Thanks for the great review. Had always wanted to try one of these low cost amps but don't have confidence on the sound quality so this review provides a good starting point.

Ok... ordered, will report my experience when arrives. Many thanks for all those great reviews.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

No problem, please share back! :)

I was just looking at this yesterday, stumbling across this video in my feed is a sign to buy one. ;-)

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

There are no signs, though there surely are tracking cookies :D

@michaelwright1602

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx Ha Ha! True.

Okay I just ordered one of these due to your review and now the children's orphanage won't get my donation for the next year. I hope you're happy.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

That's not fair, you should get another one for the children!

@leetaylor13

Ай бұрын

Given that power consumption it will cost it's purchase price in annual electricity consumption with only modest usage (at least in the UK). The orphanage can kiss your donations goodbye but if the winter is harsh, you can invite them round to warm themselves beside your new amp. Honestly, it looks great. Enjoy.

I bought this dual mono amplifier a few months ago. It truly is an amazing detailled and relaxed sounding amp. Deep, dry and powerfull but very precise bass sound. Midrange is full and very nicely produced. High range is very very nice. It drives my Heco Mythos 500 high end speakers through a passive pre-amplifier very very easily.

I'm a transaudio FM255 preamp and T7 power amp owner. Super happy with the sound. I'm confident to buy from transaudio. Thanks for educating us about the parts.

@sav1014.

Ай бұрын

Can you do a test on the musical paradise pre amp. It seems to be an end game pre.

@ilanspiro1645

Ай бұрын

It's a great preamp, especially when considering all it's upgradable options

@beslemeto

Ай бұрын

FM255 clone is complete trash!My old NAD wipes the floor with it!

I'm ordering this because of you! xD Hope it's good! 😅 Thanks bro great video!!

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

It is great, don't worry. I have the feeling that the prices will go up ;)

I just discovered your channel. I hope that you keep covering and explaining the design of different Chinese replica amps, preamps, dacs, etc etc. by the way , is there any chance you could or would cover replica chinese speakers? such as for example the Oatlon WZ-801F speakers which are an almost exact copy of the B&W 804 D3

@k4syx

12 күн бұрын

Speakers are tempting and I was thinking about them, but the shipping costs are crazy! Also, I think speakers are more delicate and I'm kinda afraid they'd get here broken. But I've read some very good opinions on both fake and some local brands speakers.

Great review thanks for sharing, I would be curious to know what pre amplifier you are using?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

None - in my experience pre causes loss of some fine detail from DAC. Over the years I've tried different preamps but it always ended the same way and I was going back to DAC volume control.

Thanks for introducing this amplifier to me. I bought one with the pass P17 clone. I love it. Do you know if it auto changes it's output when connected to 4ohm speakers from 8ohm . Or do we need to change a setting inside? I couldn't find any references in any videos online!

@k4syx

2 күн бұрын

I'm happy that you're happy :) No you don't need to change anything - it's solid state and just accepts bigger load and works with it :)

I have it for a couple of month now. A german youtuber made a video and he was immensely impressed by its performance. Its an insane value for money.

@k4syx

10 күн бұрын

Exactly, that would probably be Frank you're talking about.

@AnalogDude_

6 күн бұрын

i saw that video too and i talked with Dartzeel.

@Cenkolino

6 күн бұрын

@@AnalogDude_ What did they say?

@AnalogDude_

6 күн бұрын

@@Cenkolino Well, i wanted to know how many how many capacitance was used since they are so enormous, because i was building a class AB amp. It took the guy 16 years to invent this circuit and now people are cloning it. The real thing has 24 carat gold bars over the capacitors. even the glass plate was engineered so it doesn't harm the electronics inside (vibrate, etc).

This is cool. Thanks for taking the leap! Do you think your channel budget could handle more exploratory buys? I was searching for used prices on Sugden A21 and noticed in my search that there were Chinese clones of them for same expiration of patent reasons. The Pearl Acoustics guy loves Sugden so got me interested. Wow, if the clone was like this one I might try. Perhaps you could first and vet for all of us? 😅

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Honestly there's little chance for that now as I'm earning exactly 0 USD here :) I'm reviewing the stuff I've bought while chasing my rabbits at the moment. But, maybe, in future? We'll see.

the bars over the capacitors are solid 24 carat gold, the glass is special.

I considered this amp before eventually landing a Plinius integrated. Any plans to review the Silver Cloud power cable?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Well, more than plans actually as the review is ready, uploaded and scheduled for release!

@calaf_725

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx Looking forward

QUESTION : Got mine from the same store. I love it. My slow start is with a green color 'round ' little transformer. I wonder why a have that version. Not the little black square one like yours.

@k4syx

14 күн бұрын

Interesting, probably different batch of slow start circuits. I envy you a little because round means toroidal and that would be quieter and better than block one that I have ;)

Can you provide a link to this amplifier? I prefer DIY and designing my own gear but given this is no longer protected by certain IP laws I would feel OK considering this amplifier. I built a clone Threshold amplifier with a BOM well North of this complete amplifier. Although I don’t know the overall quality of the parts in this amplifier it is still a good value considering the transformer, enclosure and PCB’s. Thank you.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Ahhh of course, that's not a fake so linking is fine, I've added the link to the description. And yes that's one thing I forgot to mention: the case, toroidal transformer and caps alone are already worth more than price for complete build here in Europe! That's why I've asked them how's that even possible

Love the video, what preamp are you gonna be using with this power amp? I'm considering moving at this direction as well and ditching my integrated amp in a favour of power amp + preamp.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Thank you! None at all actually: with electrostats I can hear the detail loss coming from placing pre between DAC and power amp. I've tried using pre a couple of times over the years, but I've always came back to simple DAC and power amp set.

