That darn 280AI has been calling my name lately

I’ve watched the channel “Long range shooters of Utah” Almost no one has ever hit the 1000 yard milk jug with the first shot. Keep in mind these are long range rifles, not hunting rifles that they are using. Also it’s an exact known distance and elevation before they get to location. My opinion is if you have to walk your shot to the vitals of a game animal, based on your misses you should never have taken the first shot!

As a longtime subscriber to Shooting Times, I have been reading JVBs work for years. Great to get to see and hear him!

The Dynamic Duo of Gun Writers. So glad as I mentioned before that you two were able to collaborate. I watched the short version of this, glad that you posted the full podcast too.

250 yards is hunting, 400 yards plus shot is an assination. Long live the 270

"I" make a distinction between Long range shooting and Hunting. I believe hunting distance should have some reasonable limits. For instance, can you hit the vitals repeatedly from said distance, or if the animal moves when the rifle goes bang could it cause a bad shot? I would encourage others to also make such a distinction, for several reasons.

@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast

Жыл бұрын

Good points, Bees.

@jk-kr8jt

Жыл бұрын

Bees toes, agree with you and could add many other factors. But mainly, not just hitting the vital repeatedly, hitting the vitals FIRST shot EVERY time. No "walking" it on to the target. First time, every time. Respect for the animal. To us it's a sport, until the trigger is squeezed, then it's deadly serious. Thank you for pointing that out to people. Cheers, Jeff

@TexanUSMC8089

Жыл бұрын

Since the bullet is going faster than the speed of sound, you shouldn't need to worry about the bang alerting a deer.

@beestoe993

Жыл бұрын

@@TexanUSMC8089 The bang is not the problem. That was just an expression. The problem is that at some of the extreme distances people are shooting at these days (and hunting), it takes so long for the bullet to arrive that critters have time to move enough to make a mess of a shot before the bullet even gets there.

@johnkertzman3223

Жыл бұрын

​@@beestoe993 and you really don't have to be that far away, I had a deer take a step one time while I was shooting at it at about 300 yards with my old 30-06 and a hit further back in the liver. I was aiming for the heart/lungs and I was in a ground blind with a steady rest and my hunting buddy was in The blind with me. He saw the deer take a step through the spotting scope right as I fired! that's my problem with long range shooting there's too many variables like swirling winds and unpredictability of the animals themselves, not worth the risk and the tracking job that follows!

"Live, eat, dream long range hunting. You can't be a part timer." I like that Joseph said that because it fascinates me to see so many 'long range' setups for sale that are clearly very new and hardly used because shooters seem to think that the rifle will turn them into a "sniper".

@letsdothis9063

10 ай бұрын

What's crazy, is that those guys usually started out on a farm with a shotgun, and something like. 30-30 (at least my generation).

Great podcast. Awesome points on flight time and ballistics. Reminds me of something I learned in physics class. Say a track and field 400m runner (440yds / 1/4 mile) which is 1 lap around the track has a tailwind heading down the first straight away to his back. After making the first turn he now has a headwind going down the back straightaway. You would think this would even out right? because he runs into a headwind for the same amount of distance that he runs with a tailwind. But no! This actually hurts the runner because he spends more time running into a headwind than he does running with a tail wind. It has to do with duration not distance. Just like with the flight time of a bullet if you decrease it the projectile spends less duration affected by the environment

Ron and Joseph is a winning combination!

I really like when you two are together. The unique perspectives and experiences go quite well together. I read Chuck Hawks statement on the fact that most of the gaps in cartridges were all covered by around 1965. It still is a struggle sometimes to choose a new cartridge as a budget and time will permit to only have some many when you may want to get all of them! Keep up the great work! Cheers from Ohio.

@RonSpomerOutdoors

Ай бұрын

Thank you Aaron.

The best Rifle & Cartridge is the ones you master !

@Master_Yoda1990

Жыл бұрын

Depends on the purpose, like they said 6.5 creedmor isn't gonna be a long distance killer, but it's good for long distance competition due to the power. If you're hunting deer you can do well with .243 win, but that wouldn't be adequate for bear or moose.

This was a good one !!!! TY Ron !!

I am an “ole fudd” as well Ron. Haven’t seen much that would make me want to change my 30/30, 45-70 and stable of Weatherby cartridges out to something new … at least for what I do. My newest hunting cartridge is the 7mm REM Mag! (1962 is when I think it came out)

A great debate but got to say I agree with you Ron be ethical in your shots great video very interesting and Joseph knows his ballistics more like this please...

