Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - Blinkist: blinkist.com/lex and use code LEX to get a free week of premium - Neuro: www.getneuro.com and use code LEX to get 15% off - MasterClass: masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off annual sub - Cash App: cash.app/ and use code LexPodcast to get $10 2:25 - Working with Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Jeff Dean 7:55 - Why do programming languages matter? 13:55 - Python vs Swift 24:48 - Design decisions 30:06 - Types 33:54 - Programming languages are a bicycle for the mind 36:26 - Picking what language to learn 42:25 - Most beautiful feature of a programming language 51:50 - Walrus operator 1:01:16 - LLVM 1:06:28 - MLIR compiler framework 1:10:35 - SiFive semiconductor design 1:23:09 - Moore's Law 1:26:22 - Parallelization 1:30:50 - Swift concurrency manifesto 1:41:39 - Running a neural network fast 1:47:16 - Is the universe a quantum computer? 1:52:57 - Effects of the pandemic on society 2:10:09 - GPT-3 2:14:28 - Software 2.0 2:27:54 - Advice for young people 2:32:37 - Meaning of life

@gregorycurley7649

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Lex

@yt-sh

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Mr Fridman

@yt-sh

3 жыл бұрын

Can you do more Steve Jobs & Elon Musk related podcast, like talk to Jony Ive(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive), internal Creative/Technical works in Apple, Tesla etc Thanks

@nejm612

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@coreyw6634

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Lex really appreciate the time stamps, extremely helpful to find certain points of the conversation I find really interesting (everything is interesting)

*"It turns out if you ask a lot of dumb questions you become smarter really quick."* - Chris Lattner

@OghamTheBold

3 жыл бұрын

I got AI (Awesome Insight) when ask-king _Economics Discord_ folks - What is _Heterodox Economics?_ My *quick* banning still does *smart* - It was a lot of 1 dumb question as their rules forbid discussion of it *one* later found to my dismay

@TheGreatBlackBird

3 жыл бұрын

""It turns out if you ask a lot of dumb questions you become smarter really quick." - Chris Lattner" -Chris Offner

@cowofdeath777

3 жыл бұрын

this is my exact experience

@MissEviscerator

3 жыл бұрын

Haha, med school 101. The accompanying public humiliation also makes it harder to forget (in a nice way).

@josephwong2832

3 жыл бұрын

The concept of "dumb question" itself is stupid. If you have a question, ask it as soon as possible so you're unblocked to think beyond that!

I love the more technical hard computer science and hardware guests. Please do more 🙂

@blancobricks306

3 жыл бұрын

Hey from the ghurjut youluytrttdyg

@louis3195

3 жыл бұрын

I prefer compound knowledge

@krishna_o15

3 жыл бұрын

yeah more system oriented core guys and gals.

@inception252

3 жыл бұрын

im kinda sad, cant find michael and someone on his podcast it only has 11min in lex clips

@mattizzle81

2 жыл бұрын

True, no BS, just a practical point of view.

Lex is quickly becoming my favorite podcaster

@mcnallyaar

3 жыл бұрын

He's I think mah number 4 or 5. I need to make a proper list.

@JetLee1544

3 жыл бұрын

My first now, what else do you suggest?

@vert2701

3 жыл бұрын

@@JetLee1544 sam harris, eric weinstein and sean carrol

@sosukearnold6123

3 жыл бұрын

@@JetLee1544 Joe Rogan his podcast is very general tho

@kdot9527

3 жыл бұрын

agreed he's def rising the ranks for me.

Aren't tech nerds fun to listen to... I'm a retired programmer and loved this. Thanks Lex and Chris.

@insertoyouroemail

3 жыл бұрын

Why did you retire?

@chrismackay9268

3 жыл бұрын

I am a Software Engineer currently and really enjoyed this too, I am in awe at the depth of knowledge Chris Lattner has.

@joey199412

3 жыл бұрын

@@insertoyouroemail Not him but the field of software engineering is really stressful and you make a lot of money which means you both want and can retire early which is why a lot of people retire from the field in their 40s or 50s to dedicate more time to other hobbies that are less stressful. Over someone's lifetime the software world changes a lot and you're constantly expected to keep up with every development and crunch your projects. Human bodies can't really stand that as long as other fields which have a more consistent workflow.

@insertoyouroemail

3 жыл бұрын

@@joey199412 thank you for your insight!

