Wow a bishop that actually seems like a nice guy and talks in a way a regular person can understand. Thats rare.

The problem was the Council in its attempts to make peace with the world.

"Knocking off the barnacles" was exactly the Protestant term. I reject it.

I've heard so many people who were discerning Christianity say this was one of the reasons they chose Orthodoxy over Catholicism. Now of course this shouldn't be the be all and end all of what determines the legitimacy of a faith, but Catholics are absolutely right to be concerned about it and it's completely logical that, if you're discerning Christianity and you see the church itself disrespecting the sacraments people will think "I need to go elsewhere". At the end of the day I feel it comes down to people believing their enjoyment should be central during Mass. It shouldn't. Mass should be centered around God, not man. And God deserves our utmost reverence, and reverence can be found in the TLM.

@andrejgrebenc3235

2 жыл бұрын

Orthodox liturgy is always in local language, so people understand it. (Greek, Russian, Aramaic, Ethiopian...)

@andrejgrebenc3235

2 жыл бұрын

Eucharist is centered both around God and around people. How did Jesus celebrate it? Eucharist is a sign of redemption based on Jewish Passover seder that was always celebrated at home around the table. Jesus celebrated it with the apostles that way.

@drkissinger1

2 жыл бұрын

In my anecdotal experience, sex abuse has been the number one issue cited by people who choose Orthodoxy over Catholicism. It’s a truly demonic stain.

@hiuszenoom809

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrejgrebenc3235 Divine Liturgy and Mass are both about sacrifice of Christ. Please, this nothing to do on languages but how apostles instructed us to do liturgies since St. Chrysostom. You still see same theological seasons on Divine Liturgy: 6 candles, tabernacle and sacred scriptures all put on altar. You are not the person to determine how the liturgy should perform but God determines how should it performs. Your opinion more self-center than serving God.

@hiuszenoom809

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrejgrebenc3235 Also you are not consecrated with Christ. You are not his discipline. Priests are consecrated with Christ directly because of his priesthood that’s why he face the altar. Not you.

Thank you for hosting Bishop McCaig. He truly gets it. That was the most coherent, charitable, and accurate discussion I have heard on the contentious topic that is tearing the Church.

After seeing what Bugnini did to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in detail it just affirmed the instinctual feeling I have had my entire life in response to every NO mass I went to. This was even with no blatant abuses. That feeling was complete emptiness and a complete absence of wonder. The TLM converted me back and continues to inspire me. Fr. James Jackson said it best in his book “Nothing Superfluous” when he wrote: “The Gregorian Rite excites in me a great wonder in the sense of a classical definition of wonder, which might be as follows, ‘Wonder is the passion that arises from consciousness of ignorance…this consciousness leads to the seeking of knowledge of things in their causes…the rite of St. Gregory almost forces me to learn more of God, to seek Him in the ordinary things of this Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.”

@derechoplano

2 жыл бұрын

"That feeling was complete emptiness and a complete absence of wonder." Yes, yes, YES!!! As a Catholic, I have to go to Novus Ordo mass every week. There are no Latin masses in my country. But I really find that the NO mass FEELS something empty and useless. It feels like a bore. I only go out of a sense of duty.

@admiralbob77

Жыл бұрын

There is no "Gregorian rite." If you mean the use of Gregorian chant, there are parishes in the ordinary form that sing it - the same Roman Gradual used in the extraordinary form. Mine does.

@FindingFaith1

21 күн бұрын

@@derechoplano I too have no Latin Mass in my area, so I am dutifully attending, but it’s aweful and it makes me weep. Hang in there, Brother In Christ, 🫡. Maybe try talking to your Priest or Bishop about your pastoral needs. That’s what I’m planning on doing.

I personally think going through a Tridentine Mass in 20 minutes pales in comparison to the outright heresy we see in those countless "Novus Ordo cringe compilations" that are floating around KZread. Give me a 20 minute Tridentine Mass over people honoring mother earth during Mass, or a foolish Irish priest who has invited an imam to chant an Islamic prayer during Mass ANY DAY.

@here_we_go_again2571

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! Although, to be fair, I have attended reverent NO masses However, the behavior of those attending mass has gotten worse over the years.

I can no longer buy this comparison that a rushed TLM is equally an abuse as the things that happen at Novus Ordo Masses. The two kinds of abuse are simply not even close to each other. The issue with Priests occasionally rushing/reciting the Latin Mass is like a husband who come home only to ignore his wife, not paying her due attention and devotion. A sadness for sure and a sign of a struggling marriage, but not one that cannot be reconciled. The Bubble/Guitar/Clown abuses in the Novus Ordo are like a husband who comes home and beats his wife - everyday - without guilt. The two kinds of abuse are so incomparable.

@trad-lite

2 жыл бұрын

...you forgot to add the part about priests rushing through a TLM and then taking their time to sexually abuse young boys and girls. I'm sure that had no impact at all on the Church 🙄

@neckpains1821

2 жыл бұрын

@@trad-lite complete derail, we're talking about liturgical abuse, sexual abuse is a topic of it's own

@TomLandry1

2 жыл бұрын

@@trad-lite - A sad tragedy. But IF we were going to be honest here, we'd have to ADMIT that the SAME prelates who gave us Novus Ordo and the rest of the Revolution also gave us Seminaries full of Sodomite predators, and Also PROTECTED their homosexual Priest and Religious friends who were abusing altar boys and other vulnerable young men. That is - IF we were going to be HONEST about it....... :-(

@MrAquinas1

Жыл бұрын

@@trad-lite What a childish abuse of your own to bear false witness through a baseless accusation.

@trad-lite

Жыл бұрын

@@MrAquinas1 it happened. Everywhere. Where have you been?

Contemporary music for many people means the worn out music from the '70s and '80s that just keeps getting played over and over even though some of it is not very theologically correct.

@derechoplano

2 жыл бұрын

It is the music of the times when these bishops were young. For them, it is "youth's music" and "contemporary music". Their narcissism does not let them see that this is "grandpa's music".

@TomLandry1

2 жыл бұрын

@@derechoplano - Amen. Its mind blowing to be told that 1950's/60's style "Folk" music, or 1970's style "Sesame street" style music is "contemporary". Actual "Contemporary" music today is mostly very vulgar and basically pornographic in its themes and lyrics.... :-(

As a Protestant (Presbyterian), I can relate. "Presbyterians" are supposed to have pretty strict "liturgical" worship service called the Regulative Principles of Worship. We violate all the time.

