I just about tolerated riding on a DMS. I didn't like the internal decor of blue seat moquette with green stripes grey wall panelling and white ceilings. Yes they were clean and bright colours matching that used on the Merlin and Swift single deckers. But it led to a colder environment. Almost tartan style seat moquette, burgundy and sung yellow ceilings used on Routemasters and the XA/XF was a pleasant colour scheme as was green and the cream ceilings used on RTs and RF/GS single deck types. The RM/RT both gave me a thrilling experience in all aspects engine sounds and all and I couldn't get the same feeling from a DMS. It is only my opinion I'm not just taking a swipe at the type. I've travelled on worse!

We had them on our school route in SE London. The 124 and 124A used to run from Catford/Forest Hill area to Welling, straight past Crown Woods school, which at the time (1972ish) was the largest comprehensive in the country with over 2500 pupils. A couple of weeks before the DMS came into service, we had one parked in the school car park, so that everyone could have a practice at putting 2p in the machine at 3:30. Of course, when they came into service, most of the kids cramming onto the bus at school out time just squeezed past the turnstile!

@ROCKINGMAN

Ай бұрын

I remember 124A, peak hours to Woolwich. Would love to see photos of it running pas Falconwood station. Never have seen any.

@falafel4618

Ай бұрын

The 124 was my local route (at the Forest Hill end). I remember taking my dog up to Bexley Hospital (to run on Dartford Heath, not as a patient!) on the Sunday afternoon extension on the 124A. The current 124 is a pale imitation of what was once a very frequent route.

@falafel4618

Ай бұрын

I remember reading btw that the Crown Wood school run (now the 624) was a nightmare for the drivers due to the boisterous behaviour of the kids!

@ROCKINGMAN

Ай бұрын

@@falafel4618 You say you worked from NX, I might have been on your route. Went on MD's on the 53, made me sick due to suspension. I may have gone to Crown Woods too with my class from Abbey Wood, using Crown Woods School facilities, in 1979 for archery lessons...of all things! Now I work occasinally at Falconwood station and see 624 route. Would like to see mini doc on MD, all good stuff!

@falafel4618

Ай бұрын

@@ROCKINGMAN Yes, I started on the 37s (I hated that route) and transferred as quickly as I could to the 53s. There were some great characters at the garage but I didn't get on with the garage manger - or Parrish - the inspector who couldn't wait to book anyone up at the common.

OJD192R and OJD232R were still operating for Morley's of Whittlesey in 2005, right up until their demise that year.

The Alexander L type Daimler Fleetline was the most common double decker on the Scottish Bus Group fleet nearly every SBG company bought a fleet of them

Sutton garage (A) had the re-engineered ones from about 88 onwards with the Iveco engine. They flew but suffered from severe body judder when stationary in traffic. The upgrade gave them a distinctive final drive (?) whine. I hated it when the MCWs replaced them.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

I think that's the problem with a lot of the re-engined buses including the Cummins engined RMLs. The engine and drive wasn't totally matched and could cause a lot of stress to the transmission. When I was type trained on the RMLs at London Central, my instructor told me not to use the holding gears or change gear if it was a slow bus as it would damage the gearbox.

I Use to Drive for a Bus company that had, bought 3 Dms's for School Runs,& Service work, Once I got the hang of Driving them,l loved driving them! I totally agree with you, that you, that they earned a bad rap from London Transport! Great Upload!

The original headlamp layout on the DMS (closer together) reminds me of the front end of a 1972 Stock Tube Train

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Yes 100% now you mention it.

It was inept LT fitters with the not invented here mentality. Operators snapped them up and got decades out of em

I used to drive them at Kingston bus, I think they were brought out off the driver training department. We also had the MCW Metrobus. At the time we used to say Oh no I've got a DMS. Looking back, given the chance today I would prefer the DMS

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

What an amazing choice to have nowadays - DMS or a Metro. To be honest I think I might take the Metro as much as I love the DMS...

