The maneuverability and the helmet mounted display or aiming of the Su-27 make it a deadly fighter in a dogfight and these mirages learned that the hard way. Hope you like the video guys.

@wesleysugalski2842

6 жыл бұрын

trying set up DCS and back Flying, +I'm Helicopter Pilot for real time and L- 59, very nice rush. I like Hornet ……………………..Thanks for the Reply. Wes.

@axesandros

5 жыл бұрын

I wondering why many people struggles too much using the SU-27 and the MiG-29 in dogfight. They does not know the envelopment of this fighters or just sucks flying with this planes? I noticed that some people prefers the american ones. Thanks for your comments.

@axesandros

5 жыл бұрын

I saw another dogfight video where SU-27 vs Mirage, F-18 and F-15 PvP and the SU-27 get killed easily, and the guys using the Sukhoy were complaining all the time the lack of maneuverability and energy bleed of russian planes. I guess this is due the lack of knowledge about the plane but I will appreciate you comments about this. Thanks.

@mungo7136

5 жыл бұрын

My 5 cents: AI did a poor job. You said somewhere that you had same initial velocity. Than you cannot outmaneuver them in 1 turn unless you can pull substantially higher G. As a plane and as a pilot. With same speed G is going to be same for same turn diameter. And Delta-wings are described as capable of making very sharp initial turn although at the expense of the energy loss. Other way around would be through high deceleration and thus diameter reduction - but that would make you quite a sitting duck. On the other hand - you are flying generic plane against fully-modeled one, no? Or are those Mirages also generic as they were in DCS/FC3 (long time ago I did some flying long before all those "100% simulated custom planes", and Mirage was able to keep on my tail - Mig-29/Su-27. Well, but I was not the best jockey :) ).

@robleyusuf2566

5 жыл бұрын

@@axesandros Mig 29 is designed for intercepting while Sukhoi 27 is designed for air superiority. I would prefere Sukhoi 27 over F15 and Sukhoi 30 or Sukhoi 35 over F18hornet and Sukhoi 57 over F22 or F35. Sukhoi produces high meneuvrable fighters. I don't like MiG

SU-27 is just a pure bred dogfighter. Impressive

@robleyusuf2566

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah that cobra manoeuvre

@aangxazor5759

3 жыл бұрын

Wow you two know how to type messages really good

I did not even realize how amazing the maneuverability of su27 is until I see this video. Nice job!

The maneuverability of SU-27 are deadly, I got over 800 hr"s flying time. You did great approach for 3 kill"s. + Video was Exl. Thanks...

@GrowlingSidewinder

6 жыл бұрын

thanks a lot brother. means a lot coming from a guy with 800h fly time in the su27

@dannyboy5158

3 жыл бұрын

WOW.

@Anarchy_420

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder would the J-15 be a good match for the SU-27 in a dogfight??

@Anarchy_420

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder I hope you get this message-- There's a different F-22 mod with Thrust Vectoring and HMD!! Please look into acquiring this version as it is no offense the better F-22 Mod...

Imagine being in F-16 or 15 without a helmet sight in the late 80s against this thing...

Imagine doing this in an SU-35S... That thing is a leaner, meaner killer and at nearly 2800km/h a natural born predator!

@Noon69

3 жыл бұрын

do a fucking kulbit manuever and just keeps going. love the Strayevoy Flanker

@bacco0447

3 жыл бұрын

How about the su-57

Try to do the same with F-18 instead of su-27. Or reverse it, M-2000 against 3 su-27.

@ipayman5217

4 жыл бұрын

RIP for mirages in dogfights

@detomasopantera1966

4 жыл бұрын

@@ipayman5217 They are designed for bombing and naval affairs (exocet etc..) not dogfights.

