Very interesting. Really enjoyed this.

@StarFirewisp2

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!!

I think an obvious thing to point out is the "Dna aborbtion/fusion" is directly portrayed in the Boss Rush before the final boss with all the Lavos' spawns mimicing creatures you fought.

As somebody who hasn't touched or known shit on Chrono Cross, I feel like the only way you could do a sequel to Trigger would be to eradicate the rest of Lavos' species to make sure this creature could never infect another planet. I love Lavos, it's my favorite force of nature antagonist in fiction partially because of it's lore and how it's written to be 2 steps ahead of the protagonists' plan to kill it whenever they time travel. Thanks for making this evolution and timeline explanation.

This is quite interesting. Nice job. I hope you'll do a theory of how the Masamune came from Guardia to El Nido in between CT and CC.

@StarFirewisp2

2 жыл бұрын

That’s on the list for sure! And thank you for watching!

10:05 to add more to this theory, its very interesting the in his final form, lavos is divided into 3 parts, just like chrono and crew who travel through time in a trio

@gloving4hire

Ай бұрын

Like all the trifecta

Eggs-cellent!

It feels that Lavos is basically science, it could be cool if he was sent by some magical being like a god to destroy planets for reasons. Good job anyways.

Thank you for the dedication to make this video. Not many people give to much thought about Lavos' evolutionary biology and symbiosis with humans/the world. As well on how it connects to ther story and themes. Great job! I agree completely with Lavos having to mimic the party's abilities to fulfull his final merging with the world's dna. I have my own theories on Lavos, is it okay if I post them here?

@StarFirewisp2

2 жыл бұрын

Sure! Go for it! And thanks for watching!

