Crawford, Ranieri and Roper, the Holy Trinity of KZread linguistics

@stevenmontoya9950

11 ай бұрын

If they practiced law, it'd make a badass firm name 😂

@tomrogue13

11 ай бұрын

Don't forget Ranieri's mustache!

@bhami

11 ай бұрын

Hey, you can't forget Dr. Geoff Lindsey!

@redpillsatori3020

11 ай бұрын

Old Norse, Classical Latin, and Old English ftw!

@Cephlin

11 ай бұрын

Aye, Dr Geoff Lindsey would be the cherry on top

This was such a great time! Thanks again to you both.

The holy trinity all in one video. What a time to be alive

@samfann1768

11 ай бұрын

Ayy the miracle aligner, didn't expect to find you here, but I guess it makes sense.

@bacicinvatteneaca

11 ай бұрын

I was thinking of you and singing "salue, salue, salue, parue" just 5 minutes ago :D how are you doing? Did the unrest in your area end?

@MrVvulf

11 ай бұрын

For this particular video (accents/dialects) they would have benefitted from having Erik Singer as a fourth guest.

@prototropo

11 ай бұрын

We need the Anzacs, Irish, Canadians, Scottish and South Africans represented.

@violenceislife1987

11 ай бұрын

​@@prototropolet's get Spoon the Aristocratic Utensil in here.

Luke struggling with Simons accent makes me want to see him try and learn an Australian accent.

It's very interesting to hear both of the American fellows adamant that Simon is the most posh-sounding of the three of them. If you asked me, I'd say Simon is the least posh-sounding of them! Jackson's speech, to my British ear, evokes a kind of olden days Southern US vibe that is very much the idea of posh Southern gentlefolk, while Luke's accent definitely sounds very careful and well-spoken, even if I'm not familiar enough to know what the specific idea of "posh" would sound like in his particular variety of American English. With Simon on the other hand, as a fellow Brit the non-posh elements of his speech jump out immediately, particularly a lot of 'estuarised' sounds. I'd say the class inferences of his speech to me would be something like "well-educated individual, with middling-to-slightly-lower-than-middling prestige accent". I presume we naturally pick up on the nuances of that which we are familiar with, and the foreign tends to sound fancy! Much as in an intra-English context some Northerners can quite often classify any Southern accent (i.e. anyone with a trap-bath split) as automatically "posh", even if the particular Southern accent is one that other Southerners might say sounds like a chavvy yokel in class terms!

@cerdic6305

11 ай бұрын

Completely agree, Simon doesn’t sound posh at all to me whereas Luke sounds almost transatlantic at times

@violenceislife1987

11 ай бұрын

Interesting, yes I have occasionally heard what "posh" British sounds like, and Simon has a different accent to them, but I didn't really attach "prestige" to it... I think of it as "city" VS "rural" . My own accent is rural southern Louisiana.

@SouthPark333Gaming

11 ай бұрын

I completely agree!

@sean668

11 ай бұрын

American chiming in. Luke does sound incredibly refined to me. He has a sort of polished accent that sounds very close to the neutral American English used on train announcements for clarity. The only other place I've heard it is at universities. I don't think Jackson sounds posh at all, though. His accent is Joe Shmo Texas.

@francisdec1615

11 ай бұрын

The British accent was in principle "invented" in the 1770s to sound different from the rebellious Americans' accent. So while many US accents can sound refined, the British accent is kind of "inorganic", and in that respect it's the most posh of all.

I like how Jackson just calmly sits in confusion and repeats "no one in this world" Thats ytp material!

@violenceislife1987

11 ай бұрын

I found his pronunciation of "useless" to be noticeably different from Simon's.

@that_flnger

11 ай бұрын

​@@violenceislife1987yes i think Jackson pronounces the u sound too softly

@marcelagarcia3925

7 ай бұрын

@@violenceislife1987 Yes! I was surprised that none of them caught it.

Drinking game: take a shot every time Simon says "reckon" 😅

I think it's amazing how at 37:15, Roper tries pronouncing "possible" and I can't help hearing it as an Englishman saying "passable", even though the words coming before and after sounded perfectly American to me. It really speaks to how fine-tuned all the vowels in your native tongue really are, and how hard it is to adjust them to the right place when imitating an accent, especially if (like in this case) one of your own vowels is closer (but not identical). Even for Roper, who has made a KZread career out of being very good at pronouncing English in different ways.

