Disgusting Secrets of Real Hardware: HOPE 2020 Voidst-Archives
Ғылым және технология
Sloppy design, stupid code, and boneheaded security lurk in anything with a circuit board. Here's what to look for.
I originally gave this talk at HOPE 2020! I was supposed to finally, after all these years, finally get up in front of the heftiest hackers in the East Coast, but then the rona happened. I'm not salty. You're salty.
Brooke and I are driving to Colorado and redeploying the workshop this week, so we can't shoot a new video. Instead, enjoy this vintage selection from the Voidstar cellar. Mmmyes.
See you in Colorado - and also in the future!
Пікірлер: 324
"I'm a prototype developer. My job is to implement the security flaws". Quality content right there!
@billybbob18
Жыл бұрын
I was able to convert a software-bricked 400$ oscilloscope to an 800$ oscilloscope with a few tel-net commands over wifi.
It feels oddly reassuring that this video deeply resonates with me and my first frustrations as an engineer almost 20 years ago.
@PTFVBVB
3 жыл бұрын
The more things change the more they stay the same
@ZackFreedman
3 жыл бұрын
Engineering might be different nowadays, but engineers aren't
@grindfi
Жыл бұрын
Same, though im 20 years behind
Working in software has taught me the same thing - every time news breaks of some major company or government agency being hacked because someone left the remote access credentials on a post-it or whatever, I just think "there but for the grace of God go I". Hence why I want to vote on paper.
@GnuReligion
3 жыл бұрын
Was looking for a good place to drop a schnide recommendation that Zach take apart a Dominion Voting Machine.
@hootsmin
3 жыл бұрын
We vote on paper in my country, they provide a pencil for filling it out. I would usually bring my own permenant pen of course, though I don't vote for politicians because they are scum, I only really vote in the occasional referendum. "It matters not who makes the votes, it matters only who counts the votes" - Uncle Joe Stalin.
@Ayce47
3 жыл бұрын
The future of digitalization is very very scary. "Delete him" will be a fucked up reality,
@OtherDalfite
3 жыл бұрын
So glad I'm not the only EE that also believes this. Anyone who trusts software absolutely is a complete fool!
@GnuReligion
3 жыл бұрын
@@OtherDalfite "If architects designed buildings, the way developers wrote programs, the first woodpecker that came along, would ..."
This removed so much of the ambiguity from an incredibly technical field, thank you man!
I enjoyed this more than your normal recent videos. Thanks so much for putting this together.
I can neither confirm nor deny how painfully accurate this is from an industry perspective.
"Just because something is disgusting, that doesn't mean it's bad." - Zack F. 2020 🤛
@Abossow77
3 жыл бұрын
this makes me more confident with my face
@alexandrevaliquette1941
3 жыл бұрын
2021
@fredwupkensoppel8949
3 жыл бұрын
This is why I'm not kinkshaming.
@schizophrenicgaming365
3 жыл бұрын
hentai
Grian needs to torture Mumbo one day by making him fit redstone contraptions inside the most amazing looking interiors, just like real engineers
@cocofilms5524
3 жыл бұрын
P A C I F I C I N T E N C I F Y S
I'm self teaching myself and I purposefully make my stuff shit. I love chaos.
@martin-it4jb
3 жыл бұрын
lmao
@Scrogan
3 жыл бұрын
The same design philosophy as the WTFduino
@Dekarowski25
3 жыл бұрын
So every time you do something good, you are mad or satisfied🤔
@fredwupkensoppel8949
3 жыл бұрын
I'm not really engineering stuff (I built my own PC for example, very engineery) but I have some security through obscurity safety measures built into it through sheer lazyness. For example: My radiator is outside the case, so I had to run wires for the fans outside the case too. You can make use of a PWM hub so that you only need to run four wires once instead of four wires per fan. So, what is a cheap way to run four wires somewhere? Yeah, USB 2.0. So now I got a 12V USB port on my PC that has 850 watts of power behind it. If anyone ever steals my PC, they're gonna have some **FUN** with that. I know there's 12V on that port. They don't.
