Never once in the entire three seasons Clara spent with both Doctors did I expect him to say he loved her. It wasn't something he did. He couldn't say it to Rose, and that was a MUCH more explicitly romantic relationship, so why would he say it to Clara (even though I feel they had a deeper love and connection). I just didn't expect him to ever admit it. Until Hell Bent. When she asked him why he spent so long in the puzzle world. I figured, what else could he say? And then he said that he had a "duty of care." And I realized, and Clara did too, that he had been saying he loved her all along. Every time he told her that, he was really telling her he loved her. It was just such a beautiful realization, I think I actually gasped haha.

@tomnorton4277

Жыл бұрын

After Clara says "We should say things to each other" my head canon is that the Doctor told her the same secret that River Song whispered into his ear back in David Tennant's era. If any companion has earned the right to know the Doctor's true name, it's Clara Oswald. I think she deserved it a hell of a lot more than River did. I don't like Peter Capaldi very much but even I can admit that he knocked it out of the park in Heaven Sent and Hell Bent. He was a bit shaky in Face the Raven - at one point I even thought he would reveal to Clara that he'd PLANNED her death for some "greater good" - but that was Clara's episode, not his and he really stepped up his game for the 2 part finale. I also expected him to say "I love you" in Hell Bent. Peter Capaldi's a slow burn actor who takes a long time to get comfortable in a role. When he finally settles in, he's great but my main problem with him is that he takes WAY too long to reach that point. Every New Who Doctor before him slipped into the role as though they'd been playing it all their lives. Capaldi, despite being a lifelong fan, failed to do that in Season 8. Most Doctors are easily iconic in their own ways but Capaldi's just kind of there, similar to Peter Davison. For lack of a better description, he's too normal despite the fact that he was clearly trying to be one of the more alien Doctors. He's an experienced actor but he's not a talented one. All his skill comes from practicing his craft for nearly 5 decades (his first movie was in 1982 but he was doing stage work for about 8 years before that), not from natural charisma, presence or ability.

@DefaultName-du3kr

Жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 Man, I'm the opposite opinion on Series 8. They really softened his edges in the later series but 8/9 were my favorite with him. 12 is in my top 3 doctors.

@tamasczigola6392

Жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 but Clara already saw the Doctor's name written in the book when the Tardis exploded

@tomnorton4277

Жыл бұрын

@@tamasczigola6392 Then she forgot it once the timeline was erased at the end of the episode.

@tamasczigola6392

Жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 then she remembered it again once she was inside the giant Tardis at the doctor's grave.

oh, and the acting of Coleman and Capaldi is beyond incredible. They can act more with their eyes then all the characters in season 13 combined.

@drdolittle1085

2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps it was more than acting...? (kzread.info/dash/bejne/o2iJ2Ld8YafKo84.html) For sure it was! In the very best sense of meaning.

@tomnorton4277

2 жыл бұрын

I've seen Jenna use her eyes to convey emotion through contact lenses. My most notable example of this is the proposal scene in Victoria where Victoria is looking at Albert with such vulnerability that it's easy to forget that she's wearing contact lenses. The people who cast Ralph Fiennes in Harry Potter doubted he could express enough emotion if they gave Voldemort the red eyes he has in the books but Jenna proved in Victoria that it IS possible to wear contact lenses and still convey what a character is feeling through their eyes. Does that mean that Jenna Coleman's a better performer than Ralph Fiennes, one of England's best actors?

@triplejazzmusicisall1883

2 жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 Yep

@hyliastone286

Жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 Of course it does.

@mc.builder8267

Жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 hard to say as we haven’t even seen Ralph attempt to pull off the same stunt. It could be something that only actors with truly exceptional talent and skill can pull off, or it could be that any actor who can convey emotions with their eyes are able to do it but simply aren’t given the chance to prove it. Until we seen more of it it’s not a call we can yet make.

I think River said it best: _”it’s like loving the stars them selves, you don’t expect the sunset to admire you back.”_

I feel like the 12th doctor has aged like fine wine, the character arc (am i a good man) the superb acting, the chemistry, and the darker tone.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

The Sound Disciple. -- yup. The more you re-watch, the more rewarding those seasons become, as many anti-Capaldi DW fans and anti-Clara fans began to admit once the first season was available for re-watching. I recall a steady trickle of posts as time went on from haters who admitted rather wryly that they'd realized, upon looking at the Capaldi years again, they'd come to admire and enjoy what they'd thought they hated. My own explanation for this is that once you'd seen an episode, so you knew (upon watching it again) how the *plot* turned out, you could relax when you watched again, and see details confirming the high quality of the story -- the acting, the best bits of dialog, the pull of powerful moments that you might have missed altogether in the initial rush to see how the plot worked out.

Him playing Pretty Woman upon seeing Clara & Missy us one of my favorite moments

@starryknight565

Жыл бұрын

I think about this moment more than I'd like to admit 🙈😳

@portablesun_

Жыл бұрын

BA DA BA DUM

12's run with Clara was the first time I really started to think of the doctor-companion relationship as toxic. And now it colors the way I see every other doctor-companion relationship in the show. Traveling in the tardis is such a magical experience, that most humans would do anything for the opportunity. Companions neglect their personal lives and willingly run into danger just to travel in the tardis with the doc. I can't watch Doctor Who anymore without thinking about this. Not that I'm complaining. It honestly makes things more interesting for me tbh

@junipetta1595

Жыл бұрын

I feel like those dynamics are there for all of the RTD companions too, just fully explored in 12 and Clara

@Odrikah

Жыл бұрын

I agree, it really brings a lot of depth to it. (Especially after Power of the Doctor showing the support group at the end of previous companions having to adapt to normal life again). Like, even though the Doctor is by far the best Time Lord out there and has only good intentions, their very existence and need for companionship sort of inherently means that people are going to go along for the ride and then get hurt. Inevitably. But they bring people along still, thinking "maybe this time", because they just can't help themselves with the temptation of companionship in the same way the humans can't help themselves with the temptation of adventure. Maybe the Time Lords were right, to cloister amongst themselves for so long and just enact their will over time from afar. Doing anything else exudes a huge power imbalance that some could argue is borderline unethical by default. It reminds me of old Grimm fairytales where even the benevolent mythical creatures had a sort of danger about them, whether they could help it or not. There are just some powers that are too great for a normal human to tamper with for too long. And yet... the companions DO keep the Doctor grounded (mostly) to what the common person in the universe lives through and is up against. They remind the Doctor that they aren't a god, but just a really, really long-lived, clever person, at the end of the day, who has the technology available to even do all of this thanks to the inhumane abuses of the members of their race that came before them. With all the good that reminding does, are their sacrifices worth it? Does the inadvertent damage done to these people feed the Doctor, in a way, staving off the end of the universe like throwing a virgin into a volcano? That would be an interesting thing to explore in an episode, maybe, to have the Doctor be viewed by some civilization as a protector god they must feed people to in order to be protected from larger threats, because from their POV, people go in the blue box, never come back out, and the bad things go away, and that's how they interpret it. And it wouldn't be that far off, in a sense.

@redneckwithajeep5001

Жыл бұрын

Let's face it a man offers you the chance to travel through space and time, anyone with just that information would be a fool to turn it down. You throw in the chance to explore both ends of the universe start to finish and it would be almost impossible to walk away. If someone were to make such an offer to me I for sure wouldn't be able to turn it down risks be damned.

@firebreathingmoonbeam3961

Жыл бұрын

That doesn't make it toxic. Danger is a part of adventure. If they weren't okay with that then they wouldn't go. The doctor didn't force them. In regards to their personal lives what is the doctor supposed to do? What would make it better? Just go on adventure in the weekend so they can have a job? Why have a job if your the companion of the doctor? Are astronauts in toxic relationships with nasa just because they might die or leave earth for long periods of time? Idk this argument just doesn't seem like it was thought through. Plus, what ppl keep missing is that they choose to go with him. They can leave whenever they want.

