This Tool fan listened to this song for over a decade without knowing anything about the Fibonacci sequence. It was still one of the best songs i'd ever heard...

How much is based on Fibonacci? The duration of the song, the number of seconds in which the singing begin, most of time signature are all Fibonacci numbers, the syllables of the first verse are the numbers of the sequence till 13 and back and all the lyrics refers to spirals. There are many other references that I don't remember, but basically everything is based on Fibonacci here. The really surprising thing is that it wasn't just noise.

@thefourshowflip

2 жыл бұрын

The chorus time signatures cycle between 9/8, 8/8, and 7/8 (987 is the 16th digit in the sequence). That one (I think according to Danny) was not intentional-it just happened to be noticed by one of them after it was written.

It is important to know that the band writes the music first and the vocalist writes the lyrics & melody around the music last. As for the Fibonacci sequence, if I'm remembering correctly, one of the band members pointed it out, then the vocalist used that to construct the lyrics & pacing around it.

The song starts out counting up the fibonacci sequence "golden ratio." The golden ratio in nature "spirals out" into infinity. Hence it started out at"one" and ends up in "infinity" aka "where no one's been."

It's kind of funny to make a song with so much to unpack in, with a vocal line that says "overthinking, overanalyzing seperates the body from the mind...."

It’s kind of funny that Maynard gives the little nugget about the Fibonacci sequence, and then hits you with the lyrics “overthinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind” What I love about this band is that I always learn new things about songs, meanings, double entendres, etc. Not to mention how the lyrics spark discussion and debate on what songs are about. That’s poetry.

I think that the connection to the fibonacci was a happy accident on the part of the instrumentalist that singer/lyricist Maynard then ran with in the way he incorporated his vocal part. I'm not an expert on music theory by any means, but from what I understand there is a section of the song where the instrumentalists (or at least drummer Danny Carey) play a pattern of 9/8 -> 8/8 -> 7/8 and that while practicing/notating the section, they realized that it held this pattern. 987 is a Fibonacci number, and I think the pre-release title of the song was 987, which is the version they would have sent to Maynard for vocals. Once you understand this, Maynard's choice to kind of beat you over the heads with the syllables in the beginning and all the talk of spirals kind of makes sense. As a TOOL appreciator, I think it's at best a stretch to call the song a Fibonacci song and it's probably more accurate to say that an understanding of the Fibonacci sequence can deepen your understanding and appreciation for the ideas being expressed. Maynard himself has said that he wishes he hadn't gone so hard with the syllables, calling the move "Sophomoric" on his part. Great analysis! There is so much about TOOL to love.

@ThaBeatConductor

2 жыл бұрын

Maynard definitely made this song fibonacci on purpose. He actually kind of regrets doing it because it's a little too on the nose. There is an interview of him saying this. I think he said it on JRE.

@hyrum.kramer

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThaBeatConductor as I said in the comment that you replied to, it was the result of a happy accident made by the band. They composed a section that happened to descend in a way that created a fibonacci number. It wasn't even a spiral or anything, it was just 9/8/7. It's like the mathematical equivalent to a Homophone. There is nothing in the actual structure of the song that is based on the fibonacci sequence, all of that was added in lyrically by Maynard. That's the whole point of my comment lmao

@ThaBeatConductor

2 жыл бұрын

@@hyrum.kramer I dunno why i read that as you saying Maynard did it as a happy accident. I guess I should have also read your whole comment. Whoops.

@Tcanderson2

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah he even admitted that it was on purpose and even stated later that he thought it too gimmicky. But definitely on purpose Edit: yeah should have read the rest of your comment. I still think the band did it on purpose too. There’s no way it’s a coincidence that the band wrote music in a Fibonacci sequence on the only song that makes sense for them to.

@hyrum.kramer

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tcanderson2 I don't know what this comment even means. The only thing fibonacci about the song from a musical perspective is the 9/8 8/8 7/8 section, which is not that crazy of a thing to include for a band like Tool, especially because 9+8+7=24 which is the same as just splitting up 3 bars of 8/8 in a weird way. The song has literally nothing else in its musical structure that even vaguely references the fibonacci sequence

Well the chorus is 9/8, 8/8, 7/8 and 987 is also in Fibonacci sequence. Also first verse starts at 1:37 min and can be written 1,618 min and well Golden ratio is 1,618... Each verse is also 55 seconds long and 55 is 11th number in the sequence.