@BinaryDood

2 жыл бұрын

​@@StarFirewisp2 Thank you! Because I don't have much time (I'm an animator with no weekends) I will format my theories spliced from other place I posted. (also, english is not my first language, sorry in advance!) The way I see it, Trigger is Free Will and Cross is Determinism. And in the good ending of CC you achieve Compatibilism. Lavos is the big gestalt that puts every seperate element from the game (themes, music, gameplay, timelines) together. "Humanity is the offspring of Lavos" About half of the story of Chrono Cross I sort of predicted while playing Chrono Trigger for the first time, having 0 idea of Cross's story. This is because CC is a very thematic game. Its brush strokes are far more important than its plot points. And Lavos' biology was the key to understanding everything about CT's structure and story, and IMO, in my first reading, I considered the ENTITY to be the hypothetical Lavos' final form, had Chrono not stopped it and it went on other further planets with the cycle of creating and destroying civilizations for it's own end of absorbing their useful data and energy until they become useless: as it is in it's nature. A God furnace, for the perfect being. That being would lie beyond time alltogether. However, Schalla, falling into it in an eternal instant, became part of a dilema over the entire fate of the universe and humanity alongside it. Both Kid and the Frozen Flame are the respectful avatars for Schalla and Lavos. They were put into the world to be apart of its collective causality with the purpose of seeing who "wins" the "debate", what the answer is to the argument: "Are humans, not being apart of the planet, fit to be live among the ecossystem when, in their inevitable progress, they can only hurt it?". Schalla (a human): Yes Lavos ("creator" of humans): No "The Schala/Lavos fusion is The Entity" (or the one in tune with the Planet's will) "It all began with Nu. It all will end with Nu." It is a Nu that tells you in Zeal a sequence of elements to open sealed doors. Likely the sequence on the chrono cross is a much ancient melody like the Nu's themselves, the same type of elemental sequence they gave you in Trigger but much more ancient and important (it being longer, using more elements, being somewhat of a proof). The song is called "Life", borrowing leitmotif from Schalla's theme, I assume it is the first melody of the universe, once the first being started being able to understand things like rythm, awareness of play in sound. Humanity, if being able to understand this, and not merely paving their way taking everything for granted acording to their will, would be in agreement with Schalla's argument. Understanding the melody is being in tune with the idea that everyone is apart of the "golden chain" Schalla speaks off, that your past is not the sole writer of your destiny (planets are eggs, Lavos is the seed, impregnating them. But you are not merely your DNA). By merely killing the Devourer of Time AKA The Entity, who has orchestrated everything in this game of destiny for finding an answer to the dilema, you are agreeing with Lavos on humanity's destructive nature, us being incompatible with the broad homeostasis of the planet due to having originated from an outer place. Lavos is the "other" to all the things in the world, yet it seeded the fate of those not meant to be (us). Take note on when Lavos decides to rise from the earth being at around the same time AI reached sentience and power. Likely humanity were not the apex leaders of the world and would serve no more use to Lavos, hence passing the torch to Mother Brain and eliminating Humanity, the inbetweners of the Natural and the Artificial. Ending the Entity's life at the Darkness Beyond time would be in agreement to Lavos' will, which would also be a death wish from it's part, as having attained its perfect form and existing outside of time, it has been living for an eternity, and having served its purpose there would be no reason to exist the moment its point is proven. And since it is outside of time, an eternity is also an instant, so while Schalla and Lavos were waiting infinitely for your answer to their question, they also got their answer immedeatily as they became intemporal. I think it also important to note that in Chrono Cross, using THE chrono cross, you have to agree with Lavos' dissonant tones so you can use his own elements to finish the final melody of LIFE, which play's Schala's leitomotif. If Lavos is deterministic, and humans have to prove their