@bronzeowl9

Жыл бұрын

@@firebreathingmoonbeam3961 I'm merely pointing out how destructive the doctor's ways can be to the humans they bring along with them. You don't have to force someone to do something against their will in order to have a negative impact on them. I don't know much about astronauts, but I believe they're given a ton of training and there are a lot of safety guidelines involved. Compare this to the doctor whisking off whatever humans they like and throwing them in dangerous or extremely stressful situations with no preparation. The companions truly do feel the consequences of the Doctor's irresponsibility. The doctor is the cause of Rose, Amy, Rory, Clara, and Bill being permanently stranded from their homes. And of the companions who weren't forced away from their lives and from the Doctor, we saw with 13 that there's a whole support group of ex-companions. People who found the Doctor and the tardis wonderful, but were having a hard time living normal lives after traveling with (and after some being abandoned by) the Doc. I guess my point is just that there's a way for the Doc to be more responsible here. If they just limited their travels with companions to safer adventures, free from danger of tardis-possession or weeping angels or execution or cyber-conversion. And if they carefully went through safety guidelines and training before going off anywhere. Or if they limited themselves to taking companions that are either Timelords or comparable species; those who can actually understand what they're agreeing to when they hop in the tardis. Now all of that would make for a boring-ass TV show, so I'm glad Doctor Who is this way. Not hating the TV show for showing the Doc's relationships this way; just saying that it seems toxic as hell.

Although I know that comparing different companions isn't a great idea, I think that Clara is what Rose might have been. Rose got a taste of what its like to be (with) the doctor and was chasing that high, becoming more and more reckless, to the point that she was ready to drop any connections with her family and old life to stay with him forever. Ten, in turn, decided to make the choice to leave her behind, no matter what his feelings were. Twelve and Clara showed us what would happen if that kind of companion never gets left behind.

@ladyfoxwf1075

Жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right, Rose and Clara were something more than the other companions, the Doctor became addicted and obsessed with Clara and loved her so deeply that he couldn't let her go, given time Rose would have had the same position.

“The day you lose someone isn't the worst, at least you've got something to do, it's all the days they stay dead''. oh my *GOD* Moffat!!

@fishfinger6669

Ай бұрын

Fr

Great video essay! 12 and Clara were such an amazing duo, it saddens me how many in the fandom despise their episodes just because they find Clara to be too controlling or whatever. Not every episode was great but I appreciate how complex and deep their relationship was.

@drdolittle1085

2 жыл бұрын

Complex, deep and essential for them both.

@tomnorton4277

2 жыл бұрын

Most people don't like complex and nuanced relationships. They pretend that they do but what they actually want is meaningless lip service to complexity instead of the real deal. If anything takes them out of their comfort zone, they lash out. I'm not completely innocent of this myself because I hate Catra and Adora's relationship in Season 5 of She Ra. However, the difference is that Season 5 resorted to meaningless lip service after doing a pretty damn good job with their relationship for the first 4 seasons. Catra was a sociopathic maniac who was validated for her psychotic behaviour because she cried and lied to Adora and herself by saying "I love you". The fact is, she never loved Adora because if she did, she wouldn't have spent 4 seasons being terrible to her. Season 5 completely botched Catra's redemption arc. Compare that to Clara and the Doctor. They never needed the lip service because anybody could see that they loved each other deeply. Whether it was familial love, romantic love or the love between friends is irrelevant because anybody would be lucky to find that kind of connection in their lifetime and that's more important than trying to fit it into one box. Clara only betrayed the Doctor when she was pushed to her limit and she IMMEDIATELY regretted it. If Catra was in that position, she would have instantly tried to deflect the blame. The story actually took the time to show Clara rising from her lowest point in Dark Water so that she EARNED her bittersweet ending in Hell Bent instead of just giving her a quick fix and an outright happy ending like Catra got. As for the Doctor, he certainly wasn't the Adora of the relationship because he abandoned Clara TWICE in Season 8 (to be completely fair, the first time in Deep Breath was a bluff but the second time in Kill the Moon was inexcusable) and had the audacity to gaslight her about things that HE was guilty of (for example, it's rich hearing "you can't see me" from a guy who spent over a thousand years ignoring the fact that Clara's echoes kept saving him from the Great Intelligence) but unlike Catra, that was a result of his lack of emotional intelligence, not malicious intent. Despite all that, the Doctor was still willing to go to hell and back for Clara. My point is that neither Clara and the Doctor nor Catra and Adora's relationship was perfect but Doctor Who never tried to provide a quick fix for the problems. It acknowledged that Clara and the Doctor were both very flawed people and no matter how much they loved each other, their relationship couldn't last forever. In seasons 8 and 9, Doctor Who was largely a character drama in a sci-fi setting which was probably why so many people didn't like it at first. They would have preferred more Time War (and I can understand that because damn it, we should have had more John Hurt!), alternate universes, reality bombs, confrontations with Satan and Time Lord's deluding themselves into thinking they're gods, so when they got a nuanced and compelling character study instead, they lashed out. Meanwhile, She Ra built up a very compelling story for the first 4 seasons but lazily threw together a redemption arc in the 5th which did the absolute bare minimum to turn Catra into a good guy and pretended everything was hunky dory at the end because "love conquers all" (even if it's an unhealthy obsession between an abuser and her victim). Catra and Adora's relationship would fall apart within months, maybe a couple of years if they're lucky because unlike Clara and the Doctor, they're not capable of getting past the honeymoon stage.

@kevinxxx8093

Жыл бұрын

I was appalled how many people hated Clara and Jenna Coleman.

@foxesofautumn

Жыл бұрын

She was too controlling, always acting like she knew better and usually she did because Moffat likes to write that type of young female character because that’s how he sees young women. Uppity.

@sakuranovaryan9261

Жыл бұрын

I didn't like Clara either. But I'm willing to learn. Jenna Coleman is a great actress but I end up not liking mo's of her characters...she did Joana Constantine in the Sandman I didn't like to either. Think it's the character writing. Also don't like how steven moffat writes women. Each companion just knew what to do. Like where's the wonder, confusion,attempt to learn...

THANK you for speaking to Capaldi's lighter side! People always act like he's the rudest or coldest doctor, but once you get past the first few episodes that couldn't be further from the truth. I love this whole analysis. Seriously, really well done.

@KhuestionableDecisions

Жыл бұрын

Twelve was, at his core, the same kind doctor as the others. But he just had the hardest time adapting to social norms is all 😅

What I loved most about Clara is when she and twelve joined together. The concept of 'love' is a tricky one, which people like to simplify and put into boxes i.e. romantic, parental, friendship, sexual, repressed and on and on. But as she and Capaldi grew together so did the love between them. This love is not defined by a simple word and is definitely not something wrong or in any way dodgy or deviant. If I had to choose a word then the best I can come up with is 'pure'. Many in this world want to question this as wrong as it is not discovered much in the real world but it does exist. Really it boils down to the highest and ultimate care for another. Becca put it beautifully 'transcends romance and friendship' or even the word 'connection' that the writer uses. Is this unhealthy, an addiction, an obsession is debatable. I suppose outcomes give that answer. A parent will do anything for their child, why not a friend be the same for another friend? For this to be such a huge theme in Doctor Who and to be incorporated so convincingly is a credit to Moffat. This is philosophical Dr. Who at it's best ever. This is one of the most intense relationships in the shows history, For me with greater depth than Ten and Rose which at times was annoyingly cloying especially with the hubris episodes. Funnily enough everyone tends to idolise 'Ten' but if you what genuine emotional punch then Capaldi's last season with Clara was the ultimate. Sadly so many viewers missed this in the episode and extremely few experience in their time on this earth.

@drdolittle1085

2 жыл бұрын

I fully agree - 'pure', that's it! (And a little bit raw, too. But if it wouldn't have been that way, it wouldn't fulfill a universe...)

@wednes3day

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for pointing out the perspective on unhealthy/obsessive

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

triplejazz musicsall -- Capaldi and Moffat set out to grow the Doctor up, and that's what they did, moving him beyond the sort of faux adolescent crush-thing that 11 projected in his efforts to "fit in" with humans, into a vast space far beyond anything like that. I'd call it "asexual", but that's not accurate -- I saw a strong sexual tension beneath the surface of the friendship between Clara and 12, all the more powerful for being "put in its place" (as a kind of energetic source of that intensity for both of them) first by Capaldi's Doctor and then increasingly by Clara herself, as she turned elsewhere for love human style (Danny). It's an extraordinary exploration of a sustained relationship of a kind that we rarely see attempted in our screen entertainment. And it turned off the younger (physically and/or mentally) fans, I think, because they simply haven't had enough experience to recognize it as real, if rare, or enjoy seeing it working itself out through two seasons of a show that was originally intended for children, remember [and that went back to that level of appeal, IMO, with Whittaker and Chibnal's first two seasons]. It was a huge risk, growing the Doctor up toward the true, enormous dimensions of his age (whatever you compute it to be). It left many fans behind, but was, I think, a great gift to older fans of a more mature mindset. I saw that in much of the fan commentary at the time, and reveled in it, frankly. So rare -- and so beautifully done, warts and all.

