I have been to many hifi shows over the years and across the globe. My impression is that your comment about the five grand cut off as far as sound quality goes is spot on. All of these events have one thing in common. The all pervading aroma of lonely old man sweat!

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

There was a lot of that!

@r423sdex

3 ай бұрын

😂 very true, they lap it up. Give them a free bag and some leaflets, they are in heaven.

@rickg8015

3 ай бұрын

Best comment.. Err Best last sentence🤣..

@donjohnson3701

3 ай бұрын

Fairy dust is expensive! Remember your hifi in the dorm? Just didn’t get better than that did it? When is it just “good enough”?

@LOTPOR0402

3 ай бұрын

And as you get older your ears deteriorate anyway .A catch 22 situation

I have built many systems over the past 40 year. I have a system thats the best sound to me i have ever had. Its the cheapest one i have assembled. I built this one on measurements from the ASR forum. Performance to pounds is exceptional. No fancy cables,power supplies,power conditioners, fuses, cable lifters. The system cost less than what i spent on cables in the past. I now realise how stupid and gullible i was, the bs in audio is insane.

@jameshutton5979

3 ай бұрын

Can you list what you have please?

@michaeljordan6008

3 ай бұрын

So absolutely true. Incredibly diminishing returns on your investment. But some people buy into the absurdity 🤣

@misc1686

3 ай бұрын

This comment made me smile... I went to this show with a friend of mine and we were mainly disappointed. Our 40 year old Japanese hifi's running through Dirac sounds every bit as good as the best to offer at the show... Like yourself, no fancy cables just some old school gear with room EQ.

Good summery. The most important part of hi fi is your ears, followed by the room you stick all your hi fi in.

LOVE your show!! Absolutely entertaining. Keep going buddy. A fan from Minneapolis. USA. 😀

With Hifi it's just down to how well a piece of music is produced, if it is done we'll, then that piece of music will sound good on most Hifi systems. Not worth paying 10's of thousands, that's just for people with more money than sense

I've now been into HiFi for 40+ years (perhaps one of those old guys you refer to) I am glad you raised the subject about sound v cost. Having had very big expensive speakers and amps in the past, I can assure you there is definitely a limit where very expensive equipment stops sounding better......it just starts to sound different. Yes build quality tends to go up along with production techniques (basically the very expensive equipment is very much hand built and not mass produced) I can't really put a price limit on it and say you shouldn't ever need to pay more than 3k for a pair of speakers but a great example is the BBC LS3/5A, new almost 3k....but they sound small, dynamically limited with little to no true bass, yes they do midrange very well but music is not just about the midrange, 3k well spent?...depends how caught up in the nostalgia you want to be. I am not really into Wharfedale (always been a Tannoy fan) But, I am very interested in Wharfedale's new Super Denton, that could be a game changer for under a grand! For me, once you go above about 3k, it's very difficult for the human ear to translate any improvement in sound v value for money, in truth your extra money is paying for a low production run speaker with handcrafted cabinets and better? cross over component's but I expect if you measure in room response, they would have flaws just like any other speaker. The EVO 4.2 is great example of what a budget speaker can do using the latest drivers and computer modeled cross overs. and all for under £650. I also heard the Wharfedale Linton 85's at my local hifi shop powered by a tube amp, they sounded like a very expensive speaker, amazing value. And that's what's its all about, do you like the sound, is it good value and well built.

Agree with your observations on diminishing returns. Your ears are fine.

I love your channel. Speak truthfully and sincerely. You have beautiful equipment. Excellent equipment price vs quality. Enjoy.

