*not sure how to make a ""dagger, dagger, dagger"" attack yet 💥 Tomb Of Gyzaengaxx: gooeycube.com/bwb

@MemphiStig

4 ай бұрын

You have to wear the ruby slippers and click your heels each time you say "dagger."

@monkeyfoo999

4 ай бұрын

whats your current replacement system for initiative?

@davidbeppler3032

4 ай бұрын

Have you played Forge out of Chaos? Best leveling system I have ever seen. Also great combat system. The rest of the game is trash.

@Myllorelion

4 ай бұрын

No, but you DID learn how to make a Dagger, Dagger attack.. in DAGGERheart! Dagger Dagger Daggerheart!

The only reason I've kept initiative is because some of my players are anxious about speaking up - in a game where its first to talk goes first those people will always go at the end of the round when i have to come to them and ask for their action. That also means they'll always get less involved in fights as since its rare you complete and exact number of rounds.

@Grakesch

4 ай бұрын

It certainly can be a thing that some players might always take initiative when possible while others just wait until asked to do their turn. However, I can see this happening in actual combat where a timid mage only acts when necessary. But I am confidend there will be ways to fix this daggerheart if really needed.

@Chris3s

4 ай бұрын

yea I agree, especially online, on west marches or new groups having initiative keeps everything going. I play many sessions in Lancer and having no initiative is a nightmare

@Chris3s

4 ай бұрын

in that case, there can still be an initiative, but if you want more strategy or RP included, you could include delaying your turns if you want to have that timid mage@@Grakesch

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

That's a good case for turn order, but I still prefer going around the table (or what my group is currently trying, randomly drawing cards for turn order) so it doesn't pause the game to roll and organize each turn. Like most things, it comes down to group preference.

@DragonFlagonWagon

4 ай бұрын

I make sure to call on each player if they haven't acted yet. Eventually they become more comfortable with practice.

So they have made the Action Economy a literal economy? 🤯

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

Micro transactions to get reaction/bonus action DLC

@davidbeppler3032

4 ай бұрын

Yes. Throwing actual dollars at a GM will increase your chances of winning a fight. I prefer $5's and $10's. $20's are always welcome for an instant crit or god like intervention. GM gotta pay rent.

@hfar_in_the_sky

Ай бұрын

@@davidbeppler3032 Pro-tip: don’t try this with a roll of nickels. Especially if you’re throwing them. Don’t ask me how I know

Great video. I am intrigued. I think the death mechanics are actually terrific--simple and fun.-Keep building! -Professor DM

@LostWhits

4 ай бұрын

Removing the need for Initiative rolls, and counting 5ft distances. Reminded me of your ideas. I think a UDT would be handy for Daggerheart.

@WhatIfBrigade

4 ай бұрын

I like that the death options are either an automatic retaliation critical, become crippled emotionally or 50/50 chance you die. I think a lot more players would accept death if it meant they get to go out in a blaze of glory. And if death saves permanently cost the character something they'd also have more meaning. In this case I suspect a character eventually runs out of hope slots and is unusable long before that.

This feels like a thing that'll go over a lot better in already established groups .. than with strangers not bound by professionality

@ChicCanyon

3 ай бұрын

Good thing most board games arent played with strangers

@FulcanMal

3 ай бұрын

@@ChicCanyon In this world of the internet, I can't tell if this is sarcasm. Just in case it's not, playing board games with strangers is very common.

@ChicCanyon

3 ай бұрын

@FulcanMal it definitely isnt very common. It might occur but it isnt very common. Playing board games at all in any circumstance isnt very common.

@FulcanMal

3 ай бұрын

@@ChicCanyonWhat are you talking about? There are boardgame meetups all over the place. Friendly local game stores with board game nights. Bars that host board game nights...I go to these regularly and meet new people all the time.

@ChicCanyon

3 ай бұрын

@FulcanMal lets be clear: you and yooure niche hobbies =/= common. Not anymore than my niche hobbies = common. Common would prevalent. This is not prevalent. At all. In any way. Its nearly the definition of niche.

Loved the single lens sunglasses on Pointy Hat

@watchthegameplay

4 ай бұрын

Would that make it just a "sunglass"?

@marcusdowning

4 ай бұрын

A "sunmonocle"?

that movement rule sounds so fun, you can use all kinds of terrains, props, etc without having to overlay a grid on it... you can even change the scale based on the specific combat encounter (want to do a BIG castle fight, use smaller range guides, want to do a single room bar brawl, use longer range guides).

I personally find turn order to be fun as it lets players automatically go into combat with some preconcieved notion. I was quick to action. I was caught off guard. etc. It also lets them know when their turn is and allows them to plan accordingly if they are not comfortable with strategizing with the other players (albeit, that is specifically an issue with my players)

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

On the same token, I feel like I've seen too many times where players had a preconceived notion, then the initiative roll made them go too soon or have to wait too long for what they had planned. It's all about group preference, and initiative is the default for most people because of 5e, but I think people have more freedom to plan without being locked into an order.

