Ah, but if you put a #8 Washer on the screw, it works GREAT! The washer acts like the flat of the factory pocket hole screw.

@edervalladares8676

2 жыл бұрын

amazing advice, my guy

@thebeststooge

2 жыл бұрын

Damn, you beat me to it as I was just about to type that after I looked at the comments. Good stuff.

@tdfitts

2 жыл бұрын

Or just buy pocket screws.

@ericwhite265

2 жыл бұрын

@@tdfitts obviously that’s the ideal. But if I run a few short on a project I’m going to grab some deck screws and washers. Beats driving halfway across town for a handful of screws.

@GatoLand

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome trick, thanks a lot my friend!

If you're a woodworker who's bought into the Kreg system and are looking to cheaper screws instead of the Robertson Washer Head screws, then I would say you're absolutely right! However, pocket holes is a general technique to create a joint where if you're careful regular screws work just as well and are often preferred - at least in my shop anyway. I'll use a kreg jig to make the hole in construction lumber but not as deep, and then pop an ordinary pan head screw in. In the UK I can buy Pan head screws that work up to 4 inches (100mm), I really enjoy these shorts - just sayin'.

@mumihp

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, I am starting to get into woodworking, from ther UK as well. I have the Kreg R3 jig as starting off. I ready about Pan screws that works as long you are careful, can I ask where you buy yours, ie. screwfix, toolstation ect and can you recommend a link as well, thanks.

@StrawbyteWorkshop

2 жыл бұрын

@@mumihp I use screws from Axminster Tools and Machinery - you'll find them online. Their pocket hole screw differ only in that they have torx drive heads (rather than the Henry square drive ones) and they come in both coarse and fine threaded versions - Same as Kreg. Delivery is pretty cheap so you don't need to trouble yourself with driving to the store unless there's one in your town. They've an excellent set which I do recommend which has pretty much 50-60 of each of the screws you will need for not much money.

@mumihp

2 жыл бұрын

@@StrawbyteWorkshop Many thanks for the tip. Axminster have very good customer service. Kregs screws are expensive, set of 50 box scews work around £8-12 so I been trying to find alternative screws without breaking the bank but I will differently check out the website. Many thanks for reply back.

@mumihp

2 жыл бұрын

You were right, price is so much cheaper, you can pick up a pack of 500 screws for the price of one kreg box of 50 screws. I think I am going to invest in the box set so you have a bit of everything.

@StrawbyteWorkshop

2 жыл бұрын

@@mumihp i'm glad you've checked as I was pretty sure they were super good value.

I buy the pocket hole screws in bulk, just as cheap as regular screws, & no need to worry. Regular screw WILL work if you throw a washer on them or be careful when driving them in how deep

@fomoco300k

2 жыл бұрын

And they WILL work depending on the type of wood and the application your using them for. If you just shove them into soft wood like in the video, they aren’t going to work very well. (It was a good video until he got to the last few seconds and ruined it. Maybe if he had made it long enough to explain it more realistically. Like I said, he was doing great then just left it at a dramatic and unrealistic failure.

I use cabinet screws. They seem to be the same or very similar to pocket hole screws.

In some countries it is impossible to find proper pocket hole screw in regular shop.

Well, if you stopped tightening, it had a chance. lol jk, I love your videos, specially the shorts. Thank you.

Steve, your shorts are awesome.

Cool. Just learnt there's such a thing as pockets screws and drill bits. Thanks.

Exactly, when using regular screws the wood explodes, it has happened to me a few times. Greetings from Spain.

A panhead screw work’s fine. McMaster Carr sells plenty with wide enough heads to accommodate. Finding the square bit screws is a bit more difficult, but Woodcraft sells them by the 100 pack. These work fine for pocket holes.

@Butzacooky

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, been getting panheads by the ton for our woodshop for years with Toolstoday and luckily they're identical to the screws that you get in most pocket hole jig kits. In fact you can still drive screws slowly at an angle without a jig.

