The Resonate Arc Xeno-Cast, has become my favorite thing on this platform.

@LuxoXeno

12 күн бұрын

Facts

@GRAG3R

12 күн бұрын

same, it makes me come back

@LS1Highwind

12 күн бұрын

They brought me in with Xenogears and I never left 😊

@JCDadalus

12 күн бұрын

Amen to that

@jairekambui7738

12 күн бұрын

@@yaldabaothofgalar2618 Betcha they’ll never do Xenoblade 2 or 3 tho

What a mammoth episode. A scene I really liked that you kinda entirely skipped over (I think?) was Ziggy completely losing it when Voyager shows up as the Black Testament, because it's a callback to the scene in Episode 1 when Ziggy confronts Jr about if he'll be able to keep it together and not lose it when he faces Albedo. Shows that Ziggy, too, cannot keep himself in check when his "archnemesis" shows up. The relationship between Jr and Ziggy is a really good one I feel since they can connect and talk unflinchingly about things they understand about each other.

You forgot about the very cryptic but significant line "Weaver of the eternal cycle of Zarathustra" There is never going to be a video game series quite like xenosaga in terms of its unbelievable depth and cohesive narrative threads. It is one of the greatest, most ambitious attempts at story telling in a jrpg medium of video games that I ever played.

1:41:41 For the longest time, Ever since my twin brother and I were young, we always joked about how if we were not twins, we would be one complete being, but since we exist now as twins, our powers are diminished; cut in half, and weak! We poke fun that on some fateful day, one of us will absorb the other in a battle of the ages haha. We still joke about this to this day, in a funny Saturday-morning-cartoon sort of way. The scene with Rubedo and Albedo made me tear up more than any other scene in Xenosaga Ep. 2, because the flip-flop of emotions between them from anger & wanting to kill the other, to sorrow & longing not to lose the other, was so well executed. I know in my heart that although my brother can push my buttons like no one else, he also brings out the kid in me like no one else. Should he pass away long before i do, i am absolutely positive i would be devastated beyond anything i could imagination

Your confusion about Shion being emotional about Cecily and Cathe is understandable. Her connection to them was one aspect of the story that was cut from the original script, and it's portrayed more clearly in the DS remake. Cecily and Cathe, like Febronia, are childhood friends of Shion's and she would often play with them while she waited outside her mother's hospital room. The DS version adds a lot of stuff that was in the original script of the game, but was unfortunately cut with the change in direction.

@iLLSpotMedia

12 күн бұрын

Episode 3 expands on Shion's history with Feb and we should be able to infer her connection to the sisters from that

@Flomen01

12 күн бұрын

@@iLLSpotMedia this is also true yes. But there are timeline reasons as to why they make no appearance in episode 3 as well.

This podcast brought back memories of the "No! Red Dragon Mode!" moment. I laughed out loud when that happened, and laughed again when you talked about it. The wording is awkward, but the delivery is so sincere

I don't have a twin sibling, but the discussion reminded me of a story I heard on This American Life about a woman who had lost her twin sister when she was very young. She said they had a very strong bond, and described it as almost like a romance, it was that close of a connection. Then, after her sister died, she was not only devastated, but for her entire life she tried to keep her sister around by living vicariously for her. She basically was trying to live two lives, one for herself, and one for her sister, all at once. It's a very interesting story, and gives some insight into what someone losing their twin can be like. It's called "Megan and Sybil," and is available on the TAL website.

I’m so happy you are making this format for my favorite series, Xenosaga! Thank you.

Really happy to see this series forging on, can't wait until you get to Episode III and give unto us the Xenoconclusion!

lmfao -- Mike getting frustrated and just playing XS3 just to get answers is so, as they say, xeno-typiclal. I remember having to ~wait~ for XS3 to release to get those answers and it was torture.

I'm so glad you guys found enjoyment in the game. I feel like much of the discourse on XS2 is extremely weighted toward the negative, but the whole game was worth it to hear Albedo implore Jr to breath his particles in deep. On replay I recognize the shortcomings but concentrated on the strengths and came away liking the experience much better and it's easy to forget in retrospect that alot of this strong URTV plot centric stuff happens in this game. It does end up doing alot of good plot work to advance their storyline.

So, that drill sergeant you guys were talking about in this episode is actually the same drill sergeant that was in Episode 1 - Commander Vanderkam. I'm not surprised you didn't catch that, given that you only hear his voice, and he had a new voice actor that decided to give him a horrible fake southern accent. Apparently this is made more explicit in the DS version, which is tragically still untranslated. You mentioned during the whole Cecily and Cathe scene (which is among my least favorite in the game) that made you feel like you were missing context. This is one of my major issues with this game - for what feels like every major plot twist, I feel like the game didn't do a good job establishing the gravity of what we're witnessing. You focused on Shion, Cecily and Cathe - the moment I vividly remember from my first playthrough is the reveal of Voyager. When I first saw that scene, and witnessed Ziggy acting very out of character by screaming and unloading his rocket launcher without a second thought, all I could think was, am I missing something? It's almost as if the team didn't remember what the player is or isn't supposed to know at this point. There are so many moments like this all throughout the game, and I felt it substantially weakened the execution of the story.

@quiddity131

12 күн бұрын

The discussions in earlier episodes about playing Pied Piper before Episode II helping certainly is the case in that scene. If one plays II first, which was the case for me and probably most people (since PP is an obscure cell phone game not officially translated), you've got this new character coming out of nowhere and Ziggy flipping out over it for some unknown reason.

@TJTheEmperor

12 күн бұрын

@@quiddity131 Pied Piper even came out in Japan after Episode II, so even the game’s first Japanese players would’ve been confused as well. I can’t fathom why the team decided to do that

The ending of Episode 2 is really good. The story as a whole is great. The combat not so much. Episode 3 is where the formula is perfected.

This is honestly making me wanna replay the trilogy. Luckily I still have them all!