@detomasopantera1966

4 жыл бұрын

At the end of the day it's who's flying the plane as well👌

@ipayman5217

4 жыл бұрын

@@detomasopantera1966 exactly

@jotabe1984

4 жыл бұрын

@@detomasopantera1966 in fact they were an improvement over mirage III/V mainly a way more powerfull engine, fly by wire control, modern electronics and newer radar/ammo suite. as you shurely know... Mirage III was first designed as a high altittude interceptor against soviet bombers, mainly known for his role as air superiority aircraft in the 6 day war, where it also flew in many bomb missions, which ended up in the fighter-bomber role oriented Mirage V development, that gave up some of the maneuverability of the Mirage III. Then the Mirage V family was improved into IAI Kfir (that used J79 american engine) and Atlas Cheetah (that kept the Atar Franch engine) that really improved on radar, weapon electronics and also engine (that last up to a certain point) but were of restricted maneuverability (3rd gen Fighters at best). That starting flaw, same flaw shared with Mirage F1, sowed up the need of a newer Mirage. Since, unlike 2nd gen designed aircraft that could be upgraded/improved up to 3rd gen, no plane prior to 4th gen could be upgraded without a redesign since Fly-By-Wire was a distinctive feature I really think Mirage 2000 was mainly a redesign effort... back in the day (late 70s early 80s) when it was developed and entered service, the enemy aircraft in AA engagement would had been mainly Mig-21, Mig-23, Older Mirages and F-5/A4 and rarely F4 Phantom II... Mig-29 was the worst case-scenario and since ever Su-27 was in another league. France did take notice of what what his plane was capable of and the idea was to be complemented by a High component (pretty much like F-16 was the low vector that was compliment of F-15) of twin engine. France bailed from Thyppon project and later developed Rafale, and since then, they have both Rafale and M2000 working as High-Low tandem... Now 30 years have passed, Mirage 2000 is at the low edge of the spectrum (yet stil above 3rd gen recicled aircraft that are still pretty common in many 3rd world countrys, like F-5, Mig 21 and older Mirages) and like any aged aircraft, his last days are more oriented to bombing missions in which can still perform really well

I so wish we could get a fully modeled SU-27.

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

SasquatchyCowboy that would be pretty sweet man

@sasquatchycowboy5585

5 жыл бұрын

Growling Sidewinder It won't happen, but maybe the J-11. Mig-29A really really needs too happen. But yeah it's a real shame. The Su is so close already, there can't be that much work too do on it.

@TheGranicd

5 жыл бұрын

SasquatchyCowboy You would be disappointed with realistic 29A. 29A doesn`t have target speed/height indicator on HUD like it has right now. You can`t fire gun if you have centerline tank also unlike right now.

@sasquatchycowboy5585

5 жыл бұрын

@@TheGranicd If that's how it is then that's how it is. The reason I say an A model needs too happen is because that's what was exported, and has seen action. The S would be a freaking amazing jet, but how many fights has it been in. Hell I love the realistic 21 with all its quarks. Just really want to see more love for the red jets. Mig-23, 29, Su-17/22, even a mig-27 would be fun. Just love to see how the other side really is. By the way what with the cannon not being able to fire with the centerline tank? Dose it block the ejection port, or is it a resonance thing?

@borderline.

5 жыл бұрын

@@sasquatchycowboy5585 mig 23 will come full clickable

Really enjoyed going through the analysis at the end. Love the SU-27.

Love your tactical stuff awesome flying

Watching older videos and it's amazing how far you've come. Congrats on the 100k subs.

Awesome SUKHOI 27..... Piece of fliying art... Excellent pilote also 😉

The AI here is below par. The real M2000 is VERY maneuverable in the first few seconds of an engagement, and we are talking about 23-24 degrees/second turning ability, which even if still inferior to the SU-27, should only be marginally so and is obviously not taken advantage of in this engagement.

@christianm1533

5 жыл бұрын

Actually, ITR of the M2000C is 28deg/s. It's around MiG 29-territory. STR is not that bad either due to low wing loading.

@adampaula1863

5 жыл бұрын

Oh come on. stop complaining

@robleyusuf2566

5 жыл бұрын

Sukhoi 27 is superior to Mirage 2000.

