The thing with china, you get wat you pay for. If you pay 200 dollars you get 200 dollars worth of vise. If you pay 1000 dollars you get a 1000 dollar worth of vise. As I see it: China offers the world the option to go for cheap or expensive, in most other countries you only get the expensive option.

@JonGretarB

6 жыл бұрын

Stef's Engineering true. It’s just a matter of specs. Building something to high specs costs money. I have bought cheap stuff from the USA that is utter crap too.

@shiling9885

6 жыл бұрын

中国人或企业可以做出各方面最好的产品同时也可以做出世界上最差的产品，但中国市场由计划经济转为市场经济后，各种经营在市场环境下拼搏的是价格而不是1980年代的质量了。但中国人勤奋聪明对世界科技及产品先进性可靠性的思想一直没有丢下。但价格很高买的人很少，为了追求利益（$_$）和生存只能制造低端货去赢得市场而使企业存活，如果中国制度改变人民有生活保障，收入平均。中国人（智慧与勤奋）+中国国力+中国资源将会远超于日本制造。可惜中国制度不会改变，因为人种思维方式就是贪财。钱才是信仰，钱趋势人的道德变得无比邪恶。

@StefsEngineering

6 жыл бұрын

I did need google translate to understand that comment, but I totally agree! I hope you don't mind but I copied the translation for us non chinese viewers: Google Translation of Shi Ling's post "Chinese people or enterprises can make all aspects of the best products can also make the world's worst products, but the Chinese market from a planned economy to a market economy, a variety of business in the market environment is the price of hard The quality of the 1980s. But the Chinese people diligent and clever on the world of science and technology and product reliability of the idea of thinking has not been left. But the price is very high to buy very few people, in order to pursue the interests ($ _ $) and survival can only create low-end goods to win the market and make the enterprise survive, if the Chinese system to change people's living security, income average. Chinese people (wisdom and diligence) + China's national strength + Chinese resources will be far more than Japan's manufacturing. Unfortunately, the Chinese system will not change, because the way of thinking is greedy money. "

@shiling9885

6 жыл бұрын

Stef's Engineering 谷歌翻译会有错误,可能意思都错误。

@StefsEngineering

6 жыл бұрын

Allright, do you want me to remove the translation?

Not disliking, but we are comparing a $660 vise with a $200 one. $400 gets you a whole lot of finish difference across a large quantity of these vises. Especially when considering the motto of China is: "You pay for what you get."

@TurkishLoserInc

6 жыл бұрын

I mean the title of the video is fairly telling: "China Vs USA Machinist Vise". This isn't simply comparing two vices and which is the better bang for your buck, but a comparison between a Chinese vice(and equating import vice with subpar quality), and an American vice. Stef's Engineering's comment underneath mine is hitting the exact same mark.

@HoutmeyersP

6 жыл бұрын

Defnotdemas .I am sure you house is filled with product parts made by child or slave labour....you did not mind buying those , so do not start now bro.

@MAGAMAN

6 жыл бұрын

With China, you usually get a lot less that you are paying for.

@ohammouda

5 жыл бұрын

The video is very biased and unfair.

@z50com

5 жыл бұрын

@@ohammouda It's very bias! Quality vs sub par Quality One vise will last 100 years in a machine shop, the other 10 years. . .

When I was testing tools for an independent testing company, some cheap tools would come in for testing chrome plated. The reason was to cheat the hardness test. The steel used had to meet a minimum hardness standard and so the hardness test had to be done on the finished product but you can't do a proper Rockwell C on the finished product (like a box wrench) because there isn't enough sidewall support for an accurate reading. This meant doing a Rockwell T test which uses a much lighter weight. For ordinary tools this would give an pretty accurate reading. For chrome plated ones, however, the test would give a false high because the weight couldn't punch through the thin chrome layer, chrome being so much harder than steel. By doing this, the manufacturer would pass the hardness test while using lower grade steel. To this day, when I see chrome on a tool, I think junk.

Hey! I'm machinist by trade, I work in a really old shop and with that of course everything from tools to machinery is pretty old. We make big stuff like axels up to about 4-5 meters, mill gears in the 1 m diameter range and so on, and what I want to say is that we make that stuff so precise in a more or less all vintage tool environment and what it all boils down to in the end is your speeds and feeds, and your rigging! You can buy your fancy 1000 dollar vises but I'd say that 50 buck 50 year old vise will do just fine. It does for me 8 hours a day five days a week all year round!

@catherineharris4746

2 жыл бұрын

FACTS!👍👍👍

@angrydragonslayer

2 жыл бұрын

my €4600 vises does me well 24 hours a day seven days a week. i'm an automation specialist so i only touch the machine around 18-22 at night after i get home. i can imagine that an old fully manual shop would not notice the difference given the.... manual nature of the work but when you run 20k parts at 10-50 micron tolerances while unattended, the price is easily justified and the quality often required.

@craigsbully

Жыл бұрын

@@angrydragonslayer you are comparing tomatoes to suspension bridges.

Lets compare a Mercedes to a Yugo....Man, I wonder which one will win! The suspense is killing me.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I think this is a fair comparison, because the import is trying to look like and act like the USA made Kurt D 60 vise, with the goal of fooling people into thinking its a good tool. There for, it should be compared to a properly built vise Made in the USA . :-) At no time did the Yugo ever try to look like a Mercedes to fool the public :-) (Sorry for the cut-and-paste reply)

@trucktruckin2291

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, while your argument made sense in the 80's and early 90's when mercedes was built with parts to last for decades. Mercedes of today is worse than Yugo, because Yugo (zastava) ceased production some 15 years ago. Yugo can no longer fool anyone, but Mercedes can. It is still made, sold and is a huge liability if driven after it's warranty expires.

