NEXT VIDEO: for an intriguing sound add-on for MSFS 2020: kzread.info/dash/bejne/naCNp5hwYZDbXdY.html

One thing I can see in advantage of AI ATC is pretty simple: On VATSIM there's always a chance that controllers go offline or airports don't have a controller once you approach them. I fly regional airports frequently, which tend to have this problem because controllers tend to gravitate to large international hubs.

@BastiSimming

16 күн бұрын

Yes, you are absolutely right. Additionally using time acceleration (as I said in the video) is another use case I see for "AI ATC".

I get the feeling SayIntentions doesn't care if you say things correctly, which means it also won't pick up on incorrect readbacks, whereas BeyondATC is very particular, but needs very specific phrasing. SayIntentions ends up feeling more streamlined because it gives you the illusion it just hears you correctly the first time, whereas BeyondATC is very frustrating when it gets stuck like it often does. I only have the latter myself, and it definitely needs more maturing to get rid of these points of frustration, bizarre instructions etc. Would be interesting to test SayIntentions just saying everything wrong to see how much it actually listens, and how much it simply injects what it expects. If I'm wrong and it actually verifies everything, then I am impressed.

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

Yeah I agree with all you said. Will be extremely interesting to see how the two tools will learn from each other because I think they both do stuff very right and also not that right :D

@LokiDWolf

21 күн бұрын

I too have BATC and yeah, it got frustrating enough that I would have to sometimes hit the auto-reply just to get pass the call. Yet, I do find it way more realistic. I personally don't care if something answers me about this or that (though I do think it's cool). I'm more so about really learning the rights and wrongs. I really like BATC shows you on the screen how things are said. It's been extremely useful.

@christiankoke7969

21 күн бұрын

I had the same issue with SayIntentions. Even if I clearly repeated frequencies wrong it didn't object to it. But according to the devs that is intentional for the time being and corrections by the Atc will be turned on soon

@ifr-ed

21 күн бұрын

We verify, but we dont enforce (yet). You can say a waffle recipe and it will not try to correct your amount of flour... :)

@imsvale

20 күн бұрын

@@ifr-ed Noted! I expect if you were to turn it on right now, the experience would be more similar to BATC. ;)

Thank you very much for this comparison! I am sure it was a lot of work! I like your style, subbed!

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

Thanks a ton! It was some work but it really was fun preparing.

i recently got BATC, an while its often updated, the few flights ive done, it can get a bit confused vectoring, ive had it bring me in high/late a few times too. Still worth the money, and it is EA, so im not worried, the dev has a really good approach, very transparent (actually why i went with BATC), and much better than stock atc(which i persevered with for over 3000 hours). Can anyone tell me, IRL, would you tell the controller your ready to decend, or is this a limitation of a 3rd party software in sim?

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

Interesting, thanks for sharing! I have the feeling that there is a lot to explore in the area where something is not following the planned flow (detecting this is difficult but handling it gracefully is even harder)

Beyond ATC experience is spot on. Exactly what I deal with

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

There is definitely some work to be done 😂

Thanks for this. Just FYI - BATC has trouble with 'niner'. 'Nine' always works. Not ideal, but better than constantly repeating yourself and then hitting the auto response.

@BastiSimming

13 күн бұрын

Thank you! It was already mentioned here in the comments that this is currently the case...very unfortunate. I will try using "nine" instead of "niner" in my next flight. Thanks for watching and sharing!

@TBMPilot736

9 күн бұрын

Yeah, same frustrating issues with handover frequencies and not understanding taxi readbacks. Also really annoying is the lack of prompt assignments to ramps or gates at the arrival airport. BATC please improve the UI.

very good job :-) thank you for your effort. That really give me a picture about it. Well done.

@BastiSimming

16 күн бұрын

Happy if the video helped, it was really fun to make.

Great video and comparison. I’m defo going to give Sayintentions a go and see how I go with it. Currently using BATC so gonna compare the both. Happy to pay for a subscription if it’s better.

@BastiSimming

20 күн бұрын

Thanks and I would be very interested in your thoughts of SAI and BATC after you compared them!

good content! very informative

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

Thanks, glad if it helps!

sehr gut

Really good and fair comparison, probably one of best I've seen. I purchased the supporters pack of BeyondATC and had the same issue of getting it to understand me as well as doing some really weird things on approach to some airports that got me completely lost. That said I think it's a great program indeed. I haven't tried SayIntentions. I'm tempted especially with the price drop and want to fly VFR again which I mostly do, but, and this is only based on me, I don't really fly enough to warrant the monthly fee. I think if you fly enough it would be well worth it though, so it just depends on what you do. I also find SayIntentions comparison page VERY misleading which puts me off them as al business. I would encourage them to focus on a meaningful comparison about the benefits rather than crappy statements like "If your ATC software is a one-time fee, it's not AI". Focus on the benefits in flight such as more natural conversation and ability to go "off piste" and get people back, supporting flight plan changes etc

@BastiSimming

18 күн бұрын

Thank you and I'm glad you liked the video. It was fun to make. It is interesting that you mention the homepage of SAI...I agree with your statement about the comparison table on the SAI homepage. I also found it a little strange. I was thinking about putting that into the video, at the end I decided against it since I wanted to focus on the capabilities of the programs. I just checked the SAI homepage and I could not find the table so maybe it is gone?