@triplejazzmusicisall1883

Жыл бұрын

@@ichabod1370 Sincerely I have rarely read such an articiulate, intelligent and engaging summary of a period of any television show. It is a genuine pleasure to read something with depth, that is well formed and based on both knowledge and common sense. Thank you for your perspective.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

@@triplejazzmusicisall1883 You're very welcome, and thanks for the compliment. I enjoyed DW for many years -- my husband and I used to watch it together -- but came to truly love and admire it during the Capaldi-Coleman seasons. And now I love sharing my thoughts about it in discussions like this. Cheers!

I feel like people got a bad taste with Clara because of her starting out with 11 and the forceful introduction. However I absolutely love 12 and Clara. It feels like they're truly friends.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

J hart: yes, friends; devoted friends. Who wouldn't want friendship like that in their life, dangers and disagreements and all? We're lucky if we find anything like it in a human lifetime! it's the kind of experience that you come out of as a different, more mature and solid person than you were when you went into it.

@aperocknroll88

Жыл бұрын

I had no issues with her... until she threatened the Doctor's access to the Tardis over her dead boyfriend.

@therealpbristow

Жыл бұрын

I loved the "impossible girl" mystery overall, but parts of it were clunkily handled, especially some of MattDoc's lines about her which got a bit sledge-hammery. (Too much "tell" and not enough "show"!) I get the impression that Season 7 was a bit rushed in development (maybe because of the late decision by the BBC schedulers to have it split either side of Christmas?), and didn't work out as well as it could have, e.g. if the appearances of the "previous Claras" had been spaced out over a longer period. Although that would have made it really difficult to keep the surprise of Jenna's first appearance, or conversely that this seemingly one-off character was going to somehow become a companion. Eh, what do I know. =:o}

@aperocknroll88

Жыл бұрын

The point at which Clara tried to throw the Tardis keys into a volcano... is the point at which the Doctor should have said enough and dropped her off for the last time after dealing with the cybermen.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

@@aperocknroll88 Why? He regarded her with a TL's kind of love. He locked Missy up to try to teach her to be a good TL instead of a bad one; he didn't just toss Missy out of the Tardis. TL love isn't about sex; it's about an unquestioned devotion deep enough to last for millennia. In that respect, he treated her like an equal, and in the end, she became that. That's what makes it an interesting relationship, much more so than any sort of lopsided "boyfriend" thing could have been.

The Love between Clara and the Doctor always made more sense to me than what he supposedly had for River - that never made sense. I think because we saw 12 and Clara grow and develop and it always felt I was just supposed to accept the River relationship - which seemed instant.

Brilliant! Thank you. Let me add an idea that I think is absolutely central to the Clara/Doctor relationship, taking us back to Missy's crucial line about how close TL relationships are *not* like humans' -- *not* about something as trivial as reproduction (you quote it in your essay), because they last so much longer in time than human relationships do. It seems to me that despite the match of personalities between this Doctor and Clara, the way they click and play off each other, the story is about the sheer impossibility of their connection because he loves her as a TL loves a TL -- with that timeless and completely non-utilitarian connection ("Do you think I care for you so little -- ") that's not about making a family, starting a dynasty, uniting two great houses, or any of that human "stuff" that humans tend to live and die for. He doesn't love her for her sexual equipment (much as the shippers would prefer that), but for her entire being and its uniqueness, just as Missy said it was for him and Missy/Master. -- rumpty-tumpty is simply not in the equation for him. Capaldi set himself this goal when he took the role, commenting several times in interviews that he had absolutely no intention of playing this as a sexual, older man/young woman thing, and I think this freed him up to portray something much more interesting: an alien being drawn into a TL type of relationship with a short-lived human person that was bound to fail because a mere human is so vulnerable (in ways that a TL is not) that he must always be afraid she'll leave the relationship by dying. And that knocks him out of balance (compare and contrast: he doesn't have to worry about Missy getting killed -- he thinks -- because, well, the Master is a TL and always comes back -- and he doesn't think of Missy sexually either, while she makes a joke of it). Despite her best efforts, a human being is what Clara is -- and he isn't. He's desperate to protect her -- she doesn't want to be protected, she wants to be like him -- but she can't, except in the very circumscribed situation of always heading back to the Raven, even if it ends up as the long way round, and with another long-lived human being, "Me". Not with a TL, who would crash the universe to protect her. The whole thing is an extraordinary concept, beautifully played by both leads, and clearly utterly baffling to viewers still firmly stuck in the human idea of lifelong love. That line of Missy's in "The Witch's Familiar" is there for a reason. It's what makes this a tragic love story, and its resolution a heroic one, on both the leads' part. I hope this makes sense!

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment! This is so beautifully put and I agree with all your points :)

@ichabod1370

3 жыл бұрын

@@herrengelsful Thanks -- been thinking about it for a while. I write SF professionally, and one of my central interests has always been in the ways that definitely unequal persons manage to connect despite their differences -- and the limitations on that extraordinary achievement. The CapDoc/Clara relationship was a wonderful study in just this, and I loved the hell out of it! In a way, it's the perfect ending to the Doctor's saga -- well, until we get a decently effective Doctor, companion(s), and showrunner again, which I hope I'll live long enough to see.

@tomnorton4277

Жыл бұрын

My only problem with the relationship is Peter Capaldi's performance. In Season 8, I was much more likely to see the Doctor when Clara was PRETENDING to be him than when Capaldi was playing the real deal. He behaved like a sociopathic misanthrope and, ironically, actually came across as too human despite his intention to play a more alien Doctor. If you throw Capaldi in with any human arsehole who suffers from an antisocial personality disorder, I guarantee that you wouldn't be able to tell which one is an alien. During The Caretaker, Peter Capaldi had to spell out that he's an alien by blatantly trying to draw attention to himself when he said "I'm coming across as a boring human like you". Any other Doctor who was intentionally playing up the alien side wouldn't need to spell it out. And no, saying it's in the script is no excuse because if Capaldi or the production team were confident that he came across as suitably alien, they wouldn't have needed to write such a clunky line in the first place. Matt Smith could waltz into any room and his demeanour alone would be enough to convey that he's an alien. Same for Tom Baker, Patrick Troughton, Sylvester McCoy and the criminally underrated Colin Baker, who swaggered around in a ridiculous costume that he reportedly hated as though it was the most normal thing in the world. I'm fine with a more human Doctor - David Tennant's my second favourite incarnation and he literally WAS a human at one point - but that's not what Capaldi was going for. There's a difference between being a sociopathic human and a disconnected alien and Capaldi was doing the former, whether he realised it or not. Peter Capaldi was being overshadowed by Clara Oswald and it's not because of the writing. Jenna Coleman simply has more talent than Capaldi does. On paper, Clara and the Doctor were equals but Capaldi was being upstaged by a woman 28 years his junior because he didn't have the charisma or screen presence to handle one of the most complex incarnations of the Doctor until he was well into his second season. When Clara said she was the Doctors "carer", I feel like the show, intentionally or not, was basically admitting that Season 8 Peter Capaldi would have crashed and burned without her. Actually, considering Steven Moffat and Peter Capaldi reportedly begged Jenna Coleman to stay for Season 9, I think both of them had realised that too. I really wish John Hurt had been handling the 13th Doctor instead of the 9th. Peter Capaldi could still have had his time to shine in Day of the Doctor - I might not be insisting that he be counted as a numbered incarnation but he'd have achieved his lifelong dream - but Hurt was a better actor and therefore better suited to handling what was, on paper, the best character arc the Doctor has had since at least Christopher Ecclestone, if not the best since William Hartnell. John Hurt would have bounced off Clara with a fond smile and a twinkle in his eye, so that the mean spirited insults Capaldi kept throwing at her would have come across as an inside joke. The age related ones might have been written as a reference to the fact that, thanks to her echoes, Clara might actually be older than the Doctor when all of those millions of lives are combined together. However, coming from Peter Capaldi, they don't sound like an inside joke, they just sound like him channelling Peter Griffin when he constantly insulted Lois before admitting "I'M old and fat and unattractive and worthless. I guess I thought that if I could bring you down, you wouldn't start to notice that you're too good for me and run off looking for another fella."

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 Obviously we disagree, then; that's what makes horse racing.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 Obviously, we disagree, Tom. I got really tired of Tenant, and am not looking forward to seeing him back again for a bit in 2023; I never got tired of Capaldi, and certainly did not see Jenna Coleman as superior to him as an actor. They made a great team; I miss them.