@twentylush
3 жыл бұрын
@@fredwupkensoppel8949 LOL. the best defensive wall is a field of landmines
Love this video, more of these please. As a software engineer, I used to read "TheDailyWTF" quite often. Other peoples mistakes/problems are a great source of learning..... and laughs.
I am self-taught too and I sometimes have the same insecurities in my designs and prototypes as you mentioned. I'm glad that I'm not the only one :p
@donpalmera
3 жыл бұрын
I worry more about the guys that have fancy qualifications and those that wear suites. There are so many people that end up in jobs because they have the right pieces of paper but basically have no clue what they are doing. They just follow the a list of rules in their head without adding any sort of feedback from their own brain... those guys are dangerous because they can't see where the rules they are following are bad. Usually they end up in management and then they are telling you how to do your job with even less of a clue.
@Zondac
3 жыл бұрын
@@donpalmera that's very rarely, if ever, the case in engineering. No one i know became an engineer to get the necessary papers, they started out self taught and brought a lot of their own preconception to university where they end up getting taught what was good about their ideas and why some parts would eventually fail. It's not a "brain shut-off, follow schematics" field, it's always adapting and you're always learning and the first thing you're taught is usually just the logic behind the things. In other fields, maybe what you described is the case, but an engineer who doesn't do prototyping/testing/learning/adapting is no engineer
@donpalmera
3 жыл бұрын
@@Zondac Which field of engineering to you *think* you are part of?
@donpalmera
3 жыл бұрын
@@Zondac Computer engineer == software engineer?
@Zondac
3 жыл бұрын
@@donpalmera yes and no, software engineering is a part of it but embedded systems engineering is another, same goes for hardware. It all depends on which direction you choose to study it at uni
Can't believe I'm just now watching this video, I'm a freelance prototype developer as well! I absolutely love this work and so glad to see others helping to make ideas come to life! Not even 3 minutes into this video, and you are sharing the exact same feelings that I had when I first started doing this.
I don't think you know how much of a weight this lifted from people's shoulders! This was a legitimate thing that would stall me on starting projects because of needing (and feeling) that there was always one more thing I needed to learn before diving in
Loved this, basically described my whole job. Going to send this to friends, family and colleagues when my elevator pitch fails me!
This was awesome , I feel so encouraged and inspired to see behind the curtain ...and i'm not even an engineer!
@lolaa2200
3 жыл бұрын
Well he actually just advised people to basically put heavier curtains so that other people can't come see behind. So ...
I've dabled with arduino and raspberry pi, but felt incredibly intimidated by "real hardware". Thanks to you, it feels like this is more approachable!
@ZackFreedman
3 жыл бұрын
It's WAY less impressive than it looks. Try reverse-engineering a circuit board - all you need is a magnifying glass and a continuity tester. You'll see that it's really just a bunch of sub-assemblies with a few power and data lines linking them together - and that most of those assemblies are just reference designs from datasheets!
Jank: The Industry Standard
@jrjtitanic
3 жыл бұрын
It is the only way
Zack, you are freaking awesome! Example, "ERROR: Help, I'm trapped in a firmware developer's office ..." F-in hilarious! Thank you for putting fun back into learning things like this.
Perhaps one of my favorite videos in the context of building anything electronic that uses more than basic switching etc. Very well done and excellent information, thank you!
Thank you for the psychotherapy session! Much needed! Show us more of the eye tracker plz!
This actually makes me feel way better about potentially starting an open hardware project in spite of the fact that I barely know what I'm doing!
"Shodan -- Rami Malek's search engine of choice" -- LOL!
very cool. interesting insight into like everyday objects. i like that you're exploring different video types. this gives me a similar feeling to watching a video by one of my favourite channels, suckerpinch.
This is pure gold Mr. Freedman, thank you so much for doing all that work - you elevate humanity!
I'm definitely taking these into consideration once I start developing my stuff. Thanks for all this info.
