depends with what you’re comfortable with

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Has everything to do with the sound engine in the DAW and how that interacts with outboard and other processes inside a production. There are actually some more potential repercussions to this, outside of just playback issues! Thanks for watching 🙏

I'm gonna tell you. They all sound a little bit different. My measure is what happens in the quiet part of tracks. Is there a hum. What's going on I'm there. My main DAW is FL Studio and comparatively it is quite noisy. Examples of a quiet DAW to me would be Mixcraft and even LMMS. No spare dirt sound at all. 2nd quiet would be Abelton, and then loud and dirty would be FL and MAGIX Music Maker. 😂 That's not necessarily a bad thing, just different.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

That’s actually a very interesting observation! A noise floor like that would certainly be troublesome! Thanks for checking out this video 🙏

@Mope333

Ай бұрын

I’m surprised on how and why Mixcraft isn’t as big, especially the features it comes with. People just see it as Window version of GarageBand/Logic Pro X

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

@@Mope333 I believe it’s more of a windows thing than it is a problem with the DAW! Bitwig was windows native for a while too but that didn’t last long, too many producers on Mac these days but some Windows Rigs are insane too!

I agree 100 percent.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

🙏

you really compared the output of a screen recording app to determine if it sounds different? why? how many people use screen recording software to export their mixdowns?

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Yes! That’s exactly what I did. Moreover, if you run a song through a loss file player and screen record that as well, you have the exact same file codec compression on all of the audio used in this test! If playback is truly transparent in the DAW’s, it should yield the exact same results across the board this way, but it doesn’t. I’ve actually got a more in depth test coming out soon where I run loop backs through monitor outputs and record them. That said, all tests are executed for the most honest results. Lastly, this has nothing to do with mixdown exports and everything to do with playback engines and therefore there are limited ways to effectively test this. Thanks for watching 🙏

@Marvotronics

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR so you've done an arbitrary test of a random codec in a screen recording app. well done.

@Marvotronics

Ай бұрын

To be more constructive - instead of using a screen recorder which makes your tests meaningless, use an audio routing app like Existential Audio Blackhole. Record the playback of whichever app, logic, live, etc.. into another app - for example Reaper. THEN Sample align them and flip the phase.

@Marvotronics

Ай бұрын

If you want a spoiler - I just did this exact test. Recorded Logic into live. Recorded Live into logic. Recorded reaper into Logic. They all null.

A truely excellent video. I would love to see you compare Reaper (For us amateurs on a budget). The colorisation of monitoring in my opnion probably has and equal effect.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Definitely, I do believe as well that it can play an important role across the board depending! Thank you 🙏!

@evad_the_awesome9913

Ай бұрын

Thanks for listening. I am an old 70's Australian engineer. I worked on Neve, MCI and SSL consoles (I even spent a week at the old Grateful Dead studios in Brady St SF). Your life with DAW's is complicated. Legacy systems had color but we knew it. My JBL and Tanny monitors had color and phase issues but we knew it. My first lexicon 224 which half replaced my Neuman plate was colored as but we new that as well. The producers engineers dont understand the complexity if digital. Analog was so easy.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

@@evad_the_awesome9913 Wow, what an incredible background in analog! I’m jealous! I totally agree with this and I really appreciate that insight. Digital comes along with boat loads of smoke and mirrors and I look forward to being able to work on a great console full time one day 🙏

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

@@evad_the_awesome9913 oh yes! And most definitely! I will be testing reaper and posting that soon as well 🙏

Test reaper

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Will do! Thanks for watching 🙏

i tottaly agree with your pov, this is the reason that people that really works with mastering don't do bouncing, they record inside the daw and them they pick the file on audio files folder.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

There are actually a whole wack of tricks mastering engineers use to get to most true and transparent results! I’ll be sure to make a video on this asap! Thanks for watching 🙏

It all comes down to audio engines, core code. I find it hilarious that people say things like "FL sounds better than Logic" or similar.. Sure, image-line built out a better audio engine and workflow than Apple lol. Maybe they sound a touch different but to say one is better is subjective dependant on what you're doing and how you're testing. I've built out tons of VST's, fx, romplers, Juce components, it all comes down to that core engine + code.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

This is completely true. Codec and playback engines make all the difference! Past that, it’s down to taste and what works best for you in your genre, style, workflow, and situation! Thanks for watching 🙏

maybe Im crazy but they don't...specially logic and cubase! its not better one than other but just different...i did a test, if you use audio samples only they will 99 percent sound the same, but vst inst they don't...tried kontakt, avenger, nexus, they wont ,,null,, and you can here the difference, cubase sounds warmer more open , logic sounds kinda saturated and dull..maybe its just my ears...regards

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I completely agree. That’s exactly how I would describe them myself. Funny phenomenon with these DAWs! Thanks for checking out this video 🙏

Where all the ableton live gangs at?🔊👀

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I’m right here 😂 will always support Ableton still, just wouldn’t recommend you mixed a indie folk band project in it!