@DiecastPowderCoating

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003 Hi, I think it was because the Metro's were quite new back then. A few years ago I did a bit of Rail replacement work and they used the metro, by then they were very old and were terrible. I used to drive the Leyland National a lot, back in the 80s for Westlink and London Country. I got fed up with those at the time, but would love to have a go of one again now.

@jamesfrench7299

Ай бұрын

The Metros had the advanced three speed full auto with retarder and a considerably more modern looking cab layout.

I came across them as open top with Big Bus in central London back in 99 and recall one with a Voith gearbox easily audible. Perhaps that's the form I'd want to preserve one in. That red one featured here sounds really good.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Must have sounded amazing with a Voith in the back? This one in the video is DMS550 and she's a lovely old bus.

@jamesfrench7299

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003 it sounded similar to a Metro when it drove off.

Great mini documentary. Love vintage buses, especially LT types. XA's and XF's were nice, a rear engine bus that still looks 50's. Have mixed views on the DMS. Early styles were not bad but as the years wore on they became less interesting and scruffy. Hated the B20, an after thought, with ugly rear. Was aware of the Mancunian and thought how smart they were and similar to the DMS. Didn't know Ralph Bennett was the inspiration for the DMS. Remember the DMS from new 1970 at Abbey Wood for old RT/RM route 177. The seat moquette was also used for Swift/Merlins (I think), 1967 stock and a modernised RF. ABC bus book I have states that some DMS' had Rolls Royce engines. Was this true? Seems DMS' interior inspired new bus Metro-Scania MD class. DMS' returned to Woolwich in the 90's with Metrobus. Remember seeing DMS 1 (EGP 1J) on route through Woolwich in early 80's. Must have been from Catford. Could you do LT's MD/MS class?

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Glad you liked it. Yes there were a few DMS' with Rolls Royce engines fitted as a bit of an experiment. I will have to do some research on the Metro Scanias first!

@ROCKINGMAN

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003 Again mixed views on the MD. I always think a true London bus has to be designed by LT. MD's were not, but LT was already having trials with the single deck one in 1970 (VWD 451H) I think. Look forward to that one if you do it.

Thanks for the video. I used to get these to school from the age of 11/14. I remember the first day of service on my local route and I went for a 3p test run. They replaced RMLs. In the 3 years that I travelled on them, I never saw one broken down or had a breakdown on a journey. I used to love the rear seat, for the warmth in winter ( not so good in summer) and the sensation of turning right or left at a junction, always felt like you were on a fairground ride. Many years later I was acquainted with EnsignBus and still got to go and see them. Two of the buses I travelled on to school , one ended up in Dover docks and the other I was very surprised to see in Hong Kong. I think looks wise they have faired well, they still look modern today.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Glad you liked it and it brought back these happy memories.

@rororp

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003 It did indeed, thank you.

Great love for the DM/DMS here. This one was lucky enough to ride on brand-new ones, on their day of introduction on various routes as a kid. Southend Transport's livery was this one's favourite, outside of London.

My husband says you are right to say they are unjustly criticised. Our council(Chesterfield), when it was allowed to run buses, bought 16 of then second hand, so they cannot be that bad! I probably have happy memories of riding on them . . . But,I won't go into that!

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

You cant leave it there... 😂

@MelanieRuck-dq5uo

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003 oh yes I can! Otherwise, we will have to get a room! Lol

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

@@MelanieRuck-dq5uo 🤣

My favorite livery of DMS is the one in Citybus Hong Kong ages ago, with a lovely looking dolphin drawn on the sides of the bus. It was a special livery for the Ocean Park service which is still hosted by Citybus in nowadays. It looks very cute that the people on the upper deck is riding on the dolphin! There was another livery by Citybus Hong Kong that looks similar to the one I have mentioned, but with a big bird on the side of the bus. It was used to advertise the new aviary in Ocean Park at that time. Sadly that the aviary is closed for years and both liveries are no longer on the Citybus Hong Kong anymore!

