The Ashby study has a lot of great information. Check it out if you haven't yet. This video hits the nail on the head with what's most important (perfect arrow flight). A hunter should spare no effort or expense to achieve that perfect flight. I think Jeff gets it completely wrong with the heavy arrow comments. The Ashby study has thousands of data points which is more than any archer will have in a lifetime. The study shows what can increase an arrows penetration, which happens to be an important factor in lethality (of course placement is important). Also, momentum is a better metric than KE for penetration. KE measures more for the arrow leaving your bow to the point of impact. Momentum is a metric for impact and after ie penetration. Just some food for thought here. Nothing but respect for this channel and all archers who agree or disagree.

@thehood6067

2 жыл бұрын

I have a pretty big 2ft by 2ft target and I can hit it just fine from 50 yds with a recurve traditional shooting style. Having trouble with placement. Sometimes seems mr arrows veer wildly instead of very straight. I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong. I got the target buy all over. Need much better grouping

I can’t say enough how much I appreciate your influence, approach, and recommendations. My hunting game has definitely moved forward with confidence. Thank you Jesus

Jeff, I have a lot of respect for you and always appreciate your advise! You def have more knowledge of how to get a big deer in front of you for a shot than I and I won’t deny that but I disagree on the light arrow set up....most guys are not able to properly tune their bows nowadays to shoot a cut on contact and so they screw on a large mechanical broadhead. That’s already going to soak up a lot of KE. Problem is KE stops when you make contact with the animal. That is when momentum makes a difference in my opinion, having the mass to keep that broadhead moving through that animal after impact. Like I said I do respect you and I have been thankful for all your helpful videos about how to hunt these beautiful animals we love! THP has footage of there light fast set ups not getting pass through shots on deer and they have footage after switching to heavy arrows to. Aaron shot a big whitetail last year through the front shoulder, went the length of his body, popped out in front of rear ham and kept going for another 15-20 yards where they found it in the weeds....pretty sick set up if you ask me!

@davidflippo4860

4 жыл бұрын

I too have watched their videos and saw the side by side comparisons. Also, watch the ranch fairies videos and he does actual autopsy’s on feral hogs etc...showing the penetration through tough tissue and heavy bone. Also checked out Dr Ashby’s reports on arrow penetration with different types of bows. His research and over 20 years of testing on all types of game animals, including African, that 650 grains is the threshold needed to break heavy bone on a whitetail deer.

@williamlasure6301

4 жыл бұрын

Must not have been straight on shoulder hit!! They still usually die weeks later cause infection.

@tyepsu

4 жыл бұрын

He is completely wrong on this issue. Science doesn't lie.

@williamlasure6301

4 жыл бұрын

@@tyepsu it will go through a shoulder blade but not the knuckle behind the blade. Don't care what weight arrow anyone shoots. Usually I hit them where I'm supposed to but that time I either flinched or hit branch.

@a.b.k1983

4 жыл бұрын

william lasure a single bevel, high FOC set up properly tuned will. Last year on a buck at 23 yards I punched both shoulder blades and still achieved a pass through. My 265 grain tough head did exactly what it was supposed to do.

My arrows don't care what's pushing them a 2010 PSE I got off Craigslist for a $100. I love your channel but cut on contact broadhead that are super sharp is the way to go. The gel penetration tests are a terrible comparison in my opinion.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Love it...for sure Brendon! Also, gel, wood plank, meat, meat and bone, metal...all show the same penetration results. What's cool is the modern bows are incredibly more quiet, less vibration, easier to aim and hold...and much, much faster while doing all of that. I had a 1988 PSE Fire Flight that I could literally shoot today's bows (most of them) 30#s lighter to get the same speed, same KE out of the same arrow. So much has changed. But man as I've been bowhunting for 35 years now, I love that I can go into the woods with a much, much lighter draw to achieve the same KE and keep from wrecking my shoulders and back. I hope to shoot a vertical bow until I die ☺️ Will shoot a crossbow to hunt if I have too...but I love my vertical bows and the modern efficiency is incredible!

I agree with a lot of what you said about chasing perfection, as im guilty of it. But, you're flat out wrong on a few things. For starters, you're right, KE is miniscule difference between 600 and 400gr. But, KE is irrelevant. Compare momentum numbers. "You aint getting through that bone." Yes, a 650 gr arrow that is built structurally well, has good flight, and a good head will ABSOLUTELY go thru it. When you did your 35yd shot eith big drop, did you re tune the bow? Because of course you'll see more drop, but it shouldn't be that large. And youre right, ballistic gels show the light penetrates just as well. However, how much of that is due to the medium being used? We also definitely agree that aiming for the shoulder is freaking ridiculous. Look forward to talking.

@joa-squidfukker1372

4 жыл бұрын

Dont forget that ballistics gel means absolutely nothing when it comes to slower projectiles.

100% agree with you, confidence at short range is huge. Can't stress that enough. Took your advice and got a hinge release this year. Really glad I did! It has taught me things I didn't know I still needed to learn. I've been into archery my whole life but stopped progressing 20 years ago when I was broke and couldn't upgrade. I've even been certified as an instructor. Not that it makes me a top notch shooter but I learned a lot from teaching beginners. Got back into it when I had more opportunity to hunt with a bow and have finally upgraded to new technology that can reach that 70, 80 and beyond. The sport is new again to me!

Great video Jeff...another example to practice long range. One time I liver shot a buck and he went and laid down at 52 yards. Well I had a clear lane and drilled him in the heart. He didn’t even get up. So if a follow up shot is needed it helps tremendously

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you and amen...what a great reason! That could really help you keep an animal from suffering...very good example and I appreciate it.

Glad to see folks are finally getting past the fast light arrow craze and going back to actual physics. Gel and targets mean absolutely nothing when it comes to arrow penetration and lethality. Dr Ashby studies prove it.

@garyjones5093

4 жыл бұрын

Manly Avinger . And those tests were extensive! And they were real world.

@joa-squidfukker1372

4 жыл бұрын

@@garyjones5093 exactly. Ballistic Gel tests and seeing how far an arrow goes in a target means absolutely nothing. The best test is actual flesh and bone and tissue and veins etc..

@garyjones5093

4 жыл бұрын

Manly Avinger . Some may try, but it’s pretty hard to argue with tests done for twenty-five years, and hundreds, and hundreds of animals. Some do try though. And as we know, with the right arrow and broad heads, deer bones “can” be broken. Some quite easily. Again proven by years of tests by Ashby and a few others.

@repentant

3 жыл бұрын

Absolute non sense

@micahdunleavy9227

2 жыл бұрын

@@garyjones5093 I get what he’s saying though, newer archers especially those who don’t know their trajectories perfectly are better off shooting a arrow with a flat trajectory then getting the distance wrong and wounding animals.. if you’re a pro that’s one thing but ppl should shoot the arrow they have the greatest chance of hitting exactly where they wish as opposed catapulting 600+ grains into no man’s land..

Jeff. You talk about kinetic energy Jeff, but what about the “momentum “ stored in that heavy arrow. If really surprises me that after impact, with the extra energy stored in the heavy arrow, you feel penetration is the same. Just curious. A heavier arrow will store more of its energy for down range. Yes, I agree trajectory will suffer some at longer ranges. It’s a give and take, but I feel penetration has to be better. Just my experience.

@myronlaidler8034

4 жыл бұрын

Momentum =a product of speed,less speed less momentum .A trade off in small proportions.Lighter arrow more speed,heavy arrow less speed .Millions of big game animals have been killed with "speed burner" recurves and long bows shooting 350 gr. arrows at a blazing 190 fps and killed REALLY DEAD!!!

