*Timestamps:* 0:00 - Introduction 0:15 - Background of the guest 0:46 - Topic of the Presentation 1:16 - Introduction to the Topic 2:13 - Overview of the Presentation 3:16 - The Orthodox conception of the Incarnation 7:30 - The Difficulties posed by the Incarnation 10:25 - Assessment of different incarnation models 11:53 - The Compositional Model 13:36 - Problems with the Compositional Model 22:31 - The Kenotic Christological Model (KCM) 30:39 - Problems with the KCM 41:17 - The Two-Consciousnesses Model (TCM) 44:04 - Problems with the TCM 56:04 - Addressing the False Islamic Analogies 1:08:19 - Conclusion 1:14:03 - Historical Jesus' belief about himself 1:15:01 - Closing Remarks 1:17:08 - More Articles about the Topic 1:17:52 - Wrapping Up SubhanAllah ❤️🤍💖 Fantastic Presentation & Discussion 👍🏻👌🏻 _May Allah ﷻ bless you both and reward you for your efforts._ 🤲🏻

@mansoorahmad8409

2 жыл бұрын

جزاک اللہ خیراً اخی الکریم ❤️

@BloggingTheology

2 жыл бұрын

Many thanks!

@Overfloater777

2 жыл бұрын

JAK brother. You're always racing for the good deeds, Masha'Allah 😉 👌🏼 May Allah reward you for your efforts.

@asadullahsaaid3794

2 жыл бұрын

بارك اللٰه فيكم 😊☺️

@yolda1849

2 жыл бұрын

@@BloggingTheology Your channel is very good, I wish it had Turkish subtitles. Can you work together with Turkish-Islamic channels for this? You can get help from the Turkish channel "Towards Eternity". *I think it will be good for Turkey to know Islam or religan from the Western vision.*

Bassam Zawadi needs to have a youtube page. His work is phenomenal and it would be of great benefit to have a library of his work on the youtube space.

@SecularKoranism

2 жыл бұрын

He is a coward too afraid of calling out Christocrap. He has a boring substack though.

There are angry Christian comments showing up within a couple minutes of the video being uploaded. They don't even know what they are angry about, they just rejecting it, just like they rejected Islam before knowing what it is.

@Monothiest247

2 жыл бұрын

A true good hearted Christian would listen, be enlightened 💡 and InshAllah guided to Islam

@ottovonbismarck3473

2 жыл бұрын

Lmao, thats because both are fairytales. Islam is just another story, just as violent and destructive and Christianity.

@ottovonbismarck3473

2 жыл бұрын

​@j4m13456 lmao, bold of you to assume I have a religion. If you need a made up book to tell you right from wrong, you're seriously fucked. I don't really care about which made up saint or which magical rabbi or sheik did this or that, I don't need them to tell me right from wrong.

@isntitfunny3885

2 жыл бұрын

@j4m13456 u made me laugh by providing such an amazing tafseer of Quran.. Where were u living till yet broh. The world is choas. I wonder y no Christian or jew or any scholar from any religion not notice it till yet.. U relieved us😅😅😅😅

@tahahajmohamady6932

2 жыл бұрын

@j4m13456 we well all see on the day of judgement who is right and who is wrong. And at that day you we'll see Allah ask Jesus (ص) that did you ever say to your people that you were god , and he we'll say no . And truly your eyes and ears are not blind or deaf , but you're hart is .

MashaAllah , May Allah swt bless and reward this brother and his family. Ameen He articulates nicely and presents and addressed points that I’ve heard every Christian use as a means of trying to prove Christian beliefs.. Alhamdulillah

this lecture is very insightful. appreciate brother Paul for your efforts to always inviting brilliant minds

Jazakumullahu khair, thanks to both of you! This is a very beneficial video, alhamdulillah

Listening from Malaysia 🇲🇾. 7.39am here.

This brother destroys every so-called “power point” I have ever heard the trinitarians of speakers corner make.. Bravo bro.. thank you Paul for having this guest on especially when you did , it came at a perfect time..!

@SecularKoranism

2 жыл бұрын

He didn’t say Christians are idolaters worshiping an executed blasphemer, did he?

@SecularKoranism

2 жыл бұрын

Why do you think now is the perfect time for calling out Christocrap?

Alikom assalam Wa rahmatuAllah Wa barakatuh Masha'allah Masha'allah Very nice video Thank you Jazakum Allah khier

Cant wait for the next one brother paul!

Jazakom Allah khair brothers.

Thank you for the video.

Wow... this scholar put much time and effort into this presentation. My knowledge of the "incarnation" is insufficient because I never was interested in such a study. Although I think the "incarnation" of Jesus is important, at the present time my motivation is to understand Islam better. Peace to you

@maryanruunhaaji1806

Жыл бұрын

hi John, Christians beleive one God that exists in 3forms God the father,God the son,God the holy spirit so the incarnation teaches the second person of the Trinity, God the son took human flesh in the bodily form of jesus thus when Mary gave birth jesus,God entered in to the creation as Humanbeing. That's all but the thing is such belief contradicts the bible which describes God as Eternal and unchanging e.g Your throne is established from of old. U are from the everlasting(psalm93:2). Every good and perfect Gift is from above.coming down from the father of the heavenly lights,who doesnot change like shifting shadows.(James1:17). These 2verses describe God as Eternal and unchanging so the incarnation totally contradicts the bible also jesus is God contradicts the bible bcoz Numbers23:19,Hosea11:9 say God isnot man or son of man but it says jesus is man and son of man ,john8:40,Acts2:22,Timothy2:5, john17:3 etc. These and many other studies I did are the reasons that made me disbelieve christianity when I was studying.