I just came across your channel yesterday, have a great time my dude and thanks for the videos, I've been binging them
Thank you for sharing! This is my favorite video you’ve made so far. I’m currently a computer engineering student, focusing on cybersecurity. This video is right up my alley. 💯 There’s a lot of work be done!
Nice presentation, just randomly opened... I didn't expect to watch it all the way thru, but that was a blast! Nice job!
Good luck on your new adventure! Looking forward to more videos!
Never heard of this conference before but that's because I'm really not in this community as much as used to be. Great presentation though! Seriously this presentation should be required to be shown to every EE and CS student in training right now. As an info sec student myself I can tell you this stuff is real and it happens all over. I"m here to find the flaws and it's easy for someone like me to become a Monday morning quarterback but seriously this stuff is important and Zach is, as always, the most friendly face to explain it. Cheers man.
Great video, thanks! Hope the move goes smoothly. Looking forward to the next vid
@ZackFreedman
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks 👍
Wow thanks for doing this. That was a genuine confidence booster.
Thanks for this vid, I’m finishing up a ME degree and this really made me feel like I’m not as incompetent of a designer as I thought I was.
Love this shizzle.......thank you succes in the Colorado’s!
Very nice and interesting presentation ! Thanks, I learn a lot !
Favorite vid yet, thanks Zack. Super informative.
The lever action belt fed 44 from the UK guy is a dream project of mine. It's a beautiful mix of concepts and legality.
Zack, I've been an IT Engineer for 25 plus years and during that time, didn't venture into hardware... Well, here I am and I'm just getting underway, learning the stuff behind the stuff. Your channel, man, hardcore. Zack Freedman, hardcore and? Loved hearing in this video that you were self taught. Same goes with me from being a "Certified OS/2 Engineer" what, 100 years ago? To many other things in between. Thanks, thanks, and again thanks. Keep it coming. I've traveled in and out of NYC for years and damn I wish I knew the name Zack Freedman, and add in Louis Rossman (Louis is a hoot and again, an animal at what he does). Anyhow, good travels sir. Love Colorado, where are you two landing up there and setting up shop? Should be a big change of scenery that's for damn sure. THANKS!!!!
Love it dude. Great stuff as always! Gotta get you on a defcon stage sometime!
You've really helped me decide what i want to do after high school.
Holy cow! 🐮 The inside of that new age camera blew my mind! Damn, that is so much stuff crammed underneath the outer shell! It's ribbon cabled to hell & back!
Great video, thanks for uploading!
Reminds me of a friend in the 1970s, who made controllers using TTL. He was sick of one particular customer who never returned boards to him for repair, but tried to mend things themselves. He knew they were doing it (flux deposits, chips from different suppliers, etc.), but couldn't prove it. One day, he supplied them a piece of equipment with, deliberately, a "blown" chip on the board. Sure enough, the customer got in touch the following year for a repair and he was able to say "You've been meddling with this." because they had changed the chip and so the device was held reset, illuminating a red LED and sounding the alarm! The customer had to buy a new board, of course.
I enjoyed this a lot. Have a safe trip!
Zack, can you make open-source smart glasses?
@0Arcoverde
3 жыл бұрын
The hardware is very expensive His designs given the glasses are already open
@Sasthara
3 жыл бұрын
Ya, i would support that, we'll call it glass freedman
"Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution"
I am a huge fan of you. Keep doing what you do like you do an I will follow you until retirement. Greetings from Italy and long life to Teensy boards
This is one of the most fascinating videos ive ever watched!!!
These videos are amazing keep it up!
Really great presentation!
This is as detailed and as enjoyable as pen testers doing def con videos. Nice.
Congrats on the new workshop
I went to Denver last year and completely fell in love with the town. I'm from NY but I live out in the desert now and my goal is to move out there when I finish my degree
1 month ago in Palm Harbor FL, hackers increased a chemical 10000xs which could've made the city water deadly, systems in place would not let this happen and alarms would sound. Admins noticed the change as it happened and caught it.