own free-will to free Schala, then the combination of these too (your melody only being finished with Lavos' dissonance) could be the agreement of both: Compatibilism. Considering Schala awakes and your journey is undone so a "real" free one may start. You still aren't free from factors outside your control, which is most of them, but you embrace your own journey, and that all freedom is an illusion that every one has to fulfill on their own (the golden chain). Hence Crono is a child of Will, everything you/he does in Trigger is a direct forward action that stems from the natural way you play a game. Crono would be dead before any of the events he decides to take part in would affect him, but he is in tune with the player who has the will to see things through. Therefore you completely change the world, altering the future by altering the past, you are a sculptor and the planet is the mold. But Serge is a child of Fate, everything he takes part in ends up being and bigger game than the one he thought he was playing, every single one of his moves a subversion from a higher party trying to shape the world as their own clay (Balthazar, Lynx, Chronopolis, Dinopolis...). You, Serge, are a piece, not the player. Not even an owner of his own life, the game makes it clear, the first meaningful thing he encounters is the notice of his own death, in the past, in Another World. When you use the song of the elements in the the Darkness beyond Time, you/Serge are crossing from this deterministic point of view to a compatibilist one. Crossing from Lavos' argument to Schalla, from fate to will. Because the game made it clear that actions have consequences. What you did in Trigger was great from your point of view, but imagine all the futures that never happened. By putting one piece in motion, you make others fall, and even you were a piece at some point yourself. You can't disprove determinism, Lavos is correct, Fate is correct, Balthazar is correct, Miguel is correct. But you can choose at every instance to take the "other" turn. Kid developted her own personality, being a child of the world, despite being a vehicle for another being's purpose. The Frozen Flame stayed put. Compatibilism says that though determinism being very real, that is something we cannot consider every aspect of at our every moment, so the very illusion of Free Will ends up being "real". That seems to be the only way for the destructive progress of humanity to coexist with the ancient nature, a fleeting hope. But that is up to the players themselves, should you go through the labor of finding and figuring out the chrono cross. If you do not, you are on Lavos' argument's linear path. I should also mention that many games around this time from Square, in their golden age, share many themes and simmilairaties. You probably knows the gist: Secret of Mana was meant to be Chrono Trigger, Chrono Trigger was meant to be Final Fantasy 7. and FF7 was meant to be Xenogears (or vice-versa idk). Xenogears and Chrono Cross came around about the same time. There is in both games a room with Save Points being manufactured by a higher civilization/facility. They have the same meaning but different particularities in each game. In Xenogears is because Solaris consider the people of the planet of being sheep to be herded, and everyone in the world has a limiter to their abilities and their data is collected to be managed. In Chrono Cross is the same thing for for Chronopolis, that through Fate supervises every single piece moving in this elaborate game of theirs. I bring this up because in Xenogears every human being is "incomplete", they are originally apart of Deus but were divided from the main body to develop to a "complete" state so they can be whole again with their creator. This to me sounds like Lavos allowing humanity to exist and develop in order to be harvested. In Xenogears this is used as a metaphor: That God created angels to have only one wing so that in their incomplete state they had to help each other to fly by holding hands. This is in tune with Xenogear's fractured experience. One separated from their past and their present, and even their psyche. I wonder if that metaphor can be used in Chrono Cross as well as the other shared themes. Humanity incomplete, lacking full wings to fly on their own, forever the progeny of Lavos and acting destructively as such. This sort of duality is what I like in older Square games. Even Final Fantasy 7 has a better ecological and worldy message than most things its type tend to have.