@mycourseresource-com

2 жыл бұрын

I had the same thought. Panheads work fine as long as the head is big enough. Steve uses a countersunk screw in his demo and the will most likely always split timber, unless a countersunk drill bit was used - but countersunk drill bits will not work for pocket holes!

@timothymbess

2 жыл бұрын

Spax makes panheads as well. For small weekend projects, you can pick up a box of maybe 20-30 Spax at Home Depot for a couple bucks.

@joshuamurphy5073

2 жыл бұрын

@@mycourseresource-com I've got a set of MCM furniture that has countersunk screws in countersunk pocket holes. Can't do it with Kreg, but it's been done.

Remember too that the PH screw has an auger tip, which helps the receiving board keep from splitting.

@LukeRT

2 жыл бұрын

Could easily blunt the tip of the screw or use nippers to nip the tip off and it will stop it from splitting

@devoid-of-life

2 жыл бұрын

@@LukeRT It's the head of the screw that's causing it to split. Some other people in the comment section seemed to have success with panhead screws (with relatively large heads).

@joebailey8845

2 жыл бұрын

@@devoid-of-life The above 2 comments are referring to the receiving wood splitting, not the piece that the pocket hole contains.

Wish I had seen this 5 years ago when I was really cheap-ing out on buying what was then very expensive Kreg pocket hole screws. Yeah, I split and ruined several frames and table skirts etc. Even learnt to not drive them with impact drivers but use just low torque settings on drill drivers. Then over time learnt that the pocket screws are like bolts and pull/push against a relatively flat shoulder rather than act like a wedge which the wood screws do. I also notice that now in bulk the pocket screws are almost the same price as good quality construction wood screws

I am glad you brought this up and illustrate it so well. Isn't it amazing that in Sweden, when you buy a Wolfcraft undercover jig, they deliver it with a set of regular screws. I complained to them about it and they didn't even bother to answer. Correct screws in Sweden are called Mounting screw and they are more expensive. They save a dime (or even less) on each unit but they teach customers to use the wrong screw and create a poor joint that will break easily.

@milecuvalo

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, I also bought Wolcraft set in Croatia and it comes with regular screws... I cant seem to find proper screws around here. Makes you wonder.

There are tapered pocket hole drill bits available (pre-countersunk) that allows one to use a standard flat head screw.

You could learn this in 30 seconds in this video OR You could learn it over 3 hours making foldable saw horses that have weird gaps between the legs and the bar because a regular screw doesn't draw the boards together.

@fomoco300k

2 жыл бұрын

3 hours to make a set of saw horses?!?

You can, but you have to have a washer that prevents the wedge (countersink) from chewing.

Woah! I had never even considered this!

What about a regular countersink screw through an M4 washer to give a shoulder?

Other screws work fine if you put a small washer on them first.

I have used regular wood screws in pocket holes without issue dozens of times....

Good to know!! I had no idea! Thank you, Steve!

Now that it's explained I'm sure Mathias will start using pocket hols!

Didn't mention the reason regular screws don't work: The underside of the head is bugle shaped, which draws it into the shoulder of the pocket hole and spreads the wood fibers outward, causing the split. The flat bottomed head on PH screws provides a positive stop for the screw when it contacts the shoulder of the pocket hole.

@turningpoint6643

2 жыл бұрын

Not all screw heads have that taper. They also make what are generally referred to as pan head screws with a flat bottom face on the screw head. Those driven into a board face would protrude above the wood. With pocket holes that's not an issue. Plus those pan heads are designed to spread the load out over the full diameter of the head and where they seat against the wood surface. Exactly what you'd want with pocket hole joinery. And the pan head screw design has been around a whole lot longer than pocket hole joinery has. Use the correct screw head design for the job there properly designed to do.

use a pan head screw instead of a countersink screw, or a wafer head screw if it fits.