Nice to hear this Bishop say let us get back to Jesus' teachings and commands. Bravo.

@richard8242

2 жыл бұрын

Where do you get your instruction on what Jesus teaches and commands?

@anthonym.7653

2 жыл бұрын

@@richard8242 Scripture.

@richard8242

2 жыл бұрын

@@anthonym.7653 Do you believe that the book of Romans is scripture?

@anthonym.7653

2 жыл бұрын

@@richard8242 yes

Matt's point about a person converting to Catholicism and then worrying, fearful about what church they go to after worries me too.

I lived during the implementation of V2, and not just in one diocese, or one parish, but in many places and different States. The new Mass was still an infant when I was born. The Council was foisted on the "People of God" with iron clubs and spiked boots. Anyone who questioned the Council, or even just expressed affection for what came before was shamed, brutally brow beaten into silence or driven from the Church. There was no mercy, no tolerance, no patience, no understanding, no compassion. We were thrown out of parishes and schools for having the audacity to believe in the Real Presence, or the perpetual virginity of Mary. "We don't believe those things anymore," we were told and thrown out. The Mass was regularly abused - not just said badly, but diverged so much from our missals that sometimes we couldn't even follow along. Often the priest would be so "creative" we wondered if the Sacrament was even valid. And then there was the Communion Indult. I lived through that, I will not forget. Priests flatly refused to give Communion on the tongue ("We don't do it that way anymore. This is more sanitary.") First Communicants were not taught to receive on the tongue, we were threatened and shamed into receiving in the hand ("your grandparents are coming a long way to see you and if you do not put your hand out Father will not give you Communion. You wouldn't want that, would you? Of course not, it would embarrass your whole family.") For wanting the same Faith as our grandparents we were ridiculed. For defending the teachings the Church has always taught we were labeled reactionaries - we had a bad attitude, we were ungrateful, spiteful, mean spirited, schismatic. There are multiple reason so many have left, and the refusal to give up sin is only one of them. If your clergy heap spiritual and verbal abuse on you why should you stay? Because God is prisoner in the tabernacle? That has kept me in my pew, but not most. This is the true legacy of that Council. It wasn't implemented badly, it was designed to be used a certain way by anyone with the inclination to do so - and no one stopped them. Half a century later clown Masses are still a thing and people don't realize that receiving in the hand is not the normative way, in fact until the 70s it was discouraged. It did not come from the Council. Flipping the altar to face the people did not come from the Council. Mass completely in the vernacular did not come from the Council. Rejecting traditional hymns did not come from the Council.

@derechoplano

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your testimony. I cannot add anything that makes it better. Thank you.

@rtyria

2 жыл бұрын

@@carolynkimberly4021 The Council opened the door, that's true. The "spirit of the Council" is the most wicked creation I've ever seen. Anything and everything was justified by claiming it came from the "spirit of v2". My mother's response to that once was golden, "Don't we believe in the Holy Spirit anymore?" Implying, of course, that this new spirit was anything but.

@Hiwatt100W1

2 жыл бұрын

I had the same experience. VCII almost became the object of worship instead of the Almighty. It came about in the heady revoultionary times of the 60's, and the resultant liturgy is maudlin and banal.

I appreciate the take from the Bishop. My question to him would be: which Holy Mass is ordered unto treating Christ with more reverence? Another way to ask the question: which Holy Mass can consistently provide the reverence that Christ deserves? I know he means well when he speaks of a mass to evangelize the world. This is not the primary point of our Holy Mass. The Mass calls down Christ to be crucified and die for us so that we may receive HIM. And for this reason, our utmost reverence and worship of the Lord is first and foremost the priority, the world will be drawn to His Glorious Light by this very reason.

@TomLandry1

2 жыл бұрын

AMEN!! And, we seem to forget (or deny) that the form of Mass that, in point of fact, DID Evangelize most of the world was not Novus Ordo - but the allegedly deficient Traditional Latin Mass.

The Novus Ordo Mass Churches I attend, both near home and on vacation, and watch online, are beautiful. Some of these other churches with the abuses we hear about is heartbreaking. How can it be fixed? It's not necessary to go back to Latin Mass exactly, but I think the Novus Ordo needs to unify, beautify as you discussed, and abuses stopped.

@watermelontreeofknowledge8682

2 жыл бұрын

Novus ordo is really spiritually deprived, so much of the symbolism and devotion is stripped out to make way for the lay participation. You might find it beautiful, but it’s hard to say it’s just as beautiful as a TLM where the sanctity of the sacrament is built into everything from the numerology, the Trinitarian rituals, the Christocentric lectionary, the musical settings, the emphasis on and crescendo of the Sacrifice of the Mass… all of these things are really lacking in even a reverent Novus Ordo. We’d be better off reforming the NO altogether to something more in-line with tradition

@JohnFromAccounting

2 жыл бұрын

The best Novus Ordo still falls short of the traditional Mass. There is a good reason why Pope Benedict called the 1970 liturgy the "Ordinary Form" and the ancient liturgy the "Extraordinary Form".

@hiuszenoom809

2 жыл бұрын

The problem is the liturgical abuses and errors deepened in the Novus Ordo Mass, which was originated from Protestants and Freemasons corruptions. Novus Ordo is a "serving-men" liturgy, not serving God.

@drkissinger1

2 жыл бұрын

I agree strongly that the core of the Novus Ordo is beautiful and very salvageable. The things that make it irreverent are accretions that are easily removed, from show tunes to receiving in hand.

@drkissinger1

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t disagree with you that I find TLM more personally edifying, but the intention of those words is simply “usual” and “unusual”, not a statement of quality.

Better to rattle through the Tridentine Mass, then being Intentional about Self-Actualization, for an hour and a half at the NO.

@RickW-HGWT

2 жыл бұрын

Don't forget " centering prayers " great for those deep rem sleep naps in church.

The Bishop raises a good point in that the old Tridentine Mass was abused at times as well, but usually not. And certainly not to the extent that the Novus Ordo is. I mean, no wonder vocations are in the drink, there is no sense of wonder or the mystical in the modern Church under Francis. Thank God that the Traditional Mass is still alive, and thank God that the Church still has the Eastern Rites as an alternative to the banal liturgy and focus of Francis's Church.

