Each person can figuratively move ever closer to either the large and spacious building or towards the tree of life....depending on the desires of the heart.

I learned in the military a statement that "Attitude reflects Leadership". My question is when are the Leaders of the Church going to go in and clean house???

@icecreamladydriver1606

2 жыл бұрын

And why did they let this happen in the first place?

@benpassey6509

2 жыл бұрын

You cant pull up the tares, without uprooting the wheat. They have to grow together.

@edmundoalarcon2000

2 жыл бұрын

The leaders are fence sitting hard

@DawnaRo

2 жыл бұрын

@@benpassey6509 None of my children will send their children to be thrown in with all those tares! They are struggling to figure out what to do. All college but 3 in this country are too corrupt to send our precious children to. And none of those 3 GOOD colleges are LDS run colleges. At this point one grandchild is doing on line BYU studies, one has decided not to go to college, and 3 others opted for trade schools.

@bartbutkis

2 жыл бұрын

@@DawnaRo 😄

So many great and profound thoughts and insights discussed. Loved how Professor Hancock adds the historical perspective. Truly, helps in making wise judgments on today’s terse and divisive subjects. While keeping the battle between self and a higher moral code essential. Battle been going on from the beginning just different phraseology now.

Equity with equal outcomes sounds a lot like the pre existence where one said follow me and we all succeed. Caused a whole war.

@hv2328

2 жыл бұрын

Dang bro, so simple it hurts

@onelowerlight

2 жыл бұрын

And that war never ended

Hillsdale college seems to be one of the best places to send young people to college. At least they are very constitutionally minded.

@violetangelflame1

2 жыл бұрын

I agree Tiffany. I would also think about liberty university of your children's testimony is strong. I don't have kids to send of to college. All most all brothers and sisters say my opinion doesn't count.

@omacookie

2 жыл бұрын

But who will your children marry?

I remember being deeply inspired by Pres Holland's talk, though as this wise professor points out, his challenge is no simple one. The scope suggested was profound and expansive. Wholeheartedly agree and have felt for years spent in academic environments that 'specialization' neglects the deeper meanings, the wholistic search for truth. Prof Hancock states this so well!! I'll share this far and wide though unfortunately most people are impatient with this depth of commentary. Love this and have hope for a future return to this wholistic love of truth.

@carlscott4180

2 жыл бұрын

23:27. 23:27. 23:27. 23:27 23:27. Pretty speeches with no costly nor controversial leadership actions behind them that alter the fundamental incentives. Right there is 90% of the problem. I'm an Anglican admirer of Ralph's. So I think BYU kids should all become Anglican. But in terms of any religious school, or any school seeking holistic Great Books education, or even any secular school merely seeking to be fair to the conservative half of the nation, to give them and basic intellectual diversity a fair shake in academia, Hancock has put his finger on the key problem.

Fantastic discussion, thank you both!

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Lefty atheist here. This was a fantastic conversation. Thank you. This helped me understand where my right friends and family are coming from and where I am coming from. Great conversation.

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

@smuggythornton

2 жыл бұрын

Congrats for being an awesome lefty, where the exchange of thinking is enjoyed rather than destained.

@Kalama_Llama_King_Kong

2 жыл бұрын

@@smuggythornton thank you, brother. These are two intelligent humans and their arguments are formidable. I also was LDS the vast majority of my life. So a top value for me is kindness and try to not get caught up in the us vs them. It is so hard. But when you are so clear about your arguments, as Cwick is, makes it easy to focus on arguments.

It has to do with our country too. Every civilization falls in a short time when the basic unit of civilization "The Family" discinigrates.

When I taught at BYU a few years ago, I was disappointed that the biology department promoted theistic evolution which is the belief that the Lord used evolution to create Adam and Eve. Theistic evolution is not consistent with fundamental teachings in the gospel, yet BYU faculty were telling young people it was okay to accept Darwinian evolution and the gospel, that they are in harmony. My larger concern is that so many faculty were complicit in pulling the wool, so to speak, over students' eyes.