@garyjones5093

4 жыл бұрын

Myron Laidler . It’s proven a heavier arrow retains more energy. That was my point. And it also quiets the bow. I’m not saying Jeff is wrong if the hit is perfect, but deer move. I’ve hunted them for fifty years, as I’m sure you have, but you can’t always predict their movements every time. You obviously try to shoot ethical shoots, at deer that are calm. Deer aren’t calm every time. Just my observations.

@myronlaidler8034

4 жыл бұрын

@@garyjones5093 All true Gary,especially about deer demeanor,shot angle etc. I think of momentum this way ,a baseball thrown by Justin Verlander at 96 mph and you or i rolling a bowling ball at 15 mph can have the same momentum!

@garyjones5093

4 жыл бұрын

Myron Laidler . Good comparison. Question:Which one do you want to get hit with? I’ll take my chances with the baseball.

@fixtritephil7712

4 жыл бұрын

@@garyjones5093 LOL Gary .Neither,Verlander might BEAN me!!

All of the High Momentum guys I know have greatly reduced lost/wounded animals. NONE of them aim for the shoulder on purpose(I'm sure theres an idiot or two in any category though). They have passed through shoulder on accident several times because those builds are built AND TUNED for when things do not go as planned. They also almost always achieve complete pass troughs instead of only getting 3 or 6" of penetration and no blood trails. Many separate side comparisons have been done to prove the penetration improvements and every single person I have taught has noticed a considerable improvement in multiple areas to include, tuning, accuracy, arrow flight, penetration, and recovered animals. We also have the same goals as you have stated with reduced wounded animal and increased recovery rates. It does require more knowledge and education than has been demonstrated in this video however. Love your channel and the habitat knowledge but I've personally seen different repeatable results in personal experiences. My personal whitetail setup is 530grains traveling at 302fps out of the bow and is a great medium that I get to inspect after shooting before tracking an animal (fixed 2 blade heads help greatly with this). Also, heavy arrows lose less velocity than lighter ones as they travel. You can verify this by using a chronograph at various ranges. Even 80-100 yds if you can do it without breaking your chrono. Proper setup and tuning is vital though and requires different spined shafts and separately tuned (correctly) for each setup.

Man its tough to hear your opinion on arrow weights. As a bowhunter one of my top priorities is to be ethical and take ethical shots. What your saying in terms of overall arrow weight is very different than some others in the hunting industry. How did you determine that 400gr. is the most "ballanced" weight? Please know that i ask out of respect and a desire to better understand the sport , and not to question or disagree with your ideology.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Great, balanced weight based on highly exprienced professional hunters and archers across the whitetail landscape. Based mechanically on the balance of speed vs weight. Based on nearly 100 pass thrus of my own kills...most below 400 grains. Now a fad begins if heavy arrows that do no produce greater penetration that will increase whitetail losses due to trajectory losses by hunters who don't understand the difference between a 5" drop at 33 yards per 2.5 yards and a baby arrow...or 2" with a more balanced arrow. Also hunters thinking that they can shoot thru bone now... undoubtedly some who will even aim for the shoulder now. You have to weigh the drop in trajectory vs total arrow weight. Absolutely no different than a 12 guage slug vs a .270. while a .270 will kill a deer at any distance out to 400 yards+, a 12 guage slug is good out to 200 yards because of trajectory loss. Either one is overkill on deer. Just like someone shooting a 650 grain arrow on a 3D course out to 40 yards...there range estimation would have to be otherworldly to compete. Taking that same trajectory into the woods when no animal ever seems to present the "perfect" shot sure doesn't seem like a good idea. It takes a highly, highly capable weapon that is overkill on deer thru power and trajectory, into a weapon that most shouldn't hunt with more than 20-25 yards because the window of error for range guestimation is magnified considerably. Not to mention bowhunters are being fooled into thinking they will crack thru hard bone. If you want to talk about ethical hunting...you may want to consider staying away from ultra heavy arrows 👍

@JayN4GO

4 жыл бұрын

Whitetail Habitat Solutions I’ll respectively disagree. Who are highly professional hunters? I’d like to hear the list so I can laugh. Shooting heavier arrows with elevated FOC has proven itself long before target archers pushed into the lame stream hunting industry. Chances of you hitting a deer into bone or through bone are very good. Yeah it slows down the arrow coming off the rest but like you said “35 to 40 yards” is max for most of us. I’d rather have 550 grains with 14% foc than 300 and 7%. But I guess we all can’t agree on everything right.

@brace1007

4 жыл бұрын

Mass with velocity will out do penetration on animals every day as proven through 30 plus years of days points and thousands of pages of reports of arrow lethality. Your statements of upping arrow weight as "ridiculous" and using a medium of gel that is designed to stop by friction is not a good way to measure penetration. This is physics, opinion does not change physics. Please look into the Ashby Bowhunting Foundation and critically think about the content you are putting out based on your opinion rather than actual in the field performance. I'll stay with the results of my slow ass E35 and a 600gn arrow that I practice with and know the limits of. Best of luck to ya.

@slockemoutdoors2323

4 жыл бұрын

I love how it's a fad. Then he comes in with I shoot deer at 400+ with a 270. Imo a 270 is overkill for a 300# whitetail. Why not use a 243 or a 6mm, a faster bullet has less drop compensation right? And it's more "balanced" and practically the same ke right?

@michaelp2259

3 жыл бұрын

@@slockemoutdoors2323 no. If you reload. You can push a 140-150 grain bullet out of a 270 Faster than what a 243 with a 100 grain bullet is going. And the 270 will have a god bit more energy. I've seen deer take 300 win mag double lunged and run 60-100 yards. Also seen a 300 wsm double lunged hole was close to size of a softball and deer ran around 175 yards. They're tough critters for sure. As far as arrows I personally like mine around 550 grains where I can shoot fixed heads or mechanicals and they both blow through deer like a hot knife through butter. Also still getting 273 fps with my mathews. I do have a 30 1/4" dl though so that helps. You don't need 700 grain arrow to shoot a white tail. Just so your arrow can stick in the ground 5 inches deeper once it goes through the deer.

So 27” 65 lbs shooting 419 grains out of a vertix and don’t get pass throughs every time it actually cost me a deer last year when I hit just a few inches to the right of where I was aiming and got 3” of penetration. I switched to 586.4 grains and literally shot one quartering away and broke backside and blew clean through him. Lighter arrows are for people who don’t make mistakes which is nobody in my experience. With so much influence that you have to tell people light is fine is in my opinion irresponsible at best. Way to many actual tests on animals out there these days to deny the positives.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

I've had dozens of pass thru whitetails shot...close to 100...and nearly all were 400 grains or less with roughly 15 different broadheads. 3" of penetration had nothing to do with your arrow weight...just a convenient excuse. Likely broadheads and angle or hitting bone that would have never been broken by your excessively overweight arrows either. Honestly there are other reasons that won't be overcome by a heavier arrows. I feel for you not recovering your deer, but your arrow weight had nothing to do with your loss of the deer. Once you will understand that you will become a better bowhunter...

@KillenNReelinoutdoors

4 жыл бұрын

Whitetail Habitat Solutions agree to disagree for sure my friend and the arrow weight is the only thing I could attribute it to. Same rage hypodermic broadheads I’ve used since they came out maybe that’s the issue? I will however continue to drink the kool aid, I have far more confidence now and I am getting better penetration. At my draw length anything past 30 yards I need to know the exact yardage either way so no sweat off my back. I would just assume there is no harm in a guy going heavier vs lighter.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

For sure...just a really, really bad trend in bowhunting right now I will combat with every resource. BTW...that rage was your problem...not the arrow 😉 I used expandable heads exclusively from 95-2010. Down to less than 300 grains with 57 grain heads. Large, expandable heads are responsible heads are responsible for a lot of lost game now days. A heavy arrow doesn't help in the same situation, but it does make your yardage guestimation highly critical...turning a 5 yard miss at 35 yards a 10" miss instead of a 4" miss. Agree to disagree...no worries 👍 Just something I will fight hard against this season and beyond if needed.

