The Ribble bus in the river was one belonging to their Blackburn depot. It was 457 NTC 637M and was travelling to Rochdale on their 244 Preston to Rochdale service on the afternoon of the 16th November 1984. The accident occurred very close to Rawtenstall town centre when it ran through a wall and belly flopped into the river due to excessive speed, which the driver couldn't correct. To prove the Nationals strength, no windows were broken, and the engine was still running when the rescue services arrived. It was recovered to Ribble's Burnley depot for damage assessment. It was deemed a repairable project, but due to it being nearly eleven years old, it was withdrawn from service and stripped for usable parts. Hope this is of interest.

@JeffreyOrnstein

12 күн бұрын

Ah, thank you for that great info!!! Much appreciated. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@grahamemmett

2 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnsteinI can remember seeing bits of bus parts in the river afterwards

It's probably one of the best designs of buses at its time. One of the first buses to use air suspension all round, a turbo charged engine, low floor design and consideration into the drivers ease of use. Rust protection was second to none, as was build quality. Yes the 510 engine wasn't the greatest option to go for but that was it's biggest flaw. It paved the way for a new generation of bus designs used by other manufacturers and to date the only bus built in its own amazing, automated factory. I'm not biased, I look after and run 3 Mk1s and 3 Mk2s.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your experience with the National - very interesting to hear the extra detail! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@user-ux4ld5ih8x

18 күн бұрын

@JeffreyOrnstein it's biggest flaw was 1) the engine choice. 2) it was so forward-thinking and radical in design that bus operators didn't know how to look after them. The 6 we own, most of the original spec engine still in them, and one managed 30 years in service! New buses won't get anywhere near a service life of 30 years. We're based at lillyhall literally round the corner from the original factory and still have contact with ex leyland plant workers and management.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

@@user-ux4ld5ih8x Thanks for the info! Yes, I'm now aware of the 510 and its shortcomings...I wasn't aware of it when I made the video. So now I know!

@LeylandFiveTen

10 күн бұрын

​@@JeffreyOrnsteinIn honesty the 510 wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. The fixed head scared mechanics, but it rarely gave trouble. The bottom bearings, ends and mains, were easy to change but were often neglected. I own a MK1 and have been involved with them since the year 2000 in preservation. I travelled on them from the age of 0 to 17 almost daily. They proved themselves to be a very reliable, durable and long lasting design - once operators got used to them.

A footnote to the Leyland National story - the modular body design was promoted for rail use in the UK and abroad. A number of prototype vehicles were built, leading to several fleets of (moderately unpopular) trains operating in the UK, some of which were only taken out of use relatively recently. Search for the BRE-Leyland Railbus for more information on the prototypes (including at least one that ran in the USA), British Rail Classes 140, 141 and 142 which used Leyland National body parts, and the related Classes 143 and 144 that used a similar construction but with bodies sourced from another bus manufacturer. I grew up near Leyland and still remember seeing empty bus chassis being driven around the roads in the area, with a very cold looking driver sitting atop the frame with no bodywork to protect him from the elements! Thanks for the interesting video! :)

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for the very interesting info about the National - those open chassis driving around must have been a sight to see! Yes - there were a couple of railbuses based on the National that made it to the USA - in fact, I've done a video about LEV-2, which ended up being scrapped a few years ago after suffering at a trolley museum in Connecticut! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@halesworth01

18 күн бұрын

I was going to point you to that!

@ChrisCooper312

17 күн бұрын

The 155 and 153 Super Sprinters were also built by Leyland and use quite a bit of National construction techniques.

@ThinkingAloud

17 күн бұрын

Duh, of course! I blame the hypnotic effect of the Pacer's 4-wheel underframes on jointed track for the memory lapse! ;)

@stanmarsh14

16 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein Yes, these railbus units in the UK, was known as Pacers, having only the past few years been discontinued, and it did amaze me some of them actually ended up State Side. They did have quite a poor ride rep, and if I remember right, one is in preservation at The Midland Railway, in Ripley, Derbyshire. I absolutely hated them, when I had to use them on my many trips in to Yorkshire (Northern Rail). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacer_(British_Rail)

My experience of the Leyland National in Australia, purchased in used condition by my employer. A Leyland National, fully imported, British manufacture, Headless 500ci rear engine laying on its side, it ran well but problems soon surfaced. The air filter was positioned in such a way that it could not be serviced!! It looked to me like it had never been serviced since new, also its connection to the body was never right and a gap of 25mm was present right behind the rear wheels where dirt and water could enter the filter. The engine soon began using oil so we dropped it out for repair. As I began taking it apart I could see that this motor was designed to be put together in several different ways, ie in the bus it lay on its side, in a cabover truck the exhaust manifold would be away from the driver, in a boat the flywheel would be at the other end, a brilliant design. But, they used 17mm nuts on M10 bolts making it difficult to get a spanner onto many of the bolts, but why? When the Japanese proved beyond all doubt that 14mm was sufficient to do the job!!! There was a problem with the cooling also, maybe it is OK in Britain to recycle the warm air from the rear of the bus, through the radiator and back to the engine bay but in our climate, this is not ‘best practice’. The rear engine Bedford and the Nissan had a semicircular guard between the engine and the radiator, bringing air in through a side vent, through the radiator and out through screens in the back panels. We did the same with this one fitting a fan with the opposite pitch. This bus was used while # 5 was off the road, the driver approached me about a strange noise that occurred on a Left turn, “Take me out and show me,” I said, so we drove around the Redbank Railway Workshops, all Left turns. Nothing happened, she was about to go Right and back to our shop, “No, go around again,” She had to brake a little harder and swung Left at such late notice, I was standing on the step with the door open listening for this noise, looking down at the front wheel that was not turning, not even on the road, as the bus righted after the turn we got this, ‘Aeroplane touchdown noise’, arrk “That’s it,” she said. The problem, on the Left rear an Air suspension control rod had broken pushing that Air Bag fully up, while on the Right rear one of the tires was flat, at the front an anti roll bar 50mm thick was simply picking the wheel right up off the road. Ted from down under.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Wow, thanks for all of this info on your experience with the National in Australia! Very interesting!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@timothysparks9498

17 күн бұрын

You can’t say the vehicle wasn’t rigid.

@Low760

17 күн бұрын

That's awesome. I know the PTC Vic had them but they kept one which doesn't come out.

@gregrudd6983

9 күн бұрын

Sydney never went near the National, preferring the Leopard

@mistero4

7 күн бұрын

@@gregrudd6983the 0305 ran rings around them. The PTC had been looking at them when the last of the Leopards were being built.

even though they had their problems, many had long lives lasting over 25 years, a coach company in scotland ran them right up untill 2017

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Interesting to hear how long some have lasted!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@stretchedits

17 күн бұрын

Yes they were very popular with second hand operators. Guess because they were easy to maintain.

@TimothyWorel-xj9he

16 күн бұрын

The Scottish Prison Service ran three, converted into cellular accommodation for prisoner transport.

@MrSketchydave69

15 күн бұрын

We had them in the South Wales Valley Lines until very recently 2021?, up until Transport For Wales took over the trains..

@LMB222

14 күн бұрын

Many… meaning those that didn't have any quality problems.