Thanks for the shoutout ;) It would not touch either of those vices for any work that requires any precision :D

@roleic7246

6 жыл бұрын

Stefan, what do you prefer then and why?

@StefanGotteswinter

6 жыл бұрын

Grinding vices with the angled screw. We run them at work on the vmcs, i run them on my cnc at work and I run them on all my personal machines at home. Absolute preference for me :) And why? Most important: Everything on them is hardened, so they dont wear and ding up as easy as one with a cast iron body. They are square all around. No guessing involved, just square. The moveable jaw does not realy lift. It stays where it belongs to. Down :D Easy and fast to clean, just blast out with compressed air.

@roleic7246

6 жыл бұрын

Stefan, I have re-watched your vice deflection video (www_youtube_com/watch?v=ckknLkwx9Sw). The measurement results of the grinding vice speak a clear language especially for lift up and loss of squareness of tall parts. However in horizontal direction the fixed jaw also bends out 0.05mm (black smith precision...?) which is in the same order of magnitude as many others. And I guess the fixed jaw is not ground leaning inwards to compensate some of that. Although there was no horizontal deflection measurement of the movable jaw, it seems that the movable jaw is even better than the fixed jaw. How about a grinding vice without a fixed jaw but with two movable jaws working against each other? ;-)

@roleic7246

6 жыл бұрын

Barry, I can make quite a good vacuum, if that helps precision. But the gravitation free zone interests me... How would you do that? To my limited knowledge it can only be achieved in free fall, parabolic flight, both obviously for very limited time, and in orbit around earth, moon, sun, whatever heavy object. And the internet is full of spam about antigravitation machines. Maybe you can tell us more about it. And by the way these hardened, precision ground, import grinding vices, that Stefan prefers, are even cheaper than conventional vices. A choice worth considering.

@somebodyelse6673

6 жыл бұрын

Do not feed the trolls.

OK- buy 2 Chinese vises for 400.00 put them on a surface grinder and grind base and slides so both are the same height. Now you have 2 vises for 400.00 than can be ganged together on a mill- or spend 2000.00 for 2 of those USA units. The Chinese will do anything that 90% of hobbyists and job shops require, while the USA units will be for the other 10% of extra high precision work.

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

Want to bet money that you wouldn't still need to shim your work, because your mill's table is worn less than evenly? ;^)

@oldschool1993

6 жыл бұрын

Yep same for Chinese or USA vise.

Nice vice Thank you for letting us know that you were given the American vice. This will affect your review and allows us to take that into account. Some youtubers don't reveal their gifts or payments.

@orcasea59

6 жыл бұрын

Actually, *NOT* revealing that products or goods were received for free is a good way to lose one's channel. I believe KZread is very specific about this.

@TechGorilla1987

6 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure this is considered a paid promotion and must be disclosed as such in the US anyway.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment spud pud :-)

@DSCKy

6 жыл бұрын

How does the fact that it was given to him change the numbers on the indicator? Some validity to the cheap vs expensive angle though. I really don't see how anyone can claim he came to the wrong conclusion? The expensive vice is way better.

I want to see Germany vs USA machinist vise.Please do.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I cant afford all those vises. LOL

@denny9931

6 жыл бұрын

The direct comparison might be quite relevant for the hobbyist on where to spend the money and what to expect, but in a company environment it´s more about cycle times, tax write-offs, calibration and liability in case of error. Professionals don´t like to work with entry level tools as well. So without a context given or expectations communicated it would remain a bit of a product presentation. Anyway, i still learned something about workholding options, so thanks for your video.

@yusdiy

6 жыл бұрын

From likes and dislikes,66% will buy Winn brand while 33% will buy Wong brand.

@dbates314

6 жыл бұрын

You can't afford vises? Not a big deal, since you're "reviewing" one given to you.

@sinkosav

5 жыл бұрын

if price is not an issue,like in this comparison...compare German made ROHM wise with USA made one ...You will see that USA vice is junk...same like Chinese one is compared to USA made one...yeah ROHM also cost 3 and half time more then US one

why not compare apples to oranges, you actually did the china vice a service, reasonable accuracy for less than a 1/3 of the price

very nice video, all those little things is what makes a quality product

Something else I liked about the Winn vice. The anchoring holes are slotted for quick change out. Don't have to unscrew the nut completely to remov the vice from the machine.

That Winn seems like a nice vice. Thanks Dale

Hello, After watching your video I checked my own 5 inch jaw Chinese vice and sure enough it had all the faults revealed in your testing. I had another Chinese vice that had been sitting in my workshop for months, acquired from a friend who had bought it to go on his drill press, it was however too heavy and he asked if I would swop a lighter K type I owned for years for it, I did so as a favour. The only superficial difference between the Chinese products was the colour, the new one blue instead of grey. The fixed jaw was perfectly perpendicular to the bed rails, as was the moving jaw. With this brightening my day I started the process shown by you in the video and the blue vice passed on all counts. The ground surfaces were superb for flatness and the base was parallel to the rails. Unfortunately I had thrown the box away and there are no markings on the vice, the test booklet has the name Accu-lock and was filled in with very close tolerances that proved correct. I know that, " ...one swallow doth not a summer make...", but you can be lucky.

There may be a few type-o's in the description. I sure wish Enco was still around. Nice video.

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

They were part of MSC for quite some time... unfortunately, the new MSC websites are not as useful in selecting your options when buying - or not - merchandise...