@o.s.racing

18 күн бұрын

@@BastiSimming Its on the pricing page still. I think it's fair enough not to mention it here it doesn't impact the program at all. I just read it and thought it a little unnecessary and some items just untrue which is a bit naughty. I imagine most people into flight sims enough to want to look at these products will be aware of what each do and their shortcomings, but if you were looking at the comparison as someone that had genuinely not seen either you'd be very mislead. It's just unnecessary sloppy marketing

@ifr-ed

18 күн бұрын

@@o.s.racing What exactly is untrue?

@SayIntentionsAI

18 күн бұрын

​@@o.s.racing please let us know what you find to be untrue and we'll correct it! We are in the midst of changing the website a bunch in preparation for new feature releases. Check back soon to see if it's more to your liking 👍

@o.s.racing

18 күн бұрын

@@SayIntentionsAI I appreciate that. I think a refresh of the website would look great! As I say I think you have a great product and I think the price for the advanced features you have is on the money, I just don't get much chance to fly enough to utilise it at the moment. My best advice would be to focus on the amazing things your product does rather than bash other solutions. Some people don't need the most advanced LLM and that's ok, yours sits between those that are have a more limited set of responses and the full VATSIM network, its a great spot to be in!

While both AI-based air control systems are good, I really like VATSIM! However, as a newbie, it can be quite stressful the first time if you mess something up. I’ve never tried VATSIM before, and my only hesitation is because I’m still learning the whole ATC procedure.

@BastiSimming

13 күн бұрын

@@belableier you can‘t imagine how nervous I was before my first VATSIM flight. I think I needed a shower afterwards 😂 But it gets easier extremely quickly and you will realize that in almost all situations it is okay to ask (even more than once) to clarify things. The only time a controller got a little firm with me was during an VATSIM event where I didn’t vacate the runway quickly enough but still he was very professional.

@belableier

13 күн бұрын

@@BastiSimming Thanks Mate! Would you recommend Vatsim for newbie then? Or should I I go one these AI based ones?

@BastiSimming

13 күн бұрын

@@belableier oh I definitely would recommend VATSIM. I would suggest picking an airport and airspace were you feel most comfortable and watch a couple of YT videos with complete flights with VATSIM communication. And also make sure you know your airplane including doing directs and go arounds. SAI and BATC are great tools to prepare for VATSIM but I would not say that they are necessary. Another idea: you can log onto the VATSIM network as an observer and just listen. Also a great way to get to grips with all the processes.

@belableier

13 күн бұрын

@@BastiSimming Thank you! You have your well deserved sub here! Keep up the good work! 👍🏻

I was hoping that BATC issue with requiring such exact responses was sorted (or at least better) by now. Will hold off on buying still. Its definitely the better option for my budget, I'm just not that heavily into flight sims to justify the cost of SI. I'm sure SI will be the better option for others who fly more. Particularly when doing flights with no vatsim, or similar, coverage at the time. There certainly should be room for both in the market.

@BastiSimming

16 күн бұрын

I think your analysis is spot on. They both have different advantages and also disadvantages and they both give a lot of value to the users. I myself fly a lot with the the PMDG 777 and using time acceleration (I really do not want to sit 11h in front of the computer to fly from Reunion to Paris 😂) and find myself turning on BATC almost automatically when starting a new flight because it is „good enough“ and gives „enough value“ (as I said in the video I am using BATC because I have the premium characters left).

I liked the regional accents of sayagain and that it actually welcomed you to Berlin. Beyond felt like you were being yelled at by Americans that didn't understand your accent 😅

@BastiSimming

9 күн бұрын

You are totally right, I missed that detail. Nice work by SayIntentions.AI.

I wouldnt mind Vatsim, but had a bad experience on there with a controller. Also its very hit and miss where coverage is available.

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

I would give VATSIM another chance…you can have bad luck but at least in Europe (I never left Europe on VATSIM so I am not able to speak to other parts of the VATSIM world) the controllers all in all are very nice. Where has your bad experience been?