@DrWhom

10 ай бұрын

akdabooss

@violenceislife1987

6 ай бұрын

Interesting

As a vocalist it’s very interesting to watch this and think not only of the mouth and tongue placement but also the difference in where the voice resonates from. This is something we think a lot in singing and it seems like a big difference in Jackson doing Simon’s accent is actually where his voice is placed because Simon has such a soft and more breathy placement that sounds more towards the head than deep in the chest where Jackson naturally sits.

@gabbytriestomakethings

11 ай бұрын

It was also interesting to note that you did the timbre and general voice quality after the ipa when usually if I’m mimicking a person I start with where it’s felt and then do the ipa because something about where it’s felt informs for me the mouth and tongue so it’s more intuitive than just learning by wrote. But that’s from a singer actor perspective not a linguist. It seems like the two approaches are different.

@totlyepic

11 ай бұрын

This was my perspective as well. I would also say that Jackson's voice is tonally darker as well, although Simon's isn't not dark.

@philoaviaticus

11 ай бұрын

Facial nasal maybe sinus structure for Luke predisposes to nasal trends and higher register speaking?

@Galenus1234

11 ай бұрын

To me, Jackson's voice quality changes quite a bit when he switches from speaking English to reading Old Norse. I'd like to hear the opinion of a professional on this...

@MuriKakari

6 ай бұрын

@@Galenus1234 Languages flat out have different pitches. For example, a cheater way to do an approximate (good enough to get the point across) Russian accent is to start with a Scottish accent and then dip your head, which lowers your voice. Many Russians have high voices, but the entire language sounds lower than English.

We have these discussions all the time in my conlang discord, this is beautiful, haha

@JackWabbitTV

11 ай бұрын

Is that an open discord?

Three of the coolest people on KZread collaborating. I'm American, but from the south east US. We say "I reckon" here, but we get poked fun at over it, but it sounds quite proper from a Brit.

This video is like watching 3 magicians develop a magic trick from scratch. I have no idea how you're doing it but it's fascinating to watch. Also I wonder if after recording you felt like you'd said the same word so many times it stops making sense but for your whole accent.

Having three linguists break down the finest details of their language really reminds me how strange and magical it is that we have these language systems in the first place. The way we use extremely nuanced small mouth noises to convey complex ideas is a true every day miracle.

@violenceislife1987

6 ай бұрын

The word was god

I signed up to all of your channels (Jackson, then Simon, then Luke), without realising that you could all get together. This is magic, and relaxing.

Me, a Tennessean listening to each of these accents, and thinking "yall have no idea how extended a diphthong can be" (Just teasing!). I think all of you did extremely well. What really impressed me, was that each of you did a great job (with fits and starts) of replicating each other's accents, but without it turning to mimicry. I would have immediately been trying to mimic each voice, without really trying to. So, while none of you really sounded like the other person, you all nailed their speach patters. Simon and Dr Crawford sounded the most alike, I think, because each have deeper, more resonant voices, but when Luke wasn't tripping over his vowels (he was presented with some difficult ones) he did great. Watching Simon get so amused was so much fun, I could tell all of you were enjoying the exercises, but Simon's joy stood out. This was a very short couple of hours, listening to three of my favorite linguists. I think you're all posh gents, and would love to see you do something similar again. Sorry for such a long response, but thanks to all three of you, and thank you, Simon, for hosting this.

@finbear

11 ай бұрын

I was born in the US South and I laughed out loud at your first comment because it is *so* accurate! I'm reminded of a Dr Phil episode from the 1990s where a guest from... Arkansas, I think?... said his name, and he just blinked at her and said, "Did you just put five different vowels in the word Phil?" 🤣

@robinrehlinghaus1944

10 ай бұрын

​@@finbearPhıíeæeìl

@MedK001

7 ай бұрын

@@finbear Now I'm curious about that episode lol. It seems hilarious!

@violenceislife1987

6 ай бұрын

Lol 😂 howdy neighbor (Chattanooga)

@violenceislife1987

6 ай бұрын

@@finbear I didn't see it but if I might take a guess: [Ph I ay ul]

Jackson sounds like Christopher Lee when he does his Simon impression. Could we get a Saruman impression next time??

It was after 15 minutes of me rewinding and imitating all three of you and actually discussing out loud what I was discovering but finally realising that I wasn't online with you that I think this might just be my personal jam 🤣

@purple_purpur7379

11 ай бұрын

yess!! exactly! i love this kind of thing so much

Out of the three, I felt that Luke had the widest range in his ability to imitate sounds. He can even do impressions! Perhaps it’s because of the number of languages he speaks.