@DieHuff

2 жыл бұрын

There are also all the spiral references. Perfect spirals follow the Fibonacci sequence.

@dan.j.boydzkreationz

2 жыл бұрын

@@DieHuff not all perfect spirals though, as some are incremental spirals, due to a particular angle.

@Vlad2.47

2 жыл бұрын

But spirals found in nature spiral out by the golden ratio.

The whole album in itself is a Fibonacci mind screw.....Lateralus’s title-track’s introduction lasts one minute and 12 seconds and the numbers 0, 1, 1, 2 are the first four in the Fibonacci sequence. The first verse kicks in on 97 seconds, which is approximately 1.618 minutes, i.e. the golden ratio. Each verse is also 55 seconds long, which is the 11th number in the sequence. The syllables in those verses match the sequence too, peaking at 13 (coincidentally, the same number of total album tracks) and then again in a descending order thereafter. Furthermore, the time signature of the song’s main riff is 9/8, 8/8 and 7/8, and 987 is the 17th number in the sequence. The final lines Maynard sings are, ​‘Spiral out. Keep going.’ Following so far? Lateralus, the song is kind of puzzle that signposts the truth of the record - the real one.. To hear it, the Fibonacci pattern must be applied to the songs as a whole, dividing them into two figurative sets, or spirals, and entirely overhauling the tracklisting. THE REAL RECORD starts with Parabol/Parabola and then goes into Schism, Ticks & Leeches, Mantra, Lateralus, Faap De Oiad, The Grudge, Triad, Eon Blue Apocalypse, Reflection, The Patient and finally, Disposition. In that order, each set of two songs in the new sequence add up to 13 (using their original track numbers: 6+7, 5+8, 4+9, 13, 1+12, 2+11, 3+10), with the former 13th track acting as a kind of pivot (‘To swing on the spiral’). In this order also the otherwise choppy, rumbling end of Schism doesn’t feel so jarring and abrupt when it flows into Danny Carey’s virtuosic rhythms on Ticks & Leeches. Another notes how Mantra - a warped sample of Maynard gently squeezing a mewling Siamese cat - sounds like choking, which would tie in with the last lines on Ticks & Leeches, ​‘I hope you choke.’ Largely, the transitions from one track to the next feel neater, and more logical.

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

There's definitely a lot of interesting stuff going on in here. Some of it *feels* like reaching to me but as I'm not Tool and haven't interviewed them about it I don't know for sure. I do like the idea of re-ordering the tracks and is something that I've done on some personal works before. However 13 feels like a random number to do so with. Sure it's a part of the Fibonacci sequence but so is 5 or 8. What makes 13 any more special in the sequence than any other number. You mentioned that two transitions get improved but that seems insufficient to say the whole album needs to get shifted around for. Lastly, I'm mentioned this elsewhere but it keeps coming up -- that 7/8, 8/8, 9/8 time signature idea for the main riff....that's just 4/4 with more steps. Not to mention the groove, melodic phrasing, nor the rhythmic qualities allude to that meter sequence. Everything else is semi-plausible but that one really pushes the boundaries for me. It seems like something shoehorned in if it's intentional or grasping for straws if it wasn't.

@BigBingusBoy

Жыл бұрын

@@CriticalReactions Maynard confirmed this was done intentionally ❤

King Crimson is Tool's biggest Inspiration. Danny Carey is covering Crimson songs with some of the Zappa plays Zappa members.👌😊

I love the song for what it is.... all this math stuff is just the cream on the delicious cake....

When I started playing guitar I was one that became very obsessed with their music. Before that I only knew a couple songs and didn’t have that much of an interest in them. Learning an instrument opened my eyes to how complex and the amount of detail that goes into what they write. All the complexities and concepts based off of psychology and mythology. First time I’ve ever heard a band that’s gone that far in their art. My obsession was more just appreciation for the all hard work. Not the drooling obsessed type that would knock on Maynards door or worship of any kind. Just very appreciative of their work. They clearly appreciate literature that I feel is lacking by society. Reading books can change the perception on the world. They wouldn’t have been able to do what they do without them. If people can see that maybe it’ll inspire them to read books they wouldn’t have considered before. It certainly did me as well as opened my eyes to many other things.

