I think the reason B99 has come up so often is because it’s so incredibly popular, and so well liked. The characters are really likable, it’s funny, and the show is fun to watch with s lot of progressive themes. So the question of it being copaganda is a really valid question.

@weirdskyreallyweird.5519

3 жыл бұрын

It also appeal to left wing people in its addressing of more surface level issues of racism and homophobia, which means it would strange for it to continue as normal without addressing the issue of the police as an institution being immoral.

@theravenpirate4744

3 жыл бұрын

@mormon yeah I feel like the show very intentionally made characters that exemplify immoral policing problems that I’m excited to see tackled in the next season

@no.7893

2 жыл бұрын

@@theravenpirate4744 I definitely feel like the shows main cast really caricaturise some of the biggest faults with the police. Most of the characters have readings of their negative traits that quite specifcially point to those qualities.

@Prauwlet213

Жыл бұрын

@two bears high fiving yep characters like O’Sullivan and characters in holts flashbacks show how out of touch and bigoted the police can be

@visassess8607

Жыл бұрын

@@weirdskyreallyweird.5519 The police as an institution isn't inherently immoral though.

I think you need to mention the dangerous traits that many of the characters exhibit Jake regularly disobeys orders, procedures, and rules in order to live out personal fantasies of being a badass hero. Let's not forget the collateral damage it often causes. Rosa is known to physically and verbally intimidate her coworkers and civilians. She even suggested of physically hurting someone where no one would see bruises to get information in one of the earlier seasons (I forgot if it was like a criminal or a civilian with information). Hitchcock regularly sexyally harasses his coworkers. He was even given the day off from the MeToo episode because Holt knew he'd harass the victim. Boyles interest in Jake and Amy's relationship also warrants sexual harrasment in countless examples. The team hates all other government/legal occupations like fire department, lawyers, FBI, post office. The militarized equipment is treated as toys (which you did touched upon). There was an episode where the team enjoyed abusing a sonic cannon against each other. The first season is about Jake and Amy betting to lock up as many felons as possible. The felons shown were conveniently violent bad guys, but real world cops do enjoy over-policing and looking for ways to fill the prison-industrial complex. These are all dangerous traits to exhibit where they're given free reign to act with impunity, especially in the case of the infamous NYPD. These traits are terrible regardless of setting and occupation but it's 10 times worse for police. That's what makes it "copaganda". They do all this shit but are still painted as the good guys, lovable and relatable. I say this as someone who enjoys the show.

@edthemammoth4175

3 жыл бұрын

I hope next season there’s a significant amount of time dedicated to them improving as cops and following the rules. The show does have the characters actually learn from their mistakes and not forget about them next episode, and terry crews said they would atleast try to address the stuff going on with cops

@malvinaghidetti3414

3 жыл бұрын

Also, Gina’s behaviour towards Terry is often literally sexual harassment, heavy sexualisation and objectifying. Always made me uncomfy.

@radmoonable

3 жыл бұрын

@@malvinaghidetti3414 wunch's behaviour towards Holt too. I know she is supposed to be a villain, but she is written as a likeable bad guy.

@melodyhaviland9393

3 жыл бұрын

i totally agree

@gregboi183

3 жыл бұрын

So true, I wish all the characters were unidentifiable robots that did exactly the regulation thing in any scenario. The differing character traits really sour my enjoyment of this comedy show

I don't think B99 was really ever made with the intention of saying something about the police. I think Schur and Goor and the other creators helming it simply wanted to do a redux of the workplace comedy, the thing they had basically always done, and they chose a police force because it could be such a contrast to both cop shows and workplace comedies. They chose a police force because to them it was just quirky to have a workplace comedy set in a police precicnt; because they have never been people who have had to think critically about the police or the role of the police, or the implications of cop shows - not until they started making one anyhow.

@TheEvilCheesecake

3 жыл бұрын

Death of the Author: it doesn't matter what message you try to send, all that matters is the message people take. If you make a cop show you are telling people something about cops, and the absence of a clear and unambiguous message means only that your work will carry the strongest message that arises unintentionally from it. Don't want to make a show that weakens people's resistance to cops? Best option is to not make a cop show. next best option is to really carefully make a cop show.

@mikemorro140

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheEvilCheesecake "it doesn't matter what message you try to send, all that matters is the message people take." I've always called bullshit on this as if we're being honest people take art in whatever way they choose at the end of the day you can't actually stop people from interpreting the message how they want you can try maybe but even still you can't force people to believe your message. So at the end of the day you make what you want.

@TheEvilCheesecake

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikemorro140 if someone takes a message from your show and you can't explain clearly why the message isn't real then you've not done your job in making your messaging strong and clear.

@mikemorro140

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheEvilCheesecake Not exactly I've seen movies and shows where the creator has the characters all but say the message and people still ignore or take the message in another way. Rick and Morty would be a pretty popular example where despite him being a genius and all the series has had several episode about how Rick is a shitty self destructive person and how you shouldn't want to be like him yet fans still worship the guy.

@TheEvilCheesecake

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikemorro140 they worship him because the show does too. Harmon wrote him as a superman who's pathetic but he still wins every time and the people around him love him.

I've never seen Brooklyn 99 as a realistic take on police.

@freebeerishere

3 жыл бұрын

same lol, its not like parks and rec is a realistic take on government

@KillahMate

3 жыл бұрын

No show is really a realistic take on the police. It's always about what picture is being painted.

@puckerings

3 жыл бұрын

You understand that a show doesn't have to be realistic to have an effect on its viewership, right? Right?

@KillahMate

3 жыл бұрын

@@puckerings This was my point exactly.

@Purpleturtlehurtler

3 жыл бұрын

@@puckerings correct.

There is something fascinating in how the Schurverse is more readily able to envision a radical restructuring of the metaphysical nature of the afterlife than non-incremental improvements to police or local government, etc.

@Ray_D_Tutto

2 жыл бұрын

Michael Schur is a naive dope.

@lexicon1913

Жыл бұрын

Well, he lives off of institutions and status quo.

@TxWIll

Жыл бұрын

That's because The Good Place literally breaks the usual format of a sitcom and the others don't.

