How good is range brass? kzread.info/dash/bejne/pWd3mtapetDcgNo.html

Can we all take a minute to appreciate how much work went into making this video? Weighing and volume testing 200 cases is not a quick or easy process. This man spent many, many hours working on this project to get good data to share with us.

@vdog4799

Жыл бұрын

Well spoken man! Heck yeah he did a fantastic job! And he shared his science! How cool is that! This guys is great man👍

@Meadsapiary

Жыл бұрын

Not taking anything away, but the results could be more conclusive.

This is exactly how most videos on KZread should be formatted! Present the data and explain it without a word salad. Short, concise, and informative. 👌 THANK YOU!

God I love data driven analysis like this in the reloading community. Keep up the good work.

...just bought 200 Starline as Lapua is never in stock, the case lengths were very consistent @1.745 +/- 0.001". I'm not worried about the internal volume until they're fireformed as it will change. Great video, thank you!

I’m in for Starline it’s consistent and 1/3the cost of lapua

Impressive Analysis....Never seen anything like that before...Thanks for the Effort in putting together such analysis...

I’ve wondered how they compare. Looking forward to this video!

Thanks for your time. I value your input.

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

"Ugh, yeah. I'm gonna need you go ahead and come in on Saturday." Great shirt. Nice info on the brass too. 🙂

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

I am curious of the case weight vs case voume of virgin brass maybe changing to a more consistent number after fireforming to a given chamber, annealing and then resizing. Maybe a follow up on this would be more conclusive.

@stuartsmith4882

Жыл бұрын

Came in to say exactly the same, far more interested in fireformed to chamber volume.

Thank you for the tests and all the great data that your videos bring. You really put a lot of time and effort into these videos every time. For me I have made the switch to Alpha OCD. They are every bit as good as Lapua and Peterson in my book. Occasionally I will get them on sale but otherwise they are about a buck a shell. I wish I could send you a box to evaluate but things are a little tight for now. Anyway thanks for the test!

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Jeff, I need to pick a box up at some point. I really wish that I could have a way to realistically life cycle some of these and show accuracy degradation (if there is any) and where it occurs. I appreciate the comments and if you ever see something that I missed that could be valuable info don't hesitate to point it out.

@Jeff_Seely

Жыл бұрын

You don't really miss much but I will and I look forward to all your content. Thanks for the continual work and sharing.

I think starline is really good for most things. if you were doing pro level competition, you'd be using Lapua or something similar.

@littledaddynesbit4193

2 ай бұрын

...I've just shot a 0.2" 4 shot group @100 yards with unprepared Starline .223 Rem brass. All I did was chamfer the inside of the primer hole and outside/inside of the neck for seating and chambering... very impressed!

Very good data!

Superb! Consider the added value Lapua puts into their product, nearly no extra brass prep steps. I have read reports that Lapua would last almost twice as many reloads as other brands. Factor in the cost of doing more load development with brass that is less consistent. Great work BAR!

@G5Hohn

Жыл бұрын

That’s a great point. The saved prep and great durability is compelling for Lapua. I like the starline for large primer brass but prefer small primer so I use Lapua or Peterson.

Thanks for sharing this brother,❤️👍Iam not that picky but some are ,I like small groups as much as anyone, but to each his own right 👍❤️

Interesting informative. Thanks

0.3 grains for less than half the price Starline for the win. It’s pretty much all I buy now since I buy in bulk. When Hornady was really cheap I would buy that too I always found it to be much softer but after a few loads it was very consistent.

any time I think I get too carried away with digging into #s...all I have to do is stop by here - and I get put in my place. Thanks for the vid

Starline .45 Colt brass is outstanding, and I switched over to it once I had a hard time getting Federal in that caliber. I find that the Starline brass really stands up to my very intense loads out of my Ruger Blackhawk.

Coming up with all these methods of measuring is good and all, but I'd rather see them compared where it matters. On paper down range. You still get a 👍for your effort.

I know it’s time consuming….but neck thickness variation would be a very important variable to measure as well in a head to head test like this

@robcooper1330

Жыл бұрын

That's what I was hoping would be in the video.