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Citybus has had some amazingly colourful liveries over the years.

@jasonyu6649

Ай бұрын

The best user of DMS in HK is definitely the now defunct CMB, supplementing the huge fleet of Fleetlines of different lengths and heights. While being shorter, they were more flexible and hence suitable for the terrain of Hong Kong Island.

@KL-jr5ip

Ай бұрын

@@jasonyu6649 When LT said they weren't suitable for heavy traffic, but the XF class proved itself on route 6 to Stanley, climbing the Stubbs Road, often overloaded, in summer heat, not to mention being the major stay of the trunk routes in the Northern trunk routes from Kennedy Town to Shau Kei Wan

As child and later a professional bus driver I’ve always loved the DMS I went on the first ones in 71 on the 220 from White City to nans and grandads in Hammersmith on the 91 Fulham to Hammersmith and on the later B20s on the 220 to school in Fulham ,sorry but LT and sad to say the Union didn’t help strapping 2 tons of extra equipment I ask you a turnstile on a bus 😮it’s hardly ever worked as a school kid the driver let us sit on it 😂,if I ever meet you I could go on for hours about this bus mate 😊,if I was offered a DMS or an RM the DMS would win for me ,my favourite livery was the mid seventies white upper deck windows LT livery but WMPTE a close second. I would love to drive one too ,I could go on but my finger hurts 😂😂 All the best mate and thanks for a great channel Mark. 😊😊👍🏻😃

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Thanks Mark. Great memories there. Yes I've always loved the DMS too despite living on the Kent coast and not actually seeing any for many years.

Think my fav livery was the CMB light blue and white. Great video. I still hold fond memories of them as trainers with LCBS. They ran well and as a mechanic I found them easy to work on. AN's could be shall we say pigs.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

That's interesting to hear from a mechanical point of view. Thank you commenting.

I used to work for Chesterfield Transport in the 80's we had 16 DMS's they were as good as anything else.

Western, Clydeside, Highland Scottish took quite substantial batches along with independent operators such as Graham of Paisley and the Ayrshire Bus Owners group A1.

@stevenoliver1326

Ай бұрын

Clydeside's ones were inherited from Western SMT. They would subsequently, and ironically, be sold to London Buses in 1987 for the Bexleybus operation. London buying back vehicles which it had sold less than a decade earlier, and of a type which it had so publicly declared as "unsuitable" - you couldn't make it up.

Hi i'm viatron from Sheffield again, I remember one bus operator in South Yorkshire who had London DMS-style double deck Leyland Fleetline were S.Y.P.T.E. via being based on this design. But they were bought new from both British Leyland & M.C.W. subjecting to they weren't bought second hand unlike many other bus operators such as like G.M.P.T.E. in Manchester or W.M.P.T.E. in Birmingham for instance, plus these ones for S.Y.P.T.E.were something as a one off fleet via there is only one preserved at the South Yorkshire Transport Trust at Eastwood in Rotherham still in a very bad condition & I hope it will be finally restored to it's original coffee & cream livery of S.Y.P.T.E. in the near future. Thanks for your co-operation on this very special London Transport DMS-type double deck bus subject from David Viatron Esquire of crookes in Sheffield. So see you on a DMS bus today so HOLD VERY TIGHT PLEASE! DING! DING!..

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Hi David. Yes I have to admit I forgot to put those into the video. Very similar except they had a low driving position (no power steering) and no shroud at the back.

WMPTE went for them but then again they were big Daimler Fleetline operators anyway. Their's were early single door conversions where the semi bulkheads that surrounded the centre exit door were retained and I think a double seat was mounted longitudinally, this resulted in the new panels having a slightly smaller window. Later conversions had the semi bulkheads removed at it was realised they were not load bearing and could be removed completely, giving the appearance that they had never been dual door in the first place as a standard window could be utilised. Don't forget the DMS.s also had a raised driving position.