@KillenNReelinoutdoors

4 жыл бұрын

Whitetail Habitat Solutions good deal man I will fight for the other side lol a miss is a miss no matter how fast. I do agree however the mechanicals are absolutely the problem. To be honest I don’t know where that line is where a fixed blade and arrow weight for white tails meets a happy medium. I’ve been shooting some iron will heads and magnus heads to “sure up” my system this year. I’m absolutely done with mechanical heads tho. I do appreciate your feedback tho. One last question given your draw length and mine are similar. On quartering away shots do you have issues with heavy bone? When I lost that deer it hurt deep I just do not want that to happen again. I hunt 100% public and good deer are not easy to find in my area of WV. I just went all out and literally my arrow has always been on the other side of the deer when I shoot them now lol. Either way god bless and good luck this season buddy.

@myronlaidler8034

4 жыл бұрын

@@KillenNReelinoutdoors As bow hunters we only strive for "White Bellys" not white tails.LOL

Jeff! Now you done it with the heavy arrow talk... I think reasonable setups with design spec FOCs is ideal for these modern compound bow. Heavier arrows help to quiet the bows but are less forgiving, lighter arrows are more subject to wind drift. I look at it like fishing rods, you wouldn't use a deep sea rod for bass, and vice versa. Great Content! Watch out for the ranch fairies, Deet works well.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Lol...Deet ☺️ around 400 grains is the perfect balance 👍

@benniewhite6626

4 жыл бұрын

Was about to say something about the ranch fairy but 525 works great with 28 inch draw and 65 lbs draw

An enormous amount of evidence that shows heavy/high FOC arrows, with a strong and sharp fixed blade, will penetrating through some very heavy bone. KE is a small part of the equation with momentum, arrow flight, FOC and a sharp head being on top for penetration on animals. Gel is great, steel drums are cool, but it's a test media, and the real evidence is animal media. The elevation concerns are valid. You will have more drop, so know your distance and know your limits, that seems pretty responsible. I wouldn't go as far to say that anything is wrong with a 600+ grain arrow, but I find my "balance" at 525 gr with 282 fps. and it works for me. To each their own! Thanks for all the help over the years. :)

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Dom what a great comment! That's likely a perfect balance! No way to know if course but I would guess you have a decent draw length and are shooting at least in the upper 60s to 70 for draw weight? There is balance at 50#s and a moderate draw length...same with 60, 70 and 80# draw weights with modern bows. Your setup sounds very balanced. But... *1. There are hunters out there shooting 220fps with 650 grain arrows. Literally if they are off their yardage by 2-3 yards they wound the deer or miss. One even bragged about his 220fps on this channel. *I have had comments on this channel that a heavy arrow means you don't have to wait to track the deer because it will die so quickly. *Other comments that it is ethical to purposely shoot at a shoulder....and that they will. Those are the problems that I see...and am very worried about. Of course penetration is better with heavy arrows and sharp broadheads...but we are all over-bowed at this point for whitetails anyways whether with your setup or mine. My bow today at 60#s has more KE with the same arrow than my bow at 85#s did in the late 80s. Ironically...folks thought I was over-bowed then! There are some very bad trends being created by the super heavy arrows....and I will hit those trends very hard in coming videos. Hunters are coming into archery pro shops often wanting super heavy arrows that will "break thru the shoulder". The hunters have no clue that a 1-3 yard yardage estimation error will lead to a wounded deer or miss depending on the distance...and that's with a PERFECT shot. Your setup is perfectly balanced...KE and speed and you don't sound like the type that would purposely shoot at a shoulder. All good and I appreciate your comment a lot.

@dominicdevito

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 you are correct about my set up, 70# 29.5" draw. I honestly believe it's a double edged sword. Pushing people to believe that an extremely heavy arrow will answer all your problems, make you a better archer, etc. Is just as much of a problem as pushing the notion that a fast, light arrow, large cut mechanical broadheads will also make you more lethal. I can't say with confidence that one is worse advice than the other, but both have their pros and cons. However, I can I unfortunately say that my experience with light,fast, and mechanicals has been sub par. I've still had unalert deer completely duck my arrow at 40 yards, and I have had a buck partially duck my arrow at 15 yards, in which case it ended up hitting his scapula and.. well you know the rest of that story 😢. I've made good shots and the arrow deflect off of a rib, redirect, and come out the liver/stomach 🤢🤮. With that being said, I have grown to understand that, regardless of speed, deer can and will duck. My maximum range on animals has shrunk to 35 yards, no exceptions. My arrow and broadheads setup has moved toward the heavy side. And although elevation is more of a concern, I don't feel as though it's a hindrance for my setup. In all I feel as though both ends of the spectrum can work, but one isn't necessarily better or worse. As concerning as people aiming for the shoulder is, it's equally as concerning that people are shooting at animals beyond ranges in which they should be, or not ranging the animal thinking their 330 fps arrow is a laser beam and that gravity doesn't exist. More so than arrow weight, I think the bigger importance is pushing truly ethical hunting practices. Thanks for responding and thank you again for all that you do for the hunting community! Dom

@jhuntley575

4 жыл бұрын

Higher foc actually doesnt perform better in penetration... I'm still like to have a good foc for other reasons. I was hardcore all about it now not so much after a shooting buddy did a very comprehensive foc analysis and posted on youtube. Then went through all the comments and addressed those concerns with another test. Then did it again and again. It was pretty incredible work. Josh from Jersey foc test check it out

I dig the practice advice, not the projectile advise. Heavy arrows are the way to go, especially with a cut on contact broadhead.

One thing i will say about the heavy arrow thing. I just went through that process with my bow. My old setup was 430 grains. My new setup is 500 grains. With my old setup i was getting 8 inch wide tears with a bareshaft at 7 yds. New setup shoots bullet hole bareshafts. For once in my life my fixed blades fly like my field tips. I always used mechanicals because of erratic fixed blade flight. Now i believe i will actually be more ethical by shooting fixed blades. I always felt like i took the easy way out with mechanicals. Ive killed plenty of deer/pigs and had good blood trails but i was always scared of the shoulder so if i missed a little back i was in liver. Im definitely not gunna be one of the guys you are talking about who purposely shoots the shoulder but i will feel better tucking it in a little closer to the heart. Granted my 500 grain setup probably isnt on the crazy heavy side you are talking about like 650-700.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

At least there is some balance there! 500 grains isn't bad at all. Still 20fps slower than 400 grains tho. Bare shaft tuning is another highly overrated tactic....something I haven't done ever, in 36 years ☺️ Always keep in mind that arrow will have zero more ability to break a shoulder...that's part of it. If it helps tune a bow that's one thing but even then I bet I could tune your bow at 350 grains. But I am hoping folks never thing they have more of an ability to kill an animal with heavier arrows...bone or not. I have a 390 grain vs 600 grain arrow comparison coming out in the next week. Just absolutely crazy the loss of trajectory and ability to kill a deer at even moderate ranges because of arrow drop. More than double per inch. Those extreme heavy arrows are actually reducing the ability of the bow and hunter...effectively taking us back to the 80s in terms of capability. Again in the end the heavy arrows do not assist anyone kill a whitetail more effectively with today's modern bows.