Excellent!.... Loved the way he dealt with different models and philosophical objections on the subject within Apologetics!.... very deep and very erudite indeed!

"ومن أظلم ممن افترى على الله كذبا أولئك يعرضون على ربهم ويقول الأشهاد هؤلاء الذين كذبوا على ربهم ألا لعنة الله على الظالمين" هود ١٨ - Surah 11, verse 18

This is great. This speaker did what the best critics like Al Ghazali and ibn Taymiyyah (ra) did. He was able to explain and define the other perspective before critiquing it.

Brother Bassam if you are reading this then please make more audio/video content. I need to listen to something while I'm at work 😂😬

اللهم صل وسلم على نبينا محمد

You upload time is just as impeccable as Christ.

السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ As-Salaamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakaatuhu

@BloggingTheology

2 жыл бұрын

Wa alaykumu s-salam

assalamualaikum, salam uncle paul from indonseian muslim 🇲🇨

Really brilliant analysis. One of the main reasons I became a Muslim and rejected Christianity--the doctrine of the Incarnation is incoherent.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

Can you explain a bit why you think the "doctrine of the incarnation is incoherent"? Don't worry because I'm just trying to understand how people view such doctrines. Do you mean the definition that Jesus was God in heaven but He became a human being? I guess it depends on how we define "incarnation". Right? Does not Islam state that Jesus was born of a virgin through a miracle? Or maybe I misunderstand that part of Islam? Peace

@truthseeker4470

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 I have no problems believing in miracles--that's not my objection. As a Muslim, I believe in the virginal conception of Jesus (ʿalayhi s-salām). What I mean by "the Incarnation" is the Chalcedonian formula--that Jesus (ʿalayhi s-salām) was simultaneously fully God and fully man as a single person, not two--that he was simultaneously infinite in power and limited in power, that he was simultaneously all-knowing and ignorant about some things. I find this incoherent--that is, it doesn't cohere together. The doctrine affirms mutually contradictory things, much like someone claiming that a circle is square or a valley is a mountain.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

@@truthseeker4470 Thanks. Now I understand you better. Actually I tend to agree with you regarding the incoherence. I appreciate your comments because I also struggle with the "Chalcedonian formula" as you explain it. To be honest, I've never studied the "incarnation" concept. I think the incarnation is a deep subject, especially in Christianity, that I probably will never understand. I guess I should study it better. To me, the most important thing is to read Jesus' life in the Gospels and to try to make coherence of what He says/does. To be honest, even though I may not understand the incarnation, I do believe that God sent Jesus in human form in order to show us God's love for us. Maybe I'm not very logically-minded? Or better yet, maybe we simply can't understand the "mystery" of the incarnation. Is that a "cop-out" ? I accept some aspects regarding Jesus as a "mystery". So.... actually I have no problem with your reasoning. I just think God's knowledge is way above human knowledge because our mind is too limited to understand God perfectly. Do I make any sense? Peace of God to you

@truthseeker4470

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 you make sense, and I appreciate the response. I also believe that Allah sent Jesus (ʿalayhi s-salām), as he did all the prophets. I don't see why any form of incarnational theology is necessary for him to do thar, however. Think, ponder, and pray for Guidance, John. I didn't have to give up Jesus (ʿalayhi s-salām) to be a Muslim...I just came to an understanding about him which I believe was truer to his message than the one that Christians have about him. May Allah guide you, John.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

@@truthseeker4470 Thanks for the respectful reply. The only problem is see, is that if Jesus was not God or the "Son of God", then how can Christians ever accept the other doctrine that Jesus bore our sins? I agree with you that there's no problem if we simply believe Jesus came from God in human form. But if we accept the other doctrine, that Jesus died for our sins or somehow bore our sins, then He had to be either God or the Son of God. If Jesus was just a mere man or even a prophet, it makes no sense that he could have bore our sins, right? Muslims don't believe that Jesus "bore our sins" right? Peace and thanks for quick reply....

Bassam Zawadi is an excellent example of “ knowledge is not enough to convey your thoughts you need to have extreme clarity of thought” - thank you Paul. One question for Paul- you objected to Christian apologetics using quantum physics to explain concept of trinity. Nonetheless in a recent programme with Keith ward (I think) you alluded to quantum physics as a basis for questioning the materialistic worldview of the atheist? You used it to question the empiricism of the atheists as quantum physics don’t fit with their classical model . Why use it both ways ?

@SurgeonSuhailAnwar

2 жыл бұрын

@Snakejüce yes you have just repeated what I said but that doesn’t answer my query

@annansubuga8307

2 жыл бұрын

Whats do apologists say? I actually noted this myself but i don't have much understanding of qp. I did think tho about electrons and stuff.

