My personal favourite of the Basic Sets, (the one that got me into D&D) was the 1983 Mentzer Red box and BECMI sets. Larry Elmores art was so awe inspiring, it made you want to play the game. I still feel that era of artwork, Elmore, Caldwel, Easley etc really captured the essence and mood of D&D. I lost my Red Box years ago, left it at a friends house and never asked for it back. Recently my Wife treated me to a copy off Ebay. Every time I open it, it still feels magical.

@paavohirn3728

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! Yes it does.

This is the best review I have seen of the necessary "products" for playing the post-Holmes Basic line (B/X, BECM-no-I), bar none, in the here and now (thanks to PDFs and POD!). If anyone is interested in Holmes, you don't have a lot of options: the available copies are expensive and tattered, and Holmes itself has some flaws; holmes77 is no longer available?; Mazes&Perils is great, but becomes something that Holmes was not; and BlueHolme Prentice. BlueHolme Prentice is free (levels 1-3) and is pretty faithful to Holmes, with a few minor issues (clerics are pulled from Moldvay, oddly enough; and no sample adventure - but you can find the free Necropolis of Nuromen in PDF). For higher "Holmsian" style levels, there is the BlueHolme Journeymanne rules, which fixes some of the issues in Prentice. Great work! Keep up these vids! I could watch these all day long ... and get fired :)

@DravenSwiftbow

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much, but I really don't want you to get fired. Also thank you for the suggestions, I am not really familiar with many OSR alternatives to early Holmes D&D, I will check out the Journeymanne rules and see what they are like.

I have The Black Box (I believe the title on it is The New Easy To Master Dungeons and Dragons Game) and the three mini-campaign sets that were in the same format. The Black Box is a nifty starter set that will take players from levels 1 to 5, and features the introductory module Escape from Zanzer's Dungeon. The Black Box version of the module features a series of progressive cards (housed in a pocket in a nifty little DM's screen) that first teach a single person the basic rules of the game, then expands out into a module that teaches players the rules as they actually play the module. Players don't create their characters beforehand - they fill in the details as they play through the module. There's also a rule book that comes with it. It had a presentation change in a later product that I think was called The Classic Dungeons and Dragons Game that was the same materials and module in a somewhat more standard format. After that, TSR released three other boxed sets in the same format that they called Adventure Packs. They consisted of: - The Goblin's Lair - The Dragon's Den - The Haunted Tower Each was a three-module mini-campaign that would take players from level 1 to 3. They were set in the Thunder Rift setting that TSR seemed to set all their Challenger line of D&D products in. All four of these products featured little fold-up cardstock standees to represent PCs and monsters. They also all featured very nice poster maps of all the dungeons, and a little variant in the back of the module books with rules for playing the adventure as a board game rather than a D&D module. They're pretty nifty, and I've seen The Black Box, The Goblin's Lair, and The Dragon's Den go fairly inexpensively in new or barely used condition. The Haunted Tower seems to be far rarer - that one I paid far more for after searching for one online for months. But if you can get these, they are a LOT of fun. I have a group going through them right now via a homebrew Castles & Crusades conversion I've done with the modules.

@b3h8t1n

Жыл бұрын

I started with dragon quest and the black box (and it's expansions) fun times 😬

X4 - Master Desert Nomads and X5 - Temple of Death are my favorite BECMI adventures.

@VonChokerWOT

5 жыл бұрын

add to that X10 Red arrow Black shield which adds the war against the master and includes a campaign and counters for running a full war machine military campaign. Love that book

@shallendor

5 жыл бұрын

I'll have to check that out, i never picked it up. Thanks.

Moldvay/Cook were almost identical to BECMI version. The main difference was the Mentzer version had a great series of introductory information and scenarios for beginners to the hobby. It however did not come with a stand alone module in the Basic Red Box however. The Magenta box did. Totally concur with your recommendation to get B1-9. It is a fantastic buy for anyone interested in classic module writing and great modules. X1 is also a must buy. I would highly recommend anyone wanting to run a campaign in Mystara to get the Gazeteers and Wrath of the Immortals as they are invaluable for the world and campaign

@alutheranlearningspanish1719

5 жыл бұрын

The Mentzer Red Box would be a great $10 add-on to the Rules Cyclopedia, if only to have the player and gm tutorial scenarios you mentioned here. The Rules Cyclopedia was definitely meant to be a rules reference, not a learning tool. See Russell Harquail's comment below for the other major difference between Moldvay/Cook and Mentzer: thief skill progression.