@kentvandervelden

6 жыл бұрын

Certainly true about MSC. As a hobbyist, I primarily miss the focused inventory and frequent savings Enco offered. MSC is obviously geared more at the industrial customer, but they also have teasing marketing, "Save up to X%!" which seemingly never seems to apply to anything I need. :)

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks For letting me know about the type o's :-)

nice advertisement you made there

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks :-)

@ricbarker4829

3 жыл бұрын

@@BuildSomthingCool It wasn't a compliment....

I personally love my Shars 440V. Bed height only varies by .0002" over 6" and I've measured only a few tenths lift. You get a lot of vise these days for $300.

3½ times more expensive vice comparison?

@artgoat

6 жыл бұрын

Yep. Might be more fair to do the comparison between the $660 Winn vise and a $500 Te-Co vise, or a $600 Palmgren (both from Taiwan), if you're going to make a big deal about country of origin.

@octapc

6 жыл бұрын

Rediculous comparison. Smells of advertising

@393strokedcoupe

6 жыл бұрын

Nicholas Heidl I thought I smelled something. My two year old grandson is potty trained, but can have an accident every now and then! 😉

@kentvandervelden

6 жыл бұрын

It's got to be hard to make an unbiased review when you're contacted by a real person vs. having bought a similar item from online no-contact-with-humans store. I've been struggling with this after receiving a EVO saw to review and have been struggling how to do this without bashing the DeWalt that I like and purchased. Best I've come up with is to never make comparisons when one of the items was donated, etc., especially if a statement could be considered opinion.

@pierresgarage2687

6 жыл бұрын

And should have been clamped to the mill table, and, what is to be expected from a much lower price and liter weight tool... ;)

He is very careful not to mention the Price of the Winn Vice $660.

@javierRC82857

6 жыл бұрын

Ray Watson The title of the video is misleading the content of the video. If you say USA vs China product, you must compare two products of the same price. This video is about usd 200 vs USD 600 vise.

Cheers Dale! incidentally, what did you use for the backdrop? it looks cool. thanks for posting.

About the curtain, I do think people like the shop background, I know I love the shop background. It is nice to be able to look at your shop while you are explaining the topic.

Unfortunately this has become a very biased video. I urge you to place a "contains paid promotion" notification in the video.

@Mr_Smith_369

6 жыл бұрын

kinda obvious what company he works for

@G53X0Y0Z0

6 жыл бұрын

I don't work for any vise company or get any free milling vises. The Chinese vises I have owned, seen, and used are crude and inferior in every way but possibly cost (that goes for most Chinese tools, by the way). The metal is inferior, the workmanship is inferior, the durability is inferior, the consistency is inferior, and trying to use them for precise or production machining is an exercise in frustration. You lose more than you can possibly save. They will serve the only most basic machining needs, and that's all. It's like buying buckets that have holes in the bottom, they don't works as good as buckets with no holes. So I would say his video was very accurate.

@ohammouda

5 жыл бұрын

I agree. Extremely biased.

@ohammouda

5 жыл бұрын

@@G53X0Y0Z0 There are chinese companies that make expensive high end vises even better than the american ones. It's unfair to campare two products in a totally different price range.

@G53X0Y0Z0

5 жыл бұрын

@@ohammouda , I always hear about all these supposedly good Chinese tools. To me they are like Bigfoot, I have never seen them and have no idea where to find them.

Nice job on your first infomercial

I am not very happy with your missing transparency and fairness of comparison. About your arrangement with Winn you only say they asked you to "send one". Do you get to keep the Winn vise? Did Winn also pay for the Chinese vise and do you get to keep it? Do you get additional compensation on top of keeping the vises? Why do you mention only the price of the import vise but nowhere the price of the Winn model. I could extend this list. Comparisons are ok because they are buying guides. It is also ok if you get payed to do it. But it would be nice if you would be open about your arrangements. That would make it easier for the viewers to assess your level of independence and therefore your credibility. Trying to appear more independent than you really are makes many viewers unhappy because they feel manipulated.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Great question. I was going to answer those question in the video when I do a detailed review of the vice.

@roleic7246

6 жыл бұрын

I am looking forward to seeing your detailed review.

@cmdrsocks

6 жыл бұрын

My issue with the video is a bit different, so what if he got the Winn for free? No, my problem is that he was far too polite about the import vise, .004" movement - straight in the scrap bin with it! No need to be "fair" in these tests, junk is junk at any price. The moment anything tests as junk, call it out so the rest of us can avoid it like the plague.

@roleic7246

6 жыл бұрын

Is your statement purely driven by technical consideration or is trade policy your driver?

@cmdrsocks

6 жыл бұрын

What drives my comment is the simple observation that cheap but poor quality goods destroy production of high quality goods. Look at how many European and US tool companies now sell low quality imports using their brand history of quality to continue to charge a premium price for garbage. Now everyone cites the iPhone as an example of how China can produce high quality, so why is there so much crap coming from there? The combination of western corporate greed and short-termism with Chinese amorality (we don't care so long as you are paying attitude) is not conducive to the consumer getting a great deal. The iPhone is also a perfect example of corporate greed, by sealing the case and preventing the user from replacing the battery and by having non-expandable storage, the iPhone has a fixed life expectancy based on how long it takes for the lithium battery to degrade and the memory to become clogged up, forcing the purchase of a new phone - about 2 to 3 years. I have a box of chisels in my shed that are at least 50 years old, all UK and USA made and made to last a lifetime, I also have a set of modern plastic handled chisels from a big brand that have already begun to break after a few uses. The cheap, throwaway mentality and built in obsolescence is bad for quality of manufactured goods, bad for the consumer and bad for the environment. So the goods are cheap, but are they really cheap if you have to replace them every year or two? Compare this to vintage made in USA or England tools from e.g. Stanley, which if cared for will last for centuries. To answer your question, both technical considerations of quality and trade policy considerations drive my thinking.

