“Mallory and Irvine would’ve had to have climbed this [the second step]”. Not if they had traversed and taken the Colouir route Norton had taken the day before.

@Alex10DelPiero29

2 жыл бұрын

this is so simple! why should have the climbed a completely uknown route whereas Norton had traversed and almost summited?

@Alex10DelPiero29

2 жыл бұрын

@@BS2Dos there was Norton's. He was not able to summit but he had arrived where no one else had arrived before. So If I were Mallory, I would have climbed through the same way, trying to do better than him. Norton was with them, they spoke about difficulties and what to do differently for sure before making the attempt.

@VanishedPNW

Жыл бұрын

Wow is that true? I didn't realize Norton did that route the day before. I always thought he had attempted it at another time, on the 1933 expedition. I actually just listened to "Into the Silence," but in fairness it was my "bedtime audiobook" lol, so I'm sure I missed quite a lot. I'm listening to it again, and it's 28 hours of listening. Either way, *of course* he took that route of what you say is indeed true. Of course he did. It shouldn't even be a debate if Norton, a guy on his expedition whom he is trying to beat, physically climbed the Colouir route the frickin day before. Mallory would NOT have risked his only shot at conquering the mountain by following a route that Norton did not take.

Mallory absolutely would have avoided the second step, all his past experience was as a wall climber, Norton had just nearly summitted avoiding the 2nd step, Mallory had previously commented that the hard part of the whole climb would be the Citadel after the snow patch on the final ascent! Odell's timing seeing them at 1250 would put them way past the first step, and if they weren't taking the ridge route then its logical it was the 3rd step he saw them on. Ankers comments are misleading and show an arrogance that the modern 'route' was the only option, this image of Mallory as a ridge climber needs to be slapped down everytime it comes up

@clebmedia

Жыл бұрын

Yea not sure how you could free climb an overhanging ice cliff with hobnail boots and heavy oxygen canisters. Also how could he think Irvine could do it, even if he could. 100% they they would've gone around. You look at the scale of the second step and I doubt it was even an option for Mallory.

@WellyCoaster

8 ай бұрын

Anker's just going off the expedition reports and accounts from the 24 climbers. In 21,22,23 and 24 Mallory had wrote of using the ridge in journals and expedition books and spoke in meetings with the Alpine club and RGS. Odell said that the ridge was Mallorys intended route that day and that he saw them on the second step. Norton said they attempted the ridge on their last climb. Somervell said he believed they had an accident on the second step. These were the top climbers from the expedition who were on on the North Col before M & I's departure and were saying the same thing.

Conrad Anker is totally wrong. Mallory & Irvine never attempted to climb the second step, they surely went to the Norton couloir. I thing Anker is probably obliged to push the second step theory by his book contract. It's a shame that even after so many years he never rectified his error.

Total bullshit. I have enormous respect for Conrad Anker but now this lie has become mainstream and an argument for why Mallory didn't actually reach the summit.

@ralphbooger4756

2 жыл бұрын

supposedly, over the radio at this day when he did this, he was asked if mallory could have climbed the second step... he answered, yes! although it doesnt matter much as mallory said he would never climb there and most likely took the norton route where odell saw them coming up at the third step.

Michael Tracy makes a compelling argument that Mallory bypassed the second step in a zig zag route. He had written in a letter that a ridge route was impossible so why insist he took it? Odell could not have seen them at the first step because it is blocked from sight from the spot Odell saw them..

@WellyCoaster

11 ай бұрын

Mallory was talking about the lower section of the NE ridge saying it was too long and barred by the pinnacles, he wanted to access the upper part of the ridge from the North Col. The two attempts in 1933 both tried through the zig zag area and called this impossible, they couldn't identify a line through it for future attempts and were forced onto Nortons route. A third attempt was planned to take the ridge direct but the expedition ended due to weather.

We will probably never know which route Mallory and Irvine attempted. If someone could just find some evidence either way. Just an oxygen bottle, pack, or something along either route would be amazing. As many people who've searched above the 2nd step and found nothing makes me think more and more that they did take the zig zag route and bypassed the 2nd step from below. Even the location of Mallorys body and the lack of damage to it showing that his fall was lower down and not up high where the ice ax was found below the NE ridge makes me believe that they were returning from trying Nortons route. It is an interesting mystery and I would love to see it solved. One thing is for certain, the entire 1924 team were a brave, tough, and capable lot.

