Charity, I. Forgiveness by C.S. Lewis Doodle (BBC Talk 15, Mere Christianity, Bk 3, Chapter 7)
Is there anything more painful than forgiveness, when you feel like they don’t deserve one scrap of it? Even if you do forgive, does forgiveness mean stopping their due proportional punishment from an authority? Here Lewis continues to look at those parts of Christian morality which are the most unpopular. Notes below...
Lewis wrote a broadcast on Charity for 15 minutes, but the BBC cut his segment to ten minutes, so he could only cover that part of Charity which deals with ‘forgiveness’. Nevertheless, the radio talks ended up being printed and expanded to include his original notes, and the subject of Charity became two separate chapters in the book ‘Mere Christianity’ - ‘Forgiveness’ and ‘Charity’.
You can find the book here: www.amazon.com/Mere-Christiani...
(1:43) You can find the quick links to the scripture references in the comments section below.
(4:08) Many people seem to think forgiving means excusing: “They think that if you ask them to forgive someone who has cheated or bullied them, you are trying to make out that there was really no cheating or no bullying. But if that were so, there would be nothing to forgive. They keep on replying 'But I tell you the man broke a most solemn promise.' Exactly: that is precisely what you have to forgive. (This doesn't mean you must necessarily believe his next promise. It does mean that you must make every effort to kill every trace of resentment in your own heart - every wish to humiliate or hurt him or to pay him out)” ('On Forgiveness').
(7:24) "In so far as you are simply an angry man who has been hurt, mortify your anger and do not hit back", but “in so far as you are a magistrate struck by a private person, a parent struck by a child, a teacher by a scholar, a sane man by a lunatic, or a soldier by the public enemy, your duties may be very different, different because there may be then other motives than egoistic retaliation for hitting back...” ('Why I Am Not a Pacifist').
(1:50) A Christian's forgiveness of others, because of God’s forgiveness of our own sins, differs from the worldly variety that forgives: 'for Me'; or 'for my own health and well-being'; or because it 'reduces ones own stress'; or 'for one's own benefit'; or 'because I have a generous nature'; or 'because it creates unity' (no doubt it does, but that is not why we forgive). The world at times seems to revel in forgiving the unrepentant and condemning the innocent. Lewis talks about this "humanistic forgiveness" here:
“…If we judge the 19th century from the books it wrote, the outlook of our grandfathers (with a very few exceptions) was quite as secular as our own...most striking of all is the 33rd chapter of ‘The Antiquary’ [i.e. The Amateur Historian], where Lord Glenallan forgives old Elspeth for her ìntolerable wrong. Glenallan has been painted by [Walter] Scott as a life-long penitent and ascetic, a man whose every thought has been for years fixed on the supernatural. But when he has to forgive, no motive of a Christian kind is brought into play: the battle is won by "the generosity of his nature". It does not occur to [the author Walter] Scott that his fasts, his solitudes, his beads and his confessor, however useful as romantic "properties", could be effectively connected with a serious action which concerns the plot of the book. I am anxious here not to be misunderstood. I do not mean that Scott was not a brave, generous, honourable man and a glorious writer. I mean that in his work, as in that of most of his contemporaries, only secular and natural values are taken seriously. Plato and Virgil are, in that sense, nearer to Christianity than they…” ('The Decline Of Religion').
(8:53) “Those who would reject patriotism entirely do not seem to have considered what will certainly step-has already begun to step-into its place. For a long time yet, or perhaps forever, nations will live in danger. Rulers must somehow nerve their subjects to defend them or at least to prepare for their defence. Where the sentiment of patriotism has been destroyed this can be done only by presenting every international conflict in a purely ethical light. If people will spend neither sweat nor blood for “their country” they must be made to feel that they are spending them for justice, or civilisation, or humanity. This is a step down, not up. Patriotic sentiment did not of course need to disregard ethics. Good men needed to be convinced that their country’s cause was just; but it was still their country’s cause, not the cause of justice as such.”