@deedoubs

12 күн бұрын

Maybe, but this trilogy really needs a cohesive remake... one with a single combat system that wraps the best elements of all of the and trims up the pacing and makes the menuing slick like Persona 5.

@cloudkitt

11 күн бұрын

I did a replay of the trilogy when they covered Episode 1. I can't do it every time! xD

@neogotham2k395

8 күн бұрын

Me too and I agree!

I'm surprised that episode 2 was this good. Awesome podcasts guys.

There’s a book (you can also find the free pdf online provided by the publishers) called Ordo ab Chao: A Guide to Understanding Xenosaga. Reading that along with watching this podcast series should help simplify the absolute behemoth known as Xenosaga games

@GamblerofFates

11 күн бұрын

Just found it! Thank you for the suggestion! Though your autocorrect changed “AB” to “AN”

@BronzedrazRPG

11 күн бұрын

@@GamblerofFates Thanks for letting me know! I just changed it so hopefully more people will have an easier time looking for it

@GamblerofFates

9 күн бұрын

@@BronzedrazRPG hope so! From what I’ve seen the book is pretty interesting

Yuriev is straight up cookin

One of the best podcasts to listen to on KZread. 🙂

I'm so happy you guys are doing 3 soon :) I was waiting for 2 for years and worried you might take awhile to get to 3.

Yesssssss I’m here for anything Xenosaga❤

So excited that you're going right into Missing Year and Episode 3 after this! I can't wait!

SO glad you guys are doing 2 and 3! would have sucked too wait a year or so for the 3rd!

Really have been enjoying these episodes and I am thrilled that you are going straight onwards to Xenosaga 3. 3 has a lot of story beats worth discussing, in my opinion, so I hope you get a lot of episodes worth out of it.

Been a fan of you gentlemen since your early days after becoming Resonant Arc and livestreaming a talk show of sorts on Twitch. I love the meaningful content you guys do with my favorite medium of entertainment. Mike's in-depth philosophical & storytelling analysis, Casen's analysis of language and symbolism, and both contributing to religious symbolism analysis are always fascinating to watch and/or listen. Keep up the fantastic work, gentlemen. It may not seem like much, but it helps me get through the day whenever I'm feeling down or stressed. So...thanks, guys.

Keep up the great work guys.

I think there's no way that in the style and pace of storytelling in Xenosaga 1, Yuriev would just spontaneously "take over Parliament" in one scene, nor would Shion's confrontation with the realian twins fall so flat. So many of these things happen so quickly and have so little impact, because in this expedited, flimsy pace that Monolith chose for this game, all of the buildup that would make these plot points revelatory is missing. When I think back to gripping and immersive scenes in XS1, like when Cherenkov was present at the KOS-MOS activation incident where she flipped out and murdered Kevin, it just feels like a completely different series to this game. XS2 manages to make all the buildup to the Y-Data contents end in a static camera wideshot where Jin flatly exposits about how Ormus, an organization that has barely been introduced, let alone had the chance to establish context and meaning for the audience, is really behind U-TIC!!! So what? I have a feeling that all of this stuff would have been captivating if they had continued with Takahashi as director. It would have taken 40 years to develop, but hey, I'd wait

You guys covering Xenosaga is incredibly helpful. One downsides of the trilogy format is that complete replays are a huge commitment. I never really mastered the material of this series the way I did for Xenogears and other beloved stand alone games that I could play over and over. This is a series that is seemingly incredibly relevant again and I really needed the refresher. Barring some kind of port or remaster, or remake, or directors cut edition coming to Switch, these videos are the best way to catch up.

Excited for the episode!

One thing to keep in mind with episode 2's gameplay is that it's much more tedious if you're not using optimal strategies. Without a guide the average player will struggle if they don't figure things out quickly

@cheshireimp493

12 күн бұрын

I think another issue is that the game just becomes a cycle of rinse and repeat once you find a good strat. Honestly balancing is a big issue with the gameplay. It's clear they wanted you to be able to experiment and come up with multiple different builds with the design of the skill system but almost every other build is less than reasonable for dispatching enemies. I remember when I first played it, I didn't even use team attacks or most other skills because launching an enemy and hitting them with an elemental combo solved nearly every boss encounter. People will naturally take the path of least resistance and the game.

@quiddity131

12 күн бұрын

@@cheshireimp493 I've played this game I think at least 4 or 5 times over the years? I don't think I've ever used one of those team/dual attacks ever. I'd instead sell the books that teach you them for that stupid Captain Matthews debt sidequest.

@cheshireimp493

12 күн бұрын

@@quiddity131 I should've done that.

@cloudkitt

11 күн бұрын

But even the optimal strategy takes forever, because you have to spend a million turns just stocking.

@TheMilhouseExperience

11 күн бұрын

I think elemental stacking is my favorite obscure game mechanic in any game ever. Most people who played 2 don’t know it exists, or how broken it is.

I loved the E.S battles in this game. They were so much more interesting than using the EGWS's from the first game. I really like being able to swap pilots/co pilots to create attacks that would melt bosses.

@quiddity131

12 күн бұрын

The mechs in the first game are never actually necessary, and if anything are detrimental; in my last playthrough I struggled a lot when using them in a late game boss fight and immediately did way more damage going back to using the characters. II and III make the smart decision of going back to how it was in Xenogears where you have in person battles and mech battles rather than the option to use either in each one.

Casen is asking the right questions about Kevin. :)

The nod towards Blade Runner was really something for me. Like Mike mentioned, the scene where Hauer delivers the speech is amazing, but let's not forget he wrote it himself few hours before the shoot. ps. where is Mr. Holleman?!?!

Very cool video!

My favorite podcast

I think I mentioned it in the first XS2 podcast, but my issues with the narrative were comparatively minor- the voice acting among them. I thought it failed most as a game- while the others in the series have gameplay systems that are, at worst, fairly quick to move through this game was a pain to actually play. And a lot of environments repeat; I was not a fan of the seasonal encephalon "dungeons". EDIT: Ah, this gets covered. Nevermind me, then. I will say this game's encounters go longer than normal, and that is more frustrating to me than most rpgs.