@BinaryDood

2 жыл бұрын

"Lavos' hypothetical final form is the Player" (old, before Kato's recent interviews, but might having interesting thoughts) Lavos is an interplanetary parasite that entered the planet in 65 000 000 Bc and began absorbing the life energy of the planet since. Everything began with Lavos, for he destroyed the reptites and made it so humans could become the dominant species. Then humans extracted magic from Lavos and created an age of enlightenment (instead of using the elements like in Cross). Lavos made progress possible. In the far future, once Lavos wakes up, humanity lost its dominance and the planet was destroyed. Everything ended with Lavos. Lavos is the Alpha and the Omega of Earth in Chrono Trigger. However it doesn't end there. Characters like Frog and Robo before the final battle claim that he has been absorbing the DNA of every single living thing as well: this is why he is able to summon the powers of the previous bosses, copying it's abilities. It is also why he had an humanoid shape for the final boss, for the dominant species on Earth were humans. It is important to note that Lavos is the not the Humanoid form he spawns from collecting all the energy of the planet and the species data, but the small core that lies by it's side. Lavos made humans the dominant species on the planet so HIMSELF he could create the perfect lifeform, or "GOD". However it is naturally always incomplete, as even with all beings from the planet the combined DNA still isn't infinite. This is why he spawns smaller Lavos that would one day go on their own quest to create the perfect lifeform within themselves when the time comes to leave into other planets and harvest their energy as well. In other words, the purpose of Lavos species is going on a neverending quest to create God within it's shell. That is pretty cool. But since Chrono Trigger is really good at telling a lot while saying very little, it gets deeper. This is a long running thing within the Chrono Trigger fanbase, but in the Robo and Lucca sidequest where you bring the forest back to life, they begin talking about an "Entity". This is speculated to be either God or the Player or the Planet, or maybe they are one in the same, and are responsible for the time warping. If I were to explain how Lavos was able to warp time and make the Black Omen exist beyond time (in all time periods), then I would estimate, in a way, Lavos is the player, or Lavos "wants" to become the player. "It is like someone wants to revisit this events and memories, from different times." is the gist of what Robo tells the party after thinking long for 400 years. For this reason, since Lavos is the beginning and the end of Chrono Trigger's world, I feel that he is an analogy for the player to make the spark, to catalyze the events for a big epic adventure. After all, Chrono, Lucca and Marle never needed to save the world, they were at a perfectly safe time period. Unlike other RPGs, in Chrono Trigger they decided to save a future that they would never live in, there never was any imminent danger to them. That is a catalyst was needed, Lavos: the Player. I think this reflects in the nostalgic somber music in his first form that plays after the triumphant main theme of the game once you have defeated the boss rush gauntlet, as if Lavos was awaiting the moment of the end, the climax when he is finally fighting the heroes he summoned in the first place. In Lavos second form this is further reinforced by playing the main world theme and distorting it for the sake of contrasting the weight Lavos has in the world and in the narrative: the more upbeat parts of World Revolution are the terrifying last showdown for the heroes, whilst the motif of the world theme is Lavos/Player reminiscing on the adventure. The third form is the only one which warps through time, and the "core" is not what you expect, for even the great supreme form Lavos has created in the supposed 65 million years is but another puppet in the traditional RPG narrative, the final boss, while the creator lies by it's side. The scream incorporated in that song could serve as the reminder of the animalistic Lavos contrasted with his newly acquired humanoid form. And of course, the final screen of the Earth in the game, now with the final variation of the main motif of the game, is the same shot you seen in the bad ending of the game where you loose aganist Lavos and the world is laid waste upon. Contrasts of the two outcomes possible that Lavos/Player made possible from it's initial spark. This all naturally lends together with the Newgame+ so that you can face Lavos at any time to see what would happen if certain events in the story hadn't happened yet or if you did something different. Still to this I have to see a better mix of gameplay and story so thematically intertwined. You can even see an ending where the Reptites were never extinct and remained the dominant species on the planet. It is very much so why Lavos and the Black Omen became beyond time. The Entity was recalling memories, all coexisting with themselves, like Robo says, and the result is the time distortion portals, altering history/story. Zeal tapping into those powers through the Frozen Flame (by it's name, a contradiction) is like a character wanting to surpass the story their in. For if the player and Lavos are opposite sides of the same coin, then Zeal, with the Black Omen, tried to land the coin on its side. But that is why the Black Omen is in every time zone, by tapping into that power, of someone beyond the story you are in, grants you the ability to alter the very laws of the universe . Becoming apart of that collection of memories the Entity is recalling. After all, "dreaming" is a big theme in Zeal, as you can see from talking to the NPCs there, acting as if dreaming is a superior state of being. The extra super boss in the DS version and Chrono Cross and Radical Dreamers go into that theme of "dreaming", like something Schalla "dreamt" whilst stuck in the Darkness Beyond Time. I think the devs realised how intertwined the gameplay and story was, and seeing what kind of narrative spark Lavos was, "the Entity" was made a thematic blanket the whole game is on. The yearning for an adventure like no other but when you go with the destiny of the prophecy you yourself prophesied. The power of the "Entity" can be seen directly once, in the game. When the "chrono trigger" is used to save Crono, the proxy character for the player. One thing that alters the very laws of the universe so one event could happen.

