Some of those "i am Mormon, but i struggle with..." We're really sad bc they said they struggled with really normal things like enjoying popular music or experiencing sexual attraction. They felt shame over such normal healthy human behavior

I will now be referring to my lack of local social circle as “daring to stand alone”

With both of you crossing your arms and Tanner stating "we're going to begin..." totally thought that was leading to a prayer

@graceandersen1394

Жыл бұрын

Far too true!

@anaruiz6036

Жыл бұрын

Flashbacks 😂 same

"They're coming for me because my wife is not coming for me!" hahahaha I died! You guys are hilarious

I can’t get over the woman who checked Charlie Puth as Mormon despite having no idea who he is. Like, did she just racially profile a white guy?

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

L I T E R A L L Y

@Paula_Limberg

Жыл бұрын

Yeah! AND a lot of what he writes is very sexual! The part that got me was, “I don’t really know much about him“ 🤦

@sammierose1150

4 ай бұрын

What’s even funnier is I’m pretty sure he’s ethnically Jewish 😅

Such a great point about Mormons being generally anti gov yet requiring state permission to get freaky with eachother.

@PsiPhy

2 ай бұрын

As a child I was always cautioned against social security numbers or state control/help in USA- yet as a Mormon I was given an LD$ number to follow me for life controlling every aspect of my existence now and eternally

So, I'm a gardener (it's a trade in Germany) and a big plant nerd, and not only do metallurgy, geology, archeology, etc., etc., disprove the Book of Mormon, but so does botany, because the plants they listed in the BoM didn't exist on the continent at the time. Which is why apologists have had to grasp at straws and say, "well, clearly Joseph was just using words that he understood but were referring to the ancestral version of that plant as we know it", basically the same argument they use for horses, erm, tapirs.

@eeeeggnog._.

Жыл бұрын

I haven't heard this before, what kinds of plants?

Lol Tanner perfectly summed up the fullness of my experience within the church with his closing quote "I thought we might get more, like, substance."

Btw when it said "dare to be a Mormon" in the audio the person posting it actually put "dare to be a latter day saint" on the screen 😂

Around the 12:30 ish minute mark. The feeling of wasting time is universal. Ten years I spent teaching and my identity now is lost. Anything you pour everything into can explode and leave you confused and heartbroken.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

💗💗💗💗💗

I am an ex-catholic and honestly just watch y'all out of solidarity and plain entertainment. Anyways hearing y'all talk about the lds church being against a lot of science made me very grateful for the fact that at my Catholic high school, we learned about evolution, the bio teacher that taught it was very strong in his belief that science and religion can work together, AND pretty much had a whole theology class that distinguished historical truth, scientific truth, symbolic truth etc. I mean, tbf, it help direct me towards athiesm but I'd have become an athiest eventually either way lol.

@celestewatson8351

Жыл бұрын

JEALOUS!!!!! Not only did my catholic school not teach evolution, but my insane teacher was also on one trying to convince us that mushrooms were plants.

How the heck is tik tok allowed but coffee isn’t

Tanner’s explantation about marriage / the government was perfection ❤

TBM: "I read the entire CES letter and I'm an even stronger member, and I'll never leave" Me: "What the hell is wrong with you?"

@maezen

Жыл бұрын

Right, that's not the flex they think it is by far.

@lilyrosepunkunicorm9871

Жыл бұрын

What’s a CES Letter?

@Smilesremember2Smile

Жыл бұрын

@@lilyrosepunkunicorm9871 It’s the CES Letter.

@PsiPhy

2 ай бұрын

Because the hypnotized Mormon will dissect, twist, re-analyze every aspect of the letter to meet a Mormon agenda according to the next hypnotic suggestion from the Patriarchs.

If you feel like you gotta say your not a cult, your most likely in a cult.

I hated the “I still struggle with…” trend. I love harm reduction, but it’s really painful to see “progressive” Mormons with the exact same vices and beliefs as me, not have to go through the long night of the soul or face the isolation of losing their family’s love or their social support systems.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

For now!

@azlizzie

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps I am reading this wrong. Do you mean you are bothered that others aren't having to feel your suffering? I see that as a win. Change for the better, no?