The original broadcast had the following words emphasised (italicised in the book) which add to understanding: (shown in CAPS): “But all depends on REALLY WANTING”; "So loving my enemies doesn’t apparently mean thinking THEM nice either”; “the ordinary word to KILL and the word to MURDER”; and “Christ used the MURDER one in all three gospel accounts”.
Пікірлер: 45
To those of you who are listening to the soundtrack of the doodle in the car, please be aware I insert sound effects to go with the illustrations sometimes - so when C.S. Lewis encourages us to hit our resentments (towards God and others) on the head and take them out, I animate a duck shooting gallery at the fair or carnival. Please don't confuse this with a drive-by shooting near you!!! Props Leo Prinsloo.
C.S. Lewis has an incredible mind. His clarity and simple manner is a rare treasure.
Hardest lesson to learn. But once you learn to forigve, you will also be forgiven. Praise Jesus.
These are very helpful, just imagine trying to explain this to someone. But show them these and they begin to understand. Very good job
Whenever I need wisdom and clarity, calmness and peace I find these doodles and C.S. Lewis’s wisdom so satisfying.
You still upload.....!!! That makes me very happy!
I appreciate your inclusion of Scripture. Even your drawings show that you spend much time there. 😊 Keep up the good work!
Very relevant today, but not surprising that Lewis was on to it even then. Forgiveness is easier said than done, especially now when people promote resentment as a virtue. Lewis was ahead of his time.
How enlightening! Particularly the part about loving others as I love myself. The picture's become clearer to me. Thank you!
The shooting gallery sound effect gave me a jump lol. Great video - I've always enjoyed Lewis for his ability to make difficult concepts easy to understand.
That was wonderful. I say the Lord’s Prayer every night and always wonder about forgiving those that trespass against us and what it really means. This was really an aha moment for me and now I understand clearly. Thank you 🙏
With all that brilliantly said, it's an amazing testimony of truth when we see just how the early Christian movement spread for the first 300 years or more - without any military means of conquest and despite the massive persecution, the first Christians changed the world by simply obeying the commandments, *love thy God with all your heart and love thy neigbour as yourself* . They showed the world charity and love despite all the hardships they had to go through.
Keep it up! you make Lewis accessible to more people, this is a gift!
A much needed proper and accurate perspective concerning the concept of loving your neighbor.
Fantastic work, as always. Lewis' words bring a clarity that furthers discussions amongst my friends as all of us try to become better people, and your drawings make it digestible and shareable so the discussions can actually happen. Thank you for your effort!
Thank you for sharing. This answered some questions I've been asking the Lord, in an easy to relate to manner which I am able apply to my everyday life. God's blessings.
This is amazing!!! I’ve been struggling with the concept of Loving my neighbor, and this just simply straightened me out. Thank you so very much for this!!!!
Thank you so much! This is incredibly helpful!!🙂
This is amazing. C. S. Lewis's writing as well as your doodling and the narration.
Absolutely beautiful.
I really needed this. Thank you.
You make reading the book so much better thanks for that.
I loved everything y'all have put in here. Thank you.
'He who has ears, hear'
Whoo-hoo! A new video! Always excited to see a new one: hope you are doing well :) ~The Data Cruncher
Edifying as always.
Thank you for posting. This has blessed me and I hope will bless my friends aswell x
Thank you . Your visual drawings are a great helping tool to understand such complicated matters!! This was of relevance to me today ! Again , I really appreciate you.
Great Doodle! Nice work. Such powerful writings
Love it!
Great video! Really well animated
Love these videos! Thank you for making this!
