Maybe I just need a bigger turbine? Purpetual motion is always just out of reach...

@Rick_Cavallaro

Жыл бұрын

Perpetual motion is always just out of reach, but wind energy is not. So you're quite right that you can't get a net benefit from the relative wind you create from the vehicle's motion, but you can make it work on a windy day.

@fooboomoo

Жыл бұрын

Veritasium did a great video on that

@us1ng

Жыл бұрын

wat if u put two windmills sideways vertically on both sides of the car sorta like a wings of a car

@1islam1

Жыл бұрын

@@Rick_Cavallaro 👉🔴What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus? Muslims respect and revere Jesus (peace be upon him). They consider him one of the greatest of God’s messengers to mankind. The Quran confirms his virgin birth, and a chapter of the Quran is entitled ‘Maryam’ (Mary). The Quran describes the birth of Jesus as follows: (Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be). God creates what He wills. If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Quran, 3:45-47) Jesus was born miraculously by the command of God, the same command that had brought Adam into being with neither a father nor a mother. God has said: The case of Jesus with God is like the case of Adam. He created him from dust, and then He said to him, “Be!” and he came into being. (Quran, 3:59) During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles. God tells us that Jesus said: “I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission. And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses....” (Quran, 3:49) Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. It was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said: ...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157) Neither Muhammad nor Jesus came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in one God, brought by earlier prophets, but rather to confirm and renew it.

@MelodicTurtleMetal

Жыл бұрын

Magnets! You need to implement magnets. Somewhere, somehow, magnets are always the answer.. Maybe if we coat the car in the right plastic, the air flowing over it will produce enough static energy to power an electro-magnet which we can use to spin the blades!

You're the teacher that knows the subject well and can create a moment of appreciation for it out of thin air. Also you're a true scientist and open to test "ridiculous" ideas using the "scientific method". Your content is great! Keep up🎉

@WIZ56575

Жыл бұрын

see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies. What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work. So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated: Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them. In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph. In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge. In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge. However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds. It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine. Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.

@d4slaimless

Жыл бұрын

@@WIZ56575 Actually, you just need to watch the video and make your own conclusion. Some things in this video are debatable. However what is true in it is that you can't make a car that would be moving by the power that is generated by the wind when the wind is only the result of a car moving itself. The examples that you give are for the cars that use the wind of an outside source (wind caused by natural phenomena). And this is of course possible.

@WIZ56575

Жыл бұрын

@@d4slaimless Again what I've been telling everyone this is an old technology it's already been proven it's already been done and I have to keep giving people information like this, there are a few cars that were built with turbines within the body of cars to produce any type of energy. Here are a few examples: Chrysler Turbine Car: This experimental car was produced by Chrysler from 1963-1964. It was powered by a turbine engine that could run on any type of fuel, including gasoline, diesel, kerosene, and even vegetable oil. The car was not commercially successful, but it is considered a milestone in the development of alternative fuel vehicles. Rover JET1: This car was produced by Rover in the early 1960s. It was also powered by a turbine engine, but it was designed for racing rather than for everyday use. The car was not very successful, but it helped to pave the way for the development of more advanced turbine-powered cars. Toyota Fine- 1: This car was produced by Toyota in the late 1980s. It was powered by a small turbine engine that was used to generate electricity to power the car's electric motors. The car was not commercially successful, but it was considered a testbed for Toyota's hybrid electric vehicle technology. These are just a few examples of cars that were built with turbines within the body of cars to produce any type of energy. While these cars were not all commercially successful, they helped to pave the way for the development of more advanced turbine-powered cars that are now being developed by automakers around the world.

@crabby7668

Жыл бұрын

@@WIZ56575 the examples you give here are gas turbines (jet engines) not wind turbines as in your original Post. The gas turbine is an internal engine to the vehicle just just as a diesel engine would be. These are a completely different situation to mounting a wind turbine on a vehicle..

@williambreen1001

Жыл бұрын

Jokes on you, ..windmill powered vehicles(whether land or sea) are all things that are actually possible, and have already been demonstrated. Note the equation Power = Force x Speed, ..and it's easy enough to see how it's entirely possible. That is, the input medium must be at the greater velocity relative to the vehicle, and the output reaction medium must be at a lower relative velocity to the vehicle.

In the 1990's an aerospace company had an idea to add a "windmill" at each wingtip of a transport airplane. The windmill would be at the trailing edge of the wing tip and would take energy from the wing tip vortex--the vortex is the result of the wing generating lift and is always present if there is lift. The vortex creates drag--that's why modern Boeing and Airbus airliners have winglets on the tips of the wing. A windmill could absorb some of this vortex which would reduce drag AND the windmill, tied to an electric generator, could feed power to the aircraft electrical system to power seat back screens, for example. Not perpetual motion, but a reduction in overall energy consumed. Perhaps a windmill in the right location on a specifically design auto could have the same benefit?

@Ides385

Жыл бұрын

That is specific to wing design. The wing tips cause issues and you must break up the air. It's probably more efficient overall to just use a better design than a prop. Otherwise you'd see every plane with a prop there. Even if it's close, not worth the extra weight or complexity. As far as a car, you don't have anything near the speeds or desings of airplane wings to even think about it.

@enlightenthebenighted8735

Жыл бұрын

Maybe in a spoiler to also create downforce.

@greg77389

11 ай бұрын

Not practical. You can instead use specific wingtips that make the vortices work in your favor and can actually counteract drag.