Hi Dale. Another great video. I have an import vice and I was noticing a little movement on the rear jaw when torquing down. I am gonna try and measure the slop and see if it acceptable. How can you tighten it down. Thanks. Bill from Seattle.

Thanks mate

Well done... Thank you

oranges vs apples not fair you get what you pay for sometimes

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I think this is a fair comparison, because the import is trying to look like and act like the USA made Kurt D 60 vise, with the goal of fooling people into thinking its a good tool. There for, it should be compared to a properly built vise Made in the USA . :-) (Sorry for the cut-and-paste reply)

Wow that Winn vice is brilliant. Really when you look at the design,construction.and materials then take into consideration the skills needed to manufacture them and the pay rates of the workers to make them and resale value if I had the money I'd go for the Winn. If I was on a budget I'd look for a good used British, German or Winn and leave the Chinese one on the shelf.

I think the comparison product should be compared with the same price product. It is fair to compare a $ 1,000 product to a $ 1,000 product.

Maybe for your next comparison you could compare a Bridgeport mill vs Harbor Freight mini mill. It would be as valid as this one is.

@beccabeth2

6 жыл бұрын

Wayne Crews that's funny but true be about the same as he did

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I think this is a fair comparison, because the import is trying to look like and act like the USA made Kurt D 60 vise, with the goal of fooling people into thinking its a good tool. There for, it should be compared to a properly built vise Made in the USA . :-) (Sorry for the cut-and-paste reply)

@patfithian7985

6 жыл бұрын

If the intent was to show that the Chinese made Kurt knockoff was not as good as the USA made tool, perhaps it would have been better (or perhaps a follow up video is in order) to have compared the Enco vise to the Kurt vice it is designed to copy. That would be something I would like to see....USA original vs. Chinese copy.

@Crewsy

6 жыл бұрын

Build Something Cool You may be right but you didn’t compare it to a Kurt D 60 vice and actually compared it to a custom made vice that we were never told the value of and if not given to you for free whether temporarily or not would never have seen the light of day in your shop. As I said in my other comment. This wasn’t an apples to apples comparison and your viewers are smart enough to know it was a BS comparison especially since the import vice was as you stated $200 and a Kurt D60 is still selling for $600 to $800 for a used one on eBay.

@Crewsy

5 жыл бұрын

540 MUDSTAIN No. The point was Dale compared a $200 imported vice to his custom made vice and not the one he says he compared it to. You can’t say a Hyundai is not as good as a VW when you only have BMW to compare it to. I have no doubts that the Kurt is better but he didn’t have a Kurt to compare it to.

Greatly Fascinating Magnificent Video

Dale very informative video.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Robert

Also, you put the link to Winn, and where is the link to the Emco? This is pure endorsement disguised as a "comparison". BS

Always nice to see what looks to be fine grade chinesium compared to the real stuff. I have one of these vices that I use occasionally. It rests on my harbor freight drill press and its used mostly for wood. Works fantastic 😅

Hey Dale! Thumbs up on the video. I'm wondering if you can recommend me with a good brand of 10th's indicator? I'm trying to balance between quality and price. Most bang for my buck type thing.

Great video! One thing, did you correct the high spot on the USA vice that you found before you checked the bed? Maybe it would have scored even better!

@catherineharris4746

2 жыл бұрын

😂👍

@catherineharris4746

2 жыл бұрын

That would've made it too obvious that this is a paid comercial😂😂

Could you do one on comparator stands? I see you have a few and boy those things range in price. I’d love to see what the differences are.

Timely video, I'm actually shopping for a 6" vise just like this. But for now, I'm only mounting it to my drill press. Maybe I don't need the precision. When I get a CNC Mill, I'll think for sure I'll pay the extra. The amount of flex was eye opening for sure. I can see that being a real problem.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I would buy it for my drill press.

@EcoMouseChannel

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I am re-thinking that just based on the shear size of this thing. It's one thing to see them on eBay listing, but another to see them being moved around on the table here. What I might end up getting is just a "Drill Press Vise" and after a lot of looking, even though it's twice as expensive, I'm looking at the Yost brand. It's made in USA, as the highest cast iron tensile strength of any in the class. Plus, it's still 6" jaw, but is actually small enough to keep on your drill press table and be able to move it around. www.ebay.com/itm/Yost-Model-6D-Yost-Heavy-Duty-Drill-Press-Vise/332160728134?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 I recently got an 8" Yost Vise, and it's HUGE!! But I'm glad I got it over another cheapy import. (Since I recently had one fail on me unexpectedly)

I kind of understand where you go with this (spend wisely) but it would be interesting can a 200.00 Chinese vise be tuned to perform like an expensive vise? Some have more time than money.

@TurkishLoserInc

6 жыл бұрын

If you would like to see stuff along this line, Stefan Gotteswinter has a video of a vertex rotary table rebuild. Chinese steel(in the event that there are no occlusions) is a good way of a cheap functional product, that you can later on improve to the best of your capabilities. There is no reason why you can't add the same quick swap jaws by milling into this vice, or modifying the screw locations, or by scraping in the bottom and top surfaces.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I Think you could improve it some what, but it still dosen't have the same quality of steel. I think it would be easier and faster to work overtime at work and use that money and get a good one.

You're comparing expensive to cheap.. or better: overpriced to cheap.