@blzn04

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 so i went to my bow shop and worked with them on 3 separate occasions over 2 weeks to work on making sure my bow was tuned correctly. There wasnt anything we had left to try on the bow tuning part. Thats why i turned to the arrow. I went into it knowing i didnt want a crazy heavy arrow though. For me the bareshaft tuning was nice because i was able to see the problems better than a fletched tear. But yea i get all the viewpoints on either side. Im just happy my fixed blades fly way better now. The second group of 2 arrows at 20 yards i shot with the new setup and i actually slid the field point straight in behind the broadhead and nicked the back of the fixed blade in the target. That was good enough for me. Another thing i must say is that i live in Houston and hunt mostly central/eastern texas. I shoot more pigs than deer and my shots rarely even have the capability of being more than 25 yards. I tested my new and old setup through the chrono and lost 17fps. Ive always been more of a quiet bow guy versus a speed bow guy and a heavier arrow can make the bow even quieter by absorbing more of the energy from the bow. But yea im not shooting the crazy 650-700 grain setups on the other end of the spectrum. I've been bow hunting for only 10 years but this is the first year i ever even gave ANY thought to my arrows. Never knew anything aboit spine or anything. Just took whatever the bow shop slapped on the counter. As with most things in my archery "career" im sure i will continue to learn new things and keep tweaking until i find whats perfect for me.

@aaronward3882

4 жыл бұрын

Your arrow spine was to stiff. Adding point weight makes the shaft flex a little bit more making it fly better

@blzn04

4 жыл бұрын

@@aaronward3882 no, i went to a stiffer arrow with the new setup. The old setup was underspined so it flexed way more giving me 8" horizontal tears

@blzn04

4 жыл бұрын

@@aaronward3882 old setup was a 340 spine with 100 grains up front. New setup is 300 spine with 50 grain insert and 100 grain field tip. That was my sweet spot. Got perfect bullet holes at 7 yds bareshaft

Great video tips. During my military years, I had service connected injuries which required multiple surgeries. Due to shoulder problems, I use a Raven crossbow. It is very accurate and easy to shoot. You are right about a lot of practice. Have a blessed day!

Excellent video and points about heavier arrows, and I couldn't agree more. Thanks for eloquently stating that.

Looking good I love getting out shooting my bow good luck this season thanks for all the great whitetail tips

I would love to spend a day learning from you and talking whitetails

You should check out the dead on range finder. It's a simple sticky strip that sticks to the inside of your sight on the opposite side as your pins. I love it.

@jonathangerwitz1429

4 жыл бұрын

bowhunting.net/2012/08/dead-on-rangefinder-start-to-finish/

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately I could never use something like that. The measurement from an animals back to belly is so incredibly inconsistent from quartering away animals, quartering too, steep angle shots to level shots to uphill. I get the math and it would work if you are always shooting at the perfect broadside shot on a specific animal size...but these deer present anything but a static measurement from belly to back. Cool system tho!

Yes sir. Every archer should watch this video. Thank you for the good content.

Agree 100%! Then leave one arrow loaded after a few shots….then run to the target pull arrows then run back…draw and shoot. For those of us who have never shot a big deer with a bow it helps. Great job!

Hey Jeff thanks for the great advice. I was once told by a friend that shoots professionally that it is better to shoot six arrows a day seven days a week then to shoot for an hour three times a week. The reason behind his logic was when you are sitting in your Treestand you were not warmed up. So it’s better to practice shooting the first couple arrows because that would simulates more of what it’s like in the Hunting woods. What’s your thoughts on his suggestion

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Marshall...I don't agree with that advice at all. Reps are critical...of course if someone is in shape. Shooting 6 arrows will never get you into shape...maybe if shot every day all year? As a previous Mathews Factory Pro...I would not agree in any way. Think of it this way. Whether in practice or on the stand, there is always a first shot arrow. However, the reps are what make you a stronger, more confident bowhunter when the moment of truth arrives. No different than a MLB batter taking swings, a professional golfer taking chips (tiger woods practice routines are legendary), or a QB throwing the ball. If people perform at a high level, reps are key and archery is no exception. For example I am still 2 months away from being near my peak pro level...roughly a year of consistency of I want to be at my actual peak. Will bring the journey on the channel. But if I only shot 6 arrows 7 days per week I wouldn't be where I am at right now shooting heavy for a solid month. Got to build those muscle and mind reps...

@marshalllaw6541

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jeff that makes perfect sense. I could never dream of shooting professionally but I definitely need to build confidence in my skills

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Lots of shooting Marshall without overdoing it...balance is so important!

@marshalllaw6541

4 жыл бұрын

Been shooting a lot today I was confident to go as far as 60 yards ask. My patterns a little larger than a paper plate but getting tighter. Thanks for the advice. PS this does help your confidence

Hi Jeff. What studies are you referring to that show no difference in penetration between 400 and 650gr arrows? I’m honestly curious. Not trying to pick any fights haha.

Great video, I shoot in my yard , most i get.is 25 yards. I shoot long distance when I can. What I did find put a couple years ago shooting consistently at 20 yards, I picked up s bad habit. Did not even realize it till I went out shooting long distance then it became visible in my grouping. Was able to correct it. But shooting at 20 all the time could hurt your form if you don't stretch it out every now and then

100% agree the further away you practice, makes the closer shots alot easier. Makes me laugh I've used all sorts of releases but always wind up using my old Carter Lockjaw 2000! Awesome video!!!

I went from a 385 grain arrow set up to a 520 grain set up and I have to agree with you for the most part. My Revolt is slightly quieter with the heavier arrows but nothing that I think would make a difference. The heavier arrows are not only less forgiving with the trajectory but they also force you to work on the fundamentals more. Luckily I still have my lighter arrows and I hunt in the New Hampshire woods where you're lucky if you can ever push a 30 yard shot.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I don't feel it makes much if a difference 20-25 yards or less, but at 25-35 yards those heavy arrows drag down the capabilities of hunter and equipment.

@emknight84

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 I whole heatedly agree. Funny little experiment happened with my friend that is new to archery though. He tried shooting the heavier arrows and was all over the place. My theory is that because those arrows are on the string longer and thus subject to more of the shooters mistakes in form they can really highlight a shooters problems. I can shoot the heavier arrows out to 70 yards no problem at the range but the drop between them and the lighter shafts is nearly a foot.

One more to disagree with your thoughts on heavy arrows. It definitely shortens your effective range, but the penetration is absolutely better. KZread is full of videos of deer running away with 18 inches of light arrow hanging out of them.

Great video, thanks. I preach shooting longer distance for practice to anyone that will listen. 100% agree once you practice longer distances, the "shorter" real world hunting distances, even under stress are more confidently made. As far as arrow weight, that's personal. I know what I like and what works for me, I certainly will not poopoo on anyones opinion.

Great advise Jeff, still remember first time you shot Field and Hunter.You had a new Mathews 3-D vapor not really set up you shot a 274 out of possible 280,I was impressed! Any time you can shoot a good score on a windy day is an achievement.Like that new VXR!!!

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Tex...I miss those days a LOT! Hoping to create some new memories soon, I have been away from it for far too long. Life got in the way I guess. The VXR is superb! I loved that Vapor btw! Unforgiving but extremely accurate. Those days were so long ago that when I shot a good score I didn't realize that it was a good score 🙂

@myronlaidler8034

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Gray on top and no flat belly kid here either!!

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Ha, so true of both of us Tex! At least we are still active and plugging away. This shooting makes me feel like that kid at OCSC back in the 80s...let alone all of the tournament and league stuff in the 90s. You know I used to puke before quite a few of my major shoots!? I even miss that!

@myronlaidler8034

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Laura Dunlap would massage my back between ends at tournaments,calmed the Butterflys!!

@fixtritephil7712

4 жыл бұрын

@@russelllangworthy8855 A few months back you said it was two.Knowlingly poaching?