@sixstanger00

9 ай бұрын

Commercial aircraft do employ a small emergency power unit that deploys in case of a loss of electrical power. It's a small fan that pops out from under the fuselage and generates electricity from the wind - just enough to keep their flight instruments working.

@keepcalmandfarmon5401

9 ай бұрын

@@sixstanger00 Yes--good point. In fact, Sundstrand Aerospace, the same company that designs and manufactures the emergency power units (aka RATs...Ram Air Turbine) that you describe, also did some work on the vortex/wing tip generators.

Quint BUILDs made a full size test rig similar to this. You guys should collaborate being so local to one another!

@ZartaxtheWise

Жыл бұрын

And his rig did create a net positive compared to no windmill. So he increased the range.

@stefanmelich9886

Жыл бұрын

​@@ZartaxtheWise It was a different scenario, he attached the turbine in front of the car, so he didn't increase the frontal area of the car, which creates drag. So in that case it might work

@dannybrennan31

Жыл бұрын

That was the first thing I thought when I saw this video

@maxpayne2574

Жыл бұрын

@@stefanmelich9886 No because the drag is due to the energy used to turn the blades. If he got to net zero either his meter was wrong or he was lying. It's imposable

@MelodicTurtleMetal

Жыл бұрын

@@maxpayne2574 in the right conditions (extreme wind) you could end up net positive. Though you'd get even further if you just charged from standstill and then removed the fan.. and if such conditions were so common you'd be better off with a deployable sail..

I think the veritasium faster than the wind buggy (also sailboats) have some relevance to this subject. I.e. we can extract useful energy from the wind given the correct setup. But on a windless day you won't move.

@Rick_Cavallaro

Жыл бұрын

Correct. This is a good video, but he was mistaken when he said it won't work even on a windy day.

@Lucius_Chiaraviglio

Жыл бұрын

@@Rick_Cavallaro He could be right, if the wind turbine and generator and DC voltage conversion aren't all that efficient. In particular, the generator produces a voltage too high for the battery, and so even if the turbine and generator were fairly efficient (possible but not a sure bet for something marketed as a scam), an awful lot of energy might be lost right there. It is possible to make a good DC-to-DC voltage converter, but I suspect that a cheapo remote-controlled car won't have a good one.

@Rick_Cavallaro

Жыл бұрын

@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio >> He could be right, if the wind turbine and generator and DC voltage conversion aren't all that efficient. But that's not what he said. He said it can't even work on a windy day - and it definitely can. Sure you can come up with a system that's too inefficient to work, but what does that tell you?

@Lucius_Chiaraviglio

Жыл бұрын

@@Rick_Cavallaro What I mean is that he might be right about it not working on a windy day if the system is inefficient enough that the drag when the wind is enough to give enough power for this is enough to prevent the car from moving and/or forces it to use more energy than it gets. I don't think he made it that way on purpose, but when using cheap components, it might end up that way.

@Rick_Cavallaro

Жыл бұрын

@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio That's not what he said.

I wasn't necessarily expecting a wind powered vehicle, per se. I think what I was more interested in was whether this could operate the same way that brakes do in electric cars--braking doesn't allow you to drive an electric car indefinitely, it simply increases your mileage sightly by allowing some of the energy regained from braking to recharge the battery.

@rodericklenz5030

Жыл бұрын

But would that add anything more than the regen braking already does? Or would it decrease it's effectiveness by losing momentum to the air-resistance and rotation of the fan?

@fishyerik

Жыл бұрын

@@rodericklenz5030 A wind turbine can not be nearly as efficient for regeneration as using the motors as generators. Also, the motors are already there, no extra hardware needed.

@Ides385

Жыл бұрын

The key to regenerative breaking is that it takes advantage of waste heat. Friction that just creates wasted energy as heat in a normal car. The wind over your car is not wasted energy. You must create that to move. If you try to take away from it your car jut has to work harder.

@rodericklenz5030

Жыл бұрын

@@Ides385 that's not actually how regenerative braking works with EVs, in fact EV braking works quite differently to braking for an ICE vehicle. You can't use friction to arrest the motion of an electric motor. All that actually does is decreases the resistance of the coils and increases their current draw. If you arrest it to the point where the spindle can't rotate at all, the motor effectively becomes a short-circuit, which is bad. And if no power is being transmitted to the motor when you arrest it, you've still got a conductor moving through a changing magnetic field, which will induce current, which is bad. EV regenerative breaking works by "reversing" the circuit and using the motors as generators, directly converting the momentum of the vehicle into electrical energy. Due to conservation of energy, converting momentum to electrical energy means momentum is "lost" and the vehicle slows down. If you're here watching the action lab, I'm sure you've seen videos of magnets being dropped through copper tubes and floating spookily down. This is the same principle. Now the caveat to this is that this kind of braking only works at relatively higher speeds and can't bring a vehicle to a complete stop, so once an EV slows to the point where gravity, friction, momentum, and electrical energy coming out of the motor are at equilibrium the car won't slow any further. At this point EVs DO use friction brakes to bring the car to a complete stop and lock the wheels, but these are at speeds low enough where it won't damage the motor or it's control circuit. (Sources: I'm an electrical engineer and worked on regenerative braking systems in my postgrad year).

@rodericklenz5030

Жыл бұрын

@@fishyerik Yes, the purpose of my question was to prompt the OP to think about these things.

