Interesting discussion. The words, "reconstruction of the passage differently" is like a pretty way of saying taqquiya or abrogation. Still nothing new under the sun 🌞

I am impressed with all the hard work an time needed to evaluate the Sanaa Palimpsest, thank you Dr. Asma and Dr. Brubaker for such an effort. God bless!!!

Thank you for your work Dr. Brubaker!

@rathernot6660

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. You proved Islam's authenticity

Thanks, sir!

@thangbunaing6885

3 жыл бұрын

Muslims are shivering now in fear as the imperfections of quran are exposed! Gocha!

@alangervasis

3 жыл бұрын

@Zack Smith The standard narrative has HOLES in it 😂😂. Even islamic scholars accidentally said it.

@falkenauge4.0ace8

3 жыл бұрын

@Zack Smith stupid theories are not a refutation.

Thank you for your work. This is a great talk.

Thank you for all your work.

Really good video (as was its predecessor) Hopefully, sometime in the future you do a video where Dr. Hilali gets to interview you. By the way, I really appreciated her bringing up that there is an ethical issue in reconstructing a palimpsest. I'm not sure why that obvious fact never occurred to me but I'm glad she raised that issue. Ya learn something every day and that was my lesson. Thanks Dr. Brubaker. Thanks Dr. Hilali

Love the discussion and the honest spirit of scholarship!

The fact that there are two different texts on the same page speaks of dishonesty. Ideas are being erased, not spelling mistakes.

@keyurpatel1982

3 жыл бұрын

True, very true.

@zahideshaque6513

3 жыл бұрын

those were palimpsests. Ie they were not mean to be included inside a book but rather as draft.

@syeddr6066

3 жыл бұрын

Says the man who is a scholar,teacher himself and well versed in hijazi,kufic and ancient arabic sripts without skeleton dots and diacratical marks..... Even the well versed scholars found little difficulty in decoding and finally here's the genius started mocking like he has gone through the whole text....lol

@ppac300

Жыл бұрын

@@syeddr6066 one doesn’t eveb need to be an expert in Arabic or Islamic studies to see that there are holes in the narrative. It is plain to see that the attempts to explain and dismiss these holes falls flat and raises more questions. These holes tend to go deeper and deeper upon investigation.

@gemilangrahmandhika7509

2 ай бұрын

What do you mean? Papyrus/Writing medias are very valuable assets back then, the don't just scrap and get new media that easy. It's incomparable with today papers which you could get from any stores. Of course, there would be writing overrides. they don't need to be the same subject. Also, it's ridiculous to expect anyone to not make any mistakes in writing process. Would you assume it's the process of copying from other fixed texts?

Very informative that's for your effort to share valuable information.

Thanks Dr. Daniel and Asma

I truly wish I could read Arabic! How wonderful it would be to be able to read for myself what this says and be able to compare and contrast. Thanks Mr Brubaker!

@keyurpatel1982

3 жыл бұрын

Too many critics of Islam do not make an effort to learn Arabic.

@billshepherd5090

3 жыл бұрын

I like to tell the ppl that say that to me: I have no desire to learn Arabic. If muslim scholars can’t or won’t translate it truthfully says more about them and is-lame than it does about me.

@tdsdave

3 жыл бұрын

It not a matter of learning just arabic , the earliest classical arabic scripts lack diacritical marks , as written you can choose/interpret what marks should be present , and these choices can change what the word is that you derive from the inked marks. These marks were added later to written Arabic so someone ~100 years after went through this process and those choices are what we have today ( at least if we just ignore the variations across Qurans we have today, and variations we have in historical scripts that have survived) . You also have that >1000 years have passed in the language and word usages evolve , what is meant by word today might not be the same as >1000 years ago. Learning modern arabic is just the tip of the iceberg of the skills you need to do this kind of analysis.

@randomchannelname24

3 жыл бұрын

@@tdsdave because a lot of the texts just have rasm, right?