Oh boy, Episode 3 coming up. This is going to be wild.

Man! I wish you guys had done these when I played the trilogy last year! But I’m still gonna get around to listening soon. I agree, the XS2 slander is overblown. I enjoyed it more than 1 to be honest. Granted some of the electronic music tracks were questionable. Also I quite liked Shions voice actor in 2 and didn’t understand the hate there one bit

Excellent intro!

Such an underrated game. My biggest gripe is having skills locked behind lackluster side quests. It hurts the story momentum pretty badly.

Mike with the fresh cut

I responded to this video almost as quick as the spam bots. 17:17 Edit: I saw in another video somewhere, that all the female leads names are derived from flowers. 57:34 The children running around the tree in part one of Xenosaga are Cecilly and Cathe. They're Febronia's sisters.

I think the problem of Xenosaga episode II is that its battles take too long, and aren’t fun. Sometimes simple mob take as long as a boss, with make going trough the game really hard. This, pairing with the awful facial animation of shion and kos-mos make it a easy game to drop. Only the story hold us.

I hope you guys will do the Trails series one day

Just in case you guys aren't aware of it yet, for Ep III, the NTSC version of the game was heavily censored, to the point where several scenes don't make any sense. It may be worth while to look up those censored scenes as you go through the game.

@aidanuzuki3449

11 күн бұрын

It's actually awful how bad it is. It would have made an M rating easily without the censoring.

@jacobmonks3722

11 күн бұрын

I don't know about that because the opening scene from Xenosaga 1 on the Woglinde was pretty brutal itself, and that game only got a T rating. ​@aidanuzuki3449

@quiddity131

11 күн бұрын

Alas, the censorship makes what should be one of the most emotional impactful moments of the game laughable, and renders another key scene kinda incomprehensible. Unlike Episode I, where the censorship worked in its favor (Albedo tearing off his head with his own hands is scarier than doing it with a knife), that absolutely isn't the case for III. Arguably the only flaw with the game.

Great discussion as always. But I was surprised that there was barely a mention of Abel’s ark. That was a pretty epic and important moment

@michaelcoraybrown

12 күн бұрын

I'm not sure what there is to say about it at this moment in time. We just have no context for it at this point in the story.

@mirok.2586

12 күн бұрын

Maybe some speculation on what the name implies…and this is a gigantic ship with whole planets inside of it, so maybe worth a mention…;-) but I get it. Keep up the great work. I absolutely love this show.

1:01:04 They didn't actually transport a planet sized butterfly thing from one planet to another. It's more like the Deus system from Xenogears, which builds itself into the planet and then emerges eventually. In fact The Deus system in Xenogears was also a weapon system using the Zohar as the energy source and was originally stationed on Miktam. In the Xenosaga timeline on the other hand, Proto Omega was moved from Miktam to Old Miltia when Miktam was lost to Gnosis. The difference there is curious, but makes a lot of sense when you understand the end of Xenosaga episode III. Just something to keep in mind. While the PR of Xenosaga often times suggested it, the episode I of Xenogears Perfect Works does not take place at the same time as Xenosaga, but it is actually advisable to play Xenogears before Xenosaga to truly understand the whole picture. How they relate can only be understood at the end. Very similar to how it is now with Xenoblade.

Excellent episode. I’m a little weirded out by just how quickly you guys sprinted through XS2. I can only assume you’re enjoying it so much, you can’t help but play it as much as possible. Casen’s intuition about always having one more thing to hold on a few more years for, is astute. I think that if life went on indefinitely, with our youth faculties and function intact, we simply wouldn’t want it to end. People only choose death to escape misery. Healthy, old people still want to live, sometimes they’re terrified of death, like my grandmother. Observing her existential dread about dying, even at her ripe age, made me very aware of just how much she enjoys living. That’s the crux of the question about whether to extend one’s life or not.

At least Albedo got his wish come true before losing Jr / Rubedo and Gaignun / Nigredo in front of him as well as being all alone

Wilhelm shares his name with the father of psychology.

22:00 Quick note, from Domains of Play one of the axises of fun on Challenge is Work. So the grind you're against is actually enjoyable for others. That said, I quit 2 because I couldn't figure out how the battle system worked due to the emphasis on statuses. I typically ground my way to being overpowered and crushed RPGs through brute force which doesn't work in 2.

(A) Thinking ahead to the Xenosaga II Final Episode this week. I'd be curious to find out (1) what Mike's and Casen's ultimate takeaway was from Xenosaga II, (2) how and to what extent they think the game managed to execute its theme and explore Nietzsche's ideas in a subtle and interesting way, (3) whether they think Xenosaga II suffered in some writing levels with the departure of Takahashi and Saga, (4) their feelings towards the Yuki Kajura soundtrack (which, for me, is hands down the best part of the game).

@quiddity131

12 күн бұрын

Alas, I don't think we got a single mention throughout all 3 episodes of the music. It's an interesting topic, as while Mitsuda is a very acclaimed composer, the musical choices in Episode I were often quite poor, with most tracks only being used once (beyond the battle music which was used for every fight sans the final boss) and most dungeons having no background music at all. Kajiura has a very different style but I'd argue her music here is just as good as MItsuda's, and in anime circles she is probably even more famous than he is nowadays (not so at the time this game came out). Only downside is she isn't given the full soundtrack until III but unlike most I'm still kinda okay with the music from the other composers here as well.

@michs7451

12 күн бұрын

@@quiddity131 I think Yuki Kajura absolutely killed it with Xenosaga II & III's soundtrack, and succeeded in giving the games a coherent feeling. Xenosaga I feels more similar in spirit to Xenogears, a large part because of Mitsuda's involvement. I think music certainly plays a huge role in the "feeling" of the game.