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

And even then it was quite the stretch to say that the differences could really make a difference in the quality of the work that will be done with these vises. Most of the "deficiencies" in the discount vise would vanish when you setup a workpiece and dial it in. Some of the issues don't matter at all - like whether or not the recessed areas under the base of the vise ever get machined. If the smoothness of the surface finish on the bottom face matters, or the geometry of the keyways is suspect, it is a relatively minor thing to mill them to a better condition.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

No! I'm comparing a cheap knockoff to a quality tool to help my viewers understand you get what you pay for. :-)

@bobbyg9295

6 жыл бұрын

Dale I think you are missing a big point, you are comparing an inexpensive modified copy of a Kurt vice to a EXPENSIVE MODIFIED COPY OF A KURT VISE

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I think its a fair comparison because the cheap vise is trying to look like, and try to convince buyers that its as good as a Kurt or a Winn. I have just shown that is not. Why is this wrong? Its enco you should be mad at, not me.

@bobbyg9295

6 жыл бұрын

I agree the "cheap" vise looks like the kurt vise, no where do I see claims that it is as good as a kurt vise. The "cheap" vise is less than 1/3 the cost of a kurt, and will do 99 % of the tasks of a home shop machinist, to which I perceive your channel caters to. Most old machines and imported new machines will have the same or more out of tolerance as the "Cheap" vise. The "cheap" vise and the Winn vise have taken kurt vise and have copied curtain elements of it. Therefor a better comparison would be To compare the Winn to the kurt. I do admit the the Winn vise does look very nice.

Love this channel I want to send you one of my wallets to review I think you would like them however something that does need to be mentioned is that you must account for when you clamp the vise in the machine when you put force into the vise thru bolting it to your mill table you cause the vise bed to warp when you measure the warp in a unloaded state you are getting a different perception of what will actually happen. however personally I only have Kurt vises in my shop period and I would definitely get a win vise to join my gang of vises....

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Great comment. :-)

I've never taken a hammer to my vise handle. That's what pipes are for. (if I WERE to use a hammer, it would be a plastic dead-blow) And frankly, even hand pressure is enough to destroy schedule 40 pipe. My vise handle being metric is handy, because it's 19mm, which is almost exactly the same as 3/4", which fits the R8 drawbar screw on my mill perfectly, so I never have to go hunting for wrenches. Maybe the newer Chinese/Taiwanese vise handles are garbage, but mine is over 30 years old (it's a Kurt knock-off), and still fits very snugly.

@merlinmagnus873

6 жыл бұрын

My bridgeport vise handle is square drive so it's only good for the vise though I also use a 19mm for my drawbar since it's 2 thousands smaller than 3/4". Makes for a better fit.

You can not expect a non American tool to be made to fit inches. That goes for the handle, the jaws and the bed height. I am not a machinist but I am guessing there is some semi standard bed height and jaw size that fit a whole unit measured in metric.

@jusb1066

6 жыл бұрын

yep the developed world is metric, metric vices have 150mm jaws which is only approx 6 inches, and the general class size, but 2.4mm difference means things wont interchange and thread sizes, usa is living in the past and wonders why it cant export anything

I like your video. A lot of people says you are comparing a very different vises... and you are. But the vises looks very similar at first glance. When you see them in the shop you think they are similar.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment Carlos. That is what im trying to say here in this video

I did find this interesting, but would love to see a comparison of several US made milling vises. Kurt, Orange, Glacern, Yost, Suburban, others. I am not sure which are best. Best features. Best bang for the buck, etc.

hehe. I actually didn't know mill vises came with handles until I started shopping for one. The guys in the tool room use wrenches on the vise screws

If you are a hobby machinist or a pro on a budget, don't forget you can rebuild used Kurt vises! They are designed for it and it's easy to do. Their website has full parts listings. Most Kurts just need cleanup, inspection and minor bits. I scored four Kurts and two "good older Taiwan clones" for fifty bucks each at an estate sale. They were worth the cleanup and a bit of time on a surface grinder. (Mark your ground vises to ensure matching height if you use pairs, and identify them so you don't forget!) The Practical Machinist website has a few threads on the subject.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Great comment.:-)

I'm not a machinest but as a professional cabinet maker and woodworker i do recognize the important of quality and consistency in the machinery I depend on for my living. The gulf between the two manufacturers is similarly reflected in cut rate Chinese vs professional Japanese, American or European woodworking equipment,,, but there will always be a suckers market for the cheap stuff,,,

I would really like to see some measurements of the knock off bolted down to the mill. I am really disappointed about the jaws not being a standard size.

Great video! So glad you mentioned tony and Stephen , especially Stephen , he should have at least 500thousand subs.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I agree Scott

Once the price of the Winn vice wasn't mentioned it is clearly apparent this video is paid advertising. Praise I AM, Michael Idarecis

As a beginner that Chinese vice for 200 is a fantastic option to get started. But i dont understand why you didn't state the price of the Winn Vice? i assume from reading the comments that it is exceptionally more expensive. so that therefore negates this comparison. id like to see a brand new $200 USA vice V a $200 Chinese or Taiwanese vice you'd soon see a difference. or even a $1000 V difference.

@jusb1066

6 жыл бұрын

he got it for free, didnt pay the sticker price, there is no 200$ usa vice...thats the joke

@ke6bnl

6 жыл бұрын

paid $500 for my Bridgeport Mill not going to spend more then that for a vice. I live by garage sales and swap meets, or I would not have a machine shop.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Ed. I buy most of my stuff on Craigs list. My mill cost $400, and with a good vice on it, it works like a $2000 mill :-) keep hunting for those good deals, its a lot of fun.

The Chinese are amazing builders, they are capable of producing anything if your prepared to pay for it. Unfortunately people want it all cheap.

@seanhazelwood3311

5 жыл бұрын

Then why isn't their good stuff on the market anywhere?

What is that dial indicator stand he used?

Would have loved to see this comparison done between Kurt, GMT and Winn. Or done between cheap vises. Telling us we get a better vise for 3x as much $ is not teaching us much, and I know you want your content to be informative.