@Alex10DelPiero29

2 жыл бұрын

I am sure they did not climb the modern route and not even close to it. Why should have they? Norton was very close to the summit the day before hence if I want to summit, I am going through the same way and try to do better than him. They zig zagged the 2nd step and arrived at the base of the pyramid, where Odell claimed to have seen them at 12.50. I think there is not much discussion here, unless we think Odell had an halluciation or was just lying.

@charlesmitz5239

2 жыл бұрын

Agree. Mallory was probably capable of doing it but he knew that Irvine was less experienced (but superbly athletic). I'm sure that would have factored into his route selection.

@Ronin-ke5wm

11 ай бұрын

Totally agree with you. Mallory and Irvine would have gone along the yellow band, from the 1st step, and then zig zagged up towards the 3rd step. That ties in exactly with what Odell would have seen. Mallory even said he thought the ridge route was impossible, so I'm not sure why people still think he attempted the 2nd step.

@WellyCoaster

11 ай бұрын

@@Ronin-ke5wm The part of the ridge Mallory was referring to was the lower section when they approached from the east in 1921, saying it's to long and blocked by the pinnacles. He wanted to access the upper part of the NE ridge from the north col, he spoke of this numerous times to the Alpine Club/RGS, it's in the journals and expedition books. The zig zag area was attempted by both 1933 parties and this was described as impossible, they searched and couldn't identify a line through it, both were forced across the couloir as Norton did.

@kriegenjoyer6913

9 ай бұрын

​@@charlesmitz5239we know Mallorys body and where it is so we can get a bit out of that

Mallory did not attempt The 2nd Step. The previous failed attempts by Norton and Somerval showed the way up. To the Coloir and a zig zag route to the top of the 3rd Step, which is where Odell saw them 1:30pm..

@Ronin-ke5wm

11 ай бұрын

100% correct Sir

0:15 - ... _"there's never been a confirmed free climb of the second step_ ..." Well, in 1960 the Chineses supposedly climb there without ladder or fixed ropes. Òscar Cadiach in 1985, Theo Fritsch in 2001 and Conrad Anker in 2007 climb the Second Step without the ladder.

Michael Tracy here on KZread provides some great insight to the discussion of Mallory & Irvine

@czarcastic1458

2 жыл бұрын

His insight is biased

@DiogenesOfDelaware

2 жыл бұрын

@@czarcastic1458 bias is inescapable.

@momo1momo

2 жыл бұрын

Tracy has gone to great lengths using science and historical analysis to support his arguments , can you please explain the nature of his bias and where it has interfered with his assessment of this debate? Thank you.

@Steve_Schiffenhaus

2 жыл бұрын

@@czarcastic1458 everyone has bias - his has the most research, logic, and fact behind it than I’ve seen from anyone else

@kenkaplan3654

Жыл бұрын

@@czarcastic1458 Yes he is but he is thorough and detailed. . It is not bias to believe in a position.

Anyone know what documentary this is from?

I think Anker needs to be more consistent. Not long after Mallory‘s body was found in ‘99, Anker tried to free-climb the second step, couldn’t do it and decided that Mallory couldn’t have either which is a load of bullshit. But here he does it and suddenly Mallory and Irvine did too? Just because he did? 😒 I know lots of others disagree but frankly I feel that the American team desecrated Mallory’s body with what they did to it. Sure, it let them find out the picture was missing which led more to the idea that he and Irvine made the summit but they did more to the body than what was shown in this film seemingly because they *could*. No wonder Mallory’s family and the climbing community at large were so appalled. Irvine WILL be found some day but I hope it’s by someone who will treat his remains with more respect than what Mallory got. Personally though, I believe that Irvine and Mallory were the first to reach the summit. Odell swore to his dying day they were on top of the second step and given his connection to them, I would consider his telling more valid than anyone who is simply going through speculations. But that’s me.