This is so much fun. I would watch this kind of exercise every week.

Luke imitating Simon's "no one" is my spirit animal.

Nobody else in the world can use vocal fry in their voice because Jackson Crawford possesses all of it 💀

I remember in the military there was me (from Southern California) a buddy from the mountains of Tennessee, another buddy from New Hampshire. These areas have very distinct American accents because its from different corners of the United States. We were drinking of course but we tried to imitate each other and it was so funny!

"I've heard dogs sounding lots of ways" - I was expecting you to bark in different accents.

Saw this notification and instantly grinned like a madman

OK so at first, to me, this just seemed like a strange, perhaps silly and fun thing to try, but then watching the video---you guys are all great at turning this into a very interesting and educational experience! Loved it

I just like listening to y'all talk.

Dr. Crawford was very very quick in picking up Simon's accent. Pretty amazing. I honestly thought Simon's reading of that line sounds not all that different from typical American accent.

@DrWhom

10 ай бұрын

?

Damn Luke has turned full Mr Pringle!

In addition to the main topic of this video being super interesting, I was fascinated as a German speaker by how well Luke could make the single syllable "so" sound German.

Love seeing these three guys just hanging out!

Simon, you are a really *excellent* accent mimic. I say this as someone who has a knack for accents myself, but you're better than me. I have a native General American accent (Educated East Coast variant of Midlands). The one tiny error I hear in your imitation of Jackson is that you tend to slightly overdo the nasalization on some of his nasalized consonents. To an American ear the result sounds just a touch parodic. The "transatlantic" softened rhoticity Luke noticed is a class marker - it's characteristic of upper-class dialects, especially on the East Coast. Fifty years ago that stratum of accents was much less rhotic, more resembling BRP of the time. Rhoticity has been infiltrating them from the Middle American dialect over my lifetime. In general Luke's accent has a rather upper-crust sound, which is something that tends to happen with people who have self-reconstructed their idiolect a lot. It's interesting that Jackson brought up fake accents on country radio. He's right - it's really obvious to an American with any dialect ear and it's *incredibly irritating*. I figured out years ago that it activates the evolved cheater-detection module in my head.

@francisdec1615

11 ай бұрын

FDR sounded almost British to me, who is a Swede having English as my second language. But already JFK sounded much more US American.

@lucie4185

11 ай бұрын

​@@francisdec1615yes there is a definite section of upper class East coast accents or newsreaders, where it can be hard to tell if they are American or British, sometimes it's only on the stress patterns you can hear the difference.

@finbear

11 ай бұрын

@@francisdec1615 FDR and JFK were from different places. Honestly I suspect that accounts for their different accents a lot more than the 20-ish years separating their times in office. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, regional accents in the US were much more distinct from one another.

@violenceislife1987

6 ай бұрын

I agree, when on radio or tv someone from Cali is trying to do a southern accent, it's irritating

Always great to see you guys collaborating. This was fun. Honestly you could just talk about whatever and I'm down to watch for hours.

1:25:39 Simon would make a… novel kind of Bond

I could watch this all day, fantastic! Muscle (tongue) memory is the hardest thing to alter!

Who would have thought this could be so entertaining?! Thanks so much.

This is great and amazing how hard it can be to imitate an accent. You should do something on the Shetland accents.

I love this collaboration. You all make great content individually, but it's cool seeing you make content together. Keep it up!

Two hours in and I still want more haha. I think you guys nailed it!

Wow! Luke looks amazing with that stache.

That moment when you click on the video so early that the sound doesn't play so you just sit there trying to figure put what's wrong

Imagine Danny DeVito: “I've heard dogs sounding lots a ways!”

Thanks I loved this whole thing.

so I think Jackson is suffering from being stereotyped as a cowboy. Because both Luke and Simon make them sound like a Texan. Whereas a rocky Mountain accent has a bit of a drawl and it’s kind of low in pitch but it’s generally it’s much more like general American.

Native Dutch speaker here: I's super interesting to me when Luke and Simon discuss "small", Luke says Simon's last attempt it's pretty much the same as his, whereas to me, even though it's close, I hear Luke saying 'smoll' and Simon saying 'small'. On the other hand, I can't even hear the differencein the T pronounciations in "safety".