I have a very tired ENCO vise just like that. Its pretty worn out, one side is .0025" higher than the other.

No idea what these are used for or what you're doing, but for some reason I enjoyed watching.

@BuildSomthingCool

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment, it made me smile

Haven't been to your channels in a while. Really like the new backdrop and lighting. I can tell you put in a lot of care to get that right, looks very professional.

Would be nice to see a comparison with an america Kurt vise as they patented the design in 1968.

I was taught on a Kurt and have a Kurt. Thanks for the info. Did you mean 1mil out on the Winn base or 10mil? I have a hard time thinking it was 10 mil out that would have been 1 full dial indicator turn on a .0001 guage right?

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

He was saying 0.1 mil, or a 10,000th of an inch... pretty much too finely finished in a direction which is not material to most setups - only really of issue if you are running an indicator against it as a reference. For setups, the 2.5 mils per 6" on the import or roughle 0.03% variance, is well within tolerances for producing quality work.

@allbeit582

4 жыл бұрын

I believe he said 10 thousandths of an inch, or 0.254 of a millimetre.

Any machinist worth his salt could make a replacement handle, cheap. METRIC or not. The finish on the depressed areas beneath the vise doesn't matter! The mounting surface of any machine vise should be stoned lightly before you mount it to the table. You ignored the most important issues... Is the surface the jaws slide over on the same plane as the mounting surface? Are the jaws flat, parallel, and VERTICAL relative to the mounting surface? Are the jaws properly hardened? Can you buy replacements? (Not every shop has heat treating facilities.)

eh, if the vice has a hexagon for the screw that is measured in inches, then its much more likely to be a USA vice then a China vice... china works in Metric. unlike the USA and 1 other very small country.

@DataStorm1

6 жыл бұрын

its a promotion video... but he didn't state that anywhere (by law required to have that in the start of the video, NOT in some subnotes far away) also, price point is way different probably.... also, another bullshit argument, having the screw above the plane doesn't mean its going to bow, for you have your clamps in the middle to keep it down.....

@DataStorm1

6 жыл бұрын

Rewatched the part of the video regarding the handles... and he brings the china one's being "metric" as a downside... pretty stupid.

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

Yep. A 19mm socket will fit loosely on a 3/4" hex, but a tight spec. 3/4" socket is a press-fit on a 19mm hex. And, since 20mm is the standard size for metric hex stock, it could be worse...

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

datastorm, Im sorry you didn't understand the down side to the handle being metric. Its not that it is metric, its that it doesn't meet the normal standers in most American shops. I have 4 different types of handles in my shop. If I owned that vise I would have to buy 4 more, or modify the nut on the Enco.

@DataStorm1

6 жыл бұрын

I've been a machinist for a number of years here in the Netherlands (EU). Everything Imperial was kept separated in one (small) cabinet. As I said, only the USA is keeping the outdated Imperial on. That other small country that has Imperial is changing to Metric as well. Did you know that USA's Imperial is just one of the English flavours of the measuring system? Every province had their own measuring for a very long time before Metric came around. They adjusted it often multiple times a year to have some off-set vs neightbouring provinces/townstates to make them more profitable, and changed again for the country's tax to be lower. Only work imperial when absolutely needed, and main Metric. For Imperial should not stay in use, it has costed a lot of lives and billions of dollars already with mistakes made with conversing it. Btw, Imperial measurements are nowadays defined by Metric measurements.

Id be more interested in seeing a comparison of Chinese vs Taiwan, there are a lot of low end machines made in both countries, the ones from Taiwan not as cheap. I have Chinese made lathe and mill here in Australia, the machinery sellers has a range of Chinese machines and Taiwanese machines and higher end stuff as well. i was looking at upgrading machines and I got a good run out of the Chinese ones but the Taiwanese ones they have are not all that much more expensive but feel have a better finish and feel. Are they better I don't know, not done any machining on them.

@Gottenhimfella

6 жыл бұрын

A good Taiwanese machine tool is almost up to Japan quality, which is saying something.

And now... let's compare a Porsche 911 to a Mustang

@joea7185

6 жыл бұрын

Bart De Bruyne . That is not a fair comparison. Both Porches and mustangs both go stop and have tires that are aligned properly. They essentially do exactly the same thing with a very similar level or quantifiable factors. If the doors didn't close the wheels were cockeyed and brakes were sponges you would have point. Bottom line the Chinese stuff is just trash and that's why it's a 1/3rd the price.

@shadewoodhull2489

6 жыл бұрын

more like comparing an f150 to a yugo. no comparison in quality and durability.

@jusb1066

6 жыл бұрын

both vices hold metal to a table... you can generalise anything if you want to, lets compare a PInto to a volvo, then see who wins or catches fire first, but one is made in the USA so must be better right?

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I like your comment :-)

@bart300166

6 жыл бұрын

Build Something Cool thank you Dale. I like your channel and the way you handle criticism. I wasn't too sure about this video. The tests done made sense and it's clear which one is the better vice, but it's not about USA against China, it's about low cost against a quality tool, right? "Made in the USA" is by no means a guarantee for quality, and it' s certainly not perceived like that outside the USA where it actually might have a negative connotation! Closing your borders is a recipe for economical disaster as it deprives you from making a deliberate choice and it puts a hold to quality and productivity improvements. Anyhow, I will continue to watch every episode from Metal Tips.... sorry from Build something cool. Have a good one!

Do you think an old Bridgeport vise is good?

@BuildSomthingCool

3 жыл бұрын

If it's what you have to use it. Tested and find out where it's weak points are and avoid the situation as much as possible :-)

I'm thinking about a precision Matthews medium grade 120 dollar 4" vise for my mill I haven't bought yet . Thoughts. To buy or not to buy ?????