@demart28

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx that's interesting, but actually as per a rule of the thumb they say in the audiophile world less elements in the chain the better. How do you choose which seller to pick up from Ali? E.G the amp that you've featured is available in several shops with some minor differences in price.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@demart28 combination of the cheapest one with the biggest amount of positive feedback. A lot of guys from Germany had already bought this amp after Franks video

@demart28

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx I'm in between the one above and the clone of FM Acoustics FM300A do you have any thoughts on the latter, Thanks?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Sorry, no :( I'd love to someday, if there will be funds, explore more of these clone amps - but we'll see about that in future. Right now I need to slow down, my wallet's gonna have a heart attack soon;)

I've been looking at these, there's several makers, but the one with the Pro version has my attention. I believe you have the pro version, it looks like a work of art! I wonder if it's possible to get it with balanced XLR inputs instead of RCA?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Yes it's the Pro version, most of the sellers have it in offer but you have to choose it as an option (default is D5 with lower price). I think the producer is one company and there are just many shops selling these. There are versions with XLRs but they are 3 times more expensive and they are looking like real DartZeel

@CalCobra

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx I couldn't find a D5 that offered XLR, so I ordered the D5 Pro from FunKenya HiFi Store who seems to be a good seller. I also ordered their "Accuphase C245 Preamplifier Fully Balanced Audiophile HIFI Preamplifier Remote Control High end Home Sound Amplifier 1:1 Clone" which appears to be actually manufactured by BRZHiFi who are pretty well known for producing good quality HiFi gear. Now the waiting game begins :)

@tatherton124

2 күн бұрын

Hi I have purchased the D9 addition it comes with both XLR and RCA

@k4syx

2 күн бұрын

@@tatherton124 yes, I'm wondering how it compares to D5PRO. Shop that I got my D5PRO was recommending it over D9 for pure sound quality.

@k4syx Very useful review! Have you encountered the 1:1 clone somewhere and where?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

I've read some threads about it in a few different places. In general owners absolutely love it, including a guy who had his in repairs for like ten months (a line of unfortunate events) but would still repeat the process because of sound quality of the clone. Maybe in time I will bite the bullet and get one, if my channel will create some funds :)

@jean-pierrescherer8250

26 күн бұрын

I have the clone with pot and one without pot. Both sound superb, using it with a cloneFM225…. Sound is superb, can post pics if you want

@k4syx

26 күн бұрын

@@jean-pierrescherer8250 yes please! Can you take photos of pot version: how's the pot connected? Just after inputs?

Hello and thank you. It’s a beautiful piece of workmanship. I can only criticize that the RCA input wires are too close to the transformer wires. Maybe you could replace them with shielded cable.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Yes I was thinking about replacing them with something better in future anyway, something like solid silver in teflon. Could be shielded also. But at the moment I don't feel the urgent need if you know what I mean. It sounds so great!

@sonhouse9636

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx Sorry, I confused the input cables with the LED wires....🤭

kupiłem tego klona z czystej ciekawości... nie opowiadasz głupot i to jest najważniejsze!! fajny kanał i dobrze gadasz . Jeszcze jedno tak Ci podpowiem bo też mam gustarda r26 i jeszcze kilka innych fajnych gratów, posłuchaj sobie z twoimi elektrostatami okto dac8, nie jest tani ale robi cuda zwłaszcza w górze pasma. U mnie z klonem dartzell pozamiatał a gram na spendorach sp2/3 a one nie wybaczają niczego. Pozdrawiam👍

@k4syx

26 күн бұрын

Thanks! I've sold R26 and stayed with X26PRO. R26 was cool but electrostats exposed that's loosing some fine detail when compared to X26PRO. I guess I'm delta sigma guy :) A DartZeel - ten klon - zamiata ceną i jakością. Super że jesteś zadowolony!

I have been enjoying the sound from a pair of Fosi ZA3s with Sparkos op amps with a pair of Magnepan LRS and the Sound Artist LS5/9 clone.There is way more detail and resolution over the Schiit Vidar 2. I actually prefer the sound of the Vidar but the ZA3s are close plus with the added detail and clarity. Sounds like this might be a best of both worlds kind of thing.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Logans are also hard to drive. I have ZA3 lined up for review, I don't see it as being contender for D5 Pro, but I am very curious about it. No serious listening session yet (no time yet) but I love engineering on this small amp - I'll cover that in my review!

@taho88

Ай бұрын

@@k4syxLooking forward to the review. I couldn't stand it though and went ahead and ordered one.🤣 I do see now there is another version available with XLR and a slightly larger case for better heat dissipation but it would wind up costing almost $400 more as that seller charges way more for shipping than FunKenya. Was able to score a $50 coupon. $581 shipped for this one. Cant wait!

Another good review.. thanks for your continue gem discovery

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Thank you!

Really great review with a comprehensive walk through of the internals. Wonderful to know that some of these great looking amps on Ali express are actually legit builds! Just wish they made a balanced version of this one as I’d be willing to pay for that added cost relative to this amps price. Would it be safe and/or still sound good and in phase to use xlr/rca adapters with this?🙏🏼

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Yes that's what I was wondering too - if the build is ok. I wasn't really expecting to see it that good! There is a version with XLR and pre built in, but the shop told me that this one has best SQ due to simplest circuit. Maybe I will also look at some point at other offers for 1:1 clone (3x more expensive) with XLRs as this one is already a good indication that others may be even better

@ccdccd8615

29 күн бұрын

@@k4syxI saw a 1:1 clone and it was only 50% more expensive. It was around $750.

@k4syx

29 күн бұрын

@@ccdccd8615 that's cheap! Any chance for link?

Great review! Is there any link to where you bought it from?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Thank you! Link added to the description - it's not a fake so linking to good store is fine

Wow. I'm putting this on my shopping list. This is class A amp, right? And the difference between standard and pro version is the slow start feature that protects speakers? It's only a pitty they don't have balanced XLR inputs.

@k4syx

25 күн бұрын

It's class AB, Pro has slow start, more capacitance and additional pairs of transistors for more power.

I'm iching to order this amp today, not sure I should thank you for this expense😊😊 Which version have you got, D5 or D5 Pro? Thanks for the great content!

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

I felt that itching for two years, it was time to scratch that place ;) I went for D5 Pro. Price difference is neglible and it really is better build.