@user-jt1js5mr3f

4 ай бұрын

@@BobWorldBuilder I think it also forces players to be far more engaged. I mean, when they feel they have time to wait between turns, how many ACTUALLY spend that time planning to make their turn as efficient as possible? 😉

@williamstriker2299

4 ай бұрын

You can take ready actions if you are not ready to take an action. Or use a homebrew where, if you are higher on the initiative, you may drop to a lower initiative. But I feel like you should reward players with characters that are faster (i.e. higher dex). Give them more choices. But relying on initiative of the player and not the character makes the game into an "extroverts win" mechanic. My girlfriend is very quiet at the table but often gets really into the combat. Without initiative, I can see her going last every round.

@timidwolf

4 ай бұрын

This is why I'm a fan of the Edge of the Empire turn order, all players still roll initiative for their characters and the GM for all NPCs, but they are just entered as PC and NPC slots in the initiative track. So when a PC slot comes up, any player that hasn't acted that round yet can have their turn. It's sort of a mix of the two, there is an order but you can swap that order.

@fred_derf

4 ай бұрын

@@BobWorldBuilder, writes _"then the initiative roll made them go too soon"_ You can always simply delay and go at any time until your next turn.

As someone who is designing his own ttrpg, i experimened with rolless initiatives but if felt naked not rolling the dice. Part of the fun of the game is rolling dice

@AtticusKarpenter

3 ай бұрын

The more meaningful each roll of the dice the better. If you have fun from rolling dice as it is you can just roll them without TTRPG, or add more dice rolling for every little action in the game (but majority of the players would not like this). If you keeping initiative roll then at least make it do some meaningful stuff besides order of turns - like, maybe character lose some of its defence if he rolled really bad (beneath certain threshold) or something, and/or have advantage on attack against enemies that he surpassed on initiative roll by certain number. This will make really high initiative desirable, not just for taking first turn. (Most radical in this, of course Exalted 3e where initiative basically your temporary hp AND attack dice pool lol)

I like combat for The One Ring. There’s no rolling initiative, and unless there’s an ambush, all players go first and then all enemies. At the top of the round, players choose a stance (forward, open, defensive, and rearward) and then take their turns in stance order. When switching from an aggressive forward to defensive, the mechanics encourage the feeling of literally falling back. Because you can share stance order with someone else, when two players were engaged with the same final enemy, instead of going one at a time, I had them roll together as a duo attack and they described how they tag teamed this orc. It makes for neat collaboration. Once I get the hang of it, I feel it’ll run so much smoother and I love that it’s different.

@butterflysrage

4 ай бұрын

I think that's how I'll run it as well. I've played with some very shy players (at first, wow did they open up after some time!), so ensuring they get a chance to go is going to be important at my table.

@user-jt1js5mr3f

4 ай бұрын

@@butterflysrage I love how these games can help people open up!

@tomc.5704

4 ай бұрын

That sounds awesome, jotting it down to keep in my back pocket

@user-jt1js5mr3f

4 ай бұрын

@@tomc.5704 it works well for The One Ring system. Those in forward gain an Advantage to attack, those in Open attack normally, those in Defensive get a disadvantage to attack, and those in rearward are the only ones who can use range. Enemies mirror whatever stance the players take. Ryan of the North has a good video covering combat, if you’re interested!

@DeadMarsh

3 ай бұрын

Actually there is a sort of fixed chosen initiative, with stances. It’s definitely more organized than Daggerfart. Which seems like a mess-and a big burden on the GM so far. Not a fan.

I really like those zones for distances. Since a lot of my groups combat is theater of the mind, this conceptualization is really succinct.

@opscontaylor8195

4 ай бұрын

This has been a thing since FATE, which likely took it from Fudge, which has been around since 1992. There are all sorts of things out there better for TotM once you get away from the D20 Framework.

@thatepicwizardguy

4 ай бұрын

Very far measurement doesnt work because theres no definitive distance meaning it ends up requiring clarification every time its used if somebody wants to close distance. Otherwise its okayish but keeping track without a board can be a massive pain since most people cant quanitfy the space through how many moves it took to get from point A to point B... but they can more easily with a measurement

@datDrowningFish

4 ай бұрын

@@thatepicwizardguy I mean, if I had a longbow, my first question would be "is the target within longbow range?" It's not that big of a problem. It's not perfect, but it's good if, like me, you can't always play with a battle map.

@TheRewyn

4 ай бұрын

You should check out Exalted Essence, which comes from a lovely (if not crunchy) system which has been using the concept of zones for years and is theater of the mind as its core.

