It sounds like the Ash'ari's put a lot of effort in clearing Allah from resembling the creation and the other group (Wahhabi's) put a great effort in likening Allah to the creations.

@khoyrulislam

2 жыл бұрын

It sounds like the Atharis are following the Qur'aan and Sunnah using the principles of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah while the Asharis are understanding the religion using Greek Philosophy 🤔 You will not find a single person from the Salaf of this Ummah saying what the Asharis of today are saying (Qur'aan is created, Kalaam Nafsi, Ta'weel of Allaah's Names etc)

@gxlden-kookiequit5111

2 жыл бұрын

@@khoyrulislam Nice making up stories from facebook lmao

@blackflag6976

Жыл бұрын

@@khoyrulislam Asharis don't say the Quran is created. Only the wahhabis lie like this to create sectarian enmity. Quit taking the verses literally to liken Allah to His creation.

@mostafahassan6909

Жыл бұрын

It seems that saying Allah has a hand, as the Quran clearly mentions, is already likening Allah to His creation to you. Your problem, not ours.

@blackflag6976

Жыл бұрын

@@mostafahassan6909 The Quran doesn't use the exact words "Allah has a hand". Thats what the neo salafis and wahhabis repeat all the time. Rather, "Hand" is an attribute of Allah as the salaf said, and Allah knows its meaning the best.

Well you either defer it or interpret it.

Read Muwafiq al-dins 'Dham al-Tawil', Imam Ahmed's 'Rad al-Jahmiya' and Shaykh al-Islam 'At-Tadmuriyyah'!

1st Imam Ashari repented & became close to Athari writing al Ibana before death! 1 :00 - this is an error, Salafis I know, say we don't liken Allah to his creation & affirm his Attributes as in Quran 42 :11 & 7 :180 - affirming Allah's attributes without likening. Ahlul Sunni, here I mean Islam or salafis teach 3 categories of Tawhid/Oneness. 1. Tawhid Rububiyah - Allah's Lordship or His actions as Creator etc. (Quran 1 :2) 2. Tawhid Ulluhiyah - Allah's Oneness in Godhood or being served as He taught (Quran 6 :162 & 163). 3. Tawhid Asma wa Saffat - Names and Attributes of Allah understood properly... Category 3 has 4 sub pillars to understand Allah's (Tawhid in) Names & Attributes: A) No Tatil or denial - Quran 7 :180. - Affirm. B) No Tamthil or likening, - Quran 42 -11. - Affirm without likening. C) No Takyif or questioning the how of the unseen - Quran 17 :36. D) No Tahrif or distorting w/o evidence - Quran 7 :33. Some of us believe tahrif may involve tatil as well of the apparent meaning. Salafis don't say it means an appendage of limb... Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: It is well-known that there is no report from any of the Prophets or from the Sahaabah or from the Taabi‘een or from any of the early generations of the ummah to suggest that Allah is a physical entity or that He is not a physical entity. Rather denying or affirming that is an innovation according to Islam. End quote. Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (5/434) Regarding directions... Allah's Highness above the Arsh is a sign of Tawhid taught to the Muslim slave and even the firaun in Surah 28 & 40... Direct Evidence Allah is above His Arsh in the Farewell Sermon, Abu Bakr, Abu Hanifa etc. 1. ... I have left among you the Book of Allah, and if you hold fast to it, you would never go astray. And you would be asked about me (on the Day of Resurrection), (now tell me) what would you say? They (the audience) said: We will bear witness that you have conveyed (the message), discharged (the ministry of Prophethood) and given wise (sincere) counsel. He (the narrator) said: ***He (the Holy Prophet) then raised his forefinger towards the sky and pointing it at the people (said):" O Allah, be witness. 0 Allah, be witness," saying it thrice.*** (Bilal then) pronounced Adhan and later... source : Sahih Muslim 1218 a - book of hajj/pilgrimage. >>> Point 2 : Salafis reject Ashari view not for not likening Allah to their creation but rejecting the description of Allah and the jahmiyah reject Allah's description of Himself & sometimes the Ashari in addition try to redefine it going into another error of speaking about Allah without knowledge or Quran 7 :33. For examples Ashari say Allah's Hands means power violating Quran 7 :33. But Allah says He has 2 hands. does this mean He has 2 powers? In Hadiths Allah created 3 things with His Hands, Jannah, Adam and the Torah. So how about the rest of the world, see Quran 65 :12? So the Ashari understand creates a misunderstanding, but even before that the error they made is that they are not humble and accepting to Allah's words as he taught... Also see this example... Also When Allah asked satan why don't you prostrate to who I created with My Own Hands?satan if Hands meant power could of said you made with with Your Hands as well oh Allah... In Summary : With regards to Allah's Attributes (Hands in Quran 5 :64 or Face in Quran 75 :22, or Shin in Quran 68, or Eyes in Quran 54 etc.) Salafis - Affirm (no tatil), without likening (tamthil) leaving takyif/modality... for someone to say affirming the meaning of Allah's words is tamthil is accusing Allah of tamthil , and we seek refuge with Allah from that! To change the meaning of something from the unseen needs evidence from text as only Allah reveals the unseen as He wishes (Quran 6 :50 etc.) As the hadiths say Allah made us in His Image in His will, not the other way around. Asharis type 1 (tawil) - do tatil and tahrif/tawil (violating Quran 7 :33) , denying the apparent and say about Allah whhat they don't know or... only agreeing with Salafis on not likening Allah. Ashari type 2 (tafwid) - do tatil (violating Quran 7 :180) of the meaning but agree with the salafis on not likening or rejecting tamthil and tawil or leaving the takyif/modality!