Calcedon 451....."Orthodox Christianity" had not fragmented into Catholic,Orthodox and Protestant just yet

There are many Christians today around the world who being from the Oriental Orthodox Churches, are non-Chalcedonian. Although they are also from the Nicene Christian tradition, they are seperate from the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Protestant Churches and instead adhere to Miaphysite Christology rejecting the Council of Chalcedon. After European colonialism, many Oriental Orthodox Christians converted to Roman Catholicism or Protestantism but even today, Oriental Orthodox Christians are local/indigenous to and largely still live in regions within the Muslim/Islamic world or its sphere of influence (i.e. Egypt, Ethiopia, Eritrea, India, Syria, Turkey and Armenia); where they make up the majority of Christians in these regions and have done so for centuries. For this reason among others, I think the subject of this video being 'Christianity and the Incarnation' would therefore be better delivered as a series rather than a stand alone piece. Here in this video it has been addressed in view of Chalcedonian Orthodoxy but I believe with Oriental Orthodox Christians, a critique from the view of Ephesian Orthodoxy (in line with the Council of Ephesus) would serve better given their non-Chalcedonian position. I would say a key aspect of Ephesian Orthodoxy to focus on in this regard would be the 'Twelve Anathemas' proposed by St Cyril of Alexandria and accepted by the Council of Ephesus. In particular, anathema number 4 states: "If anyone shall divide between two persons or subsistences those expressions which are contained in the Evangelical (Gospels) and Apostolical writings, or which have been said concerning Christ by the Saints, or by himself, and shall apply some to him as to a man separate from the Word of God, and shall apply others to the only Word of God the Father, on the ground that they are fit to be applied to God: let him be anathema." This anathema can be taken alongside among others Biblical verses like Mark 13:32, where Jesus is reported to have said, “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." This can then be used to form a strong critique against the Incarnation and Miaphysite Christology and the Oriental Orthodox view. Moreover, this same critique also applies to Chalcedonian Christians since Ephesian Orthodoxy is equally binding on them. All in all, I just think that a thorough critique on Christianity and the Incarnation should from as many angles as possible (scripture, tradition, history, theology and logic) address as many branches of the Nicene Christian tradition as possible including the Oriental Orthodox Church and the East Syriac Church.

Then, we are all back here . Again. For the second rime

Did anyone noticed every time christians explaining their believe will suddenly emphasized word by word especially the fancy words when they talks. Bazzam also talks that way, maybe because thats how he studied about christianity. When talks about islam he back to normal.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

I don't really prefer "fancy words", depending on what you mean by such. Are you referring to words that are "doctrines"? I think Jesus Himself did not like to use fancy words, but simple words that helped people to understand God. Peace

when humans start dabbling in the metaphysics of The Divine, errors in metaphysical theories are bound to happen

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

Hello Hamid. You made an excellent statement. That is one reason we need to be careful in our assumptions that our "theories" are correct and that all other beliefs are incorrect. Peace

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

@@philipcoriolis6614 Excellent question. I need to get a better grasp of "metaphysical theories" first. Do you know of any that don't have "errors" so I can steer my studies in the right direction? Peace

When humanity sees Jesus pbuh again, they will learn what he feels about all this.

@malikiskandar5510

2 жыл бұрын

He will be soo sad to see his follower became astray

Even without all these arguments, any Christian who reads new testament and does not blindly follow teaching of the church should see the absurdity of claims that jesus is god. Few verses of quran in the conclusion should be enough wake you up from doctrine of trinity. It makes all these confusion and mystery around Christianity very clear.

@kalijasin

2 жыл бұрын

Most christians don't even read the bible.

@ConsideringPhlebas

2 жыл бұрын

The New Testament repeatedly asserts the divinity of Christ. Informed Muslims, Atheists, Jews and Christians all recognize this. Everyone except dawahbros, apparently.

@blade4048

2 жыл бұрын

@@ConsideringPhlebas you're right. Whole of new testament might attribute divinity to jesus by other people. So i am changing my claim that words attribute to jesus in the surviving gospels do not have any clear unequivocal statements that claimed divinity to jesus

@ConsideringPhlebas

2 жыл бұрын

@@blade4048 If I said 'I am the Truth' (cf. Q. 22:6, 23:116) or 'I am the First and the Last' (Q. 57:3), would that be a claim of divinity? Because Jesus in the NT makes both claims: Revelation 22:14, John 14:6.

@blade4048

2 жыл бұрын

@@ConsideringPhlebas nope. Not clear and unequivocal

The mystery card is like the multiverse of the atheists. Also, the analogy of the Qur'an and Jesus would be as if Islam taught that God became book, with a divine nature and a book nature.

Interesting. I didn’t know the Christian arguments were so solid. The example of the apple is perfect. The only week sides of this incarnation doctrin is that is not logic or rational. But logic and rationality are human features, god is not bound by them. Thanks for this.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with you that "logic and rationality are human features, god is not bound by them." That is how I understand God. Peace to you

@faisalwho

2 жыл бұрын

@spanellaful You're absurd! Logic and rationality are a divine gift which your conclusion is clearly devoid of. By your reasoning, God can make a square circle, God can become Satan, God can cease to exist, and God can create a rock so heavy even He can't lift it. God has blessed humans with Logic and rationality so that we can apply it to better know and understand him. "This statement is false". Illogic and irrationality are a construct of the language, not nature. Making illogical and irrational statements and then hand waving saying "god is not bound by them" , is the work of Satan trying to convince you into disbelieving.

@sunwukong32

Жыл бұрын

Seems a bit contradictory to say something is a strong argument and then admit it isn't rational.

@spanellaful

Жыл бұрын

@@sunwukong32 “Strong” and “rational” are two different concepts. An argument can be rational but weak or - like this case - strong and irrational. The point is that rationality/logic/consistency are human cathegories and entities such as “god” cannot be bound by them...