Loved the show. Thank you for sharing your years of knowledge.

I loved Ron's reaction to moose hunting with the 6.8 western.

@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast

Жыл бұрын

My moose response was based on the bulls I've taken with 130-gr. 270 WSM, 120-gr. 6.5-06, 140-gr. 280 AI, etc.

@aaronmiles1971

Жыл бұрын

Well done sir. I'm hoping the 6.8 stays around. The model 70 being released, has definitely spiked my interest.

Gosh I enjoy listening to you and Joseph and all the great information you both share!!

I have a discontinued one for Joseph. The 303/25 wildcat created in Canada and still used there and here in Australia. Ballistically in between the 250 savage and the venerable 257 Roberts, I have taken everything from wild scrub bulls weighing in excess of 1500 lbs to rabbits.

Ole Randy Shelby might disagree with yall on a lot of this. However I agree! My favorite deer cartridge that I have went back to since my neck is jacked up is the 22-250.

absolutely excellent, especially younger shooters who really have a lot of hunting ahead of them...

Your video was a lot better in complete form. Thanks. I liked it

@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast

Жыл бұрын

We sometimes like to give a short version for folks who haven't time for the long. Glad you enjoyed.

Loved this

A wealth of information. Thanks!

Really good topic. There are a bunch of people I run into who need to watch this and learn something.

I still have and love my 7mm rem mag, but I have started shooting a 28 nosler and the 6.5 prc they especially the 28 hit so hard. You can't shoot anything with it and not smile . Good job

270 weatherby. Problem solving out to 800 yards

Nice interview! You are a good interviewer. Thank you.

Very good Ron!

The person I work for always say, “you can teach anyone to shoot to 500yards within 1/2 hour but, will take a lot of practice and learning to shoot past it. I LOVE how you guys make sure we listener’s understand the importance of projectiles selection depending of the application type you going to do. Thank you very very much for the great videocast and amazing work you guys do, very much appreciated!

@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast

Жыл бұрын

Our pleasure Mac.

@jfess1911

Жыл бұрын

I think it would be more accurate to say "AS LONG AS SOMEONE ELSE HAS MADE WIND AND RANGE ADJUSTMENTS, , you can teach anyone to shoot to 500yards within 1/2 hour". It is the first shot that is important and the wind call on a 500yard shot is not easy. One of the reasons that many older magnum cartridges still had relatively light bullets was to get max velocity to reduce the effect of bad wind and range estimations at 300 - 400 yards, distances generally considered "long" for hunting at the time.

Being an average, (at best), hunter... I start every season by pulling out my old faithful hand me down 30-06 with a trusty old 3x9 scope, (which is older than I am ;-), move my wifes horses out of the lower pasture and check the sights on old faithful. 3 shots @ 50 yards, 100, and 300 yards. (I've never taken a shot over 100-120 yards, here in western NC we live in mountainous VERY brushy terrain) I LOVE listening to your discussions, but I have zero use for those fancy rifles, heck, I can't hardly afford to reload my own rounds!!! $350 for 5K primers is CRAZY!!! Always enjoy your shows sir 🙂

If not having to go much higher than a 150 grain bullet ,the .270W has the broadest cross between so many cartridges it has to be a .270 rifle in the gun case.

@FantomWireBrian

Жыл бұрын

The 130 grain boat tail in the.270 is like a match made in heaven,and not much of anything is better on paper or in the field 😎

Everything Ron said about the 6.5cm but at 300 max that’s why I bought a cm not to hit game at 500 or 800 or 1000 yards but for the point blank ability at 300

6.5 PRC has approximately 62 inches of drift at 1000 yards with 10mph winds. If you misread that by 40% and the average wind speed is 14 mph at the shot, you are off by 24 inches. It is not ethical to shoot game at that range. That could easily turn into a badly gut shot elk.

@turtledunkknucklebaby8089

8 ай бұрын

By that logic it’s not “ethical” to kill anything with a traditional bow. There’s no sights. You might miss. Some people shoot a thousand yards from a cold bore; more accurately than the average Joe at 100 yards on a bench rest. Some people shoot a traditional bow better than the average person with a crossbow. Let them do what they do and keep pushing what’s possible.