A short mass is not necessarily an irreverent one. With everything that goes on today in the average mass, the fact that the only what aboutism regarding TLM that can be brought up is "oh it was done quickly" is quite revelatory.

@rtyria

2 жыл бұрын

I've also heard complaints about priests not knowing their Latin and so saying things wrong, and people not knowing what was going on. These complaints are equally revelatory.

@macroglossumstellatarum3068

2 жыл бұрын

@@rtyria Holy Mass is not dependent on the participation of the laity. Latin was one of three languages inscribed on the cross; it is more pleasing to God when we pray in Latin than in English. The laity should be scrambling to learn and pray in Latin. Remember, we truly believe in the metastoichiosis, the transubstantiation of Christs very flesh that we partake! We cannot afford to treat Him who would sacrifice Himself for us with any less reverence than He deserves!

@rtyria

2 жыл бұрын

@@macroglossumstellatarum3068 I know that. I also know that "active participation" meant one thing before the Council and something completely different by the time the Concilium was done with their Mass. Before it was (if I remember right) paying attention to what is going on and joining my own prayer to the Mass - not a conformity of posture and reciting a script in a collective drone. There are a couple of stark differences between the old and new Masses that take some repeat exposure to notice, chief among them being the old Mass is God's work in which we are the one being worked on; in the new Mass it is the people's work and God is the recipient. In the old: God meets you where you are and helps you grow in holiness at your own pace. In the new: "Active participation" demands all attention and conformity of all participants, making it impossible to focus on God on the individual level. We become like Martha at precisely the moment we should be more like Mary. This does not hinder God from drawing His people closer to Him, but it does make it harder for us. The last difference I'll note actually surprised me: The old Mass is considerably more flexible than the new. Last year our bishop declared a year of the Holy Spirit and required all parishes to celebrate the votive Mass of the Holy Spirit on the opening Sunday (which was ... odd - votive Masses cannot normally be said on a Sunday last I knew) but he required it _because the new Mass cannot use more than one Collect._ In the old Mass you can have up to 3 Collects, meaning if certain feast days overlap it can be possible to celebrate one or two as a commemoration, but the new Mass is far too rigid. It can celebrate only one feast day at a time, and the only way it could commemorate the Holy Spirit on that day was to say the votive Mass. That was some serious lack of foresight on Bugnini's part.

This is a broader problem in the west of a lack of confidence in our time honoured traditions and cultural inheritance. I say this as a cultural conservative, from Protestant tradition, but who has come to believe we need a healthy catholic church which believes in itself. The Church of England is in a worse state of trying to be 'relevant', as if centuries of tradition means nothing. Meanwhile young people are converting to the more confident Islamic and 'woke' neo-marxism.

Just because the Novus Ordo may be more like a 5th century Mass does not mean we should go back. The Mass has grown over the years and matured like a tree and stabilized over time. We should not start cutting off branches.

@nuttysquirrel5535

2 жыл бұрын

unless the branches are rotting

@Will-ip8og

2 жыл бұрын

@@nuttysquirrel5535 What specifically was rotting in the TLM?

I think the restoration of Traditional Latin Mass globally should be done by the next council. Pray to that.

God Bless Bishop McCaig. His answers are a great example of what Pastoral means. Reverently in awe and fear discerning what your flock needs and then supplying them that.

@robmusial

2 жыл бұрын

@Anthony The rest of the interview is up on KZread. I do agree that it seemed like Matt wanted the Bishop to say something differently or maybe be _angrier_ (I think we're both picking up on the follow up questions he asked seemingly to nudge him in a direction). But in my estimation this is how a Bishop should act. Level headed, not goaded in to arguing. It really seems like his diocese has room for everyone and he genuinely wants what's best for his people.

Why couldn’t we just do the liturgical reforms that were originally suggested instead of continuing with what we got instead.

Having gone to the Norvos Ordo all my life but now transitioning to the TLM over the past couple of years I simply don't understand why the TLM was disregarded in such a way. I see the reasoning for celebrating Mass in the vernacular so that people can understand what's going on but then why not have the NO for ordinary Sundays and daily Mass while still preserving the TLM for special Feast Days in the Church? That way the newer generations would still be exposed to both, instead of feeling robbed of our heritage.

@Mrs_Homemaker

2 жыл бұрын

They could just say much more of the TLM in the vernacular. There was really no reason to take out over half the prayers.

@jakec947

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mrs_Homemaker I agree.

@rtyria

2 жыл бұрын

I once asked someone why they didn't leave at least one TLM available for people and he said that the bishops didn't because then no one would have gone to the NO. I don't know how true that is, just that I've noticed people tend to prefer conservative changes or no change at all. Radical changes tend to leave most people feeling very unsettled.

@Prohortico

2 жыл бұрын

The Ordinariate Mass - Highly recommend it... It is Essentially a traditional Latin Mass celebrated in English. It came with a group of Anglicans who were welcomed into full unity with the RC Church. If I lived near a Church with this Mass, it would become my home parish. In my view, it should be made available and practiced widely - much more reverent and focused on God than NO.

@Mrs_Homemaker

2 жыл бұрын

@@Prohortico I converted from the Anglican church. It's the NO in better English, to be honest. I was VERY confused about how one was valid (the Catholic NO) and one is not (Anglican church) bc they look and sound the same. Yes most Anglican services are like "unicorn NO" but they aren't like the TLM

I can't take anyone too seriously that says that a Latin mass said quickly (which happens daily in the NO also) is an abuse, especially in comparison to the grave abuses going on.

@stevenstuart4194

2 жыл бұрын

Yah, the abuses are not comparable. A priest might abuse the TLM by rushing through it, but that's merely an issue of pacing. Most of the abuses I've seen deal a blow to the exposition of the faith the liturgy is supposed to afford. Clowns, bubbles, puppet shows, etc. corrupt the prophetic/didactic form of the mass in themselves.

I recently attended a BEAUTIFULLY celebrated Novus Ordo mass by Msgr. Charles Pope for the wedding of his niece, Julia. Ad orientem, incense, excellent homily, tasteful and reverent in every way. This priest sounds like my kind of charismatic yet traditional, faithful son of the Church. Glory to Jesus Christ!

@michaeloakland4665

2 жыл бұрын

*Bishop! I should've said "...this Bishop..." Even more encouraging!