In the scene where Chaos catches Jr after Sakura fades into him, I always took that scene (even before having played XS3) that Chaos has access to her spirit and was letting her emulate through him. Also just wanna say thank you for helping me enjoy this game more, you guys helped this game be less bad from my perspective. I still don't like a lot of it, I find the voice acting generally worse, especially for Momo, Shion and Kos-Mos, but everyone else's the same or better. The combat felt overall worse with the new inner working systems, but yeah you at least see the enemies on the map. But where you helped a lot is in appreciating the story more, I've listened to a lot of vids from many perspectives and only yours and Lorerunner's helped me appreciate the game more. Sweet Song is my favorite ending theme and I'll be using it in my tabletop game as the Mid section ending when my players reach the halfway point before I take a break to start writing the second half of the story. The themes of time passing and things long gone, dead, but also something new is being born is a beautiful theme for that song and the game if people can just handle the worst parts of themselves and stand shoulder to shoulder with people they care for flaws shared/evened out between them and all.

@AdlerCat

12 күн бұрын

I suspect the angelic Kirchwasser's were chaos as well, trying to help both tortured souls find some kind of peace.

So, as far as grinding goes, where I got hung up wasn't so much the repetition (this is a general issue I share regarding JRPGs) as much as it was the incompleteness causing a sharp turn into not really being able to prepare adequately. I got more or less softlocked on my playthrough because I couldn't keep up with the need for ether packs. I basically ran out in an area (it was in one of the later MOMO dive sequences, I want to say it's when Albedo activated his trap card) where the only way to get them was through enemies I was underleveled for, and I needed them for consistent heals. It became a war of attrition, and I lost.

In my experience, a lot of things aren't as horrible as people make out when they're revisited years later. Not saying those people are wrong, but our knee jerk reactions aren't always the most considered. I'm guilty of it. I used to utterly hate the Matrix sequels, but after many years I have mellowed on that hate. These days, while feeling they still fall a bit short, I can see and appreciate what the makers were going for. And yes, that includes Resurrections.

I don't know this for sure, but I assumed that when the game pointed out the nanomachines being directed by some unknown will, tunneling through the planet, it was meant to suggest that the thing that erupted from Miltia was constructed autonomously by the nanomachines over years using the raw materials of the innards of Miltia itself, so the preposterousness of the task and the concerns involving mass and materials make a little more sense

@michaelcoraybrown

11 күн бұрын

This is a very good point and makes a lot of sense now.

Proto Omega was the one that was built on Michtam, the Omega System is a separate thing

On the subject of experience gains in JRPGs: I actually really like how Nihon Falcom handles this in all of their games, and how modern Monolithsoft handles it in the Xenoblade series. Both devs make it so that you gain more experience for defeating enemies that are stronger than you and less for defeating enemies that are weaker than you, combined with generally balancing the difficulty really well so that you are almost always keeping pace with the level requirements for the story. Additionally, most of Falcom's "Trails" series will let you do field attacks to enemies in the overworld to gain advantage in battles, or even outright kill enemies that are sufficiently below your level, making backtracking through previous areas far less tedious; and the soon-to-be-western-released Trails Through Daybreak games went ahead and added a whole real-time combat system into the series, allowing you to mop up trash mobs without ever having to enter turn-based mode. Meanwhile, the Xenoblade games will make enemies that are sufficiently below your level flat out ignore you, as well as allowing you to multiply the amount of experience you gain by overkilling enemies and bosses with chain attacks, and also reward you with tons of bonus experience for completing side quests and just exploring the world. All of this allows these games to significantly cut down on grinding, which is much appreciated, and I say this as someone who usually fights every enemy I see in JRPGs. Anyway, here's my usual plug for 13 Sentinels: As much of a pain as it might be to set up due how non-linear it is, would you guys consider doing a podcast on 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim in the future? It is an absolutely insane sci-fi story, one of the best I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing. It pays homage to all of the classic sci-fi stories, in particular the ones of the 80s, while managing to masterfully tie them all together in an original story with one jaw-dropping plot twist after another. It is a masterclass in non-linear storytelling, and I'd really like to see you guys break down the plot and storytelling techniques used in the game, for two reasons in particular. 1. There are seriously not enough videos out there analyzing this very niche and relatively unknown game. 2. Much like with Xenogears, you only get to experience this game's mind-screwy rollercoaster of a plot for the first time once, then all you can do is enjoy watching other people experience it for the first time. Again, might be a bit of a pain to plan out because of how non-linear it is, but I think this game truly deserves the State of the Arc treatment.

@quiddity131

12 күн бұрын

A really good thing about Xenoblade for me is that you get experience from non-battle things. Finding new locations, completing sidequests and various other things get you experience. And you get the choice as to whether to immediately use it or save it in a bank (which is the best way to handle it for Xenoblade 3 as leveling too much screws you over for class development).

I know it's not really this channels thing but it would be really interesting to see these guys talk about dark souls/bloodborne/elden ring and how they interpret all the symbolism and themes in those games.

Glad you guys liked the game so much. Back when you did Xenosaga Episode I, knowing the reputation for II is rather bad, I thought to myself that at least you guys would be able to get through it fairly quick and get to III which practically everyone considers the best one. But lo and behold you ended up enjoying II quite a bit! While I've grown more appreciation for the story upon subsequent replays, these last 3 episodes have provided even more of that to me. I got quite the chuckle when you ended up skipping Orgulla entirely until someone brought her up; I think the overall reputation of Orgulla is that she's the most useless character in all of Xenosaga. She's most well known not for any story role but rather the fact that you can exploit her boss fight to steal the same item from her 20 times to sell for the worst sidequest in the game (I'd argue in all of JRPGs) where you have to payoff Captain Matthews' debt. Personally I feel Shion's reaction to Cecily and Cathe being a bit over the top is in large part due to Olivia Hack's poor acting there. Thank god Lia Sargent comes back for III. I think ultimately her reaction makes sense but one really needs the third game to get all the context. At the time it happens in the game it doesn't carry the effect they were intending.