@bxnny0374

Жыл бұрын

@@azlizzie I think they’re just saying that it’s painful to watch others get what you needed but didn’t get to experience. Of course change for the better is good, but it still hurts to watch the people who didn’t support you, support other people like you.

@decorateddeerskull

Жыл бұрын

I guess it's because of the whole "be in the world but not of the world" and if you lean on god, you won't struggle. But then also want to prove They're human too. That's at least how I'm seeing it as an inactive Mormon. I struggled with my sexuality since puberty, constantly claiming that maybe I was bisexual, but I could choose men over women to be a good straight Mormon girl still but suppressing that just made me more depressed. I finally accepted I was pansexual at 29 and did lose support from friends in the church. My own best friend made several homophobic remarks and I felt I had to distance our relationship. I'm lucky I had many friends outside the church that welcomed that with open arms, and my parents love me. But I still haven't come out to many extended family members, because I'm worried how they would take it

I was raised Mormon, and to this day the level of trauma I'm dealing with as an effeminate gay man is soul-crushing. I was taught my entire life that I was supposed to be a p3do. Well, turns out I'm not. But hearing that since the first day you could breathe really changes your self esteem, and how you view the world around you. I hate this church so much. I can't imagine being black in the church and being taught that my skin was the curse of Cain. Such a disgusting religion.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜

@PsiPhy

2 ай бұрын

Breaks my heart to read this. Never were we taught unconditional love, being true to our soul, or being independent from the opposite gender. The world is rising to higher vibrations of Love thanks to people like you

please make this a series

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

DONE

@tonichan89

Жыл бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf I'd love that!! 😍 It'd be a BIG bonus if you read the text on the screen out loud as well, since the tiktok text is pretty tiny on a phone screen when it's been minimized even further. I have to get pretty up close and personal with my phone to be able to read what they're saying 😅

@pruelawrence5415

Жыл бұрын

Yes please!

Your ability to identify church leadership vocally is quite a skill

Scientology better watch out. This tiktoker is out to steal all the celebrities for mormonism.

@ericbalzer1535

Жыл бұрын

Mormonism is Scientology Unplugged.

@graceandersen1394

Жыл бұрын

I'd love to see their take on scientology tiktoks

I feel like this type of video will be popular with other commentary watchers who aren’t necessarily into Mormon content, crossing my fingers the algorithm picks it up!

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Ugh that would be so good

@marlyd

Жыл бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf I think it did cause I ended up here through my recommendations 👌

@sarah29288

Жыл бұрын

#alsoherefornoreason

not the deadname of the latter-day saints ☠️

I love Tanner’s Libertarian rant. I remember cringing in the temple at the words “legally and lawfully” like what happened to My Kingdom is not of this world. Then comes the law of consecration.

I feel like only cult members have the need to bring up that they're not in a cult lol :P Like if I was all, "Do you want to join my organization? Don't worry, it's not a cult!" you'd immediately think it's a cult :P Non-cult organizations don't have to explain that they're not cults because it's just obvious they're not :P

I'm a year late to this, but I've only recently found your channel as I'm deconstructing in therapy. That tiktok about the woman crying as she was having a faith crisis and triggered by this trend... that made me tear up. I'm really grateful for your compassionate responses to these. Realizing that I'm not an atheist but that this overly sanitized constructed version of spirituality fed to me was a lie is so tough, and I love that you're so understanding toward people who are in every stage of this walk, without ever chastizing people for believing, no matter how long. As well as the responses like realizing there was nothing wrong with me for being bisexual, I didn't need faith healing from my disability... it hurts a lot to see that there are so many people who feel like this every day about normal things.

@ZelphOntheShelf

3 ай бұрын

💜💜💜

Never Mormon, but I really love your videos 💜💜💜

@theyoutubeanalyst3731

Жыл бұрын

Same

@trixieloo

Жыл бұрын

Same

You guys need to react to the tiktoks interviewing BYU students!!

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

By Daniel?

I've had more Mormon content than usual on my FYP and it always gives me such weird, sad vibes. This video sums it up so well!