I helped build my friend's basement with regular screws in pocket holes (don't ask why we needed to use pocket holes). It can be done, it's just not the most ideal. It worked fine for us because we were using 2x4's and had plenty of space to the edge of the board.

@wilbertbirdner1303

2 жыл бұрын

why did you need to use pocket holes?

@dannytonnessen6896

2 жыл бұрын

@@wilbertbirdner1303 haha you beat me to up! LoL 😆 Come on OP hurry up haha we want the story, don’t just leave us hanging 😝

I've used cabinet screws with my jig when I couldn't get pocket screws at my local store. They work about as well and have held up.

Yes normal screws work, just don't use an impact driver and/or a whole lot of force to try and destroy your wood piece... wtf 😅

@ZeoCyberG

2 жыл бұрын

He was just driving the point in that it won't be a strong joint if you don't use the proper screw. Doesn't matter whether it happens right away when you drive the screw in or later when the joint fails because you used the wrong screw... It's going to fail!

@dj1NM3

2 жыл бұрын

Also, don't put the pocket on the extreme edge of the board. The side will blow out, as shown in this video. Obviously, countersink head screws are also a bad choice.

@christophepaquot3562

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, he slammed the screw in there.

@ZeoCyberG

2 жыл бұрын

​@@christophepaquot3562 Not really, he used the same impact to drive the pocket screw. There was just no resistance with the regular screw because it was splitting the wood. Besides, doesn't change the point that it makes the joint weaker when you use the wrong screw and that will cause it to fail, regardless of whether that happens right away or later when a load is put on the joint. Seriously, it's not like we don't have to worry about regular screws splitting wood all the time. It's why we avoid edges and pre-drill... Wood is especially weak along the grain and that's where most pocket holes are placed...

@gregmize01

2 жыл бұрын

Um...

I use normal wood screws and drywall screws in pocket holes all the time. Drywall screws work better through if you over tighten any screw it will crack the wood.

I've found myself using pocket screws in places where I used to use regular screws because of the square drive head and the way they clamp the pieces together.

Thanks! I'm a fan since a longtime now. This is some great content. As a rockie these are the kind of questions I have and when we try something and doesn't work we wonder why and how to make it work.

I managed to split the wood in my project, even with real kreg screws!

I add a small washer to the regular screw a lot cheaper than pocket hole screws.

In a pinch, I’ve used cabinet screws…. Not a cheap way though, just to save me the extra trip to the hardware store

Thumbs up for the conciseness, that's been missing too much on youtube videos

I add a washer and works.

That’s a badass Jason Vorhees picture bro

The more you know! Thanks :)

I use pocket hole screws for everything. They clamp pieces together like a deck screw never could.

@MrClarkisgod

2 жыл бұрын

I used them to build kitchen cabinets. I could stand on the shelves at 225 lbs. I will never again talk smack about pocket screws.

I really love these shorts!

Aw man I should’ve known that BEFORE I made those connections, lol

I believe these are called pan head screws.

Dude… thank you. Your videos are so helpful and informative. You explain things so well, and it’s been extremely helpful for me.

Just don't drive the screw in so hard. You can split the wood up with a pocket hole screw like you did with a regular screws

I enjoy the lack of commentary after the regular screw fail. It really says it all. You’re the man Steve!

I thought you were noticeably more aggressive with the screwing with the standard screw, but I got the point. I note the information regarding washers below.

It’s not at all recommended but if you must you can drive a regular screw in super slow. Maybe even finish it off with a screw driver so that you don’t split anything. But still even then the shape of the screw won’t provide the same holding power.

@Kalebshadeslayer

2 жыл бұрын

works in a pinch and town is an hour away.

@sanderd17

2 жыл бұрын

Adding a correctly sized washer would also do the trick I guess.

Never seen those funky square Canadian screw heads in Europe.

Another great short video. I have noticed people suggestions on ways to use regular screws, maybe you can test them out?