@micamfoscam615

4 жыл бұрын

@@robleyusuf2566 Not really. In front of M2000C probably, but in a face to face with a M2000-5 or 2000-9 it's another story

@robleyusuf2566

4 жыл бұрын

@@micamfoscam615 If someone asks me which to choose between Mirage and Sukhoi, I would chose Sukhoi

Amazing! This kind of gives me ideas on how to tackle the instant action against many other fighters. I am nnneeeever able to pass it. It would be great off you to make a session about this instant action. It's the first one for the SU27..Thank you

Impressive ! Would you try the same against 3 human opponents in multiplayer ? Would it work the same ?

@GrowlingSidewinder

4 жыл бұрын

Jean Dupont only if the 3 players were baboons lol this is only against AI it’s the only way to pull this off

@jeandupont8501

4 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder What a quick and legit no bs reply ! Thanks for that :) Anyway, impressive work, looks like a piece of art, what with the Mirages initiating their ballet and you executing the three of them in what is nearly a single turn. You pushed the enveloppe again and now we can boldly dogfight like no one has dared before :D

Can you consider repeating this on Multiplayer?

That's it this Grunt is now your student!

Getting the idea you are DAMN GOOD at this😀

brilliant one day when i'm big i will also fight like this :)) right now i'm still battling to land the bloody thing

I love how each kill was a definite overkill. Like he's already dead lol. Wonderful flying.

The quickness in which you eliminated all three planes was amazing!

@GrowlingSidewinder

4 жыл бұрын

haha i can't take too much credit man, these were just AI, theyre pretty dumb.

@Anarchy_420

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder Is the SU-35 better than SU-27 at dogfighting??

Excellent job

I can't believe you shot 2 mirages in one turn... you have impressive flight skills !!!

I am starting again from way back Falcon 4.0, I'm re-learning again from your channel, what a refresher, great videos! May i ask you what joysticks / throttle you are using?

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

Jeff Lucas Astrophotographer hi there glad ur enjoying the content I'm using the thrustmaster 16000m

@jefflucas_life

5 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder Cool saves me money over the warthog - I'll get the whole 16000m setup. Ty

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

Jeff Lucas Astrophotographer ya u don't have to go that expensive man. Ur very welcome goodluck

@jefflucas_life

5 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder one more, are you using pedals? Which you recommend?

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

Jeff Lucas Astrophotographer no sir no pedals the joystick has a pedal axis function but if u can afford it pedals are awesome.

It seems to me that the fatal error was the last Mirage pulling out of its first turn at the 7:15 mark in the replay, instead of holding the turn and facing the Su-27 head on, where it could have lined up a gun shot and/or made you run from a Magic. The only way a Mirage wins 1v1 is by keeping you defensive and he missed that opportunity. Had the AI maintained the turn he could have popped a Magic and chased you with guns and his last Magic.

@hind6799

5 жыл бұрын

The fatal error is that it is piloted by AI.

Su + GS = fast death Thanks for the quickie GS :)

That shits crazy lol, you managed to turn around and eliminate 2 dudes before they even got to finished their little 3-way merge 😂

Tnx . It was awesome. What would u do if u was the last mirage . Last battle but twisted

Superb Video...How are you able to get this kind of simulation with such graphics ?

That's some supreme flying indeed.

You should do a Su-27 vs 3 F-16s, guns only.

Which is better SU-27 or J-15 in a dogfight??

3 f16s vs 2 f15s? can u make such video?

Just a second opinion on this. When the last mirage went vertical, he might be trying to lose speed, do a drag race to get behind the sukhoi and kill it. Why is cos the sukhoi has more speed and maneuverability, thus the mirage would not be able to outturn it. His only choice is to take advantage of the sukhoi speed to overshoot him in a vertical climb. The vertical climb might slow down the mirage first, but the sukhoi has enough power, hence speed to overshoot him. Hope you can learnt about this tactic known as " vertical drag race ",known to be used commonly by Russian fighters

Oh man this is old and the audio wow you’ve come a long way

@GrowlingSidewinder

2 жыл бұрын

lol thanks man, thats why I keep these old videos up, reminds me where I started.

Hahaha "okay guys, here we go.... Oh shit!" Also, one great thing about the comments section is that sometimes there are some bonus gold nuggets of helpful information that would be missed if you only watched the video.