@producebyavionstylz

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR its workflow is amazing

You never mentioned exactly what sounds different about the tracks early in the video. What is it that you're hearing that we can't? Are these differences significant enough for an average person to notice or care about? The big question is, are you happy with the end product you get from your DAW? I think that is the question we need to ask ourselves as producers & engineers.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I do feel that if you don’t notice the difference yourself, this test won’t really same a difference to your work flow - especially if you’re happy with the result. I went searching for answers because originally, I had a pretty cheap setup and any improvement in quality I could make a big difference to me. I figured getting an expensive setup would be make anything possible but now that I’ve got some 12k dollar monitors, I can hear the difference more than ever. I’m personally not completely happy more than 70 percent of the time with the mixed and mastered products I make out of ableton while most of the EDM stuff I’ve worked on got done in Ableton just fine! Thanks for checking out the video 🙏

All DAWs have a sound based on your interface. You cannot tell what someone listening to a KZread video will hear vs you creating the video because you're not going to have the same DACs for playback. There is a sound kernel created by each DAW company that has it's own character but it's overshadowed by the interface and your speakers and your cabling/wiring.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

21 күн бұрын

I thought about this and would like to understand more about specifically DAW, core audio, ASIO, and how they all interact with DACs and interfaces on the software end. Please provide articles, reference, or resources with expertise in the area to provide some background and explanation - perhaps some proof of concept videos for me to watch and understand this part. Thank you!🙏

The most common mixing DAWs are Pro Tools, Studio One, Logic, Cubase and Reaper. It would be great if you were to compare those

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Thank you for watching! I will definitely post a video about this, feel free to subscribe to get notified about future videos 🙏

Studio One sucks big time it sound so bad too dull u keep add on plugins for shit sound,,I use protools for recordngs and fl for instruments those are enough 😤🤘

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

That’s the dream team right there. FL and protools together can create magic and have more than any other DAWs in the history of DAWs! Thanks for watching!

I love the idea of this video and I agree that daws do sound different. But the “screen capture“ part totally botched your null test. I would love to see this done again using better methods. You should just do a bounce out of each daw and then import the files and null them against each other.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Unfortunately that doesn’t test the playback inside of each DAW, it just compares the export! All files were also capture through the same codec and audio capture so that is null. I understand how that is easily and often confused though. Thanks for watching! 🙏

I have Pro Tools, it sounds boxy and not warm as Logic. Even Reason, which I also have, sounds better than my Pro Tools. Pro Tools might sound like the SSL Big Six. I don’t have the Logic DAW, but that’s what I want, especially when they never tried to force you into a subscription like Pro Tools. You didn’t explain what sounded different in those tracks you played. Maybe it’s KZread’s compression, because it wasn’t a big difference that I heard with my headphones.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

3 күн бұрын

What DAC and monitors are you using?

@DanteWilliams728

3 күн бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR I used my Sony studio headphones. I would be able to tell better if I tested this in my car system. You still didn’t explain the difference, however, from my experience, I have to agree with you. DAW’s do sound different.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

2 күн бұрын

@@DanteWilliams728 As long as you can hear the difference that's what matters. I asked what DAC you are using because Protools is definitely not boxy - but gear can sound boxy. The degree to which you can hear and feel the difference will depend on your experience in different DAWs as well as the gear you're relying on. Although Sony MDRs and other headphones will most certainly allow you to hear a difference, using high quality headphone amps as well as quality DAC's will permit you to make personal and accurate judgement calls about which one is actually subjectively and objectively better for you. There are many variables when it comes to playback and though DAWs can play an important role, it is only ONE of the many variables at play. Feel free to link me to your work and I'd be happy to go over anything with you if you'd like an outside perspective on your setup and workflow. Any DAW can work well for anyone, it's all about knowing the weak points, picking your battles, making peace, and being consistent. Hope this helps and thanks for watching my video!

@DanteWilliams728

2 күн бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR It helped a lot. Thank you. I have the Apogee Symphony for studio recording, but I’m about to get the Allen & Heath sq for live performance. I almost was going to purchase the Soundcraft Si Expansion, but I’m not sure about their phase alignment like the Allen & Heath. I’ll be releasing my music in 2025, I have to get my EIN first. I had some of my songs up on KZread, but they kept playing with my numbers with the views I was receiving, so I took all of my music down, people want me to put it back up, but I can wait. I record with Reason instead of using my ProTools, which is the latest version. I also like the sound of Logic. With my ProTools, I was using my Sonnox plugin’s, that’s very expensive. I also look at the reliability of the company and how they treat their customers. I spent over $2,000 for the Digi 002 when Digidesigm was with the company, when Avid took over, they didn’t update the drivers to ProTools. I also have a Universal Audio Volt, which is cheap, that works well with my Intel Mac and my M1X MacBook Pro. Continue to make great videos, as far as DAW’s, I think I prefer Logic over ProTools. I don’t have that one yet.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