I only played 3 and all I heard about 2 were negatives, specially that it killed off the Xenosaga series. But watching you guys play it and love the story, makes me want to buy all three main games and play through them

It's odd how you two stated the jewel in the Zohar is like an ocean color similar to Kos-Mos new design yet, didn't bother to address the current state of the Miltia city 14 years later being sunken and completely flooded by the ocean.

Didn't this channel have playlists for a final fantasy 13 discussion in 7 parts? Also, a discussion playlist for Final Fantasy Tactics? I can't seem to find either of them.

Hi. Identical twin here and big fan of the show and Xenosaga series, which is why im a Patreon sub. I think my answer would vary greatly depending on age. Ages 0-21 my brother and I were rarely apart. Roommates in HS (boarding school) and college. And we did all the same activities. Im a natural introvert but made worse by the fact that i didnt NEED to make friends. I always had an automatic best friend around. I sometimes dont even consider myself a fully separate person at that stage in my life (sadly). Hard to really gauge the junior albedo scene because my brother isnt that twisted... But it definitely would have set me back psychologically. Maybe for life. Like a part of me dying. Now that im older, the biggest blow to me would be my wife passing, and now my kids. Despite being identical twins, my brother is basically just a close brother now. Im 38 for context.

Orgulla is an assassin with multiple personalities. Sound familiar? - i might have mentioned it in a previous, but you also see a holographic bunnie next to Toys Universe in Old Miltia (14 years ago). The way it's positioned, it almost looks like Bunnie is presiding over the fight between Margulis and Jin. I still have no idea if i'm meant to read into that or not lol - in regards to Rubedo losing Albedo, my brother, though we are not twins, the scene definitely hit on an emotional level, especially Rubedo's words. As for Albedo being lifted away by the Kirschwasser angels was kind of an absurd image, so I kind of laughed haha. And yes, your sibling is 100% a part of you, even if you are distant, or even hate each other.

Thank you two for helping me understand why 2nd half of this game outside of the ending didn't hit with me even though I can still remember the scenes visually as with Shion's reaction to Cecily and Cathe. It was definitely the lack of context at the time. After Finishing the whole series, I could go back and logically tie the characters together, but I couldn't get the same emotional reaction I think was intended without having the information beforehand. I think that lack of context is huge missing piece for that section of the story for me. A lot of characters are reintroduced, and some introduced around that time and serve no real purpose outside of being a boss fight. Perhaps it is partly my fault for expecting some purpose to characters like Vanderkam, Richard, and Hermann-the latter two, I believe, were not even noteworthy enough to be mentioned by either of you during the Ormus Stronghold- even if only to push the plot forward in way that couldn't have been filled by generic foot solider number 45. While backstory and context are given within the database for them, there is a big difference between being told a story and being given a summary. As for the strange obstruction built by the nano-machines the group sees, for me It brought to mind images of nervous system diagrams. I also thought this scene was its way of implying that those same machines rebuilt Proto Omega and that only its core was transferred over.

@quiddity131

12 күн бұрын

Re: Richard and Hermann It comes off as quite dumb to me for us to have these characters that we never actually see, they're always in their mechs. If I don't even know what the character looks like it's hard for me to have any feelings for them.

@cheshireimp493

12 күн бұрын

@@quiddity131 It is strange isn't it, they introduce them in the first few hours of the game come up with a backstory but include none of it in the story and or even have them do anything outside of fight you in their mechs. If my memory is correct, in the DS Xenosaga 1&2 they have portraits at the least.

@Karifean

11 күн бұрын

I felt like bosses like that in this game are just this game's take on what in Xenosaga 1 would be "Generic Gnosis Monster Boss #8". Yeah they're nothing super special, but they put effort in to give these human bosses some kind of memorable designs or traits. I'll definitely remember Richard, Hermann and Orgulla too far more than most Xenosaga 1 bosses literally just from their quips in combat alone, so I appreciate this approach.

you guys are greate, i wish i can talk to you guys and have some life advice

Wonder if you guys are going to do a Xenoblade series? From what I've been hearing and reading Xenoblade is essentially monoliths version of what they were trying to do with xenogears and xenosaga and Nintendo gave them the leeway to do just that. Can't wait for Xenosaga ep. 3 podcast, you two are in for a treat! Also Lost Odyssey is going to be amazing!!

I'll need to go back and play 2 but I remember it being not very good, only that it really upgraded the models to more lifelike characters rather than cartoon ones.

Seeing as Takahashi was a fan of Stanley Kubrick and used his ideas. It doesn't surprise me he likes his over abusive military Sargents. It's probably a nod to Full Metal Jacket. On a side note Orgulla (the boss you guys skipped over) is probably a nod to the assassin with split personality from Xenogears. I think it's a nod to Fei and Id from the first game I feel like it ties it back to the Freudian connection from Xenogears. A lot of these games as you might have noticed are mirroring alot of the themes from Xenogears.

@quiddity131

12 күн бұрын

A good point on him probably referencing Kubrick there. Episode III has a very blatant 2001: A Space Odyssey reference in it, which Kubrick directed. Not to mention the Zohar as well.

@GamingWithSpoons

11 күн бұрын

@@quiddity131 Xenogears is a giant 2001 a Space Odyssey Not as does Xenogears the Zohar is clearly inspired by the monolith from 2001 A space Odyssey. He was also a fan of Arthur C Clarke and Robert Heinlein books as well.

The comment that the end game elevates because it is dominated by the strong voice actors on that cast is a powerful truth. There are still some heavy hitters on the voice cast including the great Michael Bell and Michael McConnohie. If Michael Bell isn't voice acting royalty someone needs to get that guy a crown and sceptre quick.

Proto-Omega is an early version of Deus. It is called Omega-1 in the Xenogears opening cutscene.