This is an awesome analysis! Thank you for your experiments and demonstrations!👏

@XRiftGaming

Жыл бұрын

Ur right

@DukeEllision329

Жыл бұрын

Did you even watch the video?

@XRiftGaming

Жыл бұрын

Yes I did

@XRiftGaming

Жыл бұрын

Rolls eyes

@WIZ56575

Жыл бұрын

see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies. What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work. So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated: Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them. In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph. In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge. In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge. However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds. It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine. Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.

Surely doing this produces more drag so it is more inefficient

@FunnyCODAssasin

Жыл бұрын

wow u watched the video too? ur so genius

@jharmley6882

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but it can recharge when it sit still therefore it's more efficient in the long run.

@jeffomalley6015

Жыл бұрын

Lol ya thats what he said.

@ZartaxtheWise

Жыл бұрын

It depends. You can gain energy if the car aerofynamics are shit from the start and you put the turbine in frobt of the vehicle instead of on the roof.

@engredz

Жыл бұрын

Plus weight of generator

You should try testing this with a crosswind and the windmill facing the crosswind to see what difference it makes.

@Zaros262

Жыл бұрын

Seems less efficient than just throwing a sail on your car and using the power directly

Sorry, you cannot, in this house we accept the thermodynamics laws. The energy generated by the turbine comes from the movement of the car and this is coming from gasoline or car battery and even worse, the increased drag from the turbine increases the fuel/battery consumption.

Awesome video! I thinks it’s very cool that you uploaded a new experiment based on inspiration from responses to your prev video.

I love the real world applications you create.

The one thing that could maybe make sense is having a car batter charged by a wind turbine while parked, assuming the turbine is put away while driving. This is the same idea as the new Prius that has a solar panel on the roof - it’s not nearly enough power to keep you going while driving, but it is enough to add some modest mileage while parked in the sun for hours

@robinsss

6 ай бұрын

what if there is no wind?

@JUMANE30

5 ай бұрын

@@robinsssthey’ll wheel you out since you seem to be full of it😂😂😂

Very informative ❤

Excellent work using an experiment to dispel the confusion!

0:59 - I love you, Action Lab. We need a super-cut of every surprize in the library.

Now there's a case to be made for adding windmills to electric or hybrid vehicles, to recharge their batteries while they're parked. Sure, it might not be a lot of charge, but it could be used to cool down the vehicle while it's sitting in the sun, or to slowly recharge it in a grid-down scenario like if the power is down due to a blizzard. Adding a small solar panel and a small wind turbine to vehicles, which would fold down when not in use, would help with that, even if it's providing barely enough power to keep the fans going while it's hot and sunny outside, or barely enough to charge your phone to make emergency calls.

Great analogy ! Of course i knew the increased air resistance is exactly the problem of adding a wind mill on a car. Well explained ! I like the fact that you don't actually just say it's fake right from start and you actually build a sort of tension.

@bulletclub4life

Жыл бұрын

you become a sail which hurts eco because the energy you do gain back will be reused on top of more energy for you to move. lol

You do such a great job 👏🏻 thanks man

Nice demonstration and explanation.

But you could use your fan/generator as a sail :) ( Weelll a sail would work better.... ) Veritasium did a video on this where his design of a land sail boat travels faster than the wind.

@WIZ56575

Жыл бұрын

see that quite a few people are giving you a thumbs up. Keep in mind this little technique: if your phone goes down to one bar and you plug it in and you are still using the phone, your phone will fully charge. This is called pass-through technology. If you do research on this, you will find that if this was applied, you wouldn't have those inefficiencies. What did I just do? I just used a technology that's been used for quite some time, instead of doing everything directly. It means that for over a 100 years, we've been off the direct power train and got on Nikola Tesla's alternating technology. As soon as you start to understand exactly how you can power something at the same time use its power, you can make this work. Of course, other companies and other people have already done this and got the car in real life to actually work. So instead of arguing back-and-forth with the guy who I believe is prejudiced on certain subjects, I simply went to Google AI and asked the question. Here is what AI stated: Yes, there are a few examples of people who have successfully driven cars with windmills attached to them. In 2009, a team of students from the University of Michigan built a car that was powered by a wind turbine. The car was able to reach speeds of up to 35 mph. In 2010, a team of students from the University of California, Berkeley built a car that was powered by a solar panel and a wind turbine. The car was able to travel 100 miles on a single charge. In 2011, a team of students from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology built a car that was powered by a wind turbine and a hydrogen fuel cell. The car was able to travel 200 miles on a single charge. However, it is important to note that these cars are not practical for everyday use. They are very expensive to build and maintain, and they are not very efficient. The wind turbines are only able to generate enough power to move the car at slow speeds. It is more likely that wind power will be used to supplement the power of a car's engine, rather than be used to power the car entirely. This could be done by using wind turbines to generate electricity that is stored in a battery, and then using that electricity to power the car's engine. Please start asking questions before accepting information from someone that is intelligent but often makes quite a few mistakes. Even if you have to go to AI and didn't back it up with actually going to websites that show the results of people's accomplishments, if not then we can't move forward. We stay the same and people like that don't want real change. Read it for yourself before you give thumbs up.

@KaiseruSoze

Жыл бұрын

@@WIZ56575 To say "powered by wind turbine" isn't enough information. You can do it. But, considering power loses, does it make sense? A system has several inputs and outputs. When you add them up, it doesn't make sense - with respect to the alternatives.