@chasrmartel4777

8 ай бұрын

No they don't and it is unethical. Your "I'm such a good shot the laws of physics doesn't apply" is both stupid and indicative of an inability to reason objectively. @@turtledunkknucklebaby8089

@gk5891

6 ай бұрын

For me 600 yd isn't ethical. For me a running deer at 25 yards with a shotgun is ethical. Others disagree on both. Ethics is a personal code of behavior. You only have yourself to answer to.

@nozrep

3 ай бұрын

yah but it’d be ethical for a proper trained military sniper of course of which the majority of us hunters are not such like trained. Anyway i just wanted to say a yah but

@chasrmartel4777

3 ай бұрын

@@nozrep It's not ethical for anyone. Physics doesn't care where you learned to shoot.

I "had" to have a 7mm Remington Magnum a couple decades ago and did enjoy shooting with it. Around 2010 I stumbled across info on the 280 AI. After a lot of thinking and searching I jumped on the bandwagon. Another great discussion RSO!

Fun video. But I’m still effective with my 7MM Rem Mag at 440 yards with 160 Accubonds and Partitions leaving the barrel at 3005. I do have to wonder how hot Joseph got wearing a Stormy Kromer the whole time? 🤠

My 1st time here,thank you I truly enjoyed this episode the two of you have great chemistry together and education.

@RonSpomerOutdoors

7 ай бұрын

Thanks Banks. Glad you enjoyed it.

Excellent video. 2 very respectable guys. I learned a lot from this! Thanks the both of you

Thanks for explaining why the throat design of modern cartridges is an important advantage. This is what makes them more "inherently accurate". Many old designs essentially use a funnel design that allows the bullet to wiggle around more as it engages the rifling. The "modern" design lines the bullet up with a close-tolerance tube. This is really not a recent development since the Weatherby Magnums have used this design since the 1940's. Some of the Weatherby Magnum cartridges even have a tighter-than-normal spec for bullet and bore diameter.

One thing about sharp shoulders is as the firing pin hits the primer the case tens to collapse. Bellm has shown that with a Contender/Encore the 30-06 or 22-250 may collapse into the chamber 0.005-6” while a sharper shoulder such as Creedmoor or Ackley will collapse only 0.001”. This will help provide more positive consistent ignition.

In the 1960s, my father shot a deer in Colorado standing in a clearing surrounded by sagebrush on a mountain side about 500-700 yards away. Back in those days, we did not have these little Ranger 4x4 vehicles, only a 1957 Chevy Apache pickup at the bottom of the hill. So my father had an old surplus Army tent in the truck bed we used as a drop cloth for painting. We proceed up the side of the mountain on foot to the kill site. When we arrived, we placed the deer on the tent spread out, sliding it over and on sagebrush, slowly pulling it down back to the pickup. The old tent worked perfect to move the Animal, but stepping in between the thick sagebrush and almost falling several times proved to be a chore. I'm not a fan of long range kills and all the trouble it takes to get'em back to haul them away. I hope you enjoy the faster twist rate.

Thanks for another great podcast! Really enjoyed the discussion between you both!

Ron I love what you do have been watching for a while now!!! I would love to see One of these videos about shotgun slugs for those who hunt in states say like Minnesota where the southern half almost 2/3 of the state is shotgun only and they don't allow straight wall cartridges so it's strictly shotgun only. Would be interesting to have you guys dissect some of the different slug options that we have available today and what's the best and as you say, hunt honest and shoot straight!!! Happy trails fellas

Such a pleasure to find a discussion that appreciates the details relating to the new cartridges that make them work better. So many go on about MV and ignore details that get you more efficiency, accuracy and energy downrange. Much nicer discussion than some old pedantic, bombastic, know it all that claims he has been building rifles since forever, killed more elk than ever and was there when everything new in cartridges was invented.

Most cartridges after about 1980 have been solutions looking for problems. Key word “most”.

In terms of ethical range… If you factor in probability of recovery… even if the animal expires… But you can’t even find the blood trail… It’s going to be extremely rare to ever exceed 500m… honestly… Ron refers to 400yds as a practical range limit… very practical indeed. Honestly… I consider any range beyond your MPBR… or beyond top edge hold… to be “Long” range. A 400yd shot on game is a very long range shot. These days with all the amazing gear and technology available… hitting 12” steel plates at 400m is pretty easy… But… successfully harvesting an animal at 400m with a low probability of failing to recover the animal… is much more challenging indeed. Dropping the bullet into the vital zone is but one among many other factors that have to all go right… to get that meat into the freezer.

