I totally vote for a Roll for Combat deep dive video about scriptwriting and adventure design with Linda. She was great and she should be more often on the show.

@dmeep

Ай бұрын

yes adventure design with linda, hear hear

I am totally up for the Book Club idea. 10/10 would watch. :)

This was very interesting, however, I would have liked that Linda and Mark had also read the adventure so we could get their own perspectives.

A Roll for Combat Adventure book club actually sounds amazing especially if the conversation were interactive (Discord?). I also think it would help inexperienced as well as veteran DM's to run/write and sadly fix "bad" adventures.

@mateofantasma

Ай бұрын

This is a great idea!

1:19:20 The time travel was really fun and a good look in a obscure place of HIstory.

The next stream needs to be “how to make vecna eve of ruin work”

I just checked, and the original Death House map was a color map. Dyson Logos did all these maps original for the Vecna adventure, I'm pretty sure. (So this is Dyson's interpretation of Death House).

Hyphen-gate, LoL. Love it!

YES! Do an entire episode discussing campaign design theory. I second that one for sure. I know story structure and I've wondered for some time how campaign design differs from building a novel's plot structure. Very much a plotter not a pantser.

2:03:48 Seeing the three doors would make look for a fourth one.

The book club for adventures as a concept sounds good. But I assume there will be many you wouldn't be able to talk about

The different maps could be justified if they say the cartographers on each plane are the ones that did the maps. But having only two artists sort of defeats that. It isn't a problem for Vecna being defeated at all, he can resurrect by a phylactery. Stopping his plot is more important. It seems like the rod was made by modrons by the pictures.

Really enjoyed this stream! I heartily endorse the idea of a RFC book club!

Vecna’s adventure needs a hand amirite

Strahd never gets involved with cults until the end. He doesn't care about them until the party gets the rod.

This book sounds like it would be much better as a boss rush and scrap all the filler. I also love the idea of strahd stealing the rod then fighting the players for the fun of it then gets surprised when they take him down and he turns to mist and returns to the castle.

At what time does the review start?

@Excallium

Ай бұрын

About 30:00

If you ordered after 4/3], you got caught up in the new marketplace and did not get it. I git mine on time with no problem. They fixed it as far as I know.

Just like with Mass Effect, I didn't believe the ending would really be that bad that it would undo all the awesome parts of the whole story, and I was wrong...

as much as you talked about Age of Worms, you should do that for the "book club adventure review" show.

AND local game stores have gotten it early. They’ve gotten the book 3 weeks early. So I’m actively being punished for pre-ordering because if I go after the refund the money won’t get back to my account until almost the date I would get it anyway. Very frustrated

The first layer of Nine Hells is ruled by Zariel, unless you redeemed or killed her in Descent into Avernus, in this case players may have helped decide who should be ruling Avernus (it could even be themselves). Or it could be Bel. I am starting a Descent Into Avernus campaign and I couldn't resist, I'm definitely going to use the Red Belvedere. I like the settings and monsters but the overall story is very poor. I would have fun picking it apart though

Another WoTC product feeling like a skeleton / half-finished? I'm shocked!

@jltheking3

Ай бұрын

It just really is tragic how they hired so many good writers from Paizo and instead of letting them do what they’re good at - writing good adventures - they point them to cranking out the usual WotC turds instead. Sigh. What a waste of talent.

Honestly, how I feel about this module after having read it is basically the same as my feelings towards Strahd: good bones but terrible roadmap/story. As for the wish spell, I feel like the biggest issue of "why the PCs" could be solved with one of the characters like Tasha basically pulling a Dr Strange and seeing the players as the only ones who could "possibly" succeed against Vecna given their link as the connection accidentally made it so they can collect the rod and enter Vecna's lair unnoticed

Why are they sending EXPENDABLES? There you go. The thing I am looking at is summoning the PCs is using Wish for something other than duplication of a spell below 9th lvl so STR=3 and 1d10 damage per lvl when casting a spell. What happens if your party decides they want the toys of these mages? I'm sure my lvl 11 Wizard is just druling over theit toys and the Marshalls likely can match them if they surprise the casters.

27:06 I thought mark had the good mic.

Hi, I'm new here. I don't have Eve of Vecna (don't see myself running it), but this video is kind of wild. These two are like, "I can see why they'd do that, or how that could be really cool, or what a good DM could do with that!", which is great! I'd watch them do that any time. But then this other guy is just hellbent on hating it and making them hate it too.

@RogueEidolon1

Ай бұрын

Mark here! If you're interested, Linda and I have our own channel where we talk about various topics in usually about 1-hour episodes (it's small and can use viewer support to help us reach eligibility): www.youtube.com/@arcanemark2562

@TheOnceandFutureJake

Ай бұрын

Which is the one hellbent on making them hate it?

My players are 100% going tô fight Sthrad

This sounds exactly like what they did with Dragonlance. I was very disappointed in the book. Very little in supplemental information and the adventure which was interesting was very bare bones versus the original modules.

Mark, Crawford gutted the Spelljammer and Planescape settings when he and Perkins did 5e Spelljammer. Then the Planescape 5e guys walked that all back in a way, but it's all still really iffy now.

The original map of Death House was in color not B&W.

I just find it interesting that the whole adventure is the result of a wish spell.