@sunwukong32

Жыл бұрын

Maybe you're thinking of another term. A strong argument, by definition, is an inductive argument that is logically probable. E.g. P1: There's an unkempt house. P2: No one has been seen coming or going. P3: No movement or changes can be detected inside. Conclusion: The house is vacant. This conclusion could be wrong, but if all premises are true then it is probable, thus the argument is strong. It's a step below a valid argument which is a deductive argument where if all premises are true then the conclusion is a logical certainty. E.g. P1: There is a house in good repair. P2: The grass is manicured. P3: The house has a fresh coat of paint. Conclusion: someone is maintaining this house. An argument cannot be both strong and illogical. As for God, while He may not be _"bound"_ by logic in theory, this does not necessitate nor is there any reason to conclude that He would outright *_contradict_* logic.

Another enjoyable exercise. Thank you. I understood the trinity's nature to be thought of as three distinct beings. One God, another the Son, and another a Holy Ghost. That is God, human Jesus, and Jesus's soul after death. As a Non-Christian, perhaps I've been mistaken in this. It seems to me that to say that God is not capable of establishing such a trinity, however described, suggests a concept of God as finite in abilities. Clearly the Trinity, however described, is illogical. But one might ask, where is there logic in the Buraq for instance? I believe the concept of a combined human/god was commonly held at the time cited, 400 A.D. Emperors were human gods, pharaohs were human gods, Greek heroes such as Achillis were human gods in the minds of most. Most concerning to me is religion as team sport. What human motivation requires criticism of others' beliefs? Is it to assuage doubt about one's own faith?

@abdalrahman81

2 жыл бұрын

there is nothing inconceivable about Buraq. But one can't claim to have a three sided square or a man who is also God.

@chuckhillier4153

2 жыл бұрын

@@abdalrahman81 Yet many do conceive their trinity. So, it is conceivable. Although I do not believe it.

@abdalrahman81

2 жыл бұрын

@@chuckhillier4153 not *logically* conceivable. just like a three sided square is not *logically* conceivable

@chuckhillier4153

2 жыл бұрын

@@abdalrahman81 Thank you for your responses.

He kind of threw me off when he said, “the Quran is uncreated” Allah is the only uncreated and he precedes everything (the whole creation). He created everything and everything came from him, so how can something that never preceded him and came from him be uncreated??

@jasonatreides2542

Жыл бұрын

The Quran is indeed created. Not only this but we need to hear an Islamic critique of the Athari doctrine of incarnation where Allah is above the throne IN the heavens.

Like

A more adroit comparison with incarnation in Islam would be the philosophical notions entailed by the soul's relation to the physical body. This analogy is even used by Church fathers in support of the incarnation.

@leoguarknight1588

2 жыл бұрын

Not even the soul, what about the mind even

A person doesn't need his mind to be a human being, but if a person loses his mind, it's hard to get his mind back

it's almost as if religious doctrine were just made up to unify or exclude communities of believers and not to rationally explain the universe

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

I like your observation. I should write it down. Peace

All this mental gymnastics just to avoid a simple truth. No, their god has shed his own blood, sacrifice himself to himself so that he can forgive human beings. How is it that they ignore the simple belief in God, the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious, simply writing-off, ignoring, forgive sins and errors?

@BenM61

2 жыл бұрын

They can thank Saul the fraud for that who claimed prophethood and came up with his own made up ‘gospel.’

@smidlee7747

2 жыл бұрын

That's because God commandments are not just laws he made up to give to man but His own nature. The Word can't be separated from God essence. How can God fulfill for an example "Thou shall not steal" when God owns everything? How can "Thou shall not steal" be revealed as God's own nature. Thus the incarnation is where the Word became flesh ,the Son of God to reveal His nature and the Son of Man to fulfill "Thou shall not steal" Once you understand that God laws is His nature then you understand why God' law MUST be fulfill in order to justify the sinner. The LAW must be satisfied as God is not a corrupt judge who ignores justice and the law.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

@@smidlee7747 These comments of yours are very interesting. I'm trying to understand what you mean by "God laws is His nature." Are you saying that Jesus fulfilled God's laws? I wonder if God gave any laws to Adam and Eve before they disobeyed God? I guess the commandment to not eat of a tree was a law, right? God bless

@smidlee7747

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 What is the purpose of God commanding Adam not to eat the fruit but to put his trust in God and not himself. Adam loved Eve and wasn't deceived by satan. He had to make the choice to either trust God and plead for Eve's life or handle it himself and start a fig-leaf clothing store. Jesus Christ is the Second Adam who always 100% of the time did the will of the Father and willingly died , offering himself to the Father for his bride , the church. When God commands man to submit it is not something that is not within God Himself. Christ reveals submission and obedience is within the nature of God.

@smidlee7747

2 жыл бұрын

@@mmss3199 You are right God can't change His nature .. like God can't lie while a prophet can lie. You believe God can't lie makes Him weak. I heard allah is the best of deceivers.

Paul u should have host brother (Muslim metaphysian) jake brackatella , he is highly qualified for Christian theology specially from philosophical stand point

Would be cool if you could make more videos on jewdaism instead of Christianity just for a change of content i suppose

Reincarnation - keep on living for ever but still falling short in Knowing everything as in science perhaps 🤔

Aslm to both Paul and basam. I love basam but was disappointed by his debates in Dubai with an idiot pastor thabiti who preached that the Bible is God's word.. What a joke and the debate had more laughs than serious talks..... Then Dr Shabbir ally took that smile off that pastors face

@kolakoli2645

2 жыл бұрын

@j4m13456 lol😂😂😂🙄

If there is a Godhead, is there a Godtail, a Godarm or a Godleg?