@kevoreilly6557

4 ай бұрын

Not new in the slightest … pretty standard for “modern” games

I feel the initiative change will be harder for new players, or people who don’t know each other very well. I feel like this could also open up a cavity for problem players to take the spotlight and go first each round. Ik problem players will always be problem players but I personally enjoy the initiative process

Looks like there is some heavy influence from Powered by the Apocalypse. It will be interesting to see how much traction this game gets once it's actually in the wild. Having a huge fan base to draw on certainly gives it an advantage coming out of the gate.

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's a fun game (based on my limited experience with it), but I think whether or not people give it a chance will depend mostly on how much they promote it in their own shows

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

Yea I love the monsters act on fear throughout the player turns instead of always in a predictable manner

Not gonna lie, I am interested in trying this. I never like roleplay fights just for the sake of having them. But this seems interesting and narrative driven, without making it too simple.

@mirrikybird

4 ай бұрын

There are a lot of great systems like Thirsty Sword Lesbians that lean much more heavily into roleplay where combat almost becomes a roleplay "action". In the case of TSL, combat is literally a single ability (another ability score is "kiss dangerously" which gives an idea of the style of emotion-based roleplay game it is going for)

It’s curious that, because of the way that enemies and characters function completely differently in combat, you can’t really have any combat between NPCs or monsters, nor can you have characters fight each other. It definitely restricts what you can do with companions, since they would have to have character-like stat blocks to engage in combat. The initiative system is interesting. While it encourages potentially more cinematic combat where characters take actions when it makes sense to them, I think it takes an experienced or civilised table to make it run smoothly. I can imagine arguments between players about who goes first, or the quiet/indecisive player always going last.

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

NPC will act when narrative says they fit best

@Firecell777

4 ай бұрын

It seems to be the same problem candela obscura had which happens to be designed by the same person. Seems like they always forget inner party conflict.

@fred_derf

4 ай бұрын

@@SkittleBombs So this system is more like WWE than like MMA... that's not a good thing (imho).

@TheDragonWhimsy

3 ай бұрын

@@Firecell777They didn't forget it, they just don't want it.

@Firecell777

3 ай бұрын

which is a shame in itself@@TheDragonWhimsy

These distance descriptions sound a lot like the descriptions in ICRPG. It's a good system for traveling in straight lines, but gets lost when players are making turns or moving around corners or hallways.

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

If you think about it like Professor DM's ultimate dungeon terrain, the zones just represent where action is, and things like corners and hallways are also meant to be abstracted when they involve getting to the action

@rongriffis

4 ай бұрын

The Sci-Fi Horror game Mothership also uses very similar distance descriptions, and an initiative-less combat round. Seems to be the way many new games are going. Having run a few Mothership sessions, I find it is a bit difficult for some to adjust, but with more folks playing this way I think the issues will get ironed out and people will discover a groove to make it run smoothly.

@williamstriker2299

4 ай бұрын

As an avid vtt enjoyer, I don't see much point in abstracting distance since they are so easily calculated. I think this works for theatre of the mind games type games. But fails at scale. What if my character uses a sniper rifle for example, how far can I hit? "You can hit very very far." What's very very far? What about verticality? In a vtt I can calculate diagonal distance to see if I am at range against a dragon in a 3d space. "Well the dragon is far horizontally but very close vertically." So is it far or close? "We'll just say far." Again, makes sense for theatre of the mind, but people were already doing that with dnd anyway for theatre of the mind.

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

I also think they should use timers from ICRPG as the monster moves + opportunity attack when player roll fear on their actions. This coin system seems like too much going on

@calibansrevenge8266

4 ай бұрын

​@@BobWorldBuilder Bob, this is pure theatre of the mind stuff. It reduces combat, purely mechanically speaking, to the form of ancient JRPG video games. That's totally fine, but it's not the same as measuring on a tactical grid.

When it comes to alternative initiative so far MCDM seems the most interesting to me, where you can "pass the baton" to your allies or to the DM

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

That sounds interesting!

@PsyrenXY

4 ай бұрын

@BobWorldBuilder if you want to learn more I believe Treantmonk did a video on it

@jasonGamesMaster

4 ай бұрын

That sounds like popcorn initiative, which first appeared in the marvel super hero game from the 80s. I've used it in various systems to great success.

Some of Daggerheart sounds great, and some seems overly complicated. I love the idea of Blaze of Glory, which could easily be implemented in other games.

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

Yeah at the end of the day, I think this will at least offer some fun ideas for people who take the time to try it. Like most RPGs haha

@Stephen-Fox

4 ай бұрын

I've seen something similar to Blaze of Glory in a couple of other games - The ones that spring to my mind are Fabula Ultima and Escape from Dinosaur Island.