@iancatchpole5223

3 ай бұрын

Love your comments and your sense of fun, the whole Industry is set up to make you believe that new is better and what you already have is inferior..same With Cars...all I would say with that is for me, it's all about the front end..."Rubbish in Rubbish out" Can't comment on streaming service's but a example: Marantz 63 mk 11 KI. A hot rod for it's time, upgraded by Fidelity Audio , (no I am not a. Affiliate ) turned this into something magical and the same amps and speakers were transformed. Yes I still love those silver discs...then again I am old and remember 78's..... So there modern to me .😂 Let's never forget to enjoy the music, if what ever system you may have makes you "Feel it" why worry about the new "Carlos Fandango" equipment..🎉

@vaughntonkin539

3 ай бұрын

I still spin those 78's@@iancatchpole5223

The most important comment you made: " I'm happy with what I've got." Thanks for your uploads, they helped in the selection of my new system. I spent more than i wanted at £1100! But I'm happy with what I've got.

Old hand here - also from Wales - and couldn't agree more. Been to quite a few shows over the years and, allowing for the limitations necessarily imposed by demoing gear in hotel rooms, it has often amazed me how underwhelmed I have been by the so called super systems. For example, even though they had a large room and thus can’t blame the acoustics, the Wilson Benesch systems have consistently failed to impress for the huge money they cost. I have an eclectic system that has been built on what I hear rather than on what I "should" be buying. What I have found with many expensive systems is that they sound too clinical and detached, they lack that sense of the music being in the room. This year there were a couple of system that captured my attention for their naturalness though, and your views very much accorded with mine. I loved the Hegel/Amphion vinyl setup you mentioned, in fact it was one of the best sounding. Although, interestingly, the matching floorstanders in the next room were nowhere near as nice (possibly because they were using streaming rather than vinyl). Talking about streaming, I still remain unsure, and I suspect many of the systems you thought were harsh might be the result of using streamers as a source? That said, possibly the best sounding system for me was a streaming based one, the exception that proves the rule you might say It was the Innuos system with large Sonus Faber florostadners, in the room next to Wharfedale. That was an amazing sound I thought! Btw, I too bought some Lintons after demoing speakers up to £5k, they are great bang for the buck, although I have now massively upgraded the crossovers for my sins! Other speakers I liked were the tiny Neat Petites and the little Russell K’s. I am typically a floorstander guy, and that is why I struggled for ages before pulling the trigger on the Lintons, so I was curious to see if there were any floorstanders at the show I liked. I wasn’t so keen on the Wharfedale ones you discussed (although I was impressed the little Super Ditton’s for the money). I was curious about the big Dioras you mentioned, and even got them to play a track for me, but they did indeed sound harsh, although I suspect it was again the fact they were using streaming as I know the CD version of the track they played, which is nowhere near as toppy. To finish, I agree it is not necessary to spend fortunes, it is more about component synergy and ultimately what your personal taste is. But I will say one purchase I made a year or so ago was an R2R ladder DAC that made a huge improvement to my system. It was by a Chinese company called Gustard, and it is stunning for the money. I am primarily a vinyl guy though, but that is another story! Anyway, if you live near Cardiff and ever want to collaborate, drop me a line. Cheers

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

Thanks, I forgot to mention the Innuos set up. I agree, it was a pleasure to listen to.

You nailed it, "Bragging rights". Best, D.

I agree with you. IF you hear the difference, AND can justify it then it's worth it TO YOU. Audio is such a personal thing.

Great summary.

I enjoyed that, thanks. Some good humour thrown in there. And yeah, find something that is enjoyable to your ears and spend the time, money and energy on the music hunting and listening. It can quickly become more about the gear and that is a trap you don't want to fall into. Unless you have limitless amounts of cash of course..

Lots of fun and choice.Best hit was my KT 66 Valves and Yamaha monitors then improving the sources dacs through time.70s on. Another system for Theatre of course.