What sources exist to support that the Norvus Ordo is similar to what was done in the 5th century? I would really like to read them. Having recently learned about the Latin Mass, I am shocked how different it is from the NO. I am a convert, and I just thought the NO was just the Latin Mass translated into English but with a few changes (like the priest facing the people). Now that I have experienced the Latin Mass, it is the only thing I want to attend. The prayers are so beautiful and reverent. The Real Presence of Jesus is palpable. When I go to NO it is just filled with so much more noise, both from parishioners talking and music constantly being played, even before during and after communion.

@andrejgrebenc3235

2 жыл бұрын

Not true what you say. Compare both texts and you will see only minor differences. And see how Jesus celebrated it.

@joelpenley9791

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrejgrebenc3235 I have compared both texts as well as attended both masses. I exclusively attended NO masses for over 18 years. I only recently have attended the TLM. The differences are striking and not minor. What do you mean, "see how Jesus celebrated it"? Are you saying Jesus celebrated in a way similar to the NO? I am not sure what you are referring to.

@macroglossumstellatarum3068

2 жыл бұрын

It’s an extreme generalization.

The NO is nothing like Mass in the 5th Century. A 5th century Mass in Rome would look extremely similar to a Tridentine Mass.

This Bishop speaks the truth in such a well-balanced and needed way in God's hyper-polarized Church! I believe he's traveling right down the middle along with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, avoiding the errors of both left and right and helping to foster unity in authentic orthodox Catholicism. Thank you for your ministry!! (Bp. McCaig AND Matt)

As trad, i believe that the Novus Ordo can be reverently celebrated. During the consecration the priest could be mandated to consecrate ad orientum. It would bring in reverence for the eucharist once again.

Best moderate description I’ve heard is that TLM has a high floor and limitless ceiling to the reverence. The NO has a high ceiling but dropped the bottom out. Meaning it’s incredibly vulnerable to corruption. The NO requires a higher level of discipline to keep in line

In the end the responsibility lies with the Bishops to make sure the masses are celebrated with reverence the problem in the end lies with the Bishops period...you either allow it in your diocese or you don't.

@RickW-HGWT

2 жыл бұрын

The bishops are AWOL except for collections, they more the deserve our abuse. Look at how the abuse crisis was and still is being handled moral and intellectual cowards.

@macgrawmarky9654

21 күн бұрын

The bishops of America need to go back to books1. The liturgical abuses I see daily around me are shameful. The Mass should be about Jesus and not the community alone

Quickly rattling off a mass in the TLM is an abuse of time not substance. Also, "worshipful" generally devolves into the worst saccharine, schmaltzy, kitschy Protestant-inspired expressions. New sacred compositions are good - but they must be built upon the aesthetic/theological norms that have made our Western tradition great. The 20th century introduced a fundamental break to the aesthetic norms.

@rtyria

2 жыл бұрын

I've attended plenty of hasty NO Masses. It may be indecently hasty, but it doesn't rise to the level of a liturgical abuse, and sometimes the situation justifies it.

@stevenstuart4194

2 жыл бұрын

@@rtyria Agreed.

@JohnFromAccounting

2 жыл бұрын

I think I'm going to go on a rampage if I hear one more Bob Dylan song with campy Christian lyrics.

Prayers continue for the mystical body of Christ 🌹🙏

I really wish there were more people writing music specifically for mass. Im going through an entire music book filled with mass music and it's 99% terrible 60s and 70s style pop and folk. It's crushingly sad how few modern songs are any good for mass.

@wishIwuzskiing

2 жыл бұрын

It's also not easy to find good organists, which is appropriate for the traditional songs vs. guitars, etc. Think of how few young people are even learning the organ!

@divinecomedian2

2 жыл бұрын

@@carolynkimberly4021 Why not have both old and new? Do you think we can't have good new music?

@divinecomedian2

2 жыл бұрын

@@wishIwuzskiing From what I've heard from our music director, there are plenty of organists and other musicians, but parishes don't want to pay for them!

@wishIwuzskiing

2 жыл бұрын

@@divinecomedian2 thank you for that. We have one that is a paid position but there don't seem to be substitutes available. I don't know any parents whose kids play piano or organ so wondering if there is a coming shortage

@TomLandry1

2 жыл бұрын

Respectfully, there are LITERALLY Hundreds of fabulous Catholic Hymns out there. They didn't magically "expire" when V2 convened! :-) God Bless You!

Why are such priests not being removed from the priesthood? The medicine of punishment for public sin should not only be reserved for politicians (although it must also be applied to them), but should also be given to the Church's pastors. You could even argue that the sin of the pastors is greater, since they sin directly against God.

@TomLandry1

2 жыл бұрын

Sadly, The Church today is quite vigilant in removing Priests who "Fail" to be sufficiently Secular and worldly, but still preach Catholicism without watering it down. I'd suggest that this is a grave indictment of the "men" running The Church these days....... :-(

Great video.

One of the key issues mentioned is that SO many Catholics are very poorly catechized such that there are not many in the congregation who would even be able to say what was not appropriate at a mass and why. Our instinct may tell us something just doesn't feel right or not reverent but the form of the mass and purpose of each element is not well known and understood which gives certain priests LOTS of wiggle room to slowly introduce elements that may be "feel good" and "relevant" but wandering away from a reverent celebration of the Eucharist.

This has to be addressed, *WE DON'T CONVERT ANYBODY* it is Christ Himself alone that converts people; we merely at most *assist* in the conversions; anything else is pure hubris to the level of the very devil itself and is to be categorically rejected forever!

As someone who born in the 80s and fell away from the church for two decades, in returning, my soul cries out wanting to learn more of our traditions. I want to experience communion rails, I've only ever received in the hand, and am scared to change it up. Until earlie last year, I wasn't even familiar with the term Latin Mass, and the first I heard about it seemed scandalously irreverent. I think we need more than just Father Mike Schmitz's upcoming Catechism in a year, though it is will be a great tool. This might sound idiotic, but with Latin Mass not being accessable for me, could there be a well done Latin Mass tour? Having priest in each state that can spend time in each diocese throughout the year, and celebrating a reverent Latin Mass where people are longing for it?

@JohnFromAccounting

2 жыл бұрын

Are you in the US? Take a once a year pilgrimage to a Latin Mass.

@JuanMartinez-xl2oj

2 жыл бұрын

@Pimp My Ditch Witch thanks for the input, I really appreciate it, and will be looking into that!