@doctorwholover1012

10 ай бұрын

Something something about the way as fictional worlds move closer to reality, the less control or ability to change them we feel...... like hard vs soft magic systems or fantasy books set in alternate universe earths with magic/etc instead of entirely separate worlds and how the further we move from the reality we inhabit, the more freedom we feel to explore radical change or entirely different systems/structures. Don't know how to tie this quote in but it's also related: "Be Realistic; Demand The Impossible" - as a statement in direct opposition to the above paragraph above.

@TheSoulHarvester

7 ай бұрын

It's a LOT easier to imagine divine intervention than to imagine doing something difficult yourself. It's a similar fantasy to incrementalism - doing so little you're effectively doing nothing - doing so much that literally nothing prior remains, a completely clean slate. Both are equally impossible. Nothing external to humanity will ever reach down & set us on a new path, absolving us of responsibility, & doing so little all you accomplish is soothing the mental anguish of doing nothing will never magically become actual change.

One thing that always struck me as odd about Parks and Rec (Ron Swanson in particular) is that despite being incredibly anti-government, he never really questions the police, which is an oppressive state force. He shits on local government and town hall politicians but won't say anything bad about the police.

@siukong

3 жыл бұрын

Sadly this sort of double-think is not that uncommon among real life 'small government' types either.

@JackTheCarver

Жыл бұрын

So a normal libertarian then

@Firestorm422

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but it's not like Police commonly come up. It's not a show where police are involved really often at all

@DjeauxSheaux

Жыл бұрын

​@@Firestorm422Doesn't Louis C.K. play a cop on the show

@Firestorm422

Жыл бұрын

@@DjeauxSheaux Yeah, in like 3 episodes of a 7 season show

These shows I believe are also the product of that time. Office, Parks and Rec, B99, the good place. If you see them chronologically, you can see the increasing questioning of the system. Office was just the reflection of the office life- an acceptance. Parks and rec was about building towards better future through sincerity- a hope. B99 started with the main premise of gay black captain taking over and making the precinct better- a small noticeable change ( at the beginning at least.) The good place was the show that had a radical change. It shows evolution and that's good. If the first three shows had any radical changes they would've been deemed a fantasy and unrealistic. The problem with b99 is that it became popular and ran long. It unfortunately entered a time when things changed for worse so rapidly that it could not keep up with its original message of small changes. Today, the idea of radical change is not unrealistic. They incorporated issues showing they were aware of them. Racial profiling, the commissioner arc, the incompetency etc. But it's structure was not made for big changes like the good place was. Imagine if the ending episodes of the Good Place aired today... B99 would need a very radical change and the future of 99 segment in the video gives me some hope honestly... I'd like to see this show end on a good note.

@radmoonable

3 жыл бұрын

With the "we are at war with NYPD" opening of season 6, I really hoped the show is going to be about complete overhaul of the police system, the way the last 2 seasons of good place were. But unfortunately things went "back to normal" and the status quo returned in just a couple of episodes. Even the finale was just focused on "getting rid of the bad apple" rather than examining why people like John Kelly keep coming into power in the first place.

@jonsmith9838

3 жыл бұрын

@@radmoonable Well to be fair good place can do an overhaul since it over...many...many...many...MANY lifestimes

@roseshreetheshrek3141

3 жыл бұрын

@@radmoonable My hope is that that is what this season will cover, they are completely rewriting it to put into account real life issues and have always tried to incorporate real life into their fictional precinct. I know that this season will cover Blm and the pandemic, But I hope that with covering Blm they adress the issue with the status quo and how bad people act good and get into power, fingers crossed.

@dereklasker5350

3 жыл бұрын

Roseshree The Shrek yeah I trust the writers to find a way to make it work, they’ll definitely walk the line somewhere in the middle of the two extremes of “there’s no problems with cops at all” and “abolish the police”. I would guess that the arc would be something along the lines of the protests being huge news and maybe the squad sees other officers treating protestors like shit, at some point Jake goes to Holt for advice because he’s not sure he’s troubled by what’s happening and is questioning the morality of being a cop. Then holt says it’s more important than ever for them specifically to keep “fighting the good fight” against bad cops because if the good cops all quit, then the bad cops reign terror. Cue message about what a cop is supposed to be, a protector of ALL citizens, end of arc.

@mikemorro140

3 жыл бұрын

@@dereklasker5350 I like that idea it feels like the only takes I've seen are they should just stop being cops or ignore it but it's good to go down the middle.

"The point of this video is not to tear apart a popular TV show, the point is to recognize what messages about the police Brooklyn 99 is sending to its audience." My fave line of this. I've definitely assumed that a criticism of something I enjoy is attacking me personally for liking that thing. I feel like I've gotten better with this. Unpacking the harmful messaging does not necessarily mean I have to give up my fandom of that thing, it just means I have to be cognizant of the information it's feeding me. This series rocks. U rock.

@unominous4759

3 жыл бұрын

I think the message of Brooklyn Nine-nine is that cops don't actually do lot of policing. They spend most of the working day planning pranks, practicing departmental politics, and solving non-crime mysteries. That's why I love the show. When I want to watch a comedy about cops doing police work, I watch a Barney Miller rerun.

@availanila

3 жыл бұрын

True on both points

@Purpleturtlehurtler

3 жыл бұрын

@@unominous4759 because god knows cops tend to be silly individuals that are looking for a reason to prank their coworkers.

@benjaminlillis7807

3 жыл бұрын

@@Purpleturtlehurtler The problem is that cops are an inherently dangerous thing to make a show about, so it’s hard to do absurd comedy about them. Because cops aren’t like that, as you rightly pointed out, you run the risk of inadvertently making copaganda, rather than just a fun workplace sitcom. This feels like something that should have been thought through before the show was made, but at the very least I can appreciate the lack of harmful intent, as well as the things I like about the show (characters, writing, Halloween).

@Jarod-vg9wq

2 жыл бұрын

I feel the same about when it comes to critique of ducktales.

Season 6 started with the words "The 99 precinct is in war with NYPD", so they approach changes from season to season.

@madeofmarble8514

3 жыл бұрын

Even then, they don't examine the fundamental problems of police as an institution.

@ariedov

3 жыл бұрын

@@madeofmarble8514 agree, there is much room for improvement.