If you want to talk arrows especially with fixed blade broadheads you need to know about FOC and spine. If your broadhead and field point are not impacting at the same point with a reasonably tuned bow, you need to look at your arrow spine and more than likely increase your FOC. I went from a standard 13 grain insert to 140 grains up front plus a 100 grain head for a total of 240 grains up front increasing my overall arrow weight to 500 grains. Field points, mechanical, hybrids and traditional fixed blades all impact the same point now. Plus the arrows penetrate deeper now. I shoot out to 50 yards(in my yard) and I'm only drawing 54 lbs because I'm a realist and know full well after 3 hours in 20 degree weather standing 17 feet in the air 60+ is too much. I harvest whitetails out to 40 yards with no problem from my set up.

Figured I would take a peak down here to see if everyone felt the same as me after watching this video. Dr. Ashby and ranch fairy know what they’re talking about and I’ve seen the difference myself. Glad we’re all on the same page about this video. Cheers lads

Too each their own on this one, still enjoy the channel.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Appreciate it! I will always battle fads and fiction...hope you can appreciate that!

@SellsZac

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Absolutely. I shoot a Vertix at 30"/68lbs with a 500grain setup. So I'm not drinking the 750gr koolaid, but I do think fixed blade heads with a little more weight improve performance against ribs/if you glance off the edge of a shoulder. Like all things in life, balance is normally best.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a good setup you have there...would be way to heavy at 62#s, 27" draw for me ☺️ I looking at more 600-650 grains. God forbid if hunters are at 750 grains! Hope they under their limitations.

@3:45 THANK YOU! That shoulder bone and especially the knobs are so hard you are not getting through them anyway. Be patient and take a good shot and any arrow and broadhead on the market will kill.

You nailed it, shooting long range is critical!! So I too have a Carter release. I have the Chocolate Addiction. Really like it, but I’m having issues with finding a consistent anchor point for my knuckles/cheek. Any suggestions?? Thanks and as always, great information!!

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Todd! My first 2 knuckles always get planted on the corner of my jawbone. The string is always on the tip (not side) of my nose and then I use the peep site. "3 point anchor system" I always refer to it as. Kind of can't have one without the others so it makes sure that your position on your jaw has to fall in line. I hope that helps?

My dad and grand dad always said you want the broadhead to pull the arrow thru the deer .... your still my favorite but can't agree with light arrows. thanks for putting in the time man keep it up!

I shoot a 30 in arrow. I had to spine up this year since my arrow flight would never get right. After vanes and a lighted nock, I have 50 grains on the back end. I'll have 50 grains of brass attached to my 100 grain broadhead. All that puts me close to 480 grains. I couldn't imagine 600. I've always had a 50 yard pin and only want a 45 yard shot max. That's gonna be hard to do any heavier than I got goin on now. I may take the brass inserts out after playing around with it. I'd rather use a smaller cut broadhead if I was worried about penetration that much.

Great video and info mate nice shooting, It’s great fun shooting long distance it makes shooting shorter distance easier ,

Nice video Jeff! Would love for you to talk about buck fever and how can practice with 3D target can help you find your aiming spot on a live animal.

It doesn't take any pressure at all to poke a fillet knife through a deer:) 385-425 is plenty out of any bow 35 to 70 pounds. If you have a problem you are a sloppy shot or need to ditch the big expandable. I know I will be shooting a regular bow for many more years, as I've seen a Steelforce out of a short draw bow, 35 pounds, and 365 grain arrow not even slow down after going through several mature deer.....not all at once though:)

Good morning Jeff. I appreciate your hard work and willingness to teach. Any thoughts on how accuracy is impacted by using less expensive bow? I'm blessed beyond measure, but financially I have to be frugal.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Justin! Man I can fully appreciate your comment! Depending on the bow you sure can find an accurate one. The best bows are super quiet, balanced, more efficient and allow you to find a high degree of speed. All combined. I love the Mission lineup for that! Similar geometry and engineering as the Mathews lineup. Also used bows are a great option! I've seen some 1/2 price bows go with high end accessories for 1/2 of what the went for new just 3-4 years earlier. Regardless tho, accuracy can be found in many of today's modern bows!

@myronlaidler8034

4 жыл бұрын

Good arrows and accessories are more important than the bow.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

One if the things about the more modern bows is their ability to get more stores energy into the arrow. Of course quieter, less vibration, easier to aim, etc...BUT, a huge factor is that means more speed. When you can pull 10-15#s less draw weight and equal the same KE with the same arrow than an older bow...that is a huge advantage. Especially when easier to hold/aim. Bottom line tho...shooting bad arrows and using a poor site is like having bad tires and breaks on a decent truck ☺️

To be fair, technically no matter where you rest is you should shoot the same group, at least with normal points and this was found out by my coach in partnership with Dr. James Park. Fairly sure they worked on that together and if I'm wrong then it was just my coach who tested it with a Hooter Shooter.

My fancy bucket is a Roma Tomato cage set back at 30-60 every 10

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Nice 😁 I love it!! I think you have my Ace Hardware buck beat 👍

@BuckSchott-pu9ow

4 жыл бұрын

I cut pieces of 2" PVC. About 16" with a sharp angle on one end. Todd them in the ground and they stick.

Another great vid . What arrows are you shooting now and whats your whitetail arrow set up ???? Looks like RIP's

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Darrin! Victory TKOs at 392 total arrow weight with a 100 grain point. Love them! Even bought a 2nd dozen ☺️

@darrind8697

4 жыл бұрын

thanks . I'm looking at the RIP TKO's for next build , just researching their outserts or shok collar (whatever they call them lol) . cheers

Hey thanks for this vid really helpful info. I went to lacrosse archery yesterday and Anthony did a amazing job selling and setting up my new vxr31.5. You kinda helped sway me from a Hoyt to a Matthews guy they all are nice but so far I love the vxr it was ready to shoot when I got home about a hour after I decided to buy it. Thanks again

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Man that is great Jacob...good to hear that! Isn't Anthony and the rest of the crew great? Outstanding pro shop!! Bet you already live that now and what a great investment for your hunting this season ☺️ What a GREAT bow...

@jacn4218

4 жыл бұрын

Yes i love their crew and how open they are to the customers choices. Couldn’t ask for a better shop with this one 25 minutes from my house.

I love your videos! I like using them to as a counterweight to other opinions on KZread. I switched from lighter arrows to Easton Axis 5mm which bumped me up to 509 grains all in. I found lighter arrows broke a lot or took weird turns after hitting deer. After bumping up the weight and strength I get more consistent flight patterns and pass throughs. Can you please do a video on sights? I’m same age group as you and I’m finding it hard to use the same sight that worked for me in my early 40s.

What are your thoughts on 150 grain vs a 100 grain broadhead for a low LB bow (45lb) for white tails

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

Жыл бұрын

100 grains would be towards the heavy side for that poundage, but decent. 150 grains for that poundage would be absolutely too light and take away from the performance of your bow

I'll 100% agree with your theory of shooting at double your range in the woods. I rarely shoot at less than 50 yards while practicing, and I absolutely will not shoot at a deer over 40, and that's only given absolutely perfect conditions. My private range I can and do shoot out to 110 yards. Past that and my sight hits my vanes. However, RE the heavy arrow comments... Sorry, but physics says you're incorrect when it comes to arrow weight and it's effects on penetration. Yes the KE is the same, KE isn't the whole story and is honestly a poor measurement of penetration potential of any object. The bow only has a specific amount of energy it can impart on the arrow. So KE will be 'generally' the same out of a given bow regardless of arrow weight. However, a heavier object of the same cross section with the same KE will absolutely penetrate further in a given medium. With the vast majority of hunters using a range finder, known/unknown distance just isn't a problem.

