Back in the beginning of the 70’s i learned to Dive by the CMAS system, because it was the only system in existence (at least here in Denmark), and we always learned that you have to put your weight belt on last, so you easily could drop it at any time, but at that time, most people still used a collar vest with a co2 cartridge and no inflator, and in my club in the early 70’s, we where only two people who had collar BCD’s with inflator and co2 cartridge as backup. My point with this is, that the rules of the use of weight belt originate from this time, and is obsolete now. The funny thing is, that because most divers back in the day only had manual surface collar vest, with co2 cartridges, they HAD to learn how to properly weight themselves, witch in reality meant, that you had to work with your fins the first couple of meters down, and when you reached the destination depth, you where in balance. On your return to the surface, it was sometimes a struggle to stay a 3 meters, (we often used lose weights hanging on the bottom line) and when the time was up, you literally floated up to the surface. Later when the “real” BCD’s came on the market, it was a true blessing, because it made your balance in the water a 100 times better than the old collar style “toilet seat” BCD’s. But when some of the new types with integrated weights arrived on the market, there where some of them who had very bad designed locking mechanism, and I have on several occasions experienced how bad it is to lose half of your weights on the bottom, and then struggle to slow down the race to the surface, and try to avoid hitting the bottom of the boat at the same time 😄 Today I am semi handicapped because of a back injury, so I am not able to take on all the gear, and walk out from the beach, so instead I Dive mostly from a boat, where I assembled the gear from home with integrated weights, and on the Dive site, I submerge the Tank with wing BCD and weights in the water, secure it with a line to the boat, then jump in the water and take on the semi inflated “package” and voila, no stress on my back and, ready to go down in weightless mode...😉

@CUCABURRAAustralia

3 жыл бұрын

Great comment! Well, the locking mechanism of BCD weight pocket is still an issue - some manufacturers make it in a way, that sooner or later the lock will get loose and the diver will drop some amount of his weight at depth. That is exactly why I like backplate and donut wing BCDs so much - much less lead that you need, plus better weight distribution.

@fluffyhamster550

3 жыл бұрын

@Vincent submarinismo Thanks! 🙏🏻 I have made it so that I can take off two weights from the hip sides, (zipper pockets) and two from the back, and hang them on the side of the Boat on a piece of rope. Then I take the tank off and secure it to the rope, and now I can get up on the boat without any help 😄. It’s important for me, that I can dismantle everything after the Dive, so that I can carry it, piece by piece, without it being to heavy 😄

Thank You! You answered a question I have been battling for some time. Thank You!

The only time I would consider ditchable weight a benefit is if there is some major issue on the surface.

@freekvb7726

3 жыл бұрын

Being in trouble in high waves, it could be a benefit.

@volvoman2324

3 жыл бұрын

Removable vs ditching all

There is one, and probably the only good reason, to have ditchable weights. Rescuing an unconscious diver onto a boat or swiming an uncounscious diver a long way back to dry land.

1: The procedure of ditching weight is from a time without BCD's and with old neoprene suits. There was no other way to go to the surface in those days in an emergency. When they were deep, they were really negative and a cramp or being out of air was a real problem then. A lot of organizations did not adapt to the new materials with their education paradigm. I have experienced three times a student lost his/her whole weight belt. Ditchable weight belts are a "solution" for a problem that does not exist anymore. Now, these belts are a big safety hazard. I've tried to change this (amongst others) in the Dutch diving association but there was no way I could get through. Old stubborn people with fixed opinions still rule these associations. 2: Lazy instructors do not teach how to breathe underwater. The natural tendency of a novice diver is to hold their breath, breath out en breathe in again and hold. A good instructor discusses this with the students and trains them to breathe normally before any buoyancy exercises. But most students trimmed by instructors with full lungs and have at least 4 or 6 kilo's more than you expect based on their suits and BMI. They learn to dive while skip breathing. My experience is that it will take 10 minutes extra in the first introduction of diving to learn them to breathe properly and have them on proper amounts of weights. But if they are taught wrongly it will take a year to relearn them proper diving. Note, too much weight is a sign of a breathing problem. The extra ditchable weights are not a conscious choice of the diver, they are taught that way by lazy and old-fashioned instructors. But hopefully, your posts will help to start and change their paradigm. Keep it up!! You're doing good work.

@pbillings808

3 жыл бұрын

I think that is still an issue for thicker wetsuits if the wing has a total failure. Carrying enough weight to sink a 7mm suit coupled with a loss of buoyancy due to suit compression & wing failure makes for a bad day. (Yes, usually there are still options, even if you rip your inflation hose/valve off, like turning your rig upside down..) Regardless, redundant flotation (buddy and/or a sizable DSMB) is a far better idea than dropping weight & riding the rocket. If you're deep enough to worry about getting up without air, a redundant air source (beyond a buddy) would be a smart choice as well.