A very good series of readings on genuine repentance by Oswald Chambers is found here: utmost.org/repentance/ (7th-9th of December)
(1:43) A brief look at forgiveness in the Bible which you might find helpful: ➔That Forgiveness is required by us after genuine repentance (Luke 17.3, Matt. 18.15 & Lev. 19.17), or we shall not be forgiven by God. Rebukes are a surprisingly necessary precursor. biblehub.com/luke/17-3.htm biblehub.com/matthew/18-15.htm biblehub.com/leviticus/19-17.htm ➔That tears are not necessarily repentance, but that no-one regrets Godly sorrow (Hebrew 12-17 & 2 Cor. 7.10). Fake repentance is often used as a means to plunder a victim; a devious tool to regain past losses with no genuine repentant intent (See 1 Kings 20.31 where a captured criminal King, is forgiven and needs to be refought only three years later - 1 Kings 22.1). It was all a show - inwardly he was still plotting destruction. biblehub.com/hebrews/12-17.htm biblehub.com/2_corinthians/7-10.htm biblehub.com/1_kings/20-31.htm ➔Since the price was paid for sin at the cross, forgiveness is given by God out of His justice (“if we confess our sins if we repent, he is faithful & JUST” - interestingly, forgiveness is not just out of His mercy) & therefore forgiveness is required from us out of justice due to God’s forgiveness of our sins. If it is not in your heart to be merciful, be just, because God has been just with you (1 John 1.9, Luke 11.4, Mark 11.25, Matt. 6.12 & Matt. 18.35). biblehub.com/1_john/1-9.htm biblehub.com/luke/11-4.htm biblehub.com/mark/11-25.htm biblehub.com/matthew/6-12.htm biblehub.com/matthew/18-35.htm ➔Forgiveness is often given by God (or a righteous person) because of ignorance in the sinner, without repentance. Those offending thought themselves doing right at the time. This ignorance can be with surprising groups, i.e. not just the Roman soldiers doing their duty, but Christ’s countrymen who crucified Him, or sided with them (Luke 23.34, Acts 7.60, Acts 3:17 & 1 Cor. 2.8). biblehub.com/luke/23-34.htm biblehub.com/acts/7-60.htm biblehub.com/1_timothy/1-13.htm biblehub.com/acts/3-17.htm biblehub.com/1_corinthians/2-8.htm ➔Godly kindness is meant to lead sinners to repentance (Rom. 2.4), but if it fails, God will bring exact proportional justice. In the case of the wicked, i.e. they deliberately & knowingly sin, then the only solution is proportional punishment. “But when kindness/grace is shown to the wicked, they do not learn righteousness; even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil & do not regard the majesty of the LORD" (Isa. 26.10). biblehub.com/romans/2-4.htm biblehub.com/isaiah/26-10.htm ➔Proportional punishment can work wonders where nothing else will! Joseph is the model of God's tough dealings and His forgiveness when tried-and-true repentance is shown (See Genesis 14.4-14, 44.33, 45.4-7 & 50.15). biblehub.com/genesis/42-9.htm biblehub.com/genesis/42-21.htm biblehub.com/genesis/44-33.htm biblehub.com/genesis/45-4.htm biblehub.com/genesis/50-21.htm ➔Sometimes sins are unforgivable & must be punished in this lifetime (Matthew 12.31-32 & Hebrews 6.5-6). biblehub.com/matthew/12-31.htm biblehub.com/hebrews/6-6.htm ➔In some exceptional cases, forgiveness is forbidden by God (Jer. 5:7-9, 7.16, 11.14, 14.11,18.23 & Neh. 4.5), and in some cases concerning the unrepentant, forgiveness can be optional for the saints (John 20.23 & Rev. 6.10). biblehub.com/jeremiah/5-7.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/7-16.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/11-14.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/14-11.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/18-23.htm biblehub.com/nehemiah/4-5.htm biblehub.com/john/20-23.htm biblehub.com/revelation/6-10.htm ➔Even when sins are not forgiven because of ignorance, ignorance does reduce the level of proportional punishment required (Luke 12.47-48). biblehub.com/luke/12-47.htm ➔God does not forgive all sin, hence Hell. If there is no repentance, & no ignorance, there can be no heavenly destination. Compare Steven’s forgiveness of the ignorant & Jeremiah’s warning to those of his day who knew better: Jeremiah 26.15 vs Acts 7.60. As Lewis says in ‘The Problem of Pain’: “I said glibly a moment ago that I would pay “any price” to remove this doctrine [of Hell]. I lied. I could not