I tried to read the CES letter a few times but found it boring. The letter in particular didn’t have an earth shattering effect for me. Good thing there are hundreds of other reasons to leave the church.

@Smilesremember2Smile

Жыл бұрын

I read it but not all in one sitting. I read it over like a week or something. Just a few bits here and there. It is a little dry tho.

If polyamory exists, then it ruins monogamy for the rest of us or smth 🙄

@gilly_axolotl

Жыл бұрын

It works thru osmosis

@MC-tw1jg

Жыл бұрын

No that’s soaking

@graceandersen1394

Жыл бұрын

@@MC-tw1jg lol

@timnewman1172

Жыл бұрын

As an ace male, we kinda balance each other out...

Algorithm comment! Swamped in uni work right now, they even expect me to show up in person again... Always excited to see you on my feed

I grew up in a fundamental church. When I reached the age of reason (and too much issues and drama from the "authorities" we were supposed to follow blindly), I officially left the church's membership. When some young adult saw me a year or so later, already wearing pants (I am female and supposed to just wear skirts) they said I'm going straight to hell to my face and they laughed lol. Glad I got out. But for a time, it was the only life I knew.

Re: "all for nothing" feelings. Honestly that's why I tell ppl I'm culturally Catholic lol. I went to Catholic school k-12. Big Irish-american family. Its definitely part of my childhood and adolescence

I really appreciate your videos! I have so much uncertainty in my life at the moment and it's just great to be able to keep coming back to your channel and have nice, comforting, entertaining content from you two! I hope you guys have a great week!

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Aww yay!! You too!! 💜💜

@skorqion_art

Жыл бұрын

@@ZelphOntheShelf thank you 💖

I love watching you two! This was absolutely wodnerful!

I love your stuff. thank you both for being so great

Recently found your page and I love you guys! As an ex Jehovah’s Witness I relate to a lot of what you guys talk about. Cults gonna cult

ive been researching mormonism because its slowly become a special interest of mine through the musical and this came up of my youtube recommended. when you started singing 'turn it off' i cannot describe the sheer joy i felt

Loved this video!❤ Tanner please do some videos on your outfits/fashion. I love your style👌🏻☺️

I was just wondering what the Mormons where getting up to on TikTok but not enough to check so thanks haha

@alynareading5448

Жыл бұрын

*were

Y'all got that Wendigoon background music going on at the beginning. I love it!

Enjoying your videos so much guys. Great dialogue 🎉

Hey Sam, Did you know that Taylor Swifts life coach is Jody Moore, a Mormon. She’s a pretty cool nuanced Mormon but Mormon all the same. 😂

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

WHAT!!!!!! Didn’t even know she had a life coach haha

@brittanyalexissinger

Жыл бұрын

I used to listen to her religiously. Then I picked up on some seriously toxic ideas and got scared off. For example, her whole “choose the story that serves you” is so dangerous and it is why my friend stayed in an abusive marriage for years. (I recommended Jody’s podcast to her-still feel so guilty about that!)

@esthekatie

Жыл бұрын

Omg I’m a pretty dedicated swiftie and I didn’t know this either!! I don’t think this is well known!

Great discussion you two! Even when Tanner tries to dress down, I want what he's wearing. I'm 75. Sigh. I'll just get into my kaftan then. GOB BLESS! 🌈🦄💃💜

[Thinks of pre-New Girl Zooey Deschanel and all the un-Mormon indie movies she did which I devoured throughout adolescence for Very Hetero reasons] I mean, I'd personally be surprised.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Hahaha

As an environmental science student with Mormon parents.. it's great seeing their reactions adapt. Before I was credited and just shared what I learned in middle school science, my dad would say "we didn't come from monkeys" or "dinosaurs never roamed this earth" (wild bc we literally have their fossils.) To "oh wow, I never learned about panga before, who knew we could track the continents by irons orientation in the ground! Cool!"

Yess I've wanted a video like this!