@grezende4056

3 жыл бұрын

@@madeofmarble8514 what would that be, in your opinion? For real. Do you mean u think the very concept of police and the government being the only legitimate entity to be coercitive and violent(the only one who can begin legitimate violence). Or that the police instution in america, in practice, is a bad institution? Not sure if u get what I mean. Do u think there is problems with the sole concept of police, or with how police is in reality, in the concrete case.

@madeofmarble8514

3 жыл бұрын

@@grezende4056 The police as a concept, but also kinda both, I guess? The police right now handle every call, and as the enforcers of the law, they are above it. They are ill-equipped to deal with most situations they are tasked with handling.

@grahamstepniewski6694

3 жыл бұрын

The office is a (realistic) dystopian view of corporate America. Parks and rec is a “utopian” view of government, showing that even through all the public abuse, these civil servants will keep persevering. Brooklyn is an optimistic view of what the police force could be like. Obviously not every police department has a plethora of fun, and good at their job cops. But they so easily could.

The bit about how B99 comes from a place of privilege reminded me a lot about a thought I had concerning The Good Place. I love both shows, TGP is wholesome and soft and what my soul needs in current times, but during one of my rewatches I couldn't help but to think specifically about Tahani. We are told that she was sent to the Bad Place because of her corrupt motivations and her enemity with her sister and desire to impress her parents and everyone around her; however, it occured to me that maybe her being rich also played a huge role in her being sent to hell. Sure, that would've been simplistic and maybe a bit incendiary and didn't allow for a sister reconciliation, but think about it. For example, when Jason tells her that "just [that] amount of money would've changed his life." There's a mild acknowledgment there of the hoarding and privilege that rich people are related to. Her diamonds, clothes, properties, everything is hoarding. Her clueless behaviour on how the world actually works when she's with the others (i.e. when Eleanor wins the lottery in Australia and she says "better luck next time", etc.) is played for laughs, aside from how we're made to feel sympathy for her being lonely and sad while also being rich. TGP is mostly about humanity at its core, and in that sense, rich people are also human, but in a more realistic societal context, they're not humane. Even their philanthropic events are played as self-serving.

@ihatemattmurdock

2 жыл бұрын

well worded omg!!

@raylopez1390

2 жыл бұрын

Not that I entirely disagree with you but weren’t the first few seasons about the complications of living in a neoliberal society? Saying that no matter your socioeconomic status you belong in the bad place since you are a participan in a system that relies on exploitation of some sort. So even tho Tahani was put in an environment that made her the person she is couldn’t the same thing be said about any other character?

@BlackXSunlight

Жыл бұрын

I did feel that TGP never fully explored how being part of marginalized communities really sets you back. Chidi’s complaints about the French are mostly punchlines, but growing up in a country that’s been colonized by a major European power would have deeply influenced his personal beliefs. Jason growing up poor is only briefly touched on, like you said. How your upbringing affects your worldview and character is mostly explored through Eleanor, who’s shitty childhood was the result of having shitty parents, but not the result of systemic injustice. The last season showed us that it’s morally reprehensible to not give everyone space to express themselves, and it drove me crazy how Simone was demonized for telling that slimy guy that his book was a chauvinistic, racist mess when she and all the other residents had to sit for a reading of it. Showing empathy to the guy who is stumbling through every type of bigotry is supposed to be a virtue Simone would want to emulate, regardless of her unique experiences as a black woman. The bar to entry for heaven vs. damnation remains the same for her, who must grin and bear the insults, and the slimy guy with zero self-awareness, despite the slimy guy living in a world tailored for him, and Simone surviving in that same world that exploits people like her. It was then that I realized the show was written from a specific place of privilege. It’s a pivotal flaw, no matter how much I loved the show.

@bensmith8682

Жыл бұрын

sounds like someone's bitter.

@Firestorm422

Жыл бұрын

Couldn't you make the same argument for anyone with an amount of money over than necessary, whether it be phones and PS5s or diamonds, it's still "hoarding" with this idea. Yeah. Eat the rich and all that but I don't think saying that merely having money and spending it makes you immoral, that just reeks of the "if you really cared about the homeless you'd give them your apartment and live on the street instead" argument

Now that you pointed out Micheal Schur's philosophy in his shows, I can see why I, the average millenial, would feel less nihilistic and bitter after binge watching his shows, especially now. It just eases the headaches.

@dee8163

3 жыл бұрын

glad you commented this! I feel like The Good Place steadily climbed to my favourite show ever in quarantine because I realised that as a literal teen I had very little agency. Choices are limited and apart from small small changes, there isn't much I can do at all. I can't stop buying from Amazon or Nestle, no matter how evil they are, and it causes a lot of dissonance if you want to believe that you're doing good and being a good person. I think TGP really helps grapple with this world we've come into as younger people.

I love Brooklyn Nine-Nine. But what you said isn't wrong. I don't watch the show because it's a cop show, I watch it for the characters. Furthermore, I for one, have never seen the show as an accurate real life representation of the police. Its very over the top. But my interpretation aside. The point is to show a version of reality, not reality itself necessarily its also important to acknowledge that the Nine-Nine is a fictional precinct. Anyway... I'm surprised how you didn't mention the fact that Jake himself idolised the job based on the cop movies and shows he watches. Its one of the most interesting topics in relation to the show and copaganda, because essentially, Jake fell for it. I'm also very glad that the structure of the show gives it more freedom to tell stories, because if it was the same... "Hey person died lets find who did it" every episode, it'd get stale and I don't think it'd have the same impact. I think the reason the good place works better at the justice reform thing or whatever you want to call it, is because it is half "hypothetical fantasy". Whereas Parks and Rec, Brooklyn Nine-Nine and The Office, are all fully based on Earth (if you know what I mean)

@madeniquevanwyk

3 жыл бұрын

All very true points, it's funny that he didn't mention Jake becoming a cop bc of copaganda, that feels like it deserves a vid all on its own

@od3910

3 жыл бұрын

The issue here isn't that it's a bad show. This isn't black and white. It's a good funny show with a lot of representation. But it doesn't reflect the reality of the police experience ethnic minorities have. It will have unintended consequences. They don't make the writers bad people. It just shows a massive gap in their experience. That still has consequences we have to discuss. We can't just ignore it

@angusmarch1066

3 жыл бұрын

Jake's falling for copaganda is interesting, but isnt really explored apart from one episode where Jake punches the older generation cop/author who insults Holt. But that paints the police force as having delineation between the old cops who were bigots and the new cops who are largely virtuous apart from a few bad apples (like Wuntch and The Vulture). This ends up being the same narrative that irl police use all the time. "We used to have problems but we've solved them now, there are only a few baddies who we quickly excise and you shouldnt complain because we're all good people and are just doing our jobs."