@BinaryDood

2 жыл бұрын

(TLDR) (well... somewhat) Chrono Trigger is about free will, your characters could live life and nothing would affect them, it is your will as a player that molds every outcome of the world by using those characters as proxy. Chrono Cross is about determinism. Fate is everywhere. Game starts with your character dead already. Everything you do, every outcome has been part of a bigger game by bigger entities. Even the savepoints, every npc, the world map, etc are part of that fate that you cant break. Until the final moments of the good ending (should you be able to find the sequence that males the melody of "LIFE") and you break those two notions apart from the eternal dilemma of Schalla/Lavos = The Entity (spoken in Chrono Trigger) and achieve "Compatibilism" as a midterm(edited) after all, by defeating Lavos humanity proves being its offspring by following the destroyer's path layed out for them that is why I defend the theory that the NU's were the universe's first living beings "All came from NU and all ends with NU" relatively simple beings, but in that simplicity they are far more attuned to the universe in Zeal a Nu gives you a sequence to open a secret door. Wind, Fire and Water in a specific sequence Chrono Cross's sequence is very much like that one, much older. The oldest in fact. And that it follow's Schalla's leitmotif, and as she lives beyond time itself, it could have been layed there since the beginning of time just so humanity could one day find it to free her and prove that they can remove their shackles from fate. it is a very conceptual game Lavos/The Frozen Flame is very red The world, the ocean, is very blue that is a necessary opposition. It communicates Blue as being something inner and Red being something outer. like Serge and Kid Time fixes itself. Schalla didnt forget anything, what you are saying assumes a linearity of time that Chrono Cross does not. Like I said, it was very conceptual. Schalla took everything that happened as she as wished since the beginning of time. Because those experiences were also predetermined you could say only after the game is over do they truly have freedom to chose. Hence that would be the "real" journey, and yours was just the awakening of Schalla. Considering Trigger was already a "real journey" itself, I'm fine with this deconstruction. Not all stories need to be a consequential triumph of our main characters. It doesn't have to last forever. It is kind of like the End of Evangelion. Humanity is gone, but lives on through Unit 1. Here, the humanity that was gone from the timeline we played lives on through Schalla. Chrono Trigger offers far more freedom of choice than any JRPG at the time, and still more than most nowadays. Your characters come from a place were the threat on the world would not affect them so essentially their will is the same as yours, the player, "To watch events unfold", like Robo/Luca speculated in the campfire scene, labeling it "The Entity". Just because it isn't put directly into question with its anthesis it doesn't mean it is not about it. Even calling it "meta-textual" doesn't cover it because games are so much more than the script and even the aparent linearity of the story. Every part of Trigger is about choice, and thatnthe determined fate you contrast that "choice" with is the Day of Lavos in 1999. if anything, just on the many different ways you can defeat Lavos and the Black Omen (as well) showcases the multitude of possiblities on how any particular players can defeat "fate" in any particular way... but the Dragons themselves are something else entirely their basis for "humanity the virus" ends up not being present physically in the world as you see it but in potentiality, as they know what humanity truly is, and the multiple possible futures awaiting the Dragons are antithesis to Lavos as they were supposed to be the natural evolution of the planet's lifeforms into sentience, and humanity being alive only because of the parasitic "Lavos the Stranger" (to the planet, thus deviating the evolutionary line) AKA its "offspring". Given this humanity's sole existence is the opposite to the normal flow of the planet had it not been present. It is not so much an environmental message but a concern with one of main high parties of the game against the other, when both are competing for the existence of their own timelines. It comes across as environmentalist but really it is weaponized by the Dragons/Reptites to ward off against what they consider a threat. The game at its very end doesn't take a main stance on either side. Only the chrono cross allows to cut ties with Lavos by playing the ancestral melody of life to prove that humanity need not be parasitic, etc etc. Imagine that (example) the Cetra knew that Midgar from FF7 was going to exist, just by knowing what and how humans are (since the Dragons are entities from a future that was lost, it helps). They would likely do everything in their power to stop it before it had a chance.

@BinaryDood

2 жыл бұрын

old response to my comments: Eutimio Longoria Há 2 meses (editado) I like how you pointed out humans being the “step children” of Lavos. Humanity originated from Nature but coming into Lavos changed humans fundamentally (like being able to use Magic instead of Elements). Lavos destructive tendencies thus carried over to humans. After playing through Cross it made some aspects of Trigger stand out. Like the Ice Age. I interpret that as the planet trying to cause the extinction of humanity. And that Lavos arose not solely because of the Mammon Machine but because it interfered to keep humanity alive because they had not fulfilled their purpose yet. Notice how the weather becomes milder after Lavos arises.

V interesting thank you

Level sounds more like a Celestial from the Marvel Universe inhabits the planet until it's time for him to suck it dry and repeat the process mean time Life happens up until that point

How come you don't talk about his thematic aspects and literary references? Those are a lot more interesting in-game than his biological composition.

me and my friend always thought Lavos' cry sounded like a broken garbage disposal lmaoo!! RRRRGLGLGRLRLRGLGRRLRLGLGGLGLLGRRRROOOoooww!!!

@StarFirewisp2

2 жыл бұрын

Got a fork stuck down in there 🤣

@SierraGustafson

2 жыл бұрын

I always thought that his roar sounded like a record player trying to read a REALLY scratched-up record.

The music is way too loud and music in general is bothersome