@Hexanitrobenzene

3 жыл бұрын

@@chrismackay9268 Yeah, he is not afraid of trying new and hard things and being in "learning mode". Also, as he himself said, he has a rare ability to find first principles and unifying vision in a messy domain. I imagine such people are awesome to work with, but in a way, they are also somewhat scary :), because they *will* challenge you as well.

I like how this video is over 2 hours long, has been out for 13 minutes, and is flooded with comments already

Don't ever change, Lex. The terrors of our world have blinded and twisted many of our perceptions. But the love and passion you share with your podcast is a shining light in the darkness of 2020.

"The Universe is a compiler." - Chris Lattner, 2020

@gavtronics

2 жыл бұрын

"penis" -me, today

@salman8562

2 жыл бұрын

FAXX

@anatalelectronics4096

2 жыл бұрын

The universe is a virtual machine, not sure who compiled it me 2022

Lex, you are an awesome human. Joscha Bach, again, please! Talk about Wolfram’s physics! 🤯

@lexfridman

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, for sure, we'll make it happen many more times. Joscha is great.

@Sonofsol

3 жыл бұрын

The Joscha Bach episode was the greatest of all time. I can’t wait for the sequel!

@shoubhikdasguptadg9911

3 жыл бұрын

Lex I am dying to see Geroge hotz Part 2, I beg you , pleaseeeee!

@tunnelsloth5948

3 жыл бұрын

@@lexfridman Bach has his own quantum mechanics theory that's similar to Wolfram's in many ways, and specifically has a bet running that quantum computing will never actually be superior to classical computing. (Wolfram seems to be in a similar camp but left the door open, on his last podcast appearance.) Would be interesting to get his thoughts on that, even if it's not his domain of expertise.

@andrewroberthook3310

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/oqyWuLFpgNCupdI.html

"So much of language design is about trade offs and you can't see those trade offs unless you have a community of people that really represent those different points. " Chris Lattner (I ❤️ him.)

Chris has been one of the most clear and well thought guests yet. He has a way of breaking down problems into simple pieces. Hope to see him back soon, he has a lot of wholesome wisdom to share.

The 'advice for teachers' comment brought a tear to my eye. It's early morning and I clearly have my guard down, but these interactions, and often lack thereof, influenced my life deeply as I grew up. I appreciate the 'real talk' from you, Lex, and I hope that some of the teachers out there reflect on this; it could be life-changing.

43:20 I think the noble goal of a programming language should be to encourage comprehensible solutions rather than quick solutions.

His smile is so comforting.

@Hexanitrobenzene

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that particular smile with half-closed eyes :) For example, 24:15 "...you can call malloc() if you really want to call malloc() !" with those hand movements rofl :) I imagine he is a cool person to work with.

@deleted01

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hexanitrobenzene His squinting smile reminds me of Ben Shapiro. I know-different personas, but the physical resemblance is striking

What I learned from this podcast is I need to smile more often like Chris Lattner

yeah this is what i needed early in the morning , "the following is a podcast..."

Chris seems so happy, intelligent and passionate, I would love to work with someone like him someday.

You should TOTALLY get Jonathan Blow on and talk about the programming language he is making.

@mattshubat

3 жыл бұрын

YES PLEASE!!

@atmatey

3 жыл бұрын

That would be awesome! He is one of my idols and his games are some of my favorites of all time.

@steveoc64

3 жыл бұрын

Seconded, that would be good. Jai is not opensource at all ... but interesting ideas still, worth a chat.

@Casevil669

3 жыл бұрын

Yes please, Blow is a deep thinker.

@charlesrosenbauer3135

3 жыл бұрын

Jonathan Blow would just be an amazing guest in general.

We will always remember his winning shot he hit while playing for Duke in the National Championship

This podcast was a blast! You two have a great dynamic!

Hope the Hotz episode comes out soon!

@lexfridman

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, this week. It's a fun one.

@subz424

3 жыл бұрын

@@lexfridman I thought Hotz was coming out today, but this it turned out to be a better situation. It's like having your cake and eating it too. Excellent episode today and one to still look forward to 🙂. Thanks Lex!

1:04:58 I used to program in FORTRAN. Wrote Star Trek games on an IBM 4361 back in '87.

@oldcountryman2795

3 жыл бұрын

You sure you didn't just get the Super Star Trek source code and start modding it? '87 is pretty late to the game.