Hi, love your site. I always wondered the quality of clone audio. I went to Allexpress to check out ordering the D5 Pro based on your review. I'm stoked! My question is, they listed several D5's with different prices and shipping costs. How does one choose? I'm concerned to go with cheapest as maybe they have lower QC. Any advice please. Live in USA

@k4syx

8 күн бұрын

Hi! Thank you! I've added the link to the shop I got mine from in the description of the video - secure shipping with dhl or ups. There are two versions, regular D5 and a better D5 Pro that I've reviewed here.

@randynielsen9894

8 күн бұрын

@@k4syx I only see a few w/115 voltage. Is 110v ok for us use? Thanks so much. You do a fantastic job. I'll be broke in no time!

@k4syx

8 күн бұрын

@@randynielsen9894 Thanks and same here - my wallet is constantly in ICU :) You'll be fine with 110V, these (as all equipment) do have some +/- voltage margins.

Ordered one, everything is made in China anyway. Gotten a few things off Ali, no issues. Going to use my 6000a as preamp, thanks

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

I think in time you may outgrow your Audiolab, D5Pro will be a good base for new system :)

would be interesting to compare it with hegel or audiolab

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Until recently in one of my systems I had Audiolab M-PWR power amplifier. It wasn't TOTL, but there was nothing to compare anyway. This is different league, it's better than my balanced driven twin Cambridge Audio Azur 851W in mono mode.

Wonderful review. How come this looks so different from the actual Dartzerl model? Did you mention if this is a class A or AB amp? More reviews like this please!

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

This is AB, forgot to mention that. It's different because they've retraced PCB to diagram, than added DC servo and removed crowbar and XLR/BNC inputs. And then designed board with new size and placement of elements. So this clone is not 1:1 copy as it f.e. adds additional transistor pairs for greater output power. Some reviews of original DartZeel mention that it's weak point may be bass control. Not with this clone :)

@foblivio

Ай бұрын

Thank you. It certainly draws a lot of power while idling! As much as a class A! When you mentioned it was approximately $500, I assume it was shipped to you in the US? I live in Canada; in US dollars, the amp with shipping will be quite a bit more than that 😢

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@foblivio @foblivio I'm EU based but a few times a year Ali has sales with some coupons. Small ones like 1 to 5 USD are disappearing momentarily, but big ones like 100usd (valid from some minimum amount) are easy to get. Most people buy socks, pens and other strange, cheap stuff there so I always try to get something nice. Anyway, coupons got me shipping covered for free basically.

I'm sticking to new ClassD, I like power efficiency. But still interesting

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Yes I'm closely following D class evolution too.

Hi I found your video very interesting and I am tempted to buy this clone. One thing is stopping me - the input signal cables! It looks like the connector on this equipment case is coaxial. What input cables did you use? And where can I get them? What is in the box when it is delivered? Is a power cable also supplied? I cannot find a manual for this amplifier in the Internet. Many thanks in advance! All the best, Rob in Switzerland

@k4syx

28 күн бұрын

Hi Rob! It's using standard RCA connector so any RCA signal cable will do. Power is via standard IEC connector like in 99prc of audio equipment, so you'll be fine. There are no cables in the box however, you need to buy somey locally if you don't have anything unused around the house.

@RobWhittlestone

28 күн бұрын

@@k4syx That's great! I have a very revealing system: Primare CD32, Topping D90 DAC, exposure XI+XII preamp, Exposure stereo VIII power amp, KEF Reference Three-Two with Townshend supertweeters. All anaolgue sgnal cables are Audioquest Earth, Speaker cables are Kimber Crystal 24 (like 12TC) Kimber power cables, dedicated power outlet. The exposure power amp is underpowered for the KEF speakers and I think I need more power and control. Otherwise I am very happy with the sound. Putting my speaker cables on risers made a surprising difference: faster attack and freer in the extreme high frequencies. I was considering two Fosi V3 monoblocks in Class D with two 10A power supplies but I think the character of the D5Pro will better suit my system. The exposure rolls off slowly around 100kHz so I think it will be a good match. All the best, Rob in Switzerland PS. congratulations on your great English - I found your sound review very nuanced!

@k4syx

28 күн бұрын

@@RobWhittlestone Thank you again! I think you'll be happy with D5PRO, especially in a such great system!

@RobWhittlestone

27 күн бұрын

@@k4syx Thank you so much! I have just realized that my speakers are rated at 4 Ohms and suited for amplifiers up to 300 W per channel so this seems a perfect match. I am hoping for more power and control in the bass which my Exposure VIII is a bit lacking with these speakers. I am looking forward to the palpable mid and also the extended highs which the KEF Reference Three-Twos with the Townshend supertweeters can easily reproduce. I'm glad I discovered your great channel! 🙂

@RobWhittlestone

5 күн бұрын

​​​@@k4syxHi! I bought it and it arrived 2 weeks ago! I AM VERY HAPPY WITH IT! It is an IMPROVEMENT on my 38 year old Exposure VIII stereo power amplifier which I think produced about 70W into 4 Ohms. I was not happy with the bass from my KEF Reference Two Three speakers because I think they are quite demanding (the back panel label says use amplifiers up to 300W into 4 Ohms) and the Exposure was a little weak. Now I can play tracks with very deep bass and can hear notes in my room certainly to 30 Hz more or less flat. The transparency is good and the -3dB rolloff at 300kHz is higher than the Exposure which is felt in transients and better imaging as well as much better depth information which was missing in my old Exposure. Remember my Kimber Crystal 24 speaker cable with WBT connectors is on 17cm cable risers which liberated the extreme top end and improved the sounds stage and transients. Thank you very much for your excellent video and your impressions which convinced me (with Frank's Werkstatt) to commit my pension money to a new amplifier! All the best and many happy hours of listening, greetings to Poland from Rob in Switzerland

Hi, Interested in buying one of these but wondered if I can leave it on all the time (yes I know this is wasteful but I’ve had other class a/b amps that are designed to stay on).If not does it have a significant warm up time? Thanks in advance.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Hi! It warms up quickly, like in 10 minutes max. During initial burn in mine stayed on for 3 weeks in a row, so I guess you'll be fine (except for horrendous electricity bill and heat in the house)

@rettib2001

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx Great. Thanks for replying so quickly.