@valacftw

Жыл бұрын

@@angusmarch1066 tbh Wuntch's aren't really bad, most of her actions are good only, which is said by her "the only blemish on my record is my interpersonal relationships with Holt" this proves that she isn't inherently a bad worker, she just doesn't like Holt.

@valacftw

Жыл бұрын

@@od3910 it doesn't have to reflect reality tho, people know it's just a show. I watch it for the personalities, I know it's very very over the top, it's fun to watch each extreme personality turned up to an 11 bounce off each other.

I think the reason the Good Place can succeed where the other three shows don't is that it's a made up system. It's based on real systems - government, office work, punishment, etc - but it's not trying to mine comedy out of a system that already exists so any time they got done mining comedy from one way the system is set up, they were able to push for bigger changes and mine comedy from that new form. B99, Parks & Rec and The Office show a fundamental lack of imagination: they're unsure of their ability to show big changes, get an audience on board with the new status quo, and still be able to mine comedy from it. B99 could never fully break away from being a police sitcom mired in the status quo because that's the common, shared reality general audiences understand. And understanding is crucial to comedy

I always felt like B99 could take place in a post office and be basically the same show lmao

@blump5080

7 ай бұрын

'We guard what you lick'

@lazarus8018

5 ай бұрын

​@@blump5080 I want this show to be made now.

@ocularpatdown

4 ай бұрын

I’d still watch it.

I think brooklyn nine-nine is a good show to introduce people to the issues in the police. since it doesn’t pose for big solutions it’s easier to swallow for people heavily against police reform. if it wasn’t so moderate in its solutions I think it would’ve closed off those people even more. but now that they’ve been eased into the idea it’s time to introduce actual solutions to those heavy hitting problems.

@katelivewire

3 жыл бұрын

I agree! I love B99, and hope they find a way to move forward from this. I'd personally love it if they addressed more serious issues (esp w their signature humor), and hopefully more people will see why police reform is so necessary.

@TheJustice35

3 жыл бұрын

The problem isn't that there's a Policing issue, but a Societal issue in commumities. Real reform is Universal Body Cams and limiting no knock warrants. Other than that the Police do a good job and to suggest otherwise is either Politics or willful ignorance of other factors

@aprilk141

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheJustice35 Breonna Taylor, George Floyd. 400+ people of color killed by police in Minnesota. Your saying 'good job' is spitting into the faces of millions of your neighbors faces.

@TheJustice35

3 жыл бұрын

@@aprilk141 lmao you don't know anything about me kiddo. This is probably the Whitest comment on KZread, come back when you get a real job

@aprilk141

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheJustice35 Cops just killed a white teenager in a traffic stop. He was holding a jug of blue antifreeze. You gonna call that a good job too?

This is the first vid of yours that I've seen but this was great; if Blue Bloods defends the police from a perspective of conservatism then B99 upholds the institution from the side of liberalism with no show ever advocating for a leftist solution to the police. I appreciate a show like Superstore that almost never defends the institution that it's based on but rather acknowledges how fucked it usually is to be a low-level employee at a massive conglomerate. Now I'm commenting so that this vid shows up in other people's recommended like it did mine.

@availanila

3 жыл бұрын

They should season 8 like Superstore, it'd make it continue to be relevant and sensitive

@charmedblondie4

3 жыл бұрын

Yessss, I've thought for a while that Superstore is the most underrated comedy on tv right now. It takes the horrible drudgery of the Office but never tries to say "look! you're having a good time, that must mean things aren't so bad"

@vgamer11

3 жыл бұрын

I think it's rather ovbious why there wouldn't actually be a show upholding a leftist message in general, especially one on mainstream TV

@VetkinaOlga

2 жыл бұрын

oh wow there are people on the english side of internet who do know that liberalism isn't left

@alongfortheride84

2 жыл бұрын

If Superstore becomes a smash hit like B99, I guess I'll have to admit defeat here; but have you considered the idea that analyzing how awful our current institutions are is probably better appreciated, at least by the majority of the dumb public, through serious mediums rather than comedy? Like....yeah, John Oliver is crazy informative, but the ratings tell us that when people want to laugh, most of them turn to mindless Corden or Fallon. That's why the whole idea of Skip Intro criticizing Schur and Goor for their lack of progressiveness seems...silly.

Taking the "Shurverse" as a whole makes me appreciate the Good Place even more, honestly. It's considerably different in its willingness to address structural problems and that's what really made me fall in love with the show.

I think something worth noting is that when we see the Nine-Nine doing police work, a lot of the time its pursuing drug crime, which is not only in and of itself harmful, but also is the vector where police perform and defend a lot of their worst behaviors.

@briennekennedy373

3 жыл бұрын

I think it’s really interesting how, even in this B99 universe, where most of the officers are somehow diverse, progressive, and legitimately care about doing what they think is right, they’re still doing harm. It really highlights how it doesn’t matter how “nice” a police officer is outside of work-there are still fundamentally structural issues with the police as an organization (like the encouragement for police to be violent) and the harmful impact of the laws they’re enforcing (like the drug crime you brought up).

@allyli1718

3 жыл бұрын

Brienne Kennedy you’re right, it illustrates ACAB super well

@MrZauberelefant

3 жыл бұрын

But that is grounded in real life politics, innit? It's not like police work is 70% murder and burglary, it's going after (minority) drug users. That's wrong, but why should B99 pretend it's any different?

@threenumbnuts

10 ай бұрын

​@@MrZauberelefant I don't think anyone's asking that they make a comedy show about a precinct that decides not to pursue drug crime charges, does not abide by the blue wall of silence, etc. etc. without the tremendous pushback that would get from other cops IRL. That would basically be wish fulfillment. I think the weird thing is setting a lighthearted comedy in a police precinct at all, nowadays. For a lot of the audience, what that setting reminds them of is going to clash with the escapist aim of that kind of comedy.