Regarding your point that the Mormons have linked their idea of sexual sin to legal/civil marriage: A more insidious side effect is that it makes them fell like religions should dictate how legal marriage works for everyone. The existence of gay marriage is a thorn in their side because it makes gay sex officially not a sin unless they create a special exception in their own rules just to exclude same-sex marriages. I.O.W. secular marriage having secular rules feels like oppression to them because it represents society messing up their doctrine, so they fight to have theocratic rules governing legal marriage for everyone.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

👏🏻

I've been wondering for a while how you two feel about consuming non-mormon content made by a mormon creator... such as author Brandon Sanderson, musician Lindsay Sterling, or youtubers even, the only example I can think of being Shadversity. Do you think about certain things when you find out someone whose content you are interested in is mormon? Do you feel comfortable consuming it still, or does it feel too distracting? Do you think about those 10% of their earnings going to the church? I'm genuinely curious, since mormonism is something you both feel strongly about, how that affects areas like these for you.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

we’ve talked about reacting to twilight!

@eeeeggnog._.

Жыл бұрын

Recently found out the creator of The Land Before Time was mormon and that it was specifically made to parallel Brigham young leading the pioneers across the plains 😳

Based on the shortness of her shorts, I don't think "not a cult" girl is wearing mormon underwear either.

Loved this!

Hahah. My best friend has the same thoughts about my excitement for the new swift album… TONIGHT!!! 🎉

loved this!!!

I want more ! I don't like going to tik tok myself but I love curated reaction content :D

I have a Mormon friend I grew up with. We were in the same ward and she makes a ton of lds TikTok videos. I legitimately thought the girl in the thumbnail was her but have been out of the church long enough to forget how many lds girls look basically exactly like that.

In summary: We're eating the cake and vomiting it repeatedly

I love Tanner talking about talking about things using “different names”. As a society we have gotten really good at making multiple ways of saying the same thing so one can have a good connotation while the other has a bad connotation. Some people are able to see right through some of those things such as those who point out taxation is nothing more than theft. Rather than limiting those changes in name to just say the leaders of the church you can go farther and even point out that many people would hate someone who simply takes credit for all that is good and says that everything bad comes from someone else yet this is precisely what Moroni says about God in Moroni 7. If it is good it is of God. If it is bad it is automatically of the devil. Verses 12 and 13 set this up well and 14 is the part that goes further and makes sure that you take the blame if you don’t think something God did is good it is obviously your fault that ye “judge[d] that which is evil to be of God” Nor should you ever consider the devil(other sources) to be able to take credit for that which is of God. And there you have the simple definition that anything different than God’s will is evil. So don’t you dare think differently. Conform. Interestingly as you start realizing the lies of religion you can start seeing the same lies in other places, such as government, because religion often is nothing more than politics at its worst (“My way is the only right way and we will make sure to enforce that through any means necessary”). I’m curious what Samantha and Tanner would think about a site like amicable.life.

There should be a ces letter podcast

These response videos are entertaining!

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Yay!!!!

And EVERY mormon will live polygamy in heaven, surely every mormon knows

Around 2:15 when the dude is walking toward the temple or whatever i like how the camera is slowly falling

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for noticing that haha, there was a bit where I roasted that shot but I cut it out!

@meimei51793

Жыл бұрын

Lmao throw it in a short i was surprised yall didnt mention it 😂

I can't think of anything to say besides great video 😁

Creepy how accurate your Chelsea impression was!!!

Started taking notes at 27:00 and at 32:09 - great insights. I often wonder how people that I'm close to stay believing/ following in spite of the evidence against it.

Oh my gosh! One of the TikTok’s is by Noelle Bybee. She served a mission several years ago in the area I live. She thinks she is a celebrity because she was on The Voice or something. I remember during a church activity she talked about it and everyone got so excited and wanted to take pictures with her. Lol. She very clearly had an attitude and has always posted on social media wearing “immodest” clothing so I always considered her to be less faithful. That was back when I fully believed it.

You can't stop me from taking shots. What are you, the general authorities?

I could watch you guys watch mormon tiktoks all day

keep up the good work!