@sinkosav

5 жыл бұрын

nooooo,buy other import wise,German Rohm,better then Kurt,but cost around 2500 bucks...LOL

It would be so much useful to compare the Winn with a similar category vise, like a Shars or a Vertex (like Tony did). If you pick the contender in the trash can, what you expect the outcome to be? Nonsense...

Loved the comparison. Just for fun, that is (phonetically) STEF' AHN GOAT' ES VIN TER (or VIN TAHr). And he is amazing!

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I will do better next time I try to pronounce his name, Thanks for your comment :-)

Just to add a little more trivia. Down here in the Philippines. After the war only U.S. made products are patronized because they are the best at that time. Everything Japanese made are considered junk. Then things changed. Early Taiwan made products were considered junk. Then things changed again. Early Korean were considered junk. I won't say anymore about Chinese products. Almost every corner in our cities have a store that sells purely Chinese made products. And we are happy because at last we have other options.

Never used a machine vise, but thanks for being objective.

I don't mind watching commercials, but when they are placed in the middle of the video, that prevents me from pre-buffering the video. I have a slow connection and always pre-buffer videos so I can watch them without buffering interruptions.

check the winn and orange vise

Infomercial for Winn vises

Dale , Some times you win and some time you lose. I still miss your regular videos A F Pienaar Johannesburg

hi i have mini mill need a 3 inch vise cant find one that does not lift the work up when tightened anyone no a great 3 inch vise

I am so confused.... Name change?

holy smokes that was hard to watch... most cringe worthy when you were showing the Chinese vise jaw lift but failed to mention the set screw in the jaw that will stiffen that up so it doesn't lift like that.And you said it yourself that there were some burs on the bottom of the vise so why not stone them off before checking flatness like any good machinist would do? pretty biased it looks like

As a former toolmaker I wouldn't use one of these both. I've worked a lot with the full hardened grinding vises on a surface grinder. They're really accurate buth aI don't prefer them on a milling machine ( I don't trust the clamping force of it to withstand the milling force). The best vise I ever worked with is the type 'Gripos' from Gressel or 'NC compact spanner' Rhöm. Really accurate on the long term and with enough clamping force for heavy CNC roughing

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment Patrick

Hey! You just made a studio (that's how studios are made in the first place.... Quick back-drop setup, good lights, "action") A studio only has to be as little/big as what the camera can see or need to be seen on film/video (the same as what it takes to make a piece/tool with machining etc) ;)

@incubatork

6 жыл бұрын

GHISLAIN LETOURNEAU he had to do that as he was in Winns back closet lol

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

Technically, it's a set... his set is in his studio... ;^)

If you have consistent movement you can adjust for accuracy surly not. So it's 4 thou out, all the time,, could you not put a 4 thou shim to make up for this. I know it's not ideal for a master machinist but was just thinking if someone hasn't the cash, can't remember the price difference. But this did make me think of the guy zeroing his scope who got one bullet center mass and then the rest spread in a 2 inch group around it, then you had the other guy who's bullets all ended up 4 inches out but with a spread of a 1/4 of an inch. Food for thought maybe. Great video

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

Most master machinists will still be using shims, parallels, and a bump hammer to dial in their work. No workholding device is ever perfect, so as long as the discrepancies are small enough to be easy to work with, who cares?

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Iell3 , Great question. Yes you could use shims, but do you want to? They take a lot of time to work with and you will need to test your vise for different sizes parts to in sure consistency. thanks for your quetion :-)

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

Well, in most cases, some decent parallels and a tiny bit of tapping with a soft hammer is necessary, no matter what the quality of the vise, if you want / need to be within 0.005" In my experience, the cheaper vise just needs a bit more adjustment than with a pricier vise, which may make no real difference in the amount of time & effort involved in the setup... just require a slightly thicker bit of shim stock or soft copper / aluminum. Your Mileage May Vary...

Yeah, lopsided comparison base.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

No it's not. The Chinese vise is a knock off of Kurt 60 D . They know if they make it look like a USA made tool some people would be fooled, and buy. It's China trying to pull the wool over your eyes, Not me :-)

this is just a "I have to, if I want free shit" review. China is a country of manufacturing like any other, but if you order a vice and you want a $200 one then that's what they make for you. They provide options, plain and simple. Now a review of this Winn vice and a Kurt vice is a review worth the effort. A vw bug and a Bentley are both classed as cars, but you would be stupid to do a side by side test. Also I really wish these guys would stop saying that the company called THEM, we are not stupid, it's insulting.

@jusb1066

6 жыл бұрын

yep, china will happily make a 800 dollar vice too, but they usually dont bother as people are unlikely to worry about a few burrs and 5 minutes stoning the base, which you should do anyway regardless

A review by Stephan on both vises would seem more valid

I would find this kind of comparison more useful if the presenter was comparing two vices of closely matched cost. $200 Vs $1200 (shipped to UK) does not need a detailed comparison!

Don`t get me wrong, I like your channel. But if you are going to give the price to one vise then also do the same to the other vice.

@codprawn

5 жыл бұрын

Price or prize?

did a search for machinist vise on google, and this came up, but as already noted by everyone, there isn't a real comparison here due the cost difference

The ends of jaws are not flush with the body so you can't add a part stop.

The test really should have been done torqued to the mill bench, plus the vices react different when warm or cold, there are quite a few uncountable variations not taken in account.

1000cc mini vs 5000cc supercharged jaguar lets see the comparison.

Can you share info on the precision flat stones?