Back in the 60s we used to build our own using radio spares and practical wireless designs...................twice as good for a tenth of the price

I used to have a 10k Krell based system..but spent all my time listening to the equipment............My system now is a A400 Pioneer amp feeding Celestion SL6 speakers .......with a good DAC receiver with my phone tuned into Spotify...............Less than £1000 inclusing a Spotify subscription. These days I'm listening to the Music :)

I think your spot on each time I’ve upgraded spending more and more the sound difference is minimal if any, I’m now stuck around the £4000 mark and later this year I’m getting my last upgrade an Audiolab amp

I’ve gone back to my old hifi system which I had in the eighties technics cost £250 on offer. Managed to obtain recently charity shop fine connected it up and my old monitor audio silver 8i woke up amazed by the sound it produced a hundred times better than the Linn classik I’ve had for a few years astonishing and amazing by the difference the technics produced I was now listening to all the instruments like never before

@Coneman3

2 ай бұрын

Can get good sound from most gear. I have Myryad amps from the 90s that still sound superb. That’s my 2nd system. It’s often an addiction Hifi.

I think you are spot on!!! For me, I downsized to a smaller place and sold off my approximate $10K system (the speakers/ equipment had very good reviews) to a $1,500 system (which also had very good reviews). I found that this $1,500 system provides me virtually the same listening enjoyment as my previous system (maybe it's because of my room acoustics/ synergy, or my hearing is going?!?), in fact, I feel it provides a bit better sound stage as well. Anyway, I think "some' audiophiles get caught up with "looks/ eye candy" that some speakers and equipment provide, and current reviews by various reviews. As for REVIEWERS, IMO they should "all" state the condition & range of their hearing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have got the same turntable and cartridge like you by the way. Superb combination.

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

Cool! Can you let me know the model please?

@dertechniker8867

3 ай бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK of course. Turntable: AT-LPW50PB, cartridge: AT-VM95ML. I use the phono input (module) of my Atoll amplifier.

I thought the new Wharfedale Super Dentons might get a mention. These are soon to be released to market, and feature dome midrange drivers compared to the Linton's cones. I wonder how they will compare to each other.

@andrewbrazier9664

2 ай бұрын

Several different sources saying they are a genuine sound step up. £1K? is not bad in these inflationary times You'd spend more than that on 1 coffee out a day over a year.!!! 🔊 🤯

You asked a very valid question. I’ve repeatedly found that price has nothing to do with performance. There are good and bad pieces of equipment at nearly every price category. What sounds good or bad for me, may not be in line with someone else. I also repeatedly ran situations where “less than marvelous” equipment sounded good, because of setup and room acoustics.

I also have the Lintons, fantastic! I have a fairly small room but these work so well and have a sound I just love. The difference between these and old Dali Oberon 5 (for my room and how I like it to sound) was night and day. I then upgraded from Marantz PM6007 and CD6007 to Model 50 and CD60. Beautiful looks, build and controls but at around 3x the price only subtle sound difference. It takes the system with t/t to around £4k, and as another comment rightly said £2k to £4k is about the price to be paying.

Thank you for this interesting 🤔 video. I just picked up the Audiolab 6000CDT along with the latest Denafrips Ares 12-1 DAC …and I’m very happy with the combination. Once again 🍻

@r423sdex

3 ай бұрын

£100 gets you a Dac that resolves cd 16/44.1 .

@thepuma2012

3 ай бұрын

@@r423sdex he is building a 5000 pound system i guess. what will the amp and speakers be?

@Coneman3

2 ай бұрын

That transport is best Hifi bargain going imo. I have one too.

The Wharfedale super Denton looks interesting for those who don’t have space for the lintons. Personally I think the sweet spot for proper hifi is a system costing 2-4 grand, after that you are paying a lot for little improvements, not a problem if you’re well off though of course. I mean I would.

Really enjoy your posts Marty, honest and real. So many overhyped hifi posts full of billhooks on YT. Based on my experience, I'd advise against putting too much trust in HiFi exhibition setups. I've had consistently disappointing purchases after demos. It's safer to make your purchase decisions after trying out a demo in your own home.