I just finished reloading 40 223 cases 40 times for PMC and Lepua and now am working on Remington then Hornady. This is the best measure I would believe in as the Lepua lasted so far twice as long and maybe more as I will continue to reload the Lepua until I need to throw them out as I did the PMC. Case volume, case weight, etc. will change over time as you reload so who cares what it's like new. I will post my result near the end of 2024 or sooner if I can for everyone to see. I also have Norma brass and will throw them in the group testing.

A ton or work went into this video - awesome job. Currently a pistol round only reloader using range brass, I'm curious why case volume is important? For most pistol loads, there is more than enough room for just about any reasonable amount of powder - some major PF loads may be the exception. Is this not true for many rifle loads? Does the small variance in case volume mean that much? Thanks again for your efforts. Well done.

Good video. I'm curious what happens to case volume AFTER firing and resizing. Since the case will have been fire formed, any external differences should be made more uniform and may increase internal differences as case wall thickness should remain fairly consistent.

@Spin-Drift-Ballistics

9 ай бұрын

Exactly 👍

I wish you would have checked the run out of the necks, or neck thickness variation.

adding to your video with regard to 223 brass: I reloaded PMC cases 40 times and by 20 reloads 1/2 of the cases were thrown out and by 40 reloads 3/4 of the rest were thrown out. I reloaded Lepua cases 40 times and by 40 reloads not one case thrown out ( currently I am at 55 reloads and 0 thrown out) I am reloading Rem. cases 40 times and so far by 23 reloads I thru out 2 cases. Next I will do Hornady, Winchester and Norma cases @ 40 reloads.

I would love to see groups between one brass and the other

Federal match brass is a great alternative. All will get loose primer pockets eventually. On rifle cartridges I usually end up getting around 6 reloads. After that regardless neck stretch will make case head separation likely. The caviat to that is straight will cases for single shot rifles don't need to be crimped, and minimal sizing and can be used almost indefinitely as described by 1800s Buffalo hunters.

The greatest variable that determines how well case weight vs case volume will correlate is the consistency of the case base diameter and extractor groove depth. until you sort the cases by extractor groove depth you will not be able to accurately determine the correlation between brands. Therefore, case volume is the only way to sort, and that should be done after the first firing. Once fired and not beat up bu an auto loader, trim the length, and then sort by volume.

@Gunners_Mate_Guns

Жыл бұрын

That's exactly how to do it for target shooting. After that, you can go to primer pocket uniforming and case neck turning if you're trying to milk out that last fraction of a millimeter smaller groups out of it.

Was this done with factory fresh brass? If so, it would be interesting to see how the volume chart looks with these same pieces of brass once fired.

I would still love to see longevity comparison data. Something tells me that might be a while in the making though.

Learned a lot from your videos. Much appreciated! When you mentioned the Lapua brass works well even after 20 reloads, may I know if you annealed them or not? Thank you.

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Yes I usually anneal. It was in 6.5 CM which the common failure is primer pockets, so that would not be affected by annealing for what its worth.

@eq2046

Жыл бұрын

@@BoltActionReloading Received with thanks!

love the Initech shirt haha

Great video. The biggest issue with Lapua is availability. If Lapua doesn't make it or I can't find it in stock, Starline is the next best solution. Beggars can't be choosers.

Thanks for your proffesional opinion on this subject. I have a question about bullets. The 145 gr 7mm variety. I recently purchased a box of 50 and I always check a few weights and diameters from each box/lot prior to reloading new ammunition. In this box I noticed inconsistant weights on the first few I checked. That promted me to weigh each bullet in this box and I found the low weights to be appropriately 144.7 gr and the high weights to be 146.6 gr and pretty much everything inbetween. I know my scale is not perfect but has always been very consistant. At what variations in weight would the finished ammunition be affected by the inconsistant weights, if any? Thanks, Paul

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

HI Paul, this is a great question. I do agree that the spread seems kind of high, but Brian Litz ahs some useful information here I think and that is that the only use for weighing them is to find a 168gr mixed in with the 175 gr. The great majority of us are never going to see the difference in them but I agree its hard to ignore. BAR

I've never had a bad experience with either and continue to use both, however, lapua is the gold standard for me, if you can justify the price.

For my uses, I look at how consistent the neck thickness is, and how thick they are to begin with. If they're too thin or out of round, I don't bother with them.

My question would be this. Would those measurements change and be either more or less consistent after fire forming those cases in the same rifle. So if you fire formed a group of those cases from Starline. Then fire from another group from lapua. Then run the same tests how would it come out.