One thing that helped the National last as long as it did, was that whilst not "low floor" by modern standards (due to the step inside), they were still low by the standards of many other single deckers of the period and later, and therefore gave good access even at a time true low floor buses were coming along. Add in that the air suspension could be retrofitted for kneeling, along with the wide entrance, and you've got a bus that whilst not accessible by modern standards (or even standards of the newest buses at the time) was still more accessible compared to many newer buses that were still around in the late 90s and early 2000s (and remember that for every person in a wheelchair who needs a totally flat floor and ramp, there many older or walking disabled people who will benefit from a lower step even without full wheelchair access). A company where I live ran some heavily refurbished Nationals calling them "easy access" and it's hard to dispute compared to the more modern Dennis Darts (with a higher floor) that they were running in competition with. Even when the Darts were replaced by Low Floor versions, these still lacked the wheelchair ramps found on modern buses, so by todays standards their accessibility was not perfect. The heating system issues with the National are something that have plagued British buses for a long time, keeping them warm in winter and cool in summer, and many radical ideas have failed. Most recently the issue has been more about cooling in summer, where there has been a tendency to remove opening windows in favour of "air cooling" which can't cope on hot days. Ultimately though the approach taken with the National, combined with old school floor level radiators, has proven to be pretty effective and has seen widespread use by many manufacturers. Perhaps the most obvious was Optare, who pretty much revived and improved the National's original system to good effect, giving their Delta (and variants) and replacement Excel, the same iconic rear pod as the National. Finally, towards the end of their lives, there were a number of programs to update and life extend older Nationals. The two most common upgrades were replacing the original Leyland 510 engines with Volvo power units, and also replacement of things like bell pushes, flooring and step edges along with painting grab poles to bring them up to the latest DPTAC (pronouned "dip-tak") standards for accessibility (as said above, the National was already pretty good in that regard). Fitting better heating systems was also common. Some also included bodywork changes, particularly updated headlight clusters. The most radical was the "Greenway" from East Lancs Coachbuilders, which as well as new engines, stripped them down to the shell and replaced the body panels, giving a modern appearance (usually combined with an "Irish Plate" which unlike standard UK number plates doesn't have an obvious year, so to most people it looks like a new bus). These were particularly common in London, the two biggest operators being London Transport for their "Red Arrow" services in central London, and Greenline who operated in the suburbs and beyond. One of my local operators, Midland Fox (now Arriva Midlands) gained quite a number of the old Greenline Greenways and kept them well into the 2000s.

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your detailed comment on the features of the National - very interesting info. Thanks for watching!

In the mid 1980s I used to ride home from school by bus. It would usually be either an Eastern Counties Bristol VR, Bristol RE or Leyland National Mk1. The Nationals were R & S registration with short roof pods most of the time. On only a couple of occasions an early National wirh long roof pod on an L registration ran the bus service I used to get. On rare occasions did a National Mk2 with no roof pod run. The National Mk1 with the short roof pod was my favourite. As a 10 to 13 year old I was taken by the crisp and well thought out design of the interior of the phase 2 Mk1. The long pod version had an older look to it inside I found. The noise of the Leyland 510 engine was the other thing I remember fondly. The 510 had a very distinctive clatter at idle and a memorable whirring whooshing noise as the bus pulled away. The only other bus that came close in terms of distintive engine noise for me was the London Transport MCW Metrobus double deckers I used to ride to and from university in the early 1990s. It's the National though that's my alk time favourite bus.

@JeffreyOrnstein

16 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your experience with the National. Very interesting! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I love the sound of the National 1s the "Clack Clack Clack Clack" sound and I swear Some of the East Kent Drivers would wait until people were walking behind the bus then put their foot down and Napalm them LoL! The amount of times I was covered in exhaust from a national I've lost count! If you want to learn about more British Buses there is another channel on KZread called JakeSCOC he does loads of stuff from Classic Bus Histories to different "Bus Bits"! Loved this video thanks

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Thanks for your experience with the Nationals! Will check out that channel! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@user-mv6li7fi8e

18 күн бұрын

@@edbridges1164 I would not say they had a clack clack clack sound more a phut phut phut due to the weird injrctor sealing on the 510 engine. That was if they could start from cold as the cold start rarely worked and the air throttle meant cold stargting at idle throttle was the norm.

@matthewc.419

17 күн бұрын

That noise was mint

@edbridges1164

17 күн бұрын

@@user-mv6li7fi8e true I've watched a video of a bunch of South Riding Nationals starting from cold and let's just say the sky around them certainly wasn't clear! LoL! The National 2s were an Oddity to East Kent they had the ex Demonstrator "Q255GRW" and Stagecoach bought one in I think a "JCK" the National 2s seemed to not smoke as much! The National 1s could be Heavy Smokers! I believe the "Clack Clack" sound was the Fan Belt at the back

@TimothyWorel-xj9he

16 күн бұрын

When I was going out with a girl who lived three miles away from me, I used to hope there was a National on the last Blackwood. I could hear the turbo whine in time to get onto the bus stop.

Hi Jeffrey, As an American making a video about a British bus you did very well, but you probably were not aware of the National's biggest flaw, the awful Leyland 510 engine, which was probably the worst engine ever produced by Leyland. The Mark 2 had the Leyland 680 engine , which was one of Leyland's best engines or the TL11 which was developed from the 680. The National was one of the first buses in the UK to have full air suspension and it did lean alarmingly on bends and corners, yet another flaw. They were easy to drive with a good driving position. .

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for the extra information on the National!! Unfortunately, I wasn't really aware of the 510 engine....an oversight on my part, I guess. Well, I tried. Additionally, I do recall that one National was fitted with a Detroit Diesel engine in a test, and it sounded just like an American GM New Look bus....I once saw a video of it, but can't recall which bus company did this test. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@jamesfrench7299

18 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein you might be interested to learn that Perth Western Australia ran several Leyland B21s with GM 6-71s which were all sold off to a family run bus operator in Sydney which enabled me to ride in a couple. They were withdrawn and sold early by TransPerth due to high fuel consumption!

@stevedickson5853

18 күн бұрын

​@jamesfrench7299 not many full size buses around with good fuel consumption lol

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

@@jamesfrench7299 An American engine guzzling fuel? LOL.

@jamesfrench7299

17 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein not helped by the Allison gearboxes which had lots of slip on takeoff.

Very well done feature. The shorter roof pod was introduced in 1975 during the first National's production run ready for the phase 2 of the National 1 in 1976 which addressed issues like weight distribution by relocating the batteries in the front overhang under the driver. Four gearbox options were offered. Four or five speed electro - pneumatically operated semi automatic gearbox or a fully automatic version of those. A ZF two speed full automatic transmission was also offered but rarely taken up, Melbourne with 30 ZF examples.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Thanks for the info, very interesting details!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Brought back a lot of memories from my childhood in 1970s-80s Britain, did this video - thank you! Particular memories for me was visiting my Grandma on Saturdays in this bus. Unlike the big double-deckers I took everywhere else, her house on the distant new-build outskirts of Sheffield was only serviced by Nationals. I remember sitting near the front and, as a bus-obsessed kid, being rather frustrated by the very high window line - pointedly and very aptly highlighted here. A small kid sitting on those seats had no chance of seeing any street-level action through the window. Sit towards the back of the bus, you say? In the early 80s, that was where the smokers sat, and the secondhand-smoke-induced nausea from B&H chain-smokers in the rear stains yellow my memories of my regular trips to Mosborough to this day. Smoking was only banned on South Yorkshire buses - along with the rest of the UK - in 1992. The second memory trigger was the photo of the articulated buses. As a kid, going on one of these "bendy buses" in Sheffield town centre was the highlight of a trip to town - although this probably only occurred for me a couple of times before these buses were disappeared. Only later when the idea was reintroduced (I was on such a bus just yesterday in Brussels!) did I learn that the versions you mentioned were quickly retired for very dodgy engineering whose source you explain well. As soon as I saw the first photo you show - taken in Sheffield near the Midland Railway station with the University of Sheffield Student Union's "Nelson Mandela" building in the background (a name that was still a controversial political statement in Thatcher's sanctions-resistant early-80s Britiain - and that's why they used it!) immediately brought the memories flooding back. Thatcher, of course, would have her revenge on South Yorkshire Transport's socialist mindset" of frequent and affordable public transportation, with its subsidised cheap fares and technical innovations (not all successes, as we can see), but that's a story for another day and has nothing to do with engineering. Thank you for this video, Sir!