If aliens ever find us I want them to hear this

One of my favorite songs from one of my all-time top 10 albums. I think both are absolute masterpieces, and this song in particular grew on me a lot over time. When I first heard Lateralus I was more attracted to songs like The Grudge and Parabol/Parabola, but now it's probably close between The Grudge and this for my favorite on the album. It does such a great job of summing up Tool as a band: the phenomenal drumming, the groovy bass, the uber-crunchy riffs and textural guitars, MJK's dynamic vocals, the highly philosophical lyrics that's enhanced by a structure that patiently builds to a climax that almost seems to enact precisely what the lyrics are saying. It doesn't get much better than this IMHO, so even though it's not really math rock I'm really glad you got to hear it... now you just need to hear the whole album! As for the connection to the Fibonacci sequence, the only overt musical connection is the vocal rhythm you noted, though I seem to recall hearing that there's something in the time signatures that plays with it but I can't remember what it was supposed to be. More than the vocal rhythms or any time signatures though I think the significance of the sequence is as metaphor for what the lyrics are describing, of "spiral out, keep going," of being open to discovering new things and going where no one's been, of being more in touch with our emotions/intuitions and not overthinking everything. I've always thought there was an interesting contrast between the lyrics talking about embracing the random in a song that makes use of a mathematical model (typically thought of as being extremely rational/intellectual) that describes that kind of chaos!

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

You got me wanting more Tool with that description of what they do best. As for the math behind it, I was pointed to a video by quite a few people (shouldn't take long to find it in these comments) that showed a few ways numbers from the sequence are used. They all sound good except the that chorus is written in 9/8, 8/8, 7/8 which is 987, a number in the pattern. I dunno about you, but the chorus doesn't feel like those meters AND that's just 4/4 with extra steps 😅 That one seems like a stretch to me. Otherwise there's some cool things in that video everyone is linking me.

This makes us all so happy. Thank you.

Time is 9/8, 8/8, and 7/8. The it shifts to 5/4 measure counted as 10/8 - like this 123 123 1234 123 123 1234, first bass hit on the 32nd note prior to the 1 count for the first part of the measure (I'm sure that's why you were stuck on 4/4 and 3/3).

Love it man. Great analysis. Spiral out 🤘

Mathematic enough for me 😉 Loved the analysis 👌

Dude please do more tool! Rosetta Stoned or Descending would be amazing and you’ll be blown away by the time signature shifts in those songs.

@RosettaStoned462

2 жыл бұрын

Yas!

@johncarpenter3751

2 жыл бұрын

pushit live off the Salival album

@muttbull

2 жыл бұрын

Right in Two!

if you let it go, you will enjoy and respect this band as a whole piece

Black 1 then 1 white are 2 all I see 3 in my infancy 5 Red and yellow then came to be, 8 reaching out to me 5 Lets me see 3 There is 2 so 1 much 1 more And 2 beckons me 3 to look through to these 5 infinite possibilities 8 As below, so above and beyond, I imagine 13 Drawn outside the lines of reason 8 Push the envelope, 5 watch it bend 3

Here's a fibonacci pattern with the syllables in the intro verse: "Black (1) Then (1) White are (2) All I see (3) In my infancy (5) Red and yellow then came to be (8) Reaching out to me (5) Lets me see (3)" I suck at counting meter so I can't comment on time signature patterns.

being a composer myself.. with tool, you need to let it go coz there are just too many patterns.. it does my head in! its brilliance really.. so fricken inteligent. best band ive ever known!

Yay!

Damn. You’ve done dredg. Tool. And between the buried and me. All my fav bands. Kudos sir.

@RosettaStoned462

2 жыл бұрын

You have good taste in music!

20:20 Actually the Main Melody did came back, in the outro build up.

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

There's a lot of layers to this song that I missed. I am glad that the main melody came back. That outro seemed to encompass a lot of the song's various elements and I was hoping I might have just missed that rather than it being omitted.

There's a lot of time-specific references to the phi angle/ratio, which relates to Fibonacci.

the 13 is the "as below so above and beyond i imagine" line

I think still reacting to the song but doing it outside of the theme week was a good idea

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

It was the only way I could see to handle the situation without upsetting anyone. It was a pretty cool track though so I'm glad I got to do it.

Glad you are trying Tool. That being said, Dirty Loops has a new Ep out.

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

I have been keeping up with their music videos but hadn't heard about an EP. I certainly gotta check that out.