@benpassey6509

2 жыл бұрын

Not sure what you are saying, that humans came from apes as evolution or that evolution doesnt exist? Biologically evolution is scientific fact, species evolve. There is no proof that humans came from apes, but there is no proof they didnt. Being both scientific and religious compels us to be okay with what we dont know, until we we know more. If we discover that God did indeed evolve humans from another form, will that destroy your faith? It is just as dangerous, and risks apostasy, to be firmly on one side of the unknown as the other.

@harmagician1

2 жыл бұрын

@@benpassey6509 The gospel teaches that the creation of Adam and Eve was purposeful and directed. However, evolution across life forms teaches that random genetic mutations combined with pressures from natural selection creates species. The creation of humankind was not left to chance events and so gospel accounts of creation are not logically consistent with evolution. Making them logically consistent requires bending the tenets of evolution and/or the gospel.

@carlscott4180

2 жыл бұрын

This is a boutique issue. Prof Hancock probably agrees with theistic evolution. Try not to distract from the main issues here.

Another point I want to share if the family is falling apart, the nation will collapse

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed.

"The Maxwell Legacy in the 21st Century" by Holland 1988, I mean 2018 That ought to get you there. I think it's right in line with your topic today

Thank you!

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

Welcome!

The intro says it all I bet. Great excerpt choice.

Moroni spoke plainly and warned us as a church. Mormon 8:38 explains a lot of things going on today.

What I get from the beginning of this is that we can stop calling BYU a church school. He basically said that train has already left the station and there is no changing it. Unless it is a part of your family tradition you are better off saving the out of state tuition and finding a good local college. At least your kids will go in thinking that they are a minority in their thinking rather than having the false sense of security that their religious ideas are the norm and will be respected.

I have a niece, she went to BYU and came home fully messed up and had basically abandoned every principle of gospel. My father-in-law and wife were talking about it and my father-in-law said "She went to BYU and got messed up"... My wife's response was "(BLANK, her own mom) messed her up." To which my father-in-law could only agree. This is a family that is paying for the transition surgeries for one of their children and thinks she should now be allowed to pass the sacrament. Sadly the husband is now a bishop. The modern church is going the way of the ancient. BYU is off the beaten path, but the real problem is that not enough time has been spent educating the youth at home and preparing them properly. That has been outsourced or flat out ignored. If you do not remove the tares when they are known tares they will choke out the wheat. We are seeing that process before our eyes and talking about without calling it what it is.

@Sayheybrother8

2 жыл бұрын

I apologize if I’m misunderstanding your comment but are you suggesting that these so called tares could potentially choke out the Lords wheat? The Lord established his church and the gates of hell will not prevail over it. At least that’s what scripture says. We as members would do well to remember this is his church not ours.

@Veevslav1

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sayheybrother8 Yes they can and will eventually as has happened times past. Tares become a poison/tainting harming all that consume the fruit/seed/etc... The second coming of the Savior Jesus Christ is the only thing that prevents that event from happening again in our dispensation as it has in times past. "21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well-and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell." 2 Nephi 28:21 Book of Mormon Scriptures

@Sayheybrother8

2 жыл бұрын

@@Veevslav1 but who decides who the tares are? The church used to teach the certain races and those married monogamously were tares. The concern is who decides

@charinabottae

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sayheybrother8 Nathaniel, this is not the first time I've seen you comment on a cwic video falsely attributing teachings to the church. I'm trying to view you as just misunderstanding, not malicious, but it's not easy seeing yet another false attribution. Why are you here if you seem to think so ill of the church?

@Veevslav1

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sayheybrother8 By their fruit shall ye know them. What does your fruit reveal about you? As to the "certain races" and "married monogamously" Why use lies or twist the truth if you think you know what the truth is? It has always been about fruit. Blacks were denied the priesthood for reasons not related to this dispensation or the fruit they bore by their own actions. They have never called monogamous marriage a tare. If you were familiar with polygamy or its practice you would know that not everyone practiced it within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints at the time it was practiced anymore than everyone in Bible has practiced it throughout the ages. Certain individuals practiced it. As to who ultimately will decided who the tares are? They themselves decided by their actions. Jesus Christ will judge them or those he appoints to the judgment. Now I leave you to your fruits. May you be surrounded by people that are just like you for the remainder of your days.