Each of my class H amps. have 580 watts per channel @ 8 ohms. 780-watts @ 4-ohms.. MAX 1.7k per channel @4-ohms.. Each of my amps. cost $400.. well worth the money very clean best bang for your buck.. The RPA-16 from Rockville...You got a great deal for $500! Nice.. I've picked up background noise in the studio recording with my RPA-16 amps. amazing detail in what you'll hear in the original recording..

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

How's the top end and detail with these? What are you driving with them?

I've noticed these clone amps for years on Aliexpress but never got down to trying one out. I guess it's worth a shot, just to see how well it does against what I have.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Same story. I was like that for two years and then Frank's video tipped the scales ;)

I think you should make a video about how to burn in Amplifier! I have read your reply on how to connect stuffs but since I am a noob, I need more details on how to set everyhing up and whats the best way to do that visualy. If you can make a video for that, I think you will be the first one on KZread who does this!

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

And that's actually a great idea, thank you! I am burning in one amp at then moment so making video on that will be fast and easy, and if it helps - win win situation:)

@dtoe07toer29

Ай бұрын

What are the impedance range that this amp can handle do you know? I can’t seem to find the info lol. Thanks!

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@dtoe07toer29 it can handle my electrostats fine and these go as low as 1.2Ohms in the treble region. A feat not many amps can do!

@dtoe07toer29

29 күн бұрын

it has been 4 days and I tried to burn in for about 70+ hrs, i notice that the sound is a bit harsh and more treble/brighter than normal... do you experience it when you first got it? how did the sound change from the day you got it til after the burn in proccess is done for you? I just want to know what to expect hehe the sound wuality is clean and clear tho, dead quiet too when music is not playing!

@k4syx

29 күн бұрын

@@dtoe07toer29 yes it was like that, just leave it playing for some more time (in my case there was almost no changes after 250h so that would be your finish line). Little treble spike during burning in (at the beginning usually) is quite common.

Hi, I did investigate quite a lot and found many different versions of it: D5, D5pro, D9 and a "Version 4" with a integrated preamp and one with a volume knob... Do you have any idea on what version the "Version 4" is based on? Not sure if the preamp is done well and introduces noise + there is no spec on the frequency range. It says -20kHz, but as Frank tested it goes up to more than 300kHz. So, I am pretty confused. Currently, I am tending to get the D9 with XLR inputs + will add a preamp in case I need it. It is foreseen to serve the front speakers of home theatre. Unfortunatelly, the speakers (4Ohm) go down to 2Ohm and the AVR can't handle it. Nobody seem to share information on how good the NHB108 can handle 2Ohm. I hope that it can do it... Appreciate any comment... thanks

@k4syx

4 күн бұрын

Hi! Before I bought my D5PRO I asked the seller for the advice on the sound quality, I was also wondering which clone will be the best. The recommendation was to get D5 but to make sure I will choose D5 Pro variant. I specifically asked about XLR version but Kevin from Funkenya pointed me towards D5 Pro, though XLR version is more expensive and would mean more margin for him. As for the impedance, as I wrote in one of another comments here, my Ascents drop to as low as 1.2 Ohm and the amp passes this test with flying colors retaining all openess and transparency in the treble. So - don't worry :) BTW quality AVRs handle 2Ohms with no problems - like my CA 751Rv2.

@Littlesloths

4 күн бұрын

@@k4syx thank you very much for the answer! BTW I was thinking my Arcam 850 IS a quality amp, but I am proved wrong when operating my Sonics... ;-)

nice review that is not bias on brandname! I just placed an order base on this! I am new to this and wonder what do I do to burn in the amp if you can show me the processs? thanks in advance!

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Thank you! Just leave it playing some music for 200-300h. I know, that's like 3 weeks. Turn the speakers so they will face reach other (close, it's ok if they touch each other) and connect one out of phase (red to black black to red) and second one in phase (red to red black to black). This way they'll play quieter with the same volume level. Or just leave them connected normally and playing with normal volume of your house is large enough :) You don't have to listen to them during that time. It's even better if you don't. Come back every 2-3 day to listen to some chosen song to you know and love and you'll hear the changes the burn in makes. They are small, but noticeable.

@dtoe07toer29

Ай бұрын

thank you! I hace newborn so I dont think I can leave it on for that long... is it the same if I just keep playing from time to time and will it be burnt in evebtually when the total hours add up? and you think this will last a long time? it's not made by big company so I would think quality control is not as good...

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@dtoe07toer29 @dtoe07toer29 you'll be perfectly fine and safe, burning in just by listening will work as well but will take ages. Suppose you'd listen to it for 2h every day, that gives 60 hours per month, that gives 300h after 5 months. If you'd do that every other day than you have 10 months. You'll be fine but it will take ages :)

@dtoe07toer29

Ай бұрын

uhm... 5 months not too bad haha but damn I just realize the amp does not have a volume! so doesn't my DAC... you think any decently cheap volume module like the Schiit would not kill the quality?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@dtoe07toer29 some kind of passive preamp or maybe your source has volume control? Like your streamer maybe or PC (which is source iny case)?

Would this pair well with a tube preamplifier like the Audible Illusions M3? What is the input impedance of this amp? Thank you

@k4syx

21 күн бұрын

Unfortunately I don't know input impedance value. As for preamp, depends on your sound signature preference. Hard to tell. I'm usually dropping pre because I can hear with my electrostats slight detail loss vs going straight from the dac. But YMMV. There are many people asking for pre reviews so I may have one in future

I was wondering about fuses. Do you use "special" fuses? Any thoughts?