I'm not done with the video yet, but this is amazing. Edit: Finished the video. Still awesome
I still don’t understand how the earth hasn’t imploded yet... “everyone is terrible at their jobs” and yet- it all works somehow! LOL
@ZackFreedman
3 жыл бұрын
The secret: When most things fail, they become inconvenient instead of destructive. Listen to Mitch Hedburg's bit about how an escalator can't break, it can only become stairs.
Both terrifying and intriguing. I like it.
wow fantastic video :) loved the topics
I’ve seen some crazy shit inside the most expensive industrial electronics. I’m not saying I could do better… Very far from it… But while troubleshoot some of the most expensive boards out there… i regularly find bad design choices/mistakes everywhere. A bit of my background… I now spend half of my waking hours in my electronics lab repairing industrial boards and test equipment. And a bit of metrology for good measure. Most clients bring me stuff like discontinued “end of life“ PCBs that need component level troubleshooting and repair. Here are a few things I’ve seen in the past 60 days… Boards from 30 year old CNC machine controllers, HVAC equipment like massive tractor trailer truck sized screw chiller control boards, and other boards from ridiculously massive HVAC equipment. weird industrial x-ray machine control boards used to inspect injection molded and potted electronics, and pretty much anything you can find in a machine shop, Warehouse/Factory, even have a few industrial recycling companies who brought me regular repairs because they abuse the shit out of their shredders and other equipment. I get an average of 5 - 7 clients per week. It could be a single board or an entire cabinet full of boards from one client. It could be something simple like an impossible to find furnace control board from some massive 10 ton HVAC unit… or something complex like a 6 foot tall refrigerator sized rolling computer cabinet, With dozens of HUGE boards inside… used to control a 1980s Mitsubishi EDM cnc machine. (that actually just happened a few weeks ago.) It’s insane the things I find on circuit boards. And I’m talking about boards that were in million dollar pieces of equipment. I don’t normally work with really expensive modern boards. If it’s something that could possibly still be under warranty, or that I don’t feel comfortable with, I don’t hesitate to turn a client away or refer them to the manufacture. The first thing I learned is to never never never work on something you’re not completely comfortable with. It happens sometimes, but usually things like that either go back to the manufacture, or the clients can easily find a new board online to replace it. I don’t care what it cost. If they can find a new board to replace something… Even if it’s $10,000… I always suggest that you go that route if it’s something extremely modern and still under warranty or something from the medical field… That I don’t feel comfortable working on. So I don’t deal with that type of stuff. Mostly I deal with things that are completely unobtainable. Sometimes that means the manufacturer would take six months to replace or repair the board… And they need it now. Or sometimes it’s from Machines that were made in the 80s and 90s, and aren’t supported anymore… And sometimes even new modern equipment, if the company doesn’t offer replacement parts, and they can’t find a replacement board online. I’ve got to see some of the neatest, most well-designed and beautiful high-end electronic circuitry imaginable. From places like the prestigious Oak Ridge national laboratory (where the atom bomb was first made).... all the way to the lowly Walmart check out scanner. I see a wide range of different equipment and controllers. It really is a lot of fun, I even had a local nuclear plant bring me some massive LED sign controllers a few weeks ago… Because the company Who made them in the early 2000s disappeared and they needed these huge LED billboard sized RGB signs back up and running immediately. because They use it to display the incoming and outgoing electrical service information for the day. In other words the power that they’re generating at the nuclear facility… It’s basically like a massive computer monitor that everyone can see, and used to address their own controls. The laser diode emitter for the fiber optic controllers had fried because of static discharge. I was able to find the problem, source the part, have it overnight shipped, replace the laser emitters, and have the three controllers back to them in about 36 hours. And as you can imagine… That’s literally like a blank check. I’m not a crook… And I always try to be fair because a lot of these people are my friends. But I could’ve charge them whatever I wanted. That was a quarter of $1 million sign when it was new, and I’m sure a modern one would cost just as much. Not to mention the fact that they needed it yesterday. But if you are fair with your clients you will have a constant flow of high-quality boards to repair, from good respectable clients. I’m not an engineer. Technically I’m a trained machinist, but have no electrical background before five years ago. I totally stumbled into this, I knew nothing about electronics five years ago. I spent every waking hour in my workshop building guitars for clients, one day I got shocked really bad building a reproduction amplifier… And finally had enough. Decided it was time to learn. So Started going to my buddies recycling yard and buying broken high and industrial electronics to take apart and fix for fun. Became addicted to test equipment, and realized I could never afford my beautiful 8.5 digit multimeters, gigahertz oscilloscopes, and beautiful beige colored HP test equipment from their golden age. So I started buying broken and untested test equipment, repairing it and reselling it… Keeping what I could afford to… And then somehow a few years ago started picking up clients completely against my will. Friends and clients from my guitar and woodworking business, or from when I went to school for machining and metallurgy, old friends from high school who now are in manufacturing plants or machine shops at places like Volkswagen and Amazon here in town… Friends that I couldn’t turn away even though I wanted to… And I only fixed boards to help them. But somehow a little last few years it got to this point where now I spend half my time in my electronics lab and the other half building guitars. Sorry for the long comment, I’ve just seen some crazy shit in some of the most well-designed high-end products. And although most of it was way above my pay grade and I could never design anything as well… The designer still made mistakes.