@marksinthehouse1968

Ай бұрын

The WMPTE ones looked smart saw one on the north circular at Wembley must of been painted down here 😊

@Anyone_Noone_Someone

Ай бұрын

It was Stevensons that pioneered the "invisible" single door conversion and a livery which would be good to be represented in preservation

@northstar1950

Ай бұрын

@@Anyone_Noone_Someone, I didn't know that, not that I'm claiming to be some sort of expert on the subject, I assumed the dealer Ensign of Purfleet, did the conversions as I believe they had the contract to sell the lot. Anyway we'll done Stevenson.

I been waiting for the next instalment of classic bus history ❤❤❤❤

Hello Jake, thank you for a very interesting video. I admit that I have a fondness for the LT RT type buses as I travelled to and from school on them in the 1960s, and during your video on the DMS s noticed one displaying the destination Forest Hill route 194 my route , and going the other way to Croydon Airport (London’s first international airport before Heathrow). The route 194 buses were based at Elmers End garage ( ED ). Whilst I lived in London I did get a ride on FRM1. I left Elmers End, and London, in the early 1970s before ED closed. Before London, I travelled on the first Maidstone & District Leyland Atlantean buses in Kent to school in the very late 1950s. Pity so few DMS s made it into preservation. Just found photos of the last days (Oct 1986) of ED garage with RT1702 (12), DMS2577 (194 Croydon Aiport), LS1 (12A) and RM911 (12) 😥

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Hello Doug. Glad you liked the video and found it interesting. Some nice memories you have there. I might have to do another special on FRM1...

I worked at Southend Transport in 86/87 and we had Some ex-LT DMS's (I recall DMS's 820/822/1849/926/1008/1015 and 1029) which were sturdy buses but as I was a Conductor horrid to conduct on our 1 Southend-Rayleigh and 3A Southend-Canvey . We operated the former Culture Bus 614 and on at least 1 occasion a DMS was used by us in London on the route-64 on the scrolls (As 614 not on the scrolls) 2 hours running time on the circular route with 1.5 on Saturdays in them days. Retrobus of Northfleet still have 1 they use on PH's 🙂

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your memories. I heard that the DMS wasn't very popular in Southend.

As a conductor at NX I always preferred the ill-fated MD (Metropolitan Scania) and it was a bit of a let down when they were sent off to Plumstead and replaced by DMs and even RMs. As a kid I can remember the turnstiles on the DMS and SMS were almost always out of order - their only useful purpose was the metal barrier serving as a foot rest for weary drivers and passengers!

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

I heard a similar tale from my former colleagues at PM! I think it was the speed of those MDs that help make them popular. Always good to hear from someone from NX 👍🏼

@rondobson9774

Ай бұрын

I was a conductor at NX in the 70s and never had a duty on one of those DMS's

@ROCKINGMAN

Ай бұрын

I lived in Abbey Wood in 1981. One morning I noticed all the buses were MD's. I rode around seraching the new buses and couldn't work out what had happened. I now know The old AM and AW garages had closed and a new one at Plumstead took in all the MD's from NX and PM. My world wasn't the same without my beloved Routemaster. I actually found it upsetting.

@jamesfrench7299

Ай бұрын

The MDs has two speed autos but that didn't seem to blunt performance much.

@falafel4618

Ай бұрын

@@rondobson9774 If I remember rightly, the DMs replaced the MDs around 1979/80.

As always an enjoyable video, but unfortunately for me there was a lack cab footage and interior footage like upper deck and stairs etc,

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

I've never actually filmed the cab of DMS550 which I didn't realise until you commented. I will have to sort that out for a future video. And at the time the upper deck was being restored and had no seats. Again, I can sort that out now it's nearly done.