@UAM-

2 жыл бұрын

That is how the Stu pid fools think

@ruhmuhaccer864

2 жыл бұрын

-head is and old variation of the suffix -hood. You are embarassingly uneducated an make a case of it. Sad.

@rashidaquil5284

2 жыл бұрын

Good question on God head

@adma7298

2 жыл бұрын

Enlightened Christians doesn't accept incarnation of ancient greeks and Indians. This is racist explanation of God. We all are children of God. God will incarnate in every nation to guide them.

@SecularKoranism

2 жыл бұрын

@@adma7298 Christians who believe in the divinity of Jesus are idolaters and blasphemers.

Are you trying to prove that the square-circle does not exist??

So it is an oxymoron for a trinitarian to say that he was sinless because any blasphemous statement or act or even killing and taking other's properties is imputed to his divinity 🤔🤔😱😱🤯🤯🤯

Also man's theories on exactly how the incarnation worked has no bearing the incarnation is true. I don't have to know the theory about how food works in my body to know for a fact food is good to eat. as Ali Dawah explains who told you that you can fully understand God with your little brain. we need more Muslims honest enough to admit they can't fully comprehend God nature.

Hello Paul, your program, your rules, but if you really want to be open to the truth, while you are most welcome e to bring in a critique of the Christian doctrines, it would really enhance the program if you would also invite a Christian scholar at the same time to provide a critique of the critical examination being provided...just saying.

@karimb972

2 жыл бұрын

He did have a christian guess this winter try to explain in detail the trinity from a christian perspective. The man had a full hour. peace

@jesussays216

2 жыл бұрын

@Starry Night yes, I see, however, it's only a fair dialogue if both the parties are present.

@jesussays216

2 жыл бұрын

@@karimb972 peace. Yes, but the Christian guest was not critiquing Islam. If he had been, then it would only be fair if there would be an Islamic scholar to push back a little. See what I mean?

@Paper-Z

2 жыл бұрын

@@jesussays216 I get you but it's obvious Paul's style is not debates but discussions. He brings both Christians and Muslims so I think he is a little fair

@jesussays216

2 жыл бұрын

@@Paper-Z I understand what your saying, but once again I must reiterate, if a Muslim is critiquing a Christian doctrine , then a Christian must be allowed to join the discussion.

Sup

Jesus is claimed to be a schizophrenically godly man or a schizophrenically manly god. What a bizzare belief of schizophrenically logical believers which was definitely denied by Jesus hmself.

@ahwehbe6070

2 жыл бұрын

@j4m13456 bro a little kid that has an atom of arabic grammar will tell u thats not what the verse is saying.

@ConsideringPhlebas

2 жыл бұрын

@@ahwehbe6070 The vowel marks of the genitive or accusative cases do not exist in the original unpointed text. The rasm can be read both ways.

@akkubaba

2 жыл бұрын

@j4m13456 It is only a delusional dumb that actually believes God gave birth to himself to have himself walk earth only to pray to himself, kill himself and raise himself after 3 days [So much for a sacrifice] - to further raise himself up to himself only to sit himself at the right hand of himself. So that he can forgive your sins ! Marvellous!

God is all knowing yet He chooses to remember my sin no more. I remember my sin but God chooses not to . This guy doesn't even believe in a forgiving God according to his own reasoning.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

I believe in a "forgiving God" because Jesus Himself points to such a God !!

@smidlee7747

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 In the video he attack Jesus Christ deity for claiming he didn't know the hour without realizing the scripture reveals God will remember the believer's sin no more. You can't have it both ways. If God can forgive sin and choose to remember them no more then Jesus equal to the Father would be able to choose not to know the hour to do the will of the Father on Earth. It's obvious in scripture there are different types of "KNOW" as for example a man "knows" a woman. I would think since God is all-knowing he still have knowledge of my sin but on a higher level because of the blood of Christ choose to veil that knowledge and remember my sin no more. When God see me He now sees the righteousness of Christ. Can I fully comprehend that? Of course not but I believe God.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

@@smidlee7747 Wow.... I like your explanations! And your quick reply. I tend to agree with most of what you say. I like the way you made the observation that "Jesus equal to the Father would be able to choose not to know...." Excellent!! And to be honest, can we "attack" the divinity/deity of Jesus by using ( cherry-picking ) one verse?? I don't think so. I dislike it when people quote one or two verses that seem to negate the divinity of Jesus. I'm not trying to insult Muslims because I know little about Islam and I try to respect Muslims. But I prefer to look at many scriptures ( the whole picture ) and try to understand how the "puzzle" goes. Right? And I agree with you that "there are different types of 'KNOW' ! Excellent again ! I wish I knew Greek language so I could better study the Gospels. I've tried to study Greek but understanding eludes me. Have you ever studied Greek? I get the impression that Muslims don't accept a "mystery" regarding God. I don't mean that as an insult to Muslims and I could be wrong. In Christianity, we accept the "mystery" of God because He is all-knowing and we are limited, finite creatures. Right? So many things we will never comprehend, as you said ! I like your way of talking because I tend to think similar to you. Thanks so much for your time and effort. God bless

@Paper-Z

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 You gat me confused with your comments 😂. One moment, I am like, 'I think he is Muslim', the other, 'he is probably Christian'😂😂

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

@@Paper-Z That's okay. I confuse myself too. I guess my problem is that I believe some Islamic beliefs and I also believe some Christian beliefs/doctrines. Do you think that is bad? Anyhow.... God knows my heart, and whether I be Muslim or Christian, I need to submit to Him. Peace

Think of the obscene blasphemy of equating the God of Israel who is also Allah to a dead Jew on a stick convicted of blaspheming against Him.