Finally someone who understands Clara as a companion to the doctor. I mean, the writing was on the wall the moment she even thought about calling herself the doctor even if it was to save her skin. Very well made video, intelligent and articulate. Wish more people see this.

When I was younger I didn't like that people shipped them but now that I've grown up I've realized they have more raw chemistry than any doctor/companion pair since Tom and Lalla Ward and they were actively in a relationship.

Excellent analysis! Series 8 and 9 are often underrated because they are so character driven and I think you summed the complexity of them beautiful (they are my favourite seasons because they are so rewarding on rewatch) I also appreciate you spelling out that there's plenty of ways you could interpret Twelve and Clara's relationship as romantic, but you don't see it as such. I agree that it is somewhat indefinable and transcends romance and friendship - they are absolutely obsessed with each other. I think series 9 suggests that Time Lords see themselves as somewhat 'beyond romance' (The Missy comments you highlighted, plus Twelve's comments about humans being 'bananas' and 'obsessed' with relationships) which makes Clara and Twelve's relationship even more important - it's not as simple as 'romance'. I disagree on Hell Bent - I don't see Gallifrey as 'wasted' at all, but rather a perfect example of how the Doctor has placed Gallifrey on a pedestal for so long. Once we actually meet the Time Lords again we remember what pretentious dicks they are, who allowed the Doctor to suffer through billions of years of torture and are so oblivious to who he is and his values. We realise the humans are actually the most important things to him - he was never going to stay and be president - so he throws everything back at the Time Lords and recklessly runs off with his human companion instead. I do agree on the Hybrid prophecy though - that was hand wavy.

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for such a lovely comment!! I might have been a bit too harsh about wasted Gallifrey, but it does seem unfair to show it for only a little bit and have the Doctor run away almost immediately after all the drama about losing it and then finding it in the previous seasons.

@crystal0913

2 жыл бұрын

@@herrengelsful I agree with Becca - I don't see the plot about Gallifrey being wasted. The 12th Doctor's era is all about questioning the things we think we know about - be it the Doctor's moral self or the Time Lords' place in the universe. Now that the Doctor is free from PTSD (the previous guilt of having slaughtered everyone on Gallifrey to stop the Time War), we can stop romanticizing Time Lords and finally see them as they are - and be reminded of why the Doctor was seen as an outlier by his fellow Time Lords in the first place. (In the classic series, Time Lords were never portrayed as particularly righteous) If you saved your planet only to have your own people betray you by risking your beloved companion's life and imprisoning you in your confession dial for billions of years... won't you want to burn the whole thing down and never look back?

@tomnorton4277

2 жыл бұрын

@@crystal0913 The most badass part of Hell Bent was when the Doctor conquered Gallifrey with minimal dialogue and did it from a barn! The oldest civilisation was brought to its knees by a guy who wouldn't budge from his childhood home until the President descended from on high to meet with him and when Rassilon arrived, the Doctor simply told him to "Get off my planet!" And Rassilon basically pissed his pants and ran away. The Doctor had the Time Lords practically shitting themselves with fear which shows how threatening he can be when he's pissed off. And he didn't even want to rule Gallifrey. As soon as he saved Clara, he abandoned his new position and fled because the whole power play was just a means to an end. I wish they hadn't made Rassilon into a pathetic joke though. Timothy Dalton oozed power, authority and megalomania in The End of Time while his replacement was just a weak old man who threw a tantrum when he didn't get his way. It would have been more compelling if they brought Dalton back. Granted, I understand that the Master probably hurt him badly enough to force a regeneration but even if he was scared off the planet by the Doctor, I'm sure Dalton would have made it look more dignified.

@therealpbristow

Жыл бұрын

@@tomnorton4277 There's no guarantee Dalton would have been available, though. Maybe they tried to get him and he was too busy, or not interested?

@tomnorton4277

Жыл бұрын

@@therealpbristow They did try to get him. I think he was busy. However, if they couldn't get Dalton himself, they should have at least gotten someone menacing.

Thank you for this. I love Clara and I love her and Twelve's dynamic. I honestly think her progression (after season 7) is really unique to the show. The fact she's not in love with the Doctor, she's not enamoured by him, but instead wants to BE him is so interesting and it's so much more watchable than another companion who just thinks the Doctor is either a love interest or some magical God. This is probably the best explanation of why I like her I've found on here!

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Thank YOU for the kind words! Not to belittle other companions but I think their dynamic is very unique and I miss them haha

Clara's the Doctor's most multifaceted companion. The show became more of a character drama during Peter Capaldi's era with a lot of psychological undertones that haven't really been tackled in Doctor Who before. The 50th anniversary was probably the catalyst for this change in style since John Hurt exposed aspects of the Doctor that the show never tackled before ("Did you ever count? How many children there were on Gallifrey that day?") but it wasn't until Season 8 that the series was willing to dive into the psychology of both the Doctor and Clara and have them make decisions that risked turning the audience against them. People say that Clara took over in Capaldi's era but in actuality, their relationship was very well balanced, with Clara being neither above nor below the Doctor in terms of her intelligence or abilities, aside from lacking his lifespan and the safety net of regeneration. Speaking of regeneration, Steven Moffat said "It's time for the old beast to snarl at you for a bit" when Capaldi was cast and the man could snarl like no other Doctor before him, to the point where I admittedly outright disliked him for a good chunk of his era. In hindsight though, that was a really ballsy move and I believe it paid off in the long run. Clara also revealed an uglier side to her personality that Moffat would have been too afraid to tackle in the past - just look at how he brushed Amy Pond outright MURDERING Madam Kovarian under the rug - but the success of Day of the Doctor may have given him the confidence boost he needed to make Doctor Who more mature. A big problem with modern audiences is that they SAY they want complex and realistic characters but lash out when they actually get them. To quote Peter Capaldi's Doctor "Just like a tantruming child, you don't know what you want!" It scares writers away from writing truly nuanced and 3 dimensional characters who are capable of the highest highs but also the lowest lows. It was the exact same situation when people found out who Darth Vader truly is in the Star Wars Prequels. They complained about Hayden Christiansen's acting but the man could express more with his eyes than many actors can with their entire faces. He was never the problem. People just didn't like the fact that Darth Vader wasn't who they wanted him to be.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

Tom Norton -- "people" as in "fans", I think, with DW. Long time fans who were used to a certain comic-book sort range of character traits in the Doctor and his companions were offended by seeing strong elements of maturity and reality in these characters as played by Coleman and Capaldi, and as written by Moffat. Too bad. If they come back to 12's seasons later in their lives, I think they'll see them quite differently, especially in regard to the two major roles --- Doctor, and companion.

@tomnorton4277

Жыл бұрын

@@ichabod1370 I recognise the mature elements. Do you really think I would miss the fact that Season 8 literally tackles the afterlife? Or that Season 9 emphasised how travelling with the Doctor could become toxic? Sometimes older people forget that younger people haven't built up a lifetime of bias, so they can actually see more clearly. I just wish they'd gotten John Hurt to handle the 13th Doctor instead of Peter Capaldi. Capaldi had maturity but he was about as charming as a cactus. Hurt had maturity and charm in equal spades. If they had let Capaldi handle Day of the Doctor and given Seasons 8 and 9 to Hurt, my posts would be praising them to the heavens. This isn't a story problem. It's a casting problem. Hell, arguably it's not even that because Capaldi could absolutely pull off the Doctor who ended the Time War and possibly do it even better than Hurt did. This is a case of two Doctors being in the wrong places in the timeline.

This was so well said! When I first saw the title and thumbnail for this video I thought it would be half an hour of bashing Clara as a companion and her relationship with the Doctor, but this was completely the opposite! Clara and the Doctor are completely and totally in love with each other (the type of love in question is up to interpretation) and the way you dissect the two of them is just wonderful! Thank you so much for this awesome video!

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Oh thank you so much for such lovely words! No I’m a huge fan of Clara as you can tell, I’d never bash them 😘

Finally, a person that thinks that Clara was the best companion ever.! And I mean this without undermining the other companions and their relationship with the doctor, but Clara was his equal, more than any of the other companions. And the tension between them was solid and thick. I do think that he was very romantically involved with Clara and Clara with him, but their relation was complicated. And YES! Danny Pink was an idiot. I did not like him at all. Not even with his ultimate sacrifice for Clara at the end Death in Heaven. To summarize. I like very much your case analysis of Clara’s tenure in Doctor Who.