Does tacview work in il-2?

Still love this video after about a year I guess one of the best takedowns ever

That fight was over before it even started.

Su-27 is really awesome.

What was the location of this battle?

I like how nobody is pointing out that GS had his airbrake out the entire time for the guns engagement, I found that funny.

Poor AI and a far superior SRAAM with HOBS are probably as important as the airframe agility. M2000 is capable of very high ITR and has very high roll rates neither of which were used by the AI. Unlikely that a magic could have made that first kill.

Pls try this again but with f15 f14 f16 f18 and compare it with su27.

That wasn't fair there was only three of them vs one of you!

Wow. Made short work of them.

Which is better ? Mirage 2000 or Mirage 3 or Kfir ?

when is su 35 gonna be in game??

what about 3 M2000 (2 missiles each) vs su27 (guns only)

Who was flying the mirage

can u do su30 vs f16?

Falklands War anybody? Can DCS accomodate this? Reenacting that with a change in Argentinian tactics would be interesting to see... P.S. Thanks for the awesome content! Because of yours and Tex from BlackPantsLegion (Battletech) KZread videos, I'm 16gb of RAM, 2 cooling fans and a monitor away from completing my first PC build, flying poorly in DCS and smashing mechs in Battletech :-l

@MongooseTacticool

4 жыл бұрын

It's plausible, A4 skyhawk mod vs period incorrect AV8B perhaps. Not sure if there's a FRS1 Sea Harrier mod.

Pls do a vid of how a mirage 2000 should be used to take a su27

@milans.637

4 жыл бұрын

How when mirage can't kill su27 cause "su" is another level for mirage 2000 .

The Indian Air force uses both Su27 variant (MKI) and the Mirage 2000. Read somewhere that the 2000s with Meteor is more than a match for Su27

@MotoGreciaMarios

5 жыл бұрын

Anything with a Meteor is a match for... anything :)

@msb3235

5 жыл бұрын

IAF uses SU30MKI, I think it's their superiority fighter.

@thesidd19

5 жыл бұрын

Yes IAF use Su30MKI and russian have modelled their Su30SM on it.

@kannan661

5 жыл бұрын

IAF M2000 (upgraded) don't have Meteor but very capable MICA

It would be interesting what can do Su-27 vs 3 or 5 F/A-18's

@thesidd19

5 жыл бұрын

F18 would be dead...

@irvanmaulana941

4 жыл бұрын

Nice AWACS.

Sukhoi is unbelievably quick

Why does yt only show me this now

The good old SU-27.

Those Mirage have they librery ir they peruvian aire force.. Nice

@HaroldDVasquezLopez

2 жыл бұрын

They are Peruvian Mirage 2000P’s , Haha that’s probably why their missiles didn’t work

Brownie and her escort got shot down by Mr X (Colorized footage 2018)

VS A.I. EASY SKILL . . . . . MIGHT AS WELL BE SHOOTING DRONES

Surprised MIrages #2 and #3 didn't do a Thatch weave

Vertical turns help with gravity

Wow! I thought those air show moves are pointless because of their low speed!

What game/program is this?

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

this is called digital combat simulator

Not bad, but lets see you do the same in a non-arcade, full fidelity module like the FA/18C ;)

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

f18 is actually my preferred aircraft. as soon as its got a helmet mounted sight and TWS this will be easy af.

@Anarchy_420

3 жыл бұрын

Hb the F-16 Viper isn't it better than the Falcon in a dogfight?? Cant forget about F-21🙃

@Anarchy_420

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder I loved the Canadian F-18 CF VS the Swiss F-18 C Absolutely EPIC when the missiles collided lol not once but twice!🤯 Canadian CF variety seems superior to the regular Hornet C I'd Love to see how the Canadian CF F-18 Holds UP Against The American F-18 Super Hornet! Fighting in the same situation/scenario as the Canadian VS Swiss F-18's fight😁✌

I wonder what the Su-35 can even do!?

Don’t draw too much conclusion about this AI set up. I can gun down AI Su-27 with M-2000C too. AI is doing a poor job. How comes no Mirage shoot Magic 2 head on ?