Keep in mind that voltage you measure is with the generator unloaded, which is a VERY different situation than when it's loaded, i.e. actually using power

@DoubleBob

Жыл бұрын

Can you elaborate? I have too little knowledge about electricity to understand your comment.

@joshg6491

Жыл бұрын

​@@DoubleBob load means what it's generating is being used ie a motor. Vs unloaded meaning nothing is taking power from it

@joshg6491

Жыл бұрын

​@Double Bob like in an old house when you turn on a vacuum the lights dim for a second

@charlieangkor8649

Жыл бұрын

Imagine it's a difference between running without anything and running while pulling a semi truck. You wil be slower. Because the friction in the semi truck wheels draws energy from you.

@Zaros262

Жыл бұрын

​@@DoubleBob It's like riding a bike downhill. Just because you can go fast when it's easy doesn't mean you can keep that up when it gets difficult

Oh yeah, and wind resistance; I forgot that. Thanks for another great video, James!

I literally have been spending the last few months designing this specific tech

I think it might be possible to get a small amount of energy by using a turbine in the vortex behind a car. It might also have an added benefit of disrupting the low pressure drag behind the car. I think a small diameter paddle wheel the width of a trunk on the edge of the trunk might work.

@mr-x-003

8 ай бұрын

no, if you put something between the vortex, the vortex won't be produced

wasnt there a veritasium video about a vehicle that was 100% powered by wind

@DukeEllision329

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but you could only really drive in super windy areas where the wind is blowing in front of you.

@mahadevparmekar2565

Жыл бұрын

Haven't you heard about sail-ships? Wind-powered vehicles predate engine-powered vehicles by centuries.

@BooBaddyBig

Жыл бұрын

It is possible, and has been done, but it's not terribly practical.

That video stabilization was cool

Thanks for posting

I got this idea, Bernoulli's principle is the faster a fluid move, the lower the pressure. What if we put a turbine facing perpendicular to the direction of the moving direction and placed partially inside a car (only the face of the fan is visible outside). When the car moves, the air around the car will be moving fast, thus a lower pressure compare to the atmosphere. The difference in pressure will spin the turbine without creating much resistant, right?

@wmaconick

Жыл бұрын

wouldn't be the same issue only in a more complex setup? Any fluid perturbation you are doing that will power your fan will be caused by the car moving itself which mean the energy dissipated to create that vortex will always be greater than the energy you will be able to extract and you will end up with a less efficient car The design might be better at extracting energy from ambient wind though (especially if it doesn't require a specific direction for the wind to blow) so maybe an option for recharging battery on an e-car while parked (though you would need to leave on a very windy place for it to be worth)

@FunnyCODAssasin

Жыл бұрын

driving with the windows open creates drag

@AnonymousFreakYT

Жыл бұрын

But then you won't generate much power. You can't have free energy. To get energy from the wind mill, you have to add more power to overcome the added drag. To put it simply - the "wind" that drives the windmill is directly "created" by moving the car forward. Thus any power created by the spinning windmill has to be put into the system from the car's battery in the first place. You can use something like this to take advantage of wind in the environment (as he says in the video) but it would take very strong wind to be at all useful. And if you were trying to use this on a full size car for people, the windmill would have to be large, and the drag at freeway speeds would be far more than any possible benefit (unless you were driving in hurricane force ambient winds.)

@ZartaxtheWise

Жыл бұрын

​@@AnonymousFreakYT You can create a design that reduces the energy required by the vehicle by putting the turbine in front of the vehicle. This would not be windmill powered but rather i crease efficiency through the windmill.

@PAA-ne3pc

Жыл бұрын

I think this way the propellers will generate a huge turbulence inside the car that will induce almost the same amount of drag as if u placed it perpendicularly, also this way the momentum of the car will be deducted from the momentum of the propellers cuz now they are moving on the same axis of motion but in opposite directions

My long time idea has been proved ineffective 😅and i am very much happy for that as i have learnt now the result of it. 🙂 Thank you very much for your experiments are keep on increasing curiosity to people all around the world, literally 🙏🏻

@WunderWhile

11 ай бұрын

It couldnt create a perpetual motion machine cause that's impossible but I think it can be tuned to maybe slightly increase mileage. Would it be practical/worth it? Probably not

in last video i commented for fun never tought that would inspire you to make such video thanks for your care and understanding keep on rocking

Quint Builds made a scaled up version of this sometime last year, it's a great video

I always wonder if we can do this, like adding wind turbines, adding solar panels on top, using a motor generator that can be added to wheels, thermal to electriciry convertor near the hot end of engine and still etc... 😅

@thekaxmax

9 ай бұрын

yeah, nah. :P

actually if there is enough wind it is possible to extract enough energy from the wind to move the car, even going against the wind. A few madmen built a working prototype, veritassium has a video on it. It shouldn't be too surprising, as that's how sailboats work

@comasmusica7548

Жыл бұрын

Yes, indeed. Saw the video.

@Spencergolde

Жыл бұрын

The blackbird concept vehicle in that veritasium video was moving downwind, not against the wind. With tacking, sailboats/sailcraft can sail tangentially, but not directly upwind. The angles against the wind which can't physically be sailed against is known as the "no sail zone". That is to say you cannot extract enough energy from a direct headwind to move forward.

