A little glass eye dropper worked to collect sodium for me in a similar setup

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Of course! I keep forgetting that option. Thanks for the tip! I remember watching your videos on the alkali metals back when you posted them. It’s a pleasure to see you here!

@brfisher1123

10 ай бұрын

Don't molten alkali metal hydroxides eat through glass?

@ecoista1373

8 ай бұрын

Ben have you seen the email I sent you about the passive fridge? Sorry to bother you

I have countless projects that can benefit from random bits of information I can pick up from absolutely any and every maker with a KZread channel. Sometimes I can give helpful hints when I see something unwieldy (or a presenter outright complains about something) in a video. Sometimes I can help clarify, such as when presenters aren't really sure what they saw under a microscope or on an oscilloscope and etc. Even a so-called "failed experiment" is infinitely educational just because it's on a highly visible platform like KZread. Thank you for that!

6:30 I get such an urge to drop a sugar cube into that molten KOH forge 😅 It's great to publish a failed experiment, that's very valuable too, I wish more people did it - on KZread as well as in academia.

You don't know until you try, good of you to try! I always enjoy your videos, thanks for making and sharing!

When I made the little bit of Na metal that I did via electrolysis, I used a clay flowerpot. I plugged the hole in the bottom with a nut and bolt and a couple of washers. Definitely a one use crucible but it worked. The concern with stuff like that though is that those flowerpots are prone to cracking. I really liked the idea of the furnace you used for heating. I used a propane torch. Once the NaOH was melted the current would keep the material melted with no more external heating. I really like the info you provide with these videos, process working as you planned or not. Good work. Thanks!

I think the most efficient method I've come across for making potassium metal was the distillation of potassium from KOH and Aluminium powder in a small reaction vessel made from a CO2 canister. Despite not optimising the set up at all (no inert gas, friction fit) I still got a 25% yield which was the best yet for an alkali metal isolation. I do plan on making an ultra efficient set up capable of making sodium through to Cesium using induction heating and Tig welded parts with a vacuum adapter and an argon flushing system, but for now I'm happy with a sample that cost me nothing to make.

I never click away from your videos my man. I know you’re in Uni now but post whatever whenever you can. Your content is great whether successful or not.

Yes this is a type of video I have been waiting

Thank you for the video and great effort. I guess that I would be tempted to build this as a vacuum process vs inert gas process, even though the construction is a bit complicated. It might be possible to get the desired product to evaporate from the melt and condense away in a cooler zone of the vacuum tube, for example in a horizontal vacuum tube furnace. These are common in the semiconductor industry and sometimes come available at moderate prices

I have seen one video with guy using who used a steel can with a charcoal cup as a crucible. Can was almost sealed, had only a small hole in a cap to let gases go away, but charcoal could react only with substances inside of container. There would be problem with observing but, see following solution: Nail electrodes to the bottom od container. Put 1 Ohm resistor and current meter. Once current would drop to 0 or go up to 12 amps (assuming you are using 12 V source) majority of potasium salt have been converted to potasium and gases, so circuit was opened or shortcut by potasium. Then just wait for everything to cool down. It was just though experiment not silupported with any experience 😊

The "easiest" method to get K from electrolysis in the modern age is to do the electrolysis of a solution of potassium perchlorate or tetrafluoroborate in propylene carbonate. You can do it at room temperature and the resulting potassium will be of decent purity. The KClO4 has relatively low solubility (0.04M) so the tetrafluoroborate is preferable.

@hanleypc

11 ай бұрын

Sounds interesting, can any other solvents be used? Not sure how easy it would be to get PC.

@danielppps

11 ай бұрын

@@hanleypc Any of the small chain organic carbonates would work. Propylene carbonate is actually not very hard to get, its sale is not restricted in any way. I have bought it both in the EU and in the US.

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

The difficult part of this one, at least for me, is obtaining the organic carbonate solvent (and, as it turns out, the perchlorate salt too). I will definitely be giving this a try one day though, as it's even been reported that caesium can be made by this method as well. Have you tried this yourself? I've always been told that the PC-based electrolysis requires an inert atmosphere in order to build up reasonable quantities of the alkali metals, but I don't exactly know if that's true.