@hullinstruments
3 жыл бұрын
I should add, I don’t write code and I can’t write code. I can write G code for CNC machines, and I can copy and paste code from an erased eprom. But 90% of my work is power electronics failures, wiped EPROM chips that just need copy and paste code, and other circuitboard issues. The stuff you’re discussing in your video is about the furthest from what I do. I absolutely stay away from consumer grade electronics. The stuff you’re talking about is exponentially harder than what I do. I’d rather chase down and re-populate 200 tantalum capacitors than try to troubleshoot a simple $5 USB stick. Industrial boards are laid out to be very efficient and simple, even the most complex boards are usually simple because they’re designed to be serviced and fixed. Yes! I know it’s hard to believe… But in the industrial world circuit boards are still designed to be serviced!
That gun at 4:26 is home made, its a ruger lever-action that was modified to take a belt to bypass UK magazine size restrictions
@ZackFreedman
3 жыл бұрын
That's interesting; it explains why someone went through all the trouble of linking up .45's!
Man! You‘re such an inspiration 🙏
5:00 Mackintosh -> Mac Hack.exe -> Windows Bash -> Linux Ilysm Zack, please never change
Great stuff Zack!
I was modding a part we received from a supplier a few weeks back and found an Arduino Mini hot glued onto the PCB and piggybacked onto the power supply. Loved it.
@ZackFreedman
3 жыл бұрын
I've always wanted to run into something like that. What kind of device was it?
@The.Talent
3 жыл бұрын
@@ZackFreedman it was a charging dock for a remote. The arduino had a reed switch soldered to it and when the remote (which had a magnet hot clued to the inside of the casing) was out of the dock the arduino would make a small speaker put out an alarm.
Safe travels Brooke, Zach, and your family of tiny computers on your cross country drive!!
It's something of a surprise that our internet infrastructure is still standing at all, considering how weak and flimsy its supposed security is. It's only a matter of time before it all collapses.
Copy-paste engineering, as far as circuits go, is almost a hallmark of good design. If someone figured out a thing and it works, why ruin it?
@lolaa2200
3 жыл бұрын
Oh damn you can not be more right. I'm often reviewing circuits and about 9 times out of 10 i'm like damn why don't you read the datasheet ? They clearly tell you there should be a cap there and that it should be as close to the pin as possible !!! RTFM !!!! And for the love of however superior force you believe in, please stop trying to reinvent the opamp !!! And the 10'th time it's usually like "do you know it exist off the shelf chip that just do what your whole circuit do and cost under 30cts ?"
@king_james_official
Жыл бұрын
@@lolaa2200 what if i don't believe in a superior force 👽
@lolaa2200
Жыл бұрын
@@king_james_official You'r an engineer ... build one ;c)
@king_james_official
Жыл бұрын
@@lolaa2200 spaghetti monster😈😈
Good video. Most organizations have not caught onto the dirty secret of the firmware security issues that exist in all of there devices. It a huge problem and it's not going to be easy to resolve.