For those interested in the details of the song: m.kzread.info/dash/bejne/p4N8zceBYrnHdZM.html

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

That was wild. I was correct that it is mostly found in the vocal work but it is cool that they ended up structuring the music so that the vocals came in an important time as well making the verses the right length. I'm a bit iffy on that 9/8, 8/8, 7/8 concept regarding the chorus. I've mentioned that time signature isn't super strict, that any musical passage could be written in any time signature, so it's very possible that the chorus does follow that 9-8-7 concept. But the resulting time feel doesn't suggest this and that's honestly just a convoluted way to write a song in 4/4. It doesn't detract anything from the song, but it does feel a bit reaching 😅

There's also a vocal section in 21 syllables

Finally!

Nice reaction dude! Please react to Lost Keys + Rosetta Stoned, their most Toolest song !!

The time signatures are actually 9/8 and 7/8 for a lot of it.

@swingonthespiral

2 жыл бұрын

It shifts a lot, but 3 is a good way to follow it

I think it would have been awesome if the whole tone difference between each sung note also added up to the number of syllables in that sequence. For example this is how it is currently: Black (1) G (0) then (1) G (0) White are (2) A, G (1) all I see (3) A, F, G (3) in my infancy (5) A, F, G, A, G (5) red and yellow then came to be (8) G, F, G, F, E, F, D, E (8) reaching out to me (5) A, F, G, A, G (5) lets me see (3) G, F, D (3) You can see how it already almost matches up. When we get to the next verse though, it loses that pattern. I think that's a missed opportunity to really weave the theme in tighter. Or maybe there's a different underlying pattern to the other verses. I haven't really looked into that.

🤟🤟

"It's got a swing in there". Then it all makes sense

Should listen to this incredibly underrated band, Zebulon Pike, for your "math rock" week. Id more call it "instrumental progressive doom", but I know you like interesting arrangements.. try "A Fragile Portal".... long, but heavy and lots of parts that paint a picture. Cheers.

The Fibonacci sequence is sort of tongue in cheek. The tool tards really run with it though. I love the band and their music and have for many years and hold a special place in my heart for other reasons but some of these tool fans are Simply something else

@TheBlackfall234

2 жыл бұрын

you know, the type of tool fan youre talking about... i have a feeling those are typical people whos first venture into more complex music is tool and tool are masters of staying catchy while having complex rhytm and such - but they are not as insanely complex as most people claim, compared to other Progressive music like Animals as Leaders or something. Its like those people just found the joy of complexity for the first time and now they are just getting a little ahead of themselfs :D That makes tool fans look like wannabe-intellectuels. Not that they are trying to be that, but they come over as such because for the masses its usually mindblowing when a song isnt just nonsense and suddenly lyrics from a Song like Vicarious come around as super deep and complex, while id say they are pretty straight forward and easy to comprehend. They are basically like the "apparently" kid :D Learned something new and now they cant hold back. I myself think tool are true genuises, but i think there are better examples of pointing that out then "the lyrics are so deep" and "the song is fetucini spagethhi".

goat status.

The Grudge, its a must

There is actually a lot of different time signatures going on in this song, including 6/4 which a lot of people confuse with 4/4. Anyway, there is a lot more to this song's adherence to the Fibonacci Sequence than you might think. Here are a couple of videos that will show just how much: How TOOL Used Math To Create Lateralus: kzread.info/dash/bejne/p4N8zceBYrnHdZM.html ..and.. following along: kzread.info/dash/bejne/d6ttlZt6oJOxkag.html. And this is a good one to watch beforehand if you ever do a reaction to TOOL's - 46&2: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z6qjxq2QecacY5s.html.

The vocals sentencing is based on the fibonacci sequence, but... Also the drums time-meters never exit the fibonacci sequence. Every meter is within the sequence.

Also, this has probably been said, but the chorus is in 9/8+8/8+7/8, ie 987, Justin, the bassist came up with this riff and Danny was the one who noticed that 987 was a number in the Fibonacci sequence, which is what “spiraled” the song into being so based on the Fibonacci sequence. But there’s a lot more to do with the concept than just the lyric syllables in the verses. It’d be easy to just take the sequence and map out time signatures that correspond. But honestly, it would sound like pretentious shit. The magic of Tool is taking these complexities and making them work seamlessly in a song that an average non-prog non-math rock fan can listen to and live and not even realize what’s happening under the surface. That’s why you were underwhelmed. Because to the ear it still sounds good and catchy and smooth. And that is a hell of a hard line to walk.