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

don't shoot until the merge, no one wants to watch a fight that ends in 3 seconds lol. this way theres turning and shoot and fighting its more interesting content to post.

@JoJo-vm8vk

5 жыл бұрын

Growling Sidewinder How do you restrain AI to shoot before the merge but allow them to do it after ?

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

u start the fight very close so they don't have time to acquire lock lol.

@Domi39

5 жыл бұрын

Yyyyyep. I specifically made a video to counter this one. kzread.info/dash/bejne/lZ-p1c9xeqfJoLg.html This video doesn't show dick.

@swe-timberwolf3642

5 жыл бұрын

I agree the AI isn't very good. I made a video myself with reversed situation and starting from BVR. 1 M2000C vs 4 expert Su-27s. kzread.info/dash/bejne/pZaCu8t7e9Laj7w.html

Dunno why you were "giving 'em 2" at such close distance. Those Fox 1's were not dodgable. And if they were, such as with flares, both missiles would have been defeated because they see the same thing. 1 each would have been fine b/c of your awesome nose placement upon firing.

About 180 degree turn. Mirages turning left and right have more energy and by thinking energy management, the have 50 percent more E. You, going up, you lost energy and because of losing speed, you managed to turn more tight losing E but gaining alt. IF this was a fully realistic training exercise, those mirages would not do it like that. Most likely they would have split one plane 15% up left or right while two plane group does the same in opposite direction, saving E and gaining alt. YOU as an aggressor would need to make a turn first, and the after that, flight leader would make a decision about approaching the fight.

@MotoGreciaMarios

5 жыл бұрын

If I am allowed a remark, you seem to have a slight misconception of energy. Energy comes from both speed and altitude and an aircraft (or missile) can trade one for the other.

Do you think NATO could control the air space in a war with Russia?

@GrowlingSidewinder

4 жыл бұрын

Bob Clapp Im not really qualified to comment on this at all. But if you want me to give my 2 cents just for the sake of it. I think no; Not like NATO is use to doing in previous conflicts like Iraq or lybia. They may hold some sort on control or superiority for brief periods but the Russians will challenge it consistently. And in some situations I think the Russians may find themselves in a position of advantage. That's all assuming they don't nuke each other before the air conflict even takes shape.

@castor3020

4 жыл бұрын

Rob, you should really google Russian air defence capability. They don't need planes to hold their air space. But they cant match NATO for taking control either.

With the Mirage 2000 in maneuver against his 27 the 2000 m you have to slow down in closed, virages maneuvers.

@robleyusuf2566

4 жыл бұрын

The SU 27 will do the copra manoeuvre

this online multiplayer

I will probably spend all my time mastering the Sukhois

Sukhoi Su-27, a fighter so good it doesn't only easily kill things. It easily kills things _with ease_ .

what was the AI set to for the Mirages?

AI difficulty setting?

@GrowlingSidewinder

6 жыл бұрын

always excellent. I never have it lower.

@michaelwithstand

6 жыл бұрын

THEN WOW, JUST WOW!

I did enjoy that, but I don't think the Mirage pilots were quite as pleased at the outcome.

Which one is more manuvrable su-27 or f-18 hornet?

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

im no expert on this at all, but I think the hornet is more maneuverable, but the su27 is more stable at those same low speeds at the cost of slight maneuverability. just my 2 cents.

@georgegeorge9361

5 жыл бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder okay thanks for the explanation

@r.i.p2464

5 жыл бұрын

Growling Sidewinder have you tried overriding the su’s fbw? Its dangerous if you pulled too hard, it could induce inverted flat spin but it’ll give you more alpha than with fbw. Can you test this regarding maneuverability between 27 and 18

@inteamloki

5 жыл бұрын

I think it’s something like this: F-18 DTV > Su-27 > F-18 Su-27 is a flying wing project - its lifting force will be higher at any speed, which makes it safer to perform critical maneuvers at low altitude and speeds close to stalling. Hornet cant do that due to its airframe design. But deflection thrust vector is a very powerful support for late F-18s and with it they have the advantage of maneuverability. Su-27 doesnt have DTV. P.S. Sorry for my russian english. Its hard to read, i understand =)