@JuanMartinez-xl2oj

2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnFromAccounting that's a great idea man, obvious, and profound! That's the plan here in out!

Ha! The Novus Ordo is like a 5th century Mass? Where did they get this guy?

Come back to the real true mass!

Carrying a Pachamama idol into Saint Peter's is not part of the historical tradition of the Church. Neither was Assisi in 1986 et al. Neither is ecumenism as it has been applied by the Conciliar hierarchy.

So nice to see a Canadian Bishop in this space .... Representin' !

@ulysses_grant

2 жыл бұрын

Praying for Canada. Be strong, sister.

@debbie2027

2 жыл бұрын

@@ulysses_grant Back atchya ! ♥🙏

@sophiasaeed2182

2 жыл бұрын

L

@debbie2027

2 жыл бұрын

@@sophiasaeed2182 ?

The best eucharist l attended was a neocatechumenal form. Devine, close to original, and yet complying to VCll. All generations, everyone is active and reverend.

@chommie5350

2 жыл бұрын

Novus Ordo was the brainchild of the freemasons who infiltrated the church in the 60s ....and that's the truth

@andrejgrebenc3235

2 жыл бұрын

@@chommie5350 Prove your claim, please.

@chommie5350

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrejgrebenc3235 what claim ?

If I saw that I will say something If happened to Me LOS.ANGELES, I Told them to stop yelling,and call them HERETIC.

All respect to the Bishop, but a quick mass is not an irreverent one. Im sure Low Mass was said quickly at some points in the 50s but The Novus Ordo did not do away with a quick mass. It depends on the celebrant, ive been to Low Mass today that took over an hour. However, many Novus Ordo daily Masses are said in less then a half hour. I've attended some that have been 20 minutes. Does that automatically mean they're irreverent? Even if so, it's not something the liturgical "reform" has corrected since it still occurs under the Novus Ordo every single day.

Lots of heresy and paganism is being taught.

Why not "both and"? I think the trad RCs would say it is because the TLM wasn't simply translated into English, but the revolutionaries innovated and created something new. I don't think anyone could argue with that thesis. The question is, why didn't they just translate the TLM into English and be done with it? Hmm??

I think it is a fair position to take to say that the Council wasn’t the problem, the Consilium was. Arguing this, however, requires admitting that the Novus Ordo is a product of the Consilium.

@ajmeier8114

2 жыл бұрын

Whom doesn't admit that the NO is a product of the Consilium?

@handsomegiraffe

2 жыл бұрын

Sure, the NO only came after Vatican II was finished. We may never know what the Consilium truly wanted for the reform of the Roman liturgy because Anabale Bugnini manipulated the flow of information to get his way and force his own views on the reforms. See the documentary Mass of the Ages Episode 2 to see in detail.

@ajmeier8114

2 жыл бұрын

@@handsomegiraffe I thing Sacrosanctum concilium is pretty clear in what it wanted

@handsomegiraffe

2 жыл бұрын

@@ajmeier8114 The Consillium and Vatican II are not the same organized body to be clear. Sacrosanctum Concilium is decently clear, but people like Annabale Bugnini used it to wedge in his own ideas far beyond what was actually stated in the document.

@rtyria

2 жыл бұрын

@@handsomegiraffe Let's not forget that he famously played both ends against the middle, claiming to the consilium that the pope wanted this, and then to the pope that the consilium desired that. He lied to both in order to get what he wanted passed.

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

Are we trying to please people now and change our Catholic way to accommodate? Converters should embrace the beauty of our faith as it is. Will we start dancing and clapping now, so they can feel included?

Consecrating pizza and coke? Bubbles? Really? Who? Where? Name parishes, names. Sounds like priests need catechizing. Name them. Who's the overseeing bishop? Name him.

Bishop is spot on. I enjoy young people explaining to elderly life long Catholics how great Pre VII was because of what they heard or read from somewhere. The issue with V2 implementation was how terrible our culture was at the time. Christ is present in the Mass after the consecration regardless of the musical selection you prefer. I once had a dialogue where I simply asked a TLM person what did they like about the NO Mass just to have some charitable back and forth. I had my thoughts on what I liked. Layups for NO = the Collects, more active participation, maybe EP II? etc. Nope. "Nothing. NO is Protestant and heretical." Bishop Strickland said it best: TLM enthusiasts are the biggest road block to TLM enjoyment. I love the TLM, but I cannot abide by Gnostic treatment they have towards it and towards other faithful Catholics. On an aside, Matt discusses wish for greater reverence in our society, and he wears a T-Shirt when meeting an apostolic successor? Some reverence can start with basics that take very little to implement. Habit becomes virtue...

@TomLandry1

2 жыл бұрын

How is the Truth "Gnostic"? Respectfully, Friend, have you taken the time to seriously study and compare the content of the two Masses, or the circumstances under which Novus Ordo was created? I'm a convert - & still a member of a N.O. Parish. But I've spent a lot of time trying to understand what all the liturgical "Fuss" was about. What I found made me question why there was not MORE of a Fuss, and why a lot MORE Catholics were not fussing! :-( If you want to save yourself dozens of hours of reading, Id suggest the first two episodes of the "Mass of the Ages" documentary. They really lay it out well, without exaggeration, hyperventilation, or bravado - just a plain, dispassionate examination. God Bless You!

@mjr4314

2 жыл бұрын

@@TomLandry1 Suggesting the TLM is somehow the only valid Mass which has been stated by others in this stream suggests a Gnostic attitude. The NO is no invalid or illicit, and any suggestion different is completely false according to our Magisterium. I have taken much time through all of the history of both Masses as well as comparing the two. I have no problem with either, and enjoy both. Certainly, the liturgical abuse/laxity in the 70s/80s were not great, but many in the TLM act like the NO is still in that state which is untrue for the vast majority of churches. Some had poor intentions, others were misguided, sadly. I'll take a look at your suggestions. I would suggest for you "Spirit of the Liturgy" by Cardinal Ratzinger (Benedict XVI). May God bless you and yours.