@KekusMagnus

Жыл бұрын

@@Spencergolde No, it could move moving both downwind and upwind, they demonstrated both. The blades of the propeller are at an angle so they have the same motion relative to the wind as a sailboat sailing at an angle againd the wind

@nHans

Жыл бұрын

Veritassium wasn't trying to prove that a vehicle-powered by wind alone-can move _against_ the wind. In fact, he was trying to prove that a vehicle-powered solely by the blowing wind-can move _faster_ than the wind itself. He even won thousands of dollars in a bet against a university professor who said that's impossible.

@MelodicTurtleMetal

Жыл бұрын

It's the same thing discussed here though - you can't generate more power from the wind while you move than from the power the wind at standstill would create. In order to get the efficiency from the wind you just need to make the turbine more efficient than the ambient wind - the drag. Of course it's possible with the right conditions, but it's likely never worthwhile when all conditions are taken into account

I thought about that some weeks ago, and noted the idea down for further research. I forgot about that until I saw this video

*Timestamps for the video* Start: 0:00 End: 7:16

What about Veritasiums windmill dragster? I actually didn't fully understand the explanation. Would love to see you giving it a shot!

@kadmow

Жыл бұрын

"Engineering with Rosie" explained it fairly well - the wheels power the propeller (it isn't a wind turbine in this application), the whole thing begins by being blown downwind by drag (a popout "drag sail/flap" on the mast would increase this initially) - as the speed increases, so does the thrust developed by the propeller (RPM increasing linearly with speed, thrust will increase once a "critical RPM is reached), until zero apparent wind) The propeller produces thrust back against the prevailing wind leading to acceleration, even beyond the point of zero apparent wind experienced at the vehicle body. The equations balance out at "some terminal velocity" relative to the energy provided by the wind, where drag (from the now oncoming apparent wind) equals the total thrust available from the wind acting on the swept area of the propeller - with L/D ratio most likely exceeding 10 - the design was optimised for fairly low speeds, with a wide blade to get a "bigger bite " of the air.... (yes explanations can be tricky - no thermodynamics laws were broken there). The same craft (should be able) could go dead upwind too, not as fast however, there are videos of up-and back propeller land sailing on dykes in Holland.

There is another aspect I have always wondered though. All of these ideas assume adding it outside the airstream of the car like you did here. However, cars have a certain amount of drag without a turbine on them at all. I am wondering if you could size a turbine placed in front of the car in such a way that it equals the drag that the car would have felt but goes into the turbine instead and effectively recuperate some of the energy that was being lost to drag.

@ntsure2436

Жыл бұрын

There are very few areas of direct drag on modern cars, as most of them are streamlined to mitigate that, even the grille, which receives most of the perpendicular force. However, adding any turbines to those areas that DO have drag would increase the drag, as now there would be multiple surfaces causing friction, and the turbulence induced by the turbine would interfere with the streamlined airflow around the car, which was designed without the additional friction surfaces, and lead to further resistance rather than flowing smoothly around the car.

@chris993361

Жыл бұрын

@@ntsure2436 those are in fact all thoughts that have occurred to me and one day when I get bored maybe I'll do some fluid modeling and see if there's any way it makes sense. The flow coming out of the turbine being turbulent probably does mean it will just drag on the car anyway and increase the drag but I was curious.

@megamaser

Жыл бұрын

Maybe if you put it inside the vehicle where air is already being channeled behind the grill. Probably not a lot to be gained but it's theoretically possible.

@ntsure2436

Жыл бұрын

@@megamaser if it passes through the grille, then it eventually bounces against the radiator/engine/fender wells. Guys, it's the law of conservation of energy we're talking about here. You're not going to get something fpr nothing. Might as well try to build a perpetual motion machine.

@megamaser

Жыл бұрын

@@ntsure2436 It's not something for nothing. It's not perpetual motion. It's about improving aerodynamic efficiency. The energy that would be lost by deflecting air against the engine block can instead be partially recaptured by deflecting it first against a fan blade.

The only way to efficiently transfer energy from the wind to a vehicle is through a sail, which makes sense since it’s the simplest system for transference of wind energy.

Quint Builds did an awesome series of experiments on this very topic!

Great video! I think it could be stressed that as long as there is wind relative to the ground, and your machine is efficient enough, you can extract this energy at any velocity relative to ground and wind. For example sail boats can sail into the wind or downwind faster than the windspeed. If the turbine and car was well designed, most likely with a mechanical linkage for greater efficiency, you could do the same with the car. In fact, Veritasium has a video on just that - with a wind turbine driven cart that can be continuously propelled faster than the windspeed!

@arcanealchemist3190

Жыл бұрын

wasnt it in contention if it actually got faster than windspeed? i know its been years, maybe they've proven it went faster since then.

@ZartaxtheWise

Жыл бұрын

It's been proven. It's not very controversial once you understand how a sailboat actually works.

@Spencergolde

Жыл бұрын

The black bird concept cart can sail faster than the wind downwind, not against it. This is also true of sail boats. But sail boats, and black bird, cannot sail directly into a headwind, or at any angle in the "no sail zone". With tacking, you can beat to windward, but you can't do so directly. Likewise, you can't convert the relative wind experienced while moving forward into enough energy to move forward. The relative wind from motion is always a headwind, because you have direction with velocity

@chalichaligha3234

Жыл бұрын

​@@Spencergolde Sailboats cannot sail faster than the wind directly downwind nor sail directly upwind. The black bird wind turbine cart could in principle do both, it just wasn't shown going directly upwind as that wasn't the stated challenge. Rigorously, there is a mechanical explanation covered by Derek of Veritasium which extends to the directly upwind case. But to convince oneself that a wind turbine vehicle can move itself directly upwind, one can imagine a turbine cart geared to move upwind very slowly. The power required to do this would also be low because power is force x velocity, and so the turbine would clearly produce more than enough power to do this for some arbitrarily low speed.