Is there some type of broadhead or some other tip that will HOLD and be hard to pull out ? That is what I need. I fly remote control foam airplanes that sometimes land in a tree. I want an arrow with a tip that will pierce into the foam and hold so I can pull the plane loose from branches.

3:40 he say something about how he doesn't believe in a shoulder shot with a bow and I'm not in disagreement I won't personally do it without a single or double beveled broadhead only because that is exactly what there are designed to do. Split bone and get into the vitals. So they give you the ability to shoot at the entire vital-v instead of it being cut in half by a shoulder blade you have to avoid. But you don't need it if you are a good hunter and are discipline with your shots

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

Жыл бұрын

Even the best case scenario you should never aim for a shoulder no matter the type of equipment. Completely negligent...

What do you mean by a "balanced arrow"? There's plenty of drop with heavy arrows at longer distances, yes, but ya gotta get off the high speed and KE bandwagon and take a look at the rest of the picture. Talk about momentum and how a cut on contact head penetrates with that momentum. Justifying low weight speed arrows because you don't need to judge distances as well sounds like a Rage commercial backed by Chris Brackett. Shady and not telling of the whole story.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

There is only about a 3% increase in overall KE from a heavy 650 grain arrow vs a balanced 400 grain arrow. There is no effect on flight or tournament archers shooting out to 90 meters would all be using heavy arrows...but they are not. In fact many are using arrows far less than 400 grains. Same with 3D archers that recognize trajectory matters...in the deer woods and on the range. At 220 fps you wouldn't even be able to compete out to 40 yards on a 3D range because you would miss too many targets. You would literally have to shoot from the kids stake unless you have a rangefinder and even then 1 yard off at 40 yards and you lost almost 3" at impact. Also, folks do not realize that you still can't crack any more heavy bone with a heavier arrow. This trend will lure folks thinking that they can...they take poor shots and lose more deer. Just common sense stuff. With heavy arrows you have to know exactly how far and animal is at 25-30 yards+...there is no 3 yard cushion. The extra weight doesn't create significantly more penetration...doesn't help the arrow fly better...causes a significant loss in trajectory bringing you and your equipment back 30 years...and will cause bowhunters to think that they can shoot bone. 220fps and the lack of trajectory that it gives you is embarrassing for today's modder bows and severely limits what distance you can shoot in the field. 1 yard off at a 35 yard animal and you are 2" off your target (with a perfect shot). 3 yards off and you are wounding deer and missing deer. I hope that you realize that and as someone who has shot nearly 100 deer with a bow since 1985, shots in the woods are anything but perfect. You think you know the exact distance you are shooting an animal and you do not. You need to plug the lowest hole in the bucket in anything you do in life, but KE and bowhunting is not one of them. In particular 3% more. A solid case can be made that your heavy setup has the potential to be less ethical unless you keep your shots to 25 yards or less, because you are so unbalanced on the trajectory end. A great arrow setup still gives you trajectory and KE...not just focused soly on one or the other. That's why 250 grain arrows are not appropriate brother....but a case could be made that they are a better true hunting arrow than a 650 grain arrow. Considering all sides.

@bobalotb6760

4 жыл бұрын

Seems like kinetic energy really only matters to help in the deployment of mechanical blades.

When or how do you practice your sitting treestand shots? I know the arrows will strike high when shot from elevated stand. I've always shot from standing and bend at the waist to get arrows to hit correctly. It may show my age but I learned that from reading bowhunter magazine back in the day. Lol

My spyder seems to shoot smoother with a FMJ and a 125 grain head than a 100 grains with a victory arrow.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

For sure...probably quiets that bow down and cuts the vibration.

@isaacjestus

4 жыл бұрын

Whitetail Habitat Solutions how could you say that when in an earlier comment you said the bow will always feel the same, shoot the same; and sound the same?...

Isn't you argument with weight about fps. So if I can get 280 fps with any grain arrow that's plenty fast enough to be lethal and have tight pin gaps. So why not shoot 525 grains at that speed. I've had issues with fixed blade heads with arrows above 310 fps. I slow the arrow a little and they've flown better. Not really sure why but that's been my experience. So my question is what is the goal of fps to you? Or is speed better no matter the arrow weight? But when you talk about arrow drop that's for your lighter poundage and I'm certain that really affects it more than mine because of 30" draw and 72 lbs out of a speed bow. Just curious your response, I've really enjoy your channel. Keep it up👍

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

That sounds like an incredible setup! 525 grains at 280fps is the perfect balance...who cares about the KE, it's double overkill at that point anyways. 72#s is also something I personally wouldn't shoot. I've shot up to 94#s out of a hunting bow...but that was years ago. Like 30 years ago ☺️ Now I've been at 62#s for around 15 years at least. Allows me to pull dead straight back with no lift in the bow in sub zero weather. Your setup is very balanced! 72# bow, 280fps, 525 grain arrow. Likely a longer draw than 27"? ☺️ Your arrows on my bow would not be balanced. My arrows on your bow would not be balanced. Also something not talked about enough are the large, cut on impact broadheads causing deflection and poor wound channels...something that isn't solved by super heavy arrows.

@mattpaulsmeyer4507

4 жыл бұрын

I agree about the mechanicals, I shoot plenty of KE for years and have had issues with rage an others. First year for me shooting a fixed head. But I'm also going elk hunting in 2 weeks and wanted a more lethal setup. Thanks for the response

I also enjoy shooting as far as my sight allows for practice AND I shoot my well balanced arrow of approx. 550 grains at a whopping 220 FPS.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

That's great you practice at longer distances...but a 550 grain arrow at 220fps takes you, your potential as a bowhunter and your equipment back to the 80s... unfortunately you gained nothing by going to 550 grains either other than maybe quieting down a loud bow?

Do you use cable stops.... or limb stops..... I shoot and have tried both... do you think it's better to practice the follow through with the cable stops because it has a tiny bit of play to pull back into the wall and shoot with that tension?

Do you believe the Hodag Licking stick setup can be just as effective as a hanging vertical vine?

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure how anything could be? No scent added...natural...highly proven, incredibly fast process in every whitetail state.

Hey jeff, I just wanted to say I completely agree with you on the arrow subject. some people will see these new fads and be on them for a while until the next youtube celebrity comes along and they start doing whatever he is doing. If I were you I would just invite all the haters over to compare your wall vs theirs. good luck this season and keep the great content coming.

I agree with the lighter arrow view. Bill Winke of Midwest whitetail states the same thing about having a balanced arrow weight and Id say he hunts pretty big bucks for sure. Im not saying that a heavy arrow is bad but I shoot a 412 grain arrow and last year I had 2 pass throughs on my bucks without any issues. I also know that the margin of error with those heavier arrows is much greater when you start getting out to just 30 yards or so. Accuracy is the best way to kill a whitetail. If you are accurate you can kill one with a field tip.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

All so true! 412 grains I bet is perfect for you and still allows for some range of error in estimating distance for shots! That doesn't surprise me that Bill Winke feels the same way. When you out so much into the pursuit of just a handful of target animals that you work all year for, you just can't afford to limit yourself in the field. I also know he has shot some deer st some pretty far distances. When you get to 35 yards+ you literally have to know the distance within 2-3 yards with a 280-290fps bow. With a 220 grain heavy arrow you have to know the exact distance or else...