@ilvecchiocim

4 ай бұрын

Blaze of Glory pops immediately 2 problems in my head... first in oneshots everyone will be more prone to end the session by doing it and taking unnecessary risk, and that might ruin the verisimilitude of the scene... second if there is any way to revive a character, maybe with just a simple spell, then the best tactic would be to die on purpose again and again, and that too would take me out of the immersion... I know it sounds epic and all, but unfortunately some players tend to overoptimize and those are the results

@andrewdiaz3529

4 ай бұрын

​@ilvecchiocim most games that use blaze of glory don't have revives really; And most forms of this rule I've seen specify that "this is permanent death make a new character"

@killcat1971

4 ай бұрын

Having so many factors and features being random is going to be an issue, a few poor rolls could easily cripple you in short order.

I refer to 5e as a rule sparse ttrpg. Lots of room between the established bricks for homebrew, but you need to because the game is missing a lot of rules and mechanics you crave. Daggerheart is looking like an amazing rules lite system while keeping the DnD spirit with a lot of room for the GM and players to be theatrical without getting disrupted by ambiguous rules. I am so excited to run Daggerheart for my casual groups, and pathfinder 2e for my enthusiastic ttrpg groups.

D12 systems are always something that sound cool but damn, just the extra steps in determining a simple attack, having thresholds to hit and stress to track and hope to track. I've got fellow players that struggle with keeping track of the few things 5e has in it!!

@marcosdheleno

21 күн бұрын

my biggest issue with D&D is that AC kinda feels counter intuitive. with armor not diminishing the damage, but rather the chance to avoid damage. its specially weird earlier on, with mages sometimes getting a single health point. due to bad luck on the draw. meaning, ANYTHING can kill them with ease. i always felt like a mix of damage avoidance and damage mitigation works far better.

I love the idea of the comments being the "combats" ( 3:40 ) considering how much arguing can go on 😂

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

Wow idk how I didn't notice that xD

@dougmoore6612

4 ай бұрын

I came here specifically to comment on the combats section! LOL!😂

That seems like a pretty solid initiative replacement, and like it encourages players working together and roleplaying

Thanks for sharing this with us @bobworldbuilder . It seems like a fun and very different way to rp combat. I'm excited to play.

I see pros and cons with this initiative system. Taking multiple turns in a row makes one's action economy stronger, but doing that over and over will might hurt you socially and get you a slap on the wrist (or reprimanded) by the DM

@doublestarships646

4 ай бұрын

That's what the token system is for.

@christenh359

4 ай бұрын

I don’t know if it’s written in the rules, but a DM might choose to limit the number of action tokens (maybe?) so that everyone gets equal amounts of actions before the DM goes.

@AJarOfYams

4 ай бұрын

@@christenh359 That would be a good houserule if it's not RAW

@steelmongoose4956

4 ай бұрын

Yes, but each consecutive action must be preceded by, “Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya….!”

@paradox8253

4 ай бұрын

i think he was joking about ginny di taking turns over and over without he others getting turns

Bob excellent video as usual. The Editor has a +10 in Editing!

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! And usually the editor is me, but this was one of a few I've had done by a professional, and they did an amazing job!

Dude your videos are so good! Keep it up!

Action economy being effectively a finite but fluid currency "poured" back and forth between the players and the GM is a really interesting concept.

I’m a little curious to hear more of your thoughts on initiative. I haven’t played a game (turn based Videogames included) that didn’t have some sort of turn order. Just seems very dependent on all players having a full understanding, I can see it being tough for quieter new players. Thanks for the vid though!

@Tharrel

4 ай бұрын

It’s actually not that unusual, there’s a lot of rpg systems without initiative, for example most powered by the apocalypse systems (such as Masks, City of Mists, Dungeon World). It’s really not a problem in play, often most active players will go first, and it’s up to the GM to make sure everyone gets their spotlight

@Picklescape

4 ай бұрын

I'd be interested in the same. I've mostly played D&D, Pathfinder so I'm very used to a turn order. I also play in big groups where I think it could quickly become chaotic without initiative dictating the turn order.

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

I agree no order would be an issue for quiet players. But my thoughts are that pausing to roll initiative for all monsters, call for all player rolls, and organize it (without it being automated) is not fun for me when there's more than ~6 total combatants. I prefer just going around the table, but currently my group has been using a deck of cards to randomly determine the order.

@Stephen-Fox

4 ай бұрын

Typically in games with no turn order it's either handled with 'the players take turns in whatever order they like' so that everyone takes a turn before anyone takes their second turn (but which does mean you can plan for taking two turns in a row if you go last) - as from the sound of it Dagger Heart will do - or it's done in a sort of free wheeling GM handles spotlight way, in the same way as stuff outside of combat is handled. Basically games that don't have turn order usually have turn order, just some of them have the players choose what order to do things in or the GM (and narrative flow) dictates it.