@k4syx

8 күн бұрын

There was a time about 5 years ago when I had an opportunity to buy some exotic fuses very cheaply (one of local audio shops went bankrupt and they were selling everything with like 90prc discount). I've found two things: 1. It works, but only in DAC and _only_ when listened through my custom Stax setup (it's even more transparent and resolving than my Martin Logan) - the effect is _miniscule_ though repeatable - and 2. Custom fuses do not always work as specced - may burn a little earlier (costly but safe) or a bit later (COSTLY and COSTLY and dangerous). So all in all - not worth the effort IMHO. Though if you have a company you trust, you have some money to burn because why not, and you don't have any other way to improve your system in a more significant way - then sure, why not. The only place I have "exotic" fuses nowadays are my two Gustard DACs and the fuses are made by Gustard too.

Did some research. There is a Model One version of this amp which was around $18,000 (USD) and a Model Two which was around $65,000 (USD). The layout of this clone is more like the Model One which is still a great value. Second, it appears this is a Class AB amp with the first 20 watts biased for Class A which explains commentary I found on it running hot.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

It's not that hot actually. It was like 51C on radiator fins when running 24/7 which is okayish, definitely not something that will give you burns. But it's a big, solid case and it WAS 150W when idle :)

@ccdccd8615

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx My comment was based on one of the few customer reviews posted on this clone where I found it. Even at $18,000 original cost, getting a clone for $500 would be a fantastic deal. And you would expect an amp with a Class A bias to run a little hot and draw a lot of current while idle.

What pre do you recommend? Do you know what the input impedance is? I am thinking to run a tube pre if possible. Thank you

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

I don't know the input resistance, sorry - I can measure input resistance for you when I get back from short vacation now. I'm using it directly with DAC - Gustard has good volume control built in. In my experience adding pre always results in some detail loss, but may warm up the sound. This one doesn't need this warming - it's great as it is

@De132an

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx Thanj you. My dac has no volume control but my streamer has a remote control volume. I might try it.

Have you encountered any hum coming from your speakers?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Dead silent black background.

Sounds like a winner, except the heat. Are there any keepers that run cooler?

@k4syx

22 күн бұрын

That would be only D class amps. Tube, class A, class AB, class XD (Cambridge Audio) - all run warm. I'd say class AB isnt that bad, compared to class A or tubes :)

@HotSause

22 күн бұрын

​@@k4syxAny specific AB replica amp you deem worthy? Thanks for the reply.

@k4syx

22 күн бұрын

@@HotSause look at the review of the DartZeel clone I've posted a few weeks ago. Highly recommended, amazing amp!

Great video. I would wonder if the caps are fake?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

I was too, but I went for it anyway as decided that I can replace them easily if I won't like the voicing of the amp and the price is insane (in EU that would be for case and toroidal transformer alone)

OK please supply link to order one of these thanks!

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

I've added the link in the description of the video

Hello there.... I stumbled across your video while searching for an amp upgrade. Is this better than Cambridge Evo or NAD C298 ???

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Yes, I think so, but this one is pure power amp with only one set of single ended inputs, remember about that.

@tango_gru

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx I can put multiple inpus on the external DAC and just use this as a pure Amp. That should do the trick. I hope I understood correctly what you are trying to say.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@tango_gru Yes exactly, that's what I meant :)

Hello, i am very tempted to buy one of these . But at the same time , what do you think about the other part of these amplifiers, i mean the ncx500 , nilai from hypex , apollon. They are class d . The price difference between this and the others class d mentioned is not so big . If anyone had any experience with hypex class d amp or apollon , please please let us know. Good work and thank you for this video

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Thank you. My experience with class D is TPA 31/32 series and Infineon Merus chips. They are cool and can be described as a bit "dry" sounding. This one is better. Though I haven't heard hypex modules or TOTL implementations like Wadia stuff..

@pojjo1973

7 күн бұрын

What car would you buy? : a Fiat 500 1.0 with Turbo and 200 HP or a BMW 6 Cilinder 2.5 and 200 HP eg

@k4syx

6 күн бұрын

Thank you! It beats all D class amps I've heard so far, but these were usually TPA3255, 3252, MA12070 implementations. I'm yet to hear something from hypex for example. Having said that D class is great for the price. But this one even with such ridiculously low price is 4-5 times more expensive so it's not fair comparison.

Maybe I missed it, but does this amp have a voltage switch so it can run on 120 volts?

@k4syx

13 күн бұрын

It doesn't, but you can order 120V version from the store

Does it power off automatically , if there is nothing playing ???

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

No, it doesn't. Old school without any additional sensing circuits.

Thanks for the review. Very intriguing. Which one would you prefer, this or the Musical Fidelity A1 clone? I have the Fosi Audio V3 mono on preorder, thinking of canceling that and take a plunge on this one.

@k4syx

21 күн бұрын

That's a tricky one so let's answer the simple one first. Yes, cancel the order, get this one and thank me later. Now to the hard part. DartZeel or MF A1 clone. The proper answer for me is both. MF A1 won't be able to drive my electrostats (it's just 20W per channel), so DartZeel for these. But my Motion 35XTi are not so difficult load and although DartZeel is splendid, that little MF clone does wonders to mids, vocals that's like liquid gold. So for me, both of them. But if you have just one pair of speakers you can choose one that matches them better. What's your setup? What kind of speakers do you have?

@nabildanial00

21 күн бұрын

@@k4syx thanks for the reply. i have a pair of jbl 250ti jubilee. i don't think they're too difficult to drive, 8 ohm nominal but in my experience they prefer more juice for the best bass control. so i guess the d5pro is the way to go then. i actually have the naim clone bought from the same aliexpress store, it is decent but not great. i think my other class d amp sound better (topping pa5) in every single way other than tonality.

@k4syx

21 күн бұрын

@@nabildanial00 these beasts need almost as much juice as my Logans! Go for D5PRO, MF will be too weak to drive them with ease..

@nabildanial00

21 күн бұрын

@@k4syx haha i inherit them from my grandad but i don't listen to them loud coz i live in an apartment. tbh they're way too big for my place but they sound wonderful even with puny amps like the topping. never had a chance to drive them with real amps, so d5pro it is then.