pay one-thousandth part of the price that God has already paid to remove the fact. And here is the real problem: so much mercy, yet still there is Hell.” biblehub.com/jeremiah/26-15.htm biblehub.com/acts/7-60.htm As a Christian, forgiveness can be surprising and is most often far wider than you would like (Jonah 4.11), with God requiring you to forgive certain repentant people who have committed offenses against you, as C. S. Lewis discusses in this doodle. Occasionally it is narrower also, with certain individuals (to whom you have some kind of loyalty or natural affection) that must NOT be forgiven (see Jeremiah’s natural affection for Israel, which had to be overcome: “Do not pray for this people!” (Jer. 14.11) and also the Prophet Samuel regarding rejected King Saul (1 Sam. 16.1). Ahab forgave a wicked man (who faked repentance) due to an old friendship, and it cost him his life (1 Kings 20.42) in contrast to David (Psalm 18:37). biblehub.com/jonah/4-11.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/14-11.htm biblehub.com/1_samuel/16-1.htm biblehub.com/1_kings/20-42.htm biblehub.com/psalms/18-37.htm This second restriction on forgiveness might apply to a corrupt official or abuser, where to forgive an act against oneself (or another) would allow the bribery or abuse to continue, where punishment would have corrected the problem. They must be exposed & expelled, usually at some personal cost, as it is far easier to give in. Punishment may need to be pursued here even though the group pressure in these situations is often to forgive (or rather excuse) & sweep the sin under the carpet. When there is no repentance but deliberate deception, proportional justice needs to be done. And although fair punishment might not bring repentance in word or attitude, it might bring it in terms of future behaviour. In these situations, it's vital that you have the mind of the Holy Spirit as to what to do. Even when punishment is impossible (e.g. you do not have the authority to punish, or your report to an authority is ignored, or the authority can not act because there is a lack of witness evidence to prove your case, or you have unjust judges or because it is not profitable at this time - Matt. 13.29), you must not be in an amicable position to the sinner in these cases. See Psalm 139:21 ‘O Jehovah do not I hate (sometimes translated as ‘reject’) those hating (rejecting) you, and Psalm 1.1 “Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, or set foot on the path of sinners, or sit in the seat of mockers”. See 2 Chron. 19:2 also “Should you help the wicked one, & those that hate the Lord? [No way!]”. And this is not just an Old Testament phenomenon: "Expel the wicked person from among you" (1 Cor 5:13), and from the martyred saint’s made perfect under the throne of God "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you...avenge our blood?" (Rev. 6.10). biblehub.com/matthew/13-29.htm biblehub.com/psalms/139-21.htm biblehub.com/psalms/1-1.htm biblehub.com/2_chronicles/19-2.htm biblehub.com/1_corinthians/5-13.htm biblehub.com/revelation/6-10.htm In this case, you have to leave it with God’s kind of justice, because He can sort it out where we can’t. Those who have sinned against a person will have a similar situation happen to them perhaps, sometimes almost exactly as it happened to their victim, in the hope that their eyes will be opened and repentance from them possible, i.e. they reap what they have sown. That’s God's grace to them. Punishment can actually have brilliant results as we see when Joseph's brothers faced imprisonment in Egypt and they finally realised the full extent of what they had done to their kid brother (Genesis 42.21). Nevertheless, even this kind of perfect punishment can fail depending on the soil of their heart (Jeremiah 5.3 & Amos 4.6-12). All God's judgments are out of love, even that of Hell which is necessary for division, as He must separate the rotten from the good. Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character" (1 Cor. 15.33). biblehub.com/genesis/42-21.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/5-3.htm biblehub.com/amos/4-6.htm biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-33.htm
Are we required to forgive others if they are unrepentant? I don't believe that was addressed here, or maybe I missed it.