I should mention that the thief skill %’s progress notably slower in the Rules Cyclopedia compared to B/X and BECMI editions. That’s probably the biggest difference between the RC and the rest.

@VonChokerWOT

5 жыл бұрын

That was done to account for improvement up to 36 levels iirc

@Russell.Harquail

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I believe I’d read somewhere that there was an intention in B/X to introduce extra thief skills in the companion rulebook that never materialized for that edition as well.

@alutheranlearningspanish1719

5 жыл бұрын

This. Buyers/new players should be aware of this. It changes the balance for thieves quite a bit. BECMI GMs might want to substitute in the thief table from Moldvay/Cook, or from a free clone like B/X essentials.

The Shady Dragon Inn, aka. The Redshirt Repository! 😂

Moldvay and BECMI D&D are still my favorite versions of the game, great video!

@DravenSwiftbow

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Getting the Moldvay Rule set is one of my last major collecting goals

@thereluctanthireling

5 жыл бұрын

The Rules Cyclopedia as you mentioned is really all you need since the differences on minimal, but from a collection standpoint that would be a nice get!

That P.O.D of Rules Cyclopedia is on my Christmas List this year. Be great to plough and mine that.

I now have an eye watering shopping list but so worth it. Thankyou so much for these videos.

You hit the high points pretty well. I've got three copies of the Rules Cyclopedia, purchased back when they first came out. It's great to see a POD version from DrivethruRPG to keep this great product alive! 🏹 ⚔️ 🧙

AD&D had a Kingdom of Karameikos box set that included an adventure CD.

@DravenSwiftbow

5 жыл бұрын

Really? That is awesome!

@jeremywebster7912

5 жыл бұрын

@@DravenSwiftbow Yes, and a Glantri one as well. They had this series of Mystara based 2nd Edition AD&D products where, when the players made a decision, there was an audio track on a CD that you played for narration or sound effects or music or whatever. The quality of the acting and such can be... um.... variable. The products themselves were really great quality, though I guess a lot of Mystara fans weren't terribly happy that the sets implemented the worldwide political and geological changes that occurred in the Wrath of the Immortals set.

@paavohirn3728

2 жыл бұрын

Ah yes. That's what forced me to learn English as a kid before we started English Classes at school. The BECM boxes were translated.

Agree 100% on B1-9. I've played through it with maybe six different beginner groups over the years and it was a hit every time, and of course X1 is a classic. I can't wait for the 5e Goodman Games edition! GAZ series is good for years worth of campaign goodness and also the PC series can be good fun! My personal favourite is O series - The Gem and the Staff and Blade of Vengeance, some great 1on1 adventures.

@VonChokerWOT

5 жыл бұрын

The Gazeteers add so many layers to the game with a plethora of character options and campaign options that it becomes far more advanced than AD&D

The Cyclopedia is absolutely spectacular! I have my original but I think I'm going to grab a POD to use at the table.

Very thorough. I had the Shady Dragon Inn, and it came in handy many a time.

@jimzecca3961

2 жыл бұрын

It's a good accessory, like the Rogue's Gallery supplements or the NPC Codex/Villain Codex that Paizo put out. I like how they had the stats for the toy line characters like Strongheart and Warduke. I think WotC would do well to have a detailed book along those lines for 5E.

I only played the Holmes Basic set. It was a great introduction to D & D

Very helpful video, thank you! Having got started with the BECMI Red Box in the 80’s when recently looking to get back into the hobby this video was a great help. Having tried 5e, although being super polished and looking great it didn’t feel the same as the basic system I grew up with, 5e it took an entire session to create a character. After seeing this picked up the Rules Cyclopedia and haven’t looked back. Definitely captures the magic I felt opening up the Basic set ‘back in the day ‘!