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Go check out this video by Robin kzread.info/dash/bejne/doqAutWqZ9PPabw.html

@tweedrhino

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, thanks. I've seen Robin's very informative and, frankly, amazing work. I noticed your precision flats were smaller and round and was wondering where you got them and, hoping, they were less than $500.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I made them

My father was working as an engineer for Radio Communications of America when WWII broke out. Westinghouse equipment was exactly copied by the Japanese. But the control knobs worked differently. Say you want to increase volume. You turn the knob counter clock wise instead of CW. Do they read and write from right to left? I hear the Arabs do that. Kindly correct me if I'm wrong please.

I do like your channel in general and find allot of usefull info in your videos. im honestly dissapointed that you made one of these "advertisement in the guise of a review or comparison" videos, in exchange for a vice. I appreceate that you are open about the fact that they gave you the vise, but that dosent negate the fact that the review or comparison is basically useless because of the clear bias. Youve also set it up to make the "sponsered" vice look perticularly good by making a blatant apples to oranges comparison to a vice thats 1/3 the cost. ofcourse the vice that costs 3x more is going to be nicer, why even compare them? Speaking as one of your subscribers thats been with you almost from the begenning and really appreceate what you do and find it helpfull, I dont think this type of content is verry helpfull to us. I definatly understand the temptation, get a really nice vise in exchange for making a positive video about it. If you want to do that its up to you, its your channel, but please be honest in the title and dont call it a comparison or review because its not, its an advertisement plain and simple. There is also the option of accepting these items but being clear to the company that you plan to do an honest review, and then doing your best to present the product without bias. Many people will still not believe the presentation is 100% unbiased, because its almost impossible to get a nice gift and not see it in a more positive light than if you bought it. however, if it was clear you were making an effort to be non biased, I think I would take the "review" more seriously and find it usefull instead of being tricked into watching an advratisement by a misleading title.

Thank for the video. Of course your glasses really need grippy pads

Could you put the Chinese vice on 1 2 3 blocks and Mill the bottom flat to make it better? I do understand that a surface grinder would be best

@BuildSomthingCool

4 жыл бұрын

the really problem it the quality of the casting and the materials they use.

It there a reason to use the high precision vise over a low medium precision? Most if not all the milling jobs are or should be done as a one time clamp method and so the precision is up to the milling machine. As soon as you reclamp you lose a few thous already. Milling operation only take up a few % of the clamping power so even a cheap one the work peice ain't go anywhere.

@duguder

6 жыл бұрын

I bet that if the same milling works done on both vise you won't be able to tell the difference.

I appreciate this video for its general information about vises. However, when items are received from manufacturers for free to review it is, for all practical purposes, a paid review (receiving cash, *goods* or services). Now, that is not to say that this comparison is not factually accurate, but the Internet is full of paid reviews and they are often - as in this case (comparing products with a 330% price difference) far from fair and by their nature almost impossible to be impartial. I think a comparison with a Kurt (or similar) vise would have been far more appropriate. There are many tool reviewers who will make a point of testifying to the independent nature of their reviews by refusing to accept free items from manufacturers and who buy all subject materials with their own money instead, and I will ALWAYS give them far more credibility than paid reviews.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

Interesting comments , Please understand it was important to note that it is the Chinese vice that has copied the Kurt 60 D. in trying to fool you into think it is of the same quality but at a lower price. I'm trying to help my viewers out buy showing them you get what you pay for . :-) Don't you think that is fair? :-)

@orcasea59

6 жыл бұрын

Build Something Cool , that may very well be, but form follows function, as well. In ending I would say this: AvE says, "Keep your d**k in the vise," but he doesn't mean it literally! :) I'm sure, Dale, if you had it to do over it would be quite different. A good learning experience - pick out the splinters, throw on a band aide and let's move on :)

Really interesting video, especially while you were showing the jaw deflection under load but it seems a little unfair. The Winn vise is like a hotrod Kurt and the Enco is a Kurt knockoff, of course the Winn is going to be far superior; I would also expect a Kurt to be superior to the Enco as well. While I get the point, there is also the "get what you pay for" factor and the comparing a $660 vise to a $200 vise isn't fair; seems like comparing a Corvette to a BRZ, both handle the turns but the Corvette wins every time.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

HI DR.rockzo , I think this is a fair comparison, because the import is trying to look like and act like the USA made Kurt D 60 vise, with the goal of fooling people into thinking its a good tool. There for, it should be compared to a properly built vise Made in the USA . :-) (Sorry for the cut-and-paste reply)

23:15 for the good part

@rogerdeane3608

3 жыл бұрын

YOU BET

Comparing metric to imperial and calling out the Chinese vise height being different - that was a crumby move we could equally say that the USA vises in any other country in the world (with the exception of just two) would be at fault - lets see you compare a $200 USA made vise rather than the top of the range you have here. your valid points got lost in the acrimony - shame.

@BuildSomthingCool

6 жыл бұрын

I think its important note all the differences in vises. The height different is key to those people who already owned a Kurt vice. would you agree?

@vizionthing

6 жыл бұрын

Yea very much, still we could buy three of the Chinese vises for the price of one Kurt and avoid the problem altogether.

@chemech

6 жыл бұрын

No, not *key*... Important to note, and account for in your setups, but not a deal breaker... Now, what if you are buying your first vise, and are on a tight budget, and the Craigslist offerings in your neighborhood are tool shaped piles of rust offered for nearly the brand new price? As for your setup, you should be paying attention to what you are doing, and how you use parallels, shims, 1-2-3 blocks, and maybe even machinist jacks. Lots of things that you can do with 1/2"-13 nuts and bolts from your local hardware store as well. So, no, it's far from being a deal breaker. I won't say no if someone were to gift me with a Kurt vise in decent shape, but I'm not at all unhappy with my H&HIP import...