This could be a seasonal recurring series -there’s so many new budget cards being printed and staples being reprinted into lower prices to hear about!

@hainzyy

7 ай бұрын

I think this would be an awesome mini series within the show. I agree

@StarkSkies

7 ай бұрын

More engagement supporting this idea!

@amphilochusofmallus5070

2 ай бұрын

Also think this is a fantastic idea

Its a shame that Dana isnt here this week since he'd for sure have a dozen out of pocket replacements from the back catalogue of forgotten magic cards to replace these staples with.

31:03 I find "Safe Passage" to be an amazing common, you can use it defensively, offensively to attack into things with first/doube-strike and deathtouch without worry or as a response to direct damage or board wipe damage spells it is just VERY underrated.

Advantages to playing Storm the Seedcore: - It’s only 4 mana - It involves counters - Gives creatures Vigilance *and* Trample - BANGER ART

@unseeliedream42

7 ай бұрын

that art is a masterpiece indeed

@irreleverent

7 ай бұрын

I just want to know when we get a secret lair with the reference image for it as art.

@thekagemaster

7 ай бұрын

*Obuun liked that*

@Oxygen1004

6 ай бұрын

Still should have been a battle art ngl

My favorite Rhystic Study replacement has to be Ghostly Pilferer. Draw off every commander cast, impulse draw, cascade, discover, flashback, etc etc. Also can become unlockable to hold equipment or steal the Monarch / Initiative. For less than a gumball.

@elcapitanofthemtn

7 ай бұрын

Have Ghostly Pilferer in my Sefris deck and hard agree that it is sneaky strong drawing cards. You get it done Turn 2 before everybody has had a chance to play their Commanders and you’re likely getting 3 draws off it. And for Sefris in particular you can pitch cards to its unblockable effect to trigger Sefris every turn!

@richardjohnson8991

2 ай бұрын

Good find I'm gonna have to try this one out

LOST MY MIND at the Cauldron of Souls suggestion in Jasmine Boreal of the Seven. Real big brain play there. Well done.

@ShinyNachos

7 ай бұрын

Right?!! Wonderful chaos energyyyyy!

@zwalkover

7 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! I absolutely love it in my list, and I love seeing my opponent's reactions even more.

19:47 I play Korvold, and what you said here absolutely blew my mind 😂 he is my only dragon. I'm gonna go see if I have crux of fate now 😊

THANK YOU GUYS! I've been waiting for an episode like this for a long time!

Not only is this video the whole single reason why I build my new decks at a budget of a pre-con deck, budget replacements also makes sure to find obscure synergies that feel even better than casting a good ol' "staple"!

There is a fantastic plethora of budget pump effects and many made in recent years for specific strategies. My favorite that I've seen is Blossoming Bogbeast - 5 mana for a 3/3 that when attacks gain 2 life, then your creatures get trample and +X/+X equal to amount of life gained this turn. It's bonkers good! For generically good pump creature, one that I like is Earthshaker Giant - 6 mana for 6/6 trampler ETB other creatures you control get +3/+3 and trample for the turn.

I really like Dawn Charm as a budget replacement for Teferi’s protection. For 61 cents the fog and counter effect saves you from a ton of wincons and no one sees it coming. The “protect your board” effect is a lot easier to replace as you’ve already shown but not the other effects of teferi’s protection.

Lets freaking go!!! I only build budget decks, and I love finding random cards that are great alternatives. Most things I find are the same as the staples, but they’re 1-2 more mana.

For finishers, I really like Candlekeep Inspiration for Decks like Octavia and Talrand, not a common effect in blue

41:30 another "Rhystic Study" I would like to suggest is Insight. It has the exact same mana cost, but instead of, "do you pay the 1?" it's guaranteed card draw for each green spell an opponent casts (and we all know how common green is). In a similar category (draw), a substitute for Sylvan Library can easily be Compost and/or Virdian Revel; the former draws you a lot against many self-mill/rummage decks, while the latter draws you cards when your opponents sacrifice their treasures (or you Vandalblast them).

I've started to think about board wipes the same way I do creatures. Your 4 mana wraths are your vanilla board wipes, cheap do the thing but absolutely nothing else. Then you hit the 6 mana wipes and suddenly they have all these cool new interesting effects or synergies or even upsides. As the demise of the vanilla creature approaches, I can see board wipes taking a similar path.

Plague of Vermin with Ayara of Lockthwain on the board makes everyone excited the first three times. After that, it needs a new home.

My challenge got used? Best episode ever!

The first challenge the stats may be my favorite ever !

Damn, that Challenge was SMOOTH!!!