This is like the infomercial where the lady hits a hole in the drywall and then looks at the hammer surprised after it gouged a huge hole in the wall. Regular screw probably would’ve sufficed if you hadn’t torqued it so hard

I am not sure why but I am not getting notified of many of your videos even though I am subscribed and have the bell set to all. Any ideas why?

@Maxid1

2 жыл бұрын

I heard that Steve doesn't like you .. (I'm kidding incase you can't tell.) Unsub and resub. Sometimes that fixes it.

@dougggiereid

2 жыл бұрын

@@Maxid1 hahaha. Many thanks will try that

@Maxid1

2 жыл бұрын

@@dougggiereid did it work?

@dougggiereid

2 жыл бұрын

@@Maxid1 yes it did!

Regular screws especially don't work when you make sure the "hammer" function on your driver engages instead of using some restraint. Also, I can't say for sure but I am pretty sure he used a regular drill on the pocket screw and a driver on the regular screw.

As a DIYer who knows next to nothing of carpentry, what I've always done is use a small bit to drill the pilot hole, and then use a bigger bit that is the diameter of the screw head to drill the pocket hole. The taper on the end of a standard twist drill bit matches the taper of a standard wood screw head close enough. 🤷🏻‍♂️ If you screw it down most of the way with a drill and put the final tension torque on it by hand with a screwdriver, no splits and the joint is tight. It's definitely clear why a tapered head screw in a flat bottomed pocket hole will cause a split like is shown.

I was wondering about that! 🙌🏼

It works if ya use Truss head screws :)

I’ve used deck screws for years and never had an issue unless you torque it too high.

Pro tip ... Get a six inch long 1/8 drill bit and predrill the whole before sinking the screw. This will stop the screw from walking on you.

Try with a washer on the screw. I think I saw Jay Bates do it once on like a lumber rack.

Saved me issues!

When you run out of pocket screws use a washer to fix the trumpet shape spiting the wood.

Instead of paying almost double for "pocket hole" screw you can just buy generic pa head screws.

Man, during that little pause after blowing the side out of the board, I could almost hear the litany of cuss words I would spout.

I actually prefer regular screws. I'm just gentle when I'm screwing it. I feel it's stronger than the pocket hole screws and I hate the little "square" head. Love your content. I've learned so much from you.

@mannys9130

2 жыл бұрын

The square head and the torx head are sooooooo much better than the Phillips or flat head. Both of the latter have serious cam-out problems. Phillips head fasteners drive me fucking insane. I hate them so much. I love torx. I've never had a torx cam out, and I feel that they're harder to strip out and round than Allen head fasteners are. If I could snap my fingers and switch torx as the most common, widely used bit and socket type like Phillips currently is, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Did I mention I love torx?

@susyqscraftylife2422

2 жыл бұрын

@@mannys9130 is that the "star" ones? Because that's what I use. I also hate Phillips

How about the other way around? Are there reasons to avoid using pocket screws for non-pocket joints?

@jjohnston94

2 жыл бұрын

The heads are kind of small in diameter and thick, so they look like tiny hockey pucks. If you want them flush with the surface, you have to drill a flat-bottomed counterbore. Otherwise, I can't think of anything.

@davidalan6701

2 жыл бұрын

@@jjohnston94 I’m just working on a piece of shop furniture that’s just plain not gonna be pretty, and I already have 500 pocket hole screws because I’m going to be using mostly pocket hole joints, but there are a couple spots where I’ll join face to face. I figured it’d be fine, I just wondered if there was going to be an issue I wasn’t thinking of.

@jjohnston94

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidalan6701 You could always use the pocket hole drill bit to drill a shallow counterbore.

@davidalan6701

2 жыл бұрын

@@jjohnston94 that’s a good idea!

@joshuamurphy5073

2 жыл бұрын

Aesthetics mainly, all else equal. They probably don't have quite the shear strength of some other screws with thicker shafts relative to head size. They corrode in treated wood unless you get the coated ones...I buy them in bulk for household and shop projects.

i always use 'normal' screws. but i use them with a 'm4' washer, works perfect and super cheap.

i would have gone all in, cranked it in like that and said "yep, they work!"