I keep praying the Church leaders will step up so the tithing paying members kids can go there . It is frustrating to know my grandkids can’t be at BYU without losing their testimonies. Perhaps politics …left or right …need to be banned at BYU . I was a TA in the history department years ago and it would have never occurred to me to include my personal political opinions . The Lords University should be dedicated to first and foremost The Lord . It has been turned over to the World . Perhaps it is time for the Church to divest itself from the University ? Most members have No desire to continue wasting tithing money when our children have to go elsewhere .

@user-ql2id3ml3i

2 жыл бұрын

BYU is not a gospel based school, they are no different that any other school now and not as good many for real education.

@Momcamp02

2 жыл бұрын

The term “the Lord’s university” is more applicable to the temple than to any other place of learning.

Elder Neal A Maxwell talk "but for a small moment"

The discussion just before 1hour mark is meaty. Neither Religious language nor the language of Modern Rationalism (nor Classical Liberalism) are enough to fight this fight. Rationalism is parasitic, etc. I'm still digesting but love this!

Do you happen to have a link or name of the talk by President Holland reference in the beginning of this video?

Would like to find copy of that speech by Holland. Can you give the precise title and date and location?

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

brightspotcdn.byu.edu/67/c1/aa36d17b4efda5341d1de667eee4/a-school-in-zion-jeffrey-r-holland.pdf

James E. Faulconer suggests differences between science, theology, and faith in his book: "Thinking Otherwise: Theological Explorations of Joseph Smith's Revelations" Perhaps this might have some answers for some trying to live in a world of the scientific method while trying to learn to live by the spirit.

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

I'm working on that interview!

1:35:17 dont give in to useless waffling . From within the great divide to the great and spacious building after entering the gate. We need to focus in prayer for Gods spectacles to be well in focus

Greg, was this an old interview? Your guest referred to Elder Holland’s talk “next week” in October. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

No, he meant August. Elder Holland speaks tomorrow.

@cornel8586

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, sorry about that slip. August 23, 2021. (This comes from thinking 2-3 sentences ahead...)

Greg, when was this interview made?

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

Thursday August 19, 2021

I think I can clear up what needs to be added to Pres. Kimball's statement about being bilingual. There is an assumption he made. He assumed the other language would be of a field of study that was seeking truth. Being bilingual with that never produces this tendency for one to override the other. The language of wokeness and critical theory is incompatible because that is a language that is seeking power. The person or organization that doesn't recognize that or actually seeks power will help that language overpower the spiritual language in themselves. The person with spiritual discernment, on the other hand, will recognize that will for power and reject it and its language.

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent and on point!

Do BYU faculty have to be church members?

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

Being a church member has little to do with it.

@scottbrandon9390

2 жыл бұрын

@@CwicShow There is no tenure at BYU so how are faculty getting away with this?

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

@@scottbrandon9390 The gatekeepers are "open" to this and many want BYU to be in lockstep with the academy as a whole.

So Ralph was there when the September Six were fired from BYU in 1993.

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

It would seem so.

@cornel8586

2 жыл бұрын

Sure I was there. But the legend of "September 6" tends to glorify those who lost their jobs, weren't retained, etc, and simplifies what actually happened.

@BarbieHitsBack

2 жыл бұрын

@@cornel8586 I would love to know what actually happened to “September Six” from a trusted source like yourself. Maybe @Cwic will have you back. This was certainly one of the most informative podcasts about BYU and it’s left slant that I’ve watched in a very long time. Thanks to both yourself and Greg.

Coryamtamere, was offered power by the devil, that's what he does, is temptation. The weak minded take this rout because it's easy, and they would destroy everything to have power. Basically in finding God, and going through the transformations, is just pure joy, and satisfaction, they don't have, or they do self harm and harm others. They don't have a good example because the gospel isn't taught to them, and they being lied to can not know the truth. Translation comes when God puts you in a situation to play out the gospel, and his view is that of carnal man.