@Oli4Post

3 жыл бұрын

@@pbillings808 I think you answered it yourself. There are more reasons a 7+7 mm suit is not the best idea for going deep in cold water. Ditchable weight is a patch for the wrong choice of materials. A dry suit is a solution. Exhaled I've neutral buoyancy with just enough air in my suit. To go up, if have to ditch air, not weights.

@SuperScubaTim

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent comments.

No ditching while underwater but I think there is still a case that can be made while ocean diving, there can be circumstances on the surface where to be able to rapidly establish an excess of positive buoyancy is a good thing.

Thank You! You Answered a question I have been debating with dive friends for some time.

Wish I could give this video more than one thumb up! Couldn't agree more!

I have this argument occasionally, which is a good thing as it makes you analyse your thoughts and work through scenarios. Every time I come to the same answer as you! And the only weight-related incidents I have seen ocurred when divers unintentionally dropped a pouch or their belt slipped off. It's a shame 'balanced rig' isn't taught ab initio.

Thank you, guys, great video! I am working as an instructor in Maldives and we have those so-called "reinforced bottom" aluminium 12 litre tanks, that we are diving with every day. With such tank, which is negative buoyant, wearing a rashguard and shorts, I do not use any weights, and this feeling of lightness underwater is amazing!

Need to direct people to this video from now on....great brief explanation!

My PADI OW instructor did not teach us to ditch all of our weights at depth. He advised to ditch them at the surface IF needed to help make sure the diver stays at the surface. He did, however, say that if for some reason we were at depth and could not swim to the surface (over weighted) to ditch SOME weight out of a pocket. Runaway accents were discussed and all the problems that could happen. Dropping weight was not a solution to get one to the surface. This was my experience but clearly not everyone has the same.

@johnkilty1419

2 ай бұрын

Most of the time when boat diving. I climb out of my BCD while in the water. Then I hand it off. I'm 63. Pride is no longer foremost.

I've already lost a weight pocket twice in my (not extensive dive career), & the assents were "Interesting", so having my weights firmly fixed is very important to me.

Maybe I missed it, but what is the negative to having ditchable weights? Nothing forces you to ditch them.

Achim, great video. Thanks for that and your suggestions and work! I agree and changed to non detachable weight since I dive my Donut and am now perfectly balanced with the weight on my back close to my spine. Keep up and greetings >Lutz

I ditch weight to throw them in the zodiac when at the surface, make boarding an inflatable easier. Ditchable weight have a nice handle on them that facilitate this. So I get to the boat, throw the weight pockets in the boat, clip my bcd to a line specific for that, remove the BCD and 1 fin kick later I'm in the boat. I could leave the weight on the BCD, but it make later retrieving a pain in the butt.

Great video. I was taught to have ditch able weighs. Switching to a back plate setup and really working on properly weighted rig. I was fighting the original training on having ditch able weighs.

@johnkilty1419

2 ай бұрын

I had a self ditching weight belt for a couple of years. Twice while surface swimming back to shore. It self released in about 30 feet of water. I learned that 300 pounds of air is just short of being enough to, retrieve weights in 30ft. If you use tank air to add buoyancy to your vest. Lol

@shawnskiver1341

2 ай бұрын

@@johnkilty1419 now that I dive mostly steel tanks I have no weights at all

Couple of thing from me Achim- firstly, diving in the UK, or any other place where you’re off a RIB, you must have removable weights in order to get back on the RIB to hand up. Next to impossible getting back on a RIB fully weighted. Secondly, I use my dry suite for buoyancy (OThree neoprene). Some consider that wrong, but if you are properly weighted, that gas you put in your suit to eliminate squeeze as you descend through atmospheres should be enough to achieve neutral buoyancy. Same applies on accent. The gas expands in the suit & is vented off for control (cuff dump for me). How divers use drysuit & wing together safely to accent, wind in SMB line, keeping an eye on your Buddy & position as well as monitor accent rate & safety stop is beyond me?

@dannyholden5361

3 жыл бұрын

I rib dive with no weight belt. I hand up my rig. Are you climbing up on the tubes with your bcd on? My drysuit is only used for squeeze. Auto dump on the shoulder for ascending, dumping from wing. And reel is easy to bring up. If you can’t dump and reel at the same time, you need more practice or go slower.

@DSO1994

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Dan: Okay, I am talking from a ‘recreational’ diving point of view here- Max 40m. So we hand up ditchable weights first, then rig. I keep 4kg fix to my rig & 6kg on a belt (I’m 6’2”90kg) I am fortunate that my drysuit fits well I have no need to add gas to the wing under water. Sure gas in wing & suit is completely doable, but just like assembling spool & smb under water over complicates things unnecessarily. Many divers I know & dive with don’t use bcd underwater either. Next dive mate perhaps try drysuit buoyancy only & if that is a struggle for you perhaps reduce weight by a kg & see what happens. Cuff dump is a step forward over shoulder for obvious reasons. Best wishes.