My favorites for hunting in western areas for deer are 6.5 PRC, 280 AI, 7 Rem Mag. For South Texas where we have more hills and less wind and the deer are less than 150 yards away...7-08, 6.5 Creedmoor, 308, and 30-30. 30-30 for deer 100 yards or closer is extremely hard to beat. I have cartridges that I like better than others, but I like them all. There is no such thing as the best. There are too many animals to hunt in way too many environments.

I just consulted a fellow which had a 798 Remington that was a 7mm Remington hate to say what the hundred yard group sizes where, it's re-barreled because of accuracy problems, 26" medium contour barrel, and chambered it in 270 Weatherby no free bore and twist rate of 1-8, he is going with the Barnes builts, made more for paper targets.

I've found loose chambers can loaded with once fired parchelly siezed brass. Bullet seated out .010" off barrel lands, with good results .

I would never shoot any big game at 600 yds !!! varmits maybe ? TY Ron !!

It’s awesome to see you two debate both sides of this spectrum. I have split the difference this season and stepped up to the terminal ascent bullets in my faithful 270. Why not select a bullet that gives you the advantage JVB is after and still shoot a classic??

Even as an old Fuddy Duddy like Ron, I found this an excellent and informative conversation. Thank you both.

I have a 6.5×55 sheepish wonderful round, easy on the shoulder.

@chrisdaniel1339

Жыл бұрын

My favorite cartridge too.

Vortex just did a really nice video with a bullet designer.

Now there is the 7 prc coming out.

Now that’s funny about the Creedmore cartridge. I grew up on the island. But Creedmore is known as a Mental hospital there. At least by me. I never heard of a shooting range. FYI-I own one. 6.5 it’s hard to get away from it. What about the 325 WSM cartridges, why didn’t 8 mm ever catch on like in Europe?

@mysterioanonymous3206

Жыл бұрын

Where I am in Europe not many people shoot 8mm though. They kick like a donkey. I think US calibers are used a lot nowadays, not least because of the price. 308 and 30-06, even 270. More ammo choice and much cheaper than classic euro calibers.

For me personally I don't shoot a hunting past 500 yards even though I'm more than capable of making shots at 1000 to me that's just the maximum limit I feel like you should Hunter

@gusloader123

Жыл бұрын

Nobody should. Paper targets at Creedmoor or Camp Perry or The Palma Matches are not Game animals. This video is really bad information. There are already too many wounded game animals.

I like Joseph's thinking on using a sledgehammer, elk & moose. A 300 win or 338 win get to ride in my scabbard usually. But....a good bonded 140 or 150 out of a .270 win 4" behind the shoulder on a big bull just deflates them big lungs. They're really not that tough unless you try to shoot through the thick stuff and get that big adrenaline flowing. Shoot them through the ribs, stay off the shoulder.

@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast

Жыл бұрын

My experience with moose suggests you're spot on, Aaron. A small bullet through the lungs and don't let them know you're around. As best I can recall, none of the bull moose I've shot knew they were being pursued. Based on their reaction to the shots, they didn't know they had been hit, either.

@aarons307

Жыл бұрын

@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast Agreed. I called in a big Shiras bull into close rifle range for my mom one year when she was the lucky tag holder. Her 270 barked when he turned broadside and he stood there like a mosquito had just bit him. The 150 partition was centered on shoulder and never entered the rib cage...too much mass. I hissed behind the shoulder...the next one through the ribs had steam boiling out both sides in the cool frosty 15 degree Wyoming morning and he took 2 steps and fell over. I just don't understand why there's this attitude that you have to take out the shoulders, African game yes, our N. American game, those lungs are a big unprotected target.

I enjoyed the discussion. Was this directed at just mid-west hunters? All of my shots on deer in New England woods have been under 50 yards, majority under 30. These high-speed bullets will destroy alot of meat. Anything over 2700 ft. Is too much. If you're hunting for antlers, ok. If you're harvesting for the table, much overkill

@chrisdaniel1339

Жыл бұрын

If I could only have one rifle it would be the 6.5x55 Swede. High BC bullets for low drift and less drop, carries more energy down range, velocity is 2500-2700 fps depending on bullet wt, very mild recoil, and inherent accuracy. The Swede does many things so well. I am originally from NH and hunted with shotgun, muzzleloader, and rifle and you are absolutely correct about short shots in the NE deer woods. I had 308 rifle that spent most of its time at the range not in the woods, but if I knew I was going to hunt a large corn field I would probably take the rifle or muzzleloader.