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I agree, Clara gets an unfair amount of criticism in the fandom so I wanted to balance it out.

@nicolesong6199

3 жыл бұрын

Ah, I don't think DP was much of an idiot. But I've read fan interpretations of him and they're so much better than what we got in the show. I think, in front of the Doctor, it brings out the bad side of him.

@einezcrespo2107

3 жыл бұрын

Actually I felt bad for Danny being written that way but the point that he was seen as a rival for Clara's attention. Truth is The Doctor is also at fault with that ''I'm not your boyfriend," comment. What was Clara to do? Also little was written about Danny's PTSD and The Doctor's attitude and jealousy was uncalled for at times. Clara trying to balance out her double life was actually destructive as it saw her lie so much it made her the bad cop in many of her detractors eyes. That's where Steven Moffat failed. Instead of trying to make all parties sympathetic it only divided the audience to this pair and made Danny look like an ass. Danny Pink was really badly written.

@nicolesong6199

3 жыл бұрын

@@einezcrespo2107 Yes I think so. On the other hand there wasn't much room to develop him other than writing stories set in Clara's school, like The Caretaker and In the Forest of the Night where the focus has to be on Danny/Doctor, but there are big limitations to that because he's set in a very specific location (the context of Clara's school) and time period. And I can't imagine 12 would ever be clumsy enough to accidentally bring Danny along to another place, another time . . . though that would be fun! Moffat got around this by having Danny die in the most ordinary way, and then introducing the afterlife. So at least Samuel Anderson got some proper bonkers, out-of-this-world Dr Who character time in those finale episodes. Also there's this fanfiction where it fixes this -- It has Danny meeting the old companions of the Doctor, like Sarah Jane and Jo Grant, and we get to see another side of him that is content away from Clara. I think reading that made him so much more sympathetic as a character. It's called Book of Liars, by Vali, on ao3.

@themarlboromandalorian

3 жыл бұрын

Hi. Soldier perspective here. Danny and the doctor were fine. They wrote them right. It's the gap between classes. Ranks. Enlisted Vs commissioned. Both are right given the limits of their knowledge and experiences. It's... It's better explained by Rick to Beth... Being smarter makes the universe yours and she never likes it. Being ignorant can afford different lives... Like the family life with significant others and children and careers with pensions, retirement, bills, etc. He knows she's human. Clever human, but still. She ought do human stuff... Because her life is short. So He wants her to be with Danny... For A while at least...

I think they both loved each other, Clara even said there was one other man but it wouldn’t of worked out. I think if they could of had a romantic relationship if it worked out for them. So sad Clara left, she was my fave and 12 was my fave doctor too🥺

@jamalsygrove2625

3 жыл бұрын

Sarah Jane said the same thing would u say her relationship with the doctor was romantic?

@Atothetheist

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamalsygrove2625 The Revival reframed it in that way.

@PhyzikTalks

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamalsygrove2625 Yeah it's pretty clear that Sarah Jane has very strong romantic feelings towards the Doctor in NuWho and Sarah Jane Adventures.

@0SC2

Жыл бұрын

Wouldn't have, could have.

Heaven Sent is my favorite Dr Who episode EVER. I grew to love the bond between Clara and 12, and the heartbreak of the ending was profound.

i never knew how much i liked clara until she left the show and did her final goodbye. when her music starts playing. god damn. got me a bit teary. then it left me depressed for a week. never knew i could be depressed from tv show character. crazy

An underrated moment I feel is that before 12 shoots The General he asks what regeneration they’re on, which definitely causes me to question whether he would have shot them if they had no regenerations left. It’s just a nice moment to remind us that The Doctor is still there, he’s just not driving right now.

I liked Clara so much I never realized until recently how many people really disliked her. Seems weird as her character had the most interesting back story and she is a great actor.

@foxesofautumn

Жыл бұрын

I think it’s the arrogance and the fact she talks down to the Doctor. I don’t enjoy it personally.

@franz3810

Жыл бұрын

I hate her smug little face

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

@@foxesofautumn IMO, assertiveness and non-romantic intensity in a woman aren't not "arrogance", although many people still see it that way. Their loss.

Thank you so much for this video! 12th and Clara is one of my favorite pairings in Modern Who. The unsaid and unrequited feelings. How things were left unsaid was what made this pair's bond so powerful and tragic at the same time. I wasn't sure they would work until Mummy in the Orient Express in that corridor scene. It felt so electric! I was like OMG! I feel a zing through me. Peter and Jenna's chemistry and real life friendship is amazing. I hope these two actors work together again.

Murray Gold deserves credit for Heaven Sent too, “The Shepherd’s Boy” is magnificent, 4.5 billion years in 4.5 minutes.

You've no idea how many times I squealed "YES! Exactly!" as I watched this video, punching the air in delight. As for the Hybrid bit, I thought Moffat meant that Me was right about the Hybrid being Clara+Doctor duo, and the prophecy having been about the Doctor unraveling Time itself for her? Like this terrible fate they were all afraid of is exactly what would have happened if the Doctor hadn't given up on his plan. Clara decided to go back to the moment of her death from which she had been extracted (after some adventuring with Me), and apparently followed through and died, so the catastrophe didn't happen. My only problem with this plot is, it kinda retcons "Father's day" from Season 1 where Ninth saved Rose's Dad and the shitstorm did happen, but in a form of Langoliers (and the whole debacle wasn't, it seems, scary enough to warrant Time Lord Freakout Session). But well, it's DW, consistent canon isn't really a thing here.

The episodes with Clara and 12 were my absolute favorite episodes.

Thank you! For finally pointing out Danny's faults. I sometimes felt like Im going mad since nobody else seems to voice that Danny was controlling. He made up his mind about the Doctor from the first time he met him and never gave him a chance to prove him wrong, to the point where Clara felt she had to lie about spending time with him. He always bitched and whined about everything about Clara that he didnt like, and honestly her best friend. And I felt that he mostly whined about something is most all scenes he was in. He was right and whatever Clara was doing that didnt fit was wrong. I mean maybe he was right some of the time, but the way he put it out there was always so condecending and grating. I was waiting for him to warm up and actually try to get to know the doctor, and atleast give him a chance, since he was such a big part of Claras life. But he never did, never gave that chance, and then he died off screen. What was the point?.. I feel like he never gave Clara a chance, a chance to be who she was. He liked certain aspects of her, and the rest he tried to file away. In the end DDanny Pink did not get enough character-development. I needed and wanted to see something more of Danny, that the fact that he hated generals, amd had a painful past. Ps. I liked Danny better in "last christmas"

@tomnorton4277

7 ай бұрын

Frankly, I'm on Danny's side. First of all, he was the only boyfriend who was neither impressed nor intimidated by the Doctor's presence. Unlike Mickey and Rory, he never struck me as the jealous type, just a guy who wanted his girlfriend to be straight with him, which is a perfectly reasonable request. All strong relationships are built on honesty and that's all Danny ever asked of Clara. As much as I love Clara, her reluctance to be open and honest was causing the issues in their relationship, something she even admitted in in the finale. Second, Peter Capaldi played the Doctor as a sociopath. Why would any caring boyfriend want his girlfriend to spend time with the guy? You can take jealousy out of the equation entirely because Capaldi played the Doctor as borderline villainous. I have the context of watching his sociopathy during events that Danny didn't witness - for example, the complete lack of remorse in the line "he was dead already, I was saving us" which would have William Hartnell, Colin Baker and even Sylvester McCoy, arguably the darkest Classic Doctor, cringing with disgust - so frankly, I think Danny's a far better judge of character than people give him credit for. Hell, he's a better judge of character than the WRITERS gave him credit for because they didn't intend for Peter Capaldi to come across as being an outright sociopath. Sure, Danny pegged the Doctor as soon as he saw him but what people refuse to acknowledge is that he was RIGHT. More right than the writers intended because of Peter Capaldi's shortcomings as an actor. An example of this is when he intentionally prolonged Clara's pain in Dark Water in a sick test to "See how far you would go", then had the fucking audacity to go on a self-righteous rant about loyalty after he betrayed Clara's trust TWICE (Deep Breath and Kill The Moon) without apologising either time. Capaldi knew what was going to happen - he was ready for it - and he still had to rub it in and assert his deluded sense of moral superiority. If he'd delivered "You let me down" quietly, that scene would have a completely different impact and if he'd said "Cut out the whining" to HIMSELF, who was the one who actually did all the whining in that scene, it would have stopped the Doctor from looking like a sociopathic shitbag who cared more about feeling morally superior than his best friend's emotional state.