I'm definitely from a more anarchist perspective as far as systemic changes, but I really liked how you approached this and I think this is a great overview of how even progressive media often gets too caught up in propping up the status quo while critiquing it's "rough edges".

Sorry this series isn't doing as well as it deserves. I'm trying my best to share it around. Great work!

@neothepenguin1257

3 жыл бұрын

Stellvia Hoenheim I’m sorry about your coma but it’s 2020 now and we don’t say “soyboy” anymore. We developed a thing called intelligence. You’ll get there eventually.

@NUCLEARDASH

11 ай бұрын

I wonder why tho. Im showing this to all my friends, doing my part as well.

The reason I like Brooklyn Nine Nine is because it has the comedic charachters but also you get certain episodes where they have quite a heavy cop theme, episodes that come to mind are" Unsolvable" and " The Box" . I love how they blend these two things. Edit: Another thing I love is how romance isn't a really core point. Once Jake and Amy got together, they rarely fought and not every episode was about them. Holt talks about his Husband just as someone would talk about there wife, just as Rosa with get girlfriend.

I’d really love to see the show have a “Frank Grimes” episode or season arc where normal people interact with the Brooklyn 99 cast and we see things from their perspective, even with ostensibly good cops

@Hakumeiun

3 жыл бұрын

That could be a potentially genius way of broaching what police see as "good policing" V what the rest of the world sees as "good policing."

Okay but what about the Good Place? It’s core message is “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism”

@MrElegos

3 жыл бұрын

Eh, that was the core message of season 3. It backed up off that message hard in season 4 and instead circled back to "we basically invented purgatory" rather then actually address structural issues

@auroraspeltz9910

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrElegos I agree, but I also think that the overall message is that, without the outside pressures of capitalism, most people improve. They don't go so far as to say everyone improves, because they continue to show Brent sucking in the last episodes.

@amfram

3 жыл бұрын

If that’s the message that’s fucking based as hell

@happyllama1160

3 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure that the core message of The Good Place was that "People can change if given a chance,"

@unoriginalusername4416

3 жыл бұрын

@@happyllama1160 Yes, but seasons 3 and 4 heavily explored the fact that people cannot be given the chance in the current state of the world, ie under capitalism.

A few years ago I once argued with someone who said B99 was cop propaganda, because I disagreed, since the show does address problems within the police and most cops on the show that aren't on the 99 squad are shown as really bad, corrupt people, so I was like "it doesn't glorify the police as a whole, in fact it criticizes it, so how could it be cop propaganda??" But your video made me see things in a different light and change my mind a little. That being said, I still love the show and hope they find a way to do better in the following season(s). Maybe I'm more forgiving as a non-American, since my own country doesn't have such extreme issues plaguing our police force.

Greg Daniels was the writer responsible for adapting The Office to US television. Mike Schur was a writer on The Office, you could have made your point without ascribing it to one person. You nodded at the distinction between Dan Goor and Mike Schur. Rather than attribute the style to one artist’s vision it’s more accurately described as a style of comedy that began on The Office that many writers took on.

@2wayalley743

3 жыл бұрын

i definitely agree

@ShadowPa1adin

3 жыл бұрын

The death of the author is undone when the critic becomes a necromancer.

This is the first video of yours I’ve watched and I enjoyed it a lot. Very well done. You tapped into exactly what I love about B99 and my critique against it. Also, The Good Place is probably my favorite TV show personally; I think what I connected with was they way it was kind of a fantasy come true to overhaul a broken system and believe that people are capable of such good.

@maximeteppe7627

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed, it's a great show. And while colorful, the good place is about revolutionaries enacting radical change (practically overnight, in fact), and in that regard I don't really see it as incrementalist.

There's one thing about Brooklyn 99 that I've noticed, and once you see it, you won't be able to unsee it. While you noted that a lot of epsiodes don't focus on police work, something I've seen is that when it does, it often follows this pattern: Step 1: A crime occurs Step 2: One of the detectives comes up with an outlandish idea as to how it happened Step 3: That detective receives pushback from the others because "That's ridiculous" Step 4: The outlandish idea is correct For example, there's S6E11, The Therapist. Step 1: The woman goes missing. Step 2: Jake believes the therapist did it. Step 3: Charles says that's not true. Step 4: Oops, the therapist did it. It's a persistent pattern, and when viewed through the repetition of this formula, it paints a picture of the police as needing to trust their gut, and that the ridiculous dangers actually *are* valid concerns.

@ccshumshum8104

Жыл бұрын

looks like you just exposed encyclopedia brown and other children's mystery books as copaganda! bravo for protecting the youth! we must do our part to reinforce in children the importance of doing the exact opposite of whatever law enforcement organisations say!

@valacftw

Жыл бұрын

No this is very very reductive, I do not know how it got so many likes jeez. There are so many one off crime episodes like Serve and Protect, the crime where Jake promises the mother, Sabotage, Det.Dave Majors, The Puzzle Master where we don't know until the end who has actually done the crime. Did you just watch 2 episodes and let it form your whole opinion?

Honestly, I want to give a hat tip to the comments section - there were some really insightful thoughts here, both about the show and about real life problems being portrayed badly in copaganda. Mia Mulder also did an analysis of B99 that folks might enjoy - it's really enriching to see lots of different perspectives. I'm still learning about some of the nuances of copaganda and differences as to how policing (doesn't) work in the real world.

Hi, I don't know how to contact you aside through your comment section, but I was wondering if you might consider tackling how police procedurals often exploit mental health issues for content? I think it's an important topic due to how it contributes to mental health stigma--and considering how people who deal with certain mental health issues are often over-policed.

@dee8163

3 жыл бұрын

I've seen this a lot in Criminal minds! Idk if that counts as a cop show

@ellibotic1053

3 жыл бұрын

@@dee8163 I’m absolutely talking about Criminal Minds, and it absolutely counts as a cop show. I wrote a paper about how police procedurals do this and ended up referencing A LOT of Criminal Minds episodes.

The first episode of the new season has Diaz quitting because of the consistent violence.