Over unity machines never work... But maybe this time it will!

@residue-er5dooo

Жыл бұрын

*You don't know what you're talking about.*

@Urgleflogue

Жыл бұрын

@@residue-er5dooo Whooosh

@dingo4530

Жыл бұрын

@@residue-er5dooo that's a bold claim. Edit: he did not get the joke

@residue-er5dooo

Жыл бұрын

@@dingo4530 *When you have knowledge you can make them.*

@residue-er5dooo

Жыл бұрын

*Type in (sky news perpetual magnet generator). Then type in (free energy residue junkie)*

You can also attach a fan to a sail or a magnet attached to the front of the car.

Cool experiment!

At times when a car goes downhill, a windmill could be deployed to both keep the car's momentum from getting too high and to recharge the battery

@Spencergolde

Жыл бұрын

I think regenerative breaking is already too well established, uncomplicated and efficient to make this practical

@LaggerSVK

Жыл бұрын

why not make simple things extremely complicated and then complain about reliability. There is really no added benefit to add any windmill into a well aerodynamic tuned electric car that can regenerate. Its far more easier and net efficient to use wind turbines in a grid.

@MelodicTurtleMetal

Жыл бұрын

The cat would need to know how long the hill is, and the deployment and removal process would need to use less power than it might produce. It would probably be the complicated part of the car, add a huge cost, and be useless for 99.9% of the population

@BillionFires

Жыл бұрын

@@LaggerSVK I wasn't proposing this actually be done. It's just a thought experiment, which is what you do in science. This is basically what some hybrid vehicles do (although not with windmills). They recoup some of their kinetic energy during the braking process.

@BillionFires

Жыл бұрын

@@Spencergolde Yes, I agree. I don't think anyone seriously wants to put a windmill on a car. Just a thought experiment.

There was a Hybrid Renault a few years ago here in Europe that had wind turbines recharging the batteries with the wind when speeding up the car! I think it was a concept car because i can't remember seeing it. It was a genius idea, more cars should have it, alongside the kinetic ones.

@kingsolomon1841

Жыл бұрын

The 1st problem is that it’s a Renault

@fishingfan1500

Жыл бұрын

​@@kingsolomon1841 gold 😂

@Speeder84XL

Жыл бұрын

With the turbine placed right in front of the car and not make it larger than the frontal area of the car, this can actually save some energy. That's because some air that would otherwise just hit the car it self and contribute to nothing but drag, will now hit the turbine instead, where a part of it is retrieved as electric energy (which can then be used for a small electric motor that helps drive wheels and reduce fuel consumption - or for an electric car the generator output could simply help feed the motor/motors, so they pull slightly less current from the battery). But of course, the energy output from the turbine can never reach the same or exceed the total energy lost by drag - the car will always use more energy to overcome air resistance, than what's coming back from the turbine. But it could lower the energy consumption lost by drag slightly. I guess the savings are not so great that it's worth the added cost and complexity of building cars with wind turbines though. At least not when going at legal speeds in most countries (I guess those of who like to go fast and don't give a shit about speed limits would benefit more from it though, haha - smaller wind turbines can be made more efficient at high wind speeds and the energy lost to drag as well as the saving that could be made, goes up with the square of the speed)

@eekee6034

Жыл бұрын

Eww! I *hope* it was only a concept car, but even as a concept, I'd be ashamed to work for a company which produced such a thing.

Ive thought of this but i had no website to publish. at least you found out too,

Kinda similar thing exists for airplanes, called the ram air turbine, although it doesn't power propulsion, it's for providing power to the instruments and flight controls in an emergency.

its a energy converter only (like gasoline thruster to electric)

@Jkauppa

Жыл бұрын

try hot air (hot gas) as a fuel cell or battery gas state ion exchange salt/ion bridge

@Jkauppa

Жыл бұрын

it seems to work like a heat van de graaf generator, sparking an arc, it also spikes arc like a leyden jar capacitor, under the aluminium dome

@Jkauppa

Жыл бұрын

if you cant laser, or dont have conductive paint, then graphite pencil (for electroplating a conductive surface) works

@Jkauppa

Жыл бұрын

how about diy iron-copper(air) in copper sulphate in water solution battery about 1.1V, iron should be cheap to just put in a battery, as strips/sheet per kilogram, at 0.1$/kg (100$/kg-ton), reaction CuSO4+Fe->FeSO4+Cu (iron instead of zinc).

@Jkauppa

10 ай бұрын

solar concentration mirror over steel/plastic, silver acetate or copper acetate heating into mirror over steel plate

What if a car had solar panels on the roof? Would that help the battery to last longer? (Not indefinitely) but there wouldn’t be any extra air resistance?