Just to join in on the phonetic hair-splitting, I think Jackson is making the /ou/ in 'no one' and the /ju/ in 'useless' too back and too rounded. Simon is saying something like [nəʏwʌn] and [jɨsləs]. Also that 'dn' sound in 'burden' - idk if there's a name for it but there's no tap, the tongue just holds against the alveolar ridge and transitions from /d/ to /n/ without releasing. The stop and release is actually coming from the back of the tongue on the back of the soft palate while the front of the tongue stays pressed against the alveolar position

@purple_purpur7379

11 ай бұрын

I agree with you! And the term is _pre-occluded nasal_

@caboose202ful

11 ай бұрын

As purple_purpur says pre-occluded nasal is one term for it. Another term is "nasal release". Usually transcribed as consonant with no release followed by nasal. [d̚n̩], but 'technically' should be transcribed [dⁿn̩]

@sione_etc

11 ай бұрын

@@purple_purpur7379 @caboose202ful thanks!

@violenceislife1987

11 ай бұрын

Indeed

@violenceislife1987

11 ай бұрын

I find that Jackson's "useless" has more force on the ending [ss] than Simon's.

My three favorite language mavericks! I discovered you all independently, which makes me more self-regarding than fluent in any tongue, dialect, theory or literature, but oh well.

I love the fact that my three favourite youtubers are friends

I respect Luke so much for doing the Sisko monologue.

This feels like one of those Doctor Who anniversary specials

Legends meet each other

so interesting, thanks

One thing with Jackson that I think is playing into his resonance idea is that he seems to speak with a fair amount of vocal fry, and perhaps just a bit of twang, and I think that those aspects of his actual vocal production were influencing how he and the others were hearing his articulation.

Amazing deep voice.❤❤❤

Gosh this was so cool to listen to.

Simon, you have an amazing ear for phonetic imitation.

@Cephlin

11 ай бұрын

You have to remember how much a British ear is exposed to American accents compared to the other way round

Jackson has a Brokeback Mountain-y western flavor to his speech. Simple and direct. Luke just sounds like urbane American.

Fascinating!

Thank you for the interesting content.

There’s a bit of Liverpool in Simon’s speech NW England anyway But quite “Estuarised”

Love these uploads so much I watched all 2 hours in 3 mins

Fascinating.

Fascinating

Why dose Luke have that 1800s early 1900s amadeus moustache 😂😂😅

Goated friend group

The American pronunciation of the word “anything” trips up most English actors. That’s always the tell of a Brit in an American role. 😁 Just discovered this video - so much fun!

Two hours! I’m going to have to wait to watch this, but it looks great.

@j.s.c.4355

11 ай бұрын

2:14: Yer overthinkin’ it, mate. Just go for it!

That was really fun!

Luke’s voice is so much higher in pitch than Jackson’s that I feel like that is the main challenge The two of them are having. They are tuned into those vowel sounds, but it is actually the pitch and speed that distinguishes them.

@MuriKakari

6 ай бұрын

And Simon has a grit that the other two don't which was the main challenge throwing off theirs for him I think.

I need to see these three make a weekly podcast. I'd love to see how high the average number of Star Trek references would be!

Simon, wonderful stuff as always. Can you give me your opinion as to why the accent in DORSET seems to have almost gone? My family all had wonderful Dorset accents, bur now when I’m there I only hear an accent from South east, London area. Yet when one is in Liverpool, or further North, everyone still has the relevant accent? Such a pity to lose Dorset’s wonderful sounds.

I like Jackson's dad humour.

The avengers of historical linguistics KZreadrs reunites😳

Loved it

That was fun!

Ancient Roman, Viking, and Anglo-Saxon lads having a great time all together.

The sun goes down over the course of the video for Simon.

I realized from watching this video that Simon does have a bit of a Cumbrian accent (I'm assuming that's what it is) that I had never really noticed before. If I as a roughly southern UK RP speaker try to copy his accent I can get there by doing something like a mild Leeds accent (or I guess cumbrian accent) and then slide it all towards RP until there's only a tiny trace left. I sound like Simon, weird! (and also some of the younger people I met when travelling in the Lake District)... And now I'm listening to Simon near the end of the video and doubting myself. I think it's only certain words this is true for. This stuff can get so specific!

@ericraymond3734

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, Roper's not a standard Southern RP. I'm American and even I can tell that. Interesting that you identify the other element as Combrian - I could tell it was northern, but coul;dn't nail it closer than that.

@violenceislife1987

11 ай бұрын

So some of it is east midlands, some say.

@grahamh.4230

11 ай бұрын

@@ericraymond3734They may have noted Cumbria only because he talks so much about Cumbrian in his videos.