@offcenterideas

4 ай бұрын

It really helps having your more vocal active players actively try to pull (but not forcing) the quieter ones into their plans. "Hey, wizard, mind softening them up before I charge in?"

Watching the critical roll's 1-shot cleared up a lot of questions I had, the GM can choose to not take a turn if there aren't enough tokens for them to do what they want and they don't want to spend any fear.

I wonder how the action economy with those tokens will lurch if half the players are down/dead - the DM won't be getting as many tokens paid in anymore so does the BBEG suddenly turns impotent? It might work really well with the more Monologuing Cartoon Villain, the sort that really wants to rub in your inevitable demise as you watch your buddies fall. But for the no nonsense type of opponents who are supposed to be all about efficiently trying to get what they want suddenly not using their powerful abilities or taking turns much less often, as too few players have had a turn to give the currency in... It is an interesting idea, and does add an interesting new element of tactical intrigue for the players. Something I wasn't expecting so much from the CR team as the stuff they put out seems to be rather more about fun and very thematic abilities, largely empowering a role-play focused game rather than a 'fair and balanced' tabletop wargaming rules. Not saying the stuff they produce is in any way bad though - I do like it, just not as suited for every table as it could be with such wildly inconsistent power.

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

That's an interesting thought about the BBEG being "weakened" (able to do less) as the party is weakened.

@foldionepapyrus3441

4 ай бұрын

Thinking on it further a way that should work to counter that problem (if it even turns out to feel like a problem in play) is if the DM's minions have many skills that cost "Player count +x" or perhaps "PC/2 +x" tokens. While loss of a player character will still shift what the DM can do as the living player count changes it won't be as incapacitating as this sounds. For many combat actions that sort of cost even makes some sense - with more targets to keep track of, target, evade etc it should be more taxing to take that action against a larger number of opponents. I am really curious as to how this rule concept will work out though - really adds another layer to the players decision making focus that isn't there in any other TTRPG I can think of. Usually it is always worth it enough to use your power moves, even if its not the absolute best setup for them imaginable and you fear you might need them more later as you do weaken remove the opponets which has no downside, just might not have been the most efficient use of your resources. But with this it really asks the question 'is it worth spending heaps of action points for the fireball equivalent knowing in the process I help fuel a more effective retaliation?'

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

I think the bad guys need to be on timers/clocks instead for their initiative , and fear is considered an opportunity to act outside of the timer

Another Excellent video! Well done :)

Dagger Heart combat sounds interesting - I would definitely like to try it.

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

If you want a frame work that does the same thing . Try ironsworn it’s the the same chance for fear to hit and the narrative initiative is the premise. Ironsworn is feature complete free as pdf and can be played solo so you don’t have to find a group

As someone who mostly GMs, that 1 player token per round stuff sounds like a lot to keep track of for the GM - even on a VTT. How many tokens are the players sitting there with?

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

My fix for this is a clock /timer, “in 1d4 rounds/turns the monster strike without Fear!” Then the monster will do their GM turn/ organised Wombo combo of doom, that timer counts down to their thematic/narrative big power. All other move monsters do is a basic action /movement, they get to act any time FEAR is rolled (which is like 50% chance per player action. if not including misses as a monster opportunity) This means once everyone has rolled their turn (order that narrative fits best) you tick down the timer.

This sounds way more fun than I expected

Obviously I haven't played this system, but from simply hearing you describe if I'm not a huge fan of the "no initiative" thing. I really like how armor works in this system though, that sounds really cool!

Having the Blaze Of Glory way of going out is such a nice story building component, mostly in a losing final boss fight.

Range indicators sound like how they are in monte cook's cypher system, partially down to the syntax. I am a huge fan for this abstracted style. It is not crunchy, but still defines clear relations between all characters, but easily translatable into theater of mind.

I still don’t think there’s anything wrong with initiative

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

It’s because they want monsters to get attack of opportunity on FEAR which makes it a lot more back and forth and the. Have a DM turn where the monsters get action points to spend. Rather than round table or fixed initiative which means monsters often get lumped into one move

@tasty_wind4294

4 ай бұрын

It’s a cycle that happens every couple of years or so; someone comes along, declares they don’t like or need a staple of RPG design that has been there since the beginning, proceeds to try and reinvent the wheel, fails, then passes on into obscurity.

@Aussie_Archmage

4 ай бұрын

I say we go back to rolling a d6 each round to determine party or monsters first, then Missiles, Movement, Magic, Melee. Guy? Guys where are you all going?