@k4syx

21 күн бұрын

@@nabildanial00 beware, there's a chance that you'll hear them together and move them to your apartment as a result :D

I wish it had 12v trigger auto-on

@k4syx

4 күн бұрын

Me too. This however is a very focused build with two mono amps only. As a interesting fact: original, 50kUSD DartZeel also lacks 12v triggers :(

I wander how did it sounded right out of the box compared to after burning in.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

It was really good, that's why I went for burn-in. If something sounds bad right out of the box I'm either retuning it or selling, burn-in can refine things but never changes the overall signature much.

@ilanspiro1645

Ай бұрын

Thanks ;)

I've seen different vendors selling at different prices, up to $650. Which vendor did you use?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Funkenya - I've linked them in the description

@kevinusta7534

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx they actually have three in their store. I'm trying to find a difference, but cant find one highlighted. One does say upgrades, didn't indicate what was upgraded.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@kevinusta7534 look for the one that has D5 Pro as an option to choose. This is upgraded meaning + slow start, additional capacitance, additional pairs of transistors (more output power)

Hello, I just read in basically all comments that you recommend using DAC instead of pre amp. I ask this because im going to buy a Denafrips Ares II 12-1 I have a Wim streamer. So, how can i control the volume? With the streamer digital volume? Thanks for any advice. By the way i think im going to buy the "version* of this featured amp on your review, but the one im going to buy have 2 toroidal transformers. What do you think? (Its also on AliExpress)

@k4syx

21 күн бұрын

Yes you can use digital volume control from streamer or DAC (when possible) and you'll be fine. I haven't heard this particular version: two transformers in theory should give 100% dual mono setup but final sound quality depends also o quality of other parts, PCB design etc. If that's DartZeel clone, then circuit should be fine, so just look for quality of parts used

@aleksandarstojceski3139

8 күн бұрын

I have the Ares. You do need preamp or dac with volume,othewise you risk your speakers.

@k4syx

8 күн бұрын

@@aleksandarstojceski3139 yes you need something that will control the volume

@k4syx

8 күн бұрын

Hi! Well you'll need something to control volume. If Ares doesn't do that, and your streamer does, you'll be fine as long as you'll always be sure it's not booting up with max volume. But you can try that before you'll purchase anything else. Two toroids for two channels sounds good, but I don't know which clone exactly you have on your mind :)

@aleksandarstojceski3139

8 күн бұрын

@@k4syx is this amp really 300w? Thr original was 100w i think.

These "Elna for Audio" caps can be purchased on your favourite portal. Surprisingly, they are not shipped from Japan and listed as unbranded further down in the description. Hope that sheds some light on the true origins of this feature.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Yes I've seen them there and that got me wondering. I went for it anyway because cap replacement with these boards is very easy so in time when I will feel the itch I can get something better locally (maybe even a bit higher capacity) and have fun replacing them :)

@paulb4661

Ай бұрын

I would take a close look at transistors tbh, wonder how many of industry favourites, no longer manufactured for decades, miraculously found their way there. Im not saying the Chinese cannot make proper stuff, they can and do, but knock off is usually just that, a knock off.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@paulb4661 I think Frank in his vid mentions that he checked them and found to be real. These are not some unique Sankens which reminds me that I was going to write them down and post that in description here

@paulb4661

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx With these caps on board, I wouldn't be surprised, if transistors were just as genuine. They may not try to pass for Sanyos you mention, but whoever's behind the enterprise, cannot possibly run the assembly at a loss.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@paulb4661 they don't - I've asked about this and they said that businesses that are producing electronic devices for export are subsidied by the state. Which is worrying in the long run for various reasons. But this price is impossible even just for a case with toroidal transformer of that quality, not mentioning pcbs, all other parts and labour. And Omrons there are original, WIMAs are real (I'm using them locally TME or Mouser sourced so I can compare). Without subsidies explaining this that's just impossible. When I was deciding on purchase the final argument for me was that even if every single electronic part there was fake, it would still be a good deal for me even if I would have to replace all of them ;) I'll check the transistor types and add that to the description when I'll get home around Friday

I was looking at the pictures of the real DartZeel and found that the internals look really different on this clone , the caps are smaller but the number of Caps is higher. Also noticed another Dartzeel 1 clone on Ali express that has similar internals but priced at around 1200 with big Caps n all.... any suggestions on this ?

@k4syx

24 күн бұрын

Yes this clone (D5Pro) has additional caps and transistor pairs compared to standard version (D5). Also, PCBs are optimized for this particular case.

@tango_gru

24 күн бұрын

@@k4syx I guess you missed my query. I noticed another dartzeel clone with lesser but bigger caps on Ali express that looks close to the original one. That one is around 1200 and has the external chassis look also similar to the original one as well as the internal circuit.

@k4syx

24 күн бұрын

@@tango_gru yes there are a few of them, these more similar are more expensive, the most expensive are 1:1 (including chassis, XLR and BNC inputs). I have no experience with them though - cant tell you anything useful about sound quality.

How can anyone call this a clone. Dartzeel NHB-108 use only one pair out output transistors without any emitter resistors. This design use three complementary pairs WITH emitter resistors. The design of the Dartzeel output stage is a very important part of the excellence in sound quality and this design don't even try to use the same technology.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Well its not a 1:1 clone down to every single bit (though you can get these as well). This is cloned and then repurposed a bit and yes, the original or 1:1 clone will sound better - surely! But this one is great for what it is and for the price is simply amazing. Having bought this one, I am tempted to get 1:1 replica - right down to shape of plates conducting cap terminals. But I need my wallet to recover as I got A LOT of stuff lately :)

@minuteskill

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx How much are the 1:1 clone? Link?

@JRadian

19 күн бұрын

@@k4syx How can you tell on Aliexpress which one is 1:1 clone of Dartzeel? I was going to buy some of those Fosi ZA monos or Aiyama, but how does class D compare to Dartzeel clone?

