I am a retired US Air Force F-16 pilot. I have a lot of problems with what is being said in this interview as well with the associated narrative that for some 20+ years has painted these 2 pilots as heros for what they "would have done" on Sept 11, 2001. There were no military heros on 9/11 except for those that worked to rescue the injured and trapped at the Pentagon. Beyond those, the military saved no lives that day. Absolutely none. The primary game plan to take down any aircraft coming into DC that day by ramming the nose and tail with F-16's was utter nonsense and completely unnecessary except as a very, very, very last resort. Why? Let me explain. The F-16 normally carries up to 511 rounds of live 20mm Target Practice (TP) ammunition on every flight for weight and balance purposes. The F-16's M61A1 Vulcan cannon firing a 20mm 1500+ grain TP round down its barrels at 3400 feet per second is hardly a "BB gun"...despite what was said by Heather Penney in another interview. In that interview it was also said these pilots only had 110 rounds each. That is extremely doubtful. The only reason 110 rounds would have been the limit was if that was exactly how many rounds were loaded or what was left over from previous air-ground training missions (unlikely in both cases). There is, however, an external rounds limiter switch which is typically set to 110 when shooting the gun during air-ground training to facilitate hit percentage calculations(e.g., 40 hits = 40%.) The pilot or crew chief can easily flip the rounds limit switch off before engine start allowing all rounds that are loaded to be fired. So it seems they took off with the rounds limiter switch on and set to the standard 110. As far as engaging an airliner, it would have been simple to intercept and cruise up behind it and put 25 to 50 rounds through the engines, tail, or cockpit. This would have almost certainly taken the airliner down. If all the ammunition was expended, the next thing to have tried would have been a supersonic, very close pass over the engines as this would likely cause the engines to stall and/or flameout. Only after these and possibly other options were tried should a suicide ram have been considered. Sadly, the suicide ram is the FIRST and ONLY option brought up when these these two pilots talk about what they would have done that day. The Pentagon was hit 34 minutes after the SECOND airliner hit the Twin Towers in New York City. 34 minutes! F-16's were sitting on the ground 10 miles away when the Pentagon was attacked. It was an abject failure of our civilian and military leadership that left the nation unprepared to respond and prevent an attack on our nation's capitol with a 34 minute warning. Again, no military heroes that day. The continued blaring for 20+ years about a suicide mission that these pilots WOULD HAVE DONE that day needs to stop. They saved no one. Exit the stage. Enough.

@quitsevensix

Жыл бұрын

Exactly!! Pepper engines, cockpit or flight control surfaces and down it goes

@brotherb5747

11 ай бұрын

I saw two 767's land at Stewart on Sept 11 at 0900. They were rolled into hangars. We heard nothing more.

@jonmunch3298

11 ай бұрын

I agree with you. I have looked at 9/11 as a military failure. As soon as these airliners deviated from their flight plan, jets should have been scrambled to intercept. Also, when you are armed with air to air missiles and 20mm rounds ramming is a stupid option to consider at all.

@coletrickle581

11 ай бұрын

I was just thinking the F-16 has the Vulcan 20mm cannon, and that would have been the way, even in the most remote of scenarios.

@SEPK09

11 ай бұрын

Another part reason for US involvement, warnings prior to 9/11

Who knew until now. Must be 100's of these stories we haven't heard about due to the pain of retelling them. Just Wow & thank you to our Military.

@watchgoose

2 жыл бұрын

this event has been told many times before.

@soulfly3438

2 жыл бұрын

this was spoke about actually very early on. some of the first interviews in the government were about scrambling fighter jets to get to the planes. this was known for awhile. but with the sheer magnitude of stories and heros and events. it is easy to not find or even forget

@gottgaame

2 жыл бұрын

The timing of it doesn’t make any sense. The military truthful didn’t make it to any of the flights, they didn’t even make it off the ground yet.

@thetruthchannel4634

2 жыл бұрын

@@gottgaame With every attack (real or fancied) hero narratives are generated so that if any part is called into question, well then you’re stealing away the heroics that are in the myth. At Boston, it was “in most cases, when a bomb goes off people run away. But in Boston people ran towards the bombs”. Right. So be sure to remove the 209 KZread videos that show exactly what happened. And don’t forget to shout “conspiracy theory” at anyone that questions our government or media at all. The female here is a bit of an overactor.