With the modern powders and bullets the old Fudd cartridges will absolutely nip at the heels of the new fancy latest and greatest

@bluntbone

Жыл бұрын

And the advantage of the new cartridges really only materialize past 500 yards so my opinion is that they are selling a lot of people on capability that in the vast majority of hunting situations is superfluous. What if your range finder or wind meter isn't working or available? Speed is still king when all else fails. For that reason I'd rather shoot a lighter, faster, flatter shooting bullet at ethical hunting ranges (inside 550 for me and that range depends upon personal skill of the shooter and environmental conditions) than these new heavy long bullets meant for ranges out past 500 or 600 yards. Inside 500 there is no need to buy the new stuff and I am not. ~certified old dude.

What are the downsides of higher BC bullets and higher twist rates? Lower mechanical accuracy, right? When not factoring environmental factors and shooting groups at shorter ranges, I find the high BC bullets produce larger group sizes than say a 140 gr nosler partition with a flat base (no boat tail) in my 7mm rem mag. And from what I understand, higher twist rates will hurt accuracy if the bullet isn't perfectly concentric. Is that right? That you actually want the slowest twist possible to stabilize any given bullet to maximize precision?

300 prc is a beast....

Just looking at centerfire rifle cartridges, you can quite easily hunt any game anywhere on the planet using nothing but cartridges that are over 90-95 years old. (I didn't go with 100 years old because I wanted to include the .300H&H which appeared in 1925, almost 100 years ago.) This leaves you with the venerable .30-06, the .30-30 Win, the 375 H&H, the awesome 7x57 Mauser, the 45-70 and a host of others including most of the 'Big Boys' for African dangerous game such as the .470 NE and even the .600 NE. From very modest .22 centerfires up to the Big Boomers, vintage cartridges get the job done.

@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast

Жыл бұрын

True, Stephen. And it's equally true that we can hunt anything on the planet with muzzleloaders as well as bows and arrows. Hunting is hunting. The various tools we used to take our game merely make it easier or more challenging. Spears, anyone?

@miketyke9451

Жыл бұрын

@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast Javelina are named for the type of spear the Spanish hunted them with. It is a thrusting spear as opposed to a throwing spear. Check out competitive atlatil spear throwing.

@stephenland9361

Жыл бұрын

@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast A centerfire rifle cartridge is a rather simple thing. Brass case, primer, powder and bullet. While there have been significant improvements in bullets and powders over the past decade or so, primers are pretty generic and brass cases don't do anything today that they didn't do 100 years ago. While I don't have anything against the latest and greatest cartridges, I also see them as only marginally better than what was available fifty years ago, particularly for hunting. When taking a shot at a moose that's 200 yards away, does it matter if I'm shooting a .300 PRC as opposed to a .300 Win Mag? Or a .28 Nosler vs. a 7mm Rem Mag? Do the latest and greatest monolithic, high BC bullets kill any better than a Nosler partition? Not at 200 yards they don't. And as for powders, my go to powder for my .300 Win Mag is IMR 4831. The stuff was used to load 20 mm Oerlikon cannon cartridges in WWII so it's at least 80 years old. My pet load gives me excellent velocity, accuracy and shot to shot consistency. I might get a few more fps with a newer powder but who cares? I'm already getting 3160 fps with a 180 gr. bullet.

@RonSpomerOutdoors

Жыл бұрын

@@stephenland9361 So true, Stephen. Each of us approaches guns and ammo from our personal perspectives. Some are happy with 130 year old cartridges and 70-year old bullet designs. Others must have the latest tweak. The good news is we not only have many options, but are still free to choose them.

@bluntbone

Жыл бұрын

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Yup

I love my old tikka m695 300 win mag l9ng magazine from the factory, saami coal is 3.35" but i can fit a coal of 3.5" in my magazine but fir extreme range hunting i use 338 lapua magnum that packs over 1500 ft lbs at 1500 yards

I've come to the conclusion that it's not that the old school cartridges are unable to work well. It's just that these new ones are available to the common user from the factory. No custom gunsmith work needed. We get outa the box match chambers n ammo with the PRC and creedmore