@sidemountsarge

3 жыл бұрын

If the shoulder dump valve is positioned correctly on the suit and configured properly + you are adequately weighted and thus don't have excess gas in the suit, then as you ascend gas vents from the dump without any/with minimal encouragement and without need to excessively roll/change position from flat trim to encourage the suit to dump more, a cuff dump doesn't offer the same. Everything else you mentioned (managing gas in a wing, maintaining situational awareness of buddies and controlling an SMB/Reel) is simple enough provided you're practiced/trained suitably. Slow and steady wins the race etc.

@dannyholden5361

3 жыл бұрын

@@DSO1994 rec or tec is irrelevant. Yes, I’m well aware of how to get into a rib. I hand up my entire rig. No need for weight belt to go up separate. My weight is built in. I was taught drysuit only. And quickly moved to wing for buoyancy (that’s what it’s for). It’s not “over complicated” to do any of those things. They are easy. Drysuit is there to keep you warm. And it dumps automatically so you don’t need to control it. If you do it’s not hard to press the button. Anyone who can’t control an ascent like that needs more practise.

@dannyholden5361

3 жыл бұрын

@@DSO1994 I’ve just re-read your original comment... do you think we stay weighted after passing kit up? The weight is attached to the bcd/wing. You just hand the whole thing up. No weight belt at all.

I think for recreational divers ditchable weights are useful for surface emergencies, especially with panicked "tourist divers" who don't do this all year round. Establishing a lot of positive buoyancy at the surface will probably solve most issues. If their cylinder is empty and they don't orally inflate the BCD, they will keep treading water and using energy to keep themselves afloat and breathe in an already stressful situation.

In my younger days. We often shore dove in places where we stood geared up on the rocks, waited the wave to pass. Then jumped in and sank to get under before the next wave. We always had too much weight. Lol

I’ve had a random dive partner look at me as if I was crazy for not having a weight belt.

thank you Achim

Once when I was at 100 ft doing my compass work. I went to inflate bcd but it leaked at dump valve. I thought of dumping some weight but since I was at anchor line I pulled my self up until pressure let my bcd inflate and I finished my dive properly.

You had me at the theme tune !!!! I’m new to diving and I’m wondering is inner space explorer your brand or a training agency? Also do you have any advice for a bee U.K. (cold water diver) re dry suit choice . I’m struggling to understand why tech use membrane and rec use neoprene. Thanks

@CoastalDevelopment

2 жыл бұрын

Hi. It's an acency: www.is-expl.com. when you scroll through the Videos you will find at least 2 Videos that explain the drysuit topic in detail. Cheers

Totally agreed again.

Um no! Ditchable weight isn't for getting to the surface. It's for staying at the surface. I've seen it numerous times where a bcd malfunctions. A long surface swim from an outer reef on a California beach dive could be disastrous without the backup option of ditching. Most dive accidents happen at the surface. Try it sometime. Swim out a few hundred yards and empty your bcd, then swim back to shore and don't use your reg. Don't tell me it's an unrealistic failure. People train for multiple failures and this would only be two: no bcd and end of dive low air. Ditch a few pounds of lead or a whole bpw rig? I tell anyone I know, I'll buy them new weight if they have to ditch for some reason. I extend that to you. I dive with 12lbs and a semi dry lest you think I overweight myself.

@haveUSPwilltravel

3 жыл бұрын

That would be three points of failure. Third being either your DSMB failed, or you failed to bring one.

@LarsDennert

2 жыл бұрын

@@haveUSPwilltravel There you go. Train for that too or losing fins as well. If you are going to need to carry lead, might as well have some that's ditchable unless you are in a cave.

@Repeatedlyreminded

2 жыл бұрын

Euhm... if your problem is, that you can't make it back to shore because you have some couple of Kilos extra on your rig, I think you have a whole different problem mate. Also: if you have a balanced rig, at the end of the dive, you will probably be (at least) neutrally buoyant. So I don't see why the surface swim would be an arguement, whatsoever. 🤷‍♂️

@LarsDennert

2 жыл бұрын

@@Repeatedlyreminded neutral underwater means negative at the surface. It's not comfortable. I've had a friend and his group left behind by a boat captain that fell asleep and drifted off. They had to swim for shore. I've hauled people back to shore and at the surface to a boat; both alive and dead. Having a balanced rig within a kilo is still inadequate at the surface with a broken bc and completely not workable if your tank is pretty full. I've seen it first hand. I've also dove without a bc at all. Yes it's doable, if nothing goes wrong.

@Repeatedlyreminded

2 жыл бұрын

@@LarsDennert Neutral at the end of the dive (safety stop) means positive at the surface... ;) sure, if all problems occur at the beginning of the dive, you might be right to some extend. But then you abort the dive before it even started. If we're talking life or death, why wouldn't you doff the BCD alltogether? 🤔

Case where you have to take off your weights: very strong down current + bladder issue (or out of air to inflate it enough). Can happens sometimes over here in Indo but quite rare.

I agree Achim.