@BayAreaBully7667

Жыл бұрын

that would be the dumbest thing they could possibly do.. why wouldnt they pull ejection right before and blast out? or least try too

The passenger stood up and saved many more people

@RedTitan5

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't be surprised..if Taliban will launch their attack soon

@mohawk4759

2 жыл бұрын

@@RedTitan5 in a face-to-face war we'd destroy them. they arent gonna invade the us or anything

@RedTitan5

2 жыл бұрын

@@mohawk4759 after what happened to Afghanistan...I would think again...

@jimbeam2299

2 жыл бұрын

@@mohawk4759 they don’t fight face-to-face wars

@mohawk4759

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimbeam2299 Sorry I didn't word that right. What I mean is that you're not gonna see Taliban walking around your city.

Flight 93 was shot down, I understand the whole "story of passengers fighting back" was to help aid in the country rallying behind and feeling good about something before we declared war, but I mean it's 2023 now it's been made perfectly clear the plane was shot down.

@OTSNINO

5 ай бұрын

I, starting to think that too !!!

@ggoutdooradventures510

3 ай бұрын

Got any proof?

@zakapholiac9377

2 ай бұрын

@@ggoutdooradventures510there’s evidence us broke up in the air based on debris and the engine already being broken off before impact

@217italian

Ай бұрын

Wouldn't matter either way. Same outcome. It never made to the White house and No one else on the ground was killed

@famlrnamemssng

Ай бұрын

⁠@@zakapholiac9377But witnesses say it nosedived? A plane that is shot down does not nose dive. Unless you think that the government assassinated all the actual witnesses and replaced them with actors.

They shot it down.. thats the theory Why they talking about missiles? The F-16 has a M61 Vulcan Machine gun. Why would they suicide ram when they’re are ejection seats?

“We took-off with no missiles.” I think they mean they landed with no missiles.

@ShotByCLM

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

@bnol03686

Жыл бұрын

Wow, that’s why they said that.

@joemoney7640

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think they shot it down the Wreckage doesn’t make sense

@zp8362

Жыл бұрын

Bingo

@MrLee23

Жыл бұрын

This is it; this is what happened. Why cover up the true heroism. They did their duty, it was a horrible day in American History. The pentagon was another lie. No evidence of the engines, no damage from wings, f them. I don't blame Patriots for flying our flag upside down. Distress is an understatement present day.

This is idiodic. No way the U.S.A does not have aircraft equipped and ready to protect the homeland. I hate conspiracies about this day but this is dumb.

I am familiar with the well documented story of these selfless heroes. An F-16 is not like a car; you don't just turn on the engine and go. Yet that is exactly what they did. They bypassed all the mandated startup procedures, fired up the jets and just went. I have no doubt they would have taken out Flight 93, if not for the heroics of those on board.

@ourgunsgonfight9412

2 жыл бұрын

They had no interest in protecting and defending anything but property.

@dontmindme633

2 жыл бұрын

I didn’t know this story. It’s amazing and so important. I’m glad to know it now. We Americans need a morale boost once in a while. This was a good one.

@emanueljames7801

2 жыл бұрын

@@ourgunsgonfight9412 I don’t think so. It is not a choice to be taken lightly and I’m not sure if their actions were even legal. But I believe they did the things they did to help. The morals of the situation is questionable but war is often immoral

@bobporch

2 жыл бұрын

@@ourgunsgonfight9412 Nearly 3000 people were murdered on 9/11. How many more lives would have been lost if that plane had crashed in DC. Real estate can be replaced. Look at NY now. And you say they were willing to die for property.

@bobporch

2 жыл бұрын

@@ourgunsgonfight9412 Yeah right, they were willing to die to save property. Did it occur to you that like the Towers there were human beings in those buildings. 🐛

Wow didnt even know this. Salute to them on being brave on the spot situation. God bless y’all

You both are so amazingly selfless😭THANK YOU!

I was there. They did have missiles loaded. This fighter wing is an interception wing, always ready to scramble incase of a threat. Missiles are always loaded. They came back with less missiles than they left with. Allowing the passengers to take the glory was to dodge the controversy of having shot down one of our own airliners.