@grahamh.4230

11 ай бұрын

@@ericraymond3734I’m also American. I haven’t heard much of a Northern accent from Simon except for in one video where he used [ʊ] in the third syllable of “anybody” - that really stuck out.

@DrWhom

10 ай бұрын

@@ericraymond3734 RP is not what you think. In th south of th UK thy speak SSB. RP is a wird accnt from th 40s

Amazing!

I liked this as you did it and also think it would be interesting to do it as another commenter suggests below: quickly, intuitively and without worrying about producing stereotypes and thus offending.

This is too good.

It's interesting seeing what ruts they each get stuck in the most. I guess the goat vowel is hard to copy across accents.

Interesting for me, I am Australian and when I hear the blokes with American accents drop their Accent and move into a British/Simon accent I feel relief in my head, a stress is relaxed. I am probably seeing it in these terms because I have a background in movement and singing.

Off-topic I guess - but I had a thought today, and then thought of you, Simon. ‘Slang’ - as an Australian, slang is part of the daily lived experience here. And of course the British are equally famed for the use of slang. What do we know about the use of slang in Old English? Was it a thing? When did it become so prevalent in the English language (and by extension, I suppose, Australian and other colonial dialects with British roots)? Here it probably emerged as a way to be anti-establishment, to bond with others, for fun. I imagine it played a similar role in England when it emerged also? Regards, Mike Green. Oh, and I enjoy your channel immensely. Thank you!

Thanks!

A thought for next time, it would have been interesting to listen to Luke trying to imitate Simon as well as Jackson, taking it in turns to try and bounce off each other’s attempts. I’m 26 minutes in and I’m hoping that later I’ll get to hear Luke try it and also hear it contrasted against Jackson’s attempts. A side note, as an East Midlander, I have noticed that Simon has a very East Midlands accent in places but then it is swallowed by the southerner in him.

I'm enjoying the sun setting in real time on Simons end

I'm from the Rocky Mountains in Utah, and I pronounce "wh" like Jackson Crawford. I've been teased for it as an adult, living outside the Rocky Mountains.

If you watch the movie about the search for the Boston bombers and at the point of the firefight with Tamerlane Tzarnaev and once the suspect is down you hear on the radio "hald ya fi'ah ,hald ya fi'ah" in subtitles is of coarse "hold your fire" ,great insight into real Boston English

Given the reference to the DS9 episode “In the Pale Moonlight”, I can’t help but exclaim “It’s a fake!!!”

Jackson's imitation of Simon gives me Gandalf/Ian McKellen vibes

I love this so much

Jackson: "You are just a bit slow, Simon" 😂

I need the Charismatic Voice in here now

This is fascinating. If ever you wanna try and learn a New England accent like this let me know

I watched this the other day, and I found myself sort of "playing along". Foreign accents and different dialects were the first linguistics-related area I remember being interested in. I like to think I could hold my own among you three, but until I'm tested, I can't be sure. I'm sure I would end up imitating the voice as well as the accent, which on the one hand might veer a bit too close to parody, but on the other would bring in some of the suprasegmental features that Jackson kept mentioning. Maybe I'll start a channel of my own and invite you all onto a call for a rematch ;)

2:00:41 Simon: "I've heard dogs sounding lots of wise"

1:56:00 on the topic of [ʊː] in Geordie, I'm Australian and I noticed that in my accent and a few other (non-broad) Australian speakers I've tested, the CURE vowel is realised as [ʊː] when followed by a consonant. I always assumed the change was driven by analogy to other vowel length contrasts in AusE, but I don't really have any evidence for that.

Simon is SO GOOD at this, omg!

This was so much fun. I don’t know why I was so tickled to hear Simon doing American accents. I too am a Yankee, and was surprised to hear how close Luke’s accent is to my New York accent. I think some of those things like the dark L come from older immigrant groups, I’m thinking of Yiddish, German, maybe Eastern European accents.

At 23:25 so interesting to ponder the relationship between an actor capturing the speech of a known person and how caricature drawings function. Caricature drawings are successful if the artist has correctly identified what proportions of the subject's face deviate from average. Let's say the subject's eyes are a tiny bit closer together than average. Everyone who knows that person subconsciously knows it. Thus the artist can draw the eyes a tad closer together than average, or keep pushing them closer until they're actually touching! It doesn't matter; everyone who knows that person will say the drawing looks like the subject as long as the eyes are closer than average. I don't think this can work with accent and voice quality- the actor can't push things too far. This, then, is more like realistic portraiture, I reckon.