@mirrikybird

4 ай бұрын

I find initiative order works for "turn based" combat, but can be very limiting for "cinematic" combat. Sometimes you want to have the opponent strike back directly after a player attacks them (especially when it comes to rivals) like you see in movies, shows, comics, and anime

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

@@Aussie_Archmage this system dagger heart now allows you to do both When narrative context suggests one or the other is appropriate

I love Bob World Builder content. The information an Daggerheart was amazing. More like this, please! 10/10.

Movement really reminds me of Fantasy Flights Star Wars system. They have the same "circles" of Very Far, Far, Close, Melee and use a Strain and Wound system which works quite well. I'm looking forward to this system.

@jasonGamesMaster

4 ай бұрын

It (the range system) is actually pretty common these days. Almost all of Free League's games use some form of it, as does Black Hack. I think it goes back to FATE, but I have little experience with that

@themaplebeard

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, I don't have much experience with other systems besides 3rd 3.5, 4th, 5e, and the fantasy flight system. So that's where I draw my experience from lol. I'd like to branch out more, but my play group has a hard time wanting to switch to anything from D&D.

@jasonGamesMaster

4 ай бұрын

@@themaplebeard nothing wrong with that, sorry if I came off differently. All I was trying to say was that I've enjoyed it in other places. Most of the systems that use it are lighter (Black Hack is a super light D&D style game. Give it a shot :D ) so it'll work with what daggerheart IS but I have a lot of doubts that it will appeal to many D&D exclusive folks because there are so many rules light bits and bobs in there. I'd love to be wrong though

@themaplebeard

4 ай бұрын

@@jasonGamesMaster, It's fine. I never took it that way. I just don't have a lot of experience with other systems besides D&D and Fantasy Flight. I've done some other D20 systems, but they all played the same as D&D with feats, movement, and combat :).

Can't wait to try those rules out whenever they become available

I can't wait to get my game to market 😊 can't wait to playtest daggerheart too

That ten-second timer caused me unnecessary stress. Maybe I should talk to someone.

Thanks for the video.

Thank you! 😃

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

My pleasure!

i love that every time you roll with fear everyone would look over to the GM awaiting their fate

Oh, somehow I didn’t know Spenser Stark was the lead designer on this. That kills any enthusiasm I had for it. Candela Obscura just felt like a slapdash and hollow version of blades in the dark. I’ll still follow along with this and I hope it’s great, but I’m extremely dubious now.

I get what they're trying to do, but a lot of the initiative and action economy seems to be dependent on players being nice enough to give otehes a turn. Of course you're not gonna havea problem with Ginny Di and Pointy Hat, but "that guy" is already trying to dominate combats and the only thing stopping them is that they literally have to wait for their turn to play, and that's baked in. Also, there seems to be a lot of resources to keep track of (Hope, Fear, stress, HP, armor points, spells and abilities etc.). Did you find this hard to track? I know 5e isn't really that much easier either, but will this actually be easier for a player new to TTRPGs?

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

Yeah I suspect the final product will need to clearly tell GMs that they are fully encouraged to not play with "that guy". Narrative games often have elements that can be min/maxed beyond their design intentions. But you make a great point that this isn't exactly a light system either. I didn't find the tracking hard since there were boxes for each of these right on the sheet (fear wasn't a thing to track either) though I wasn't playing a spell caster to it was easier for my character. It does seem like it could be a lot for people new to TTRPGs, but I think Critical Role's target audience for this game has some experience.

Thank you for the heads up, even though it’s a play-test, super stoked!

I like this initiative approach. I recently started playing Savage World which uses a deck of cards to determine order. Dealt each round. So, can be lots of shake ups. But this, feels more like everything is happening all at once, which would be, and players can better reach to situation, but not in any sort of minor, prescribed way.

I like the sound of the system and I'm keen to know more. I do wonder about the slightly odd action economy. We know in D&D that a party of adventurers can overpower a single powerful creature by virtue of getting so many turns... but that is because it is many vs one! In Daggerheart, it seems like there would be no incentive to have more players in a fight than fewer - or even - if one player has a particularly powerful attack that works well in a certain encounter that they could be the only character to take actions which seems off to me - unless each character is required to take an action? In that case we'd again be incentivizing weaker characters/less suited to an encounter characters to remove themselves from combat completely. Definitely keen to know more though.

@fred_derf

4 ай бұрын

+stephenharric8041, writes _"We know in D&D that a party of adventurers can overpower a single powerful creature by virtue of getting so many turns... but that is because it is many vs one!"_ It's also reality. Why do you think pack hunters can take down bigger prey than solo hunters? Why do you think prey animals tend to bunch up and predators try to separate a single individual from the herd?

@dcoffinh

3 ай бұрын

The answer to the question of why wouldn’t one character in a prime situation take every action is also unclear to me too

Sounds pretty cool. I'd definitely love to see a video on Nimble 5e as well.