@abbc1999

3 жыл бұрын

Where do you got this, can I have it in detail from source, so I can cross examine this, because I'm from primarily from matirudi country, I can't clearly understand where matirudis contradict salafis, scholars from my country ask question why salafis divide aqeedah in 3, where does it say to do so

@abbc1999

3 жыл бұрын

Also they ask why salafis follow ibn taymiyyah & muhammad ibn abdulwahab (they say they weren't salaf), also they claim matirudi was salaf (he lived at that time)

@abdullahimusa9761

3 жыл бұрын

@@abbc1999 the guy you are replying to is a troll. He barely knows what he is talking about. Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jama'ah consists of the Ashā'irah, Māturīdiyyah and virtuous Hanābilah. If you have other questions, please pin point exactly what you don't understand and need clarification for

@abbc1999

3 жыл бұрын

@@abdullahimusa9761 ashairah & maturudiyah cannot be truth, it came not from rasulullah ﷺ, the argumentation & knowledge comes from ilmul kalam, which was innovated originally by greek philosophers

@abdullahimusa9761

3 жыл бұрын

@@abbc1999 With this kind of thinking, Imam Ibn Taymiyyah is wrong (he is according to Ahl al-Sunnah but to you, I assume he is correct) because he wrote multi volume works in Kalām, falsafah and mantiq. This is a weak argument! Simply because you share something with the Greeks doesn't make you misguided. The Mutakallimūn differed with the Greeks on many fundamental concepts such as time, space, jawhar al-fard, eternity of the matter of the universe etc. Interestingly, Ibn Taymiyyah and the "salafiyyah" agree with the Greeks partially or wholly in many of the above mentioned concepts in antagonism to Ahl al-Sunnah! In fact, "salafiyyah" build some of their aqida on isra'illiyāt (narrations from Bani Israil) and sometimes claim that the creed of Ahl al-Sunnah goes against their creed and the books of the Jews and Christians!

The title should be "The differences between the Ash'ari's and the Wahhabi's"!!! We don't call the Wahhabi's "Salafi's". We can call the so-called salafi's!!

All Praise to Hindustan for Ahmad Raza Khan?

‘Hand of Allah..’. Ashari claim they not know the meaning, according to Sheikh Asrar? Surely it is a linguistic device in the Qur’aan borrowed from the Arabic language for an expression of power.

It's not from the Aqeedah & ways of the Salaf to try to explain attributes of Allah using kalaam (philosophical reasons) that's what Ashaa'irah do. They try to prove existence of Allah through Aql. For us Naql precedes before Aql, because we believe in Allah & Muhammad as the Messenger without a doubt. You Ashaa'irah are not following the way of the Salaf.

@jj-yi1ne

3 ай бұрын

appeal to authority fallacy

So Allaah Has not Protected the Aqeedah of Scholars from Mecca and Madinah??

@AdaGyuik56

2 жыл бұрын

Akhi although I agree with you in terms of aqeedah, that’s a horrible argument

@smileyface8412

4 ай бұрын

It was Asharis is control of Makkah and Medina befire the Salafi wahabis killed the ulema with alliance with the british and forcefully took Makkah and Medina . As found in History The aqida of ppl of makka and Madina is not automatically going to be correct. Tomorrow a shia can take over makkah for example . Will u say he is correct?

@jj-yi1ne

3 ай бұрын

thank you for leaving wahabiyyah because the wahabis starved the imams of the haramain to death when trying to conquer them

We affirm fwhat Allah affirmed for himself of His attributes without negating it, without asking how in attempt to interpret it, without distorting it's meaning to something else, without likening it to His creatures. You're doing distortion of it's meaning. We say ALLAH has hands because He affirmed it. But we don't say How it is. His hands are not like any of His Creatures ليس كمثله شيء وهو السميع البصير

@gxlden-kookiequit5111

2 жыл бұрын

And you have no scholars to ack that up! :D

@Spark12429

2 жыл бұрын

@@gxlden-kookiequit5111 Why did Allah( swbt) said in the quran verse i created Adam with my 2 hands.. quwwah means power in arabic, quwwah isn't used in that verse....