In reckless endevor: If you loock at other wraths in Red from about 3-5 Mana ITS about 1 DMG per Mana spend (Anger of the gods, burn down the house, storms wrath). For that reason If you get a combinde 7 on both D12 you are in the Same rate as the other wraths. Lets say you roll a 3 and a 4 (3+4=7) you would have either spend 7-3=4 Mana to get 4 DMG or 7-4=3 Mana to get 3 dmg. Both are the normal rate. Also the expected value of one D12 is 6,5. Theater for reckless endevor is expected to be about twice as good one a Mana to DMG as a normal wrath (6,5*2=13 and 7 is the normal expected rate)

Yo, I thought Tavern Brawler was an auto-include in Faldorn decks. It's a great card! (I also use it in my mono-red dragons for the extra draw) 🎉

A bit glossed over in the talk of Midnight Clock, but the reason it's so good isn't just because it's a mana rock that can refresh your hand, but that in EDH you only have to wait 3 turn cycles in a four player game to get that bonus. In a high power game of course that might be three turns too much, but in casual games you can very easily dump your hand then get a full grip when the clock strikes twelve.

Jesus, this challenge the stats transition was smooth on a whole other level

An honorable mention for a free blue counterspell is Foil. You have to pitch an Island and another card but it's any spell and it essentially acts as a budget force of will

As someone who recently built a Jasmine deck that I absolutely love, I am 10000000% going to be slotting Cauldron of Souls in. Thank you lads!

Joey has never spat more pure fire than when he was talking about 'Overrun' effects ! In cEDH Craterhoof [elfball] gives the best pay off due to not many decks playing a high creature count. Which means you don't need to worry about blocking. But 100% agree Decimator is a cast trigger and can be really cheap whereas Endraze gives you the ability to keep up your guard. TBH God-Eternal Rhonas is pretty darn good too!

This transition to the stats was great. More creativity, less/ no fighting about it.

During the Tavern Brawler in Faldorn bit, I couldn't help but think of the 4th, 5th and Legends card Eternal Warrior, 1 Red, Enchant Creature, Vigilance. Tavern Brawler your Faldorn and still get to use its tap ability on Main 2.

A card i want to bring up is "Hunger of the Nim" a sorcery for 1B, for "target creature to gets +×/+0 equal to the number of artifacts you control." with so many food, clues, treasure, blood, maps, mana rocks, etc. floating around, this card really ought to be in more decks cause if you slap it on a evasive creature you can get someone out of left field. Plus you can boost your artifact count with the artifact lands, especially the indestructable ones at very little cost to your deck, and liquimetal torque can give an extra boost too as an on board trick.

Would love to see more like this! Shame Dana couldn't spot some gems in this one.

the cauldron of souls challenge is so clever!

Surprised Foil and/or Daze weren't mentioned as Fierce Guardianship alternatives

@janmelantu7490

7 ай бұрын

Commander players don’t play around Daze enough

@Oxygen1004

6 ай бұрын

@@janmelantu7490Mana tithe goes into all my white decks for the same reason

I recently played a Baral, Chief of Compliance deck with Caged Sun, it was ridiculous

Really liked this video, we always go for the format staples but having other options is welcomed. Please more of this type of content!! +1

I love playing Perplexing Test and Faerie Slumber Party in my Shorikai vehicles deck!

38:00 it's what makes edh so fun for me. If you're persuasive, you're able to talk to a table and make a good card bad.

ive been playing gavi, nest warden (which, uh, already comes with fierce guardianship but) ive found that artistic refusal, the 6 mana convoke counterspell from MOM works just as well as fierce guardianship if your deck makes enough creatures to convoke it. hell, for gavi specifically its even better than fierce, because it lets me draw 2 and discard 1 on top of countering the spell, which is exactly what the deck wants.

For overrun effects, if you have a big creature, regardless of color, consider Dragon Throne of Tarkir. It works just as well with Valduk as it does with Ghalta.

Midnight clock is just sooo goood. After playing it for like 5 months in a couple of my blue decks people in my pod start to use removal on it because it definetely can win games.

After listen to your suggestions on challenge the Stats for awhile. I just want to say I've cut my 2 main win cons from Riku of two Reflections (craterhoof behemoth and Purphoros) and replaced them with Candlekeep inspration and mercadia's downfall. Both cards have surpassed my expectations.

Raise the Palisade is a great replacement for cyclonic rift in tribal decks. It's a sorcery but also only 5 mana

Funny enough, just a few weeks ago I made the same sheoldred into overseer swap in my Meren+Umori deck!

Also a fan of Vivien's Stampede. 6 mana, Vigilance, Trample, Melee (so usually +2/+2 at least) and also draw up to 3 cards. If it was 5 mana it would be perfect, but i still find it not bad at 6

For my Otharri deck, instead of running some high power creatures for tempo swings, Im running a half dozen Mercadian Masques rebels.