@TomLandry1

2 жыл бұрын

@@mjr4314 - Respectfully friend, I just have a different perspective. Again, I am a convert. Thus I have zero “nostalgia” for anything that happened in the Catholic Church before 2014! I do not contend that N.O. is “invalid“. But I do not think that anyone could seriously deny that it is quite unfortunate. Christ Himself explains this! Matthew 7:15-20. You mentioned the Magisterium, which begs the question: if we believe in the Magisterium then how do we get around “Quo Primum”? How anyone can seriously claim this declaration is not “ex cathedra” is quite beyond me! What could possibly be more central to “faith and morals“ then the liturgy? Or, for that matter, how do we get around even “Sumorum Pontificum”? SP is clearly not “ex cathedra”, but Is the Papacy now a mere political office where each new “president” erases the prior “president”? And I must respectfully, but vehemently, disagree with your contention that liturgical abuse was mostly limited to the past. I find it very much alive and well in the Novus Ordo today. :-( FWIW, I attend the new Mass regularly because I take my obligation seriously AND it is the only Mass available where I live, save two Sundays a month. Do I “like” it? Depends on how you define like! I like it a LOT compared to the protestant services I have attended most of my life! I find it vastly superior! But in all honesty, for me, I cannot point to a single thing in the new Mass that I “like” better, OR that gives more honor to God, than the traditional Mass. I recognize other people may feel differently. But the big point for me is that what I “like” is perhaps the least important issue! You reference the young people praising the TLM to “elderly life long Catholics”, and (perhaps unwittingly) you make a profound point!!! This is who loves the TLM: YOUNG PEOPLE, mostly VERY fervent in their faith lives, and often with larger than average numbers of children. Who are the principle Standard Bearers and attendees of the Bugnini Mass? Elderly prelates , elderly laity, and Catholic laypeople who seldom have more than 2 to 3 children. AND, The Pew report tells us that 6+ leave the Novus Ordo Church for every one who joins, 3/4 reject some or many CORE Catholic Dogmas (like the Real Presence), 80% of their 2.6 children will leave the Novus Ordo Church upon Confirmation, and few will ever return. Which church do you see having a future? God Bless You!

Whose torso is it on Matt's table?

@myleshagar9722

2 жыл бұрын

Lenin???

@ulysses_grant

2 жыл бұрын

@@myleshagar9722 Yeah, it seems like. But why the heck would him have Lenin in his desk?! :s

@levibell97

2 жыл бұрын

That appears to be Frederick Niche.

The Eucharistic liturgy is our greatest treasure. It is what makes us who we are. Out of our bid to satisfy some of our friends and high donors, we have reduced it in many places to theatrical displays. Bishops, please get your priests to return to what the learnt in the seminary. While inculturation is important, we cannot and must not pollute or abuse the sacredness of the Mass. The unchangeable elements of the Mass must be maintained. I see priests often introducing their own "catchy" words into the Mass canons, wearing very distateful and odd vestments, changing the Mass scenes, and opening up the lectern to all kinds of "preachers and teachers" (protestants preachers), and other kinds of weirdness. These are completely against the teachings of Vatican II and Canon Law. The Heart of Jesus bleeds because of these abuses.

The same can be said of communism- it has never been properly implemented.

He said both and! The only thing “Roman” about him is that short sleeve shirt on him. Put that man in a cassock that he deserves!!!!!!!

Just convert to orthodoxy if you are traditional tbh. They still argue about calendars and moon phases at their conferences.

I always hear how Vatican II was implement poorly but no one seems to want to fix it so why should I think the implementation was at fault?

Novis Ordo can be reverently and beautifully celebrated, and we should dismiss it. Just because some masses are irreverent, if we ask our priests to be reverent I think we can help them to become so!

All good points however Francis has exacerbated the existing schism by creating a new fissure between the TLM and Novus Ordo. Like it or not, proponents of the reform of the reform of the liturgy are Restorationists in this new paradigm.

@timmalloy6253

2 жыл бұрын

@Pimp My Ditch Witch Francis appears to be suppressing a straw man then. Which Pope is correct? Benedict or his immediate successor.

The kind of worship that the church hierarchy says draws the heart into contact with God in fact does *NOT* enable contact with God; it opens the doorway to the evil one *without* the consent of the lay faithful; and hence it is forbidden, as is any near occasion of sin; no matter the necessity it is forbidden to attend such a mass as that kind he's glorifying opens the doorway to the devil by the Pope himself- and is the biggest betrayal imaginable of the lay faithful!

ahhh man the bishop is a proponent for reform of the reform. I think there's too much remove from the Triditine that can't be forced back into the new mass without it being the Triditine mass.

Uhhh what is he talking about ie divine Reno and benedicts? Never heard Gregorian chant except from the priest. Never seen incense except special occasions...when is this?????

I went to to my roman catholic church my whole life and The mass was always celebrated properly I am not from the US but this is the first time I am hearing about some weird novus ordo stuff going on. I am all for preserving the latin mass. It actually does happen and has it's time and place in my country or you can try requesting it for the wedding but I think I am inclained to believe novus ordo should be the standard This mass does much batter in conecting people with God.

Oh, there was nothing wrong with the Council? So the secular utopianism and downplaying of original sin was not problematic?

Taize is an ecumenical distortion of Catholicism don't have anything to do with them. Return to the Tradition handed on to us.

Sacrosanctum Concilium as written is the way forward. A trady Novus Ordo like at St. John Cantius or St. Mary's Pine Bluff is the way to do it. There needs to be SOME Latin, it HAS to be ad orientem, you MUST kneel to receive Our Lord either in the hand or on the tongue, and the music MUST be properly sung or chanted either acapella or with accompaniment from an organ or other classical instruments. No piano or guitars. St. John Cantius is proof we don't really need a TLM. It did its job thanks to Pope Benedict, now it needs to go and that energy put into mainstream parishes.

“The problem is the application.” Your Excellency, who applied the council? Some alien life form that was just handed the documents? Or was it the very same bishops who were at the council? Including JPII. Also, the Traditional Rite being said improperly is not the same as a new rite Mass being said irreverently *within* the rubrics of the Mass.

Yep. An accordion 🪗 should not be a liturgical instrument. Ever.

The liturgy in the 5th century is not in continuity with the Novus Ordo. This is a mistake from those that don't know, and a lie from those that do know. It is much closer to the traditional Mass, which did not originate in the 16th century, but in the 2nd century, and has maintained theological continuity the entire time. You cannot take bits and pieces from 5th century liturgy, bits and pieces from protestant ceremonies, and call that a continuation of ancient liturgy.

Remember, Jesus died horribly ….for this? I grew up in the theological mush of the US church in the 70s. I have the knowledge of faith I do, only because of my parents and a couple of university priests…back when some Jesuits still defended Catholic doctrines.