I have to agree. Clara was not only the best companion, she was definitely one of the most beautiful too. Something about her just shines. But then again I love doe eyed, confident, dimpled face women. And she fit the lot. What is not to love about Clara?

@tashatsu_vachel4477

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, and Jenna Coleman is an astounding actress too. Her and Peter were outstanding together. They should do a feature length episode with her and Ashildr on an adventure, then try all manner of bribery to get them all back together to save the franchise. Love her or loathe her as some fans do, this was the high-point, what has followed is destroying it all too fast.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

@@tashatsu_vachel4477 It's not destroyed; it's still there, when you re-watch, more powerful and interesting every time -- despite the simple-minded crap that followed Capaldi's three seasons as the Doctor.

Excellent essay! Really nails what is great about 12 and Clara and makes excellent points about the pros and cons of their relationship! Certainly gave me a lot more to think about regarding my favorite Doctor and companion!

This was such a fascinating and well thought out essay. It took me a little while to warm up to Clara (mainly because as you mentioned she felt more like a plot point than an actual character), but her development into such a different kind of companion and her chemistry with 12 were great fun to watch. You've raised some really interesting points and it's really given me something to think about when I re-watch these seasons. Great work :)

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Aw thank you for the kind words! Glad I got my point across :)

I've said over and over again on many other channels how much I loved the relationship between Clara and the Doctor. Theirs was a platonic love in my opinion. They were equals and truly cared for each other. Their hubris was their downfall, both thinking they could do things that in the end was not possible; Clara being like the Doctor, and he trying to save her from Death. In the end they had to part but I do seriously hope they can meet one last time again and she can gently put her hand on his/her cheek before she has to face the Raven, if not on the show at least in Big Finish. They were the perfect Doctor/ Companion pair, too perfect actually.

Thank you for giving Clara her 'props'. She belongs in the upper part of favorite companion lists.🙂

Completely agree with all of this! Clara's two series with Twelve, especially series 9, are so special. Also, I'm a bigger fan of Hell Bent than most people seem to be, perhaps in large part because I actually really like the fact that what the hybrid is is left ambiguous. For me, it works as a really brilliant rug pull: "You thought this was a standard series arc about some Big Bad, but it's actually about characters and relationships!" That's also why my personal feeling is that either the hybrid is the Doctor and Clara's relationship, or it doesn't matter.

this reminded me of just how much i love series 9!! (might go and do a sneaky re watch)

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Rewatching this video 7 months later and I kinda want to too...

“She cares so I don’t have to.” LMAO

Great video. You really get to the heart of what's special about the Doctor and Clara's relationship. Although, I'm a bit perplexed that you don't like Hell Bent that much considering you already recognize the major strengths of the episode and its culmination of the themes of their relationship. You specifically say that Hell Bent 1) fails to answer the question of the Hybrid because Moffat doesn't have a satisfying answer and 2) wastes the return of Gallifrey. On the first point, I'm especially confused why you say this because in the description you correctly recognize that the Hybrid is the Doctor and Clara's relationship. Up until Hell Bent, the Hybrid is implied to be some huge epic monster that the Doctor will have to face but then that is subverted and the reality is that it's the destructive relationship of the Doctor and Clara. It's essentially a deconstruction of the typical Doctor Who series arc, as the mystery box turns out to have been the developing relationship between the two leads the whole time. And this leads into the second point about Gallifrey. The Doctor rejects the Time Lords in order to save his best friend, just as Moffat rejects the (boring) space western narrative and opts to tell the story about the Doctor saving his best friend. Gallifrey is only "wasted" so far as to show just how insignificant the Time Lords are, and have always been, to the Doctor, especially compared to his best friend. Hope you can reconsider Hell Bent because I think it's every bit as good as Heaven Sent and you seem 99% there to realizing it. But your video essay really is great. You perfectly lay out all the strengths of Clara as a character and as a Doctor Who companion.

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment! As for Hell Bent, I don't think Moffat ever explicitly says that the Hybrid was Clara and the Doctor's relationship, it's never really properly addressed in my opinion, which makes the arc in previous episodes seem a bit cheap - that's my problem with Hell Bent. If you do consider it to be Clara and the Doctor, then it's all just a big joke and irony on the "prophecy" and "the big bad" trope, which is, as much as I love post-modern irony, is also quite unsatisfying. Apart from that, the use of Gallifrey is still baffling. For 8 seasons prior we've been led to believe that Gallifrey is this amazing place and the Doctor is super sad to have lost it. Hell, the Anniversary special was built on that! But in Hell Bent the Doctor goes there for like an hour, kills a man, breaks some rules and escapes - definitely not what's been built all those previous episodes. So for these reasons, I do not think Hell Bent was such a brilliant episode (although the emotional climax and character resolution was PERFECT)

@ichabod1370

3 жыл бұрын

@@herrengelsful I think Moffat deliberately backgrounds Gallifrey to stress the obsessive and single-focused nature of the Doctor and Clara locked into this impossible relationship which they *must* find a way to resolve. She is so important to him that Gallifrey is just a backdrop, to him, and he has no interest in it except as a cog in the plan to rescue Clara somehow from the Raven. For viewers primarily invested in the SF context of these stories (the Doctor's origins and his fractious relationship with his fascinating home planet and its people), that's got to be disappointing. [I've always thought of Gallifrey as the cheesy backdrops and ridiculous costumes of BG Gallifrey -- Buck Rogers stuff, cheerful rubbish, and completely unworkable in any practical sense -- a futuristic city in a planet that's apparently just a desert of red sand, utter nonsense -- my background is in Economic History, so it was just comic book B.S. from the get-go -- and it would have taken a hell of a lot more that one final ep to make it come to functional life, so I never expected that anyway.] For those viewers riveted by the axis of Doctor/Clara, it works just fine, because fuck Gallifrey, it can wait -- what the heck are these two perfectly matched but mutually destructive people going to DO with this weirdly deep and relentless relationship they've built between them?! THAT was the focus, and THAT worked brilliantly. So for me, "Hell Bent" did exactly what it needed to do, and did it excellently.

I never felt anything for Clara and Eleven. I didn't feel Clara was even a real character. Then her and Twelve happened. I wasn't ready for how strongly I felt for them and their dynamic and definitely wasn't ready for how much their end broke me. I came to love her character so much and even Twelve, through their growth together.

This video essay was great and I agree with many of your points. I always loved the relationship of the doctor and clara I personally saw it as romantic but it isn't the traditional romance we would normally see on other shows. I agree mostly about danny just because I think his actor wasn't good at all to show any chemistry I never believed clara was in love with him comparing it to her chemistry with capaldi and even matt Smith who was half a season. Although I do enjoy hell bent and it's one of my favorite finales I can see the points you made about the hybrid having no real resolution. Overall this was an amazing video that kept me engaged hope to see more of this type for other doctor who opinions.

I always had mixed feelings about Clara and 12, for the exact reasons you pointed out! Their relationship felt so much heavier than other Doctor-companion relationships, but this sometimes-uncomfortable weight made it feel more real. Bill Potts felt like a really refreshing change of pace, but this video reminded me of why the arc with Clara was so compelling.

Hell Bent didn't waste Gallifrey but Chibnall did... And obviously Gallifrey will come back but seriously why destroy it in the first place? Clara is my favorite companion because she doesn't act like a side kick, she is the main character of her story.

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed about Clara! I'm actually making a video on Chibnall soon so stay tuned :)

@tomnorton4277

2 жыл бұрын

Doctor Who ended with Capaldi's final episode. Until they erase or retcon Chibnall and Whittaker's era, I consider the show to be on hiatus. A female Doctor COULD have worked - Clara, Missy and even River (granted, she was a Mary Sue but a likeable one) are proof of that - but they chose the wrong people for the job.

@foxesofautumn

Жыл бұрын

Meh, I’m there for the Doctor first.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

@@foxesofautumn I'm there for the Doctor always, but there for those he loves, as well [thinkking of Clara, and Missy, River, and Bill, in Capaldi's seasons. The Doctor finds companions worthy of his company, most of the time.

This is such a wonderful dissection of my all-time favourite Doctor/Companion duo! Thank you so much for making this video, not only was it fun, it has nudged me to sort my own feelings towards certain people in my life too!