I'm in the process.of adapting Tiranny of Dragons and have read most 5e campaigns. It seems your impressions are the usual.problems of those kind of products. Full of brilliant scenarios that requires a lot (and I mean a lot) of work tò be collected together in a meaningful way. There Is an industry in the sector of guides that help to adapt official wotc's campaigns That' why I ain't going to buy big campaign books anymore. Just sad even the anniversary Adventure suffers of this problem.

i do love that eberron of all the locations legit sounds much better then anything else if the ppl involved in that did pathfinder stuff. which is funnier when thinking of pathfinder origins it did take good amount of influence from dnd 3.5 eberron setting, so it kinda went full circle. funnier and also cruel: wotc sees ppl compare thje eberron segment like pathfinder, not in a negative way but a good way and want more like this. someone or handful of execs in wotc be like "@#$! no! we aint pathfinder, we aint gonna be like them and compared our content with them, remove the ppl that wrote the eberron part from wotc and get new writers that stick to dnd motto!" and happened out of petty reasons. in a way that is a wotc thing to do if it happens. even crueler: universe nuke eberron so doesnt exist anymore, migrate out key races like warforged to other universes, give them new name so cut off eberron orgins and thye works. all because to remove pathfinder roots and influences.

@mirrikybird

Ай бұрын

I don't think this is the case since dnd 5.2 has a lot more in common with pathfinder 2e than 5e did. They also keep hiring people who worked at paizo

The first part of the adventure gives a summary of each chapter and a section on running the game that combined gives you the connective tissue. Plus every chapter ends with a section on what's next, wrapping up ghe chapter and detailing the PCs next steps. The DM has plenty of info. The adventure also is better of the players run the prequel adventure, although it is for lower level players. It is designed to be played in less than 4 hours. You could create your characters at the level for the prequel and then advance them to 10th to jump into the adventure.

@RollForCombat

Ай бұрын

These are not "connective tissue", these are just simple intros and outro. If you read a Paizo adventure or most other adventures, they give detailed backgrounds, motivations, outlines and structure around each section and truly connect adventure locations. The best example of them doing this correctly is the Eberron chapter. THAT chapter has lots of connective tissue and feels complete. What WoTC is fine, but it will require a lot of work on the DMs part to connect these chapters in an organic way.

Mark wants to defend the books detail shortcomings based on page count but that is no excuse at all. WotC had complete control over the product. They could increase the page count or reduce the number of levels/adventures or use better, more concise writing. They had all the choices. Frankly, it gets tiresome that he defends flawed writing and plot structure so fervently.

@starethesky

Ай бұрын

Last adventure of 5e deserved better

Not inclined to celebrate wotc repeating what they already promised. You get kudos for the promise, kudos for completing the promise. Anything in between is just noise.

Stephen is being unfair, I think Linda and Mark did a better job explaining some of the design choices.

The encounter with Strahd is not an automatic win if the inquisitor is with you. If she is not friendly to the party,, she leaves you to fight strahd. If she lies that you are members of her order, you still have to make a deception check to convince him it is true or he attacks you. If he wins, it is no different than if NY other boss wins, so I don't get the big deal made about all the work the DM hs to do to save the adventure if strahd wins.

@RollForCombat

Ай бұрын

Fair enough, but I do wish there was some background information on WHY Strahd lets them go, even for the DM so that they can roleplay him correctly.

*The only way to make sure art is not AI made is to stop using digital files.* Only physical media paintings , drawings & sculptures.

If you were a fan of the original Spelljammers, you will be very disappointed with the 5th ed version. The only book that is good among the trio is the monster manual. The adventure book was ok.

Does WOTC know how to write any adventures that doesn't surround Vecna?

@badmojo0777

Ай бұрын

have you seen the other 27 adventures theyve released since 2014?

@jltheking3

Ай бұрын

@@badmojo0777 Yeah and they’re all just as bad as this one LOL.

Camapigns can be designed with a SANDBOX feel. Adventures cannot. Thats a lot harder to do with an Adventure. People also nee dot remember that not eveyr adventure is fo0r everyone, some players like a more streamlined adventures and dont like sandbox adventurers/campaigns. Not eveyr adventure/Campaign is FOR YOU :D

@yohahn12

Ай бұрын

If adventure simply means short form content, then you absolutely can make this with an open or sandbox structure. Furthermore, in a sandbox structure, the different elements have far greater potential to produce far more interactions with each other (than in a linear one). The larger the scope of the product, the more interactions that there need to be considered. Your logic that a short form product with an open structure is harder to design, just doesn't follow. Unless of course you just mean sandbox vs linear is harder to design for? If adventure to you means a linear narrative structure, then I'm not sure why you'd even raise this point, as that's simply by definition two mutually exclusive design structures or goals.

It just really is tragic how they hired so many good writers from Paizo and instead of letting them do what they’re good at - writing good adventures - they point them to cranking out the usual WotC turds instead. Sigh. What a waste of talent.

If you’re going to make a 3 hour video full of spoilers, could you also at least give a review / opinion at the top for people interested in that only? Or at least somewhere in the video with a time code skip to the actual review.

@jltheking3

Ай бұрын

I’ll summarize the points said by the group. The book comes with some great set pieces, but it critically lacks in connective tissue and doesn’t provide enough background information and detail to run encounters well. I.e., it has the same problems as every other D&D 5e adventure published by WotC. All you need to know about the adventure is that for something called Vecna: Eve of Ruin, Vecna only shows up in 2 out of 256 pages. And that it crams in 11 levels worth of adventuring into 150 pages of content. As contrasted with Paizo adventures which usually provide about 3 levels of adventuring in 100 pages. All of the book’s problems stem from these 2 facts. It’s written as multiple separate disconnected albeit cool adventures with nothing connecting them together. It’s barely about Vecna. And it’ll require a lot of “fixing” by the GM to run it.

@justanotherwebdev292

Ай бұрын

@@jltheking3 Thanks much for that. I didn’t want all of the spoilers, just that type of info, so I really appreciate you taking the time to summarize it.