@danielppps

11 ай бұрын

@@ScrapScience I have done this. You don't need to do this under inert atmosphere - obviously works better if you do - but you do need the solvent to be very dry, otherwise you will just dry it with the generated alkali metal and lose yield. If possible I would suggest at least degassing the solvent with inert gas. Easiest way to collect the metals is on a carbon cloth electrode at the bottom of the container. Collecting the metals in a mercury amalgam gives higher yield, but you would then need to distill the Hg out. An alternative to the potassium perchlorate is to use potassium iodide and a two half-cell setup with a Nafion membrane in the middle. That way you collect K metal on one end and elemental Iodine on the other end. The solubility of KI in PC is also quite high, greater than 0.2M.

@danielppps

11 ай бұрын

@@ScrapScience Also, I forgot to say, your content is awesome, please keep these videos coming.

Great vid!

This experiment is bananas

I looked into this seceral months ago, and reached the same conclusion you did. I havent thought of it much since then, but now im onteteted again as perhaps theres a bismuth based flux that will still float over the potassium.

I hope your furnace is still working. Thank you for sharing the video. I'm waiting for next episode and good luck next time :)

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

I was able to clean it out and fix it, so no worries there, haha.

Video-related tip: don't allow such a big "headroom" (distance between top of the head and the top of the frame). Your eyes should be at about two-thirds the way up.

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Thank you! This is exactly the kind of feedback I need! I’ll remember this for the future.

@pelegsap

11 ай бұрын

@@ScrapScience Happy to help, since from the chemistry point of view I can't really (electrochemistry was never my strong side in university...). In any case, this is a good place to say that your channel is one of my favorite chemistry-related channels on KZread. Keep up the good work!

Nice video Can ask you how can separate TIN metal from boards of computer solder

Great channel. Failures are as important as success'

cheers harry. your videos are always educational. success is finding out what doesn't work and noting that. We all appreciate your time and effort. Electrolysis is a diificult bitch to master. :)

Try using glass instead, they might be sacrifial if it cools down too fast but it works 10x better, unless u have high grade stainless (not sure wat type is better 304 316 etc) But low grade stainless will even clog the reaction and stop the metal production, even for na and li.. If it goes brown its done, no good, restart..

Comment fabriquer une cellule de production d'hypochlorite de sodium

I like it!! Do you think Rb and Cs would behave the same way and dissolve im their hydroxide ?

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Sadly, yes, almost definitely. Initial attempts of electrolysing the heavier alkali metals from their molten salts failed in many cases. In fact, the isolation of caesium was only achieved when someone tried to do it with molten caesium cyanide - not their first choice for obvious reasons, haha.

what electric crucible is that and is it any good? i think i've seen them somewhere

@ScrapScience

10 ай бұрын

It's basically just the cheapest electric furnace I could find on Ebay - not sure of the brand. It's something along the lines of this one: www.ebay.com.au/itm/354938105014?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0&ssspo=7ywogv2ntfg&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=Jx1jMD7BTLK&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY It's worked for everything I've needed it for so far, so I can't say anything bad about it. I'd definitely say it was worth the money,.

How to make a sodium hypochlorite production machine

Your furnace might be ok, I did exactly the same trying to melt lead in a stainless scoop. It has been gradually flowing down the hole where the temp probe is. Luckily if you take the bottom panel off your furnace you'll see there isn't actually very much in there to get broken. You might be able to periodically clear out the hydroxide until it's not a problem. I've been wondering if you can get ceramic crucibles that fit because it's also disappointing how quickly the graphite ones degrade.

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, I was luckily able to clean it all out and it still functions now. It was a real hassle though. I had to wash the bottom piece repeatedly with water and then had to put a container full of calcium chloride in there to dry it all up. Took a while, but it worked!

What is the electric pric by kwh in uk?

@markshort9098

11 ай бұрын

Harry wouldn't know that, he's an Aussie

People like you change the world 🌎 👏👏👏👏👏 you can get potassium metal by melting potassium hydroxide with aluminum foil 😊

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Wow, you got here early, nice. Did you find this video in a playlist or something?

@hassantqatqa6165

11 ай бұрын

@@ScrapScience no I love this channel so everything it upload KZread send it to me

What about trying a molten metal cathode to dissolve the potassium to form an alloy? Sn? Al? Zn?