@gxlden-kookiequit5111

2 жыл бұрын

@@Spark12429what’s the definition of hand? Tell me the definition then you will know you are an anthropomorphist

@Spark12429

2 жыл бұрын

@@gxlden-kookiequit5111 Allah( swbt) hands are not like the creation.. but we do know Allah( swbt) dhaat is light...

@Spark12429

2 жыл бұрын

@@gxlden-kookiequit5111 Tell me why did the prophet( swaws) mentions hands in his hadith towards Allah( swbt)...

You Ashaa'irah of today are like Jahmis. They negated the attributes of ALLAH, where as you affirm a few & distort the meanings of others. Athariyyah doesn't innovate things up. They follow the Quran & Sunnah with the understanding of the Sahābah. So they are true Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamā'ah. When Allah affirm a SIFĀT from himself in the Quran & the Prophet in His Ḥadeeth & from the narrations of the Sahābāh we knew they didn't do ta'teel on the Sifaat. It's very clear the Athariyyah are true orthodox Islam. The saved sect

@keepweeping2026

2 жыл бұрын

salafis contradict the Quran. Better luck next time

@LightSpark3421

Жыл бұрын

And all the other Muslims are not the saved sect? I would like to remind you my dear brother in Islam you have to be humble and not boastful only Allah (swt) knows who the saved sect is. All we can do is strive and pray we are , but one thing I'm sure is boasting you are the saved sect is not going to help your cause.

Asharis are ahlus sunnah but many pseudo salafis beg to differ

@mohammadmubeen6701

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t know if you would know. Do you guys believe Allah has a face?

@rezacny

3 жыл бұрын

@@mohammadmubeen6701 we believe in the wajh of Allah. We don't say it's a face with meaning of a body part as this contradicts Allah's absolute oneness. We leave the meaning to Allah as the salaf did. This is the ashari maturidi and true athari way

@mohammadmubeen6701

3 жыл бұрын

@@rezacny ok and what is wajh of Allah?

@rezacny

3 жыл бұрын

@@mohammadmubeen6701 we don't know. We leave the meaning to Allah as the salaf did. Some have said the wajh of Allah is Allah himself. Allah knows best. The word translates to face but we don't know it's meaning for face.is a word,.not a definition

@mohammadmubeen6701

3 жыл бұрын

@@rezacny are you not an ashari?

The modern Salafi movement is actually Wahabis who follow aqidah of Ibn Taimiyah which is clearly not in accordance to actual Salaf i.e. Imam Hanafi, Maliki, Shafie, Hambali and scholars of 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries. Wahabis aqidah are not part of Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamaah bcos they are more toward mujassimah and musyabbihah. Wahabis scholars never been recognised by Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamaah worldwide.

@noneofyourbuizness

6 ай бұрын

Wow blantant lies .

The way he explain this is vice versa.. the salafis are urging that the statements are figurative and leaving the meaning to Allah.. while Ashari are the ones who accusing the salafis for negating. Abd the way he present the topic is like a blatant lie and bias.

We don’t know meanings as per your claim then go ahead and give meanings to Allah’s attributes. For example, hands of Allah = power.. ashaira are upon &falsehood! Pure contradictions

@jamielsaddiq9692

2 жыл бұрын

Allah never mentioned "hand or hands"". He mentioned "Yad or Yadayn". Now find out what the Mufasirun mentioned in interpreting the Ayah in which these words are mentioned.

@jj-yi1ne

3 ай бұрын

u idiot u believe allah has hands

@EA-hz9mg

2 ай бұрын

We as laymen do tafwid actually only the pious predecessors did ta’wil

Its proven Abu hasan al ashari went through 3 stages. Read his last works asharis today deny this.

@rezacny

3 жыл бұрын

Because it's a false claim. Imam asharis students are enough to prove this 3 stage claim is false

@justneedlife2001

2 жыл бұрын

I was led to believe the same thing by Salafis. kzread.info/dash/bejne/amaNmNCJd9C9gs4.html&ab_channel=MuhammadUmarMustafa This video completely destroys that claim, watch it if you're sincere.