@k4syx

19 күн бұрын

@@JRadian DartZeel clone will be better, but way more expensive especially if you're looking for 1:1 clone. You can recognize them because they are called replicas, they look like the DartZeel (along with red eyes etc), they have top cover made of glass and internals look exactly like DartZeel original - you can find photos of original to compare

@JRadian

18 күн бұрын

@@k4syx I just saw your review of Musical Fidelity clone. I need very little power because I will be powering my 110dB horns from 1kHz and up only. Just need few awesome watts.

Amazing Reviews. Thank you.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Thank you!

which preamp did u use with it

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

None, my DAC has great volume control (Gustard X26 Pro)

The link is to the cheaper D5 version. Do you have the link to the D5Pro ?

@k4syx

25 күн бұрын

That's the same link, you're choosing the variant before placing order in your shopping cart.

@wonganglai370

22 күн бұрын

@@k4syx My bad...

@k4syx

22 күн бұрын

@@wonganglai370 no problem, cheers!

what degree of assembly is required?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

None at all. That's ready to use device.

Awesome video. Looks like something I would definitely would like to try. The price now is like $455 plus about $150 for shipping to the U.S.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Last night Ali started sale and you can use code for 50euro to lower the price (CDPU50 as I can see in my app). I wonder if they will raise the price when they'll see more orders.

Are there clones of the NHB-468 tho?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

If the patents expired too, probably

Hi to all :) Did anyone who ordered and already received this amp also had or still havind HUM issues? If so, i would like to know if it eas already solved and how. I know that Garry from the uk also had some hum experience with this anp. Regardless, it is a wonderful amp. Many thanks Ilan ;)

@k4syx

15 күн бұрын

Hi Ilan! That's a good idea, it would also be useful to have info on exact voltage in the area. Mine: 240V (237V measured)/50Hz and dead silent, no humming.

@qwerty123860

14 күн бұрын

No hum here . ( I have the same amp )

@ilanspiro1645

14 күн бұрын

​@@qwerty123860 Thanks

@taho88

13 күн бұрын

@@ilanspiro1645 No hum here if I turn my system on and off in the correct order.If not then I get a hum. Remember when turning on its source first, amp last. When shutting down its amp first.

@ilanspiro1645

13 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing. Actually I'm very aware with the order of turning on/off of my system. Unfortunately, my unit has a constant hum from the get go..makes me crazyyy :(

Tenho 3 pré-amplificadores Transaudio C5PRO clone naim 152 C11pro balanceado clone naim e C19 clone Conrad Johnson PV12 todos são absolutamente divinos, O som é ótimo em todos eles estou viciado nestes aparelhos . Ouço um por semana e não me canso

what preamp You use?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

None, my DAC has great volume control (Gustard X26 Pro)

Hi does this amp has xrl version and if so what is the price range?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

This one doesn't have XLRs. 1:1 clones have it, as well as BNCs, but these are different devices about 3 to 4 times more expensive fro from what I've seen.

@user-dapeng661

Ай бұрын

Actually the maker of this amp does offer a version with xlr inputs which they call it the "Master" series but the internals are the same setup and housed in a slightly bigger case (450mm vs 430mm width). They seems to be only available in their Chinese Taobao site and is costing around usd100 more. They call it D9 .

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Thank you for this info ​@@user-dapeng661!

@tango_gru

Ай бұрын

go through other comments ... you will find the answer

@HiFi Zone may I know what preamplifier you used with this D5 Pro?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Everyone asks about that :) None, as I've learned over the years that every single pre I was using, regardless of price range, was cutting some fine detail from DAC output (and you can hear that with electrostats) so I've settled with volume regulated by DAC.

@johan5660

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx Thank you for the reply. Great review. I never believed in cloned products until I watched your video. Thank you for exploring the clones. I am planning to buy one.

Oooh yes. That is interesting. You should also try fm300a amp.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

This and FM255. Both on my radar :)

@tamayaytam

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx there is a review on KZread about fm300a. It is reviewers' end game. Everybody's end game is different

Can you bridge this amp??

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Nope. Just regular plain stereo ;)

Did you measure the power consumption?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Yes it's like 150W idling and up to 170W when playing with my volume level - on highly efficient electrostats

@sebastian_harnisch

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx thanks! That is substantial (at least for an amp that runs for hours and hours a day, not so much if it is only used more selectively.)

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@sebastian_harnisch yes, the burn in process will make a dent on my electricity bill ;) However at the moment I'm burning in tube amp that uses 200W minimum, having 2x40W output max.

Is this an class AB amp?

@k4syx

21 күн бұрын

Yes that's AB

Can it handle 2 ohm impedance well?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

With flying colors. My Ascents I drop to 1.2Ohm in treble region and because of that are a difficult load. But this baby handles that without a sweat

@ilanspiro1645

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx Great news , Thanks :)

I prefer class H amplifiers.. I have class H class D and class AB amps. for my home sound system.. Pioneer, Rockville, and JBL.. $50,000 for one home stereo amp. is ridiculous! EVEN with HIGH-quality parts!! There are so many options out there for much less that are just as good in many ways.. I run about 12,000-watts.. Each of my 4 Rockville RPA-16 amps. weigh 47lbs. each.. Class H.. That kinda sucks that the inputs are RCA! They should be XLR inputs! My class H amps. have 4 15,000-Fu capacitors.. I believe at 80-volts.. You have 60,000-Fu more than I do in my amps..

Hey friend,how can this amp be so darn cheap?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

I've asked the same question. They've told me that all businesses that are working on electronic devices are getting government funding as this builds the knowledge expertise. In the long run, EU and US may loose technical advantages if we won't do something similar. But that's another subject, for another video..

Sadly most of these clone does not have XLR. My dac only has XLR out.

@k4syx

15 күн бұрын

Yes XLR is not very popular. It somewhat complicates the signal path circuit. If your DAC has only XLRs that's no problem because you can use RCA adapters that use just + and zero signals giving you regular line out. Conversion this way is simple, you just take 2 of 3 signal lines. The other way around, from single ended to XLR - that's difficult. Just get 2 XLR to RCA adapters, these are cheap and you'll be perfectly fine!

@Littlesloths

4 күн бұрын

@@k4syx there is a D9 version with XLR input which is based on the D5 pro

@k4syx

4 күн бұрын

@@Littlesloths yes look at my other answer to your second comment :)

no sound test????????????