@tjlee9901

3 жыл бұрын

i think they made it but died coming down , of course . people today are doing the same thing

@ulf989

Жыл бұрын

Well, as I understand, Anker DID pretty much free climb the step. I believe he "touched" the ladder once or twice just because it was in the way. Anker was one of the premium free-climbers in the world at that time and it WAS a pretty significant challenge - even with his skill and modern hardware. Reference Mallory with Alpine climbing skills and equipment from the 1920s. No chance whatsoever the 2nd Step was (free) climbable in that era.

See Odell's first reports explaining how they were atop all but 1 step...meaning the 3rd step which is above the 2nd step. More snow back then i'm told. Odell knows what he saw although years later people got him to switch is statements. This sighting was at 1250PM. They had plenty of time to make it to the summit, even with the passing squall. Unfortunately, geo politics enters the picture, the Chinese and others, who seem to NEVER want it known that Mallory and Irving made it to the Summit that fateful day of June 8, 1924. Follow Michael Tracy ..he is impartial at least ....many other seem fixed on outcome.

@kenkaplan3654

Жыл бұрын

Tracy is not impartial. He passionately believes they made it but he makes an incredibly strong, detailed case.

This is rubbish, Mallory and Irvine went below the second step and up the zig zag route on the Norton Couloir. this was actually documented by Odell who filmed their attempt so What Anker is on about God only knows

@redrocker1055

6 жыл бұрын

I'd imagine Mallory would have wanted to traverse it as he was a traverse type climber but from what I've read the traverse onto the face from just above the 1st step is suicidal. But Malory was a man on with singular goal in mind. So know one can really say.

@Sedna063

4 жыл бұрын

Can you show me the video?

@BS2Dos

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed. The theory Mallory by-passed the 2nd step is also supported through written expedition journal and diary entries; all planning records support the view Mallory was always planning to attempt the submit by traversing below the NE ridge and then onto the couloir a la Messner many decades later. It is also highly implausible that Mallory would have attempted the far more difficult 2nd step route given Norton had attained a new high altitude record a few days earlier. Norton also alluded to a possible submit route beyond his own ascent.

@drako3664

4 жыл бұрын

@@Sedna063 go find it yourself

@snappingbear

4 жыл бұрын

You're right. Plus Odell didn't see them on the second step, he saw them near the 1st step and they likely went through the yellow band taking the same route first Norton and later Messner took. The idea they went up the second step is laughable.

It doesn't make any sense. Mallory used a zigzag route instead of steep step 2

@apikecalledmike

4 жыл бұрын

We don't know that - but if so where did Odell see them at 1250 - if you take his account of seeing them as true? You almost have to believe he saw them at the third step - which needs a lot of things going on their favour. Unfortunately all the evidence we have found of the climb is from around the first step.

@ralphbooger4756

2 жыл бұрын

@@apikecalledmike odell in his dispatch to basecamp on the 9th(the day after their attempt) described their last position as "at the final step before the pyramid" at 12:50. this is reasonable if they took the zigzag route. should he have described the first step as the final step as absurd as that would be, then mallory and irvine would have spent 7 hours on a less than 2 hour climb. and it makes no sense that he would describe the second step as the final step, as they would not climb the second step with "alacrity" in 5 minutes.

@czarcastic1458

2 жыл бұрын

He recanted his story

Except all evidence suggests that they planned to traverse below it and take the zig zag route up or the couloir

That secound step would have been a real challenge.. I hope one day they find irvine and the camera.

@kappy1123

2 жыл бұрын

Hi John,it appears as though someone did some 47 years ago. Just stumbled upon this little gem on YT that may give you and MANY others,including myself,some clarity as to what may have really happened.Hard to believe almost 100 years has elapsed and yet,so many are still fascinated and intrigued by the story of Mallory and Irvine to this day.Enjoy,Cheers!kzread.info/dash/bejne/maCBtpJxqtCngJM.html

@dschangodurango7596

5 ай бұрын

According to a member of the 1975 chinese expedition the camera and Irvine have been found ... but the chinese wrecked the camera film due the attempt of developing it.

No he wouldn’t have had to. Do your research

Damn that looks dangerous

I strongly believe they made to the top. It is just a matter of time before we find out.