I play Burning Wheel, and it also doesn't use an initiative system. Usually this works fine, but there are times it doesn't really feel like it functions. My group is usually really good about making sure everyone gets to act at least once before taking another action, but there have been times where one character is taking an "out of combat action" while combat is going on (the best example was my PC trying to pick a lock of a cage as orcs ran into the room to murder us), and stuff doesn't always run well. There was some difficulty determining how many actions it would take me to pick the lock while this combat was going on (I had to, I was inside the cage), and when I would roll my check(s) to do so. Because of this, I really prefer, even if there is no initiative rolled, that the GM, players, or both decide an order to take their actions in, and how many actions a non-combat activity will take, at the start of the combat.

It really, reeeeally, looks like a lot of fun!

Give us the playtest we registered fooor!

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

Yeah I'm eagerly waiting for actual playtest material haha

@paradox8253

4 ай бұрын

i was one of the few who got selected to playtest, myself and my group had our first session last night, but other than than that, I can't say anymore

I recently joined a one shot as a person with social anxiety and there was no initiative. I had a single turn in a combat that lasted about 5 round. XD As it was very chaotic and 3 out of 5 players where hogging the turn economy.

I actually really like that system for player deaths, might swipe that

I love a lot of this. Great opportunity to role play the little moments in combat and encapsulates a set of homebrew rules I’ve working on but in a more deliberate fashion. The 2d12 system is very intriguing and I’m excited to think more on it. Hopefully I’ll be able to pick up a copy of this for my players and I.

@fred_derf

4 ай бұрын

+ZandyrBier004, writes _"The 2d12 system is very intriguing and I’m excited to think more on it."_ To me it sounds more like trying to find a use for d12s beyond rolling a Barbarian's hit points.

Dagger heart hits differently... Get it? Bob's so punny. (Knee slap) XD

You really have to have the right group of people to have no initiative and just go whenever. Some players tend to hog the spotlight and some players (myself included )are quiet and shy, and have trouble speaking up “out of turn “. Personally I prefer always on initiative like in ICRPG.

It's like PBTA with a twist, fun :)

This looks pretty good!

This looks really fun. One way I do initiative is by range. So first to go are those in close range, players then monsters. Next are those in near, players then monster, and then far range. To me it make sense that those closest to the action go first. Anyway great video, I would love to hear more about Daggerheart when you get a chance.

@littlemonztergaming8665

4 ай бұрын

Like Golf!

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

That would be a great way to use the zones but also have an established order to help quiet players! Love it!

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

Yeah that’s pretty much how this will boil down to, is marching order = narrative framing for who acts first in most cases which sound fine to me

im interested, very well presented : )

YES YES YES!!! More Daggerheart news!

I would just have everyone go in a clockwise order and start on a new person (clockwise order) every time you would roll for initiative.

@louisst-amand9207

4 ай бұрын

what if someone needs a set up by someone else?

@d.b.s.6381

4 ай бұрын

@@louisst-amand9207 make an exception

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

Initiative is whatever you want . If you want clockwise you can and that’s eligible RAW. But you can have moments where it’s broken and someone jumps in and that is also RAW

the combat token goes back to the original pc character or the attacked character when the dm attacks?

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

Yes

I am an old dog, so any change is hard, but i am excited to try this system out

@SkittleBombs

3 ай бұрын

Thank you🎉 you sound like a great player or gm to have at any table

Spenser really loves the mechanic of "mixed success." You get what you want, but at what cost? Candela Obscura also has it, with only crits (a 6 on a d6) being a total success.

Omg i love pretty much all of these systems I cant wait to play

Is there a link to some kind of playtest material for Dagger heart, a link to a website, am I not seeing it?

I love pointyhat!! Do you have any fun stories with him?

Awesome sum up. Sold. 😮 oh. Theres more after the ad. Lol. 😮

Sounds like a good mix of d20 style games and Powered by the Apocalypse games.

That action economy system sounds really cool

I don't know how to feel about the whole token mechanic because how game boardy it seems to feel but I completely understand it. I like how the turn order works but how the fear roll has me worried as a DM. Honestly I seriously just have to play and run it to see how it plays. For me the Genesys system is my favorite game to run because of how fast and entertaining it is roleplay wise. I do like how mathy the combat is which is something I miss from older games but casuals are going to HATE it. All my players really don't like to pass the level of thinking more than they have to to play anything sadly lololol.

@this_epic_name

4 ай бұрын

Figuring out what the positive and negative "extra" consequences are for every roll does sound like a burdensome chore -- not only in combat, but in every other situation where 2d12 are rolled. "Ok, so you succeed, and also....um....uh...."