Problems in London - overhaul (not Aldenham style compatible) lack of spares time came in the 1970s as the DMS were due for first light garage overhauls so had bits robbed out of others (the same was happening to RTs in fairness)

A couple of these took me to school in Aylesford in Kent all the way through the mid 90s. The same buses were still going into the early 2000s so they can’t have been that bad!

Absolutely loved DMSs. though rode very few in London! I'm from the West Midlands, so the WMPTE examples were the first I encountered, though I soon got to ride on those of Stevensons, Midland Red East/Midland Fox, Midland Red North and many others, including Ensign themselves on the London 62! Total classic, showing just how out of touch LT was in the seventies!

Did my training and passed my test on an LT DMS. Passed 1st time so it must have been an OK bus.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

You always remember and have a soft spot for the bus you trained on! Mine was a Titan.

@marksinthehouse1968

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003lucky man again another I need to drive though I’ve driven Olympians does that count 😂

This was one type of bus I wish was seen a lot more in Leeds, was only around the early 90s when my home city had a fair few by a couple of small independents like Aireline. I would love to think how one would look in Black Prince colours in reality. I have a model of a DMS which I hope to do in that livery at some point.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

How about a Quickstep liveried DMS? I thought their livery was very smart as well.

@MichaelAaronWindle

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003 Good idea, I never actually thought about that! 👍

I had the... um... "pleasure" of driving old Red Rover (Aylesbury) DMSes to Luton and back in the mid 1980s. I was really excited about it the first time out, because I remembered their introduction to the London Transport 92 route when I was growing up as a kid. I couldn;t wait!! But they were pretty old by then, so they rattled and banged and were extremely unpleasant to drive, especially after being spoiled by the VRs that I'd been used to.

rode on DMS to from school FROM 1973- 1976 they had their good points and bad points that was not the bus fault it was down to bad maintenance shortage of spares . some DMS were used by low cost units set up when private companies used them on LT tender routes NB for EG had some when they became Kingston Bus , Also Metrobus Cityrama Bexleybus Suttonbus they were good workhorses

I remember as a kid when West Midlands pte had dms fleetlines most drivers said they were better then the ones that West Midlands had

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Might be down to the power steering? The original Fleetline could be a heavy bus to steer when loaded.

@fatscottie1997

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003 @simonflynn168 DMS steering was superior to the WMPTE steering, which was retro fitted with AutoSteer (or Auto VEER!) air assisted power steering.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

@@fatscottie1997 ah yes the famous Autoveer! I've only ever driven one bus fitted with it and to be honest, it was OK. Must've been a particularly good one as I've heard the horror stories. Something that was a good idea on paper but not in practice...

Sourcing the original types of AFC units would be nice. I Say different as the early DMS issued Pink Card Tickets, compared to later (and some SMS ?) buff tickets off a "cheese roll" of Lon don Trans port ticket blanks- setright sized. (I have 22 cheese rolls in a shed I have lost the key to)

These were always used on my school bus route until their replacement with MCW Metrobus mk1’s. I’m biased, but of course my favourite livery was SYPTE / SYT.

Ah happy childhood memories of DM/DMS around East & North East London . LT just could not adapt to the different maintainance regime required & your never going to get the LT half cab enthusiasts to like them.

Passed my test in one of these back in 1986 (KUC936P)

I used to travel on them a lot but noticed they were disappearing slowly 😮

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

That's always when we start to notice and appreciate things.

The DMS was a great bus ...it just wasn't a Routemaster in LTs eyes ....Birmingham operated over a 1000 Fleetlines in similar conditions to London and absolutely swore by them ...

@jakeyb2003

5 күн бұрын

@@briankay4713 I totally agree with you Brian

fun fact one DMS (DMS763) still survives out in hong kong, but is in poor condition

Always thought the Ensignbus blue and silver suited them and going back further DMS 1933's special livery for the 50th anniversary of LT was a good one.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

1933 Special 100% yes. Very classy.

😊😊No Good in The Summer ? ( With a Full Load Going Up Hill ) EX Sidcup Garage !

