Thank you for this video which corrects things a little more. There is a real dichotomy between the many teachings where we can hear that jhana bhavana is unnecessary and the fact we can see in a large amount of suttas where Buddha continually exhorts his disciples to practice jhana unlike the low occurrence of use of the word vipassana. The Buddha was very clear on this: to see things as they are, it is necessary for the mind to be concentrated; for it to be concentrated, the mind must be joyful; to be joyful, he must be calm; to be calm you need a way of living accordingly (sila). But not everyone fulfills, for the moment, the conditions for this (especially us Westerners!). It is not for nothing that the Tathagata compared beings to lotus flowers. What I mean is that if the Buddha insisted so much on jhanas - which is a practice that requires very specific conditions - this is for the simple reason that vipassana is a demanding praectice and requires a solid foundation, the jhanas are there for that. His teaching is wonderfully coherent but to want to teach vipassana to as many people as possible while ignoring the prerequisites is to deny the consistency of the Buddha (even if it starts with a good intention!). To conclude, I am not saying that we should absolutely not teach as many people as possible, but we must stop making people wrongly believe that jhanas are useless and that the development of the mind comes down ONLY to vipassana (ie. satippathana) by falsely claiming that the jhanas are not buddhist because they come from Indian culture while jhana of the pure form are an invention of the Buddha unlike the jhanas of the formless. It is not up to practice to lower ourselves, it is up to us to give ourselves the means to get there.

@bethupton1286

3 ай бұрын

Sadhu sadhu sadhu!

Thanks Beth. Happy to be working with you on this.

So grateful for your teachings! Thank you!

I had understood that first the shamata base is necessary for vipassana and then the levels of absorptions (jhanas) appeared, very important clarification! excellent your videos especially for the knowledge of Abhidhamma. thanks!

Thank you.

Hello Beth, this is again an excellent lecture and I am so glad someone like you exists. When I concentrate as closely as possible, as if with an internal microscope, on the sensation caused by breathing at the beginning of the nostrils and sometimes between the nose and the upper lip, the sensation is still straight as a line and continuous. But it's true that I can't concentrate on it for long without interruption, there's always some of those distractions. Would it be possible to estimate how long one must be able to concentrate intensely without error for the perception to begin to become discretized? Thank You Alesh

@karrimzz

2 жыл бұрын

@Mispan have you listened to Beth interview in Guru Viking?. She mentioned there of yogis who are trying too hard. Progress in samadhi should not come from effort but should come from stillness. You gain more refined sensitivity not by trying but because your mind is more still. And this also relate how you spend your time off cushion...

@mispanludensprinck5652

2 жыл бұрын

@@karrimzz Meido Roshi writes: "I often say the following to new students to illustrate the type of focus that the susokukan method initially requires. I have forgotten where I first heard it, so it is possible that it was stolen from one of my teachers. But perhaps you will find this illustration useful as I have: Imagine for a moment that you are walking across a tightrope over the Grand Canyon. Can you imagine how your awareness would remain with each step as you walk? It is likely that for you, at that moment, it would seem that nothing else in the universe exists apart from the placing of each step, one by one. In this same way, we should enter with all our being into counting each exhalation. Indeed, if we practice in this way with our whole existence-counting each breath as if it were our last act on this earth-we may well find ourselves sweating “white beads” with the intensity of our effort, as Hakuin said we must."

it's funny how this tame controversy is the closest us buddhists have to internet memes, we're so square this is an excellent answer, you show that you've penetrated the dharma,,, it must be annoying dealing w/ students in this environment, how do you manage it emotionally, i feel like i ought to teach students but, you know, ughh

@bethupton1286

2 жыл бұрын

I love my job 😇

I think that building up concentration has more "cutting power" to it, but I honestly don't feel like the kind of person who can meditate for hours a day, maybe because I don't find it so pleasant. When I hear the kind of training that people usually do (as I have heard from you on the times you got interviewed), I wonder if this path really suits me, if it demands so much time and effort. I'm thinking here things like mastery of the jhanas. 4 hours straight meditating? Jumping back and forth between jhanas? I can't imagine the level of concentration this takes. So when I opt for less "demanding" methods, like shikantaza, or doing nothing, it feels nicer to not have the pressure of a level to achieve, but I also see it as a cop-out: "I don't believe I can reach high levels of concentration, nor that I can enjoy meditation to do it for hours a day, so it may be best to back down rather than giving it up entirely." I don't know if "all paths lead to the same place", but when I hear people talk about the jhanas, I become really curious about it. Is it even possible to sustain such levels of concentration, and stability of mind, given the agitation of the lifestyles of our western, capitalist, time-based world? In some days I meditate more, or have better stability of mind through dispassion, and soon the conditions in life (social norms, traffic, work - and the "need" to be online because of it -, noise, light pollution, hustle) seem to take most of it away. Such that instead of feeling like I'm building up to something, it's like an ebb and flow. In short, the jhanas seem to me like the "way to go" in terms of seeing realitt clearly, but I'm not sure I'm mentally fit for this, as I can't conceive finding time for and meditating for hours a day (and "making it count") without turning it into a chore.

@bethupton1286

6 ай бұрын

Hello, thank you for the question. It would be helpful if we could discuss your practice one on one. It is likely, if you are not finding the practice enjoyable, that you are in the habit of making too much effort. When people meditate for many hours per day it is because they are very relaxed and their minds are full of joy for the practice. It may be there are some things to work through to allow you to relax fully into a jhana practice.

@hear-and-know

6 ай бұрын

@@bethupton1286 thank you Beth, I think I'll reach out, even if just to clarify certain things :)

Thanks for the info! A question - How does one know that they have developed enough "access concentration" or "sustained attention" via using breath as an object before moving to focussing on body sensations?

@bethupton1286

Жыл бұрын

This is a very personal choice based on individual strengths and weaknesses in the practice, and also on the individual motivation in the practice.

@neoloaded

Жыл бұрын

@@bethupton1286 Thanks! I have developed some more intution on this through my practice.

Transcription for this video is available at: samathavipassanabhavana.wordpress.com/2024/05/05/can-we-practice-vipassana-without-jhana/

I would love to reach 1st jhana . I practice 1 hour of concentration of breath a day. If I wanted to achieve first jhana in a year,should I be doing more than that? . Is it possible for a non monk or num?

@bethupton1286

Жыл бұрын

Hello Matthew, it's definitely possible for a non monk or nun! I would say that an hour per day is a good start, though there are many other supporting conditions to consider, and a lot also depends on how skillfully you are spending the rest of your day.

@matthewrousseau2982

Жыл бұрын

@@bethupton1286 I mostly work lol. Hoverver I'm choosing to stay single and live the 8 fold path alway guarding these sense doors. I think I should kick it up ro 3 hours a day.. Thank-you for responding by the way

I thought most modern Theravada prefer someone at least reach stream entry before doing the Samatha jhanas

And wasn't the walk so much more enriching?!😊

I will take a bicycle

@mungojelly

2 жыл бұрын

lol well it's best to take a train or rocket or w/e you can get & then bicycle around, rather than spending the whole time slowly getting there on the bike still freaking out the whole time ... take a bike w/ you on the train .. it's a short ride really & fun to bike back down the mountain whee

@bethupton1286

2 жыл бұрын

:-)