@jimmosio

Жыл бұрын

Yes it would last longer, but it's not magic. The difference there, if I'm not mistaken, is that you're taking energy from the Sun's radiation, not the car. If you use the car's power to move the turbine, the car will have less energy to move and is going to be slower. With solar panels, you're using the Sun's power, and the car isn't exactly making the Sun brighter by moving, so the car siphons the Sun's energy for itself. Energy is being conserved in both cases, but in the latter case the energy is lost on the sunbeams' side alone

@volvo09

Жыл бұрын

Solar would work, but you'd need an entire roof of solar to make a couple hundred of watts. But we're talking like 1 percent of charge (or less) by leaving it somewhere in direct sun for a few days. It takes a lot of power to drive a car.

@Voyajer.

Жыл бұрын

Look at Aptera motors for an EV concept that is covered in solar panels. The practical problem with solar on a vehicle is the limit of surface area along with non-optimal positioning making the panels not contribute much. I still like solar on an EV from an emergency standpoint though, but its important to understand what you're actually getting out of them.

@TechNextLetsGo

Жыл бұрын

I built a solar powered toy car in middle school, no battery at all. Just place it in the sun and it goes.

@MelodicTurtleMetal

Жыл бұрын

More complicated than it sounds. It works, but for a lot of the users the vastly increased weight, and extra cost and complexity, makes in not worthwhile. For people who travel short distances to work, then leave the car in the sun all day, definitely a benefit. But for people who drive longer distances, or park their cars in a sheltered area, it becomes expensive and likely a reduction in energy from the weight. Someone mentioned on another post that any benefit you get is likely outweighed by the benefit you'd have simply putting a solar panel in the roof of your house to offset the cost of the charge at home. As a range extender for a long trip it wouldn't be worthwhile, and possibly less efficient considering the weight

Tnx for ur great effort and demonstration , also sorry for amazon seller , they got really negative advertise

I had thought of this concept too, I was thinking of trying it on a pedal bike, have the fan blades covering the cross section/areas that have to pass the airflow anyway, such as the front wheel, handle bars, the biggest restriction to the wind probably being the rider so maybe a fan duct and visor arrangement to cover that?

@Spencergolde

Жыл бұрын

Due to the Betz limit on the efficiency a turbine can operate at in a moving fluid, which is at most about 59.8%, you will never physically generate enough power to compete with a more aerodynamic shape which reduces overall drag. You are probably right that there would be a way to recapture some of the wasted drag force to reduce drag, but the turbine design isn't the way to do it. And again, you'd be hard pressed to find a means of competing with a simple aerodynamic profile, which has no moving parts or extra weight

@dav1dbone

Жыл бұрын

@@Spencergolde I believe Robert Murray Smith was working on a turbine design that appeared to operate beyond the Betz limit, not sure if it was backed up?

@Spencergolde

Жыл бұрын

@david bone I only know of Robert Murray Smith from his reputation as a KZread science breakthrough scammer, I would put very little faith in any claims coming from him. The Betz coefficient was calculated for the extraction of an idealized fluid moving through a cross section, but the underlying limit is just newtonian physics. If you extracted 100% of the energy from a fluid stream, it would come to a stand still, and you would then have fluid running into non-moving fluid, which would stop the stream. Another way of looking at it is that the stream backs-up, and can't supply more energy. The best engineers have spent decades perfecting today's wind turbines, which are only capturing ~70-80% of the Betz limit in ideal conditions

Maybe we could use a horizontal wind turbine that generates energy instead of a vertical one - for example, on the roof of a car, along with a special tunnel that would push air while driving, additionally generating downforce like a spoiler. But I guess it won't change anything. Super experiment.

I thought of this a couple years back, I thought to hide them inside the car, with little holes to allow wind the pass through, you could make one giant one to put on the roof or the bonnet

it's actually a good idea to put in in a bike to power a 💡. Although I don't know if it's less performing than the traditional friction model.

That RC looks cool

I have always wondered why cant we use fans or other things to power itself pls make a video on that.

Obviously, you can’t create a self sustaining reaction, thanks thermodynamics. However, this can work, Quint Builds did this, but with an important difference: use the fan in front, which then reduces the loses due to wind resistance. In essence, take the energy that would be lost from wind resistance, and convert it to some other form, electricity.

Have you ever heard of the blackbird? It's a vehicle design that is capable of moving faster than the wind pushing it. It's actually insane that it works at all.

As soon as I saw the title of this video, I knew exactly why you created it. There were way too many comments in the last video asking about this specific question that didn't understand that this violates the second law of thermodynamics.

@Rick_Cavallaro

Жыл бұрын

It only violates the 2nd law on a calm day.

@mike1024.

Жыл бұрын

@@Rick_Cavallaro MAYBE a talented engineer could work out some details to harness outside wind in the process, but I still think the drag from the car's own motion would overall reduce efficiency below the energy harvested.

@Rick_Cavallaro

Жыл бұрын

@@mike1024. >> MAYBE a talented engineer could work out some details to harness outside wind I DID. And I won 4 world records in the process.

@mike1024.

Жыл бұрын

@@Rick_Cavallaro I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I have a PhD in Mathematics and have definitely been around some people who do the seemingly impossible, leaving people mystified. I see you acknowledge it would require outside influences, which is the only thing necessary to not violate the second law of thermodynamics. I don't know a lot of physics, but I'd be curious to read your work if it is publicly accessible.

I would opt out and put a closed wind turbine on each side and the turbine would act as a constant charger! I would have loved this when I was in middle school as a project!

Thanks for doing this experiment for me ever since I thought of it as a 6 year old

Even those bicycle lights with the little generator that rides against the tire require extra force on the peddle to propel the bike forward. If you use the movement of the vehicle to provide additional power, there is a trade off.