Winter is here, Jon Snow breaks down Tool.

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

I haven't see a Jon Snow comparison since I started growing my hair out but I'll tell ya, it still gets a chuckle out of me because yeah......I can kinda see it 😂

Leprous - Nighttime Disguise please

The riff at the beginning is in 9 8 7, which is the 16th sequence of the fibonnaci sequence. So ur 4/4 theory is wrong

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair, assuming they are using a 3 bar phrase of 9/8, 8/8, 7/8 or a 4 bar phrase of 9/8, 8/8, 7/8, 8/8 both of those are equal to 4/4. 9/8 is 4/4 with an extra 8th note and 7/8 is 4/4 missing an 8th note so those two cancel each other out. And 8/8 is just 4/4 with different subdivisions. Additionally, the groove of the beginning is 4/4, there aren't any moments of judder that would come from emphasizing a downbeat that is half of a beat early or late. So while the band is free to envision or write this section as the 987 idea, the resulting music isn't indicative of those changes. Tool is in the position of being both the composer and the performer so they can make the sheet music as unorthodox as they wish but any composer writing this part for a performer would probably not do the same as the purpose of time signature is to inform the performer of the groove or pulse of the section and the 987 idea hides that.

Tool/Meshuggah are Avant Garde/Art Metal bands... Polymeters

There are basically thesis papers worth of information on this song alone. So much out there.

The verse is 5

When listening to tool the lyrics are important. Maynard is the 4th member of the band and not the singer or frontman.

What, you haven't heard of tool? You would love tool. Yeah, you're a tool guy.

@progperljungman8218

2 жыл бұрын

Sure has 😊 kzread.info/dash/bejne/i4Slxq2ofcjLc7A.html

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

So far I'm 50/50 on them. I think they do what they do very well but I haven't heard anything that's really stood out to me yet. I've only heard this and Pneuma though so not a lot of exposure to them. I've been told I've probably heard some popular radio tracks from them. I need to dive into that one of these evenings and check.

@pascalg16

2 жыл бұрын

@@CriticalReactions You forgot about The Pot. From a livestream, it was rather groovy.

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

Good catch. I totally forgot about that one.

@Heatwave9000

2 жыл бұрын

@@CriticalReactions What would stand out to you though considering you've probably listened to lots of music? Can't really judge a band based on two songs.

The verses are in 5 not 3

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

Went back and listened, yup def 5. When I was talking about the 3 and/or 6 pulses I was mostly referring to the chorus and everything in the last third of the song (mostly because I forgot about the verse 😅). The vocals are weird about the rhythm, since their doing their own Fibonacci thing, but the drums are definitely in 5/8 (my guess based on the tempo). I wish I had talked a bit more about the verse and the way they layered things and provided contrast with the rest of the song (as the verse is easily the quietest and most spares section) but it is what it is. I can remember a lot but not everything. 😀

Wow, I started getting chill's around 14 minute mark. From how well the assessment of the song and the way it was being described, which isn't easy by no means. Was so good and spot on. Is so incredible, that it gave me that feeling I mentioned. I'm not sure if how impressed I am is legit. Cuz you may have know about this song long before now. And Im just gullible. Or if you are just doing an amazing assessment. I'm hoping it's legit. I'm posting this before hearing the rest of the video. If this is legit. Wow. Way to go.

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

I've been very transparent in the past regarding songs that I've heard before. Most recently was a Talking Heads song that I didn't recognize the title of but had definitely heard in passing and I commented about it during the reaction. My entire analysis here is based off of this single, first time listen to the song. I have been linked to Polyphonic's analysis since making this and I'm finding I've only scratched the surface with my own -- but that's the difference between a first time listen and doing some hard research/digging into a song. 😀