I like to read about all the new Cartridges and how they eclipse the performance of other cartridges. I had used my Father's 30-40 Krag for my first deer, and my brothers.223 for the second one and managed to take mule deer with one shot each. The deer in both cases only moved 20 yards from where they were shot. My wife, bless her, bought me my first Deer rifle a Remington 700 BDL back in 1969 and I have used it for almost all of my hunting as it outshoots all my other guns, save my .223 (Sako Vixen). I remember reading about the .264 winchester when it first came out and how it was better than the .270 because it had all the case capacity of the .300 Mag with that little .264 bullet. At the time, I thought, "how can a 264 be better than a 270 ? Isn' the 270 bigger? (when your 11, it is easy to miss the decimal point) I was convinced that the 264 was the most powerful gun ever and I'm sure that a lot of others did too, but then it earned a Rep as a "Barrel burner"" and it suddenly slipped into Limbo. So now i wonder, why isn't the 6.5 PRC also a "Barrel burner"? It has about the same case capacity and the same diameter bullet. Down the road we'll have to see. When a Deer meets its maker does whether it is shot with a .243, .264, .270, 280, .308 or .320 inch diameter make any difference? I am convinced that the real reason for all these caliber bullets and cartridges only exist for marketing reasons, not because there is that much difference. My uncle swore by his 8MM Mauser that he brought home from an argument called WW2, and it certainly served him well. My Dad shot several mule deer and one Elk with his 30-40 Krag and I have friends with all of the above cartridges. I like the .270 because there are not many others that shoot flatter at 400 yards and then less than an inch difference (.264 Win Mag) it pretty much matches my brothers 7MM Mag but much easier on the shoulder.

You want a javelin instead of a football is how I put it!

Long heavy bullets and faster twist barrel because of sectional density. Sectional density over high BC, small dia bullets punching deep, always heavy for cal for me

With hunting and shooting, it can be said that the spending of money has no end. But the spending of my money has an end. I respect the new cartridges, but my old outdated ones are doing just fine.

Thanks Ron!

The biggest problem I see is happening is with all these apps etc you can hit at that distance but the cartridge is not up to the power needed and bullet performance at that distance 6.5 Creedmoor is not a 800 yds deer or elk cartridge for an example

yup this is why a 7-33 NOSLER out does a 28 nosler, fist a detachable magazine where the 28 nosler dosnt, the 7-33 nosler has longer barrel life and delivers 1000 fpe at 1 mile!

6.5 Creedmoor accurate as you say but watching it on Red Deer stags in the UK i would not shoot one over 200 yards, with it, it does not hit hard enough

210 grain ABLRin 06 is stable Requires only a 1 in 10 twist rate. At 2600 fps mv has 1750 ft lbs of energy at 600 yds! At 3000 ft typical hunting elevation and is still traveling at nearly 2000 fps Is The holy grail for longer shots with the old 30-06

Wouldnt it be great if hunters would take as much pride in stalking game and the close in hunt as they do on the long distance shots. We should never sacrifice clean kill shots to test the limits of our gear.

Tbh I was hoping ron would have talked more. I think the biggest argument against new cartridges is availability and that some of them may go the way of the dodo. I think another argument is in most cases you can step up in cartridge size with high bc bullets and get close to the performance.

@mysterioanonymous3206

Жыл бұрын

Ammo price and rifle selection are important too. They're just not there with new cartridges. For what you save on these new fancy cartridges and rifles you can shoot (practice) an awful lot in 308 and get pretty good at it.

Ron calls himself a fudd but Joe has the hat. ;-)

The paradox is that if you need the advantages that these new cartridges can deliver it is almost impossible in this day and age that you will have the experience hunting to be able to use the potential unless you are a professional ( making a living shooting or a rich man’s avocation .)

My concern is, are these high bc bullets constructed as well as a nosler partition? I'm guessing these high bc bullets are not good hunting bullets, I'm sure they are great for targets, but probably not the correct construction for 600 yd shots at deer, elk, etc.

I am sure you have addressed this point in other videos, still searching, the most 'efficient' cartridges and what centerfire cartridges offer the longest barrel life/accuracy for the shooter.

@mysterioanonymous3206

Жыл бұрын

Idk, a good barrel can take 6000 shots, some up to 10000 without loosing accuracy. So how much do you shoot? 100 for practice and 10 hunting throughout the year? That's some 60 to 100 years of hunting. Here where I am in Europe it's normal to have your granddad gun and still use it. Many guys buy one rifle and keep that their whole hunting life. So guys buy a really nice quality Blaser and just use that. Idk how good/bad Walmart rifles for 400 bucks are, we don't have them here...