The reason we are able to see the good place change it’s system from the ground up is because the actual plot has little to do with actual reality. Brooklyn 99 likes to stay real and so them depicting a world where the police is defunded would change it from a comedy show about our reality to just a fantasy

Brooklyn nine-nine is a cop show the way X-files is. It's in the background but it's not about that.

With a series titles “Copaganda” I was expecting this to be a hyper-extreme attack on B99 but I was happy to see you were actually really positive about the show. This is a great video with some good points.

I also attribute BK99 for popularizing the office comedy with characters who genuinely care about their job. Prior it was way more common to have characters who either disliked or were bad at their jobs. But all the detectives and other members really are passionate about police work. Or at least the show's version of it. And I really enjoy watching that more than disgruntled employees.

some of you sure seem a lot more worried about whether you are 'allowed' to like the funny tv show or not than you are about police brutality

Michael Schur shows are about human interaction in the workplace usually, and like most shows, just entertainment. And as a latino, I know a shit ton of my people who hate the term "latinx".

Brilliantly done. Very well researched, balanced and fair. I really think this kind of context and rational discussion is needed in today's times, instead of unilaterally wanting to cancel everything.

@availanila

3 жыл бұрын

Is there a movement to cancel B99?? God the US cancel culture is making life hard for us outside that loop... 😩

@sanchitvarma1282

3 жыл бұрын

@@availanila Yeah, B99 seems to have been targetted hard amidst the defund police movement. Even the makers of the show have publicly stated that they are going to retool the show for season 8.

That racial profiling episode has me in tears anytime I think about it. It is one of few accurate represantations in popular TV of what systemic racism *feels* like, not what it is or how it ruins our society but what it feels like to an individual. The hopelessness of it all, the lack of power against such clear injustices. It shows how you can't give a racist a good talking to and they will be reformed. Most of the time they will get away with it and in my experience, if a victim tries talking to their racist aggressor, their fascist views grow stronger out of defense. POC will often get an apology on behalf of the aggressor and absolutely no action will be taken on punishing them. They just go on with their lives and forget about "the incident" while your fear of stepping outside just got a bit bigger and you know it's just a matter of time until it happens again. This feeling of having no option, no chance of standing up for yourself and having to endure it over and over is truly soul crushing. B99 shone their light on this pain, a pain that needs to be seen and heard and felt and they didn't feel the need to soften the harsh realities of racism, at least not in this specific episode. I think it's the best episode of this series and a very important piece of television. I'm gonna go check if the writers were of color now, if not I redact my statement.

@terminata7755

Жыл бұрын

They hired one black writer for this episode. ONE. I couldn't find pictures of Carly Hallam and Alexis Wilkinson who were story editors on this episode but I doubt they are of colour

@Ray_D_Tutto

Жыл бұрын

You perfectly articulated my experiences. Wish i could save this comment.

@terminata7755

Жыл бұрын

@@Ray_D_Tutto thanks dude, but the fact that out of 7 writing credits, only one of them was black just isn't sitting right with me. Either that dude Philip Auguste wrote this and the others just wrote the B and C plots or white people took it upon them to explain a black mans experience with the help of one black man. Just doesn't feel right

@terminata7755

Жыл бұрын

@@Ray_D_Tutto Feel free to copy the comment and save it to your notes? idk

@Ray_D_Tutto

Жыл бұрын

@@terminata7755 Absolutely mate. Also not sure how you relate to this but living in the UK Black people aren't just harassed but also Asian, Middle eastern, mixed race or even slightly tanned skinned etc. Doesn't sit right with me either that an entire writing staff is white when handling topics that effect large groups that are othered.

Did you say Twin Peaks? Pleeeeease do a copaganda video on it. I'm such a huge fan and a video essay about something that isn't plot speculation would be amazing.

@soffa93

Жыл бұрын

damn david lynch is 2 smart 4 u

How about Dexter? I mean I feel it’s a cop show without being fully a cop show you know?

As a person who needs radical change to have happened years ago, the thing you said about shows like this being made by people who don't need radical change had me pointing at my screen like, "YES!"

I saw this video in my KZread homepage suggestions despite never seeing you channel before and I have to say: good work! B99 is my favorite TV show ever (seriously, when I watched the first episode around four years ago, it was the first comedy that made me laugh in a VERY long time lol), but your analysis on the Schur/Goor-verse bias towars incrementalist solutions is quite spot on and speaks very loudly in B99. PS: Terry Crews said in some interviews that they started the script writing process for Season 7 from square one after the George Floyd protests to properly incorporate BLM and the other adjacent issues to the plot, I'm really looking forward to see this even though it will take a really long time to be available because COVID... *laughs of despair in the background*

So glad I was recommended this- what an awesome series and so well written and edited.

Commenting to help the algorithm but also, thank you so much for making this. I even started crying a little bit. My boyfriend and I had started watching this show at the start of quarantine, loved it, and eventually I felt it deep in my soul that I just could not keep with it.

You made a brookly nine-nine video, diving into the Schurverse AND referencing veronica mars, this is why this is my favourite essay page.

i’m so glad this showed up on my feed and i hope this series blows up! i love how important the topic is and how well made and presented it is

I think the worst mistake the creators of the show made was to make it about none other than the NYPD, one of the most infamous police forces in the country, when actually the original idea by Dan Goor was about a small police office in a small town. That would've been way better because the stakes would be way lower (making Jake's die hard fantasy way funnier) and it wouldn't make these cops heroes or ideally "good people", just ridiculous people trying to make ends meet while trying to feel like heroes (Hot Fuzz by Edgar Wright is a great example of this). Granted, a small town is not as diverse as New York, but you could include that regardless.

@lavernebennet7395

11 ай бұрын

My guess is that it would've been too similar to Parks & Rec that way. The NYPD specifically was definitely a very questionable choice, though.

@Alan-vy3do

11 ай бұрын

These days any police would be questionable

Fantastic job. I've been curious how others will look at Brooklyn Nine-Nine in the recent months. I'm glad that it's actors and creators want to make it better. But I agree with you that it still excuses a lot of bad behavior even as it raises important issues. As you're looking at possibly making other videos in this series (I hope you get the Pattern support you need and I'll help make it happen), I'd be curious what you think of Psych. As I've been rewatching it with an eye toward Copaganda, there's a lot to say about a seemingly very silly show. A lot that it assumes about what is ok and not ok. And a lot of racial issue lampshading through Gus's character.