I'm feeling Tanner's rope necklace

3:44 If that's the young adult fireside that the prophet was hosting May 2022, I was there and it was awful. People literally were dropping like flies outside because the church had said "every young adult in the valley is welcome." The conference center holds 22,000 people. There's hundreds of thousands of young adults in the valley. So, there was a giant crowd outside the conference center. The church had no crowd control, no barricades to form a line, and it was really hot and sunny. I waited out there for 30-45 minutes, and I was closer to the entrance in the shade. I had to make room numerous times for people to be brought to the shade since they were getting heat exhaustion. I saw one girl drop to the ground as she passed out. Multiple people had to be rushed inside since they had passed out. When we finally got inside, there was only one drinking fountain, with maybe 50-100 people in line to get a drink. I went into the bathroom before it started, and people were drinking out of the sinks. I was getting angry. Then, when the meeting started, Uchtdorf came out and said with a big smile, "look at this wonderful congregation of young adults, we are filled to capacity." And then moved on. No apology for their lack of crowd management, or for not having some kind of distribution system for tickets. No apologies for the backed up freeways and numerous car accidents that happened because of it. And then, at the end, they announced that there was cookies and water over by the church's museum of art. I went, and they had excess supplies by the end of handing out water and cookies, and were sending people home with tons of supplies. To think they could've been handing those out at the beginning so people could hydrate and get some calories into their systems so that they didn't pass out.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Whoah

I grew up Mormon in California, but moved to Utah a couple years ago. I stay with family and can't leave because of financial and mental health reasons. Phasing myself from trying to keep going to BYU to being completely agnostic and having to change schools has been one of the loneliest things I've done in my life. A large part of it has to do with depression and social anxiety, but it's not just that that makes it so much harder to make friends. The majority of the population here is Mormon and/or has Mormon beliefs on a lot of things I now STRONGLY disagree with (LGBTQ+ stuff, science, political stuff, etc.). It just makes me feel funky to interact with them. Because I've been there (maybe not as strongly as most, but I can guess pretty well what goes on in their heads about certain topics). I'm bi and even though I've had Mormon friends that say they will love me no matter what, accept me, etc., I know they can't TRULY, deep down, if they firmly say that they're Mormon. At least one of them constantly uses their sibling's deadname and old pronouns. That's enough evidence. Also I can't ever over get the fact that the person they believe to be the one who restored the gospel they hold so true to them was married to children. It just feels weird to be surrounded by that. Especially coming from a place with such a variety of religious beliefs. I'm already in a weird transition period of my life. I used to live in California and went to a VERY liberal high school. I've never dared to stand so alone as now, Tommy.

oh yeah, the whole "consistently reading the book of mormon" reinforcement was. so bad for my OCD. I've realised recently that I have OCD and looking back on the time when I was mormon, goddamn mormonism feeds into OCD so perfectly, it's heinous

another banger!!!!

The spirit told me my cult was true. The spirit didn't tell me anything about science though...

I’m not religious and I was barely raised around religion but I am fascinated in these videos

i got the first one on my FYP too😭

I talked with a Mormon about polygamy, and he said RMN was practicing spiritual polygamy…that was a new and confusing claim.

So glad I'm not the only one who immediately notices American flags like that (and I'm American). The toxic 'patriotism' that's getting stronger and more tightly enmeshed with conservative religion is scary.

@randomname4726

8 ай бұрын

It's so weird, I can't remember the last time I saw my countries flag. People don't use flags here, we see it as a weird American thing.

Dang I am so non religious I never had that thought that it is the government controlling that decision(waiting til marriage). wild to realize how crazy that is and very interesting, appreciate your commentary

Has Tanner ever been told that the sorts looks like Milo Ventimiglia? Lol he kinda does.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Yes!!

18:37 that's interesting, i was raised Catholic and was told that legal marriage means nothing and if you are only married civilly you are living in sin since its not a union blessed by God, my great grandparents were from a small Mexican village an only married by the church. Yet many Catholic are still anti gay marriage 🤦🏽‍♀️

The part about the Bieber is being the “don’t judge” type of Christian is unfortunately incorrect. They belong to Hillsong church which is notorious for being very anti-LGBT and while they may not openly say anything about disagreeing with gay rights because it will harm their careers by supporting that institution that is all we really need to know

Smug self satisfaction wrapped in humility.

The owner of skinwalker ranch is morman Brandon fugule.