I have never encountered an issue where I would need to ditch weights. I wonder, how many divers have dived with just a tank under their arms and a very low amount of weight? Its a very freeing experience, just cradling a tank. You can really get a feeling for how little weight you need and where you become negative etc. Then it just becomes a math game, balance the suit and mostly empty tank for your 3m stop.

Exactly, I was taught 1/3 gas planning from day one and detachable weight was not preferred option for OC recreational diving.

For my part, I saw this last year when a diver arrived about 4m after the start of the dive and without gas at that depth. The reflex was to remove the weight to be able to reach the surface. The errors were, 1) the tank was not open enough, worked fine on the boat and no more at 4m. 2) it was too low on the back and it was impossible to reach and open it.

I think depends on how much weight you need. I like the ditchable for the guys in the boat be able to lift the stuff in easier. Take it off, remove weights, hand in. For my home beach dives I got it integrated, don't take it on flights. :)

the only thing i can think of is if you are on the surface and will be floating for a long time, boat left you etc.. and you need all the buoyancy you can get as you may be out there for a long time.

I still don't understand this thing about using alloy tanks if you use a wet suit? In Australia we dive in the southern state Victoria and need a wet suit and use steel tanks because they're closer to their full weight empty. Alumium tanks become way more bouyant empty so you need more lead for your saftey stop controll. We use to use alloy tanks 30 years ago but now most people are using steel except for maybe stage and redundant air.

@fluffyhamster550

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! 👍

@maxtorque2277

3 жыл бұрын

er, the CHANGE in bouyancy is simply dependant on the mass of air in your cylinder(s), from full to empty. Ally cylinders do not change their bouyancy more than steel cylinders (of the same water volume / capacity and deltaPressure). The only difference is that ally cylinders (and some thin wall steel cylinders of around 8 to 10 l) can move from being negatively bouyant (sink) when full to positively bouyant (float) when empty. You weighting needs to be correct for the cylinder(s) you are carrying, irrespective of the material from which they are made, but the change in bouyancy over the course of your dive is irrespective of the cylinder material! ie, if you dive with an ally 80, starting at 200 bar and ending at 50 bar, then that air, a volume of about 1,665 litres which has a mass of about 2kg, is bled off from the cylinder during the dive, so you become 2kg more bouyant. You weighting needs to accomodate that. This means you should get your start of dive weighing correct (at a minimum to just be able to sink from the surface) for what every your scuba system / environment protection setup is, and then add 2kg extra mass to ensure you remain at that perfect neutral bouyancy at the end of your dive! (for some specialities such as side mounting, yes, having a tank cross the zero bouyancy line does make a practical difference to the way you might rig those tanks, but it does not affect the need to account for the absolute change in bouyancy :-) the other thing to note is that ally tanks have a greater total displaced volume when compared to steel tanks (of the same pressure rating), because although alluminium alloys have a slightly better specific strength (tensile strength/density) the characteristic of alluminium to cyclically work harden and crack means in reality a steel tank can practically /safely operate at a strain above that of an ally tank, and so each cubic unit of material in a steel tank can carry a greater load when realistic safety factors are applied. When immersed in water, the ally tank therefore is more bouyant STATICALLY, because the ratio's of density between water and alluminium is closer than that of water and steel. This is fundamentally why, for the same working capacity, an empty ally tank floats and an empty steel tank sinks.

@haveUSPwilltravel

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxtorque2277 great explanation. It blows my mind how many people misunderstand this.

tx for the insight

I can’t understand why somebody is still teaching something like this. I am diving with thick winter undergarment in a dry suit with max. 5 kg and here I probably could remove 0,5 kg without shooting up. No way to remove my weight during the dive, it is fixed on my rear part of harness. I was never in a situation where I would have to drop my weights.

@fabianbuckreus185

2 жыл бұрын

This statement means nothing without knowing your configuration. For a double 12 and a steel backplate, 5 kg is a lot of addional weight. For a single 15 and an aluminium backplate 5 kg would be awesome.

@marior.2236

2 жыл бұрын

@@fabianbuckreus185 you are Right. I am diving Sidemount with two light steel 12l tanks and eventually two additional aluminium 80 cuft stages (just for TX dives)

I agree with not having Ditchable weights. All my tech gear is setup with out ditchable weight. my teaching single tank has a weight harness that has a ditchable system built into it and is easier to get the 30lbs of lead (AL80) into than to worry about having it non ditchable. I have never needed them or felt like I might want them. That said the only time I have heard of a buddy team in my local area. (BC Canada cold water) who were out for shore dive with drysuits 30lbs +\- of lead and a steel 100 tank. this issue was totally user error. I guess they got the BPW and regs setup, tested that things worked. Shut the cylinder off as they still had to get into drysuits and such. Forgot to turn the cylinder on. Did part of a buddy check but didn't check regs as they had already done than. Got into the water and swam out with snorkels in and went to start the dive. Deflated the bcd realized that they didn't have their reg in their mouth now with an empty bcd. took the very short few breaths and realized that they didn't have their gas on. Got almost to the surface and took a mouth full of water. Thankfully their buddy was able to push them up to the surface to inflate the wing but it was close. they were 20 dives new divers out for a fun time on a sunny summer day. They shared the experience with the dive shop so others can learn from the experience. They also now do proper buddy checks each dive and when testing a reg before getting into the water look at a pressure gauge to see if it moves when taking the breaths. Neither diver thought about ditching weight and in this situation it would have solved the problem. Now on the flip side. I have seen divers loose weight pockets and rocket to the surface more often than needing to ditch the weight. Plastic clips fail at the worst time.