How much do you need to spend on an amp and speakers?.. it really depends on how loud you like to listen, how big your listening area is, and how far away you are from the speakers.. did you get a chance to check out the Dovedales when you were in the Wharfedale room? I'd be curious your thoughts if you heard them..

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

They had them there but they didn't hook them up. Display only.

@shipsahoy1793

3 ай бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK WoW! Did they give you a good reason why they would do that ?!

Do you think the Dali menuets would pair well with hegel h190 oldermodel thanks

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

The Dali's are rated at 4 ohms with a recommended amp of up to 100 watts. I think the Hegel is 150 watts per channel into 8 ohms? You could get away with it if you listen at lower volumes but may not be worth the risk.

@johningham4219

3 ай бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK hi interesting I've heard them with the new elecit mk 5 which I think is less powerful and sounded very good .can get ex demo h190 for same price as rega thanks for your reply.

I went to the show yesterday and felt exactly like you. I was expecting to be blown away , jaw dropping reactions, but this only happened in the Dali room. Those menuetes packed a punch for their size. The hifi on show were probably all better than my second hand system, but the sound was not better by a mile. It was my first show also si I had high expectations. I ve booked London in APril. I also did a playlist of songs I haven’t heard which I will play on my system to try and compare what I heard yesterday.

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

I actually did something similar! I wrote down some of the songs being played there. When I got back I played them on my system!

@andrewbrazier9664

2 ай бұрын

Apparently majority were demoed with streamed music? 🎶

Maybe beyond £2-3K the best upgrade is room acoustic treatment. Or more CDs/records!

Chasing the latest in an attempt to get hi fidelity is the problem.. I have my Kef Reference 104/2s, and Audiomat Prelude Reference amp and chord DAC.. I would have to spend a silly amount of money to get better imo.. and even then how much better… you’re spot on

After last years experience i think the North Audio Show and London one will be the one I go to 👌🏾

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

What happened last year 🤔

I know EXACTLY what you mean.

Totally agreewith you, £3000-£5000 is about it. A sensible video I think its just bragging rights. I have a Vincent amp bought off of flee bay for £150. Auditioned some amps up to £2500 and to be honest I prefered my old Vincent.. Saved the money and invested it in me woman and booze....

@bobjames6622

3 ай бұрын

"Saved the money and invested it in me woman and booze...." That so reminded me of that great line from George Best when he was being interviewed in his hayday. BTW, I'm paraphrasing a bit, but it's near enough to the real interview. Interviewer: "what have you spent your money on" George: "About 95% of it has gone on birds and booze" Interviewer: "And the other other 5%" George: "I squandered that" LOL!

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

I've just invested in booze, women were too expensive!

@bobjames6622

3 ай бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK Never a truer word spoken! At least with booze there is some fun before the pain hits. With women....the pain starts from the get go and only ever gets worse! LOL!

@vaughntonkin539

3 ай бұрын

W&B = waste of money, I'd rather stuff it in the bank

@johnholmes912

2 ай бұрын

I am still using amps that I bought in the 1980s, and they outperform most modern amps by miles. The phono-stage in the pre-amps of that vintage were superb

The trick is to find the sweet point of cost and performance 😊

@bobjames6622

3 ай бұрын

My idea of cost and performance is the recent McIntosh and Sonus Faber collaboration system which comes in at roughly £1million. So I've decided to treat myself....So far I've only got another £998,000 left to save up! I'm now 57 so I reckon if that I keep on saving I'll be able to get that dream system around about the age of 250! LOL!

Most of the system's there are for large rooms but for the normal person 3k is enough to spend.

I don't think its about price but about careful selection at price points. There are components at most price points that out perform equipment that are 3 times its price. You just have to know which products to seek out. My experience is uk nake the best speakers but we have to go abroad to Europe to find really good quality and fair priced electronics. Thats what I did and haven't heard better for 25 years.

When Hifi costs more than cars and holidays the mind boggles my system is second hand buying and selling upgrading as I go is part of the fun just enjoy the music without eating jam sandwiches for the rest of your life 👍🏻🇬🇧

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

And probably value jam at that!