@CSLewisDoodle
3 жыл бұрын
The New Testament talks about the necessity of forgiving the repentant (1), and shows examples of the righteous opting to forgive those who are unrepentant but in ignorance (2), but that, of course, leaves the issue of the unrepentant who deliberately and knowingly set out to destroy you or the work of God in your life (3). In the Bible, forgiveness was sometimes forbidden by God. We especially must not forgive when the repentance is fake (4), which I take to mean there are times in our lives when God tells you to have no association with certain people, especially those you are plotting against you or the work that God would have you do (5). It’s important to follow the Holy Spirit here, and when he put a “non-association” order in place, you listen and have nothing to do with them (6), and not be worried that this causes offense (7). This may be a rarity in your life, but it’s worth a mention. (1) biblehub.com/luke/17-3.htm biblehub.com/matthew/18-15.htm biblehub.com/leviticus/19-17.htm (2) biblehub.com/luke/23-34.htm biblehub.com/acts/3-17.htm biblehub.com/acts/7-60.htm biblehub.com/1_timothy/1-13.htm (3) biblehub.com/jeremiah/26-15.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/18-23.htm biblehub.com/revelation/6-10.htm (4) biblehub.com/jeremiah/7-16.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/3-10.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/14-11.htm biblehub.com/jeremiah/11-14.htm (5) biblehub.com/2_chronicles/19-2.htm (6) biblehub.com/psalms/26-5.htm (7) biblehub.com/matthew/15-12.htm
@michaeldeal4846
3 жыл бұрын
@@CSLewisDoodle Thank you for your reply to this. It is very useful.
The chapter of ‘Time and beyond time’. I wish there was a sketch for it too.
@CSLewisDoodle
3 жыл бұрын
In the original broadcasts it was included in 'The New Man' : kzread.info/dash/bejne/o616vMR6mrq9d5c.html
@facelessnine7980
3 жыл бұрын
@@CSLewisDoodle great!! Gonna watch it now. btw thank you so much! God bless you.
@facelessnine7980
3 жыл бұрын
@@CSLewisDoodle your videos are of a great help and its just so wholesome and ah!! its truly beautiful... please continue to do so....
(1:43) A brief look at forgiveness in the Bible which you might find helpful: That Forgiveness is required by us after genuine repentance (Luke 17.3, Matt. 18.15 & Lev. 19.17), or we shall not be forgiven by God. Rebukes are a surprisingly necessary precursor. That tears are not necessarily repentance, but that no-one regrets Godly sorrow (Hebrew 12-17 & 2 Cor. 7.10 & utmost.org/repentance/ ). Fake repentance is often used as a means to plunder a victim; a devious tool to regain past losses with no genuine repentant intent (See 1 Kings 20.31 where a captured criminal King, is forgiven and needs to be refought only three years later - 1 Kings 22.1). It was all a show - inwardly he was still plotting destruction. Since the price was paid for sin at the cross, forgiveness is given by God out of His justice (“if we confess our sins if we repent, he is faithful & JUST” - interestingly, forgiveness is not just out of His mercy) & therefore forgiveness is required from us out of justice due to God’s forgiveness of our sins. If it is not in your heart to be merciful, be just, because God has been just with you (1 John 1.9, Luke 11.4, Mark 11.25, Matt. 6.12 & Matt. 18.35). Forgiveness is often given by God (or a righteous person) because of ignorance in the sinner, without repentance. Those offending thought themselves doing right at the time. This ignorance can be with surprising groups, i.e. not just the Roman soldiers doing their duty, but Christ’s countrymen who crucified Him, or sided with them (Luke 23.34, Acts 7.60, Acts 3:17 & 1 Cor. 2.8). Godly kindness is meant to lead sinners to repentance (Rom. 2.4), but if it fails, God will bring exact proportional justice. In the case of the wicked, i.e. they deliberately & knowingly sin, then the only solution is proportional punishment. “But when kindness/grace is shown to the wicked, they do not learn righteousness; even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil & do not regard the majesty of the LORD" (Isa. 26.10). Proportional punishment can work wonders where nothing else will! Joseph is the model of God's tough dealings and His forgiveness when tried-and-true repentance is shown (See Genesis 14.4-14, 44.33, 45.4-7 & 50.15). Sometimes sins are unforgivable & must be punished in this lifetime (Matthew 12.31-32 & Hebrews 6.5-6). In some exceptional cases, forgiveness is forbidden by God (Jer. 5:7-9, 7.16, 11.14, 14.11,18.23 & Neh. 4.5), and