I think of ditchable weight sort of like training wheels. They're ok in the beginning when a diver is learning how much weight they truly need. But once you've got a solid understanding of your own buoyancy tendencies a balanced rig is preferred.

@shakuiel9669

2 жыл бұрын

So in the beginning someone should be able to ditch their weights and shoot to the surface because they're overweighted? Or should they leave their extra weights on the sea floor?

@KB-gd6fc

2 жыл бұрын

@@shakuiel9669 having some ditchable weight doesn't mean you ditch all of it in an emergency and rocket to the surface

@shakuiel9669

2 жыл бұрын

@@KB-gd6fc Of course, but in what scenario as a beginner would you ditch your weight?

@KB-gd6fc

2 жыл бұрын

@@shakuiel9669 dude, I get it.. I'm in the DIR camp myself. In a perfect world there shouldn't be a reason to ditch weight. But the reality is that %99 of new OW divers were pushed through a class in a single weekend and lack basic skill. For that reason, I wouldn't recommend new, unskilled, and uncomfortable divers diving a rig that they can't release a little weight from.

@shakuiel9669

2 жыл бұрын

@@KB-gd6fc Release a little weight from in the event of what, though? I'm not trying to attack or belittle you I just don't understand

Weighting and trim were the least discussed topic when I took OW scuba 15 years ago. Everything was dump weights and surface.

What if one's dives with 15 ltr steel and 7 mm wetsuit, approx. 7-8 kg od lead needed.. On 35 m BCD fails.. Those 7-8 kg + negative bouancy from compressed wetsuit, it would be a challenge to swim it up, right? Maybe to use SMB as backup bouancy device.. Or situation your first stage fails and you fall unconscious, how would your buddy shot you to surface tk save your life? Inflate oraly the bcd?

Fully agree.

Ok one question I dive with a 3 mm 3xl wet suit and 5 mm shoes and with an aqualung axiom bcd. In Croatia (15l steel) and in Egypt (15l Alu) I had 7 and 8 kg lead and you say that’s way to much, but it was nearly impossible to sink with 1 kg less, so what went wrong? And the second thing if you try to climb on a zodiac speedboat with weight, it can get heavy, therefore the ditchable was not bad.

During winter I'm using a bit thicker undergarments. I kinda need 2kg extra. Yeah I could buy a tail weight or something like it but still have a weight belt laying around. I don't think there is something wrong with it. Just don't use it as disposable weight but just as weights.

@Yggdrasil42

Жыл бұрын

You can still accidentally lose it, which happens more often than I like.

@carlokop556

Жыл бұрын

@Yggdrasil42 I'm not talking about integrated weights in a bcd. Those are very easy to lose. But just a 2kg weight belt underneath your harness. If you manage to lose that, you need to stop diving. But a tail weights or a v weights between your tanks might be better.

Agree- does more harm than good. Had a weight belt unbuckle by accident a few times ! I think the only benefit would be at the surface after pretty catastrophic failures of all buoyancy devices while still carrying a lot of gas, when you’d probably ditch the whole lot anyway.

With the greatest respect I’ve got to disagree here. I totally agree that every diver should be weighted correctly so that they can just hold a shallow stop with an almost empty cylinder(s) - dive with a ‘balanced’ rig. As such I believe that almost all the weight carried should be fixed, with the exception of a small amount of weight that represents the mass of the gas being carried, which should be ditchable. This way if a balanced rig diver experiences a failure at the beginning but deepest part of the dive the small weight can be jettisoned to bring the rig into balance and allow a controlled safe ascent. If the failure occurs later in the dive when higher gas volumes have been consumed the rig would be balanced with the weight in place and a controlled ascent could be made without removing weight.

@colmdoherty49

2 жыл бұрын

But isn’t the diver balanced and in trim from the beginning so at any time given a failure the diver is Neutrally buoyant so will only need to dump gas on his forced assent no need to dump weight

Question, as someone who teaches with an agency who requires ditchable weights: what do you teach to establish buoyancy in rescue settings? Whether that be divers panicking on the surface and failing to establish positive buoyancy or with unresponsive divers and getting them out of their gear and out of the water?

@Yggdrasil42

Жыл бұрын

You cut off their harness, which has the weight pockets integrated into it. The line cutter on my wrist makes short work of webbing.