My church celebrates the Novus Ordo with reverence and beauty. The Latin Mass before left me “out” and uninvolved. Now I am edified.

@timmalloy6253

2 жыл бұрын

The Novus Ordo has incorporated elements of the TLM and even sacred music Like you, I've found these refreshing. Having both TLM and Novus Ordo can work in tandum.

@JohnFromAccounting

2 жыл бұрын

How did the traditional Mass leave you out?

@TickleMeElmo55

2 жыл бұрын

If the TLM left you out then by that logic everyone was left out. A reverent NO is a needle in a haystack.

@angelalemos9811

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe you should pick up a missal and read/pray the Mass. Mass ain't about you sweetie it's about worshipping the Lord

@TomLandry1

2 жыл бұрын

I am a convert - so I have ZERO "Nostalgia" - ok? My parish celebrates the Novus Ordo with exceptional reverence, and for this I am profoundly grateful!! And yet, the best Novus Ordo I've ever witnessed is still a pale shell of even a mediocre celebration of Traditional Mass. When i attend the Traditional Mass, I FULLY PARTICIPATE the *Catholic* Way - by following in my Missal and Praying the Mass along with the Priest. I don't have to be part of the "Show" to be fully engaged. Baptist hand holding, Pentacostal arm waving, and Protestant caterwauling ... er, I mean singing.... are NOT necessary for anyone to be fully engaged in a Mass. Why, oh why, do so man of my fellow boomer's SO Hate the Catholic Faith???

We just have to vatican II harder guys!!!

Why not "both and"? That's a good question to ask Pachapapa Francis who's persecuting the Tridentine Mass. Pope Benedict believed in "both and". I'm not a trad myself but I have a great deal of respect for it.

@mattnieri1202

2 жыл бұрын

This bishop has about the best perspective/explanation I've encountered about the old and new rites. He really gets right to the heart of it.

@timmalloy6253

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly my view. I.attend the LTM occasionally but have observed its positive influence on the NO. Once the LTM is gone, there will be no anchor left.

@mattnieri1202

2 жыл бұрын

@@timmalloy6253 that's a very insightful point

But most of the Catholics I know really don't understand the concept of the gospel being mercy and grace. They mostly seem to rely on consistent attendance at mass and really, really like it a lot when it is short and the homily is super airy. It seems, in fact, like they don't have real understanding of substitutionary atonement, forgiveness by grace, salvation not by or from good works but salvation to good works. None of them really understand that and I know a lot of Catholics. I even know pro abortion Catholics. It's because the political elite that claims to practice Catholicism is not being condemned for their beliefs and excommunicated from the church.

I love that he references IV! It is my favorite of the prayers! Go bishop!

We need to hear more about what Vat II really wants, as this bishop tries to do. I don't want a retreat to the past. But the real challenge, discipleship, sharing the Lord, community, that is where our focus needs to be. And some TLM communities near me are vibrant and meet those needs.

I was one of those seminarians who witnessed a "pizza and coke" mass. I refused to receive and was chastised for not doing so. I held fast and eventually left the seminary and eventually left the N O church. The Traditional Latin Mass drew me back, but now even the Traditional Mass has been removed from my area and I am "drifting" without a church and I will not go back to what drove me away in the first place.

I don't understand the point in the Novus Ordo. There was no need for it. The TLM is so powerful and chock full of prayers and invocations of many Saints, particularly of Saint Michael. The creators of the NO purposefully stripped it away and protestantised it (not my opinion, its what Bugnini actually said). I get that "some NOs are respectful and pious," but even then, its not as powerful as the lowliest low TLM and there was no need for the creation of the NO in the first place. If you want to add to and reform the Mass, then prayers to Mothers Teresa and Padre Pio should have been added. To strip away from something that has grown into a mighty oak and chop it down into kindling is just demonic. The world was being evangelised quite nicely before the NO, now the world is going to hell in a hand basket ever since.

@myleshagar9722

2 жыл бұрын

This went on in all the mainstream denominations at the same time, now disappearing. Churches failed to be truly counter-cultural.

@robmusial

2 жыл бұрын

Bp. McCaig mentions some of the abuses of the Tridentine Mass in the 50s. Also the Tridentine Mass was not succeeding in places like African missions. There are plenty of resources online that give a great background further into why these reforms happened. Saying the Church promulgates something “demonic” calls in to question the indefectibility of the Church.

@andrejgrebenc3235

2 жыл бұрын

Not everyone is like you. There are people who want to understand what is going on and Extraordinary form does not grant that.

@SuperZebezian

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrejgrebenc3235 This is complete nonsense. Good education of the faithful by zealous and knowledgeable pastors can more than supply good understanding of the Extraordinary Form.

@handsomegiraffe

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrejgrebenc3235 Oh yeah? How many Catholics today attending the NO believe in the real presence? I've been to two parishes with the TLM and they both offered booklets with the Latin and English side by side for people to understand, following along is not hard. Latin is such a beautiful language and an important aspect of our Roman Catholic heritage. Throw away Latin and you throw away centuries worth of heritage and culture, including some of the works of some of the greatest musical composers of history.

David Wemhoff wrote a pretty good book about vatican 2...

I really DO Agree with much of what the Bishop says! But - I Must comment on a couple things. "Is it the problem with the Novus Ordo, or the problem of how the Novus Ordo is being celebrated?" SPOILER - its "Both - And". It has been thoroughly documented that the Novus Ordo removed or watered down 83% of the language of the Mass, and for the express purpose of making the new Mass more Protestant. This can't honestly be denied or passed off as an "accident" or a "coincidence." NOR is it a coincidence that the whirlwind of changes following the Council have given us a Church in Free-Fall. (Matthew 7:15-20). FWIW, I've been at N.O. Masses that went only 20-25 minutes from procession to dismissal.... lets don't pretend that the current abuses are Just the "Crazy" examples of bubbles or clowns or whatever... Abuses in the 50's? No question. But where are the abuses TODAY? SPOILER - 99.5% of the abuses are in the Novus Ordo, NOT in the Traditional Mass. (and we ALL know this.) And sadly, its TOUGH to have much Trust - when we can go to Parishes in the same Diocese, and witness a (relatively) reverent Novus Ordo Mass, and in the next Parish, an "Arlo Guthrie" Mass with music inspired by the 1950's drug culture, and in the next Parish, a "Barney" Mass with music that sounds like it came from "Romper Room" or "My Little Pony", and in the next parish, who knows what? ...... Its quite a SHAME, actually, that the Bishop (seems to ) deny the clearly expressed will of the Council Fathers that Gregorian Chant (and Polyphony) be preserved in ALL Masses, not just in select "high solemn" or "special" holidays. But again, we still seem to be ASHAMED to be Catholic! WHY?? FWIW, I've read Fr. Mallon's book - and its inspirational.... as a "Business" text. But, tragically, he seems to see the "problem" as one of marketing, and installing the proper "Sales Pitch".... Also, it seems a bit of a reach to claim that the Novus Ordo (in any real way) hearkens to the 5th century. Are we to believe that in the 5th Century the Catholic Mass included substantially Lutheran prayers? Wow... I'd LOVE to see the source of this claim?? And even if Novus Ordo WAS a "photographic re-creation" of a 5th century Mass, if we deny the TLM and prefer the 5th Century Mass, what does that say about the movement of the Holy Spirit for the past 15 centuries? It FLATLY DENIES THE HOLY SPIRIT. God Help us all!!!