@theunclejesusshow8260

2 жыл бұрын

Ahem Cuzinz

@ConsideringPhlebas

2 жыл бұрын

Dude, you don't even believe in the Quran, you just hate Christianity. Give it a rest.

Ontological what?

@sonbahar5296

Жыл бұрын

An "ontological" argument is a philosophical argument, made from an ontological basis, that is advanced in support of the existence of God, arguments tend to refer to the state of being or existing.

The whole thing sounds like anthropomorphism and idolatry.

He's not working with the right definition of death.

Enlightened Christians doesn't accept incarnation of ancient greeks and Indians. This is racist explanation of God. We all are children of God. God will incarnate in every nation to guide them.

@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156

2 жыл бұрын

I have not watched yet, and most probably may not watch half of it! However, I believe in Allaah the Creator in the Qur'aan not human sayings, for Muslims may or may not agree with you, I don't know, the idea that we, humans, are the children of God is opposite to the Islaamic sense (Qur'aan); so we are all, as it is all that exist (visible or invisible), created by Allaah's imperative masculine singular word "Kun"! = "Be"!

Excellent example of the blind trying to lead the blind... Exactly what can be expected when people are blinded by the greatest deceiver, hiding everything that caused man's fall as well as the one who came to deliver those who believe on him from satan's bondage.

@karimb972

2 жыл бұрын

You're wasting your time with your angry comments and your insults against God's chosen one. Life is short and time is the most precious commodity. Why don't you focus on your heart, your soul, your relation with your Maker and His Word instead of trying to pick fights with Muslims. You're not converting anyone here and not getting closer to God with your comments. No one here but a few young Muslims full of testosterone and fighting spirit cares that you believe that we are hostage to satan. If you spent less time being mad with us you might very well discover that you might be the one that is in bondage. Do you care about what God wills or being right? About truth or making sure that "Christendom" and the idea of the trinity prevails in the hearts of people?

@andrevisser7542

2 жыл бұрын

@@karimb972, no my friend I'm not angry, it is sad to see how people are deceived and blinded, not able to see the truth, not realizing who they are busy with. Also not trying to convert anyone, only try to get people to think for themselves, don't believe everything you get told. In my journey I had to get rid of a lot of lies and misconceptions that we grow up with, still learning new stuff daily. I'm fine, thanks for your concern about my relationship with the one true Creator, found the way years ago, all in His manual...

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrevisser7542 I'm getting old but like you I'm "still learning new stuff daily." The only problem I have is that such knowledge becomes overwhelming and my finite mind says to me " go back to being ignorant" !!

@andrevisser7542

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076, yes that other guy called the deceiver doesn't want us to find truth, once you find it you become a nightmare to him. 😂 Never stop asking, never stop searching, never give up... Blessings.

This is very confusing, probably a person needs a lifetime studying this issue. A very clear point is the blood atonement story. Watching the Passion of the Christ movie you know how unwilling the Christ was in surrendering himself to the "sacrifice". He was overpowered by few weak backward individuals, who represent the sinners of all humanity. The story doesn't narrate the Father sacrificed His only Son, this is read into it. Rather it narrates, God the Son was unwillingly being humiliated and killed by few weak individuals. Probably, the story should state clearly God the Father sacrificed, by himself or through an agent, His only Son as an atonement for sinners of all times. But I never read this directly anywhere.

@SecularKoranism

2 жыл бұрын

The idolatry and blasphemy of Christianity should be pointed out to Christians.

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with you Emran when you said "This is very confusing... " And I don't have a "lifetime" to study. I'm getting old. Peace

@johnbrzykcy3076

2 жыл бұрын

@j4m13456 I appreciate your comments. I personally don't think we should bring down people of any religion, whether it be Islam or Christianity. I think we need to keep pointing out to Muslims the love of God because they do seem to focus so much on specific doctrines with Christianity. I think if we focus too much on difficult doctrines, the real truth about Christianity, that God loves us, becomes buried under 6 feet of muddy definitions and assumptions. What do you think? Peace and God bless

@SecularKoranism

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbrzykcy3076 If you are Christian, you are an idolater worshiping an executed blasphemer as the co-equal of the God of Israel who is also Allah. No Jew or Muslim should take seriously the views of idolaters so lacking in self awareness or in denial that they don’t understand idolatry when it is clearly and repeatedly explained to them. It is bemusing that you think God is some kind of moral relativist, just like you.

@SecularKoranism

2 жыл бұрын

@j4m13456 Christianity is the religion of idolaters and blasphemers in denial that they are idolaters and blasphemers worshiping an executed blasphemer as the co-equal of the God of Israel who is also Allah. Jews and Muslims should be ashamed of themselves for not challenging the idolatry and blasphemy of Christianity even as they know they enjoy free speech in the West.

This guy is ignorant as, the Bible doesn't teach a person himself dies but the body of the person dies. Solomon even wrote the spirit returns back to God. Jesus rebuked the Sadducees saying God of Abraham is the God of the living and not the God of the dead.