Great video. In past i play Ryhstic Study in 60 cards deck kitchen table format with friends and after sometime they add specific enchanment removel spells to remove enchanment. I had what time two in deck. What is better what Ryhstic study having two of them on battlefield. Also my deck was runing 4 Counterspell. It was fun when someone was try destroy or counterspell study and didn't pay one and i draw counterspell 😂😂😂. It is true what some cards put target on your back or hate from others player.

In the spirit of keywords I made a new keyword among cards I mock up that gets around a bounce effect called "Rooted" and goes like so, "Spells or abilities cannot return this permanent to its owners hand or be put into its owners libraries." I think this effect is a needed ability that can be put on anything. Spells can apply it to permanents at instant speed. Creatures can give blanket Rooted effects to a certain permanent type and can also be abused, the list goes on. I do hope in the future something like this keyword shows up.

Just on the thumbnail I see lapse of certainty. I use it in my broom stoutarm deck. Has helped my win con land twice now

Lapse of certainty is one of my favorite protection spells in my Brion Stoutarm deck

I would love to see a whole episode on 3 mana rocks, because I think they get way too much hate! Especially if you have a 5 CMC commander, since it curves you into your commander the same way it would from 2 mana rock to 4 mana general. Also I’ve had so much success with cards like The Celestus in my Celestine deck

Blustersquall is like a tapped version of Cyc rift and can work in a similar way

In my Hans deck i Had am realy good overrun: Blasphemos Act! I Had Vigor since Turn 3 (solring into rythem of the wilds into Hans with haste)

Wylls reversal is a great replacement for deflecting swat

I live for these episodes.

I like to use awesome presence instead of aqueous form and pair it with a single land destruction land for a final Blow when my enemy feel safe because they ve kept 3 mana up

For a more budget Berserk, I really like the underappreciated Blood Frenzy. In multiplayer, you can maximize the power when Opponent A attacks Opponent B by pumping the damage and then destroying the creature.

Lots of good budget green staples listed here.

Martial coup, one of my all time favorite moments in Commander, next turn cast my partner commander Prava of Steel legion, a Doran Siege Tower, and on attacks....tower defense

I play hoof, stampede, and forerunners in my faldorn deck.

It's crazy Dockside Extortionist is so expensive considering it comes in a PreCon, Mystic Intellect

Low-key, I live for these, high-key

Joey you convinced me to swap out Torment of Hailfire for Wake the Dead and I haven't looked back.

The way you feel about deadly tempest is the way I feel about Expel the Interlopers over farewell

Ooooooo I caught this one early hell yeah.

I just brought up last week to my group that Smothering Tithe might not be as good as we think it is. Like you said, Thran Dynimo gives you as much mana as if each opponent gave you one treasure, and yet it's not going to draw the hate that Smothering Tithe does.

@Controlqueen31

7 ай бұрын

Smothering Tithe gets better when the table is high lvl/cEDH. In a format that everyone draws 2/3/4 cards each rotation easily, you can get like 10 treasures the next turn after you play it. In lower levels I agree with you, play a Thran Dynamo or a Worned Powerstone instead.

I can only say that Durnan with passionate archeologist is one of my favorite decks

"Only the edhrec cast likes backgrounds" Me, who plays at least three backgrounds in sefris and prosper: "Is this a job offer?"

Makindi is a nice pump that is also a land drop if you need to. Sure it gives no keyword but how often do we have an useless overrun effect in hand ? It's quite they're winmore doom

I am amazed how much I overlooked Tavern Brawler. I feel really dumb for not noticing that you can play the card this turn. My blindness makes me look stupid :P

I really like Blood on the Snow, boardwipe and i can even get something i destroy with it

Unless you're explicitly playing cEDH it's not only unnecessary to run the optimal cards, it's often counter-productive to be too sweaty. People enjoy playing against a mix of cards.

Tooth and nail is 2 dollars.

Not being a hater but am kinda curious if podcasts like this fuel into the hate of some of these staples, especially for new players? Sure seeing a rift for the 50th time as a veteran is gonna get a lil tiring but for a new player that’s a really cool moment. When newer players are watching or listening to podcasts like this it kinda takes away the moment before it even happens for them. I’m not a new player but I was listening to podcasts before I pulled a craterhoof. I’ve never played it though since it seems played out or lame even though I’ve never seen it on the board.

Crystal ball instead of Sensei's diving top for me.

Is there a reason that we're going out of our way to not namedrop Shuffle up and Play?