I'm confused. When I visit different parishes and ask for the parish map/description of her boundaries, over 90% of the time I'm told, "we don't do that anymore, the parish doesn't have a territory" and that "Vatican II got rid of that". And then I show where Cannon law still describes a parish as a people and a territory, and exclaim how great it would be to return to a correct understanding of the purpose of the laity and the parish life in the context of the 'new' evangelization. I get very few takers, but there are some. It is difficult to help people grow out of the holy huddle stage. There is a fear of strangers, and meeting 'strangers'. But my question is, are not all strangers actually sinners in disguise, like I am, and like you are?

I wonder why the music is putridly lukewarm in most churches...I know of an entire family who left for good just because of long sickening DRONE music.

The bishop needs to work on being a better listener. At least let Matt get his questions out each time without 'yeah yeah yeah...I know' type interruptions.

This is stupid rage farming. Come on - most of us have never been to a Mass of any type where this kind of thing happens. There are all kinds of ordinary form masses online (lots of live streams) with the priest in rich vestments, maniple on the left hand, celebrating reverently, while a choir sings sacred music. Funny how I never see these masses talked about on this show - we just hear about near-imaginary "clown masses" most of us have never seen. I've seen - by the way - the music Matt used to bring to Mass when he was with CCO. Those were certainly liturgical abuses easily on a grade with stuff getting called out here.

I agree Mass music should be worshipful. I disagree that Mass with Polka music is un-worshipful, per se. The potential for closed minded or insular thinking is rampant in the traditional Mass circles, in my experience. There are many cultural expressions dear to the heart of man that we desire to express to God. Yes, God has informed us how to worship Him: needing periods of silence or solemn reverence, but there can be room for "joyful noise." The very liturgy changes tone and meaning: i.e. penitential, gloria, kyrie eleison, offertory, communion, after communion, closing, etc.

@uluvr1c3

2 жыл бұрын

the church documents say the closer a piece of music is to gregorian chant the more suitable it is for liturgy. polka doesnt even come close

@orangetux

2 жыл бұрын

@@uluvr1c3 I am actually curious about reading the church documents that say that: can you point me to a reference?

@uluvr1c3

2 жыл бұрын

@@orangetux www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/Music/PiusX-Tra-le-sollecitudini.pdf Section II no. 3

@uluvr1c3

2 жыл бұрын

@@orangetux On these grounds Gregorian Chant has always been regarded as the supreme model for sacred music, so that it is fully legitimate to lay down the following rule: the more closely a composition for church approaches in its movement, inspiration and savor the Gregorian form, the more sacred and liturgical it becomes; and the more out of harmony it is with that supreme model, the less worthy it is of the temple.

@orangetux

2 жыл бұрын

@@uluvr1c3 In light of Matt Fradd's other video talking about reclaiming language and not exaggerating, I would exhort you to not use the phrase "church documents say" if you cannot point to the church documents that say. I would point you to my initial post.

Old writings about god and religions, don't stand up to scrutiny

Contemporary music lasts about two weeks and then it's old fashioned cringe worthy. It can never keep up with the times. Don't compete with Contemporary. Latin mass is ageless, timeless.

I would rather have a short, sacred and silent low mass before disgusting, blasphemous bubble mass! This bishop contradicts himself totally, can’t even hide his lies on theology.

This guy sounds like a Protestant in a certain way.

The conversation with Bishop McCaig was amazing.

The sense of the sacred being gone *enables* one to worship God; as any regularized worship with incense is really poisonous to the faithful's minds, hearts, and lungs in the meantime... what these men are glorifying is in fact completely backwards for what leads man towards God.

There is no proper place for the gregorian chant, aside from the trash-bin; as that too is a doorway for the devil to enter into the minds of the faithful and to play around in; same with any parts at all being in any language *aside from the Vernacular alone*; anything else is a means for the evil one to take over and is forbidden forever from happening- as the Church must when carrying out the Mass make it impossible for the devil to influence anybody at all- heedless of any ability, so it always is with God's ambassadors: no, they do not get the necessary knowledge to do their jobs, but they must regardless prevent any parts that could be used by the evil one to play around in the lay faithful's minds.

@TruePT

2 жыл бұрын

Pfft 😆😆

@chissstardestroyer

2 жыл бұрын

@@TruePT What's so funny about that?

@TruePT

2 жыл бұрын

@@chissstardestroyer You wouldn’t get it.

@chissstardestroyer

2 жыл бұрын

@@TruePT So make it clear.

@TruePT

2 жыл бұрын

@@chissstardestroyer Clear doesn’t have anything to do with it.

Please stop repeating LIES about the celebration of the Mass before the Council.

No this Bishop is just wrong the NO is very deficient and I don't think it can be redeemed. I think those behind the NO meant to weaken the Church and they succeeded. Now for round 2 the Synod on Synodality. The Catholic Church will remain in name only once it is all said and done

Ya, no... not agreeing with bishop. Respectfully. Another weak representation.

I cannot honestly recommend anyone convert to Catholicism just like I can't encourage anyone to move to Ukraine.

Is it worse to have a Mass in a language that people don't understand the words, or a Mass that is so theologically incoherent that the people don't understand the mystical reality of the Eucharist? At some point it becomes arrogance to reject a better liturgy because the words are difficult to learn.