@JeffreyOrnstein

16 күн бұрын

Wow, great comment, very detailed with lots of memories and info. Glad you liked the video!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

A very interesting video, the National was forced on the fleets of the National Bus Company with a choice of red or green livery. In the 90s quite a lot of Nationals were re bodied by a company called Willowbrook using the original frames, replacing steel outside panels with aluminium. The National 2 was a much better bus but it came too late. I much appreciate the time and trouble you take to make these videos. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Yes! The National made its debut not too long after the NBC came into being. It's unfortunate that all those great liveries were replaced with either poppy red or leaf green. I think the Lynx had replaced the National, from what I have read. Thanks again for your informative comments!!

@kaolla1000

18 күн бұрын

your thinking of east lancs coachbuilders & the leyland national greenway

@ladyconstanceOBE

18 күн бұрын

@@kaolla1000 Yes, old age getting to me.

@ChrisCooper312

17 күн бұрын

Willowbrook never touched Nationals. It was East Lancs who did the Nationals, known as the Greenway. Willowbrook were more well known for rebodying Leopards, mostly with the Warrior for bus work, but also the Crusader as a Coach. Unlike the Greenways which were pretty successful, Willowbrook's rebuilds didn't last long since Willowbrook bodies were rustbuckets, and the Leopard wasn't great for bus work due to it's high floor. Funnily I actually work on the site of the former Willowbrook factory, now a retail park.

I hated driving the National. The 501 engine was very unreliable and noisy. The heating system was poor blowing warm air down from the roof, hot air rises doesn't it? They were overcomplicated, we often had to kick the engine cover to get the engine to start. There was a cheap and nasty safety switch behind the cover that often failed. I am glad I have a 1963 front engined double decker, a superb bus that does 10mpg.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you so much for your experience with the National! Very interesting!!! I guess it really was a flawed design, LOL. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@listohan

17 күн бұрын

Should have suited Brisbane passengers with air conditioning

@AndreiTupolev

17 күн бұрын

The ventilation system was designed so that a curtain of warm air would keep the windows free of condensation, and is much less fierce than floor mounted radiators. Modern air conditioning systems are always ceiling mounted after all

@enemyofthestatewearein7945

15 күн бұрын

@@AndreiTupolev The heating was crap. I well remember being too hot and cold at the same time. And the basic bus seats had no padding and a stupid bar that dug in your back.

@JonDingle

7 күн бұрын

Well I for one loved the sound of them and drove them and National 2's which were OK but didn't have the nice sound.

From 1969 to 1975 I worked in the Leyland Truck and Bus Central Engineering design office on various projects which included the National Bus so I feel that I must congratulate you on producing a very well informed video which includes a number of items about which even I was not aware. Nice work! I will just add that the original styling was carried out by David Bache of Rover but, at the last minute, Sir Donald Stokes the CEO decided to call in Michelotti instead to give the bus a revised look. The initial vehicle design was for three length of 10, 11 and 12 metres but, for the Michelotti redesign, these were replaced by two lengths of approximately10.3 and 11.3 metres to better match the seating pitch. The later 10.9 metre was, as you said, a hybrid of the two. The bus was originally designed to take the 680 engine and the mistaken decision to change this to the less refined 510 is suitably described in some of the other comments. The overhead heating system inevitably lead to warm heads and cold feet: a strange decision aimed at simplifying the floor design but not the best one.

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Hello! Great to hear from someone who worked on the National! Interesting info on the original design of the bus. Wish I knew that when I was making the video! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

If you were going to travel in a single deck bus, during the 1970's and 1980's, then you know that it was most likely to be a Leyland National. During the 1980's Crosville converted some of their Nationals, by replacing the Leyland engine for a Gardener engine.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for relaying your experience with the National! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@Scots_Diesel

18 күн бұрын

In England yes, but until de regulation in Scotland it was mostly Alexander Y types on leyland aec albion seddon Bristol ford or Bedford chassis

Over here in The Netherlands there were several bus companies that got a few for testing. Expectations were high, disapointed all companies were at the end of the trials. Point is, the British automotive industry went through a very rough time. Perhaps you know about the power of the unions and the many strikes that took place around the period the National was developed and introduced. I take the Morris Marina as an example what in fact was the result of failing leadership and an overly powerful union climate in the UK. The Morris Marina probably was the worst ever car produced in the UK. Due to this situation Leyland couldn’t effectively compete anymore with European manufacturers and even upcoming manufacturers from Japan like Toyota, Nissan and Honda. Halfway the 70’s it was too late for BL to survive, even when the company was nationalised. The demise of the company took down all divisions, also those that could have been saved like the bus and truck divisions. These divisions were taken over by DAF (truck division) from Holland and Volvo (bus division) from Sweden, cleverly using Leyland inventions and specialties. As for the car division, BL even used Japanese know how by simply changing the badges on what were essentially Honda products. These Hondas in disguise marked the end of what was once the most brilliant industry in the UK. So sad to see that all happen. I owned three Leyland buses that were used by the Dutch public transport that was more or less owned and controlled by NS, the Dutch railways. These were essentially Leyland Leopards as for the running parts and bodied by local companies like Verheul (temporarily owned by Leyland like DAB from Denmark) and Den Oudsten from Woerden. Both out of business now. Our three Leopards still exist, one is even used on a daily basis. The other two are on static display at the National Bus Museum in Hoogezand. Greetings from Hekelingen, The Netherlands. Bye, Willem.

@JeffreyOrnstein

15 күн бұрын

Hello! Wow, that is a lot of great information about the National and its situation in The Netherlands - very interesting! Thank you for watching from Europe and for your comment!

@gardengeek3041

8 күн бұрын

Brilliant summary of a complex history. Thanks!

@castirondude

5 күн бұрын

Are you Willem from "de busbrief"?

@leyland9999

5 күн бұрын

@@castirondude No, But I know him quite well.

@melvynbuckton6881

Күн бұрын

I had a marina. Liked it. Lasted 17 years

The bus of my childhood, I lived in Midland Red territory and my local garage had quite a few, I can still hear the clatter of the 510 engine, the buses went on to live long lives with the Greenaway project by East Lancs, where a bus was stripped to its main skeleton then re-panelled to update it, also you forgot to mention the B21 which was basically a National Chassis which could be bodied by other body builders, once again a fantastic video, well presented, thank you

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thanks for the additional info! If there's something interesting abou the Greenway or B21, it may make a good video in the future! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

An interesting addition to the National's story, Jeffrey - thanks. These buses were a regular feature throughout my childhood in North-West England in the 70s, taking me to and from school, out and about in and around the town I grew up in, excursions out into the countryside with my parents, etc, so I'll always have a soft spot for them 😊

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Hello! Glad you liked the video! Thanks for your memory of the National! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I went school on these buses in Canberra Australia through the late 70's .Always remember the huge cloud of exhaust smoke as they took off.

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

LOL, must have not been healthy, either. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@stevenwalker1883

14 күн бұрын

One of those lovely memories to chuckle at ! These remind me of the Dennis dart a little, soon there will only be quiet clean low emission and electrics, I know that's good but it was nice to have louder raucous diesel engines, very soon we won't have the old Renault diesels anymore , the new electrics are very nice though ! .