Is the Trinity the stupidest thing you have ever heard of, and then some?

@kamelabdelgafar8545

2 жыл бұрын

Father 1 person 100% God Son 1 person 100% God Holy Spirit 1 person 100% God. What do you see in the Christian Disneyland paradise? 1 God being or 3 persons who are 100% God? and if that one god in being is the father, the son & the holy spirit and Jesus sits/stands next to the right side of God in paradise then you have 2 sons? It's a jungle book mystery!!

@Crazy88277

2 жыл бұрын

I heard of a Man who was caravan raider who went to a cave by himself and claimed to be a prophet and married a 6 or 7yr old. That was the stupidest thing I ever heard.

@kamelabdelgafar8545

2 жыл бұрын

@j4m13456 oh God, another person who twists verses from the Quran and gives it his own twist.. about you claim sura 43:61 that jesus is god. You can simply read the verse before verse 59 where it says: He (Jesus) is no more than a servant. We gave him Our favor and We made him an example to the Children of Israel. (Claim Debunked). On verse 61 - 63 your claim that Jesus is THE KNOWLEDGE: And he will be a known Sign for the Hour. Therefore have no doubt. And follow Me! This is the straight Path. (a sign from who)? And when Isa came with (Our) clear proofs, he said: "I have come to you with wisdom that I may make clear to you some things about which you differ, "So fear Allah and obey me. (It clearly says he has come with wisdom/knowledge, not that he is Wisdom, received knowledge from Allah and worship whom, Allah and obey whom? Allah!!). an advice for you that you want to twist the bible you have to know yourself but with the Quran you will not prove anything to make seem like Jesus is god. You should also read Sura 118. conclusion: bible and quran clearly indicate: Jesus is NOT God.

@SecularKoranism

2 жыл бұрын

@@Crazy88277 The Koran is the best available guide to humanity.

@Crazy88277

2 жыл бұрын

@@SecularKoranism yeah that’s why Islamic countries are doing so great and so many Muslims migrate to them and not western secular countries. Yup 👍 🙄

( Do Christians And Jews and "OTHER" non-Muslims go to Heaven? ) Quran 2:62 '' Those who believe (in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians->ANYAllah Quran 22:40 [They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, " Our Lord is God " And were it not that God checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of God is much mentioned. And God will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, God is Powerful and Exalted in Might. Note: Why did Allah protected Churches and Synagogues if they worship false Allah ? ( Why Are There So Many Different Religions In The World ? ) Quran 5 48 ''...... If God wanted He could have made all of you a single nation.( ie single religion ) But He willed otherwise in order to test you in what He has given you (ie Scriptures) therefore try to excel one another in good deeds. Ultimately you all shall return to God then He will show you the truth of those matters in which you '' >DISPUTE verb Islam mean "submission" to God ( The above verse saying is that God will not accept a religion from the >MUSLIM Question: How Can Muslim And the Non-Muslim "submit" to the God? Answer: Be kind to other human beings and Do not lie, Do not steal, Do not cheat, Do not hurt others, Do not be prideful and Do the charity work. Note: If you obeyed all the ABOVE Allah-God's moral laws "YOU" submitted to God.( ie Islam mean "submission" to God ) The only people who will enter Paradise those who '' Submitted to God '' ( ie by Good Deeds ) God does NOT accept your religion of birth but only ''Your Total'' Submission to Him. ( God Allows Interfaith Marriages And Eat Food From the Christian And Jew And Vice Versa ) Quran 5:5 ''This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture (ie Christian and Jew) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And lawful in marriage are chaste women from among the believers (ie Muslim ) and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture (ie Christian and Jew) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless and he in the Hereafter will be among the losers.'' Note: > Only 14 hundredsSame God ALL Corrupt Question to Muslim and Christian: Does God / Allah only answer your pray ? And God / Allah does not answer non Muslim / non Christian pray? Did Allah '' Canceled '' all other religions Judaism and Christianity? Quran 5:48 '' And We have revealed to you [O Muhammad] the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture ( ie New and old Testament ) and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. >>>TO EACH OF YOU WE PRESCRIBED A LAW AND A METHODone nation>differ qualified On the day of judgement God will ''NOT'' judge humanity bases on Sunni Muslim sect VS Shia Muslim sect ''NOR'' by Muslim VS non-Muslim >but '' YOUR " birth in the Muslim's family is NOT a > qualification '' YOUR " religion / sect / foot long beard is NOT a > qualification The > qualification Faith in God and Good Work

@Skeptical754

2 жыл бұрын

Bruh you’re everywhere

@pabloa3478

2 жыл бұрын

@@Skeptical754 I rate him. He's got a good and true message

@kaz4845

2 жыл бұрын

@@Skeptical754, he is not Muslim. You will see the issue if you read what he says

@irshadali-xh1se

2 жыл бұрын

You are partially right. If someone has heard Islam, and didn't accept it, will go to hell. The way of praying had changed, Allah had given new rules on how to pray to him, unlike Jews and the crhsitsn. Allah was most likely talking about the Jews and the Christians of the older times, who were on straight path

Oh Paul, you are getting old much quicker than time itself. Soon you will be in a wheel chair...

@BenM61

2 жыл бұрын

He looks great. You’re just jealous that’s all.