Great video about a great edition. :) I would also suggest PC4 Creature Crucible: Night Howlers, which introduced rules for playing lycanthropes! The rules are pretty clunky, but the supplement was too cool for my young horror-fan heart. Also, when I visit Nova Scotia (my wife has family from there and really wants to visit), I can bring my D&D Black Box set if you want to check it out.

@VonChokerWOT

5 жыл бұрын

I also loved Top Ballista. It was a lot of goofy fun with the Gnome Air Ship home

@stephenclements6158

5 жыл бұрын

I never got a copy of that! It looked interesting.

@DravenSwiftbow

5 жыл бұрын

That would be really great if you can. When you are in the Province let me know.

@stephenclements6158

5 жыл бұрын

Will do! It won't be until the snow thaws next year at the earliest, so don't vacuum on my account just yet. ;)

The Mentzer box sets are the finest version of D&D ever released.

What’s your exposure to the OSR material? I’m thinking Basic Fantasy, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, and Old School Essentials.

Location and timelines for Mystara Modules www.pandius.com/mdlplace.html Always good to run B1-9 and coax the players to set up shop in Threshold. pandius.com/thrshld.html Of course you could always blow your players away and start them off in Irendi or Minrothad.

Thank you!

sooo this is for playing advanced dungeons and dragons i suppose but i think if i want to play 4th edition it's better buy the 2010 red box ?

@DravenSwiftbow

5 жыл бұрын

The 4E Red Box was really good and I recommend it if you can find it at a good price.

If you can get the books that came in Mentzer's red box and are introducing new players to roleplaying (especially younger players) they are possibly the best intro for both new players and even new DMs ever made.

Would this be good for a 13yr beginner? He is a strong reader with high comprehension and loves reading rule books.

@DravenSwiftbow

5 жыл бұрын

I believe it would be, a lot of younger people were introduced to D&D through the Basic Rules sets that comprise this book. The biggest issue with it might be the Weapon Mastery rules since even at 35 I find them a little confusing.

Draven, I am curious to know something about the Shady Dragon Inn, to make a more informed decision on whether or not to buy it: does it have the characters in it from the Moldvay Basic Set (Morgan Ironwolf, Black Dougal, Fredrick the Dwarf, Sister Rebecca and Silverleaf)? How about the characters named in the Mentzer Basic Set (Alanna, Bargle, Belrain, Clarion, Eagle-Eyes, Felonious, Fleetwood, Greegan, Huxley, Rolf, Ruggin, Touchberry and Whisper-Rain)?

@DravenSwiftbow

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the late reply. Shady Dragon predates the Mentzer releases so they are not in there. I didn't see the Moldvay Characters in there either, they appear to be more generic NPC's. The book does include the LJN toyline characters (Strongheart, Warduke etc.)

You made an error around the 4 minute mark as both 0D&D and Holmes D&D had Dwarves Elves and Hobbits (Halflings) as a class. This was carried through to the moldvay/cook era where they just dropped the fighting man tag for dwarves/halflings and the fighter and magicuser tag for simplicity. If you look at the rules of both you can see they are almost identical design to the 0D&D game from 1975 including the level restrictions. In facts it's AD&D 1st edition that was a departure from previous work that separated race and class also with a lot of attribute and level restrictions

@chrishall5440

5 жыл бұрын

Von Choker The original 1974 woodgrain box set with the 3 LBB restricted dwarves and hobbits to the fighting man class, but in the 1975 Greyhawk supplement when the thief class was introduced, all demi-humans were allowed to advance in that class without level restrictions. Holmes did revert, I believe, along with some other things from Greyhawk (variable weapon damage, fighter strength bonus, etc.).

@VonChokerWOT

5 жыл бұрын

I was talking about base games mainly. you are right about greyhawk supplement and Holmes was working from the 0D&D base game only

@DravenSwiftbow

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for letting me know that. I have never read the Holmes version before so I was basing my information off of an article (Another reason I don't generally discuss things I don't own)

My Rules Cyclopedia cost me $134.00.

@DravenSwiftbow

3 жыл бұрын

That's one of the better prices I have seen

@jimzecca3961

2 жыл бұрын

Makes me glad I got mine in 1991 for MSRP. I've read where the print-on-demand copy of the RC from Drivethru RPG/DM's Guild is pretty good. Currently priced at $21 for softcover and $26 for hardback.