I have ditched half of my weights once. Or rather the right term would be to say that I lost them... This was in shallow waters at the end of the dive, one of my weight pockets became loose and fell out. I did not actually notice that until the next dive... I did have some trim problems, but didnt make much of that. Seems like I was horribly overweight.

@beluil

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I have seen plenty of lost weight pockets on the bottom of our local quarry😅 Most common way of ditching is by accident 😳

@CWies

3 жыл бұрын

@@beluil luckily I got that one back, we went there a couple of days later. That's one of the main reasons why I'm thinking of switching to a backplate wing setup... there is no flimsy plastic clip holding the weights in place...

@beluil

3 жыл бұрын

@@CWies i went through regular bcd, sidemount and backplate. You just can't go wrong with simple backplate/wing setup. One think to remember though... single wing for single tank, double wing for twins. 😉

i ditch a weight any time i go through a no-mount restriction and have to take a tank off. Of course i immediately put the weight back on once i’m through because being under water without enough gas is an unpleasant feeling lol.

Amen.

What about ditching weights at the surface? I always thought in an buoyancy failure emergency I would swim ascend and ditch my weights at the surface to establish strong positive buoyancy. What do you think about this? Can your balanced rig result in a situation where it is hard to stay afloat without something to ditch?

LOVE YOUR VIDEOS !!! this subject has been discussed so many times and yet, like everything else in scuba, there are those for it, and those against it. my first thought is always.....why is it a problem to carry ditchable weight? even if you never have to ditch, it can be secured properly so not to accidently fall out. so what is the harm in having it ? don't many of you carry a cutting tool to be bale to cut off your bp/w if needed ? don't many of you install a release buckle on the webbing to be able to quickly get out of it ? or is that just in case of entanglement ? i do not think an oog situation is reason to ditch. 1 - you should have a buddy. 2 - if solo diving you should have a redundant gas supply. however a loss of buoyancy "could be" a reason to ditch at least some of your weight. not everyone dives a dry suit. and not every wet suit diver uses allum tanks. many cold water divers use wet suits. some cold water divers that do use dry suits, use neoprene dry suits. and most cold water divers do use steel tanks. so at depth, if one of these divers were to loose the ability to hold gas in their bcd, they may need to ditch in order to reach the surface as they will be extremely negative from the compression of the neoprene material (wet or dry). another situation to consider is ditching after the diver has reached the surface. even if you are properly weighted and can perform an ESA, how well will you be able to maintain buoyancy at the surface ? ditching ensures you will remain there. just a few thoughts. KEEP THOSE VIDEOS COMING !!!

@JeremyUSA

Жыл бұрын

what rick said. I'm trying to figure out what weights to build so I'd very much like to see a rebuttal to this. I dive a 7mm Bare Reactive, with a 7mm hoodie. I'm extremely buoyant. I need at least 18 lbs to sink, with a steel 120. At depth, I don't think I could fin up.

@Yggdrasil42

Жыл бұрын

@@JeremyUSA If I had to wear that thick a wetsuit I'd switxh to a drysuit. Not only is it more comfortable and warm, you can use it to fine tune your trim and last but not least: it provides redundant buoyancy. The problem with ditchable weights imho is that it leads to an uncontrolled ascent which often results in DCS. Is that really a good solution? Also, I've never met anyone who needed to ditch weight while I've met at least six people who've accidentally lost weights during a dive. Statistically it's much more likely to harm you than save you.

Only time I’ve ever ditched eight was in open water certification class…

I have a balanced rig, and I can ditch 5 lb. I would only do this if my wing totally failed at the beginning of the dive when I still have a bunch of air. With this adjustment, I can easily swim up from depth and be neutral at the safety stop. What is utter nonsense is people who are intentionally overweighted... because they were taught they must have something to ditch. I used to think this was internet myth, until I came across someone under that misconception.

nice

Ditchable weights are not about making a buoyant ascent. Once on the surface, an exhausted or distressed diver can drop weights and stay comfortably at the surface. I dropped lead on a night dive with a failed BCD and a full 120 steel tank. With a long swim in the dark, removing weight was the easiest, safest solution to minimize risk. Ditching weight at the surface is probably the most certain, fool proof method of staying at the surface. You can keep all your available gas, you reduce the amount of fatigue if you are going to have a long swim or have to wait for a pick up.

What if I'm using a bcd that doesn't have integral weights and have to use a weight belt.