It is fascinating and refreshing to hear a person in North America talking about British buses with such enthusiasm and authority. Jeffrey sounds like my husband with an American accent!

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Thank you so much, Melanie!! I very much appreciate your nice comment!!! Thank you for watching!!

Hi everyone, just to let you know the Jamaica 🇯🇲 Omnibus Service (JOS) purchased 160 Leyland National (MK1) buses back in the 70's (1973-1976 approximately) These were the N buses from N1 to N160. The first 10 units were semiautomatic and the rest were full automatic. However from the start, those buses were not suitable for the tough and hot Jamaican conditions. Furthermore the mechanics had a hard time maintaining them and parts were hard to come by. Therefore they had to change to a different brand of buses. They bought Albion Clydesdale and Guy Victory(approximately 100 units).

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for the additional info about the Jamaican Leyland Nationals! Didn't know how many they had!

@douglasrainford5533

14 күн бұрын

Hi Jeff, thanks for your reply. There's one more thing I left out about those buses. Because of the vandalism in that country, the passenger seats were being cut up. Therefore JOS had no choice but to order those 160 units with TOUGH FIBREGLASS seats.

I’ve just found this video. What the heck is an American doing being interested in this thing, which were so ubiquitous in the 70s and 80s and made so many of us feel travel sick on hot days, being swung about on the back seats, with that rumbling engine beneath? United Counties Number 29 Luton Bus Station to Dunstable via Marsh Farm, or 31 Leagrave to Luton Airport via Marsh Farm. The memories are flooding back. Thanks for a great video.

@JeffreyOrnstein

15 күн бұрын

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video! If you think this is odd, wait until you see my next video....an American doing a topic on a British bus so obscure, it sure will be even stranger. Hopefully you'll stay tuned! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@jamesfrench7299

14 күн бұрын

They were a pretty decent modern bus in the day and while the engine carried on a bit noise wise, it was actually a very smooth running unit which hummed through the cabin rather than vibrate. I always found them impressive in person.

An excellent video which I thoroughly enjoyed. Good memories of these buses from my childhood in Berkshire and Buckinghamshire. It was a treat if a driver had rolled up the blind behind the cab seat so the passenger on the bench seat behind could see what was going on! Great sounding engine if incredibly smokey, wouldn't be welcome in a low emission zone today! Most had been replaced by the time I came to drive buses but I enjoyed driving a preserved example a friend owned. The rail bus equivalent has only recently been retired although some other older bus-derived classes built in the 1980s can still be found on the UK rail network. If you haven't got a copy Beyond Reality by Doug Jack is well worth a read from a Leyland insiders perspective. Other books are of course a available! I was also a great fan of the National's intended successor the 'B60' Lynx. But that's another story I guess! Keep up the good work and thank you for posting the video. Matt (from the UK)

@JeffreyOrnstein

16 күн бұрын

Hello! Glad you liked it and thanks for your memories! Yes, I actually do have a copy of Beyond Reality! Great book! Maybe a video should be made of it!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Great little documentary and as as always well researched and presented. Kindest regards from London

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! I appreciate your very nice comment!!! Thank you for watching from London, and for your comment!

I remember these! I also recall the Leyland Lynx, which was the successor to this and the window issue was quite cleverly designed with the same length all the way from front to back but with added decals at the back, so the windows could be lower at the front. They also sounded very distinct! I remember when they were replaced and still miss them as they were kind of amazing vehicles. The ones I used to ride were Cardiff Bus/Bws Caerdydd, and some were Rhondda and Caerphilly Transport. My father used to drive these for Cardiff Bus and later Bebbs, along with Optare Clippers and Leyland Olympians & Titans. :D

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Wow, nice memories of the National! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@jamesfrench7299

16 күн бұрын

Cardiff had some ZF Nationals!

@Technology-Repair-Druid

16 күн бұрын

@@jamesfrench7299 That is very cool! :D I also remember that when I lived in the Ffynon Taff area, there was a company called IBT, or Islwyn Borough Transport, and they used to run Leyland Leopards. They were a baby blue/white combination and although a bit of a nightmare to get onto as a kid, they were literally coaches, so they were ridiculously comfortable. I also recall the engine on those was very unique in that it sounded amazing! And the Leyland Olympian was also one of my favourites as they had some amazing turbo-whine. Absolutely amazing old beasts. :D

I ran a few of these in Perth Western Australia. You had to hold the wheel tight. They would lean terribly dropping into a sweeping bend but the airbags would pump themselves up through the corner. Then, leaving the corner, they would flop the other way. I fitted 'NuWay' level valves which were much faster acting and the National went into corners like a go-kart. They had a flared fan-like exhaust and would blow clouds of black smoke at take-off. I never cured that. The rivets were a sod to drill out. The tyres had too little clearance around the wheel arch causing the tyres to get excessively hot on freeways causing regular tyre issues. The motors hung together well but the injection pumps would die. Injection pumps killed my buses off eventually. I ran out of injection pumps. They were a very good looking bus. The removeable skirts were magic. Just swap a panel with a screwdriver to repair. The door operating mechanism was problematic.

@JeffreyOrnstein

33 минут бұрын

Hello! Wow, that is some experience you had with the Nationals! Thank you very much for watching!

As I live in Leyland who's Father-in-law worked on the National, this was a very interesting watch. During the late 80s, 90s and 2000s I used to see JS Fishwick Nattionals across Leyland on 111 and 113 service to Preston after marrying a Leyland girl, good memories, thank you.

@JeffreyOrnstein

31 минут бұрын

Hello! Thank you very much for your memoris of the National! And thank you very much for watching!!

One of the best sounding and distinctive engine sounds ever , the mk2 sounded nice as well with its deep growl

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Interesting! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@adamdavies163

14 күн бұрын

Absolutely, I was about to make the same comment. The 510 engine had an unmistakeable sound, like no other. I also remember watching them start from cold, they would crank for minutes on end (there are videos of them being started on YT). I took a journey on a MK1 one recently at a bus show and the engine sound took me right back to my school days. The MK2 buses did sound more powerful and throaty, somehow less strained.

Great video. In the early '70s, I used to take the bus to school and back. One afternoon, I was waiting at the bus stop when a 'Midland Red' Leyland National appeared. I had never seen anything like it. Compared with the BMMO S17 (single-decker) or D9 (double-decker) buses that I was used to, this was like a space-ship.

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

Glad you liked it!! Thanks for your memory of the Nationals! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I loved Leyland Nationals as a kid - the seemed so much faster than the other ones, or at least certainly sounded faster! I think the irony of their design is that BL did loads of testing in extreme environments - the arctic and deserts, plus wind tunnels etc, but the one thing they didn't do was to test the prototypes in real- life day to day bus operation! So there were lots of snags, and the engine choice of the 501 engine was probably a mistake. On the plus side, the body design probably was a complete success. The mk2 version with the 0680 engine and lots of issues fixed was a seriously impressive bus, but it came too late and they didn't sell very many.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Wow, that's very interesting to hear about their testing practices!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

And there was the infamous Pacer - a commuter train based on a National bus body on a chassis based on what had been a 4-wheeled rail research chassis. Developed in the 1980s as a cheap stop gap for British Rail - still in service in the early 2020s. So bad that many people ended up 'loving' it - uncomfortable, noisy, but it worked. Formally known as the class 140 to 144s.

@JeffreyOrnstein

12 күн бұрын

Oh yes, the Pacer! Maybe a subject for another video! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@TheErador

9 күн бұрын

They were awful but on the other hand quite spacious and light.

I remember them being trialled by SELNEC. They were numbered in the EX series along with some Metro-Scanias and a couple of Mercedes. The National became the standard single decker for SELNEC and GMT.