True definition of free energy

for everyone who has been following this, it seems that the person in question didn't take into account the calculation of losses and didn't include a step-up mechanism to account for those losses. They attempted to do everything directly, but let me explain something: we don't even get direct energy from gasoline. It has to go through a process, and there are numerous losses in those processes that are often not discussed. Additionally, your car is only around 70% efficient, which is quite low. So, what would have been a better approach? One possibility is utilizing a car that runs on batteries. Here's an alternative method: take the windmill and use it to charge an independent battery. Then, you can switch back and discharge that battery while the other one is charging. It's essential to note that this is not the only technology available. There are other options such as using an air core and various other techniques to help mitigate the occurrence of backing EMF (electromotive force).

Have you tried adding a casing around the turbine to get some compression? And maybe add a second turbine.

With worm gearing that is geared low enough and driven by a tiny coreless motor, you could easily crawl forward into the very wind that is generating the power.

This was my 5th grade science project/ invention. I placed second. The egghead that beat me came up with an irrigation system that is now being used today. Kid was super smart. I didn't think mine even deserved 2nd. I was more impressed with the spinning spaghetti fork.

I've seen mainstream tv to show more than once someone demoing a perpetual motion machine as if the "inventors" were geniuses. I wish your video were shown in every journalism college worldwide.

Great invention👍

You can design the propeller that is more aerodynamic to decrease resistant. Also you can design it to have a solar roof as well so you are charging while parked with no wind.

It would be interesting to see what you could do with a sail on an RC, with the controls letting you adjust the trim on the sail. I'm surprised the fan was for a bike. It seems like a really complicated and fragile solution when you could design something that hooks directly to the pedal train.

@EwanMarshall

5 ай бұрын

So, and RC land yacht, which is a product on the market, you can also get full sized land yachts.

One way to reduce drag is that it can be installed along with radiator fan.

There are some cool car models that go against the wind wit a prop

try a vertical shaft wind generator. your head winds would work different with a cross breeze adding extra power into the system.

Will see this on the perpetual motion yt channel pretty soon!

I think photovoltaic cells more make sense.

wind , water and gravity, and the sun, thats all you really need 4 power, great post

Nice ride!

When I was watching the first of this video, I was thinking that I saw something like this last week and I need to go back and post this link. Wait...

Actuators on each fin of the fan. 90° reduce drag. Use momentum heavy.

Perpetual motion are perps for physics

Add a step up inverter between the variable output and the battery

i could see a change in the wheel size on the car, and lighten the car as much as possible. also a different turbine shape/size.

I was thinking about this for long.

Use dynamo motor or genrator motor it gives really good output

3:47 The windmill "powered" one was also slower as seen in the rate of ground covered by the RC cars

I feel like this could be optimized to extend range if the turbine was spun by aero under the car and through concentrated air intake channels. this combined with re-gen braking and solar panel implementation would heavily improve range, covering most commutes alone. of course the tech is new and improving, but I think their is some potential with all three. also if not with direct wind im sure someone can come up with a turbo like device that would spool up and discharge its energy through a drive. I guess the trick is to create a turbine with the most torque per rotation with the least amount of drag on its blades.

I actually done a theory about this for an english exam as an energy recovery system on a petrol powered car with a motor used for a Refillable Nos like speed boost in theory. Also added series of Dynamos to the prop shaft for more energy recovery

There's no such thing as free energy, the series lol

The subject is really tricky to explain well and not write off a bunch of engineers. I think you did good! Although a little bit more about drag's force relative to the entire mass of the machine would've probably cleared up some of the confusion I see in the comments. Alternatively, some people will worship their vehicles like children, so maybe you can only teach so much.

We can use wind mill but some changes .. place the wind mill behind the car opposite direction and air should come to the turbain through a air collecting hole from the frond of the car.. so car can easily go to front and the wind will go through the hole pipe to rotate the turbain...

Will it work if blades are facing upward towards sky.. some modification in blades needed.. will this create extra downforce which is beneficial for better ride and cornering.. just curious to know

The windmill creates drag because it makes the shape of the care bigger. Now what if you were to integrate the windmill directly in front of the car or something as to not create more drag surface but just use the already existing drag surface?

Can you try a bladeless windmill design or a foldable windmill that comes out when parked?

What happens if you have the windmill and you have a strong tail wind? Does the windmill act as an efficient sail with a tail wind?

I made one of these for my high school senior exit project in 2009.

now everything I learned in my physics class is starting to make sense

I've often thought about the amount of kinetic energy which exists when you see all these cars traveling down the highway, and if there was some way to harness just a small portion of that energy back into something useable. One idea I had was to have a series of pumps under a section of high traffic road. Attached to these pumps are steel plates which act as the road surface, as each vehicle drives over it depresses very slightly. To the driver it would just feel like a brief bump. The plates return to the upper position using springs. These pumps draw water from a lower reservoir and pump it into an upper reservoir. Once full, the upper reservoir is drained through a turbine which generates electricity.

@Joe-lb8qn

11 ай бұрын

The energy would come from the cars, which would end up with slightly worse efficiency. SInce there will be losses along the way, overall it will be worse than not having it.(absolute best with 100% efficiency, impossible, would be break even)

Depend of the configuration, you can use energy from wind, but your model is a inefficiency sinkhole for it.