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Hey nick that is a great question! Stay tuned and you may find out. 😉

I stick with Lapua in two of my favorite rifles calibers but avoid it like the plague in 6.5 Grendel. Something really weird going on with that cartridge for Lapua. Would even use Hornady over it. :(

@rmbettac

Жыл бұрын

Funny you mention that- I also experienced very early pressure signs in Lapua/Grendel across multiple powders. Doesn’t help the headspace on my barrel is just a touch tight. Starline and Hornady are much more compliant for pressure and velocity.

An American company making quality brass ‘Alpha Munitions’. Not cheap cost per 100 Creedmoor (sp)brass is $115.00, and that was with a veteran discount.

Starline has cases for more calibers that I shoot so it's a no-brainer for me.

I dig that shirt

I prep all varieties of cases for match shooting, both handgun and rifle and use a primer pocket uniformer to cut the bottom of the primer pockets to standard depth. You would be stunned at how much brass cuttings you end up with after only a hundred cases or so. NOT WITH (Lah-Poo-Ah)! Lapua primer pockets are of the tightest tolerances. Run a uniformer into the pocket of a Lapua case and you cut nothing… Flash hole dimensions are extremely consistent also.

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Hi Nigel, Everyone has their process. I used to pronounce Lapua just like you as well, I try my best. You might enjoy this if you enjoy pronouncing things correctly. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e4J_j5qEadvej8Y.html

If you use the Starline 5.56 brass instead of the .223, you get average 93 grain brass instead of 98 grain stuff which is really hard to work with in .223.

I’ll keep using starline for my revolvers and lapua for my rifled

I keep breaking the base on my star line 308 brass. Could use some advice.

Have you seen my red slingline stapler?

Alpha Munitions and it comes in a nice case, cheaper than Lapua but more than Starline. Quality is more important than price.

I have never used lapua as I just load 223 for ar15 and can’t justify the price for how beat up it gets. However I’ve had nothing but great luck with starline

I’ve mostly used Starline LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor. Love the brass BUT notice loose primer pockets after 6 reloads. That was a bit disappointing. Not running particularly hot loads

@EDX2308

Жыл бұрын

Are they large rifle primer pockets? I heard the reason why people go for Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass small primer pocket is so that the primer pocket stays tight longer.

@guynicastri2348

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Large primers

@jakebliedung1471

Жыл бұрын

Large rifle primed on 6.5 does have that issue. I got like 3 out of hornady, switched to starline srp, annealed them and was taking it out to 550 yards on 2" steel no issues.

Love starline

See how many check the boxes important to you and compare with availably and price.

Do you have any suggestions for decapping dies for small primer, small flash hole Lapua 6.5 Creemore brass?

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Redding part number 69100

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Pretty sure I show it in this video kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y4yMkrmdZKawe6g.html

@michaellankford8358

4 ай бұрын

I ordered an extra neck expander/de capping rod for my sizing die. I then chucked it in my drill press and used a strip of emery cloth and sanded it untill I got it down to the correct size

Unfortunately, the biggest factor in brass selection these days is what you can find in stock. That said, Lapua and Peterson have been outstanding for me.

I’d love to see your full method for getting 20 firings out of your brass if you could. Everything you do and don’t do.

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Hi Dylan, I can't remember if I cover the process in the video or not but this is where I tested it: kzread.info/dash/bejne/lI6j0qV7hd3Ypbw.html

@PastaLaVista.

Жыл бұрын

@@BoltActionReloading great info thanks! The one barrier to entry for the average reloader though is the annealing after every firing. This would almost certainly require one of the very expensive machines. I’d be very interested in a test of how infrequently you can get away with annealing and how many firings you can get if you don’t anneal at all but also minimally work the brass as you did in this test. Thanks again

@no-sway3709

Жыл бұрын

​@PastaLaVista. Annealez is cheap and effective. No need for an AMP.

@PastaLaVista.

Жыл бұрын

@@no-sway3709 we have different definitions of cheap lol

Wish I could afford 1000 pcs of starline for each caliber I load... years ago it was all I used... was fantastic brass

Did a similar comparison between Starline and Winchester .38spl brass. Shouldn't have wasted my time. First step was case length, with Starline coming in at plus or minus 1 thou of an inch and the Winchester at 15 thou. Everything just went down hill for the Winchester from there on.