Somewhere there on KZread there is a gal demonstrating that she could not kick up from depth in heavy neoprene with complete BCD failure w/o either getting help, adding redundant buoyancy or ... ditching weight. I don’t ever see myself ditching weight in order to ascend and much prefer kicking up and always have a dsmb with relief valve on me (for use as dsmb or as redundant flotation if all else fails). Sometimes I even dive in a drysuit...BUT, BUT, to date I always had at least some of my weight in pouches (2 on tank band, 2 on belt of rig) Don’t really need that removability in a lake or such but the pouches make trimming out in various gear easy. But in the sea, I just seem to take mental comfort in knowing that I could float comfortably and higher on the surface if I ended up having to float for a lengthy time for some reason (that boat being there or not is not under my control...) and my flotation failed w/o having to ditch my rig. Is it necessary? No I could ditch the rig or I could hold onto the DSMB (or ride it) for comfort, but still if wind picks up and wave’s get high and I’ll be there a while I prefer to comfortably float such that I still can wave that DSMB, dig out and work a radio or PLB, see a little further, rest a little... allow myself a medical episode (non planned, non aware of, but then I also plan on bopping around for hours or longer on in the ocean...), being exhausted, struggling with the onset of hypothermia, almost, but not yet dying of thirst... So, Achim, in your mind is, if so indicated by an f-upped situation (it likely would be that and not unfortunate) the ditching of weight on the surface also a big NO-NO, if so, why?

I often find weight pouches on the bottom that must have self ejected. I always have the thought... that must have been exciting. ... jackets and mickey mouse weight systems are an issue for more new divers than people talk about? It’s pretty hard for new divers to get air out of many popular jackets so they add ever more lead. Also the ditch systems are all or nothing. Like the one with a string like a lawn mower pull start

not a very experienced diver. I prefer having ditchable weights just for the shit happens situation especialy when on the surface. I keep a few weights in my bcd pockets and the rest on the weight belt. Even if I loose the weight belt I won't shoot up. what I don't like is integrated weight pockets in the bcd. heard of too many people loosing them on a dive. maybe my opinion will change with more experience but at the moment I will stick to the weight belt

i think ditchable weight is just another failure point. if you are correctly weighted than you should be able to swim up by yourself in case of BCD failure. Ditchable weight means too much weight.

As long as there are divers, there will be agencies that teach outdated techniques. The club type formats whilst are excellent for getting people in the water have way too many instructors at the top who are ignorant to the whole concept of teaching whilst neutral from the outset. In fact it’s recommended by most to not dive in a drysuit until you reach a certain grade; this means that novice divers are encouraged to dive here in thick semi-dry wetsuits (>7mm) with steel tanks to depths of 30m. Absolute madness.

@Litehamer

2 жыл бұрын

Hi mate . I’m said new diver , trained with PADI saw some interesting things , now joined a U.K. club and trying to get into dry suit diving . I don’t fully understand what you said re tanks, depth and neoprene semi dry. Can you explain or point me in the direction of info ? Thanks either way

@SuperScubaTim

2 жыл бұрын

@@Litehamer good stuff on joining a club. With steel tanks and thicker wetsuits (common in Ireland/UK for beginners) it is literally impossible to be weighted correctly at any depth. Your wetsuit compresses and becomes less buoyant whilst the lead you wear remains constant meaning you will be excessively over weighted at depths below 20m. This isn’t a problem with drysuits as their volume remains pretty constant. Look up diving a balanced rig or go get some training with UTD or GUE where you will learn right from the start!!

@SuperScubaTim

2 жыл бұрын

@@Litehamer kzread.info/dash/bejne/foqJtpdylZm-caQ.html

Flooded drysuit? Surface emergency? Just asking...

@CoastalDevelopment

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/m2WhypN9hKavidY.html

@roelofcoertze9453

Жыл бұрын

@@CoastalDevelopment I agree wholeheartedly with all of your videos and views on how scuba diving should be conducted. Having said this I think the way in which you are portraying this information is difficult for admirers to follow. You could have taken the time to explain the question that I had in an easy to understand way. Instead, the impression that I am getting is one of arrogant "you're stupid and should have watched MY videos". I think it is quite naive to expect recreational divers to calculate exact weighting before every dive. They probably just go based on the resort's recommendation and probably don't even care. Again, I agree, this is wrong. But, what then? What if a diver is over weighted accidentally underwater? Diver's problem. But those properly weighted trying to save him/her will become theirs. In this scenario would you not want ditch-able weights? Honestly, this comes from a position of respect, but it seems like you don't have patience for anyone who is not you. I watched your appearance on DiveTalk and I could see a version which was really pleasant and a mirror of your existing videos (which helped me grow as a diver). I just wished that more of that patience and compassion was reflected in your current videos.

@TheyCallMeTouchpad

Жыл бұрын

@@roelofcoertze9453 If you decide to not care at all about being properly weighted, then being able to ditch the 10kg of excess weight you brought along might be a good idea. However, if you actually put the slightest effort into diving properly, then ditchable weights shouldn't be necessary at all. It's a crutch, nothing more.

You need ditchable weights for safety in the following scenario: 7mm wetsuit at 100ft, and BCD failure. If your rig is balanced at 15 ft, at 100ft you may be 17lb negatively buoyant under this scenario on an empty tank, or 22lb negatively buoyant on a full tank, because of the compression of the wetsuit. This is more than most people can handle to push to the surface. Please don't recommend unsafe advice. The only way to figure out how much ditchable weight you need is to actually go to 100ft and test if you can push your rig up with an empty BCD, and remove as much weight as you need there to be able to push it up.