@lindaclark6148

3 жыл бұрын

@@billshepherd5090 This is a really good observation Bill.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I think the Doctor should go to some of the remote Muslim villages and see that the Quran taught by the teacher to the students is still done not on paper but on slates, Skin, Leaves, Stone, and other materials with ink made locally by mud or tree barks or coloured stone...because to bu paper is too expensive for them...second he should visit a mosque during Ramadan and see for himself that till today there are people behind the reciter to correct the mistake, and it has been like this from the time of The Prophet (PBUH)...i think Muslims should not be upset by his work because he is helping Muslims indirectly in sealing the authenticity of the Quran

@ufh2101

2 жыл бұрын

I’m doing my PhD on this subject, and I couldn’t agree with you more. I read Dan’s book, and I felt he strengthened the argument of the Quran’s preservation.

@atutultataatutul2026

Жыл бұрын

Excellent answer

The Quran is transmitting from the day one till today through the mutual-asserted sources النقل المتواتر, means that all Muslims have to memorize the Quran without the need of a manuscript, you can't learn the Quran by just reading it without a teacher to guide you through its proper pronunciations. Second this video didn't mention the multiple readings القراءات of the Quran in which Allah made it easy for early Muslims whom come from different Arab tribes, mostly illiterate, to recite the Quran in theirs dialect. There isn't many versions of the Quran, as this video suggest, but MANY READINGS that all agree on the meaning with minor differences. The multiple readings in the Quran is existing in the Uthmanic Mushaf as much as the Uthmanic rasm الرسم font can stand it. Uthman sent a teacher with each copy of the Quran to teach the Muslims how to recite it properly, it wasn't send it as some suggest for people to figure out how to recite it on their own. Finally, the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) not only recite the Quran to the Muslims but he used have many scribes wrote the Quran on whatever materials they had, therefore the Quran was preserved through memorization and writing from the beginning. Anyone wants to compare the Quran with the New Testament should read, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman to appreciate the miracle of the Quran preservation, Allah says in the Quran "9. Surely We [Allah] revealed the Message, and We will surely preserve it." [Quran 15:9] إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ (9)" سورة الحجر " For whom they want know the truth of the Quran, I recommend this book: The History of The Qur'anic Text: From Revelation to Compilation: A Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments by Muhammad Mustafa Al-Azami A contradiction if the verse said two different meanings at the same time. To understand the Quran, you need to take the Quran in totality plus use the authenticated sound Hadith to support your understanding of the Quran. Again, there are no versions of Quran, but readings (aka recitations) also you have no clue of the styles of the Arabic language and how it does work, for example the a sentence can be written in various ways with the same exact meanings or slight difference in one word that support each other meanings in the other readings, that is why the Ten recitations is very important tool in Quran exegesis . Even Muslim scholars wrote books about this multiple readings, and any good reciter of the Quran aware of them. Theology is about God, jurisprudence is about laws that govern believers in this world, again read more about the Jewish traditions, Christianity doesn't know this type of difference, I guess!! The Theology of Quran is one, pure monotheism, but the jurisprudence can be different in degree not quality, you can say that all Muslims don't eat pork, they pray, they fast, but they can be different legal rules regarding minor things that vary according to circumstances and conditions making Sharia Law (Islamic Law) flexible to time and place. This hadith shows that this recitations/facets go back to the prpohet himself: ‘Umar ibn al-Khattāb (may Allah be pleased with him) reported: I heard Hishām ibn Hakīm recite Sūrat al-Furqān during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him). I listened to his recitation and noticed that he recited it in many ways which the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) had not taught me. So I was about to jump upon him during the prayer, but I waited till he finished the prayer, whereupon I seized him by either his upper garment or mine and asked him: "Who taught you how to recite this Sūrah?" He replied: "The Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) taught me how to recite it." So I said to him: "You have told a lie! By Allah, the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) taught me this Sūrah which I have heard you recite." So I set forth, leading him to the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him). I said: "O the Messenger of Allah, I heard this man recite Sūrat al-Furqān in ways which you have not taught me, and you taught me how to recite it." On that, the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "O ‘Umar, let go of him! Recite, O Hishām." So Hishām recited before him in the way I had heard him recite. the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "It was revealed like this." Then the Messenger of Allah (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Recite, O ‘Umar!" So I recited it. The Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said: "It was revealed like this." And then he added: "Indeed, this Qur’an has been revealed in seven different ways, so recite it in the way that is easy for you." Sahih/Authentic. - [Al-Bukhari and Muslim] Anyway, the Quran exactly addresses people like you, Allah says in the Quran: "7. It is He who revealed to you the Book. Some of its verses are definitive; they are the foundation of the Book, and others are unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation, they follow the unspecific part, seeking dissent, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none knows its interpretation except God and those firmly rooted in knowledge say, “We believe in it; all is from our Lord.” But none recollects except those with understanding." [Quran 3:7]