I think some context for those volume numbers would be telling. For the Starline the SD is .2% That is pretty darn amazing. So it is not like the Starline number are BAD in fact I doubt that SD even matters on target. The test isn't useless obviously it can be diagnostic of bad brass. That said Starline did "worse" but I have doubts it did worse in a way that actually matters on the target.

I use starline for my 45 colt and its great. I normally use nosler for my 300wm but might start branching out and try lapua if i need more.

@davidandre886

Жыл бұрын

Lol kick the nosler to the curb... get Lapua

@Lethal_Intent

Жыл бұрын

@@davidandre886 well if it improves my groups from .2 inch at 100 i will if not they will get the boot no point spending more for same or worse performance. But i have to try it to find out first.

@davidandre886

Жыл бұрын

Nosler is expensive... I don’t think anyone has ever preferred nosler to Lapua. Just saying.

@Lethal_Intent

Жыл бұрын

@@davidandre886 its cheaper here and i will prefer whatever performs best. Hell I'll use shitty ppu brass if it gave me the best groups and sd.

@davidandre886

Жыл бұрын

Yeah and if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle. It just ain’t so. Cheaper per firing Is more relevant

if it isn't in Lapua Brass, it ain't in my rifles, PERIOD ! ....... OnWard......

love the math

Was the case volume of fired brass?

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

No both volumes are new brass not fired

What unit of measure is the case volume.

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Grains of water.

I’ll stick with Starline. I’ve not had any primer pocket issues out of my Valkyrie, Grendel, or Blackout brass. Is the case capacity less than others , sure by a bit. But does it really matter unless I feel I absolutely need to have max volume, which I don’t. I don’t shoot any matches nor will I. I still do shoot target out to 300 yards and Starline has never let me down. I cannot, for my use, justify spending the money on Lapua.

@orangerider2827

Жыл бұрын

Wow how many firings are you getting with 224 valkyrie then? I really like the cartridge but the primer pocket problems have scared me off it.

@pwrbomb1970

Жыл бұрын

@@orangerider2827 I have two sets of 25 sitting at firing number 8. I just tossed 25 that had 10 firings on them, and it wasn’t due to primer pockets. Safety dictates to me that after that many firings it’s time to start with new.

@orangerider2827

Жыл бұрын

@@pwrbomb1970 that's great news to me. Do you load them hot or soft?

@pwrbomb1970

Жыл бұрын

@@orangerider2827 I’m never over max. Usually at the high end of any load but never over. I see zero reason to push that envelope.

@orangerider2827

Жыл бұрын

@@pwrbomb1970 i don't go over max either. My point was if your at the bottom of the load and primer pocket life was good then I would shy away still. Would you like to share the load you use so I can compare it to my book?

Can you do a vid on sellier bellot brass

@BoltActionReloading

11 ай бұрын

I didn't see a place retailing just the brass. Is it available somewhere that I am missing?

@christerandersen6952

11 ай бұрын

As far as i know they do not sell only brass. But i have a fair amount of s&b brass in 7.5cm after store ammo. And wondering if i can reload those.

I want to know where you’re finding brass that cheap!

I’m a fan of Norma

I paid $134.00 (or $27.00 per hundred) for 500 Starline 5.56mm cases direct from Starline. Lapua .223 Brass runs around $74. per hundred. In AR-15 rifle with a .223 Wylde chamber I can find no accuracy advantage to using Lapua Brass. Longevity seems similar, as the rims get chewed well before the rest of the case at 5.56 pressures. In a precision bolt action I would favor the Lapua over the Starline, as your shooting way less, as well as damaging the cases less.

@joethearcticfox

Жыл бұрын

If I shoot one bolt gun match and one gas gun match per month, even with associated load development and verification, why would the bolt gun brass be shot any less? The type of firearm has nothing to do with how often you shoot an individual piece of brass.

@TreborUSCG

Жыл бұрын

@@joethearcticfox Really?? You can't understand how a gas gun with 30 round magazine might be shot a bit more than a bolt action with a 5 or 10 shot mag?? And I wasn't talking about match shooting, BTW....I can't see anybody doing mag dumps with a bolt action, can you??