@kevinbrown9478

2 жыл бұрын

@@CriticalReactions It's cool, like I said I got chill's. And that's no lie. At the 14 minute mark. Like I said I paused it to write that. And if someone were to watch it and pause there. Your assessment was so good. You even stopped to backtrack and be clear about what you were saying. And I was very impressed. And that's sincere. I think I have seen a previous reaction on something else from you before. But man, when I paused it. All I could think was damn. This guy is next level in observation skills. Or has previous knowledge and is one upping other reactors (if so I was thinking... I hope other reactors see this cuz they could learn something from him). I settled on this first one. I think you were the real deal. And I was impressed when it was all said and done. Probably should've commented again to say that, my bad. Maybe I was taken back by how it seemed as if you literally think( as in thought processing terms) about things laid out just like I do. Cuz it felt like you were talking directly to me. And that's amazing when you consider it's a video recording not a one on one conversation. But it felt like one to me. And that's a job well done if you ask me. (Hopefully you aren't long winded like me and annoy yourself at times because of it, if you do actually think in a similar way as me. LOL) Thanks for the reply brother, nice work. Hope I see more TOOL reactions in the future from you.

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kinds words. They mean a lot to me and let me know that I'm on the right track with this project. As for our thought processes, yup they're quite similar. Stream of consciousness, just talking my way through a subject is how I learn best and I'm extremely verbose and never know when to stop talking when I get excited about a topic. :)

Hey, it's X people...

@bryan disjointed-disoriented feeling, this part you are mentioning represents birth (hence the womb-like blood-flow sounds and muffled heartbeats in the intro !

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I don't think I pulled out those specific sounds when I listened the first time but I can hear them now.

You’re 100% spot on that this wasn’t intended to be a “Fibonacci” song. The lyrics were written and then after the fact the band realized the vocals had that pattern

@MaddSpazz2000

2 жыл бұрын

Actually Maynard confirmed it was intentional, I believe he said it was a sophomoreish move lmao. If Lateralus is sophomorish, then most bands/songs haven't gone past Pre-Kish imo.

@sevenduster27

2 жыл бұрын

@@MaddSpazz2000 You can look it up on KZread, “Maynard talks to Joe Rogan about the Fibonacci sequence”, It’s pretty cool

@MaddSpazz2000

2 жыл бұрын

@@sevenduster27 I did what he said wasnt intentional was the time signature changes of the chorus

The verse is 5/8

Hello, really enjoyed the video, tho i have one suggestion - could you stop the song when you're about to analyse or comment something? Because when you try to speak on top of the track, it gets too distracting and i can't hear neither the song nor your commenting. Good luck!

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. I'll do some audio re balancing and see about dropping the song volume down a bit to make space for my voice. I won't be pausing the video though. That does a huge disservice for the art. Any disruption is going to mess with the flow and atmosphere and vibe that a composer went to painstaking lengths to create. And there isn't any way to really get that back after a full on stop. Imaging listening to a song with an ad break every 2-3 minutes; that's no way to understand a song and it would drastically change the way I understood it which is going to negatively impact my analysis of it. I hope that all makes sense and puts a little bit of reasoning behind my seemingly rare decision to let a song play fully through during the reaction.

Us Tool fans need to stop overhyping the band. We can just get too excited about their music 🤷. New listeners expectations will never be met with this constant gas. I find that I need to listen to their tracks many times to really understand their music. Lots of people say that they don't like a track till they've replayed it many times. It is what it is. They will always be one of my favourite bands and I'm not even a huge metalhead

Over thinking, over analyzing

I protested a little upon seeing this song in the poll due to its tenuous link to 'math'. That being said, I still like the song a lot, and I'm not upset at seeing a reaction to it. I think I've seen a few too many channels become a bit overwhelmed when the Tool fanbase kinda force their music onto reactors. Which is kinda funny because all their songs sound the same... *hides*

@Poemiserable

2 жыл бұрын

It’s okay that you’re wrong. 🤗

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

I don't have much exposure to them but the three songs I've heard certain have similar vibes to them. In my head I have a specific "Tool" sound attributed to the band, much like Metallica has a specific sound. I don't think it's wrong to say that all of Tool's songs sound the same, since most bands tend to have a specific sound that they become most comfortable in.