Can you read the captions please, so I can listen while I’m working! Otherwise I’ll have to wait till after I get off to watch, and I’ll forget!

I think the idea that Mormons aren’t Christian is similar to the idea that Christians aren’t Jewish, although they believe in the Old Testament. In the same vein Mormons believe in the Bible( thus making them “Christian”) but also believe in the Book of Mormon. It is correct then to refer to them as L.D.S. / Mormon but not Christian

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Totally

@kingofthedots3835

Жыл бұрын

Until Armageddon comes ,of course 😂😂😂👍🚂

@Trethan3266

Жыл бұрын

Too bad the church doesn't seem to believe in love.

@kingofthedots3835

Жыл бұрын

@@Trethan3266Jesus said that the love of the greater number would cool off ,due to the increasing of lawlessness !......our neighbor of 26 years ...a staunch baptist acts like we don't exist ...because my wife briefly visited her mega church ,but stopped ....We are treated like we are dead by this delusional fool !......it's pure comedy !

@suedes4373

Жыл бұрын

Aww this is my favorite scripture and was also my music teachers favorite. Its little but thanks for accidentally bringing back good memories and spreading positivity🤍

❤ your hair

Not ex Mormon but on ex Mormon tik tok 😂 ex Pentecostal. As I like to say same bullshit diff name. Love your content ❤

@dawn8293

Жыл бұрын

I'm a former Mormon. I wasn't able to watch ex Mormon stuff for a long time at the beginning of my faith transition, but I could watch ex fundie stuff, and it really helped me deconstruct what I believed because it was pretty similar but not identical.

I can’t. It’s too much. They are on point but damn!

Walls lined with spikey carpet unlocked a memory. Holy shit.

"...lowers the value of marriage..." Of course! The lack of an HOA-equavelent for marriage is why people aren't valuing marriage anymore! We really should have thought of that earlier...more rules-lawyers inserting themselves into everyone's relationships will prevent recessions in the marriage market...right?

Lol great vid!

13:13 Snoop Dog would smoke a Book of Mormon.

Honestly I still love Rexburg as an exmo… so gorgeous!

I have my theory about marriage. Socially, and within traditionally religion, marriage generally functions as a way to announce that you promise to be with this person and only this person for the rest of your life. It's a way of telling everyone that you are really taken, and that you will only have sex and kids with this person. Marriage is about being held accountable by your community. In the past, that was considered a good thing, but honestly, you can promise to be with someone in private, and as long as you mean it, I can't fathom why it's anyone else's business? Like, God already heard that promise, supposedly, so why should he care about a piece of paper? As it happens, I am going to get married, and I'm stoked about it, but I don't believe in God, and I've already promised to be with my fiancè for the rest of our lives. I'm that sense, we might as well already but married.

@petrichorbones

Жыл бұрын

thats exactly how i feel about it. im actually only recently ex christian so i was still christian when i got married but i moved in with my now husband before we were even engaged. bc i would not be moving in with someone if i didn't already know i planned to be with them forever... i got told by my parents that i should worry about what people will think which is very strange to me considering my mom was very adamant i should not feel the need to wait for marriage (like to the point it was detrimental since im ace and don't care about s*x lol) but like also why should i even care what people will think? lol

When is the next worshipping the Whale in SLC meeting? I'll be there!

i feel like the marriage thing is the fact they also don’t believe in divorce. So it is much easier for men to trap unsuspecting virgin women in permanent relationships

The man looks like Milo Ventimiglia in his Heroes phase here

@ZelphOntheShelf

Жыл бұрын

Not the first or second time we’ve got this comment! Haha

A mormon I know who was a teacher and a principal told me a while back that he believes in evolution but just not that we evolved from apes and I said "I have no problem with that" meaning that I have no problem with humans evolving from other apes but I think he took it as meaning I have no problem with his perception. I guess I don't have a problem with it in a sense since I have no intention to invoke a ban on that perception or something but I do have a problem with the perception it's self. We are apes... and monkeys and primates and mammals and vertebrates and eukaryotes and organisms... and that is a simplified nested hierarchy of our ancestry.