Thanks Zack, I'm a machinist and I want to dive into building electronics. You are building that bridge for me.
I always feel bad if my projects dont have polish. This context makes me feel more confident. Were all only human. Thanks for sharing!
@ZackFreedman
3 жыл бұрын
There are only so many hours to finish a project - determining what to focus on and what to leave imperfect is part of the process.
@andreas4255
3 жыл бұрын
@@ZackFreedman Thanks for the encouragement! You just made my day :)
You forgot about embedded medical devices, which are programmed with magnetic loop antenna and not even a PIN code in some cases. Just imagine someone making a big loop antenna hidden in a door frame of public place with a controller programmed to change the vital settings of embedded insulin pumps and pace makers of every person entering or exiting a room/building. With proper settings the deadly trap would be triggered only in certain conditions, so it would be hard to figure out, when and where a person was hacked. I'm not making this up, there was some research into vulnerabilities of such medical devices.
thanks a lot, this is gold!
woah super cool info. Zack for Prez-O-Dent of cybersecurity
On one hand, I'm all for security. On the other, I love exposed serial ports because you can recover bricked devices or upload your own firmware.
And here I thought that my half-baked home-made projects would never be able to compete with the "big boys". How wrong I was.
Simply: Thank you.
Could you do a "how to jack into random serial ports/JTAG headers" tutorial were you crack open a dishwasher or so and show us common ways to get to that sweet sweet command line interface?
Im 100 percent sure pikes peak makerspace would love to talk to you if you have time in Colorado. I was a member for a few months when i lived down there
Hey Zack, I have an alternative opinion. I see no problem putting serial interface exposed on the breadboard. This gives you as a programmer/hacker to have the API to the box, so you can connect and script something. Especially right now, when everyone is crazy about IoT and smart home stuff. In my opinion, this is far better than putting a WIFI on the chip, as wifi exposes remote and often very insecure connection. What is important here is to treat Serial port as public API and don’t allow advanced stuff like firmware update - often printfíng status would be enough. Remember, in the old days cellular phones were dumb as hell and very restrictive, but as soon as you allow to develop and run the apps, market exploded. IoT will face the same fate, bc programmers are everywhere now, and number of hackers/prototypers are growing rapidly.
Great Video!
Really liked this one.
Safe travels my friend.
Heya Zack, just wondering what was behind the decision to move to Denver? I moved from there almost 10 years ago and really enjoyed living there. Cheers! Also, thanks for keeping the punology to a minimum in this video..MUCH easier to understand.
The NE8390 Ethernet card was the Ethernet controller's reference design, brought into production.
I´m a EE student and hell yeah nice advices to guide through
Great video!
This was lit. thank you
First time I've ever heard Zack laugh... Very convincing robot
I've worked in heavy industry for 15ish years... I've never, ever seen a PLC or industrial controller of any sort have a run keyswitch in any other position but "Remote". (Not to mention so many of these can be handily bypassed by the programming software because It's inconvenient to leave the office and go switch the processor into remote / program).
Your video really helps alleviate my imposter syndrome.
I saw a the Nordic semiconductor bluetooth test board! I've got one of those 🙌
You better have a cold beer with my name on it, when this is over I'll be your neck of the woods
The digital camera part absolutely kills me
Awesome Videos !!!!
Devices that have labeled UART ports are awesome, especially if they have the headers already soldered. There are some that don't accept any input though, just show log output.
I ain't even know the fuck this guy talks about half of the time. But God damn he's great at what he's doing. Great entertainer and low-key teaching stuff. Good job man
nice work!
You used to be able to find all sorts of xerox printers on the internet. Back in the late 90s we would print to them and envisioned some random dude in a foreign land wondering why his printer is spitting out restaurant menus.
@ZackFreedman
3 жыл бұрын
There are a few Shodan filters for printers. The modern version is a point-of-sale system - if you're not into the whole stealing-credit-cards thing, you could just print naughty text on the receipts.
Great talk.
why are you so good at making content