I think it was early 1980s when CK of Cardiff got a few DMS for services to compete with Cardiff Corporation.

I remember Coventry / West Midlands transport operating in the 70s a small number of Fleetlines with double entrances, although I recall them only initially having both entrances in operation and soon it was always roped off (rather posh bit of purpose built rope I recall) and I believe they were eventually rebuilt as single entrance. Were these ex MCW DMS or were they a batch of double entrance fleetlines built to order to try out double entrance but quickly abandoned due to the "criminality" of West Midlanders?

I have a nice transparacy I took of a DMS at Midland Red Works (I cannot recall if it was for Midland Red / NBC. or a subcontract overhaul for LT (mid 1983 year)

Big Bus did have its roots in Maybury's Tours that were done on own account and for other tour package operators. Cityrama came - and went - but i think again the owning people had an earlier coaching operation heritage, even so some of the operators (in London) seemed more "second rate" than others. Even Grey-Green with Eastender Bux (Dix) seemed not the greatest compared to the new (Scanias?) on the 24., maybe it was an unfortunate use of the brown.orange.white livery

I went to school every day on the 157 route I’d buy one

I think the DMSs were good old motors. Maidstone & District bought a number of seconds hand DMSs.

Would have to say the westmindlands Pte blue and cream made them look good

Used to ride on ex London DMS on trips Basildon swimming baths NIBs was owner Nelson independent buses

D2629 thx629s the chocolate box was mt favorite

@jakeyb2003

26 күн бұрын

Good choice

What's my favourite livery? I think I would go for London Transport red.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Plain red? Yellow doors? White stripe or white top? Shillibeer or Chocolate Box? Even the LT livery has a lot of selection. 😉

Interesting video. It's Daimler Monoc Standee by the way. There were more Leyland engined DMSs than Gardner.😄

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

Thanks. Glad you found it interesting. I never knew or have heard that version but it does make sense. LT codes could be a little cryptic at times eh?

Personally my opinion was the main thing wrong with the DMS was London Transport itself.

Was the London Busses in History Post Busses? Cause they Red like Phone boxes or mail boxes

Always thought the DMS was a good looking bus.

@jamesfrench7299

Ай бұрын

Mainly the shape.

Seems odd that you don't deal with Ensignbus in more detail, especially as they ran a lot of these DMS buses when they took over many routes to the east of London and out into Essex.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

I could do a whole video on Ensignbus alone! Especially if I was to include their operations, the Citybus sale and their sales.

Never had a ride on a DMS or DM

@highpath4776

Ай бұрын

Are you in London ?

@russb2286

Ай бұрын

@@highpath4776 Nope. Im a northern lad.

wonder how many met there fate at barnsley yards

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

100's I expect - bar the ones that were exported.

@Littlealan1959

Ай бұрын

@@jakeyb2003 if you ask the Newman family they may tell you how many they stripped in their yard for spares in Rainham that were not sold on BBPG have largest fleet of preserved DM DMS as you said some are in a sorry state

The Question isn't weather the DMS was better or worse than the RM or RT,..because they are not comparable. .the question is were they better or worse than the MCW Metrobus? out of the two i've only driven the Metrobus, as the DMS's were on their last legs when i passed my test, i think the Metrobus was more successful,..🚌🚌🚌🚌

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

It's a good question. I've driven both and found the Metrobus much more comfortable and forgiving if I'm honest.

Dms at Lut hindley deport 80s

Dms buses were not reliable they broke down a lot.

An ugly ,noisy metal box on wheels and unreliable.

@jakeyb2003

Ай бұрын

But better than the plastic of today's bus world?

@jamesfrench7299

Ай бұрын

They were a good quality heavy duty product in an unsuitable operation.

Once they escaped London they were cared for and loved ok in the north east loved them.