@allentodd5436

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Yes Winke said almost verbatim what you said. Im not gonna lie hes got the best hunting show to me even if it is in a dream state! Lol😂 I dont plan on shooting more than 40 yards in Georgia but to me its critical for that arrow to be put in the right place. I like those new Sevrs too because they pivot around bone. I killed three deer last year and they didnt make it 50 yards. Love the vids Jeff God bless!🙏👍

Any good guides on what arrows to select? First time bow hunting this year and have a 50lb draw weight so far with 27" draw length. Hoping to get to 55lb for hunting. Not very familiar with what specs to look for in arrows, just bought 6 from my local archery club but lost 2 into the woods already, ha.

You like those areo lite shirts from first lite? I just ordered one but haven’t had a chance to wear it. Just didn’t know if there REALLY that much cooler then just a decent thin t-shirt

You are correct that kinetic energy does not really change from a 400g arrow to a 600g arrow but what does change is momentum. Momentum is what cause the arrow to continue moving after impact and with a heavier arrow you have more momentum that’s just science. Heavy arrows will pass through easier and from personal experience it also breaks bone much easier due to its ability to keep moving after impact because of its higher momentum. So I will have to disagree with you on that part of the video. What I do agree with you on is practicing shooting. I shoot a 580 grain arrow and practice out to 80 yards 2x a week and that “drop” you talk about is not there because my bow is tuned for that arrow and I am sighted in to that speed. Obviously shooting a heavy arrow out of a bow that is sighted in for a light arrow will drop more. If you can get your bow tuned for your specific arrow setup then it does not matter on the weight of the arrow.

Hey Jeff, thank you for all your videos and advice. You have made me a more successful hunter and archer. I'm looking to get a new bow sight. What do you use for whitetail hunting?

I’ve always practiced at 60 yards, It seems to make those 20 and 30 yard shots easier

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Amen Shawn! Greatly builds the confidence!

Jeff. This is my first food plot. I planted imperial clover alongside a Egyptian wheat screen. The clover has been up 4 weeks but is growing very slowly. I was told to spread winter wheat over it. My PH level is 5. it has been limed and fertilized. Your thoughts?

Did you switch up your arrow set up? What did you switch to and why?

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Jack! I shot Carbon Express for 25 years...time for a change 😁 I knew the family that owned CE, now they are just owned by an outdoor group. Lots of close archery friends pointed towards Victory so I went with an arrow that is close to my Old Maxima reds and like them a LOT! Very consistent...bought another dozen already ☺️ I love the extreme variety they offer too! I shoot the TKOs...

@jackbuendgen389

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 very nice 🙂 I have shot the rip tko's.

Hey Jeff, I’m back for my annual deer information 😂. I’ve got a quick question on mock scrapes, I put my first one in last year on my small property of 5 acres and it’s on a shelf in a valley. I haven’t noticed many deer using it and I just wondered if there was a reason. Thanks!

It is going to be my girlfriends first year hunting. She is shooting 38# and shoots a Sik F4 broadhead. She probably won’t shoot over 30 yards. Do you think she’ll get a pass through?

Hey Jeff, sorry if you've answered this already. I noticed that you hunted with Maxima Reds last year. Do you practice with different arrows than you hunt with, or did you make the switch to a new arrow?

Thanks

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

You are very welcome Fred!

i love to shoot long range as well to help my shooting at 30 and 40 yards ot really does work one quick question though i juat got a vxr as well and was wonder wich way you fletched your arrows left or right offset i always check the natural rotation of my arroows off the string by marking a bare shaft and checking the rotation but my new vxr is always dead straight with 0 rotation off the string i was just wondering your opinion on that topic

I personally think using a lighter arrow with an over the counter broadhead, esp a mechanical is less ethical. Momentum is depleted so much when those blades open and without the FOC those thing deflect and the penetration is gone. Complete pass through is the goal in my opinion.

Glad to see Chris bee in the video

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Me too 😁

The first time you loose an elk because you’re arrow hit bone and didn’t go through the animal you’ll do some more research and find that a heavier arrow with a higher FOC is what people talk about it’s not just overall weight but with a higher FOC arrow they do tend to be a little heavier and they do penetrate more.

I thought this was a great video and very truthful I have shot heavy 600gr before and it’s just not the same as a 400-500 arrow just let the hate roll off that early bow season jacket. Keep up the hard work brother

Some of us shoot tougher animals than a white tail, your light arrow/mechanical setup for whitetail, In a stand, above a feeder, will work fine. Hell a field point will kill your high fence deer, but out west we hunt wild animals like elk. Heavy arrow/fixed broad is the only way to go. It’s a different game so I recommend not talking like you know it all because you shoot a “trophy” deer from a blind that has been essentially raised by the ranch owner.

I'm a new shooter just started in the spring. Under 40 I have good groups but past 40 it really does magnifie your forum. I can stay on the target but groups aren't there yet.

Light arrow balanced arrow heavy arrow….who cares! Imagine a world where a man shoots whatever weight he chooses and not mention anything about weights he doesn’t…. Anyways…love ur videos and knowledge.I’ve definitely learned from this channel.

The THP boys have been preaching heavier arrow setups for better penetration especially when hitting the shoulder a lot this off season. I've always shot a 400 spine arrow, 100gr heads with a 60lb draw and almost always get pass through with a well placed shot.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

They are great dudes! Just have to disagree with anyone pushing heavy arrows on this. I'm not sure I have killed 100 deer with a bow...maybe 90? But over 90% pass thru, mostly arrows less than 400 grains. Good shits and bad of course. It's one thing for an arrow to go thru the scapula...another to go thru heavy bone.

@amjorgy1

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 some times I have good "shits" when I'm bow hunting too....lol. not recommended but it happens!

Great Tips Jeff! Got me a little excited to break my Mathews out of its case.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

That's good to hear...enjoy and have a lot of fun!

We are getting ready to move on an 100 acre piece of land in southeast Missouri maybe you would want to come look at see what you dint think I would need to do because we want to be able to manage the deer hunting to the best of our oblitays I watch ever one of your videos and would be a real dream of mine for someone like u to help us manage our property

Have to agree with a lot of others here, love the channel but agree to disagree on arrow weights. Kinetic energy comparisons mean nothing. Lighter faster projectiles always have higher KE but result in less penetration.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Matt I can appreciate that. Actually lighter faster arrows have less KE. There are folks shooting 220fps too heavy arrows that will result in lost game because if such poor trajectory. I feel bad for folks. Also shooting at shoulders will result in lower receiver rates. So, so unethical to actually aim at a shoulder with any weight arrow. Agree to disagree for sure...

@davidgaston3246

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Aron Snyder takes game out to 40 yards with a recurve bow that shoots 180 fps and a 600+ grain arrow. He must be so unethical. Quit saying guys are purposely aiming at the shoulder. Thats like me saying guys that hunt with mechanicals are purposely aiming farther back off the shoulder (I know some guys that have done this) which is just as unethical. You're commenting like your speaking for the whole group of guys that hunt with a heavy set up. Most guys that hunt with a heavier arrow don't fling arrows at 70 or 80 yards like your buddy Chris Bee in the video. The trajectory of his arrow is much more significant at 70 and 80 yards than at 40 with a 500+ grain arrow. Which is that unethical?? To some maybe. Is it within his limitations? For sure. Do either of you hunt or have extensive experience and research with a heavy arrow hunting animals? Not nearly as much as several other channels I've seen. You say losing game increases because of poor trajectory. I say lose of penetration loses game because of a lighter arrow at distance. I've seen several videos of both set ups going wrong at distance. You can't say one is fault proof and the other is completely crap. Again, this exposes your unwillingly and stubbornness to see both sides. You're being completely biased here and in doing so you are misinforming people with a one sided answer that is not backed by extensive experience in hunting with a light arrow vs a heavy arrow. All you have is false analogys that back your biased claim. Like your wind drift example. Completely false. A projectile is less susceptible to wind drift if has more mass at any distance period. That has been proven time and time again.

