Me father told me about Montsiquer when I was 5. 65 years ago. He cried when he told me how they sang while they burned. He hated the Catholic church. After being molested by priests as a child so do I.

@thegreatselkie6009

2 ай бұрын

I’m so sorry that happened to you. I read a novel years ago that involved the Cathars and the massacre of them. It was fantasy based in that the main character could move from the present to the time of the Cathars. I lost the book and don’t remember the name of it. I would love to find it again.

@EllenBrighton

2 ай бұрын

Am so sorry for your father. My late father also had horrendous memories too of time spent at a Catholic boarding school. Which Wish you both well.

What an amazing story, these teams of archeologists are amazing.

Absolutely amazing, and such a beautiful place. The level of dedication amongst the archeological specialists is humbling. One has been there for 30 plus years, another began working there as a teenager - so impressive. I don’t know enough about the Cathars , but I think that their ideas about, and rejection of the physical church and it’s organisation, ceremony, hierarchy etc as being “evil” were incredibly interesting and not far wrong. Given the amount of appalling abuse uncovered (finally) in recent times, I can’t imagine what the situation was like centuries ago. Fascinating

@EllenBrighton

5 ай бұрын

Agree

Fantastic documentary, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

A fascinating documentary.

Excellent documentary. Loved the archaeology

There are records of the trial of Cathars by the Inquisition. The best overview is a book called Montaillou about a village where the inquisition held trials. It is based on the extant records. As much as I've read about Monsegur, it was all about the ruins . I had no idea there was a village there on the mountain. Fascinating!

Languedoc looks amazing, wish I could afford to live there, I'm too lazy to earn enough money though

It would’ve been nice to have English dubs of the French speakers. It helps when only listening to the videos at inconvenient times when you can’t have your phone out.

@Dan-be7iu

3 ай бұрын

It was made for TV not ur phone

@Chrisander90

3 ай бұрын

@@Dan-be7iu it’s on KZread, so it’s made available through and for several devices, dunce.

@meeeka

2 ай бұрын

Can you just reset it in Settings?

The eventual fate of Simon de Montfort is quite interesting he moved to his lands in England and became involved in the English Second Barons War of 1261-1265 against the Misrule of HenryIII but was hacked to death at the Battle of Evesham in 1265 but both his sons escaped and the family lost its Extensive English Estates and retreated back to France where eventually the name died out after ending in Heiresses by 1400AD.

@agumperz

5 ай бұрын

The Simon de Montfort who led the Albigensian crusade died in 1218 and was the father of the Simon de Montfort who led the Baron's war in England. Both were remarkable men. The younger Simon came close to winning the Baron's war and completely transforming English history.

@ksc888

4 ай бұрын

The name didn't die out as such, their power may have, but the surname Mumford is supposed to be a corruption of at least 3 versions of the name De Montfort, like Monfoort in Holland and Mundeford in Norfolk.

@geoffhunter7704

4 ай бұрын

@@ksc888 The point is the Family ended in an Heiress or two and the noble name died out as Henry IIIrd forfeited the De Montfort Lands and Patrimonies though he and his son Longshanks were forced into Terms with Montfort the Younger to enable to get back Kenilworth Castle which was successfully held for a year against Prince Edward a Lordship being granted where the remaining De Montforts lived quietly supporting Henry's Successors with a sword hanging over their heads.

I am left with overwhelming sadness. So much unnecessary pain, destruction, and death. So much bigotry and callousness.

@Mika-El-

3 ай бұрын

Yes, friend.

@thegreatselkie6009

2 ай бұрын

And it still goes on in the world.

It's that way now . It has always been that way .

Fascinating. Thank you. One question regarding burials [18.09min - 18.13min] ''...as other Christians, orientated towards the west...'' I understood that Christian tradition is to bury the dead facing east (see Matthew 24:27).

@MsSteelphoenix

5 ай бұрын

I believe they're meaning where the head is in relation to the body, as is common in archaeological terms - the head is in the west, so facing east per tradition.

@jhj6636

5 ай бұрын

@@MsSteelphoenix Thanks for sharing. It makes sense.

Did Simon de Montford leave any reflections on this campaign. Is there anything from outside sources referring to the siege?

❤❤❤

What was the source of water?

The Catharsis were no more "Christian" in their beliefs and practices than other "rigorist" sects which rejected creation through dualistic beliefs. Yes, they used "Christian" Scriptures and concepts, similar to the way modern cults do, such as the Mormons. The medieval Church viewed the Cathars as not only a religious threat but also as a political and social threat to the existing medieval world, hence the raising of a "crusade" against them.

@brianpeck4035

2 ай бұрын

The Cathars were also allied with King John. Do you consider the Arians to be Christian?

And then some religious people have the audacity to wonder why some of we non-religious people do not trust them. All it takes is one rabble-rouser to have the whole lot turn on us and history proves it .