Does anyone else get the sense that Professor Hancock is overly careful about parsing his words?

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know about "overly". I would say prudent. I believe he is one of the best voices at BYU.

@bryanhaycock672

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. I agree, he is a great voice at BYU, but he is clearly avoiding certain words and phrases. He appears to be trying to avoid being “pegged” as belonging to one side or the other of these issues. He said himself he doesn’t want to call himself conservative, while at the same time holding conservative views. I get the complexity of “classical” liberalism vs modern conservatism. Still, he appears to not want to say anything that might bring unwanted attention to himself from either the university or perhaps the media. I can’t help but wonder if Dr. Hancock’s rhetorically distanced style of discussing the problem of Critical praxis being taught at BYU can have any impact at all towards defending the institution in the here and now.

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

@@bryanhaycock672 Not at all. Everyone knows who he is at BYU and what he stands for.

The Church will eventually divest from the BYU cesspool.

I think prior going to BYU, the kids must have a testimony of Jesus Christ already

@CwicShow

2 жыл бұрын

I think most do.

It's not complicated, test the philosophies of those you hire and stop being afraid of the left. Many Christian schools in California do a better job and its embarrassing. BYU should be the example, not them. BYU is a private school, this could be cleaned up overnight if leaders cared.

@violetangelflame1

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, BYU should be the leading example on Christian universities. I don't understand. Do these professors that are being hired have to have a temple recommend. Do they even have to belong to the church. This infatuation needs it's swamp drained.

I wonder why my comments are never posted? I'll try again. I notice that universities like Hillsdale and Prager U never give in to societal trends or unGodly doctrine. Why us? Not only the political environment, but evolution in the science dept. and church history revisionism and incorrect geography in religion depts. When I attended BYU, we had a geology prof who taught evolutional development and timeline. He was fired. One cannot utilize discernment if not exposed to true facts. Also in agreement about the true scientific evidence of the 'innoculation'.

@davidswanson5669

2 жыл бұрын

It’s possible that Prager U is new enough that they have always been able to harshly vet any applicants, but that if they had been around as long as BYU (and if they were an actual university with a huge range of disciplines) they might start seeing it as well. As for Hillsdale, while older than BYU, they also have a more concentrated student body (1,500 as compared to BYU’s 33,000) and a smaller staff so it’s again easier to vet and keep close tabs on any kind of shifting. Also I’d argue that BYU is more of a target for opposing powers, who see it as a key source of moral competency in the world.

does my monies of my tith go to byu?

@sheamusmahoney8978

2 жыл бұрын

Yes

@06leeann

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Another question If tithing is used why do I feel someone is not making good choices with our tithes

@darrenalbertson-digitaldus6227

2 жыл бұрын

@@06leeann I know what you are getting at, but please keep in mind, once your donation is made it no longer belongs to you.

@06leeann

2 жыл бұрын

@@darrenalbertson-digitaldus6227 I’m curious what you think I’m getting at

Specialisation gives people greater knowledge.. not superficial

@Veevslav1

2 жыл бұрын

There is the concept of transferable skills. The skills can be transferable from one field of study to another or one philosophy to another. It also leads to a more well rounded individual with greater understanding and empathy than what you get from specialization. Take a look at most of the great breakthroughs that occurred in technology and science... It came about because of multi-disciplinary learning and application.

@charinabottae

2 жыл бұрын

Increasing specialization is increasingly myopic. It has it's place, but is inherently detrimental to understanding the whole.

@charinabottae

2 жыл бұрын

@@RAF71chingachgook I don't think that's a fair assessment. It may narrow the scope, but it deepens the understanding. The danger Elder Holland was speaking of was not specialization itself, but "hyper specialization" that precludes the ability to maintain the bigger picture.

@larrybates8291

2 жыл бұрын

Depends on how many definitions you can give to the word “is”, right. Bill Clinton can speak very fluently to the idea of greater specialization, wouldn’t you agree?

Obvious candidate for x1.25 speed.

Play jumangi don't try to be God because generally you will be trying to beat God.