Love to practice at long range. Lots of opinions on archery. I think there are a lot of archery nerds that over complicate archery. Obsessing over paper tuning is a waste of time in my opinion. People jump through hoops to shoot bullet holes when setting up a bow. Later After broad head tuning or walk back tuning I doubt that bow is still shooting bullet holes. Why does it matter what an arrow is doing three feet away from you? That is the purpose of vanes and fletching. If the arrow is flying like a dart at 10 yards it doesn’t matter what kind of tear you have a couple feet in front of your bow.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Amen Rich! I will compare it to the MLB nerds that guide money ball that likely never actually played the game outside of little league. Lots of bowhunting nerds!! So many. Like in hunting in general...typically the more gadgets, gear and scent elimination prep...the less of a successful hunter they typically are.

@myronlaidler8034

4 жыл бұрын

With fixed blades if it comes off the rest straight then its straight down range.Drop away rests and mech.broadheads not so much, but knowing bow is supertuned is a confidence builder. A bad shot then is on the shooter..

@richstafford1245

4 жыл бұрын

Myron Laidler To each his own. It’s all minutia in my opinion.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Definately a bad shot is always on the shooter for sure!

What about Arron on the hunting public he shot through a bucks shoulder and cracked the other leg .. idk I'm shooting 520 grain at ,70lbs and tell ya what I kill every deer I shoot and get a pas through never run more then 50 yards each is there own killed plenty with WalMart arrows but never got pass through and always ran ,

WHS that would be a sweet neck tattoo

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

2 жыл бұрын

😁 Will get right on it!

I’m so glad to finally see big names in the industry starting to say and promote a balanced arrow for your bow and setup. I’ve been saying for years that heavier isn’t always better there is a point of diminishing returns and each setup is going to have an ideal weight that balances speed and weight.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks...it truly is a shame. 200 grain arrows are unbalanced....600 grain arrows are unbalanced. Typically the extreme in any category is unbalanced...because it is the extreme ☺️ Somewhere around 400 grains depending on draw weight and draw length is a great balance. I am shooting 62#s for hunting and 392 grains of total arrow eight for a 27" draw. Perfect balance...

@robwalters9695

4 жыл бұрын

Whitetail Habitat Solutions I watched a IG Live with Levi lastnight and I think he said it the best, the only thing a super heavy arrow does is make up for lack of tuning skills lol made me laugh

What targets do you broadhead tune with? Seems like b.h. tear up everything

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

The cool thing is that at most my broadheads hit 1-2" off at the greatest, so once I verify that with a handful of shots at long and short range I am good to go. That being said...an old Block target I had for years. I use those more as a target for field points on hunting trips. I am using the Morrell High Roller targets this year and CAN'T wait!! Will use way more with field points this year when hunting away from home...but I have heard extremely good things about them!!

@myronlaidler8034

4 жыл бұрын

Same head or 2 in a sand hill, no rocks .It ruins the blades and point ,both replaceable on many fixed blade heads.Most archery club broad head leagues use cardboard silhouettes of big game animals...

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Loved those broadhead leagues!! Crazy how long a broadhead would last - well, a good broadhead ☺️

What components are you using for the Victory Vap TKO?

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

100 grain points. Just the normal stuff. 392 grain arrow weight with point.

@aaronward3882

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Victory half out in ss or aluminum or the Easton hit system up front?

I'll just say I don't agree with you on this one lol

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

I just feel bad for all of the lost deer this season due to using heaver arrows. Negligent. If you are referring to practice distance...it is critical to practice greater than you will hunt.

@JimBowSlice

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 whats the beef with the heavy arrows? I wouldnt aim for shoulder with antything less then a 12 ga. Lightfield.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

I use a .270 WSM to drop deer every year 😉 Kind of like your example with the 12 guage...using a 12 guage shooting 300 yards would be a bad idea...too much loss of trajectory.same with shooting a 35 yard whitetail with a 650 grain arrow. Too much loss in trajectory...but both kill the same. *Folks think they can bust thru bone with heavy arrows but they can't...so more losses *Hunters take a 35 yard shot and are off 8" because they thought it was 31 yards...instead of 3". More losses...or misses. Of course miss better than a loss. *No more stable in air. Well maybe 200 yards and heavy wind *If a bow needs a heavy arrow to quiet it down...dang that's a bad bow. *I firmly believe more losses due to heavy arrows...mostly trajectory and the overselling of breaking bone

@JimBowSlice

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 well i cant use a 270 in the thumb but i use a H&R ultra slug 12 and with the light fields ive spent the time on the bench and will shoot out to 150, i have been playing with the high velocity slugs too and when the air is right 250 yards is possible. learning how slugs work in different conditions most people would be shocked at what heavy dense air can do to a slug down range. Im super confident with a 533 grain arrow with a weight forward set up tuneing was difficult as i was tuned for a sub 400 grain arrow. But out of respect for the animal and my younger mistakes 30 yards is it for me on a live animal too much variable out side that buffer personally. Thanks for the insight again i appreciate the content its reality hunting vs vs what were used to on tv.

@marillahills91

4 жыл бұрын

Great video again!! I shoot the same exact set up and I agree with you 100%!!!

Gel tests are nonsense by themselves for arrow penetration on game animals. It’s about the penetration after making contact with a hard surface like bone. Put a simple sheet of plywood or a shoulder bone off a recent hunt in front of that gel. The heavier arrow penetrates better every time, plenty of tests done to prove this. The qualms with velocity and drop trajectory are valid reasons to not go heavy but penetration is a valid reason TO go heavy

That fly took your attention. Ha. Well, you might get something like that in a tree too.

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Morning Rick! I was thinking I shot pretty well thru it 😁 Nothing like letting a mosquito bite my eyelid when I used to shoot a lot in the UP of MI. Really helped concentration...or something like that, ha

@RickLarsonPermacultureDesigner

4 жыл бұрын

@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 :-)

@RickLarsonPermacultureDesigner

4 жыл бұрын

Where did you order those targets through?

You have a tremendous amount of knowledge and love listening to your videos. I will have to say your comments on heavier arrows do not stand up to science. A heavier arrow with higher (over 19% FOC) with a SHARP broadhead will scientifically be a much better ethical way of hunting. Check out Dr. Ed Ashby’s studies and that might help you see the science. KE is not relevant. What is is higher FOC with a very sharp broadhead. A Major League Baseball pitcher will throw a ball with tons of KE but it won’t penetrate flesh.

What is his total arrow hunting weight? Any body know

What size are those Morrell targets your using at 70 yrds

Do you use d loop for your wrist strap?

What sight is that ? I neeeeeeeed that

I guess we can agree to disagree on this one jeff.. not sure where you are getting your penetration stats from

Jeff I love your content and really appreciate all the hard work you do for us whitetail hunters but I do have to say I respectfully disagree with you regarding the arrow weight. Dr Ashby's research is without a doubt accurate and to say it doesn't have any effect on lethality would be a lie. Please look into the research for yourself and I advise you to head over to @ranchfairy.com for some good sound evidence.

What about if ya kinda have to have a heavy arrow? I shoot 32” draw 70# draw weight in my RX-4. I’m pretty sure they’re 280 spine but that’s the minimum spine I need due to my bow being so heavy and long. I wanna day they weigh like 518 grain and I’m getting 287 FPS. Should I go with a 350 spine or something maybe? - love your page and your content brother. Huge fan

@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Joe...thanks a lot...really appreciate it! That arrow setup seems golden...really good balance of speed, KE, momentum. Perfect for those long arms ☺️ Draw weight, etc 👍

@jrobe518

4 жыл бұрын

Awesome! I got worried they were too heavy after the video. Thanks man! I really appreciate the response