@ericbulbosa6199

11 ай бұрын

Too bad everyone involved is lying their *** off.

@brotherb5747

11 ай бұрын

No one shot anything down on 9/11.

@SynthD

11 ай бұрын

@@brotherb5747 guess the missiles just up and disappeared 🤷‍♂️

@brotherb5747

11 ай бұрын

@@SynthD Along with AliBaba, his 19 merry hijackers and their 4 vanishing airliners.

@calzadas981

10 ай бұрын

You can easily tell how much they are lying!!

Clearly lying. They shot it down.

@elmin2323

Жыл бұрын

Ah no

@bobporch

Жыл бұрын

The Lord must love dumb*ss TROLLS because He created so many of them🤪

@beinteractive3207

4 ай бұрын

@@elmin2323 I bet you still believe the Pfizer and Moderna shot stopped the spread of covid-19 too

@famlrnamemssng

Ай бұрын

With what missiles?

@caseyziegler1211

Ай бұрын

@@famlrnamemssng I know a cop in NY at the time. He confirmed with 100% certainty it was shot down. They got the call over the radio.

These two are exemplary individuals and I am so proud of them. God bless them, those who lost their lives that day, those who responded, the family and relatives and God Bless America.

@Reactions5.0

2 жыл бұрын

😆, they did nothing

@SEPK09

11 ай бұрын

As said above there was NO military heroes that day.

@famlrnamemssng

Ай бұрын

@@SEPK09But there were those willing to become military heroes if need be

Respect & gratitude are the only two words i could use for them.

God bless you two. That''s all I can say. God bless you for what you were willing to do. I'm glad you didn't have to do it, but the fact you were ready, willing, and able......I applaud you. I wish you both the best in life.

It’s clear what needed to be done and a sad story. But military planes brought down flight 93 without a doubt

@cchris874

10 ай бұрын

There's plenty of doubt. So why do people keep saying this?

Flight 93 was 100% shot down.

Absolutely amazing

Dude I’m sorry but this is such bs, the f-16 has a Vulcan cannon on the side, they’ve had them since the 1980s

I knew what the passengers did on that flight saved many lives but I didnt know that they also saved the lives of these pilots who volunteered to ram that aircraft with their own.

@Jake-Day

5 ай бұрын

Are you that gullible? They shot it down.

@Kataang101

5 ай бұрын

@@Jake-Day are you that gullible? They hijacked the planes and caused this plane to crash

Absolutely amazing!! How brave!

Can you imagine? That takes something more. Thank you, and to those on Flight 93. It's, using the literal term, awesome, how they say they owe their lives to the people who brought the plane down. Because theirs was already forfeit in their minds.

That was amazing and makes me feel proud to be an American. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those who lost their lives and their families. And our first responders who paid the ultimate price. Their sacrifices helped galvanize our country in a positive direction. May they rest in peace 🙏

So we didn’t have fully ready jets in the east coast??? This doesn’t sound weird to anyone??

@jast.1613

2 жыл бұрын

Yes it does. The inconsistencies in protocol that day are concerning to say the least.

How did this story get out? Did they call up the news and say, "hey, we need to let the whole world know what we had planned to do."? Why is this news?

Saying the passengers fought back sounds more heroic.

With a five mile debris field that plane was taken out at 30.thousand not at ground level

They are brave af. I cried while listening to them

Oh my god! How do we not know this story?! There’s so many rumors the plane was shot down. I hope this is the true story. Because the level of bravery is statue worthy. At least a library named in their honor. If they flew up there to die, to save others, just- unbelievable.

@bigmike1850

2 жыл бұрын

Open and shut case with the wreckage field that size and censorship/failure to produce photos of the recovered wreckage and subsequent investigation. It was shot down. It’s not the first one. The US has shot down or disappeared a few commercial planes in political stunts.

@dontmindme633

2 жыл бұрын

@@bigmike1850 to be honest, this seems an unlikely story and you’re probably right. But I’m open to either possibility.

@andostrong9010

Жыл бұрын

They shot it down. They had orders to.

@jennismith2

Жыл бұрын

It IS true…multiple family members were on the phone with their loved ones right up until the very end. They told the passengers about the other planes and the family members heard the passengers planning the attempt to take the Terrorists out. The family members would t lie about what they heard…

@summerrr1

10 ай бұрын

I doubt it’s true. Why would they send up planes with no missiles loaded? It isn’t plausible that the air force would be so poorly prepared for something like this.