@ed5042

Жыл бұрын

@@mysterioanonymous3206 I should not have included barrel life, irrelevant. I have been using the 6.5x55 since 87 and am very pleased with the efficiency/ volume of powder to achieve reasonable velocity resulting in less recoil and reasonable down range results.

@ed5042

Жыл бұрын

@@mysterioanonymous3206 I found myself gravitating to the 250-3000 savage also. I am still using a 1921 Savage 99 featherweight takedown. NOT DRILLED AND tapped for scope! Marbles flip up peep sight!

@mysterioanonymous3206

Жыл бұрын

@@ed5042 yeap... American calibers are often loaded hot (so they get more barrel wear), whereas classic European calibers not so much. So they may have less "performance", but they seem to be a lot more "efficient" than all the high powered rounds/ magnums and whatnot. So I agree with you here... 6.5x55 is nice, I'd use that but unfortunately we have a 7mm minimum where I am, so 7mm (or up) it is.

I’m really surprised the 300 Norma mag isn’t brought up more. I think the best big .30 for high BC bullets.

Dear Ron, Please allow me a more personal note I was triggered to write in reaction to your video with Joseph von Benedikt (kzread.info/dash/bejne/lmGLlqxme5qeZtI.html). I follow your publications and very much support how you position respectful hunting as an integral part of long-term care for our natural environment. It is not really possible - meaning realistically feasible - to ensure a balanced ecology without judicious hunting. But there is the rub too: what is judicious? The intellectual father of this notion, Ferdinand von Raesfeld, coined the phrase “Hege mit der Büchse”, “to manage with the gun”. The “gun” was only to be used to improve the quality and age-structure of the species; his ideas found their roots in ancient Germanic traditions of taking care not to ‘overhunt’. But Raesfeld, having defined ‘what’ to shoot, never thought that ‘when’ to shoot would include discussions on yardage to the extent we are discussing now. As the technical limitations have ever more receded, to the extent that gun bullets adopt artillery trajectories, the only limit proposed is the accuracy of the shot. Joseph emphasizes this by stating that 600-yards shots can be considered responsible “if the shooter lives and breathes long-distance shooting”. Which incidentally means an infinite minority of hunters. What strikes and disappoints me is the omission in this discussion of what hunting is fundamentally about: profoundly participating in the Wheel of Nature, to connect with its magic and mesmerising wonder in a way that endlessly spins-out, whether we - mankind - intervene or not. In such participation lies the very justification of hunting and the answer to why: we hunt prey as it is hunted by Nature, killing the mature, the superfluous, the weak and the sick, regardless of Man’s interventions. When we do so, we simply do as Nature does too. Seeing hunting this way must surely draw us away from any consideration of shooting at distances that are only possible with extreme technical assistance, separating us from the prey we are striving to connect with, the full-bodied act of hunting with all it entails, into which we are trying to immerse ourselves. If you cannot ‘see’ the animal with your naked eye; if you have to ‘calculate’ bullet trajectories beyond a simple estimated correction for circumstances you see and feel, we are disconnecting ourselves and defeating the very purpose of our hunting. In your discussion with Joseph, there is a sense of apology about setting clear limits based no hunting ethics - which are only partly articulated by accuracy; a reluctance to offend would-be snipers and braggarts. This should not be. Shooting beyond the ‘connection distance’ with the prey is not hunting ethically; it’s target shooting. In the end, all such ‘shooting’ which cannot be explained as hunting in the sense I defined above, whether in rifle or shotgun hunting, especially driven shoots, will lead to ever greater incomprehension by the ever-expanding urban populations, who vote on such issues and have little qualms of simply forbidding the shooting of animals. I’m a lifelong mountain hunter in the Alps and just don’t want to shoot beyond 300m, for all these reasons; no technical capabilities will change that, as you will understand, those technical capabilities have nothing to do with this chosen limitation. My walls are filled with what I call ‘white trophies’: all the game that I didn’t shoot, because not all the rules could be met; apart form the suitability of the animal, the distance for reliable accuracy, the ability to see how the animal reacts to the shot and where it goes if it is not down immediately and needs to be searched, the accessibility of the terrain to dog and man in such a case. I’m sure this limit is a very difficult one to accept when carrying a modern supergun (“not a gun, but a weapon” as my father says) and looking out over the endless flat plains in the West. But still, ethics trump all and there is always, always the choice of either being a better or luckier hunter and get closer to the prey, or simply saying: “No, this will be a white trophy, this is not for me now and proudly so”. Kind regards, Alexander

@RonSpomerOutdoors

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your carefully reasoned and passionately explained philosophy, Alexander. While I agree that urban non-hunters may be "turned off" by extreme range, high tech, tool assisted shooting, one can also argue that they also object to close-range bow hunting, spear hunting, etc. Nevertheless, research and surveys have shown that the closer hunter behavior is to the "Daniel Boone" or "Grandpa single-shot" ideal, the more accepting non-hunters are of hunting. In other words, they respect woodsmanship and fieldcraft. Not so much high tech.