@SHONNER

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldcountryman2795 Before then, I was playing around with Star Trek variants from the early '70s using HP-2000's BASIC.

Thank you, Lex, for interviewing amazing people! I struggle to listen to the whole interview, especially when discussing different programming languages, compilers, etc. I got lost. But Chris Lattner is such an inspiration. Converting self-doubt, inadequacy into fuel to learn more that's amazing! Like Yuval Noah Harari said, our generation should "build a tent," so we must always be ready to move from one job to another, acquire new skills, and constantly learn.

The beginning of this podcast reminds me when I just started learning python and pandas (right before 1.0). While debugging (i.e. googling stack overflow), I came across a 'bug'/'dispute' on how objects and values where being handled. I was surprised on how political the discussion felt...

@Hexanitrobenzene

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathankayhan4358 Spaces for the win :)

Lex, you should invite Alex Stepanov. He was the main influence behind C++'s STL, popularized generic programming and has great insights on both history of programming languages and computing.

@robertw1871

Жыл бұрын

Generics; the greatly enhanced ability to reuse lots of bad code quickly and ubiquitously, while bringing new meaning to verbose structure trying to contain the wilderness…. -R

This talk is a goldmine. Also great to see the friendship they share.

holy shit i have never understood a conversation less. Beautiful Lex!

This is really cool! Thanks for the in-depth discussion on programming language design

Amazing interview! Chris Lattner is so humble and inspirational, and Lex's interview touches on so many meaningful points in modern development while keeping the discussion pertinent and accessible. A great discussion with two really nice people.

I’ve been a Swift developer for 5.5 years. It’s a fantastic language.

Thought provoking questions and a lot of great answers from Chris. Some of it was over my head but love the interview.

Wow, this guy is incredible. He has a huge depth of knowledge on so many areas of computing and conveys it simply to the listener, amazing podcast

Lattner interviews are the best. He's the rare combination of elite engineer and elite communicator.

This was easily my favorite episode of your entire podcast series

Thanks for this video . This conversation can go on and on and still fun to watch and learn .Great work to both of you Lex and Chris. Lex ,you have been able to invite people on on your channel without you it will be unknown for them to share their thoughts enthusiasm and idea . Thanks again

I feel you've amounted to a whole lot, thanks for everything you do :)

Stack overflow could train an AI that integrates with your IDE and gives you possible solutions while debugging.

@dankoni

3 жыл бұрын

good idea 🤓

@zzej

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-ol5bj4dm2v there’s not much to it really. Just search for the error message and return the top 3 rated answers for now.

@excitedbox5705

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-ol5bj4dm2v Kite uses ai to figure out which function you are most likely to use next. I am actually researching something along the lines right now. You need to teach a computer to understand the problem and break it into smaller pieces. I am using a mix of supervised learning and expert knowledge for training. For generative NN there are a bunch of methods like multi parameter optimization, attention, genetic, convolution etc. I want to make a circuit designing AI so I need to teach it with a bunch of basic circuits and parts to understand what pieces are used to make them and then it can try to optimize them and combine them to build larger pieces. It needs a DB of parts and their attributes such as input and output voltage and which pin does what. In addition to price and lots of other stuff. For the optimization I want it to use Spice simulations and net lists to calculate which part needs to be used to give you the right input voltage and current. I also specified a circuit description language so I can tell the AI what I want. If I say I want a circuit that connects an Arduino to a motor it will figure out what parts need to go between the two and using the DB of parts generate netlists, do spice simulations to make sure they are compatible and optimize for energy consumption, parts count, and price. It comes down to being very similar to a NLP problem where the engineering rules are the grammar or syntax and the components the words. The smaller circuits are like sentences and paragraphs that are assembled into texts.

Lex, I know you're a coffee drinker but I want to request you to make an exception of having Chai for an interview on Chai Time Data Science, it'd be an honour to host you. Thank you for all of your content and love!

@ChaiTimeDataScience

3 жыл бұрын

@@bahmansadeghi9243 Thanks so much for watching! 🍵

@shoubhikdasguptadg9911

3 жыл бұрын

yes Sanyam, we need him on chai time!

@ChaiTimeDataScience

3 жыл бұрын

@@shoubhikdasguptadg9911 I will keep trying to get Lex on the show. Hopefully we'll make it happen soon 🙂

Thanks Lex for this great interview I really enjoy it a lot. Chris is a good human being who inspires people to do meaningful things.

I‘d really like to see an interview with Karpathy!