@joethearcticfox

Жыл бұрын

@@TreborUSCG a mag dump fires each case in a 30 round magazine exactly one time. 10 mag dumps on a wild and crazy range trip fires all 300 cases... exactly one time each. I shoot PRS with a bolt action gun, and I have multiple ARs in 3 different calibers. Not one of my semi autos comes close to the annual round count of my bolt action competition gun. The type of gun you're shooting has nothing to do with how many times an individual piece of brass gets fired.

@joethearcticfox

Жыл бұрын

But I'm probably focusing too much on you saying "as your shooting way less". Everything else you said makes perfect sense and I'm probably an anomaly because I shoot quite a lot through my bolt action guns. Forgive me if I have come across as a jerk. I'm sure we would have a great time if we went to the range together.

@TreborUSCG

Жыл бұрын

@@joethearcticfox I shot PRS long before it became PRS, My primary rounds were .308 win and 7mm-08. I've also used a .260 Rem and 6.5x47 Lapua. I'm now 71 years old, and can't walk very far to do PRS. But I do still enjoy my AR-15. and I have several 1,000 rounds loaded and ready to go. Mostly Starline and LC brass w/68 grain Hornady's or 77 grain Nosler CC.'s.

But did you shoot it.

With Finland getting all on board with nato and everything, they have stopped exporting so they can get ready for world war 3, so for me it was an easy decision to buy America made starline, even though they said they where on back order they shipped it out in like 3 days...@ $.40 a pc.

Test Peterson brass

Starline brass has had loose primer pockets in 2 to 4 reloads in multiple calibers for me. Even norma brass has been beter than starline for me.

Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays.

@chuckfinley3152

Жыл бұрын

“Oh, And Remember, Next Friday Is Hawaiian Shirt Day!"

Office Space! Ha!

What if we’re still doin’ this when we’re 50?

👍👍👍👍👍👀😎

If cost is your most important factor for brass and you shoot anything other than gas guns and pistols you need to re-evaluate life.

Need an accuracy test to prove anything. Need a benchrest quality rifle for a consistent test

Tell me about standard deviation and extreme spread of a load development not water.. that’s what counts when it comes to brass…. Combustion!

My experience with Lapua brass has not been good while mine with starline has been near perfect. I cannot justify the price of Lapua as a result.

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

If your happy with the results, I don't blame you for sticking with it. I wonder they will compare for number of reloads.

That's all fine and dandy but you can't get Starline brass now anyhow

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Hi John, you can backorder it on their website (5.56 is backorderable as I type this) I have always heard where most folks get their shipments within a week or 2.

@johngarrett6256

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the information

The biggest difference between starline and lapua, is, youre going to wait SEVERAL YEARS for brass you order. No hustle what so ever. The lethargy could not be any worse. All starline cares about is 5.56 and 9mm. Anything else, and the puplic can go fondle its self.

@davidsingleton1743

Жыл бұрын

Not true. I back-ordered .32 Winchester Special and .32-20 cases earlier this year and both orders arrived in about 10 days. Back-ordered 30-06 took a week. .38-55 took right at 2 weeks. Zero problems with lengthy delays in my experience over the past few years.

@blueduck9409

Жыл бұрын

@@davidsingleton1743 it is true. I orderd brass and was told it can take up to 3 years. That was after waiting 9 months. I appreciate your expert experience with my personal order from starline tho.

…all the “consistencies” are irrelevant as they are trumped by the Mother of all Adverbs : Availability

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Lapua is available from several places right now and a lot of starlines are able to be backordered (which seems to mean ship in a week or 2)

Lapua for bench rest. Starline for the weekend plinking, 3gun, and even hunting. But, really, reloading 223Rem? Jesus, I’ve given up on that a long time ago. Not worth the trouble of case prep. Just like the 762x39, there’s just calibers that one should only load if there’s no other option.

That shirt lol, seriously, when it comes to 223/556, just use lake city

@BoltActionReloading

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Chuck! I don't disagree. Lake city brass is impressively consistent for what I have measured. A while back I remember seeing where you could buy it new. Wish I would have grabbed some then just to check it out.

@chuckfinley3152

Жыл бұрын

I mean, yes lapua is the best, im just saying, If you're a brass goblin like me, you have piles of free LC, the quality vs cost ratio is undeniable