@ekaterini128

3 жыл бұрын

I would love to see an analysis of psych

@availanila

3 жыл бұрын

Psych would be great to have covered. I loved that show from episode one

@shridharambady2069

3 жыл бұрын

Someone suggested that when the show comes back it should be a post office and never address that they were ever cops.

@lydialuton4402

3 жыл бұрын

The glee Lassy and Juliet have for weapons in some episodes is a lot, but the show also portrays the police as ineffective so... yay? Love the show so having an impartial viewer analyze it would be interesting

@elizabethsaltmarsh8306

3 жыл бұрын

@@lydialuton4402 I'm not sure it's necessarily positive to portray the police as ineffective, if the message is "but look how much more effective they could be if they broke the rules more". Which is my takeaway from the heroes being people who work outside the law (as silly as they are). Not saying everyone does or should interpret it that way, but I do think it's a valid lens.

I’ve always thought of B99 as a pop culture spin on our pop culture understanding of American police work. The title sequence is the perfect example. The music, the slow motion walk. It’s a parody. Jake’s whole police character is about fulfilling his childhood fantasies of police work, of being in Die Hard. Of saying cool lines when he arrests someone. B99 is more about playing cops than portraying cops. And I think that’s why it was so successful, it didn’t take itself or police work* too seriously on the whole (except for specific moments of sexism/racism/corruption, which it took seriously)

Your videos will always be viral in my heart. I think your videos strike an excellent balance of reconciling emotional truths (the enjoyment of the show, its good intentions) with critical thinking (its positive effects on the discourse, its shortcomings in its messaging, etc).

Leaving a comment for the algorithm, I love the show and also absolutely agree with everything you've said in this video. I used to be one of those people that thought that steady changes could maybe work as a sort of middle ground but you've really driven home the message that it's just really not possible

I can’t believe this doesn’t have more views! It showed up on my homepage so I assumed it was blowing up. Awesome work!!

This was an awesome and nuanced review. I have seen videos about B99 and copaganda which have devolved to simply stating that B99 says nice things about cops therefore bad. As someone that tends to inherently favour incremental change within systems, this video really made me question and understand the position of privilege that can come with that. Thank you for taking the time to create this video and explain your arguments. It has genuinely changed the way I view this issue.

your recent videos have honestly been some of your best. i’m sorry you’re not seeing the type of views you wanted to, these are genuinely fantastic videos

This is a great series. I just started going through the playlist and realized I’ve already watched a few already at different points in time and really enjoyed them!

Wonderfully done. Well thought. Great points. May your channel thrive!

I really had personal moral trouble with starting this show bc it’s about cops it’s really fun to watch though, fairly progressive, sometimes openly critical and also unrealistic enough in its police work aspects for me to be enjoyable BUT it does support or even rest on a 'bad apple' narrative and that is not it at all and it leaves a sour taste for me thinking about the people that make the show as it goes on I feel like it works with/accepts the status quo when it could take a more transformative approach

You know that feeling in the pit of your stomach when you're ready to go to war for your babies? Yeah, that was hard to keep down. Very good video. You deserve a bigger audience.

This showed up randomly for me, so at least it's getting some traction. I'm gonna guess whatever bad ideas are responsible for the YT algorithm pushed this one over previous episodes because of Brooklyn Nine-Nine. The Wire used to be my favorite TV show, so I can't wait to see you show how it is copaganda. Hopefully you can either hear all the coded racism the cops say about the black kids in the projects or have subtitles on to read it, and research it, because it's definitely there.

@Ray_D_Tutto

2 жыл бұрын

The Wire had a reason for doing that though and was very much on the side of truth. Warts and all.

I love how the show handles LGBT PAIN

I think the biggest thing that people who are more steeped in progressive ideas/more layered critical thinking need to remember is that the incremental change that shows like this have are monumentally important for subtly pushing the underlying discourse forward. Radical change cannot happen successfully until there is enough political capital/popular opinion that sees the issues in the current system. Shows like Brooklyn 99 are vital to moving society forward together, where a more radical show has an impact on a much smaller audience that should probably be moving on to more serious media anyway.

‘a nice pope is more dangerous than a mean pope’

"Two Latinx women" why on earth would you not use the word Latina here

Im glad im seeing this Every time B99 did a drug storyline I was like hmmmm, where is the talk about rehab and the way drugs are handled in america to the detriment of other countries. I thought this show is supposed to be progressive

Love how this show presents a lot of the main villains as cops. Also u should hit up wisecrack cause they just lost jared

I'm glad I was recommended this channel and I'm glad you are working on this series. I've been relistening to Robert Evans' Behind the Police podcast mini-series and this feels like a lighter-toned complement to that. I follow the terribly dark and history of the police as an institution with Robert and I get to see how television shows portray them with you. I also am glad you tackled B99 because I've been hesitant to get back on it since this last summer.

Algorithm must be working because this was recommended to me. Great video.

Please keep working on such interesting topics! I couldn't wait for the episode on B9-9. Greetings from Switzerland :-)

Loving your work. Keep it up.

I'm glad the algorithm picked this one up at least somewhat, I went back and your Blue Bloods video really needs some more views. Hope this momentum carries!

This was in my recommended and I’m so glad it was!

Fun fact: 'Goor' means 'gross' in Dutch, my native language :))

Awesome analysis! If you feel like making it, I would watch the hell out of a post-season-eight update, and I’m guessing a lot of other people would too!

your videos are so polished and well presented! you deserve WAY more subscribers

I hope this blows up, I was recommended it randomly by the algorithm. Liked, subbed, and watched the first two eps!

Fascinating video. I can't say I disagree with the idea that Brooklyn 99 has its flaws, despite how much I enjoy it. At the very least it's important to remember that the show exists in a sort of fantasy world where the systemic problems in policing are less pervasive. I feel a little called out, as a big fan of all of Schur's work, but it's good to think critically about the things you enjoy. So thanks for this video, it widened my perspective a little.

@radmoonable

3 жыл бұрын

I think good place is easily Schur's most radical show. I guess the fantasy element helps in arguing for systemic changes without drawing too much heat.