You did a great job, fantastic video! I miss these two sm😭😭

Great, great video! I had my doubts about Clara as the impossible girl, but once her mystery is solved and she becomes a real character, that duo is one of my favorites. And thank you for saying Heaven Sent is a masterpiece - it really is, my absolute favorite of the entire show, and Capaldi's acting takes your breath away.

I've just found this video and I want to say thank you. I've loved Clara so dearly from the very beginning and it had always made me sad that she was hated on so much by a big part of the fandom. I cried watching this as you were laying out how amazing Clara is, it felt like someone else was seeing why I loved her so

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

SKAM SAID BE KIND ALWAYS -- I think all that hatred was because with 11, Clara was in fact a Mary Sue; but with 12 she acquired much more human complexity, which made it not so easy to see yourself in her and imagine your female-fan-self as 12's companion, and many female fans were vocally furious on sites like this *because* Clara was no longer a mere Mary Sue, but a full-blown, contradictory, highly imperfect HUMAN character. Others hated her because her strength as a character turned the show into a "Two-Hander", or plays built on two main characters' interactions, more than stories with one main character only; and they only wanted to be invested, as engaged viewers, in the Doctor, not also in someone else. I think that's an issue of viewer maturity, myself; maybe because I'm old.

I absolutely love the character development and chemistry between these two. (Bill does a great job of helping re-ground him too).

Twelve is my favorite doctor, and the very close second is Ten. And the biggest reason is the doctor companion relationship. Heaven sent is such an extreme episode but it feels like an expected reaction coz of the way this relationship was established till that point. Great Essay, it captures their dynamic perfectly.

This was a great video! Seasons 8 and 9 has always been my favourite era of the show, but i couldnt explain why. This is exactly why

I'm a huge DW fan. I've seen every series'. I've listened to just about every Big Finish DW audio drama. And I have to say .... Capaldi is one of my absolute favorite Doctors (8th is my favorite in the audio dramas). He's phenomenal. I also think the 8th season is one of the best (if not THE best, in my opinion) in the entirety of the series. The two-part episodes, the writing, the character development .... it's incredible!

Beautiful video essay, I miss them a lot 😭

I'm always overjoyed to see other small channels out here talking about the artistic integrity behind Doctor Who and its characters, makes a nice change from the nonsensical fancams and "lol, random" edits out there. Keep up the amazing work chief.

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Oh thank you so much! This is so kind of you :) hopefully more videos a-coming soon!

This was a brilliant essay on the Doctor/Clara dynamic. Good on ya! This was my favorite time in DW. I also thought that 12 and Bill could have had a similar but different humanistic interaction. Loved it!

this was a wonderful video, and it both helped me understand why you love Clara so much as well as what my personal problem with her arc is. the lengths the doctor is willing to go for her, her almost inhuman brilliance, feels like it devalues all his other companions. but I might just feel that way because I related so heavily to the RTD era companions and do not see myself in Clara at all

@foxesofautumn

Жыл бұрын

She gives me major Mary-Sue vibes. She turns up with almost no life experience, can’t even use email though she’s a recent uni graduate so already making no sense, and yet talks over the Doctor like she’s some great authority on everything and the narrative more often than not backs this up! Ofc the Doctor is so impressed by how brilliant she is (even though she’s actually a very sub-par teacher for a super-genius.)

Clara's seasons with Twelve and its focus on love beyond romance is so beautiful to me.

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

Dash fatbastard -- yes; it's the real-deal, all-accepting, honest and true (and imperfect, as are all things) intimacy we all long for whether we acknowledge it or not. It's what we look for in our own romantic partners -- and never quite find. No wonder it knocks us for six when we see it enacted in a story. No wonder we keep coming back, to see it again. And it tells us what we need to know: that it's impossible to maintain even if you can attain it -- for a short while.

@dashfatbastard

Жыл бұрын

@@ichabod1370 Not if you have to maintain it. I rather think it needs constant upgrades to keep working.

This was a brilliant video hopefully there's more in the future

What a great video! I'm in love, please do more video essays

Clara and 12 are my favourite duo of New Who

Idk why this is now showing up on my feed but I’m glad it did. That was a fantastic break down of the relationship.

YOU GET THEM!!! this video was incredibly well worded and thought out. you touched on so many feelings i have about these two. season nine is by far my favorite because of all of these factors (but i’m not thinking about the hybrid. we ignore the hybrid.)

There's always a sense of melancholy whenever a companion leaves or a doctor regenerates but honestly Clara and 12 are the only ones that I still miss to this day and I think it's because of how strong their dynamic was. Their whole run together in retrospect almost feels like one long tragedy. Unlike other companions it really felt like 12 and Clara _needed_ each other around rather than wanted each other around.

I loved Clara. The dynamic between her and 12 was poetic.

I literally wrote a fic about how their love was toxic because it would destroy not only them but everything else. It's writing from Clara's pov where she sees this but it is also awful and painful that she can't just be with him

Really beautiful and revelatory. You put into words a lot vague feelings I have about that relationship. Clara always seemed a bit of a Mary Sue to me until the streak of recklessness appeared, and I had to reassess her, see her depth. Your are absolutely right; she was always trying to become the Doctor, with all the good and bad that entails.

They are my favorite pair and this essay is so on point, they told each other they loved the other all the time but without actually saying it.

The Doctor: A man with two hearts. The Impossible girl: A woman without a pulse In the end, Clara did become her own version of the Doctor, complete with her own TARDIS and an immortal companion.

What I love about this show (apart from the pre-Chinball era) is how dynamic the Doctor can be as he is multiple different people. And how this further effects the relationship with his companions. Well covered!

This video is exceptional, your analysis was just brilliant

This is truly excellently and passionately made, terrffic look into their dynamic and respect for the characters. Really well edited and a great respite from the 13th doctors lack of relationship with her companions :)

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Oh that's so kind, thank you! Glad you enjoyed!

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

Jacob Simm -- or, for that matter, with anyone.

Great video! Very insightful thoughts :)

I really loved your analysis! Twelve and Clara are two of my favourite characters and I always found their story really beatufull and realisticly dark. I feel that their relationship lives where fairytales end and reality begins. I wanted to say that I understand why Hell Bent is considered problematic, but I also understand Moffat trying to emphasise on the relatiosnhip between Clara and Doctor by sacrificing story-telling.I understand how messy It seems but the atmosphaire of the episode and the fact that It stars so loudly and it slowly turns into somehting very introverted and personal I find it makes it really moving and suitable to colcude their story.

It just hit me -- go read about another Clara relationship with an outsized, bigger than Life Giant -- Clara Schumann and Johannes Brahms. Theirs too was a relationship that went beyond "romance." Thanks for this brilliant analysis of my 2 favorite DW people, and their "timeless" relationship.

Clara and twelve were on the show when I was growing up and to this day they're still my all time favourite doctor and companion.

Amazing video, thanks so much for making this.

That was absolutely lovely. I liked Clara as a companion, but didn't truly appreciate her as a character until Capaldi came along for what I think is the most remarkable and heartfelt Doctor/companion story arc in the show's history. You did a fantastic job of putting into words so many of my own thoughts on their run together.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone have almost the exact same opinion as I did about the Doctor and Clara. All the points you hit really resonated with me throughout the essay and made me realize once again why 12 and Clara were my favorite seasons of Doctor Who.

This was beautiful. Thank you.

Splendid analysis. Well done.

FANTASTIC AND BRILLIANT 💔💔

i never enjoyed 11 and clara... it was too pushy and just didn't fit well. however, 12 and clara is a PERFECT match.

Wow .. very nicely done!!!! I must admit, you did help me see some things I didn't see before because I was not a Clara fan. I felt like they made her way too important. But I have really changed my mind recently. She's in allot of my favorite episodes. I LOVE Capaldi l

Everyone keeps going on about the doctor and rose and how they were in love. Please, spare me. Rose was akin to a soldier's post-war therapy dog... Pissing on every carpet. Clara died and he spent billions of years in prison to drag her back from death's embrace. He died over and over and knew it too. He loved Clara more than he ever loved anyone. Love is being brave even if it breaks your heart. The hardest part is never beginning again... It's letting go... Let go or be dragged.

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

That's a bit harsh about Rose, I can't agree with you there. I think their love was very different to 12 and Clara and they worked in their own ways too.

I completed watching the video 10 minutes ago, and I'm still crying. Their relationship is beautiful in a way that I cannot describe in words. It would just sound dull. They're just so... Complicated. And amazing. And beautiful. Clara is the only companion who ever truly became The Doctor's equal.