@Sedna063

4 жыл бұрын

We find out when we meet them in heaven. After all, we would need to find Irvine and hope the camera is intact. Irvine was spotted a few times actually but when expeditions reached the point, there was no corps. Either he was covered by ice, which means we would never find him, or he was blown onto the East Rombuk glacier.

@snappingbear

4 жыл бұрын

@@Sedna063 Do you think the Chinese climber who found "old English dead' that could have been Mallory or Irvine took the camera or told others on his team and they took it? Afterall the Chinese claim to fame is they were the first to summit Everest via the northeast ridge. They would have an incentive to destroy or hide photos proving Mallory and Irvine were first.

@Omega1867

3 жыл бұрын

@@snappingbear I think “old English dead” was Irvine and not Mallory personally because they way the body was described did not match how Mallory was positioned when found. Convenient that the climber who saw the body first died in an avalanche a day later. The other guy’s report is largely ignored. The film “Lost on Everest” sent a team to where the two sightings lined up but there was no body. One climber there speculated that Irvine likely WAS there at one point but was since blown off the mountain and is probably at the bottom of one of the huge crevasses so will likely never be found now.

@WhiteGuysMadder

3 жыл бұрын

Some time has gone by now. But its crazy to see how much technology has involved just in the past 20 years alone. Maybe drones with metal detectors can find him.

@WhiteGuysMadder

3 жыл бұрын

Although I feel the Chinese may have already found him and covered him up

Mallory never made it up that second step -- 1st time there and limited time in the Death zone plus primitive climbing gear equals “ no way “. He may have made the summit but not over the step

@kenkaplan3654

Жыл бұрын

What if they bypassed it.

@wgisgr8

Жыл бұрын

@@kenkaplan3654 they may have- no body knows

@kenkaplan3654

Жыл бұрын

@@wgisgr8 I know. Michael Tracy makes a good case they summited but we probably will never know.

Everyone is saying that Mallory would've taken the same route Norton took. Not true. The fact that Norton did not make it would have been reason enough for Mallory to try a faster way. Going around the 2nd step is a much longer route that he may have well been trying to avoid.

I 💕 Anker almost as much as I love Mallory

If you have to use ladders to climb everest you havnt really climbed it. It's like running a marathon but using a cab when you hit the wall before getting out and finally finishing the course on foot..

@henriparatte132

5 жыл бұрын

So I take it you did climb Everest

@surfinglion2974

4 жыл бұрын

So easy for you to say it, keyboard hero.

@Sedna063

4 жыл бұрын

Well, they still climb everest. Second step is just brutal.

@snappingbear

4 жыл бұрын

I agree and 02 bottles are also a crutch. I salute guys like Messner who climbed Everest via the Norton coulier without oxygen.

@iffatsharminislam7978

4 жыл бұрын

Than u tell, how to go through those routes? Without using ladders, those sherpa should embraces death, according to your philosophy, right?

ok if you all think second step can be bypassed then why the modern expeditions wont do the same.

@1245aryan

3 жыл бұрын

cause the chinese places a ladder on the second step so you don't have to free solo it anymore, if you take the zig zag route now you'd only have rock falling over your head from the people who took the ladder.

@lachyt5247

3 жыл бұрын

With the ladders, second step is the far easier route than the zigzag on the norton couloir.

@tjlee9901

3 жыл бұрын

@@lachyt5247 : also it may not be safe with climbers on the higher route these days .

@chetanphoenix

2 жыл бұрын

Because there are people taking the second step route and they're dropping things down like rocks, oxygen bottles etc.. if you took the bypass route those things would fall on your head.

@dkeener13

2 жыл бұрын

several reasons: 1) with the ladder in place on the 2nd step, the ridge route is much easier 2) the Chinese government will not allow deviation from the main (ridge) route, so anyone doing it will be going rogue 3) anyone climbing below the ridge in modern times would have dozens of climbers a couple hundred feet overhead Also, as a point of fact, the 2nd step HAS been bypassed on many approaches from the North. Reinhold Messner's solo oxygen-less ascent in 1980 being the most famous.