@JeffreyOrnstein

7 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Born in '74 I loved this bus' styling as growing lad. Great video Jeffrey👍

@JeffreyOrnstein

10 күн бұрын

I'm really glad you liked the video!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I’m not surprised the SBG (Scottish Bus Group) used the older and more reliable Leyland Leopard Alexander Y type as the default single deck bus in Scotland although some municipal bus companies such as GGPTE (Greater Glasgow Passenger Transport Executive) and LRT (Lothian Regional Transport) in Edinburgh bought some National 1s It wasn’t until the introduction of the National 2 we began to see SBG buying them. Barrhead (small town near Glasgow) independent operator McGill’s had a sizeable fleet of National 1 & 2s, even a Danish built articulated National 2 which was a partnership between Leyland & Danish coach builder DAB.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Interesting to read about the Nationals in Scotland! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

As a former NBC manager I well remember the horror with which many of us greeted the National. In its early days the engineers were terrified by its complexity and fuel consumption, the drivers unnerved by how light it was to drive and the passengers alarmed by how fast it could be thrown around by thoughtless drivers. However, everyone could see that it was a quantum leap in terms of ergonomic design, the engineers soon tamed its worst design faults, the drivers soon adapted, and it set the standard for a generation of new buses. It was originally intended to last 12 years, but in the event, many ran for 25 years, often retrofitted with DAF, Volvo or Gardner engines. The real reason it failed to gain wide acceptance outside NBC, or in export markets, is that many operators prefer to support local coachbuilders, and many countries specify a minimum percentage of local content (usually the body), which was not available with an integral vehicle.

@JeffreyOrnstein

12 күн бұрын

Great to hear from a former NBC manager and your experience with the Nationals! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Thank you for another great video. I have fond childhood memories of these. Noisy, smokey and a bumpy ride, but they had some sort of character and charm that I always liked!

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Glad you liked it!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Mate, I tell Ya: talking about the heating brought back so many bad winter memories in a popsicle called bus. Although we rode only M.A.N(Büssing), Mercedes or Kässbohrer Setras to school. But they were all old and worn (in the 80´s) exept that one guy with his Setra. That bus was top class, it had carpet and was actually warm(!) inside. The buses used for us school kids were all wrecks back in the days... One MAN lost its steering in the turn circle. Hydraulic broke, it lost all its oil. Two hours later the driver, our vickar and a tech from the shop next door got it working enough to do the tour. The bus ended as an office on a used car lot, it was rusted thru all the way... Today buses look like shit. Thanks a lot for a trip down memory lane!

@JeffreyOrnstein

7 күн бұрын

Hello! Wow, what a story about the MAN bus!! Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!

Oh nice. I used to drive them when I first started driving coaches. We had some second hand ones our company bought. They were ok, a bit noisy, but that's why they put the engine at the back nearer the passengers! Not sure about the heating as you mentioned in the video, it never seemed to work if I remember right. The engines used to explode though, throwing piston rods out the side, resulting in a trail of oil down the road. Someone told me way back, it was because they designed it with the engine laying on it's side to keep the floor height low, but the oil used to pool to one side going round corners. Also the simple riveted construction enabled them to be repaired quickly in a bus garage so they didn't need to go away to a specialist bodyworks place, quick and simple keeping the vehicle on the road earning money. Anyway a nice look back at these numerous buses. All the best Dave.

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your interesting comment on your experience driving the Nationals! Guess it had both good points and...not so good. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@cedarcam

17 күн бұрын

I saw one explode in a bus station. A tyre fitter for the bus company had just said to me that engines about to go and it did in a big way.

I remember regularly travelling in those Nationals when commuting to college with my fellow students. Our preferred raised section at the rear was right over the engine and it would get really hot there during the summer.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your own experience with the National!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Happy late 4th, Jeffery. Thanks as always

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello Jason!! Happy 4th of July to you, too!! And as always, thank you for watching!!!

I remember these as a child, the national 2 looked out of this world compared to the buses they replaced by my local operator which came from the 1950s .Great video

@JeffreyOrnstein

15 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

That was a proper geeky synopsis of the Leyland National. Well Done! ;)

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

LOL, glad you liked it! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

JYO751N was originally one of the Midland Bank mobile banks, later converted for passenger use and re-engined with a Volvo unit. I drove it in the late 90s and it was unusual for having a fully automatic gearbox, compared to the usual semi-automatic. It felt like a new bus, so tight and little clatter.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thanks for the extra info on the Midland Bank National - very interesting to hear! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I had no Idea there were so many versions of this, however they were being phased out when I was a kid. Great video. Enjoyed watching.

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

I'm really glad you liked it! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

So what were the 'amazing flaws'? You seem to have skipped over that! I remember these busses as a kid and they seemed very modern (at the time) and comfortable.

@JeffreyOrnstein

2 күн бұрын

Hello....sorry you didn't like the video. Thanks for watching.

@GaryWhittingham

13 сағат бұрын

​ @JeffreyOrnstein was thinking the same... the video is great, but the title is daft...

Hi. ONCE I TRAVELLED AND THE BACK WAS ON FIRE. SMOLE COOMING FROM THE MOTORS AND VENTS AT THE BACK. I used to travel on the leyland national in the 70s and 80s on short local services as a child in Yorkshire. The seating was leather-red on the buses with half doors and orange on those full length. There was backward seating at the front of the bus and a single sideways seat. Some buses had no backwards seats but one long side seat usually orange and a large luggage rack. The half doors had a step up to the back seats for smoking passengers, divided by two glass sheets. Non- smoking at the front. They were spacious and comfortable to ride but the engine noise, particularly on the hills in Yorkshire was extreme and unique. Also, the back of the bus would often get caught as it climbed. I used to enjoy listening to the belt at the back of the bus when it stopped, for passengers. It also had a particular sound.. There was plenty of standing room with leather holders hanging from the ceiling. These buses were painted in the National red colour scheme with large NATIONAL symbol and lettering, They then were painted in the adopted West Yorkshire PTE Green and Cream. Red suited them better. The seats were also changed from leather to a harsher brown and orange chequered uncomfy surface with brown leather trim. The backwards seating , the glass partitions, half doors and non smoking area disappeared.

@JeffreyOrnstein

10 күн бұрын

Hello! Oh my gosh! Very interesting recollection of riding the Nationals, wow! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@eurofreak74

9 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein cheers

Fishwick's of Leyland probably got their vehicles cheap as being demonstrators (something they had done with many preceding Leyland models). Ribble too were a test bed for Leyland products

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Ah, very interesting...didn't know that! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I liked the National They were very noisy and smoked a lot but never got stuck in snow unlike the other busses in the fleet. There was a 1 in 7 hill ( 14% ) going to work and one year the gritters were on strike. The driver said he was not sure we would make it with about a foot of snow but would try in low gear. We pushed our way through with snow up to the windscreen and made it with no problem. In later years the doors caused problems and the centre door ones had them removed, a micro switch on the engine bay door used to need a kick on the door before they would start, also the air suspension got none existent, they were pretty old by then so overall outlasted many other busses.

@JeffreyOrnstein

16 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for relaying your interesting experience with the National! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@chrislee5981

15 күн бұрын

I was a passenger on a National that got stuck in a deep snow once. The driver put it in gear and floored it. Nothing happened and after 5 mins I got fed up and got up to tell him that merely flooring the throttle and spinning the wheels will never work. I got within a few feet of the platform when I realised how wrong I was. It came out of that drift at warp 8! Just like a kids pushalong toy when you set the wheels spinning and drop it on the ground! The driver explained that the combined effort of the wheels digging down and the heat and weight of the engine meant they acted like giant milling cutters, cutting through the snow and ice until they touched something solid. As a driver a few years ago I too got my Enviro 400 bus stuck in snow and used this technique to free it.

