Thank you, dear Dongryul. I like this lecture. And also I love your music!

@dongryulleecomposer

8 күн бұрын

Thank you deeply, Dmitry.

Thanks. It seems to me that a characteristic of not only ferneyhough, but most contemporary classical music composers, is their irregular treatment of rhythm. If I had to define the way ferneyhough described above in one word, it would be "superimposition"(중첩). It's like layers upon layers, right? For example, Hosokawa has a series of works called "vertical time studies". I intuitively understood it to mean that the rhythm was developed vertically rather than horizontally (time development). Here, the rhythm unfolds vertically, which seems to have something in common with ferneyhough's rhythmic superposition (multiple layers). So for other contemporary classical music composers...(Lachenmann, Jarrell, Saunders....etc ), how do they create their own unique irregular effects...do they have a way of controlling their own rhythms? Or is this concept of rhythmic superimposition common to most composers...and they each apply their own individual methods underneath?

@dongryulleecomposer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment. I will reply in the range of my understanding and knowledge. In music in general, there can be two ways to approach Rhythm. As you mentioned here, one would be additive, and the other way would be subtractive. I think these concepts are what you mention here as horizontal and vertical. This is what Lutoslawski explained in his book. However, there can be other ways, like using aleatoric cues (Lutoslawski) or individual tempi juxtaposed together (Birtwistle). The additive way can be explained as adding small rhythmic values, e.g., 32nd notes, 64th notes, etc. You can think of Messiaen (Quartet for the End of Time), or Ligeti’s approaches in general. Please note that in most of cases composers use binary rhythmic values (1/2, 1/8, 1/64 etc), not to use overly complex notation in this case. The subtractive way is subdividing the basic beat into smaller subdivision beats, especially by using nested tuplets. It is largely explored by Stockhausen, and also by Xenakis, and here, Ferneyhough. Ferneyhough developed this way of subdivision, by using different timelines and by juxtaposing them in a single “master timeline,” using those complex rhythmic notations. There are other ways that composers approach the rhythmic domain. Carter and other new music composers (e.g., Lindberg) use metric modulation frequently, which I have a lecture here on my channel, and also meter changes (Stravinsky) help to break the rhythmic senses. Unfortunately, I don't know much about the music of Jarrell and Saunders. I believe Lachenmann uses both ways.

@lkh0120

Жыл бұрын

​@@dongryulleecomposer Thank you for your detailed answer It is very interesting to me that you divided the control of rhythm into the concepts of addition and subtraction. I understood the concept of subtraction as breaking down the existing rhythm into smaller and smaller pieces...(You already showed the method in the video with Ferneyhough, didn't you?). But in the case of addition, it doesn't make direct sense to me to understand what you've described. Could you explain a little more specifically how you can distinguish between addition and subtraction? Also, when you say binary rhythmic values, am I to understand that you mean rhythms divided by even numbers? One more thing...for subtraction, it's more intuitive to think of it as a division, a division, after all, and I'd like to know in what way you're referring to it as subtraction.

@dongryulleecomposer

Жыл бұрын

@@lkh0120 Yes, I think division and subtraction are the same here. For the binary rhythm, you are correct. By using even numbered rhythmic values, you don't need to use tuplets. An example of rhythmic addition would be Messiaen. If you add a quarter value to an existing rhythmic unit, e.g., a half note, a quarter note, and a half note: this will become a half note connected with an 8th note, a quarter note connected with a 16th note, and a half note connected with an 8th note. This example is from the Messiaen's book, "my musical language." (Four 8th notes / Four 16 notes / Four 8th notes becomes Five 8th notes / Five 16th notes / Five 8th notes by adding a 1/4 of each rhythmic value)

Thank you so much for this lecture. Do you recommend any book is good for practicing complex rhythms?

@dongryulleecomposer

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment. There are not many books for practicing rhythms, but here is one by Paul Hindemith, "Elementary Training for Musicians"

@PhucNguyen-yn7ng

Жыл бұрын

@@dongryulleecomposer Thank you so muc. I will search for that!

@dongryulleecomposer

Жыл бұрын

@@PhucNguyen-yn7ng If this is about compositional techniques, also check Olivier Messiaen's "The Technique of My Musical Language"

@PhucNguyen-yn7ng

Жыл бұрын

@@dongryulleecomposer Thank you so much for you recommendation. I am very appreciate your help!

Very interesting. Does this information come from Ferneyhough himself, or is this through personal analysis?

@dongryulleecomposer

Жыл бұрын

It came from the Ferneyhough's book.

@christophedevos3760

Жыл бұрын

@@dongryulleecomposer I see. Which book if I may ask?

@dongryulleecomposer

Жыл бұрын

@@christophedevos3760 This one: Collected Writings - Brian Ferneyhough (Harwood Academic Publishers, 1995) Unfortunately, it is out of print now..

@christophedevos3760

Жыл бұрын

@@dongryulleecomposer Thanks. I will look into it.