No cannon??? No missles loaded???? Wtf????

@emtmcg

2 жыл бұрын

Right? Makes zero sense. Fishy…

@DK-zy1tp

2 жыл бұрын

It is my understanding that this has changed due to 9/11. That there are always some jets at the ready now.

@SC-gh6gd

2 жыл бұрын

@@DK-zy1tp So you truly believe that from the end of the cold war to 9/11 the US let it's guard down? 😂

Hats off to these two heroes.

Im a bit confused on why the f16s were sitting there un armed that does not make any sense those fighter jets are stationed loaded with missles and turret ammo.

Well you could eject before impact. Also fighter pilots shot 93 out of the sky, they didn't want us thinking they had to do that and the heros on board story also helps that narrative.

How was the wreck spread for miles cause they shot it down

i always thought most jetfighters have that secondary machine gun equipped

@complexblackness

Жыл бұрын

They do.

These are courageous people who would do ANYTHING to protect and defend their country. What remarkable and exemplary they are! I also heard that those fighter pilots who escorted the Air Force One on that day would do the same should the missile be launched at the plane.

Why does she not have a rank like him? Did she quit after 9/11?

Well the order did come from the chain of command, he is higher on the food chain, she called him sir. He told her take the tail.

@hb9614

2 жыл бұрын

she went willingly. they were working together, & developed a plan, that was her part if it, it doesn't mean she was ordered to do it.

@0x4rk0

2 жыл бұрын

She’s not even in the service anymore, and no, killing yourself is not a legal order. They both agreed to do it

2 true Patriots and American heroes…. God bless Sass & Lucky…. ❤️🇺🇸

Someone’s lying. I’m literally watching a special on the History channel right now called “9/11: Four Flights”. The female pilot says they had “armed interceptors that were ready to be scrambled.” Supposedly the armed jets were at Otis she goes on to say. This interview comes about halfway into the show. So…..🤔

We had no weapon on the fighter plane only bullets What could they do

Did they scramble from Pittsburgh? There are Air Force jets stationed there!

She was a 1st Lt at the time, got out as a Major. It's annoying they don't mention her rank

For some reason I can't believe this is true.. Seems so fake.. But hey.. If it is.. You are sooner brave individuals and thank you for serving.

why was no missiles on the fighter jets

Yep. I met a lady that lived across the field from where 93 went down and she said she saw a fighter shoot it down. She swore by it.

@alangarrett1181

2 жыл бұрын

BS.

@geometerfpv2804

2 жыл бұрын

People say they see all sorts of crap. It's well-known that eyewitness testimony of individuals without corroboration is garbage. If we use this standard, tons of people claim they were beamed up into alien crafts out of their bedrooms, then medically probed. Are we willing to say that's legit, too? Same standard of evidence.

@rightinthedome9973

2 жыл бұрын

My father also saw it fly over him playing golf. There was no fighter.

@darensmith5270

2 жыл бұрын

Actually I do believe that the military can blow a plane out of the sky if it is heading for Washington DC. They don't advertise that fact but they can and will do what is necessary to protect the Nation's capitol city!

Hmm! Madam with respect it is hard to find an aero plane if it is not there? Frankly I don’t know what to believe anymore

What, so you went up there in 'unarmed' F16's to monitor the hijackers actions? 🤔wtf and yeah right

i worked at a chemical plant very very close to downtown cleveland on 9 11 i cant exactly say for sure what time i seen the two f16s fly directly over our plant. but at least an hour after initial attack if i can remember. the planes were going fast as hell and by my point of view they were headed toward the terminal tower on a north east flight path.

I think they shot it down. Personally.

I know it was the National guard, but giving ANYONE an unarmed fighter jet for a mission like that is stupid asf

That’s so brave .

So in 2001 it wasnt standard pratice to have at least two f-16s ready to take out a threat to the capital/whitehouse LMAO

This gives you chills

How about the Green Mountain Boys here in Burlington VT on Operation Noble Eagle. I believe it was called.

So if this guy was the air National Guard pilot who was tasked with flying at the plane to touch it, what role did Maj. Rick Gibney play?