Excellent points made in the video. Personally I think it’s all down to our ears, the type of music we listen to and room size. There comes a point where, as you said, more cash for only a small increase in sound quality. As long as I’m happy and enjoying listening to music on my system in my room, which is what it’s all about - actually sitting down to listen to the music than price dosent come in to it.

@andrewbrazier9664

2 ай бұрын

Agree and so often limited by quality of recordings. I'm a pop & rock fan so we rarely get recording quality on a par with classical or good Jazz. Many new albums seem to to more tuned to the ipod /mobile phone listener to boost the number of streams? 🤔

I really do think there is...my own system consists of 2nd hand speakers £500, Ex Demo CD player £500, and All in one Amp/Streamer ex Demo £2200, Turntable I had from the 70's which is still absolutely fine just added a new mm cartridge, so around £3300 in total, sounds absolutely brilliant and have no plans to change, sometimes I sit with my eyes closed involved in the sound in front of me...I am older ...but wiser and of course what music you are playing.

Timely video! My journey started with a used pair of Zu Omen Dirty Weekend speakers... I had tens of thousands of dollars in gear, it is all gone, sold it all except for one PS Audio Gaincell DAC, $800 on used market. My amp of choice? A vintage 1970 Sansui 4000 receiver, $200. I recently picked up a little Cayin EL84 tube amp, and am enjoying the heck out of that, $500. Streaming? For laughs, I bought a WiiM Pro, wanting to see what all of the hype was about, $150, plus the LHY Linear Power Supply, $100. I upgraded the Zu Omens to the Zu DW6 Supreme speakers, $2600... Yep, $4350 got me to audio Nirvana... I had a DAC that cost nearly that much. Diminishing returns, and finding what simply works best together. Now, I listen to the music, not the gear. Priceless.

I have often found me considering this, what is the difference in the sound quality in say an amp at £5,000 to another one at £8,000 I bet it fairly minimal. I do have to admit I haven’t heard a very high priced system. How could you measure something at double the price when they pretty much do the same job……..is it really double the benefit?

nice video, do you really think, that if you double the price you will get double better sound? I didn’t know any technical stuff, where you get double better products. Yes high end stuff is very expensive, but that what you have to pay for the upper class

For me with Hi End audio, there is a point of diminishing returns where one is paying above and beyond, just for the bragging rights. However, I love seeing high end, just to see in terms of technology and what is possible in terms of looks and performance. One day, money willing I would love to buy a Hegell amp as they do sound unique and very special. Thumbs up Martin.

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

I was impressed with the Hegal, especially so it's built in phono stage.

Those hi end stereo are good but very expensive, some rich people can afford them but normal people from middle class can't, so alternatively we can turn to the used market to find much better deals (with some risk). You're right it's not 10 times better and we can enjoy music with Linton's as well 👍

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

There's some good used stuff around which still holds its own today!

@r423sdex

3 ай бұрын

Personally I'm only interested in sound quality. It can be had for very little at the present time. Most reviewers on KZread will not help you, everything is better according to them, night and day.😂

@thepuma2012

3 ай бұрын

@@r423sdex indeed. in general i don t trust reviews here. everything sounds great. I would like to see comparisons much more.

The high end is good because of trickle down technology. For example: QA Concept 300/ 500 > Concept 30/ 50. The price difference between the two is more noticeable than what you hear.