I've used deck screws in pocket holes a thousand times and never had this happen.

I'm amazed at the folks who will spend thousands of dollars equipping their shops with the "best" tools, buy expensive exotic woods for their projects, and then complain about the cost of a few dozen pocket screws. 😖

Holy shit, I didn't know that! Glad I never bought a pocket hole jig 😬

I've used drywall, wood, sheet metal, and even tapcon type screws in pocket holes. It all depends on the situation. Most of the time I skip the pocket hole screws over all because I don't need the function. I just need the screw to act as a metal dowel. The glue does the rest.

Yeah it's gonna split when you drive the screw in with the force of a Mack truck behind it.

Never had a problem using regular screws before, but I also use 3/4 in or thicker wood material for them. I rarely use 1/2 with pocket holes

Or a panhead or the myriad of other designs that feature a flat face to grab the timber

The right screws are cheap enough, but I've thought about trying cabinet screws, just to satisfy my curiosity.

You are forgetting the MOST important reason these work to pull the other board tight to it. Its because the neck of the screw that has no threads on it. This allows the screw to turn but not want to deepen into the first board while tightening the other board to it. This is really important to know in carpentry how screws work. This is also why the normal screw in the video wanted to dig deeper plus the shoulder of that screw acts like a wedge.

Though it's not recommended, regular screws can work but definitely not as effective haha.

I work as a Carpenter and use regular screws every day with pocket holes. No problems.

But there are lots of "regular" screws with larger flat heads.

I use normal screws all the time and never use the KREG screws. So I beg to differ with you Steve. I have had no problem using regular screws with 3 or 4mm heads which I can buy cheaply from any hardware store.

@SteveRamsey

2 жыл бұрын

That's great! 👍

I must say as convenient as pocket hole joinery is I've only ever had problems while using it and a simple mortice and tenon works much better. I mean once you know how to do it it's very hard to mess up

So, any pan head screw will work?

I learned this the hard way.

What if the screw you are trying to put in isnt countersunk?

Why vertical video? WHY???

@SteveRamsey

2 жыл бұрын

Lie on your side...then it will be horizontal! 😄

If try a different wood screw I believe the other screw you had was self drilling it keeps going.

I miss the project videos.

I don't use a special pocket hole bit. I make the stepped hole myself. Have no issues using normal screws. :-p

@SteveRamsey

2 жыл бұрын

You're awesome!

@hirukarucm1133

2 жыл бұрын

@@SteveRamsey far from the pocket holes look bad. And not as nice and hidden. But if the project does not require nice finish then it is possible. Else i assume a pocket hole screw with the correct bit will be better. Love the videos and tips you give to all of us.

I use regular wood screws. Pocket hole screws are too expensive

So why are we still using Philips style and flat head? His style was like a box or a hex-ish style.

What if you just don’t tighten it to the point of splitting the board???

Regular drywall screws do work, tho. I made a dresser and bookshelf with pocket holes and use them very regularly, especially my dresser, and they’re not loose, split, or damaged in any way.

Yes

What about a panhead screw?

Ryobi FTW!

Pocket hole screws are so expensive. I use regular wood screws for pocket holes. Yes it does split the wood but you have to work your way around it.

But what’s with the devil baby?

I understand your point but a regular screw will work if you don’t over screw it😂

Had you stopped driving the screw in, it could do the job. You can take a pocket hole screw and do the same damage if you drive it that hard

I don’t have a pocket hole jig. I needed something to raise a cabinet up a few inches, so I used four 2x4’s to make a base to set the cabinet on. The screws aren’t really experienced much stress though. They’re just holing they boards together until I could set the cabinet on them. It doesn’t look high end or anything, but I wasn’t going for that. I just wanted to throw together something that would work for now.

Now I know thanks youtube

Spax Waferhead screws and turn the clutch almost all the way down. 😬