This story is so intense

@Goldenj360

Жыл бұрын

Because it’s not true. They shot it down.

@Jake-Day

5 ай бұрын

@@Goldenj360correct.

I never heard this. So scary.

one way or another...that last plane wasnt gonna make to its target

First time hearing this wow r.i.p to the victims

Don't ANG units always have fully-armed Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) aircraft on standby? If not, whose job is that?

I'm sorry! But this doesn't help the whole we shot down 93, because missiles aren't the only option, f-16 come equipped with a 20mm cannon.

Why werent some fighter jets already loaded????

Thanks! I trust the truth, not all narratives! My brother died in Desert Storm and I'm still looking for the truth from his death!

Wouldn't they have the cannons loaded and couldnt they fire those? They are 30mm cannons or something like that, they would cut a commercial airplane in half. But maybe even those werent loaded.

She is a badass.

Brave, but ridiculous of our lack of preparedness in not being ready to protect our country.what happens if a bomber or warhead is sent to DC? We're basically saying no jets are ready to protect and defend.

@RedTitan5

2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't be surprised if taliban launch an attack

@jordaneggerman4734

2 жыл бұрын

@@RedTitan5 yeah, cuz they're equipped to send a bomber, halfway around the globe... lmao

@RedTitan5

2 жыл бұрын

@@jordaneggerman4734 don't laugh.. because taliban invaded Afghanistan ..in days...and US disregard it..look at us now...

@jordaneggerman4734

2 жыл бұрын

@@RedTitan5 um...right. I'm not disregarding it, but the Taliban has much bigger problems closer to home.

@RedTitan5

2 жыл бұрын

@@jordaneggerman4734 based on their advancement....I wouldn't be surprised

The plane was shot down. Witnesses on the ground heard fighter jets and a huge explosion in the sky. Which is why debris was scattered around Shanksville.

@Justamedic77

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. It had to be done and I don't blame anyone for the story we were all told. Nobody wants to admit that our Air Force fired upon US citizens and the country needed a feel good story.

@marathongaming1877

2 жыл бұрын

The truth hurts but hey let these ppl have they lil hero story

@johnberholtz5945

2 жыл бұрын

@@marathongaming1877 Kinda weird that the plane witnesses saw was a dassault falcon 20. Must just be a coincidence that the us owns quite a few that can be armed with air to air missiles. Lol

I'm sure at that time we had the highest military budget still and we were sending F16's that had no weapons....

@Boskibro

2 жыл бұрын

Worlds biggest and most well funded air force is the US Airforce. The 2nd biggest and well funded is the US Navy, and the US army is up there lol

Oh gosh. Had no idea that these 2 fighter jets were unarmed.

Two great servicemembers.

Not even bullets, nothing on stand by?

Our best answer to a terrorist attack , as the top world military power , was two unarmed fighter jets over the nation’s capital. Pretty pathetic response.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

The 20mm M61A1 Vulcan that's on all US Fighters except the Harrier and F-35, didn't have any rounds in it or wasn't working? I mean I'm supposed to believe that the only option was to ram the plane? Lessons learned during the Vietnam war, saw that all US Fighters be equipped with a gun. So I find it hard to believe that the Vulcan cannon that F-16s are armed with, was unloaded.

2 of the baddest mfers on the planet. Unarmed assassins.

Then you get those that say this was a conspiracy.

I am surprised they didn’t keep live gun rounds in the plane for these scenarios.

But wouldn’t the passengers in the plane die too?

@jlbyler22

2 жыл бұрын

I think at that point they were assuming the passengers in the plane were going to die regardless. 🙁

They shot that plane down imo

Didn’t have time to arm aircraft? How long does it take? Hopefully the ANG/Air Force is more competent today. I don’t find this a story of exemplary bravery but one of extreme institutional incompetence.

@geometerfpv2804

2 жыл бұрын

It takes a whole crew of people doing a whole bunch of things. It's not a Prius.

@rightinthedome9973

2 жыл бұрын

It can take 20 minutes to arm a fighter. So no they didn't have the time. We don't keep armed lying around Incase of accidental discharges. The same reasons we don't leave loaded rifles laying around.

@Jawnwickk

2 жыл бұрын

@s t a y How is it BS? The Japanese performed Kamikaze for their county, and so did the plane hijackers. What makes you assume American soldiers wouldn't do the same. Fortunately and unfortunately, we didn't have to find out.