(B) It does seem like you were positive overall to Xenosaga 2. I personally thought the story was very intriguing in Disc 1, but suffered a little bit in Disc 2, for a lot of the points you mentioned. It felt like the game went for payoff with little setup with certain plotpoints, such as Shion's encounter with Cecily and Cathe. I would really have liked to see some of the scenes in Takahashi's and Saga's original script though. According to Soraya Saga, this was the extent of the changes in the script from their version. It included: Ziggy's past history (as seen in The Pied Piper) U.R.T.V.'s past history (as seen in the Episode II) Shion's past history with Febronia (removed) Jr's rapid growing (removed) Both juvenile and grown-up Jr. switching available in the battle (removed) The ghost of the old Miltia (removed) The death of Sakura (removed) Brief reunion with grown-up Citrine (removed) Gaignun vs Zohar emulators (removed) Jr.'s transformation/overdrive (removed) Jr. & Albedo vs U-DO vs KOS-MOS 3rd armament (removed) Shion's spiritual seeking/witnessing/awakening (removed) The truth about KOS-MOS (removed) Conversation between chaos and the red cloak man (removed) Conversation between Nephilim and the boy with the blocks (removed) An antimatter annihilation of Albedo (removed)

@jedfactor7093

10 күн бұрын

Some of these are in Episode 3, seems at the time Soraya was out the loop and thought that this was going to be the end of Shions arc. The death of Sakura is in the DS version Takahashi supervised. Ghost of old Milita is in Episode III, along with Shions Spiritual awakening and the truth about KOS-MOS. Some things like Jr & Albedo vs U-DO vs KOS-MOS 3rd armament, Juvenile and adult Jr switching in battle, Gaignun vs Zohar emulators, we didnt get though. But as Takahashi wrote and supervised the scenario for Episode III I imagine what we got was somewhat close to their original plan, there is also a lot of mirroring between Xenogears and Xenosaga that seems intentional. The original episode III we never got though as this would have been a totally new arc of the story set after Shions Arc. Heres an interesting interview about the DS remake as well. xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.blogspot.com/p/xenosaga-i-ii-ds.html

(C) I also chanced upon the official Xenosaga Design Materials document, and think that this could be interesting to discuss for the final Xenosaga II episode, especially as it pertains to the game's thoughts about life and death. -------: What do you think about the theme of life and death that flows through the foundation of Episode I? Takahashi: I think living in a certain way is a painful thing. First of all, establishing a compromise between the ego and alter ego is difficult. Accordingly, if there are people that are living, then there are people that choose death. Again, in contrast to a death that is vague...that is something you can only take at face value as a child, death gradually becomes something more familiar as you gain experience throughout life. Then the problem arises of how are you supposed to face that? I thought about it to myself, and wondered how others felt. I'm what you could call not very insistent regarding life, in that there's a part of me that doesn't care if I die. Especially when I was still single. Now, because I was able to start a family and have children, I can't just die anytime. Feelings about death can vary because of things like positions in society, individual ideologies, or your own surroundings. I thought it would be nice to give each character that part of "life and death" that exists in every person. -------: Does that mean that the overall theme is how people compromise even while accepting death? Takahashi: It's certainly flowing through the game's foundation.

@michs7451

12 күн бұрын

-------: Are there any characters that you think have an ideal compromisentowards death? Takahashi: It depends on further story developments, but if I had to choose Inthink it would probably be Shion and Albedo. Albedo has thoughts about how to solve death and where one goes after death. They're emotions everyone has at one point. I hope people will have those thoughts again. I would be especially happy if younger players got that message. -------: What about Shion? Takahashi: With Shion, not everything has been revealed yet, but there is a part of her that tries too much. Perhaps later on, with the way she is, some sort of conclusion regarding her overdoing things will come about. Then the questions will be, how do the people around her react? Will she accept this conclusion? This is what I want to portray in the following games. -------: Will there be dramatic changes to the situations she's caught up in? Takahashi: At first glance, currently Shion's reasons for acting seem positive. But, they actually come from a very negative place. There's a reckless part of her that just continues on so that she can look away from reality and truth. I want to portray her looking back at herself doing this and wondering how she should live her life.

1:58:44 I really thought Casen was going to say Julian Assange lol though I guess this was probably recorded a few days ago

I would LOVE for you guys to talk about gameplay more, Immediately found the talk/ constructive criticism about the gameplay exceptionally compelling. I get that the format is primarily a deconstruction of the storytelling. But if you guys did more one off videos discussing gameplay mechanics etc, or had a "gameplay" episode similar to the developer history episodes. I think that would be amazing.

Thanks for such a great analysis, as someone who beat all xeno games from gears, saga, blade, I definitely rated this the worst one (Xenoblade X coming in second) but not due to story. If you love JR you will love this story. My grips are all subjective. - art style -voice acting (monotone, changed from saga 1) -town/dungeon music (atrocious. How could this have happened?) -exploration (visit same locations) -battle system (battles so long) +story +cutscene music (amazing)

I think somewhat grindier RPGs are ok, but only if the combat is interesting and the rewards feel significant. A huge part of the problem with Xenosaga Ep. 2 is that the levels and the skill point system and such just don't feel as meaningful as the same systems from XS1 did.

I have a twin and I have to say, I could not bare to lose him. I can completely understand Rubedo in this scene, even if Albedo was a bastard. I just rewatched the scene. It's not so simple as Jr losing his twin. He had to be the one to kill him. I don't think I could ever be strong enough to do something like that. For a little while he can't even face Albedo so he's looking at the floor. You can feel the despair in Jr's voice as he begs Albedo not to go. I think Rubedo describes it well "the me that's here, isn't me anymore".

Any reasoning as to why Wilhem's henchman are called testaments? They seem much more like a four horseman analogy especially in the post credit scene with all of them on top of their mechs(steeds) and all having robes colored after them.

@SirEx12345678

12 күн бұрын

One possible reason is that the word 'testament' describes a person's willful intention for what happens to their physical belongings upon death. Each of the testaments in Xenosaga are people who have died, and now through their will and the power given to them through Wilhelm, they help change what happens in the physical realm.