On my own coding journey these computer science themed guests have been amazing conversations. Keep it up 👍

The intro was one of the best in the podcast.

Talk to Brian Anderson about Rust!!!

@panstromek

3 жыл бұрын

I'd love to see NIko or Felix here, too!

Would love to see you talk with Douglas Hofstadter. 🙂

Great Episode! specially good reflections these times!

You are great Lex. Thanks for contributing these conversations with brilliant people to the humble masses. The smallest among us benefit the most; people who will never see Harvard Yard or Yale grounds. Thanks for doing what you do, I'm not nearly as smart as you, but I appreciate your work.

I love the wholesome feel of this interview.

Hey Lex, this was a great one! I'm really hoping for another Jim Keller podcast. Thanks for my favorite podcast!!

This interview had lots of insightful ideas. Thanks for making it, Lex.

whoa. this interview. absolutely incredible interview, business leaders should be watching

I have been practising the Mindfulness of Breathing technique kzread.infoUgkxIIDVgnLN8pF_fPOyoZ1nTjbLvvZcib6r as taught in this CD for about 2 years having read about it in Paramananda's Change Your Mind book and taken a real liking to it. However at times I struggle to remain focused on the breathing and thought that at such times this guided version might suit me. So after two years I finally decided to buy it! The first 7'24 of Track 1 of the CD is a body relaxtion which I do not use: I don't like body relaxation techniques and I find 27' just a little too long for meditation. The remaining 20' of gentle, guided meditation helps me tremendously to relax and stay focused. I find him's voice very soothing and whilst he is present to guide you through the 4 stages of the meditation, his presence is not intrusive or distracting. For the past two years I have tried to follow this technique as best I can with gentle meditation music despite music not being recommended. Having used this CD a couple of times I think I will try from now on to adopt a new routine of no music and just this CD as I find it so helpful. I realise now that the music really is distracting and I have enjoyed listening to the ambient sounds around me which I am normally unaware of. I can not comment on the other 2 tracks of Metta or Walking Meditation as I bought the CD solely to help me with the Mindfulness of Breathing and it does just that - very effectively. In my opinion this CD is money very well spent as it will guide you through a thoroughly useful and beneficial meditation technique and I don't think you can put a price on that.

Appreciate all that you do. You spread knowledge and love.

This is one of your best episodes. Thank you.

Amazing talk, Lex. Keep up the good work!

45:10 I feel that way about racket and scheme languages. So few languages allow libraries to grow syntax. 2:20:00 Through representation learning neural nets can be made really small.

Lex you have to talk about the financial system and the risks with Ai.

“Don’t get romantic on me Lex,” clearly Chris is a fan of the podcast.

Another amazingly interesting video, thank you Lex and Chris for your work!

Thanks for this!

Lex will be the first big podcaster to have a ‘Public KZread Video’ with zero thumbs down and only thumbs up!!! i believe it!!

Liked the vid, it was a stroll down memory lane for me as having started computer programming back in the late '70s so had the struggle with early tech in a variety of businesses. The look forward was a bit bleak but still there is hope for us all.

The godfather of my favourite language on my favourite podcast ... for 2,5 hours. This made my day 🙏🏻

I eagerly await your version of Twitter, Lex. I'd happily be on the wait list for that.

Adding swift to the learn-list... great talk, as always

Smart people do love to teach! I really love this guy.

We use the equal sign for assigning variable values because it is a convention pulled directly from algebraic expressions.

@Hexanitrobenzene

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think so. Assignment in programming is local. Equating in algebra is rather global. If there is iteration involved, algebra uses indexes to discern which value belongs to which particular iteration. There is essentially no overwriting allowed to avoid ambiguity. I think "=" in programming is pure convenience - just one keystroke. Pascal language actually used ":=" for assignment.

swift is an absolutely gorgeous language and extremely functional and powerful. Chris Lattner is an absolute genius. Lex please also interview Iain McGilchrist. Love your conversations to these thought leaders in the world!

Great talk guys. Given Chris Lattner's track record and that he apparently has to love what he does, the fact he has landed at SiFive finally convinces me that RISC V is going to be huge. Not that I needed much convincing before. This is great news. All the best with that.

His smiling throughout explanations is really charismatic. It's only charismatic and not off-putting (or even obnoxious) because he knows what he's talking about inside out and consequently exudes utmost confidence in his words. One other person I know like this was Richard Feynman.