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

No, I'm recording these with my phone (believe it or not) so the sound especially after YT compression would be crapfest. Trust me I've tried :) Maybe I'll buy some good microphone at some point in time, I was thinking about using it with REW to asses some stuff I've built.

Wew you able to tour hands on fm300a clone?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

No, sorry. Maybe in some point in time if my budget will allow some "test only" purchases.

@MasterofPlay7

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx i heard from the german youtuber is very good amp

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@MasterofPlay7 would that be Frank that also reviewed this D5Pro?

@MasterofPlay7

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx the iam mad guy

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@MasterofPlay7 ah, ok & thx will watch that one!

What pre amp do you recommend?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Actually, none. I've found over the years that every pre was cutting some fine detail from my tunes. Yes, it's convenient to have remote and more inputs, but I could hear loss in SQ.

@shannonwilliams6623

Ай бұрын

@k4syx my lumin u1 mini had volume control and goes to my dac so I'm assuming I could use my streamer as a preamp amp what do you think? Also I'm considering on buying the dartzeel amplifier you reviewed but after looking I noticed they have other dartzeel amplifiers do you think the more expensive ones would be even better in performance, considering your experience on buying through Ali express items?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

​@@shannonwilliams6623yes that will work just fine. More expensive versions can be better, which one you're talking about?

@andrewstaub2132

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx I'm curious about the D5 Pro preamp/power amplifier (integrated amp) that the vendor offers. Just a little more money, but a little less power too. I don't need the power, but the added flexibility would be good if the sound is at the same level. Also, do you recommend the fake AQ Silver Cloud PC for this use, with or without the DBS?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

@@andrewstaub2132 Silver Cloud is a great choice here. I was also wondering about version with pre built in, making this effectively integrated amp, but I've decided to get and evaluate one that is pure power amp to be able to compare it with my current power amps. So I don't have anything useful on the SQ of that version with pre :(

This or FM300A? 🤔

@k4syx

Күн бұрын

That's excellent question I hope to answer one day! FM300A is on my bucket list!

ahhh! No demonstration!

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

No, as I don't have pro grade mic, I'm recording these with my phone. And sound quality test recorded with phone and then compressed by YT would be a very bad way to asses the sound :D

If they can create a fake amplifier they can create fake elna caps So I wouldn't count on the originalty of the caps and other parts in this amp. 😢

@k4syx

8 күн бұрын

Well the amp is clone, not fake, the patents expired so you can make your own replica or something based on original circuit legally. But you're right about the caps, you never know for sure even when getting them from better local sources. Having said that what I like about this clone (and Musical Fidelity clone too) is that the build is dead simple and very diy friendly - you can easily and quickly replace all of them even if just for the fun of checking other caps. Most of the commercial AV equipment nowadays is so cramped inside and so hard to disassemble that it doesn't compare to elegant builds like this one.

@pojjo1973

6 күн бұрын

trust me....they're real ones

@user-oe1jk2ro4o

6 күн бұрын

@@pojjo1973 Still i would prefered to buy an orginal product with an original design from a more affordable brand then a chiness clone of a ultra high end brand

220 volt ...............I have 240 volt !

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

And you'll be perfectly fine as standard is 220/230/240 and still it always measures randomly between 210 and 240 ;)

@frankgeeraerts6243

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx ok THANKS !

@Mark-rw3kw

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx I wonder about that, since China does use 220 volts. I have had a lot of Chinese products go bad that were rated for 110 volts (for USA), but the USA uses 120V now, and some US utilities routinely actually measure up to 125V during non-peak hours. On many products, I doubt that the Chinese do much testing to make sure these actually hold up long term under the higher voltages. Power supply capacitors in particular can fail early under higher AC voltages, and it is always best to way over-spec the voltage ratings on capacitors used in electronic equipment.

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

​@@Mark-rw3kwmy power outlets measure 239, though official standard says it should be 220V. I guess for example 10V more is less percentage for 220V than for 120V and in general all power supplies should accept +/- 5? 10 maybe? % different voltage. Anyway, so far, this one works flawlessly with my 239V ;)

@Mark-rw3kw

Ай бұрын

@@k4syx I am not questioning that these Chinese products will initially work at the higher voltages, I just have doubts (based on experience) about how long they will continue to work over the long term. I had a Samsung TV back in 2007 that eventually had 6 power supply capacitors go bad, and there was a class-action lawsuit about it. I have also had many Chinese products go bad over time, simply because the power supply capacitor ratings were too low, and over time there are tun-on surges that cause them to go bad. I was just speculating the reason for this problem is that in China they actually do use 220V and probably test USA versions at 110V.

700€ sind ja kein Pappenstiel. Und wer kauft schon die Katze im Sack? Spannungsfest für Europa?

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Excellent question. I think one of the points that Frank is making in his review (in german) is that this build is so simple that is very easy to diagnose and repair and I can totally agree. So you could service it in any "generic" electronic workshop. But still, it would be great to have EU distributor for them, although I would expect no so great price then... (please write in english, I needed to fire up my PC to get that translated as YT app wouldnt let me copy text contents of your comment)

Can use two as mono amps or no boss?

@k4syx

3 күн бұрын

You can but not in bridging mode, via using one channel amp of each amplifier. But I'd say this would be pointless (unless biamping) because it's already dual mono inside. But using two in biamping mode (one amp per channel, one channel internally for treble and second for bass) would be cool

Any amp at 50k is at least 48k overpriced. It's not even balanced. You can buy way better amps, NCX500 for example, but at 3 times the price of this one. 2 years in electricity bills and you are even. PS. Shipping is not free. It's 130 Euro/ 140 US Dollars

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

Absolutely.

The box only 😊costs $470

@k4syx

Ай бұрын

I've paid exactly 488usd, you need to remember that in a step right before payment the amount you need to pay is lowered by VAT which in my case is 23prc. In the link I provided there is no option for box only? Or are you referring to the value of the case alone? :)