It is possible to enjoy a piece of media while also acknowledging it's problematic elements. In B99's case it's worth keeping in mind that they have directly addressed things like racial profiling and homophobia, and the showrunners are have said that they're absolutely taking into account the awful levels of police brutality in the US in writing the next season

Very interested in the rest of this series, good work.

Love this series! Couldn't believe how little views they have. Please keep going!

I have a problem with "require de-escalation" because cops have always talked about de-escalation (it's quite obviously a cop term) but it means something VERY different to them, they treat de-escalation the same way Vladimir Putin treat de-escalation. They both massively and suddenly ESCALATE the situation to the worst possible stakes and make any possible de-escalation dependant on total capitulation of those they're up against. Cops will start shouting, insulting, accusing, making legal and illegal threats and make the only way to calm the officer down is to do whatever he says and if you exercise your rights he'll get mad. Nowhere in that 8 rules is any mention of people's civil rights, nowhere is there an obligation for police to end a detention if they exercise their 5th amendment right to silence.

I can see the problems with how Brooklyn 99 handles being a cop show. That being said, while damage can be done, it is a sitcom that many watch to have a good laugh and enjoy a diverse cast on TV. I'm looking forward to the other shows you will bring up. :)

You approach this aspect of pop culture so well and with an eye on reform and redesign of the system.

I've stumbled upon your channel through this video. Please continue the series, going to check out the other episodes

I really love this video, as it made me think deeper about the concept of "copaganda". Before, I thought that copaganda was simply "cop always good, cop is hero" and nothing more, so the idea of B99 being copaganda was impossible to me. I always saw it as a show about people who happen to be cops, but people first. Your video made me realize that copaganda means also the message that a media sends to the public about the police force: mainly the point about patience and how it isn't an ideal applicable to the police. I don't think B99 should go for a big, drastic change in the system arc like TGP did, because to me that isn't what the show is about- it's not meant to be as deep and as challenging as TGP, it's a sitcom made to be fun, which is exactly what it is doing. However, it would be good if they did address this ideal about patience, because I fully agree with you when saying it comes from a place of privilege.

Awesome video man! If I mat add: a reason why TGP was interested (and succeeds) at changing the broken system of the afterlife is because it's a fantasy series. B99 has the issue where it needs the system it's (occasionally) critiquing to be recognisable to the audience. Similarly, P&R has to keep its local government bureaucracy in tact because the audience has an inherent understanding that that is how government works. The incremental changes the show proposes keeps the system intact in-universe but it also keeps the viewers belief suspended juuuust enough for the show's antics. That was all pre-George Flloyd however, and the show can't go forward the same way.

these videos are extremely extremely excellent, thoughtful, and well-produced. The views will be there eventually. Great things to come for you, I'm sure!

i really appreciate this series, these videos are put together so well and I agree with your conclusions about b99

commenting to break the algorithm

@4204799

3 жыл бұрын

it must’ve worked bc this shit just showed up on my feed

@Graelcase

3 жыл бұрын

@@4204799 Same for me. Went back and watched the previous episodes too.

This video was very well crafted. I've been a fan of Brooklyn 99 for almost 2 years now and I've been struggling with how to view it as a show I love after learning about the degree of systemic problems in our police systems over the past few months. I'm interested to see what the show does in season 8 since Terry Crews has said that they're trying to reframe the way they do things in the midst of all the BLM protests going on this year. Thank you for presenting your points so clearly and articulately. It's no easy thing to to do

Super impressed and grateful for the help seeing what’s in front of me. I’ve become a patron!

hey, so... you're comment at the end really got me. I have seen all three of your videos about the police, and really enjoyed them. Especially as a historian and social scientist. I did get a little sad when I saw you're view numbers and the fact that you even mentioned it got me even more. Keep the good work, man. It has been a great experience

The most copaganda behaviour I've seen from B99 is their depiction of defence attorneys. As with almost all cop shows, defence attorneys are seen as disgusting scumbags who have no moral compass because "who would defend evil people willingly amirite?" This is part of a wider prosecutorial bias against defence attorneys in the media where the heroes are almost always the prosecutors /DA, and the villains are the sleazy defenders. Only time a defence attorney is portrayed positively is if they are defending someone wrongly accused. But defence attorneys are incredibly important to the justice system, they are underfunded (except high profile celebrity ones), most of them can't choose their clients, and most of their clients have committed crimes but aren't necessarily evil people. They may be guilty of something but not what the prosecution is alleging. They may be overcharged and threatened into taking a plea deal which isn't fair. Etc. Defence attorneys are essential and as someone whose loved one has gone through the justice system, I realised first hand how crucial they are. And yet you almost NEVER see this in shows.

@Ray_D_Tutto

Жыл бұрын

This is why i love Better Call Saul. Jimmy Mcgill is a public defender who is overworked and underpaid and treated with contempt by law enforcement and upperclass lawyers alike for defending "scumbags". It perfectly portrays the injustices of the system and makes you root for the underdog lawyer who fights for the little guy.

Thank you for addressing this! I used to really love the show (especially for its comedy) but stopped after feeling conflicted to keep watching in the current political climate. Very nuanced analysis👍

I just discovered your channel and I'm binging everything, the analysis of US police is really well done. Keep it up.

The research you did for this is insane

This was so incredibly insightful. I've been unsure of where I stand with the show because it's one of my favourite shows of all time but the subject matter is undoubtedly problematic. I, like most of its viewers, have never seen B99 as a realistic take on the police, more as what the police would look like in a "perfect world". But they tackle real issues that happen in the real world, therefore it's not set in a "perfect world" and we're supposed to think we're seeing a version of reality. And like you said, a lot of the behaviours the characters exhibit are concerning but they're shrugged off due to humour. I've been so happy to see them address bigotry and systemic policing issues but I'm realising it's not enough. Really curious and excited to see what they do in this upcoming season. They have the potential to be groundbreaking; I hope they take the opportunity.

Would you consider a video on Criminal Minds too? I’m confused if they’re cop propaganda or not since the BAU is indeed a part of the FBI, however they often make it seem like regular cops are useless without their division (which is composed of people with degrees in psychology and such)

Loving this series and can't wait for your video on The Wire!

i like the fact that the characters never shot anyone on the show, except for when amy shot jake

Probably need a post-script on Brooklyn Nine Nine now, what with the shift in theme during this last season.