@doublestarships646

4 ай бұрын

@@this_epic_name It's easy in Genesys because I am actually really good in improv and the game is really good at giving you examples and ideas to simplify the concept of rolls that effect the RP. It's not hard as it seems. This "fear" roll though is just a less romantic version of what Genesys has and sounds kind of clunky.

The token thing is nice. No need to build an entire game around it tough. Ill use it in my next 5E session.

Sounds like the game has some really cool concepts baked in :-)

@SkittleBombs

4 ай бұрын

If you want the game that has all the same mechanics, read ironsworn . It’s a free pdf. Basically the same except dagger heart introduces target numbers and roll for damage. But all the interesting “new” stuff you are hearing is from the ironsworn style of play.

I think one of the best ways to change up initiative without reinvinting the wheel is just to re-roll for eveyone at the top of the round. Of course that makes more work for the DM not to bad online , but a nightmare irl. It also messes with those abilities labled "at the end of your next turn" or "at the beginning of your next turn" but if everyones okay with that gamble i see no problem. You also HAVE to be with a group that is paying attention...somtimes thats a struggle. Ive never tried this tweek before, but i think its the most straightfoward bang for the buck approach i have ever seen put out there. I think its from an older edition.

What is that video clip of at 1:08?

1.2k likes in 2h... By the end of the day you'll reach 5k. Congrats, always like your style, continue like that :)

Thats cool it really helps with the action commodity issues d&d has

I like the way this sounds. I may be looking at a new game to at least try out. Thank you sir.

My favorite initiative system is the old school approach. You roll a 1d6 and that determines if there is a full surprise, partial suprise, or no surprise. There are 10 ticks in combat and thats where your actions take place.

Several very rules lite systems use the abstracted ranges. I find it to be very nice for theater of the mind. (Shadowrun Anarchy and Mechwarrior Destiny are both good examples!)

I'm extremely eager to get my hands on this system should an SRD drop. Any word on the lisence?

I get the zones for actions but I’m curious how movement works

sounds pretty cool!!

I think the initiative thing could work as long as your group doesn't have people with anxiety

Sounds interesting. Maybe not my cup of tea, but if others enjoy it awesome!

I think rolling for initiative is a good thing in general. It may slow down the game a bit, but so does every roll, more or less. In my RPG group we have some rather timid and hesitant players who would rarely act or speak in character unless they're being nudged a bit. Those kind of players would always go last if the initiative roll would be abolished and the more extrovert players would always go first. That would probably lead to the timid players vanishing to the backround even more and it might de-motivate them and discourage them in the end. On top of that, the race and class you're playing and the type/size of the weapon you're using (or the type of spell you're casting etc) should always be relevant for deciding the order of initiative.

How many comat/action token does a character have?

"Let me know what you think down in the combats" I can't tell if that was a slip of the tongue, or if Bob was purposely comparing the comments section to a battlefield. :P

What system are you currently using instead of initiative right now? I would love to replace it.

The initiative sounds really cool because I can imagine there being tense standoffs between the players and a boss. Whereas in most systems if you don't attack your wasting your turn and you can't do very much if not anything outside your turn. I would however like the rules to establish GM intervention when managing the turns. Like if a person isn't speaking up or if a player is being greedy then the GM should be able to intervene and give some guidelines.

@SkittleBombs

3 ай бұрын

The dm can still attack the quiet players to get them involved, like if there are environmental hazards you have to dodge, they will get a chance to narrate how they face the danger

Looking forward to this.

I've been anticipating the rules. It founded in love for the hobby so I expect some passion rules and changes.

I'm looking forward to playing this. I've played till the last gasp and it was a lot of fun. I know that Candela Obscura has gotten a lot of flack, but it also looks like it owuld be a good roleplay heavy system. It looks like this has been created to remove as many barriers to gameplay as possible, especially for new players, and that can only be a good thing.

@BobWorldBuilder

4 ай бұрын

Same! As for CO, my group only played it once so far but we had a good time

The initiative thing seems interesting. My only concern is how specifically dependent it will be from table to table. I'm sure some tables will be fine with it. But I can see the majority of tables, (especially new or less experienced ones) struggling with the loosely goosey chaos of no initiative. I can definitely see it bringing up some issues for a table like CR's main cast, specifically Laura and Liam, who will want 40 actions per combat. With more passive cast members like Ashley or Travis being stuck to a few moves. I mean, initiative was created and implemented for a good reason. So the game doesn't devolve into schoolyard imaginary arguments about who shot who 1st. And folks who're just more naturally passive, feel like they're equally involved, without it having to fall to other players to make sure they are. It's definitely not the first ttrpg to have no initiative, so I'm sure it'll find its audience. People will either use their system as is, or just implement initiative. Much like people do with standard D&D

I kinda want to implement that "initiative" style into my group but we're so bad at keeping track of who has gone each turn already xD