@cedarcam

14 күн бұрын

@@chrislee5981 Great to hear it worked. I had a driver try that with a leopard and it just burnt the tread off the tyres, with no weight of the engine over the back end, other drivers had asked eveyone to move to the back and that had worked too

I remember well travelling on the Leyland National as a young man and was struck by it's modern design and the smoothness of its transmission and engine. The pod on the rear of the early versions was to draw in air for cooling the engine and for heating of the interior. It was a shame it didn't continue as a passenger bus but continued as a train in the north of the UK known as a Pacer train using the same body and engine but with a redesigned transmission and a twin axle boggie at either end of the carriage.

@JeffreyOrnstein

13 күн бұрын

Thanks for the extra info on the National! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I remember going to school on these when they were introduced - brand new. The back seats were definitely preferred for us kids as it was difficulty to see out of the front ones!

@JeffreyOrnstein

3 күн бұрын

LOL! They must have fought over those back seats! Thanks for watching!

That you for this insight into these busses, I remember them on our local services, replacing the AEC Merlin/Swifts (SM) and even RF's on some routes. They had a very distinctive sound especially when sitting in the back and the ride in the seats behind the rear wheels could be quite violent on sharp corners.

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

I'm really glad you liked the video! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Fascinating. As a school kid I used to take buses every day and Fishwick were the best because they drove faster than the competition, Ribble. The sight of the green bus when I was waiting at the bus stop was always great because it would be an exciting ride.

@JeffreyOrnstein

10 күн бұрын

Thanks for your memories of the National! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Thanks for the informative video. They were a bus from my childhood and I have a soft spot for them. As mentioned by others, it's fascinating that they were used to produce the Pacer trains too.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your thought on the National! Yes, those Pacers!! A couple of Leyland railbuses made it to the USA for testing. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Nationals had a massive floor carrying out exhaust outlet test during overnight shift Nothing wakes surrounding area of neighbours up faster than a national peak reving through the night

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! LOL! Thank you for the additional detail on the national!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Re the Ribble National in the river. From the buildings etc. I believe the photo is taken in Rawtenstall (Lancashire). To the right, the building with the curved window is on the right side of Bury Rd., with the railway station just out of shot nearer the camera on the same side. The wooden building is still there (now 'Bread Shed') as is the footbridge. To the left of the footbridge is a supermarket (now Tesco). Check out what it looks like now on Google Street View!

@JeffreyOrnstein

15 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for the information!!! There was another comment on the location, and I've added it to the description. I'll check what is written, and may add this if it gives more description to it, and I'll give you credit. If that's ok with you. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@user-zr2zp7ek4p

13 күн бұрын

I forgot to mention in my previous post. Some more information came to light re my request for information on the National in the river. A reply stated "I have it written down as 16th November 1984,fleet number 457 (NTC437M)" Someone else also put a colour photo of it as well.

My understanding is that the Leyland National failed in London because the rear engine design overheated badly in standing traffic, kinda a no-no in central London. London Transport had purchased or had options on a huge fleet, which was passed on to other operators. The mid to late seventies I lived in Redditch in Midland Red territory. You could certainly sense how light the steering was even as a passenger. Redditch was a "new town" and had dedicated bus highways covering half the town. Nationals seemed in their element and were really nippy on the dedicated roads, and the drivers would really push them.

At the National Bus launch at the CV Motor Show in Earl's Court, they had a version for use in major disasters. It included several stretchers lying flat which could enter and leave via the opening rear window. It included various medical facilities, and a CCTV camera on a pole. I remember my dad reaching over and using the camera to zoom in on a woman working an adjacent stand.

@JeffreyOrnstein

13 күн бұрын

Yes, you are right! It was called the Lifeliner. Didn't realized I missed that until after uploading, unfortunately. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Thanks for this, one of the most informative videos I've found on the National so far. Great job. Sure, the National gets criticism, what doesn't, but it does have it's band of followers over here in the UK. I love riding them at meets when possible, and enjoy that characteristic diesel knock "crackle".

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Hello! Glad you liked the video!! Must be fun to ride a restored National at rallies and meets! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@Wheels-Wheels-Wheels

17 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein Missed out on the National at yesterday's event, but came away happy after a decent journey in a Cummins engined Olympian instead.

As a former bus driver, i had the pleasure of driving the Leyland National for 3 years. They were a bus drivers dream. Always had to bear in mind the long overhang at the back. They were a very comfortable bus to drive. The power steering made it a dream. In fact, sometimes, the steering was just a bit too light at times. The only real problem with them, was the thermostat. They would often fail. Heating on in the summer, heating off in the winter. Nothing as a driver you could do about it. The gearbox was first class. The setup we had, was that we could leave the gearbox in fully automatic, or we could change manually. Passengers used to love travelling on these buses, as they were very smooth, with a nice soft suspension.

@JeffreyOrnstein

15 күн бұрын

Hello! Thanks very much for your experience in driving the National - very interesting!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@chrischillingworth4812

13 күн бұрын

When the National first came out I remember a driver (probably transferred from a Bristol RE) complaining that "It goes very well in a straight line, especially when you don't want it to!" The RE had a Rear Engine as the name suggests, but the gearbox was mounted ahead of the axle, which gave a much better weight balance. The National had the engine and gearbox behind the axle and without many passengers it could lift its front wheels and lose steering. As a passenger they were very smooth and refined except for the clouds of black smoke, but I preferred the REs especially with Gardner engines. Excellent buses, no wonder Leyland bought them and closed them down. My all-time favourite was the RE coach with the high floor, high speed axle and air suspension, like running down the M1 on a magic carpet.

Isn't this the ones used for the pacer trains? You gotta cover that now 😅 Great video bud 👍🏼

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Yes, it is the body used for the Pacers. I've actually done a video on LEV-2, a railbus that had a National body that was tested in the USA. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@FDNY101202

18 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein oh that's true you did do that one 👌🏽

I use to go on them quite a lot operated by my local National Bus Company subsidy, United.They looked quite modern compared with some of the other buses United had.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your experience with the National! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I think the Leyland National was ahead of it's time and a great looking bus.Great piece by the way!

@JeffreyOrnstein

15 күн бұрын

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

We had these in Canberra, Australia back in the 70s. 17 built in the UK and 54 built in Australia. Our bus service, ACTION, had three covered bus depots for overnight parking but these buses could only park in one because the air-con unit was too high for two depots.

@JeffreyOrnstein

5 күн бұрын

Interesting info about the Nationals in Canberra! Thanks for watching!

@mddawson1

5 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein Here is a link to the ACTION operating manual for the Leyland Nationals: www.archives.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/562595/Leyland_bus_manual.pdf

I often caught one of those on my way to school.. one couldn't help but notice the unusual clatter of that engine!

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

LOL! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Another great video Jeffery. Unless I missed something here, wouldn’t it have made sense to build a single deck bus based on the long proven double deckers that were being built in the 1970’s and 1980’s.

@JeffreyOrnstein

16 күн бұрын

Glad you liked it - I think the concept of the National was different than the standard double deck chassis of the day, being modular...different construction methods used for variation, would be one reason why they didn't go for a more proven type of a bus. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I remember them on routes 61, 126, 227 and the modified "Red Arrow" services from London's mainline stations all under London Transport. The red arrows had faster acceleration and missing the mid section seating plus a turnstile alongside the driver with his cash only drop box. The drop box was a perspex box with a funnel atop you dropped your coins into, the driver could see how much you put in and if all well dropped the coins into his cash box and gave you a ticket.