@aidanuzuki3449

11 күн бұрын

I definitely feel like the Testaments are more designed to be a four horsemen analogy than the URTV variants. This foreshadowing from chaos makes it seem like Gaignun is supposed to be one as well, but it really only works for Albedo. Wondering if this is just a misunderstanding of the plot by the team, but it's likely not something we'll ever know.

This is the good kind of clickbait

Quality over quantity.

Keeping up the hype with the xeno series! I havent finished the whole video but I just got to the battle system comment (i agree with mike points) and i will just say it now because i dont know why in all the greatness of xenosaga episode 3... No one even mentions the complete bore of that game combat system. Seeing how Mike commented on this and JRPGs in general, i am pretty sure he will call out how lackluster and repetitive is that one.

Never had a problem with the combat.. it's those dang puzzles that frustrated me the most in Xenosaga II. I'm itching to find out what happens next in the story and everything comes to a crawl because I have to reorganize a few dozen crates to get across a warehouse for the next 15 minutes..

I think the Blade series combat was a much better format for this type of game. It is way less tedious, but when you guys play blade, please watch a tutorial on the combat, otherwise if you dont get a certain mechanic, then the games will be a much less enjoyable experience and the fights will drag on.

@michaelcoraybrown

11 күн бұрын

Hey, man! Just wanted to put this out there if you weren't aware. Xenoblade Chronicles 1 is a game I'm super familiar with. I was all in on the Operation Rainfall movement and called, emailed, and snail mailed Nintendo on a daily basis for weeks to get that game released in North America. I'm a huge fan of it. All of that to say I've played that game and loved it and enjoyed the combat a lot.

@tearzofthefallen6586

10 күн бұрын

​@@michaelcoraybrownI'm 28, so I remember the massive push Operation Rainfall had, though I wasnt involved past watching countless hours of videos on the subject and eventually playing the game once it came out. Glad to see you're a fan of the first game atleast. I know it'll be a while, but I'm looking forward to the inevitable podcasts on the Blade games. I know you dont like 2 very much, so I'm hoping that you can find some of the magic that game has (despite its undeniable issues) in its combat system, its characters, and its story.

Re: issues with jrpgs and fighting systems etc. - I think last years Sea of Stars did an amazing job using the classic turn based battle system effectively. Almost every fight was designed with strategizing and utilizing the battle systems depth (in spite of its simplicity) to make battles feel fresh. Unfortunately, it has the opposite problem of this game. The mechanics are executed well, but the story suffers quite a bit.

imo the main reason why people complain about this game in general is because a lot of people care more about the lore and bigger story beats than the actual content of the story, as well as many people just wanting to play the game for the story rather than the gameplay and that it isn't easy enough to just click through without thinking. this is a problem i've seen in most all of the xeno games. despite the writing being very good in basically all of them and there being loads of great moments with characters and whatnot, once people have gotten a taste and want more, they tend to stop caring that the game is a game and moreso just want the story, which is a shame because all these games are actually fun to play in their own ways. not everything is a hit, but they're far from being just bad games. with the scope of these games, people tend to just want more of that and for everything to keep stacking on top and regain that high they received from seeing everything come together for the first time with their first xeno game rather than understanding that the massive scope of these stories only works and is poignant because of all the smaller scope stories. these massive stories would feel so much more hollow if not for the small moments and the way these stories are actually told

1:43 Dimitri out here being a less likable version of Grahf.

@Xenobears

12 күн бұрын

54:45 yeah, Shion has seen Cecily and Cathe before in Xenosaga I… she saw the both of them in the UMN memory of Miltia dancing happily around a tree as children. At first, it looks heartwarming, but then the illusion is stripped away to show them happily prancing around a dead tree and a dead Febronia in a blasted wasteland-and the spirit of Febronia begs Shion to “free” them. Since Episode I, she’s been expecting to rescue two healthy children (Febronia’s sisters) and have some remnant of a dear friend… only to find out that they’re too far gone and the only thing she can do for them is end their pain.

There are some nice moments in this game, mainly the cutscenes. The main problem is the grindy battle system, voice acting, and terrible background music, and some of the visuals. Sure its good, but it could have been amazing.

It would be interesting to see you guys discuss a jrpg from a franchise that you haven’t touched yet. Maybe a Tales game, Star Ocean, or Persona/SMT.

@quiddity131

12 күн бұрын

I hope they touch upon Chrono someday too, even if its likely to be shorter than most games they cover.

@jairekambui7738

12 күн бұрын

@@quiddity131 Well I think Mike has already done videos on Trigger and Cross in the past.

Better than people say, sure. Good is a bit of a strong word for Xenosaga 2, though. It's like going from a firm 9 to a 6 if we're being generous. The Albedo backstory, the stuff with Juli/Ziggy/MOMO, and the Proto Omega awakening are the only things that raise it to even that. Even Proto Omega was just a cool scene, but the build-up was pretty lacking when the character who activated it was such a nothing villain.

@j0anbug

12 күн бұрын

i'll give it a 7 honestly. XS2 is still better than a lot of jrpgs even at it's weakest points

@GRAG3R

12 күн бұрын

@@j0anbug facts

The other way around. Old Testament Joshua is Yehoshua, Jesus is Yeshua. 1:53:52

Regarding chaos being or not being Jesus, I was reminded how going forward in XS3, I felt as though the new director/writer seemed to have a basic understanding that this is a series that has religious elements, and almost defaulted into Christianity because he didn't realize Xenosaga was more based around Gnosticism, if he even knew what that was. So things take a really hard 90 degree angle turn into the Christian in a way that feels immensely disconnected with the series up until that point. I'm no expert though, so Casen's insight into the religious specifics should be interesting when it comes to this, I wonder if he'll feel the same way!

@aidanuzuki3449

11 күн бұрын

Gnosticism is not the only Christian heresy that Xenosaga bases its concepts in if that helps some.