They are peruvians, not french

need to add Eurofighter

Hey guys, is just a game. I'm sure if he was piloting a Mirage 2000 against 3 Sukhoi su 27, the results would be the same.It's more the pilot than the aircraft. On the other side, India is using both Mirage 2000 and Sukhoi su-30, but 90% of the times it used the Mirage for the operations in Pakistan, over the Sukhoi. I suppose this means something.The Greek airforce got few Mirage 2000 and lots of f16 block 52. On the dogfights with the turkish f16 block 50, always sending the Mirage, not the block 52. Mirage is a very capable aircraft, especially the 2000 5mk2 variant and the 2000 9. Also there is this video and few others, proving exactly this: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hKuGqs2FdbrKYtI.html

Ok, now do it with just guns lol

Darth Vader said "most impressive".

You can´t neither judge your plane nor the capabilities the of other planes when dogfighting against the AI. Misleading video.

I thought the Mirage was supposed to be THE aircraft to pick for a dogfight. Here, 3 didn't stand a chance. Was speed a factor? Meaning, did you set the initial speed to benefit the corner speed of the Sukhoi and handicap the Mirage?

@GrowlingSidewinder

6 жыл бұрын

I don't believe it was a speed factor. both mirage and sukhoi started at 500 knots I believe. I personally think however this dogfight was designed the su27 had every advantage. the delta wing design of the mirage made it a great dog fighter for its time but when the sukhoi 27's came out they blew that maneuverability out of the water (su27 came out in the 1980s vs Mirage that was a decade before that). I feel like this fight came down entirely to general maneuverability. and of course the helmet mounted aiming of the su27.

@GrowlingSidewinder

6 жыл бұрын

agreed, and they really didnt have a lot of reaction time to be fair, the first 2 mirages were dead with in 20 seconds of the merge.

@JoJo-vm8vk

5 жыл бұрын

Growling Sidewinder No, the Mirage 2000C was fielded in 1986. It’s an interceptor with good dogfight capacity. But contrary to F-16 it isn’t designed with dogfight in mind. Contrary to F-16A the Mirage 2000 was fielded with IFF interrogator, BVR Fox 1 missile and integrated ECM.

@hind6799

5 жыл бұрын

Two letters that answer all your questions: AI

1 dove bird against 3 sparrows

Amazing the Sukhoi is the best plane ever, it is so maneuverable only lot of allied planes could bring Sukhoi pilot down. You should work for the new upcomming Top Gun movie or for an fan movie project. And what if they made a movie of an Iranian pilot team, and where they show the characters of the pilots and there strugle in live so the movie goers will care for the pilot character. And then in the movie when they are called to fight for their country they win?

NONE of those mirage pilots are going home....

the miralles xd

The SU-27 is a great dogfighting aircraft and was made to engage in BVR fights with its powerful radar. In a fight like this there would have been a BVR engagement with the advantage clearly given to the Sukhoi. What's wrong with this video is the M-2000s didn't use any countermeasures....at all! And they didn't use evasive maneuvering....at all! WTF? 😕

Which game is this??? (Name of the game)

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

digital combat simulator

@timotheosstratidakis4075

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks , man!!!

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

my pleasure

Not fair fight. Others must be armed and use fox-2 too, or all at you should fight only with guns. And Su-27 could have a problem - only 180 30mm rounds on board, against 3 planes.

WTF just happened

please stop it, it is funny from your side

i dont like ho< you bulli M2000 :(

Looks like AI does not even try to fight

@GrowlingSidewinder

5 жыл бұрын

Randomnick123 lol ya the Ai is dumb that's why i moved to PVP

I've heard from a lot of pilots, including my older brother that the M2000 is usually the butt of a lot of jokes because it never does very well lol.

@overstack7128

4 жыл бұрын

witch isn't true in fact

Try with F35...... I bet even worse than the Mirage. The F35 has bad wing area to weight ratio, to much drag with double vertical rodders and only one engine.

Are you playing in the bathroom?