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your memory of the National in London! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Ha, literally bought a GM livery Mk1 short model while on holiday/vacation last week. Love this kind of coincidence. Also great informative video, keep up the great work!

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Hello! Glad you liked the video!! Must be an awesome model...I was going to put in a picture of a Manchester Mk1, but didn't get to it. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

And I'll add, they were running in the late 90s as well

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Great video, well done. The National was a horrible bus to ride on as a passenger. It was OK if you sat at the back, but as this was usually for smoking passengers you would have other issues to worry about. I didn't mind having one on a short hop in to town, but if I was going on a longer trip and a National appeared I would always find something else to do for 20 or 30 minutes and hope the next service produced a Bristol VR or Leyland Leopard. The coach seated variants were more acceptable, but they lacked the plastic shield between the lower and upper decks which was present on the bus seated ones in order to stop the flying passenger issues discussed in your video. Most operators at the time really wanted a full air-suspension version of the Bristol RE, but as Leyland owned Bristol, they saw to it that the Bristol RE was put out of production to force operators hands. The only exception to this being in Northern Ireland where they flat refused to buy anything but RE's for suburban use and so a limited production run had to be kept open for them to stop losing that business. The National's also had a tendency to twist when going around sharp corners, most notable when looking in your wing mirrors... I've always liked Leyland vehicles, the Leopard (even though brakes appeared to be option...) and the Olympian which was a lovely smooth bus to drive. However I was glad to see the back of Nationals.

@JeffreyOrnstein

10 күн бұрын

I"m very glad you liked the video! Very interesting to hear your experience with the National!! And yes, the RE was a great bus! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

6:22 a Canberra ACTION bus. They were already phasing them out in '86. I remember they had semi automatic gearshift to the right of the steering wheel. I always thought they were quirky and interesting busses.

@JeffreyOrnstein

6 күн бұрын

Thanks for the info on the Canberra bus! Thanks for watching!

Cool video. I went to school on a bus like that in the mid eighties. All the best. Cheers

@JeffreyOrnstein

7 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

West Midlands Travel (the bus company formed from the West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive when the law changed) used to have a fleet of Leyland Nationals. They were replaced in the 1990s with the Leyland Lynx, which had 2-part folding doors with an unglazed 4-part section at the bottom.

@JeffreyOrnstein

3 күн бұрын

Thanks for the additional info on the Nationals! Thanks for watching!

Some clips I’ve never seen before. Thanks I will check the web site out. Surprised you never mentioned leylands insistance of only fitting the 510 engine which was one of the main disputes of the era due to its headless design. Another video perhaps ? Good work.

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Glad you liked the video! Yes, you are right, I didn't mention the 510. But perhaps as you said, maybe for another video. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Im pretty certain Fishwick & Son was a subsidiary of Ribble Motor Services, one of the largest independent bus companies in the UK. Along with many bus companies, Ribble was subsumed by the National Bus Company with the National itself designed as a standard bus for the NBC.

@JeffreyOrnstein

10 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your interesting comment!

I worked for Taff Ely council who had the first production automatìc National. That one was not too bad to drive, but the gearchange could be brutal. On a bus depending on high standing loads it was virtually impossible to get an acceptably comfortable upchange with Z.F. 2speed automatic.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for the additional info on the National, and how it was to drive one! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@highpath4776

18 күн бұрын

How did it compare to the Metro Scania ?

@user-mv6li7fi8e

18 күн бұрын

@@highpath4776 i don't know.I did not work there when they had Metro. Scanias.They had all gone by my tme, but I did here that th

@user-mv6li7fi8e

18 күн бұрын

Sorry I excommunicated myself. Apparently0 no one would drive thhe M S s when it was icy or snowing as they were uncontrollable on slippery hills.

@highpath4776

18 күн бұрын

@@user-mv6li7fi8e I once found the hill down to Newport town centre - I was driving a 35 year old Morris Minor (I had avoided the hills in the Bargoed area but got caught out on that one, fortunately I was not fully loaded up and descended with care- and it was a dry summer )

The very first Nationals had a serious flaw, the body would suddenly roll on the suspension when cornering, the sudden redistribution of weight made life very interesting for the driver, especially in the wet, the Goodyear Unisteel tyres they came fitted with were poor in the wet and would let go very quickly and without warning. This flaw was soon rectified by returning them to British Leyland to be retrofitted with body dampers, the front tyres were changed in the depot to Michelin Radials which made them much better in the wet, (The Goodyear tyres remained on the rear) the second-generation buses were much better, But it was only when the Mk 2 came along did we get a bus that was warm, powerful and good to drive, it was a vast improvement on the first efforts and was really a very good bus.

@JeffreyOrnstein

15 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for the additional information on the Nationals!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

A follow up to the National story are the rebodied examples called the National Greenway. Giving extra life to older vehicles during the 1990s and into the 21st century.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Yes...the Greenway may be a good topic for a future video if there's an interesting story to it. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

We often went in these Nationals in Leicester. The 98 Thurnby Lodge (AKA The Bandit Bus) was the well known one. My school bus was one for a while before going back to the Elite II

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

This is new to me. I wonder if you will do a UK failure of a bus - but one I am very fond of, being from the area that some of them ran in (Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, UK). I ask for the... Albion Lowlander! The first bus I remember from my childhood (Closely followed by Leyland Atlantean's with the infamous "Kissing" Roe bodies - they genuinely looked like they wanted to kiss you! - and WYPTE'S Scania Metropolitan's). The Lowlander was a low-height variant of the highly successful Leyland Titan. The driver compartment was slightly too small, everything was inaccessible for mechanics, the gearboxes could be temperamental and were prone to bodywork damage. But in two companies, they were loved - my native Yorkshire Woollen, where they were liked as a solid all-rounder and East Midlands, who adored them for their SUPERLATIVE hill climbing ability.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for your very interesting comment with some nice ideas! I have a few more British bus ideas myself, but I'll look into these that you mention - if I can find enough information and and if there's a really crazy angle to the story, I'll try to do it in the future! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@highpath4776

18 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein THE crazy one of course has to be the Guy Wulfrainian , followed by the Daimler Roadliner.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

@@highpath4776 Yes! The Wulfrunian is a bus I want to do a video on soon! I do know about it. I know I've read about the Roadliner, but have to look into it more. Thanks.

@cedarcam

17 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyOrnstein West Riding in Yorkshire had Wulfunians. They removed 4 seats from the upstairs front because the drivers complained the steering was too heavy with people sitting ahead of the front wheels. They rolled about as well and my scariest ever bus ride was on one that almost overturned on a road junction with adverse camber. It went so far over the body panels scraped the road on the drivers side and left a gouge in the road. It was caused by almost everyone being on that side of the bus. I got off the bus at the stop just after the junction and saw the damage.

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

@@cedarcam Thanks for this account!! I might like to use it in the video, just as a first-hand experience of riding in a Wulf. I will give you credit if you want. I only see "cedarcam", but if you want your actual name used, let me know. Or if you do not want this used, it's ok too, and I won't!

Peter Wyngard had a pretty extraordinary life. He actually grew up in a Japanese concentration camp during the war, which was more than what Jason King could claim...

@JeffreyOrnstein

3 күн бұрын

Wow, didn't know that about Wyngard. Thanks for watching!