38:38 Eat your veggies- joey Schultz

I need a tool where I can paste my deck list, and it tells me which cards can be replaced with cheaper options. Do any exist?

I replaced Moonshaker Cav with Abzan Falconer

mob rule is amazing, i've win some couple of games because of that

TLDR: It's worth considering the way we have conversations around "salty" cards and whether the conversations are being fully explored from more than one perspective. I really don't love the conversation around "salty" cards, especially when in the same sentence it's acknowledged that decks need these effects. It always really feels like poor sportsmanship is being validated. In my experience, it leads to blind games with people who had bad experiences with a select few cards, or worse, have little to no practical experience but have heard from content creators that certain cards are or should be viewed in certain ways. Budget is always a valid conversation topic, but it feels like a lot of times "salty" cards are talked about in a vacuum, from one perspective, with no counter arguments, or if counter arguments are acknowledged, they're hand waived in almost the same sentence. EDITED FOR SPELLING AND GRAMMAR

I don't know. I think the intro hit its Swan Song too soon.

My favorite deck is just Teferis protection and every card remotely similar to it.

37:36 "My most expensive card is 9 mana. That means I only need 9 lands in my deck, right?"

You mentioned the expense of Cryptolith Rite - Song of Freyalise can arguably be more powerful in some cases, giving you two turns of the creatures tapping for mana effect and then once you've utilized that, it gives you a boardwide pump effect to help you turn the corner

Another good budget replacement for Dockside Extortionist -- although you have to be playing green -- is a six cmc giant. Whenever is enters the battlefield or attacks you can put two lands from your library into play tapped. It's obviously not as efficient as Dockside because it costs 6 mana and it's not as exploitable because the lands come into play tapped but it is a lot of value on a creature.

@thoshinoshi

7 ай бұрын

Primeval titan is banned in commander

@imaginarymatter

7 ай бұрын

@@thoshinoshi I was trying to make a joke about how Prime Time should be unbanned.

I have a friend that used to have jin-gitaxias in his deck but it's been played atleast 10 more times by his opponents with bribery than by him 🤣🤣🤣

Off rip i gotta say I've always found the salt issue with Craterhoof to be incredibly silly. Like, if you're trying to present a wincon (which you should because winning during the game without actually winning sucks for everyone if you take forever), why on earth does it matter if I'm gumming up the board and casting Overrun instead of Craterhoof? Why does it matter if i make infinite tokens and swing in or make my team big and evasive? They result in the exact same thing in damn near the exact same way. It's just utterly silly to me. Now budget alternative on the other hand, that makes sense.

Aaaaand the prices went due to the video lmao

in the cyclonic rift section, maybe even teferi's protection in that it keeps you from dieing, i actually looove aetherize and aetherspouts. Make that alpha strike against you turn into a board wipe for that 1 person

Craterhoof isn't that scary, y'all.. just run fogs.

Replace everything with tutorable 2 card combos and tutors. Reduce deck size to 10 cards. Problem solved.

Three sets of Ixalan and no reprint of Dockside Extortionist, shame on you Wizards!

“Are you gonna package your snazziest commander in a crappy deck box?” Uh… yes. My most expensive deck is carried around in a bundle box with 2 other decks.

I feel like you guys missed the primary advantage with cycrift being instant speed AND one sided. Tegwyll's Scouring should be mentioned in this regard.

The level of cognitive dissonance around Craterhoof is astounding to me. You need finishers, friends. If you're in a budget deck, that's different. If you're bored of it, fine. But don't play Overwhelming Stampede or similar cards and pretend you aren't playing the same thing. Nobody wants to sit at the same game for 3 hours while we build impenetrable build states. Might as well be playing stax at that point. The best thing about a Craterhoof effect is that I get to play a new game, regardless of whether or not I'm the one playing the card.

Backgrounds are horrible it relies on your commander being around and does nothing without it

storm the seedcore is not a finisher lmao you get 4 power . if you give your creatures +2/+2 over four creatures that's at least 8 power. more of a midrange attack and you get some value in your counters deck

It's called a printer. Ask your Mom or Dad if they know where one might be.

No, Lapse of Certainty and Caged Sun are NOT by any stretch of fantasy "budget replacements" for PAY-TO-WIN cards like Teferi's Protection and Smothering Tithe. LOL at the pathetic attempt to compare counterspells and mana doublers to stax-mongers and Treasure-pukers.

Lapse of certainty compared to teferi’s protection is absurd. Not even close by any comparison

I dislike one-sided wipes so stinking much. every game just devolves into every player digging for their version of it. so boring

@dominicsandoval2214

7 ай бұрын

Interesting, In my meta. We run a lot of protection spells and recursion. Sometimes you only need one turn to rebuild. One sided board wipes are great