@gernotjenisch4152

3 жыл бұрын

yeah that's exactly the thing to do. dry suitI needed about 11.5 kg lead with my gear, maybe i can reduce to 10 kg lead (no backplate) when getting better. But that's it! Not freezing in the 7mm was great (all my Buddys were freezing) and a dry suit will come perhaps, but not in the next years. So when i change to a vacation backplate-setup, I'm thinking about a backplate -- (DIR and so on... of course, afraid of the long hose and the comments of the locals, by the way :) joking) i will use some kilos ditchable... I'm an Atheist and i also don't like religion with diving. Don't misunderstand me: i really like the "Inner space explorers" in general, and provoking people to get them think, it's great, but here: isn't that a bit to much, a bit over the edge? there are also Tekies with a litte different view of the topic dichable weights, and i don't think every one of them is clueless: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fX6Cj9uspcXVlaw.html Gespannt auf die comments............. Let's fetz!

i think ditchable weights is good for people who are not to smart and cheated on their training and shouldn't have passed the class and there are plenty of them around so they serve a purpose for some people in recreational diving...

fast way up = danger

There are many reasons to disagree here. The main issue is you start with "if all these things don't go wrong then you should not need to drop weights" but that's the points, things DO happen and they only need to happen once. Your 2,000 dives without diving weight don't really carry forward. 1. 52% of ALL scuba fatalities occur because of buoyancy issues. 2. 40% of the divers who died were found to be grossly over-weighted at the surface. (Dropping weight would have helped them) 3. In a survey on buddy diver fatality it was found that regardless of who was first to be low on air, the over-weighted diver was six times more likely to die. So on your point about "If yo uare not overweighted you will be fine", OK but it DOES happen anyway. 4. 90% of the fatalities did not ditch their weights. Those on the surface had to swim towards safety carrying several kilograms of unnecessary weight, which made staying at the surface more difficult than it needed to be. In some fatalities the weights had been released but became entangled. In other cases, the belt could not be released because it was worn under other equipment, or the release buckle was inaccessible because a weight had slid over it, or it had rotated to the back of the body. Other fatalities have occurred where release mechanisms have failed. So those that were not ove-weighted but hit some emergency that required long surface time, died simply from inability or failure to ditch weights.

I could imagine a theoretical scenario where a cylinder or set of doubles gets pinned in a wreck but you could still cut yourself free. In this case you would still have a deco obligation you could complete in a team sharing gas if you would only have a weight belt to compensate for drysuit and undersuit buoyancy.

A good family friend of ours was diving the galapagos islands and got blown off a reef/sucked into a washin machine, within seconds she was 15m deeper although she fully inflated her bcd. As a last resort she dropped her weights and managed to ascend. At least thats the story i was told 😃 in this case ditchable weights probably saved her, but i agree, in normal diving for example in german lakes this is definitely not needed

@timgosling6189

3 жыл бұрын

I can't comment authoritatively as I wasn't there in the vortex but the average jacket style BCD has at least 20kg of lift available and at say 20m I would only be using a small fraction of that to stay neutral. In that area, in a wet suit I'd likely have 4kg of weight and it would have to be a very severe down-current to need that extra amount of lift. Who knows? The single cyl wing I dive is only 30lb/14kg and has always been more than adequate in reef currents.

@simon1234567ful

3 жыл бұрын

@@timgosling6189 i wasnt there on the dive either, im just reporting. But have you seen galapagos currents? There are spots where the bubbles you exahle go down, not up. And thats just "normal" currents there on some reefs.

@timgosling6189

3 жыл бұрын

@@simon1234567ful yes I've seen that sort of thing, and it's not pleasant!

@CUCABURRAAustralia

3 жыл бұрын

In Maldives we also have some "washing machines" here and there, but not as strong as you described. Perhaps, the local diveguides should keep the divers away from those areas, if it's possible?

@simon1234567ful

3 жыл бұрын

@@CUCABURRAAustralia this doesnt have to become a discussion, i described the incident that happen 20 years ago. Thats it

Ditchable weights are beneficial at the surface, to deal with a distressed diver or equipment failure. Not commenting on this aspect is really bad.

@CoastalDevelopment

2 жыл бұрын

No a proper weighted diver is not heavy on the surface and easy to handle. The concept is the same as under water. The need to ditching weight means the diver has too much weigt. Not understanding this is really bad :)

go home PADI

There is this incident: www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/suit-filed-in-case-of-girl-dead-boy-injured-at-glacier-national-park.607756/ Not having ditch-able ballast is not the "but for" cause but it did contribute. Also not your target audience. 1 About a green as a diver can be. 2. Grossly over weighted . 3. Gross negligence by the instructors / operators.

@TheyCallMeTouchpad

Жыл бұрын

Putting that much weight on a diving student is insane, ditchable or not.