in some cases concerning the unrepentant, forgiveness can be optional for the saints (John 20.23 & Rev. 6.10). Even when sins are not forgiven because of ignorance, ignorance does reduce the level of proportional punishment required (Luke 12.47-48). God does not forgive all sin, hence Hell. If there is no repentance, no ignorance, and no response to correction, how can God forgive? Compare Steven’s forgiveness of the ignorant & Jeremiah’s warning to those of his day who knew better: Jeremiah 26.15 vs Acts 7.60. As Lewis says in ‘The Problem of Pain’: “I said glibly a moment ago that I would pay “any price” to remove this doctrine [of Hell]. I lied. I could not pay one-thousandth part of the price that God has already paid to remove the fact. And here is the real problem: so much mercy, yet still there is Hell.” As a Christian, forgiveness can be surprising and is most often far wider than you would like (Jonah 4.11), with God requiring you to forgive certain repentant people who have committed offenses against you, as C. S. Lewis discusses in this doodle. Occasionally it is narrower also, with certain individuals (to whom you have some kind of loyalty or natural affection) that must NOT be forgiven (see Jeremiah’s natural affection for Israel, which had to be overcome: “Do not pray for this people!” (Jer. 14.11) and also the Prophet Samuel regarding rejected King Saul (1 Sam. 16.1). Ahab forgave a wicked man (who faked repentance) due to an old friendship, and it cost him his life (1 Kings 20.42) in contrast to David (Psalm 18:37). This second restriction on forgiveness might apply to a corrupt official or abuser, where to forgive an act against oneself (or another) would allow the bribery or abuse to continue, where punishment would have corrected the problem. They must be exposed & expelled, usually at some personal cost, as it is far easier to give in. Punishment may need to be pursued here even though the group pressure in these situations is often to forgive (or rather excuse) & sweep the sin under the carpet. When there is no repentance but deliberate deception, proportional justice needs to be done. And although fair punishment might not bring repentance in word or attitude, it might bring it in terms of future behaviour. In these situations, it's vital that you have the mind of the Holy Spirit as to what to do. Even when punishment is impossible (e.g. you do not have the authority to punish, or your report to an authority is ignored, or the authority can not act because there is a lack of witness evidence to prove your case, or you have unjust judges or because it is not profitable at this time - Matt. 13.29), you must not be in an amicable position to the sinner in these cases. See Psalm 139:21 ‘O Jehovah do not I hate (sometimes translated as ‘reject’) those hating (rejecting) you, and Psalm 1.1 “Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, or set foot on the path of sinners, or sit in the seat of mockers”. See 2 Chron. 19:2 also “Should you help the wicked one, & those that hate the Lord? [No way!]”. And this is not just an Old Testament phenomenon: "Expel the wicked person from among you" (1 Cor 5:13), and from the martyred saint’s made perfect under the throne of God "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you...avenge our blood?" (Rev. 6.10). In this case, you have to leave it with God’s kind of justice, because He can sort it out where we can’t. Those who have sinned against a person will have a similar situation happen to them perhaps, sometimes almost exactly as it happened to their victim, in the hope that their eyes will be opened and repentance from them possible, i.e. they reap what they have sown. That’s God's grace to them. Punishment can actually have brilliant results as we see when Joseph's brothers faced imprisonment in Egypt and they finally realised the full extent of what they had done to their kid brother (Genesis 42.21). Nevertheless, even this kind of perfect punishment can fail depending on the soil of their heart (Jeremiah 5.3 & Amos 4.6-12). All God's judgments are out of love, even that of Hell which is necessary for division, as He must separate the rotten from the good. Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character" (1 Cor. 15.33).
Yeah, forgiveness is probably the greatest sin in the atheist religion, especially in this generation. One just needs to turn on the MSM to see this...
@CSLewisDoodle
3 жыл бұрын
As Lewis says in 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe' about atheism: "Always winter but never Christmas!"