@ScrapScience

10 ай бұрын

That would probably work! I know tin forms an alloy with potassium at least. The trouble is separating the metal from the alloy afterwards I suppose... If pure potassium proves to be too difficult, I'll go for the idea, thanks!

Good effort though we always learn more from failure

What can we exist from ash ?

from my experience stainless steel does not like strong alkaline conditions, the base tends to leach the chromium from the steel resulting in compromised structural integrity of the stainless steel piece. I suffered with that, and ended up with chromates and dichromates if you can believe it.

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Interesting, I’ll keep that in mind.

I suppose you should avoid using both a hydroxide and a halide in the eutectic mix...? The chlorine produced on the anode may directly react with the hydroxide to make something like chlorates, which will travel to the cathode and destroy your potassium. Alternatively, you can use another eutectic of KOH that has its melting point below the boiling point of paraffin oil (around 300˚C), and you can use that to protect the potassium metal from the atmosphere and stop it from burning up.

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Chlorate is almost definitely a problem, yes. Additionally, a lower melting eutectic like the one you’ve suggested is now a plan for the future!

Stainless is not necessarily the problem, but cheap "stainless" is. If you weld crucible from CSN 17 240 steel, it will likely work better if not perfectly well. Sorry, don't know DIN/other norm # of top of my head.

Very cool

Could you get to 800c with your furnace, then use KCl instead of KOH?

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Yep! However, KCl runs into the same solubility problems as KOH. Additionally, even if that weren't the case, potassium's boiling point is less that 800 C, so the metal would likely boil off as it was made.

@rainwater397

11 ай бұрын

@ScrapScience it would be a delicate balance, but if the potassium boils, thats one way to isolate it

Have you heard about distilling potassium metall with potassiumhydroxide and Aluminium?

@ScrapScience

7 ай бұрын

It has been mentioned, but I don't know much about it. I'm a lot more familiar with electrochemistry than I am with high-temperature distillation of reactive metals...

Id call it a W. Just gotta figure out how to get the potassium out of the crucible

Easiest method is KOH/Al mixture distillation.

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

I wouldn't call that easy... haha

@ChimeraChemLab

11 ай бұрын

@@ScrapScience but significantly easier than electrolysis...

hmm, but what would be a good choice of crucible for molten salt electrolysis if not stainless?

@ScrapScience

10 ай бұрын

Some kind of ceramic crucible is generally a good choice. Something like alumina I suppose (though that won't work for any cases involving molten hydroxides). Graphite works in most cases too. For molten hydroxides, the only truly inert choice is magnesia.

@LateNightHacks

10 ай бұрын

@@ScrapScience what is magnesia? even google seems unsure

@ScrapScience

10 ай бұрын

Magnesia is magnesium oxide - I'm talking about these kinds of crucibles: almathcrucibles.com/material/mgo/

@LateNightHacks

10 ай бұрын

@@ScrapScience oh I see, didn't even know they existed, thanks!

Sucks that this didn't work well as I rarely see the electrolysis of potassium being done on video.

Hi please electrolysis barium chloride test

@ScrapScience

10 ай бұрын

One day, eventually

I have a suspicion that all of that Chromium present in the melt from the stainless, is catalytically oxidizing your potassium metal. Who knows, maybe you are making some Cr(VI) species at the anode? Even if no, I think this is not possible without an inert atmosphere, K would probably self ignite at the temperature of the melt, no?

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Hmm, that does make sense. It’s definitely somewhat likely. As for self-ignition, metals produced by molten salt electrolysis are often protected during their formation by an invisibly thin layer of molten salt which is held over the metal’s surface by surface tension. Potassium’s surface tension is rather low however, so I don’t know whether this applies here.

I'd love to make potassium by electrolysis but looking at my horrible luck doing sodium that way I don't think I'll try, I got 0.5g at best over 10+ runs of NaOH cells.

I also think your Potassium reacted directly with the steel and dissolved iron, which probably accelerated your "crucible" breakdown.

@garycard1456

11 ай бұрын

Potassium ferrate formation?

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

That makes sense - probably explains why it hasn't happened to this extent before as well.