@jay-rus4437

21 күн бұрын

@@BastiSimming …. First time on vatsim some young controller in boston had a bad attitude. I even typed that it was my first time on, but he was a jerk. Im very analytical, with an engineering and real life flight experience, but I didnt understand how to get my clearance within the system. He wouldnt give it to me verbally, then got an attitude when I asked where to get it from

@jeroenrutgers-herenius9541

20 күн бұрын

​@@jay-rus4437don't give up. The majority of controllers and pilots are friendly and helpfull

@jay-rus4437

12 күн бұрын

@@jeroenrutgers-herenius9541….well, I mainly fly using A Pilots Life 2, so I have really enjoyed Say Intention as I have full ATC service where my weekly schedule sends me

What is the thing with squawk 1000? Germany local procedure?

@BastiSimming

20 күн бұрын

As far as I know it is a procedure not only local to Germany but to parts of Europe. It means the ground stations will use the (unique) identifier of an MODE-S transponder to identify the plane.

@GapeGang

13 күн бұрын

EU

2028 we might have a functioning ATC with live AI traffic

@BastiSimming

15 күн бұрын

Well at least we would have it at some point, right?

very nice, only think the IA does not recognise the word "niner" for nine, it should be correct and it will be perfect

@BastiSimming

15 күн бұрын

Jap, I agree (but it's unfortunate that "niner" is nit recognised as it is standard phraseology)

Since BATC and sayintension don't support traffic injection (yet) I will stay with FSHUD and FSLTL in combination. The voices are not as sexy and I don't use push to talk, but it works, and the injected traffic is pretty nice. Downside... FSLTL uses fr24 data, if the airport is empty in real life it's empty in the sim. If the AI programs evolve, I would go for BATC, since a monthly subscription is a no go to me.

@BastiSimming

19 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing! I think BATC announced that they use FR24 data but do something „clever“ so that you will not sit alone on an airport. That’s at least what I took away from some videos and posts.

@Boradumir

19 күн бұрын

@@BastiSimming BATC said, that they will use real word flightplans depending on the day and time. So one would get traffic in relation to the time set in the sim. I like the concept, since you could fly on the other side of the globe and could get realistic traffic. Not like me sitting in Europe, using FSLTL in New Zealand and getting no traffic... because everyone is sleeping over there. 😂🤣

It'll be BeyondATC for me but not until traffic injection and VFR are available. They also need to accept the correct phonetic pronunciation for numbers. From other videos it seems that American ATC use the correct pronunciation (zero, wun, too, tree, fower, fife....niner) but American pilots have never been taught it.

@BastiSimming

18 күн бұрын

Hmm yeah maybe albeit other comments suggest that BeyondATC has been better in recognizing „niners“ in the past…hope it will get fixed soon.

had the same issue get computer to say it

@BastiSimming

13 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing. Yeah, it is really annoying…

Great video, but I'll stick with VATSIM. :)

@BastiSimming

13 күн бұрын

Thanks for watching! I also will stick with ihr VATSIM for all realtime flights 👍

Falls Du Interesse an etwas tiefgehenderen Informationen zu SI haben möchtest, sprich mich gerne auf den offiziellen Kanälen an. Speziell das Thema Taxi Instructions würde mich bei Dir wirklich mal interessieren, das kann eigentlich so nicht sein :)

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

@@ifr-ed Ja klar, gern. Wie erreiche ich dich denn im Discord am besten?

@ifr-ed

21 күн бұрын

@@BastiSimming Hast es ja geschafft und Kollege McCracken hat Dich ja schon unter seine Fittiche genommen :)

all done by voice no text?

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

As far as I know you can use direct text entry on SayIntentions.AI and on VATSIM and you can use the responses from the list in the lower right corner in BeyondATC…but to be honest: text is very cumbersome in my experience

@Parascuba

21 күн бұрын

@@BastiSimming good to know about text, i'm 100% deaf

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

@@Parascuba Understood, than of course text input is very important. I think that Beyond ATC is best than because you just have to scroll and click. One important thing to know is that you can activate auto response (I think in both tools) which is kind of realistic if you are in a 2 Person Cockpit.

@BastiSimming

7 күн бұрын

@@Parascuba Would you be willing to talk / text about FlightSim's and how they handle accessibility from your perspective? I would be very interested in exploring this topic. You can reach me via the mail here youtube@hundt.me, I would really appreciate it.

Nice comparison! Im surprised there are not more videos including FSHud. It does at least as good as these and includes traffic. Just no voice recognition 😕 so I just pretend my PNF is doing all the coms.

@BastiSimming

18 күн бұрын

I think you are the second person to mention FSHud, maybe I will post another video and see how it compares to the tools shown here. Thanks!

BeyondATC doesn't like you saying "niner" even though it uses that pronunciation itself. "nine" works fine though. Its a well known bug they are working on

@BastiSimming

19 күн бұрын

Good to know, thanks. If it is indeed well known I wish even more that there would be some kind of fallback mechanism to be honest. Looking forward to the fix 👍

Beyond ATC is not really AI. They are using canned phrases like default ATC does. Say Intensions is real AI though.