we trust your work

Dr Daniel, the outcome of the discussion if could be explicitly summarised.......

Oh, the Taste of Ironie 😅 do you know the german saying: "In der Not frisst der Teufel Fliegen."? 🙌🌈❤️

Keep up the good work, I think watching sneakers corner with Murad might help. he pointed out a guy named Haggith was credited by Islamic scholars as having changed at least 11 contextual words in the Quran.

Hello doc, how to access dr hilali's 'sanaa palimpsest book' pdf file or complete lower text Sana'a manuscripts pdf files?

Keep up good work....

Dr Asma needs to prove that why should Surat "Tawba" begins without "basmallah" in early manuscripts, when she has already known that Sanaa's palempseste is the earliest one. Then, the word "لا تقل" is one variant among other possible variants that make sense in the sentence, such as "الأنفال".

@elmundir

2 жыл бұрын

Look at 12 Mon she responded perfectly and destroyed forever the "anfal theory"

What does she mean about "experience of addition" vs "interpretation of test"

Hi Dr Dan

Thank you both for your amazing work. Is it possible to have timestamps in the description? That way, people who are already educated on the subject can fast forward to the missing points that interest them. Thank you for considering it.

So you guys actually believe scribes didn’t make mistakes when they were writing down the Quran. It’s normal you people have to understand that the Quran is a memorized text and that is why if a memorizer finds a mistake he corrects it . It’s not like the Bible where most people haven’t even memorized one page of the Bible. Muslims read at least 20 surahs a day plus the whole Quran in Ramadan.

@lauren-ashleyblack8610

3 жыл бұрын

I think people are bringing this up because a lot of Muslim apologist have said "The Quran is perfectly preserved, not a letter had changed" and a lot of western Muslims believe that til Dr. Yasir Qadhi said it wasn't. Also, the Quran is much shorter than the Bible so it doesn't take as long to read, and memorising the Bible word for word isn't as important to Christians, but understanding what it is saying is very important. "The Qur'an consists of 114 chapters. The total number of verses is 6,666. and it is compiled as one book. The Bible is much longer than the Qur'an. The King James Version consists of 1,189 chapters (929 in the Old Testament and 260 in the New Testament), and a total of 41,173 verses (33,214 in the Old Testament and 7,959 in the New Testament)"

@ayy9536

3 жыл бұрын

@@lauren-ashleyblack8610 I agree with you on the point that the Bible is longer. On the point of Muslims saying a letter has not changed is a miss understanding on most Muslims . What Muslims claim is that the Quran has not been changed since the time of prophet Mohammed as it was memorized by a lot of Muslims and the Muslims were hesitant to compile the Quran . only after some memorizers where killed in battle did the Muslims compile it into a complete book. So yes it is preserved perfectly.

@ACF1901

3 жыл бұрын

@@lauren-ashleyblack8610 yes exactly. And the bible was never written for the purpose of memorisation, whereas the quran is apparently written with a poetic quality making it easier to memorise. Even then there's still many variations of the quran.

@ACF1901

3 жыл бұрын

@@ayy9536 and despite their only being "one quran"... uthman approved 7 recitations, today there's over 31 different forms of recitation. That's a multiplication, not a preservation of the revelation. The most popular recitation is the Hafs quran, and its in the Iraqi dialect, when the hadiths says the quran is to be recited in the qureshi dialect.