Designed like an aircraft, built like a car

@JeffreyOrnstein

12 күн бұрын

LOL, you are probably right! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

my city had the Leyland National bus for public and school when I was at high school . Do remember them as a fine bus to ride in

@JeffreyOrnstein

16 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Perhaps the "Business Computer" would have been better marketed as "the probably bigest Limousine in the World"😂

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

LOL, yes, maybe that would have worked! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

We still rode a Leyland national to school and back from 2008-2013 when the Leyland Olympics were off the road

@JeffreyOrnstein

4 күн бұрын

Thank you for your memories of the Leyland National! Thank you for watching!

I hope you can cover two Iconic Scottish designs, The Volvo Ailsa, and the Alexander Y type bus and coach body - which was fitted to many different manufacturers chassis.

@JeffreyOrnstein

17 күн бұрын

Hello! Yes, I really like the Alexander Y. Very stylish. I included one in the beginning. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I personally loved this type of bus and always feel nostalgic when I see one in a video like this

@JeffreyOrnstein

8 күн бұрын

That's nice to hear! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Hello from the uk, i used to remember riding on these buses in the early 90s in Manchester :)

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for watching from the UK and for your comment!

Dude, I drove both the semi-auto Mk 1 around 1978/9, and the Mk 2 fully auto when it first came out, for Bristol Omnibus (publicly owned corporation run bus company, I learned on a Bristol FLF with a 'crash box', great fun). The Mk 1 was weird to drive; the steering was assisted, but not self-centring, in fact it often felt harder to pull back from full lock than getting there in the first place. It took some adjusting to. The engine was SMALL, with a turbo, the idea being that it would be economical to run. Sadly, as little as 4 mpg (Imperial, of course!) meant they were often governed down to where the turbo hardly spun up, with 6 mpg, but terrible acceleration. They crashed and rattled a lot, the older Bristol REs were much nicer to drive (and less 'crashy') even with no power steering. The Mk 2 was not much better. They had a slightly larger engine, but were also governed quite hard, so that on certain hills - Rownham Hill, plus one in Portishead - left in auto they surged ahead in 2nd, lurched into 3rd, but the torque couldn't pull it and so it dropped straight back to 2nd. For about half a mile... You could hold it back in 2nd, but it was so slow. Nobody liked them much. Sometime later one or two were adapted to run on railway tracks! They were really rubbish then!! But thanks for the memory prompt (-:)~

@JeffreyOrnstein

Күн бұрын

Hello! Wow, thanks for all of that info...kind of justifies the video, LOL. Too bad I didn't know these details, I would have added it to the video. Thanks for watching!!!

Very interesting content. As a bus enthousiast you should look at the Bova Futura, a Dutch bus that was made for decades in its original design. Nowadays there is a new model made by VDL, the VDL Futura. Both original and new model are very popular in the Netherlands and are also seen in many European countries.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Hello! Thank you for the info about the Bova Futura. I will look into it...if there's an interesting, odd angle to its story, it could be a subject for a video! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@highpath4776

18 күн бұрын

Only went on a new Bova Futura coach, the most uncomfortable seats ever I have travelled on (the best a mix of the Bristol RE suburban coach or a touring Leyland Leopard with Plaxton body

@rbrouns9569

18 күн бұрын

@@highpath4776 The bus company who buys the bus chooses the seats they want. I travelled a lot with the old Futura and the seats were varying from very comfortable to awful. The times i sat in the new Futura, the seats were comfortable. It's of course also a personal taste about what is comfortable.

@highpath4776

18 күн бұрын

@@rbrouns9569 I did note the seat maker - forgot it now but might find reference in my archives of journals. I think they were a relatively new (to UK??) company trying to sell a "premium" range of seats.

Thanks for another pleasantly dictated and interesting video. You've missed one of the most interesting aspects - look up the Pacer, a train initially based on the Leyland National!

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

I'm really glad you liked it! Oh, yes, the Pacer...maybe that will be for another video!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I used to go to school on one, and Bristol VRs. Unforgettable sound. I can hear it now 😂😂

@JeffreyOrnstein

14 күн бұрын

LOL, must have been an awesome sound! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

My secondary school bus was a leyland national 252 service , i can still hear that noise to this day , how they used to shake n rattle !!! I love everything British Leyland!!!!!!

@JeffreyOrnstein

16 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

We had them in Nottingham they were great to ride in smooth and large inside.

@JeffreyOrnstein

13 күн бұрын

Good to hear! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

To be fair, the national bus was a great design which later went on to become a train design. When I was 21 I started driving buses. Many of them were the Leyland National Mk 1. The Mk 1 to me sounded great and drove really well and a brilliant lean and swoop over pavements. Although I hated the job because of the public arseholes that got on and off, whenever I dorve a Leyland National Mk 1 the driving time was a pleasure and seemed to pass by quickly.

@JeffreyOrnstein

6 күн бұрын

Hello! Yes, I really liked the way the Mark1 looked! Thanks for your bus driving memories! Thanks for watching!

Belgrade, Yugoslavia, use to have Leyland buses. They were known as having misterious semi-automatic transmission with no clutch. They also were had to kept running in the winter over night, as if engine drops to low temperature, it would not start.

@JeffreyOrnstein

5 күн бұрын

Hello! Wow, that's really interesting to hear about the Leylands in Belgrade! Thanks for watching!

Thanks always interesting and informative 😊

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for your comment!

I think that bus-bank would have been a big boon to bank robbers because they could just hijack the thing at gunpoint and there would be no worries about a getaway car.

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

LOL, that's funny. Perhaps they were a bit more civilized in the UK at that time, so it may have been a practical idea. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@ladyconstanceOBE

18 күн бұрын

All the cops would have to do is follow the trail of smoke. 😊

@scottyg7284

18 күн бұрын

We still have mobile banks here, and they don’t get robbed.

Spot the disproportionate influence on design of the transport unions in the 1970s; bus driver survives the crash, everyone else is a mangled mess of bodies or crushed to death.

@nedseagoon5101

17 күн бұрын

But, the passengers may spend 10-15-20 mins per day on the bus. The driver may spend 8 hours every day. The chances of him/her being involved in an accident are far greater.

@JeffreyOrnstein

16 күн бұрын

LOL, very interesting to consider! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@SirKenchalot

16 күн бұрын

@@nedseagoon5101 OK, so it's ok to sacrifice the lives of your customers, the ones who pay for the business and even the bus itself indirectly because the driver is there more often. The driver is also the only one on the bus who has the ability to cause the crash that kills his/her passengers too.

@nedseagoon5101

16 күн бұрын

@@SirKenchalot Yes. It’s all costed. It’s business. It’s not a Leyland thing. Most companies do this. It’s not new. Cost of R&D/modifications V compensation payouts.

@SirKenchalot

16 күн бұрын

@@nedseagoon5101 Says the guy who gets his economic lessons from HollyWood movies. It's not the cost of research versus compensation, it's the aims and outcomes of research and development. They spent money on research but their goal was to save the unionized worker and sacrifice the paying public.I agree it's not a Leyland thing as you'll find similar strategies in place across the West. During the outbreak of a certain virus recently, many unions wouldn't let their drivers drive in case the poor things got the sniffles though the consequential inconvenience or loss of income and provision of services that resulted was of no interest to them.

British rail also turned layland national bus into a train (“pacer”), by fitting the bus body to a freight wagon frame, during the 80s. They were meant to be used for 20 years as a cheap temporary measure, however they were in use for 37 years.

@JeffreyOrnstein

7 күн бұрын

Yes! Maybe a subject for another video! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

if you're gonna say why you like the Mk1 vs the Mk2, perhaps state the differences and why you like one over the other?

@JeffreyOrnstein

18 күн бұрын

Oh sorry....I liked the Mark 1 better because of its esthetics. Just the way it looked. Sorry it wasn't clear in the video. Thanks for watching.