@mcwolfbeast

11 ай бұрын

@@garycard1456 more likely just a double exchange from the more reactive potassium. Note also the dark green color of the molten salt indicative of ferrous salts being formed.

@markshort9098

11 ай бұрын

​@@ScrapScience if the stainless was discoloured from previous experiments then the chromium oxide protective layer would be gone which would also make it more open to chemical attack

Perhaps you need to make a Castner cell? - MrGreen did a video recently on making sodium using a homemade Castner cell, whilst breaking nearly every safety rule that exists: I made the worlds most dangerous bath toy - kzread.info/dash/bejne/lXaclbmae8W_mKg.html

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

That video was a little stressful to watch… but an impressive project and final result nonetheless. I’ll hopefully be building a Downs cell eventually, but I’m unsure if either of these work for potassium.

One of the easiest way to make potassium metal is by heating a mix of dried KOH and aluminum to >800*C and distilling off the potassium

@mcwolfbeast

11 ай бұрын

How would you distill off Potassium in a backyard setup?

@Exotic_Chem_Lab

11 ай бұрын

@@mcwolfbeast you need furnace... Electric or gas/ charcoal Put KOH and Aluminum in a thick steel pipe. One end welded and 1/4" steel pipe welded on other end. This pipe goes into mineral oil. The reaction produces hydrogen which protects potassium.

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Your definition of 'easiest' is rather different to mine, haha. Might try this one day, but distillation of an alkali metal at 800 C scares me immensely.

Question: i can make explosives from household chemicals like bleach, ammonia, drain opener, etc. ?

hey try single step molten naoh electrolysis with the more used metal oxides (iron oxide, aluminium oxide, magnesium oxide etc) mixed in the melt at 400C process, immediate reduction of the metal oxides by the Na cycle, with NaOH in the mix you make NaK, no problem, also how about chloride process to make the metal, like electrolysis of KCl or something, Na will also reduce the KCl, or other metal chlorides

@gsestream

10 ай бұрын

try inert shield gas atmosphere molten electrolysis, like in tig welding, also chlorides are just corrosive, not easily harmful

@gsestream

9 ай бұрын

why not use glass crucible/pot/jar/beaker to melt/electrolyse all low temperature extractions, like KOH and NaOH

@Phoenixfisch

7 ай бұрын

​@@gsestreamBecause these hydroxides can actually dissolve glass.

@gsestream

7 ай бұрын

glass is not usually dissolved by most stuff, they are used as chemistry chamical containers, well HDPE plastic is another that is a very chemically inert resistant container material @@Phoenixfisch

@Phoenixfisch

7 ай бұрын

@@gsestream I know, but sodium hydroxide is one of the few substances that can dissolve glass, that's why you shouldn't use it as a crucible in this case.

Would borax help. Making a layer over the top to stop it burning.

@ScrapScience

3 ай бұрын

From some further research after I finished this video, it seems that the reason the potassium disappears is pretty much entirely due to its dissolution back into the melt. So no, I'm afraid it's very unlikely that a protective layer would affect much under these conditions.

What not to do is just as important as what to do, even if it's not as sexy.

now it is all about molten salts, I'd like to see some aqueous stuff, like back in the day... kilns don't grow on trees

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

My previous three videos were all about aqueous chemistry…

@deathkeys1

11 ай бұрын

@@ScrapScience fair enough, please, disregard me saying this.

Yay!

Nice try however don't give up i am sure you be able to get potassium metal eventually.

And making barium

🥲10:09

Didn't Nurdrage already crack this process open? He used menthol catalysed magnesium to reduce sodium at low temperatures, and potassium should also work with this.

@hanleypc

11 ай бұрын

He did for sodium, I've no idea if menthol works with potassium.

@Relatablename

11 ай бұрын

@hanleypc Why shouldn't it? AllChemystery demonstrated the process with t-butanol years before NurdRage made his breakthrough. They have similar reactivity, so it's worth a shot right?

@ScrapScience

11 ай бұрын

Yep! That’s definitely an option. I just enjoy trying to get the electrolytic methods to work. If you actually want reasonable quantities of potassium, that’s the way to do it.

Better try with aluminum)

noooo, i missed the face reveal 😡😡😡