@ayy9536

3 жыл бұрын

@@ACF1901 yes you are correct uthman r.a approved the seven modes that prophet Mohammed recited . This is not an issue to Muslims and the qirrat or ways you can recite the Quran is 7 and some scholars agree at 10 . So if the 7 modes or ahruf were recited by prophet Mohammed a.s and then memorized by different companions and uthman authorized scribes to write it down. No issue there. As far as there being 31 qurans there’s some truth to this as people mix the qiratts from each other . Like say hafs and kaloon but are not acceptable to be read out in mosques. Hafs and asim is about 95 percent and the rest in warsh .here is a list : 1. Naafi’ Al-Madani. (Madinah) Imam Malik (R.A) has recited in this way . Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal most of the time has recited the Holy Quran in this manner. The two Qaris who preserved this recitation are Qaloon and Warsh and this is called the lines. 2. Ibn Katheer Al-Makki. (Makkah) Imam Shafi recited The Quran in this manner. The two Qaris who preserved this recitation are Al-Buzzi and Qumbul. 3. Abu Amr Al-Basri (Basra). The two Qaris who preserved this reading manner of the holy Quran are Ad-Doori and As-Soosi. 4. Ibn Aamir Ash-Shami (Syria). The two Qaris who Recited with this recitation method are Hishaam and Ibn Zakwan. 5. Asim al-Kufi (Kofah). Imaam Abu Hanifa (R) recited with this way of recitation. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal often recited in this manner. The Two Qaris who preserved this recitation of Quran are Shuba and Hafs. That is why it is called Hafs An Asim 6. Hamzah Al-Kufi (Kofah). The two Qaris who preserved this recitation of the holy Quran are Khalaf (who also has his own Qira’at #10) and Khallad. 7. Al-Kisaa’i. The two Qaris who preserved this way of recitation of Quran are Al-Layth and Ad-Doori (same one as before). 8. Abu Ja’far Al-Madanee (Madinah). The two Qaris who preserved this way of recitation are Isa and Sulayman. 9. Yaqub ibn Al-Basri (Basra). Imam Bukhari is reported that he has recited in this manner of the recitation. The two famous Qaris who narrated this recitation are Ruways and Rooh. 10. Khalaf (same one who preserved Hamzah’s recitation, but this is his own method of recitation of Quran as well) The two Qaris who recited this recitation are Ishaq and iddris.

have you considered putting a multispectral photo archive of the Sana'a palimpsests?

The early manuscripts you've shown usually have 'stretched out' writing (I don't know the technical word for this). Wouldn't this cast doubt on the traditional explanation-- that papyri/parchment were expensive? If they were expensive wouldn't the writers have tried to fit as many words on a page as possible instead of writing in a style that 'stretches' the words out?

@variantquran4505

3 жыл бұрын

This is the first time I have had this particular question. Well, you are correct that the writing is somewhat large on the page. However, the pages are not inefficient; quite a bit of text can fit. As to why this style took root at that time period, I don't know completely. But I don't think that we need to imagine that they were writing on golden tablets, just that someone writing a shopping list or practicing their letters would not use fine stationery, whereas if they were producing a book to be bound and used for many years to come, they would use finer and more expensive materials. But one other thing that may be of interest here is that in the hijazi style, the writing extends typically nearly all the way to the edge of the page, with no room left for margins. This was probably partly in order to maximize the utility of the writing material. Good question, thanks. DB

@ferengiprophet2185

3 жыл бұрын

@@variantquran4505 Thank you and I love your channel.

Ok wait I didn't follow her manuscript explanation. So end of surah Al-Anfal then a line indicating demarcation between it and Surah At-Tawba. Then Bismillah then 1st words of At-Tawba then it says "don't rest Bismillah" then restarts At-Tawba? Is this the sequence? Which parts are bottom layer and which parts are top layer or is this mix of the two? We know At-Tawba has no Bismillah so if this manuscript was a teacher's guide or students notes then is it instructing that you should not read Bismillah here? Please clarify.