Wouldn't they just be able to clip a wing and eject?

@phettywappharmaceuticalsll8842

2 жыл бұрын

That’s a good question.

@geometerfpv2804

2 жыл бұрын

They probably told themselves they would eject at the last moment, but how likely is that to really work out?

@warshire

2 жыл бұрын

That maneuver wouldn't ensure success.

@soulfly3438

2 жыл бұрын

@@geometerfpv2804 its very likely since they train for that moment 1000s of times. they probably wouldn’t have been on board for the impact. they would only have needed to wait for the plane to get low enough to set course and eject. there doing a nice thing for the heros families saying they saved there lives doing what they did on that flight. this was the appropriate way to act. and also the passengers did indeed save them from having to even take the risk. so its not a crazy thing to say.

@dakotastarchild4424

2 жыл бұрын

They could have gotten under the wing of the aircraft with their F-16s and could have tipped it upward; the fighter jets responding to Payne Stewart's Learjet in autopilot limbo considered doing a bump maneuver like that...

Does she not have a rank? I bet she did and it seems it should be in her introduction

so, you load missiles when something bad happens? how about have 1 F-16 fully loaded with aamraams and aim9L just waiting for the pilot in the hangar?

Please...

I thought usaf always have a fully arm jet on standby??...

There are always jets ready to go, fueled, armed, and preflighted. From the time they took off from Langley AFB to the time 93 “crashed” was about a half hour. Which is roughly the amount of time an f16 would take to get there at just under the speed of sound. Considering that it takes 5-10 minutes to get a jet in the air when scrambled they were definitely already on their tail by that point. The fact that the government denied that an f16 was at the scene makes me doubt the passenger story. The government says that there was a private jet in the air that witnesses saw, this is untrue do to the mandatory grounding of everything in the skies that day. Also why would a terrorist crash a plane in a desolate field when there was a town about 2 miles away? Don’t you think a terrorist would try to maximize whatever damage they were going to do and not minimize it? Make your own judgement but I just don’t think the passenger story makes any sense.

@truckingwithnose

2 жыл бұрын

Those f16’s shot it down and are denying being armed

@threatcom

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Anyone with half a brain that was around when it happened knows better. Eyewitnesses saw what they saw and heard what they heard but were quickly ignored and downplayed within days. The debris field prior to ground impact is not consistent with a fully intact plane hitting the ground. The hero story is a convenient cover. I don't know why this long later the Gov still refuses to admit they did what they had to do.

@LostintheHate

10 ай бұрын

@@truckingwithnosebig facts, heard this from several sources

dont know what too think, but still my gut says it was shot down

how would it be their last mission? they had no fighter pilots

What good are fighter jets if they are not armed with weapons?

All I can say or tell you that it happen 10 month ago

see this is why i hate stuff like this firstly Penney and Sasseville were never able to intercept United 93, as it had crashed at least 35 minutes before they took off, and likely would have reached Washington 15 minutes prior to being airborne AND furthermore why would the vice president call them it makes no sense the secretary of defense is who would call. and plus why would they not have sidewinder missles equipped if you have those equipped it is possible to shoot someone from far away. so use a 300,000$ or a 3,000,000 plane? i hate people who take credit for such a sad thing and it hurts me it really does.

Kamikaze or aim and eject?

@reggiewest8975

2 жыл бұрын

💯 No Cap. On God

They did do it, I mean not them some other fighter pilots did.

Whats the point of fighter jets flying around if they don't have any missiles on board?

❤️🇺🇸

They smoked that joker

The F-16s that flew with Air force 1 on 9/11 were instructed to put themselves in front of any incoming missiles.

@cthulhu6479

2 жыл бұрын

Theres multiple occasions where service members will sacrifice themselves for the survival of the president

@darkeyezs

2 жыл бұрын

@@cthulhu6479 I agree and am aware of those who protect the President will do so with their lives if need be. I was pointing out the parallels between the 2 pilots in the video and the ones flying next to Air force 1 on September 11th 2001.

The interview she gave years before talks about getting the orders and not thinking twice

i lost high school and univeristy alumni. they are buried at oak hill, with my parents..... lets roll. san jose...