@Poemiserable

2 жыл бұрын

​@@CriticalReactions Well, you'd also be wrong then. It's because words have objective meanings even if our intent when using them is subjective. So, if you mean to say that 'Tool or Metallica have a distinctive quality to their music which is instantly recognisable', then you have a point. But, you'd need to say something more akin to that to be making that point. If you instead say that 'Tool songs just sound the same', then you're making a different, incorrect point; even unintentionally and even though the two sentiments sounds similar upon a cursory inspection. It's to do with where you're choosing to place the emphasis or the weight of your word. I write for a living so linguistics are my jam. Tool's songs are recognisable compared to the songs of other musicians, but they're in no way 'samey' or 'failing to be unique' in relation to each other. The issue we're having here is, I suspect, perfectly semantic. I'm holding you both to the exact words you've chosen to use because the words are misleading as you've chosen to write them, at least they are if I'm understanding what you're both trying to say fully. Because, I don't believe either of you are saying that Tool songs 'literally sound the same'. I think you're saying that, as a body of work, they have similar qualities that set them apart from the music/styles of other groups. So, I think you're linguistically wrong, but not necessarily wrong with your meaning or intent. If, on the other hand, the claim is being made that their songs simply sound the same, then you're just wrong-wrong. To illustrate the point, when anyone hears any new genre of music for the first time, they tend to fail to notice the nuance between different groups/artists and feel like the genre is 'samey'. Then, when they've listened enough to appreciate the nuance, they stop making the claim that the genre is 'samey' because they realise that it isn't. But, all throughout the process, they're able to understand and appreciate that the genre itself does sound different to other genres. So, if that person said, 'X genre is samey', they'd be largely mistaken because there is likely an incredible gamut of sub-genres and distinctive qualities within that genre that they're failing to recognise, because they're ignorant as to what those qualities actually are. Whereas, if that person said, 'X genre has a unique sound', that wouldn't be incorrect. They wouldn't be saying that the whole genre is the same or identical, only that it has something that unifies it and separates it from other genres. They're almost equivalent statements, it's just that one is correct use of the language to illustrate their meaning and purpose, and one is inaccurate. If the genre in question were actually 'samey' then you wouldn't be able to take a huge fan of said genre, expose them to new music they've never heard before and have them accurately and consistently be able to categorise it into subcategories in line with other fans of the genre. It's a subtle distinction but it is a factual, objective, measurable, and consistent one. Likewise in this instance, I believe you both appreciate that Tool sounds different to other bands, but when you instead choose to verbalise or articulate that Tool songs 'sound the same'; you're not stating that Tool sound different to other styles of music and so are distinctive, you're saying that their music or body of music is similar in sound or 'samey'. They're similar observations but one is objectively wrong and the other isn't. I would imagine that, as a composer, you get what I'm saying. I'd be shocked if any of this is news to you. It shouldn't be.

@PLJogging

2 жыл бұрын

@@Poemiserable Absolute madness that you expect anyone to read through this. In terms of my previous post, I guess saying their songs all sound the same was a little immature. It's probably more accurate to say that when I listen to a Tool song for the first time, I have a pretty good idea of what is going to happen. They stick to a formula. I've seen people literally leave comments on other channels like 'you need to react to every Tool song to understand them' and I just feel like trying to analyse each track from a fresh perspective will weild massively diminishing results over time.

@Poemiserable

2 жыл бұрын

@@PLJogging Don't worry, I don't assume/expect anyone will read anything and I don't care if they do or not. Having read your further points to elaborate, it's clearer what you mean now. I disagree with your opinion vehemently and you're objectively wrong. I don't think I'll be able to convince you of that and the only way for you to become convinced of that would be to explore the subject matter to a much greater degree yourself, so I'll leave you to either do that or not, as you prefer. All the best.

Tool is great and all but some fans overhype tool a bit.

DUDE! 41 minutes?! Not even gonna waste my time watching a 41 minute reaction to a 9:25 song. Gotta condense it down.

@pascalg16

2 жыл бұрын

It's not just a reaction, Brian analyses the song as well. If you don't want that go watch the other lame guys then.

@jam1870utube

2 жыл бұрын

@@pascalg16 there are other composers, musicians, vocal coaches whose reactions are less than half the time as his. Seriously, no offense, but it’s just too long.

@CriticalReactions

2 жыл бұрын

I totally get that my content isn't for everyone. Hopefully you at least stayed for the 9 minute reaction to the song but if not that's cool as well. After listening to a song I break down the elements of what I heard and try to tie it all together into a larger idea or theme that the song is working within. It's a bit different than the average reaction format but that sets me apart. For better or worse, the reaction genre of KZread videos is highly saturated so there are plenty of other reactions out there that would fit what you're wanting out of them. Variety is good, especially since we all have our own biases in entertainment. Thanks for dropping by and enjoy your day.