One can speculate forever!

The truth shall prevail... God bless.. Dr.Bubaker 🐷🕋🐷

@charlesfinney607

3 жыл бұрын

@Shashank Tripathi 👍😂

@think-islam-channel

3 жыл бұрын

The truth will prevail. God punish brubaker and his supporters?

@theguyver4934

3 жыл бұрын

One question is it true that there are different versions with different meanings sincerely from a muslim

@think-islam-channel

3 жыл бұрын

@@theguyver4934 You are asking that question to a childish atheist who hates Islam. What kind of an answer will you expect?

@theguyver4934

3 жыл бұрын

@@think-islam-channel - Come on man even i as a muslim get curious of things i just want to

Dr Hilali, what a fox! Great presentation too

Ahhh, yes. When I want to have a student practice, it is the expensive parchment I use, not the cheap papyrus or clay shards. Definitely. As long as it is B quality parchment, that's fine.

CIRA International has claimed in one of their clip that you are working with them. Is that true?

Why would flying to Sanna and touching the manuscript be of important for understanding of text?

DB ,has done the contrary ,he has proven the authenticity of the Holy Quran, though his intention was something els..

Unnecessarily noisily screaming about school exercises...! They were more or less mostly, works in progress. Let us be rational, be cool, be smart... More importantly, let us be as honest as possible.

How about you send it to a proper lab for analysis rather than carrying your hand held UV light that's like taking a stethoscope to your doctor's office.

A quick question; is Dr. Asma Hilali coming from a Muslim perspective?

@nathandurant2825

Жыл бұрын

What is a Muslim perspective? That the Qur'an is identical word for word and dot for dot as it was beamed down to Muhammad from God ? Would you trust a scholar that believed that disproven lie?

@user-wc7ku7ud3e

5 ай бұрын

هي باحثه تحتكم للعلم قبل اي شيء لو عرفت كيف يتعامل المسلمين مع القران لن تطرح سؤالك ياسيدي المسلمين من زمن النبي يتلون القران في كل صلاه يقر}ن القران في كل الوقت نحن نحفظ القران نتلوه م الذاكره لو دخلت اي مسجد وتابعت الصلاه ستجد لو أخطأ الامام وهو يقرأ القران سيصحح له اكثر من مصلي وراءه المصاحف من زمن النبي للان لم يحدث فيها تغير يوجد مصحف عليه خاتم النبي وعليه تاريخ من زمن النبي وتم تحليله بالكربون وتحليل طيفي ف بريتانيا هو من زمن النبي ونفس القران اللذي معنا الان

Ok

Alla only speak arabic

@keyurpatel1982

3 жыл бұрын

The father of Arabic grammar Abu Amr ibn Al-Ala was born a 100 years after Muhammad's death. It was he who set the rules of Arabic grammar. Imagine an almighty God has to confirm to the rules of Arabic grammar, a man made language.

@worldchanger7197

3 жыл бұрын

@@keyurpatel1982 ikr

@keyurpatel1982

3 жыл бұрын

@Zack Smith The father of Arabic grammar, Abu Amr ibn al-Ala was born a 100 years after Muhammad's death. It is he who set the rules of Arabic grammar. The Nastalik script is a derivative of the Nabatean script which is also man made. There are plenty of Arabic mistakes in the Koran. Just think of it for a while. How can the word of God be bound by the rules of Arabic grammar ? You Muslims claim that the Koran is the word of god yet there are silly things like the verse below : --Quran 33:50 O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful. Quran 33:50----------- The Koran is specifically permitting the marriage of cousins. How can such a book be from God. ? Ali married his own cousin, Fatimah which is itself morally repulsive. Muhammad married Zainab bint Jahsh who is his aunt's daughter. Shameless fellow. For Hindus, cousin marriages are a repulsive practice.