2 күн бұрын

@@DanteWilliams728 thank you Dante! That all sounds great and I’m definitely a big supporter of logic as a one stop shop DAW! The new stem splitter feature is also very powerful and high quality. Makes for a great choice of DAW overall! Symphony is the most musical Analog to digital conversion on the market. The headphone amp is great in the mkII and seems similar in the symphony desktop, but I’d have to double check. If you are ever in the market for a playback DAC, I highly recommend you try out the RME ADI stuff. It’s second to none and the headphone amps are quite great in their products! Looking forward to your releases next year man, it’ll go great for sure 🙏

I heard it Cleary on my cellphone Logic is better

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

I completely agree! 🙏

Having all those logos on the thumbnail its quite misleading ... just sayin. "Does Logic sound the same as Ableton" that would be a proper title.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

This is actually the first video in a series of DAW comparisons I will be making! We will go through a bunch of them shortly! I'll be sure to tag you in the comments! Are there any DAWs in particular you'd like to see tested and compared?

@CoreySpearman03

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR Please test Studio One because I swear my ear hates the sound of Studio One, and I actually love the daw.

@unified_method

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR Cubase and Live if not already scheduled would be great.

I can say, the algorithm in different daws are not the same.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

Ай бұрын

Facts! Thanks for watching 🙏

@jrcallahan506

Ай бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR sure thing.

What does a screen recording test prove? It only shows that the screen recording audio codec is lossy. It has nothing to do with the Daw. In the same way that any mp3-type format encoded on the fly will be different every time. This test is completely invalid. . The only valid comparison you can perform is of null tests of output mixdowns without dither. That's it. Every other test brings in an external variable with invalidates the results. Why did you not compare the most obvious test? Because they null. I used to be a daw salesman and i performed this test correctly with 8 daws in the early 2000s, they all nulled when correctly configured. Even your resample here should have been a complete null, so something is wrong here. I suspect you have not turned on 32float recording. Or i suspect your source audio is not PCM format and therefore has been through a decoding stage.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

21 күн бұрын

The two screen recordings are of the exact same codec and sample rates. The null test you performed is the reason everyone is confused about this. I’m not talking about export nulling, I’m testing playback here. Thats also why I started the video with playback from both DAWs. If you can’t hear it or don’t want to hear it, this test or any true playback comparison tests (which there aren’t any on KZread at least) won’t help you anymore than just knowing the fact. I working for a DAW company and a plugin company, things I’m talking about are simply known in the upper echelons of the pro community but not a lot of people want to believe it in the general public. This was just a simple way of illustrating the point and was a fairly sound test, especially with regard to ableton playback the logic playback. I respect the desire for sharing truth you have and I appreciate you taking the time to comment as well as checking out this video. I have a really DAW test coming up very soon that will definitely help clear this up for those who can’t hear the difference/don’t want to hear the difference. Do you hear the different? 🙏 thanks agin

@Bthelick

21 күн бұрын

Ah right. Well I'm sorry to inform you that's not how live encoding works. Do yourself a favour and test your own testing methodology. Do two screen recordings of the same daw. They will not null. There is no way to test playback . KZread's own video conversion and compression will lossy re encode your lossy recording. Again you are introducing external variables. It's like trying to null after 3 generations of MP3 encoding. Never going to work or prove anything. Even if you could record the output of the Daws via actual live output you are only testing the wave interpolation of the signal via the audio interfaces driver , not the daw. As I said there is no way to truly test live playback of the daw unless you have access to a live digital backdoor before interpolation. Which unless you're a developer you won't. After that the only scientific way to test your results is to load the real output files into a randomiser and perform a double blind test to eliminate any influence of the mcgurk effect. That's literally all you can do to test this correctly. FyI I'm not the general public, I'm a professional engineer and musician, and avid audio scientist for over 15 years. My only income is music and sound.

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

20 күн бұрын

@Bthelick they nulled though brother, just pulled it up this morning, give it a shot and lemme know what happens and we’ll on your end

@Bthelick

20 күн бұрын

@@RAYNETHESAVIOUR did they? What screen recorder and codec was it?

@RAYNETHESAVIOUR

20 күн бұрын

@Bthelick OBS studio, lossless audio and screen recording

@DanWorrall help Dan!

@MrMukundas

24 күн бұрын

yes, please help)) they really think that there is difference in floating point algorithms))) they think that 2 + 2 = 4.6 or 5 or 3.7 in different DAWs))))) lol ) and again they point for some "feel" and "magic" of pro tools and so on)))) @DanWorrall please help them )))))