My problem is I like to tinker and I'm addicted to guns so when a new cartridge comes out I get to scratch 2 itches at the same time... LOL If I really like the cartridge I keep the gun/guns I have chambered in it and if I don't I sale them and move on to the next one. That said I have guns I bought or was given as a present early in life and guns I inherited that were loved by family members that never leave the collection and I like to dig them out the safe to hunt with later in the season just because it gives me that nostalgic feeling even if I'm not the biggest fan of the cartridge they're chambered in. So at the end of the day they all have a place...

@bluntbone

Жыл бұрын

Haha I have too many guns for the same reasons.

I can do what I need to do with the old bullets.

270 win ,shot a lot deer 336 yards ,no problem 6 inches low .an I put it right in there wheel house

What is wrong with shooting a game animal at 100 yds or less not just with a lever gun but even a 6.5 Creedmoor. I believe in hunting and fooling game, rather than shooting. Now Sheep and Goats, Pronghorn are usually longer range. I have however come within 10-15 yds from Pronghorn more than once.

How about 7mm PRC now that it is out?!?

Why hasn't anyone tried to bring the larger caliber bullets in to modern times? Or maybe they have and I have just missed them. Well I guess the 375 Ruger is one example, but that's more of case design and not bullet design right? Or maybe it's both. Or, is there not a need to have more modern bullet design in larger calibers? I should've said efficient bullet design maybe, instead of modern.

Lots of good info.

Joe knows his shit

300 ultra mag can use that bullet they have at least .5"free bore so seating it long does not help.

I may have missed this comment in the video. What is the ideal elk and below caliber with manageable recoil that you would recommend for

@ronspomer4366

Жыл бұрын

Kelly, that depends on your definition of manageable recoil. 6.8 Western or virtually any 7mm or 308 Win. I'd roll with the 7mm RM or new PRC

@kellysatterfield5384

Жыл бұрын

@@ronspomer4366 thank you! I understand manageable is all relative the shooter. I should have been more definitive. I'll look a little more closely at the ballistics on the 6.8 Western and 308. Thank you for responding and good hunting!!!!!!!

Poor Ron cant get a word in edgewise!

Old fuddy duddies. Anything 300 WBY. New shooters 6.5-300 WBY! Still Authentic to a point but the .300 is really close behind at 1000 yards with 150Gr. 1944 or 45. Classic but effective

28 nosler is the best all around cartridge modern day

My interlocks are boattails

Then there barrel life to consider for us common folk who can't afford a new rifle every few years if a person shoots a lot to maintain skill at distance.

I'm totally on bc wagon now. Originally what outraged me was many articles stating if you have a .30 cal and you're target shooting at 8 to a thousand yards you'll miss 40% more than 6.5 creedmore?! 100 yrs of matches missing 40% of the time? BULLSHIT. And claiming they only shoot elk over 600 yards (with 6.5 creed) what 140 ish grains?

Ron what about the new 7mm PRC?

@RonSpomerOutdoors

Жыл бұрын

Remains to be seen, but from the SAAMI drawings, it appears to be a 300 PRC case shortened and designed to push extra long, high B.C..284" bullets as heavy as 180 grains through fast twist barrels. Instrumental Velocity via SAAMI 2,950 fps with 180-gr. Same rim and head .523" of the 300 and 6.5 PRCs. Case length in between. Overall length 3.34", same as 30-06. Twist rate 1:8.

I have hunted all my life,I am not all that educated on the science of the new bullets,but what I believe is.you need to be able to hit a plate size target to kill your game I also believe that 90 percent of hunters under hunting condition are not able to hit a plate at 300 yards. Some of this new high range bullets are not the best hunting bullets

I’m going to tell you something,I love the 30.06 it’s killed everything in the world, but the 300 Weatherby outperforms most any Cartridge to date. Change my mind.??????