@keyurpatel1982

3 жыл бұрын

@Zack Smith Cousin Marriage is bad and the Koran has directly caused deformed children to be born. Therefore the Koran has misguided Muslims as far as marriages go. So what if Hindu deities married their sisters. What has that to do with me ?

@keyurpatel1982

3 жыл бұрын

@Zack Smith what bull shit you talk ? What does it mean if Western couples have children with down syndrome ? Does that somehow absolvethe Koran of the mistake it makes when it encourages cousin marriages ? cousin marriages are wrong and the Quran must be condemned and rejected because it is encouraging such immoral marriages.

dr. Bribacker, if you invite other scholars like this lady, and have 'meaningfull' talks like this one, I guess this channel has a poor futur..

@user-wc7ku7ud3e

5 ай бұрын

انت لاترضي بالنتاءج اللتي وصلت اليها الباحثه المتخصصه انت تريد ان تحقق امنيتك انت تريد محو القران واثبات ان فيه اخطاء ياسيدي البحث العلمي لايعتمد علي العواطف والامنيات

Amazon link does not work for me

No anyMuslims says Because we have This or thatanuscript that we believe Islam and Quran. In Quran Allah says that Quran will be protected and by Heart people Memorized from time of Prophet till now. That's why ISLAM IS NUMBER ONE RELIGION ON EARTH.

For Muslims the Holy Quran is the Absolute Truth. You agree or disagree ,that is irrelevant. 🐷Charles finney🐷

@variantquran4505

Жыл бұрын

That is interesting but not really relevant to this channel. Whether the Quran is true or not is another topic altogether. I am principally working to study the history of the transmission of the text itself. But thank you for the comment.

@user-wc7ku7ud3e

5 ай бұрын

النص انتقل شفاهه كل المسلمين يقرأون القران كل يوم في الصلوات ويقرؤن القران في اوقات اليوم تعبدا وتفهما له ياسيدي القران الكريم كتبه النبي بيده وجمع الايات والسور في مصاحف وعمل مصاحف ارسلها للمدن ومع كل مصحف رجل مسلم يقرأ للناس القران لان القران ينتقل بالصوت قبل الكتابه يوجد مصحف من زمن النبي علي كل صفحه في المصحف خاتم النبي ووضع علامه في نهايه كل صفحه ليمنع اي انسان ان يضيف كلمه (كما نكتب الشيك الان) النبي يحترس من التحريف المصحف عليه التاريخ الهجري للسنه 11 من الهجره اي في حياه النبي ارسل جزء من الورق لبريتانيا لاختبار الكربون والتحليل الطيفي وثبت انه من زمن معاصر للنبي مع وجود هامش خطأ تحليل الكربون المصحف من جلد البقر المعالج كيماءي ياسيدي انا رأيت وثاءق سياسيه علي ورق بردي بعد وفاه النبي 68سنه يكتبون بعض الكلمات باخطاء املاءيه لكن المسلمين حريصين جدا مع المصاحف انتم تحملون ثقافه مثقله باتهامات للكتاب المقدس العهدين القديم والجديد وتحاولون اسقاط ذلك علي المصحف @@variantquran4505

Were the hel you got your PhD I'm shocked do you even know Arabic

Watch mr. mohamed Messiah who worked the German scholar who worked on the book

Brubaker's book is a disgrace. His grasp of Arabic is less than childlike and it's clear that his evangelical craziness colours everything he says and writes...

Why the term Coran was falsly translated as قرائة originating from قرأ despite this term actually etymological translation is originating from قرن ! Read the 10 books of Dr. Mohamed Shahrour!

@MuhammadAli-vp7qt

Жыл бұрын

No, you arrogant ignorant قرآن is from the same root as اقرأ What means "Read/Recite"..

You look. Like mandi.

You think we gonna take a women serious on talking about the word of God 😂😂

@khadijakhadija4276

2 жыл бұрын

wow

Super cringe! What is this? 😂

If I was this guy, I would bow my head in shame, for producing a book that is riddled with lies and propaganda.Or thousands of years, this is the way Christian scholars will resort to to spread Christuanity, and that's with deceipt and lies.😢