@terryyakamoto3488

5 ай бұрын

Very true, a less kind way to put it could be, an easily manipulated mob of dangerous fanatics who all have the same imaginary friend

The story is an interesting one. though nothing new. All glued and stuck together from other episodes. And why has the narrator to speak with such a - Darth Vader - voice?

The catholic church has MUCH to answer for!

You forget the control and wealth the Catholic church was not getting. Sadly they died horrendous deaths for having another school of thought not forgetting wealth. Perhaps one day the Catholic church will ask for forgiveness.

@Tboe905

5 ай бұрын

No they wont ask for anything.. as all cults do they just want more and more and more biggest crime on this planet is religions look as all the wars and cultures fought and wiped out over the years and still on going. .. pathetic people cant just believe in one another?

@TX200AA

5 ай бұрын

You will have a long wait for The Catholic Church to ask forgiveness for anything.

@EllenBrighton

5 ай бұрын

@@TX200AA quite agree.

@R08Tam

5 ай бұрын

Don't hold your breath

@EllenBrighton

5 ай бұрын

@@R08Tam agree.

But will they find the Holy Grail?

@asunder6797

2 ай бұрын

No.

Would have been nice to have English dub over the French speakers. I close my eyes and listen as I’m trying to fall asleep- and don’t look at the screen.

If I want to read I'll buy a book

To defend the faith from heresy requires fortitude

@Libbathegreat

4 ай бұрын

By "the faith" you mean "the supremacy of the Catholic Church". That's all this was about. They gained some local political clout and won over some wealthy patrons and that was enough reason for Pope Innocent III to declare a jihad on them, basically a genocide by our modern definition. And they killed tens of thousands of people who probably weren't even themselves Cathars.

As a "trained" historian, this is nothing more than a hagiography of the Cathars, not really a "History". There is no balance, no explanation of the political history that was part of this--just, 'how sad for the Cathars'.

@Libbathegreat

4 ай бұрын

You really trying to "both sides" a genocide? Because that's what this was. Yes, their beliefs were eccentric, but no more than any other faith group out there. The fact that they gained some localized political clout in the Languedoc and won over some wealthy patrons and was enough for the Church to see them as threat to their supremacy, so they launched a jihad to extirpate them, along with tens of thousands of people who may or may not have even been part of the movement. It's not that complicated.

They may look like Christians , but their doctrine was not Christian far from it. Read the history not just on KZread, but read a book that gives you the details of everything. I’d like to see something objective, and this is not objective. Definitely one-sided.

@Libbathegreat

4 ай бұрын

Genocides usually are one-sided.

@elsdebakker330

4 ай бұрын

I did, I read some books about them. And yes they were Christians. Real Christians. It made me leave the Catholic church. Sorry

@Mika-El-

3 ай бұрын

​@elsdebakker330 Yes, they were the real christians.

@thegreatselkie6009

2 ай бұрын

They were Christians…

@asunder6797

2 ай бұрын

@@elsdebakker330 Congratulations.

"Cathars" not "Catharsis" in the first sentence below! I challenge anyone to really study the beliefs and practices of the Cathars and tell me that they would choose to live like the Cathar "Perfects" and raise their families in such beliefs. It's easy almost a thousand years later to make the Cathars appear better than they really were. All you have to start with is being trained by our modern society to despise Christianity, particularly the Catholic Church. It's another example of a socially promoted "group think."

@terryyakamoto3488

4 ай бұрын

I would strongly disagree that the contempt for Christianity comes from social pressures. Rather, the decrease in religious belief comes from the removal of "group think" and the unquestioned belief in authority that Christianity formerly enjoyed. Today, in the western world, people increasingly use evidence and rational decision making in their everyday lives, making claims based upon zero evidence, such as Christianity, look like what they actually are, a security blanket for people who are so fragile they can't contemplate the idea that when they die they won't exist

@Libbathegreat

4 ай бұрын

I wouldn't raise my children in the Catholic Church either, so there's that.

@brianpeck4035

2 ай бұрын

Well no one was saying the Cathars were tolerant or Christ like awesome. They did say they walked to their deaths with conviction.

@asunder6797

2 ай бұрын

And the Catholic Church isn't one of the greatest shareholders of group thought? Having a laugh aren't we?

No, I do not consider the Arians to have been Christian. They were Manichean/Bogomil dual-ists who (mis-)used Christian Scriptures just like other cults.

@asunder6797

2 ай бұрын

Christianity started as a cult before someone pretended to own Orthodoxy. The Hebrew Bible is the first Old Testament which was Christianized by Platonic and Greek thought. No literal mention of Christ in the Old Testament. It was written before Christianity in Hebrew; why would they?

The Albagensian Heresy

@asunder6797

2 ай бұрын

Sell all that you have and give the money to the poor in order to follow Christ. Who's a heretic now?

Most of this is in French. They were heretics, not just a different denomination

@wolfdog7265

5 ай бұрын

Meaning?

@robhollis3830

5 ай бұрын

In french.....really? Makes sense due to the fact they are interviewing french archaeologists.

@judithgockel1001

5 ай бұрын

And no other denominations existed at the time of the Cathars.