This guy is a legend, remember it was kind of a big deal when he joined Tesla.

this is the nicest person i have ever seen and lex is second only in niceness to this guy. geez. thank you so much

Thanks for your time, I don't understand anything but keep the podcast coming please

Amazing interview, very informative and uplifting.

I would love to see this conversatio but for non native english its difficult without subtitles. Otherwise your job is amazing Lex! Thak u so much. Love for everyone

Great discussion. Chris is so well spoken!

Brilliant. Didn't understand 90%. Understood the significance of everything just from this man's passion.

RICH HICKEY creator of CLOJURE would be an absolutely amazing guest!! or DHH of rails fame!!

@ryan_c_letsgo

3 жыл бұрын

or Simon Peyton Jones !!!

@l_combo

3 жыл бұрын

oh yes, Rich and Simon would both be awesome! + the creator or Erlang too (I forget his name)

@mtoman

3 жыл бұрын

@@l_combo unfortunately passed away last year en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Armstrong_(programmer)

@l_combo

3 жыл бұрын

@@mtoman oh how sad, what a life and contribution though. Much respect.

@mtoman

3 жыл бұрын

@@l_combo Yeah I also agree that it might have been an interesting interview

Thank you for the podcast!

Hey Lex, could you do an episode on "The Great Reset" and the technocratic agenda?

Support you. Really great podcast 👍👍👍

This was great. Thank you so much, both of you.

ultra-cool!! thank you all for podcast )

" ... real value comes from doing things that are hard." - Lattner

Not to many people of that caliber and success are so quick to remind you that they got to where they are through a lot of luck as well as their work and talent. Lattner is such an impressive person in so many ways, but that stood out to me at 2:30:30.

You should probably consider having Andrey Breslav on, the guy leading the Kotlin project.

Hi Lex! I tried to watch your podcast from Spotify, but couldn't figure out how to get the video to show up! If you don't have video on the Spotify podcasts, could you look up on how to get the same video up there? Loved how Joe Rogan managed that!

Лешенька! Thank you for awesome content!🤗🤗

Excellent podcast Chris was a great guest.

Great interview! And by the way, Can we have auto generated subtitles for this video? thanks 🙏

you are a master at editing lex

Very wise discussions. Another great pod cast! Thank you chris and lex god bless you both for your studies

@andrewroberthook3310

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/oqyWuLFpgNCupdI.html

Maybe the podcast I've enjoyed the most, loved the questions and Chris answers, he seems pretty nice and intelligent.

@jcarc5701

3 жыл бұрын

That’s an understatement. This Chris guy might be the most knowledgeable wrt to computer languages. On top of that very personable and humble.

Swift is the language that got me into programming. Thanks Chris!

Hmm, I was on board for a while. But can also see you can create and work with purely abstract types in (say) C++ and accomplish all the stated advantages of languages like swift without the need to create another language barrier. Value semantics, copy on write, operator overloading, integer classes, it's all there. So long as you can see through the bracket/semi colon/tab bias. With the advantages of well trodden understood abilities to dive drive down to lower level coding.

Clever and humble. this guy.

Came here from witney podcast... She and him had such a nice, deep conversation about life and love... Vorzüglich 🌷

Love your stuff. you are awesome. keep doing you man😎😎

Chris is so inspiring. One of the most intellectually satisfying podcast from this series. So inspiring I have decided to learn compiler technology. Any suggestions for newbie?

@nickcalabrese4829

Жыл бұрын

I see this comment is old but if you’re still looking (and more probably for other people who are interested) crafting interpreters is great and so is the dragon book by aho et all. Probably start with crafting interpreters because it’s free online. The dragon book is way better technically but it’s not as much of a tutorial.

@nirajabcd

Жыл бұрын

@@nickcalabrese4829 crafting interpreters seems go-to book for the starters based on reviews. Just ordered a hard copy version.

For professional software engineers who are working in a specific space like enterprise web applications or data management, who are curious about getting into compiler design/development, what would be the most effective way to make that transition?

Loved this one. Chris is super good at explaining stuff! Keep it going Lex, t's fascinating to see the progress this podcast made over the past ~2 years I've been listening to it. Not everybody has an opportunity to connect with this many amazing people like you do. I guess MIT helped, I just wonder what would happen if you were born in some poor African, Asian, etc. country. Luck is definitely an important factor in life as well. I do believe you can compensate for most of it through hard work, but still.