This was an amazing video. I wish there was small line added in regards to how far he went to save Clara when she was talking to Yaz in the Legend of the Sea Devils about not being able to fix herself to one person because last time he broke all his own rules and fractured the universe.

Well, the algorithm brought me this and I'm glad that it did. Thank you very much for vindicating my affection for Clara as a companion.

summed that up perfectly... well done!

I love LOVE the dynamic 12 and Clara had. I cried so much at their ending… They loved each other so deeply, not romantically, but in a way that’s difficult to define and that’s more than friendship.

This is a fantastic analysis, thank you! I got a bad first impression because I didn’t really like her with Eleven (he himself was not my favorite) but she ended up as one of my favorite companions. I loved the dynamic between Clara and Twelve so so much. And you articulated all the reasons why so well.

Great analysis. I think they faltered in deciding exactly what they wanted to do with Clara initially but by the time Capaldi came around I felt they had an excellent relationship

Thankyou so much for making me understand Clara as I did like her during 11th doctor run but hated her during the 12th doctors run but now I like her more as you've explained her in better detail so thankyou

@herrengelsful

3 жыл бұрын

Aw I’m glad I could get my point across :) Thanks for your comment!

Please do more video essays this was amazing !

This has just pinged into my recommendations, congrats youtube you knew exactly what I needed, and when I needed it. This is a great video, I love it, I totally agree with you. I've always hated how much people disliked Clara, and personally I could never understand why. This is the video I will be keeping a link to, so whenever it comes up, I can send them here. It hopefully comes without saying that I have subbed, and I hope to see more Doctor Who content in the future :)

The way that the doctor and Clara talked with eachother and how they acted just showed how close they were. While Clara kept the doctor down to earth you never got the impression that she thought she was better than him. She just knew that he needed help sometimes just like everybody else in the universe. The negative effect they had on eachother was that they made eachother more like the other. Clara started to take more responsibility and bigger risks. When unit came looking for the doctor Clara took charge until he could arrive. When there was an unstoppable curse she tried to trick the person who made it. Clara looked up to the doctor and wanted to be like him which is what eventually led to her death. On the other hand the doctor started caring more. The dangerous thing about a powerful being caring about someone is that they become a threat if that person gets hurt. The doctor always did his best to save everyone but he never crossed any lines to bring someone back. He always just accepted their death even if he didn't like it. But with Clara he couldn't let go. He had allowed himself to get to close to her. He never said it but he loved her. It's not until he is standing at the end of time that he realized he had gone to far. He realized that even though they loved eachother they became to dangerous together. Clara became a danger to herself because she tried to do what he did without all his knowledge and the doctor became a threat to everyone because he would do anything to protect her. That's why one of them had to forget because if they both remembered they never would have stayed apart. Its a sad story about two people who are perfect for eachother but they can never be together.

Loved this video, thank you

i feel like i would’ve been fully on board with the first part of the analysis of clara in series 7 like 3 years ago - yes her characterisation was strange, and mostly from 11’s POV, but she IS characterised with a lot of detail, she’s just masking it because veils and masks are a big part of her character. i think for me, series 7 works so much better as a setup for series 8 and onward though, because it establishes this relationship between 11 and Clara that gets throughly developed when 11 regenerates, and we get to this beginning that’s immediately emotionally interesting for 12 and Clara. the fact that Jenna Coleman and Peter Capaldi happened to be such a simpatico pair, and that series 8 turned out to be so solid in characterisation (especially the 2nd half of series 8, plus all of Steven Moffat’s episodes) is lucky as all heck. I feel blessed just thinking about it.

@tomnorton4277

2 жыл бұрын

Remember when Capaldi said "Never try and control a control freak"? We already saw that when the Daleks tried and failed to control Oswin. Control freak Clara was always there and her Victorian echo outright said "For your information, I'm not sweet on the inside and I'm certainly not little". It's just that she was in a kind of honeymoon phase with Matt Smith's Doctor so she presented her best self. Clara's by far the most psychologically fascinating companion in Doctor Who. 99% of the time, being a control freak is a bad thing, but in Clara's case it gave her an almost impenetrable psychological defence mechanism which made her immune to mind control. This was introduced with Oswin and shown again when Bonnie tried to control Clara and Capaldi said "The mind of Clara Oswald. She'll never find her way out." I love that Moffat took such huge risks with Clara, both with her story and with her characterisation - how often are we going to be able to use "control freak" in a positive context? - because they made her the most multifaceted companion in the entire show. Clara's control is as much about controlling herself as it is about controlling others because she's self-aware enough to know that she's reckless, arrogant and, as she says to Danny, "up myself" so she needs to keep those urges in check. An example of this in Season 7 was when she rejected an offer to have all the control she could ever need by marrying the Emperor of the universe. However, after Danny died, Clara had no reason to restrain her impulsive tendencies because there was nobody left to ground her. This caused her to go off the rails in Season 9 until it literally killed her. As for Danny Pink, people keep overlooking how important he really was in Clara's life. Even Season 9 almost pretended that he never existed with Missy and Clara just mentioning him very briefly during their reunion and not even using his name. Danny may have had a feminine sounding surname but the man himself was one of the most masculine characters in New Who and frankly, a breath of fresh air after seeing Mickey and Rory bumbling around and being insecure and jealous about Rose and Amy's relationships with the Doctor. Danny only wanted was an honest relationship with Clara and if he was "controlling, toxic and needy" he wouldn't have encouraged her to calm down and try to repair her relationship with the Doctor at the end of Kill the Moon. He had a perfect opportunity to manipulate Clara into staying away from the Doctor and he didn't take it because he wanted her to be happy first and foremost. Danny deserved more respect from both the writers and the audience.

“Do you really think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?”

@ichabod1370

Жыл бұрын

Clarence Loie -- fuck, that always hurts, because it clearly hurts the hell out of Clara at the time, as she sees how paltry her response to his devotion and acceptance has been; how much power over him he has ceded to her without a murmur; and how small her own feelings are compared to those of a nearly immortal alien being whom she tends to treat as if he were a mere human too; while he accepts her as an equal despite her failings, discerning the potentiality in her to rise to great heights (if she can stay alive long enough to get there, and that "if" scares him, but he'll take the risk of love anyway).

@tomnorton4277

Жыл бұрын

@@ichabod1370 Sure. Never mind that Peter Capaldi had been treating Clara like she's expendable trash for most of Season 8. Repeatedly gaslighting her, insulting her and projecting his own flaws, insecurities and mistakes onto her. After all, if she dies he can just go looking for one of her echoes, so why bother to act like he gives a shit until AFTER he's pushed her to the breaking point? Hell, he was outright PREPARED for her to betray him which means one of two things. Either he's insanely paranoid about the woman who spent a million lifetimes saving his ungrateful ass whilst almost never being acknowledged (the "You can't see me" bullshit is the epitome of hypocrisy when you take that into account) or he was deliberately pushing Clara with the full knowledge that she would eventually snap in some kind of sick test. Danny Pink's death just accelerated the process. Capaldi even outright bragged about being able to regenerate whilst encouraging people to not only shoot Clara but a 15 year old girl at the same time. And that was BEFORE he abandoned Clara in a situation where she could potentially kill herself, her student and everybody on Earth with a decision that essentially amounted to a coin toss. No wonder Clara believed that the Doctor didn't give a shit about her. For gods sake, they should have let John Hurt show Capaldi how it's done. He would have handled it with some bloody self-awareness about the fact that the Doctor was acting in a way that would make the Valeyard proud to consider him part of his regeneration cycle. And they should have just had the TARDIS, which is a living being, open her doors on her own to let Clara and the Doctor back in after Clara threw the keys into a volcano. That way, they could have made the Doctor seem less like a villain who deliberately pushed Clara to her limits whilst having a backup plan in place and more like a man who genuinely didn't realise how badly he'd been treating her.

Brilliant video! You've put into words exactly what I love about these characters and their relationships. As you mention, series 8 and 9 are a bit lighter on their story arcs - at least in terms to the conflict/threat - but Clara and 12's relationship what drives the drama and story in those seasons, and what makes them my absolute favorites of the entire show. On the topic of the Hybrid: isn't "the hybrid" the combination of The Doctor and Clara themselves? For exactly the reasons you outline here - the two becoming more and more like one another, each reflecting both a human nature and a time lord nature - and in so doing becoming more destructive to eachother and even a threat to the timeline itself. I can't remember if this was explicitly stated or alluded to in the show (really need to rewatch series 9 again soon), but it's always been the interpretation I've favored.

F’ing brilliant video. Great job!