The difference is, that the Quran, Sunnah and Salaf is sufficient for the people of the sunnah. The ashari’s are not sufficed with this, so they have to mix Islam with Greek philosophy. The salafis will remain up until the end times, whereas the ashari’s would not cease to exist were it not for Plato and Aristotle

So basically the argument is that the jahmiyya deny the Quran outright, vs the Asharis who only deny or distort its meaning. Fantastic argument. Hilariously, the 4 Imams and the great scholars of the salaf had the same "modern psudo-salafi" understanding they're so offended by, with the exception of some of the mufassireen and a handful of others who had some minor mistakes in aqeedah. Further, ahlussunah do not use terms Allah did not use, such as limbs or body parts, in the first place - so this is all a big hoax and a strawman in the first place. We just say that Allah having a hand means that Allah has a hand, and that this is not a reference to power or something else that is not a hand. Ect.

@fifafreebies8941

Жыл бұрын

What is affirmed to Allah in the Qur'an is IN ARABIC. Eyes, hands, a face--are all literally body parts. If the person doesn't mean body parts (which is outright kufr), then let the person leave the terms in Arabic like Yad, Wajh etc, say they DO NOT refer to body parts/spatial entities, and that they have meanings that befits Allah.

@mostafahassan6909

Жыл бұрын

@@fifafreebies8941 Yad, wajh, and so on are also body parts when used to refer to humans, so what is your point? We are referring to Allah and not humans, yad means hand, wajh means face, and we agree nothing is like Allah and that we should not affirm a body or parts to Allah, because Allah did not describe Himself as such. As for not translating the words or using any other words to explain them, there is no basis for that.

@fifafreebies8941

Жыл бұрын

@@mostafahassan6909 The fundamental question, therefore, should be asked: Did Allāh establish hands, foot , shin etc., for Himself? And Allāh’s refuge is sought. Anyone who has studied the Arabic language can attest that there is a clear difference, for example, between the Arabic word ‘yad’ and the English translation ‘hand’. Imām Ibn Ḥajar Al-ʿAsqalani has posited in his magnum opus commentary on Ṣaḥīḥ Al-Bukhārī that the word ‘yad’ in the Arabic language has 25 meanings. Thus, to translate these attributes of Allāh into the English language, which anthropomorphises the concept of a God, and then argue that we are establishing for Allāh what He has established for Himself is incorrect - Allāh did not establish the meanings of these English words anywhere. In addition, the pious Salaf never translated these attributes into English. In fact, Imām Al-Bayhaqī, et al., have reported with a sound chain of transmission that the great Imām of the Salaf, Sufyān b. ʿUyanah, said: كل ما وصف الله من نفسه في كتابه، فتفسيره تلاوته والسكوت عليه ‘Everything that Allāh has described Himself with in His book, its exegesis is its recitation and to remain silent upon it’.

@mostafahassan6909

Жыл бұрын

@@fifafreebies8941 To say that a particular language fundamentally anthropomorhphizes Allah if we use it to describe Him is baseless. No one will ever disagree that a translation can never be 100% true to the original text, but this does not prohibit translation - otherwise you would have to deny the meaning of all Allah's attributes, and say that we cannot say Allah sees or hears or is powerful or the like, but can only say he is baseer and samee' and qadeer and so on, a'uthu billah. How would we understand who our creator is then, and what is the benefit of Allah revealing these descriptions that we just neglect and say we don't know what they mean to the extent that we could not even express anything about Him in any language besides Arabic? As for affirming what Allah says about Himself without delving into details, this is correct, but not to the extreme of denying the meanings of the words Allah used. As Imam Malik said when asked about the manner of istiwaa: istiwaa is not unknown, and the manner is not comprehensible, and believing in it is obligatory, and asking about it is an innovation. You seem to agree with that except for the first part: that the meaning of the word istiwaa is not unknown! And others from the salaf explained it as 'alaa wartafa', or rose and ascended in English, which is nothing more than affirming the meaning of the word, not delving into details or distorting the meaning, nor is it negating it altogether.

@fifafreebies8941

Жыл бұрын

@@mostafahassan6909 The fastest clarification of this confusion is knowing the difference between concrete and abstract nouns. Concrete nouns, in their literal sense, are physical objects, like faces and hands. Abstract nouns, even in a literal sense, are not physical objects, like hearing and sight, power etc From there, clarify that the Hearing and Sight of Allah are not by eyes and ears, have no beginning or end, and are not restricted to time, direction, volume, or light, and thus do not resemble the hearing and sight of the creatures ; we are actually able to make a contrast and show the difference although the words are the same. It was for this precise point that His Hearing and Sight were mentioned AFTER the negation of any and all resemblance to anything ‏لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِ شَيْءٌ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ البَصِيرُ Nothing is like Him. And He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing. 42:11

Ashari strawman as per usual

Asrar is explaining his Ashari Aqeeda how Christians have difficulty explaining the Trinity. Asharis have created a problem in Islam which we never had to begin with. The Jinn of Greek/Indian philosophy has terribly messed up their Aqeeda. Sad state of affairs.