Majority of scholars, including Muslims favourite non Muslim scholar, Bart Ehrman, agrees the crucifixion of Jesus is an historical FACT? Muslims cherry pick their guests , as they do the Scriptures, Quran and Hidiths. 😃

@yesImAliveYeees

2 жыл бұрын

I like how you caps locked the word "fact" but not historical. 😃

@faisalwho

2 жыл бұрын

@Baal Buster Bart says exactly what Muslims believe. If it was made to appear that he died on the cross and had Bart said he didn’t die on the cross, then it wasn’t made to appear so. The fact that it was made to appear so is exactly why Bart says the person died on the cross. I like how christians think that somehow the death of a single man on a cross means that god came down to earth as a human. “BaRT sAiD jESuS dieD whIcH mEaNS goD DiEd”

@cmfadel

2 жыл бұрын

Historical Facts are not absolute truth just testimony... a lot of "historical facts" have proven later to be false.

@baalbuster9294

2 жыл бұрын

@@cmfadel Oxford dictionary: “Fact” a thing that is known or proved to be true.

@baalbuster9294

2 жыл бұрын

@@faisalwho Wrong . Bart says Jesus WAS crucified on the cross . If Bart does teach what Muslims believe then need to abandon your straw man argument that Paul invented Christianity. Bart fully agrees that is complete nonsense considering he set out to destroy Christianity as a zealous Pharisee and considering the high level of authenticity he left and endured such animosity , it’s a ridiculous claim .

Trinity doctrine is not a fundamental belief in Christianity. The doctrine is acceptable only in Trinitarian Christianity, and not based on the Bible. By the way, Muslims believe not possible for spiritual beings like Jesus Christ to enter spacetime as a material being, yet they believe the following: 1. Muhammad flew on "buraq" 2. Muhammad traversed our entire Universe (and back) to negotiate with Allah 3. Moon split 4. Yajuj and Majuj and metal wall, all "invisible", yet to be found

@samkb6374

2 жыл бұрын

Bro, did you watch the video or what? Your claim regarding Muslims believe about Jesus pbuh is nonsense and your points after that has nothing to do with the LOGICAL problems discussed in this video. Again, watch the video till the end because you really missing the point here.

@tombuddy100

2 жыл бұрын

@@samkb6374 You did not impart any new information with your comment. Have you watched the video?

@HussainFahmy

2 жыл бұрын

*_Muslims can never digest your delusional belief that Jesus (pbuh) had a brutal death on the cross. Really, God dies?_*

@tombuddy100

2 жыл бұрын

@@HussainFahmy Why do you think Jesus is God?

@samkb6374

2 жыл бұрын

@@tombuddy100 You talking nonsense sorry. Watch the video an see how your own Christians scholars and theologians admitting the logical fallacy of the incarnation. Also watch the part where Christians, just like you try to critique a couple Islamic concepts were you guys miserably fail. I’m not here to give you new information. I’m here to mention that you’re totally wrong and need to check out the full video so you may understand.

The Gospel: Plain and Simple “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” - 2 Corithians 11:3 Ask someone today if they are saved and you will most likely hear responses like these: “I have accepted Jesus into my heart.” Or “I have made him Lord of my life.” “I’ve been baptized.” “I said a prayer.” Sounds all good and churchy don’t it; but it is difficult to de-termine whether or not a person actually knows the gospel that saves them. These use￾less phrases don’t describe a thing about what the gospel is and has left a devastating effect of people not knowing what it is that they are saved from nor how they are saved; which leaves a more serious effect of people ques￾tioning their salvation. Let’s not muddy the simplicity of salva￾tion that is in Christ with vague church sounding phrases that do not communicate anything. But rather present God’s word with clarity and assuredness. So here is the gospel: plain and simple. Sin was passed upon all men by one man Adam, and death is a consequence of this sin (Rom 5:12). Mankind has an eternal destiny of condemnation and wrath - Hell - because of this sin (Rom 6:23). No matter what good works one might do we are still found sinners in the sight of our Creator God. And all un￾righteousness and those who follow get in￾dignation and wrath. We cannot be found righteous for by God’s law we are found sin￾ners (Rom 3:19-20). If we have broken even one law we are found guilty. It is for this reason of not being able to create our own righteousness and being born in a sinful flesh that we need a savior (Titus 3:5). Christ is that Savior, God manifested in the flesh, sinless, died in our place on a cross 2000 years ago. Taking upon him the wrath and judgement that was intended for us sin￾ners. And it is through his bloodshed, burial, and resurrection on our behalf that we are able to have peace with God and forgiveness of our sins (1 Cor 15:1-4, Col 3:14). This good news is unto all but only those that believe in it are made righteous in Christ (Romans 3:22). It is then after we have heard this good news of Christ’s righteousness available to us freely, that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and we are now part of Christ’s body the church (Eph 1:13) There is nothing that we need to do, no good works that are required, and no bad works that can separate us from our new po￾sition in Christ (Romans 8:35-39). Faith and belief in this information from God’s word is the gospel. The gospel is not accepting Jesus into your heart. The gospel is not making him lord of your life, it is not saying a prayer and it is not being baptized with water. So next time someone asks you if you are saved. Give them the clear assured answer Yes And let me tell you why Find more free resources at: www.graceambassadors.com

@BenM61

2 жыл бұрын

I noticed you quoted only Saul the fraud from his made up gospel to make your point that every human being is punished for the sin passed on from Adam. It is a lie of course. Can you show us anything Jesus said to corroborate the gospel of that liar Saul. Original sin is a fabrication invented by Saul the fraud and Jesus is a innocent from that fraudulent man.