@BastiSimming

10 күн бұрын

What do you define as „Real AI“?

The AI products make clear errors and are just plain annoying in my opinion. Thank you for the comparison!

@BastiSimming

18 күн бұрын

You are welcome, I am glad if the video helps!

"Niner" versteht Beyond ATC nicht, muss "Nine" sein, dann geht es

@BastiSimming

18 күн бұрын

Werde ich mal ausprobieren, danke

Beyond ATC voice recognition has been much better than that, but in the last three weeks it has gotten much worse. I'm sure it will be fixed. I have both and with SayIntentions price reduction and the fact that you do not feel alone because of the multiplayer I would choose SayIntentions right now. The monthly payment could be a deal breaker for some. Beyond Atc is good and has alot of promise but it feels a little narrow in what you can say which is fine most times until something does not go as planned. SayIntentions deals with things that do not follow the script much better.

@BastiSimming

19 күн бұрын

That is very interesting and also a little sad to hear that there is a regression in the quality of BATC voice recognition…would be interesting to know how that happened….thanks for sharing!

@Atlasworkinprogress

18 күн бұрын

​@@BastiSimming BeyondATC switched to a new AI model and they are working on getting it up to the quality of the old AI model. When the new model works, it's fantastic. They moved from a general LLM to one focused on Aviation phraseology.

@BastiSimming

18 күн бұрын

@@Atlasworkinprogress Interesting, thanks for sharing! Are you sure it‘s an LLM? Because I remember that somewhere on the page BATC said they do not use an LLM (because of the associated costs). Nevertheless I hope they fix it soon. I am using up my Premium Credits (currently on route to LFPG coming from FMEE) and it would be nice to not have to rely on the generated response so frequently…

@Atlasworkinprogress

18 күн бұрын

@@BastiSimming You are correct. I misread the notes. They replaced their entire Voice Recognition backend. Here is the patch notes: Minor Update 1.0.48.EA - Started replacement of our entire speech recognition backend service. This is an ongoing effort to replace our current AI model with a custom trained AI model that uses a massive dataset of 'pilot speak' to achieve better speech recognition. You should notice a improvement immediately, and it should only continue to improve over the coming weeks/months as we feed it more data. ---- Though as they quickly found out it was not the immediate improvement the devs thought it would be. (User feedback was very quick to tell them it was wonky, to say the least). I said LLM as that is generally what I think of when things of generative AI.

I found B-ATC to be crap!

@BastiSimming

15 күн бұрын

That's too bad that your experience is so bad. As you can see in the video I find that BATC has its strong points and its weak points.

All the beeps and tones with BATC is annoying. I switched to SI some weeks back, and much prefer it. They have also reduced cost to $20 per month

@BastiSimming

21 күн бұрын

Ah interesting, I have the complete opposite view. I find the audio cues helpful but it seems this comes down to personal preference. And yes, SAI reduced the cost (I only cited the new price of 20USD in the video).

@mlx39996

19 күн бұрын

you can turn off the beeps and tones!

@jay-rus4437

12 күн бұрын

@@mlx39996….nice. Didnt know that. Also interesting to hear that others seem to like them.

I don't care. I don't respect developers that force their users into paying a subscription to use their software. When is "Buying and Owning" coming back? I hope VATSIM doesn't follow the same route. I hate monthly subscriptions.

@ifr-ed

20 күн бұрын

Well, the AI services / voice generation providers are not able to provide a model that you can "own". Your statement doesnt make any sense at all. You will pay for it or you will not be able to create software like this, this applies to both developers in this case, not only us at SI.

@BastiSimming

20 күн бұрын

@RomeoPapaCharlie: help me understand: what do you exactly mean when you say „I don‘t care“?

@mlx39996

19 күн бұрын

you clearly have no idea how anything in software works

@lazo5784

18 күн бұрын

Lol who forced you to purchase their software? Servers cost money, I guess you want everything free. Wait until MSFS2028 forces you to subscribe to stream the photogrammetry in the future. If you think they can’t you’re in the wrong hobby.

@Stoney3K

16 күн бұрын

They have a subscription model because the AI used to generate the instructions is running on their servers, not on your computer locally. So there is no "owning" involved, as it is not a piece of software but an online service.

The atc says negative because you saying "one two one nye nine eight" and he think you said 121.998!

@BastiSimming

15 күн бұрын

When exactly do I say that you think?

@Wild_Duck19

14 күн бұрын

Hello! At 5:18

@BastiSimming

14 күн бұрын

@@Wild_Duck19 Hmm as far as I hear it I say exactly the same thing as BATC („one two one decimal niner eight“). As others said BATC seems to not not like „niner“ currently which is of course wrong since it is standard phrasing.