@aidanuzuki3449

11 күн бұрын

Also there is Christ imagery and allegory throughout the entire series, so not really out of left field.

Yes, Chaos is totally Jesus Christ! 😂🎉

@aidanuzuki3449

11 күн бұрын

This is actually incorrect and is one of the most misunderstood aspects of the story.

@leoncrus

9 күн бұрын

Play the 3d part. You will be very disappointed.

@leoncrus

9 күн бұрын

@@aidanuzuki3449do you like the twist in 3d part or not?

EDIT: (completely disregard this comment. Im being a jerk for literally no reason) It's INSANE to me that you think you can do an accurate story analysis when you stubbornly refuse to read the dang UMN database. The writing isnt VAGUE, it just assumes you actually utilize the information given to you. Which you dont. So you end up confused and your audience ends up frustrated.

@michaelcoraybrown

7 күн бұрын

Criticism of this kind isn't helpful if you don't point out what point was made that was incorrect. Also, I quite often have looked at the database and Xenosaga Wiki. I'm not sure why you are saying I refuse to do it. Where has it ever been said that we refuse to look at it?

@smashbrandiscootch719

7 күн бұрын

@@michaelcoraybrown That is entirely fair. And I'm being entirely unfair. This is entirely me being immature and taking out unrelated stress on strangers on the internet in back-to-back comments. That's on me, and I sincerely apologize for wasting your time with my nonsense.

@michaelcoraybrown

7 күн бұрын

@@smashbrandiscootch719 I am sorry for whatever it is you are going through. Life is full of unfairness and stress and pain, and I hate to see you going through it. I support you in what you are struggling through. And I want to add that I'm not against receiving criticism. If my response made it seem like I was closed to your point of view, I apologize. I really wanted some clarification on what it is we got wrong. If it was related to the whole "Y data" thing, I get it. I wasn't happy to learn how off I was on that particular point, either. The unfortunate truth I've had to accept as I've continued producing this show is that no matter how well-researched I am, no matter how much I look into dev history or lore databases, I will literally always, without fail, miss something. It's infurating to me, but it's something that I simply always prove to be true. That's why we approach these podcasts as discussions rather than dissertations or lectures. I learn as much from my commenters and guests as I do from my own research. I try to visualize the audience sitting around us in a circle for a book club session. Everyone's input is welcome, and there will be things they interpreted, realized, or knew that I couldn't have come up with on my own. I value that a lot.

@smashbrandiscootch719

7 күн бұрын

@@michaelcoraybrown I think you responded in a way that was open and honestly, you gave the comment more attention than it deserved. The silliest thing about the whole thing is that my criticism was based on my own misunderstanding of what you both were saying. You replying to me like a human being when I didn't show you the same courtesy sort of showed me how much of a jerk I was being. In the future, if I have any **VALID** or **LEGITIMATE** criticism, I will endeavor to present it in a respectful way. You guys are humans. Not only that, you both have real lives, jobs, families, etc. You both do your due diligence and spend a lot of time to make your analyses informative and entertaining. I am so sorry that I insulted that and I am embarrassed over my behavior. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to properly apologize for that. I will be better. Thank you.

Good story? Sure, it has some really strong points. Good game? Ehhhh... it starts out fine enough but gets more tiring the longer it goes. The Omega System is especially grating, and I got more game overs there than the whole rest of the game combined.

I played through this game 1 time and I will never play through it again. The battles were painfully slow and completely unengaging. At some point I got certain skills and discovered a loop so I would never lose a battle. As bad as that is, the fights are so slow that doing the exact same thing for the last 1/3rd of the game or more was better than dying and wasting a lot of time on a boss. The fact this was possible points to how terribly thought out the battle system was. Also, no I don't remember how to do this. That was 20 years ago when this game came out and I haven't touched the game since.

@jedfactor7093

10 күн бұрын

Same, the battles are a painful slog, I just watch the cutscenes on youtube now.

*reads title* *thinks on how this guy hates a game like xc2* Yeah. No. Lmao. No, it's not even close.

Have in mind that the average player (and certainly those who didn't like the game), was very unlikely to have the level of knowledge and comprehension required to really understand what these games are about. For a teen player it was just another "cool scifi" japanese rpg pew pew robots cool scenes game. Think about it, you play something that looks nice but you don't really grasp whats going on which makes it boring, the battles are long and repetive, the characters look less animu than the first for weeb standards, it is kind of underwhelming. And this was the same year (2004) where the ultra famous GTA San Andreas came out, kids went there and didn't really care much about an rpg that required thinking. I was around 20 the first time i played Xenosaga 2 (hadn't played Xenosaga 1 or Xenogears) so i have to confess this was my case, i didn't get what was going on, but i really loved the game because of the futuristic space settings and Shinji Hosoe music. It wasn't until years later when i played Xenogears that the story really clicked on me enough to have the will to go into the rabbit hole that is understanding these themes. This led me to replay Xenosaga but from the first game, i did not understand everything so im glad there was a wiki around plus the xeno guide (forgot the name). Of course your podcasts are like the ultimate analysis and im always finding new things thanks to you guys. I can say these games completely changed my view of the world, they were really an eye opener at least for me.

Marie worship and Yeshua on the nose name drops, what a deep and philosophical piece of work... Oh we've allusioned the Ark, look! The Ark, bros we've made aullusions to it... Freaken gimmie a break man... At least Nier had the decency to be somewhat esoteric to give the illusion of "depth".

@aidanuzuki3449

11 күн бұрын

If you didn't like it, why are you watching? It's not that cool to be cynical. If you played and engaged with the game for more than 5 seconds you'd see that it's more than that.

you're both giant nerdlords so how are you BOTH so attractive 😭 this isn't how neckbeards are supposed to look

@GRAG3R

12 күн бұрын

chill.. most xeno nerds are sexy cause xeno requires depth and complex character to relate and understand