Pretty much agree with your summary. I went with some mates to the show, they were all super impress with the Dali room using the Minuet and Lyngdorf 3400 combination. Which is a £6500 combo but I guess you'd get similar results with the Lyngdorf 1120 for a total of £3500. The Lyngdorf Room Perfect software is amazing. Either way it showed just how good a small speaker setup correctly can sound and you don't necessarily need a huge floor stander, for a smaller room. If anything on average the rooms with the big speakers sounded pretty bad to me, either sitting too close to the speakers so all the woofers aren't integrating before reaching your ears or the rooms had terrible room modes making them very boomy. The Lockwood speakers sounded great despite being huge. Was also impressed with Pearl Acoustics. Definitely agree with your opinion some speakers being quite harsh, too bright or whatever someone might want to call it. I don't think I heard the Diora speakers you did, they were playing the Lada 3 (the rocket / front of a yacht looking speakers), which we all thought sounded really good. As you said though, the main consensus of the group when leaving the show was that our current systems sounded pretty good. I wouldn't mind trying some Iso Acoustic Gala's on my main speakers as that could actually make a different without costing an fortune. As for the point of diminishing returns, using new prices for an average UK living room, I think it's around £5000-10000. I know that's still a fair amount but the step up from a £2000 system to a £5000 can be substantial, you're talking about maybe adding room correction software, a subwoofer, higher quality components across the board. Over £5000 to £10000 you could probably get extremely close to your dream sound. Anything over that would be for looks, bragging rights or something in those realms. That's my thoughts at least. I'm just glad I came back from the show not drooling over anything new to buy. ...and what's up with some of the music choices the rooms had playing, I think I would have preferred an overplayed Audio show song to the weird instrumental tracks.

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

Yeah I noticed that the music choices were a little weird in some rooms!

My old Tannoy sgm 12x still sounds great. Dont want to spent alot of money for something not sounding better

Another thing, you should consider beefing your existing speakers (i have the same) with room treatment. I think spending 2k€ or so in room treatment beats spending 10k€ in new speakers by far.

Hello Marty, you're absolutely right about audiophile prices for hifi. Its ridiculous when people spend five figures or more,so many factors influence how good a system can sound at that price. I look at it like this, can a system or individual hifi equipment be x amount better than another x amount cheaper. Eg. A set of speakers 20 times better than another costing £10,000 as opposed to £500? Also will the human ear appreciate that 20 times better sound. Yes,we strive for bigger, better equipment but it gets to a point where its just the name and aesthetic of a system that warrants the price.

HI, I went to the show as well on the Sunday, one thing you forgot to mention it wasn't just the source and the speakers some of the cabling that was used I expect that was in the £100/£1000's as well

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

Very likely!

Great video! There is definitely a point of diminishing returns, however, it is mostly true for all hobbies. I am into music production as well and you won't record that much better sound with a $6000 microphone! Yet, there is a market for it as there are people who buy these things and there are people who choose their recording studio based on this number of Neumann mics they have :) Same with watches and cars, sports, etc. If you like hiking you can get better gear to be able to go further and in more comfort but at a certain point you only pay for the newest shiny shiny technical jacket because its your hobby and you are willing to invest in it. Some people are happy with their Decathlon gear and they have other priorities in life. Same with Hi-Fi, I have friends who could care less about the gear they listen their music on. They spend their money on vinyl only. I am more of a gear-head :) Would I buy that expensive gear if I won the lottery? YES I WOULD, because its my hobby and a priority for me. I don't drink, I don't go to parties, I don't save up for a new car, etc. I am happy with what I have and with the tweaks I can make to slowly and gradually make my system better - and this way I like this hobby even more as I enjoy these changes, I enjoy the journey, I enjoy tinkering with my system.

Currently, my main system cost around £4.5K all told and barring equipment failure, is where I'm content to stop. I do all my listening using digital music files stored on SSD, and the most significant upgrade recently was a £399 Singxer SU-2 DDC -- as good probably as spending thousands more on other kit with only marginal increases in sound quality. As it happens, I also have a pair of Dali Menuet SE's, and they do sound good for their size. But IMHO one can spend less for better IF one is prepared to do some DIY. Decware ZF15M open baffle clones are absurdly easy to build from plans you can buy for $30. I built mine in less than a day. I got the baffles cut professionally from 40mm thick solid oak 3' square tabletops -- and since there's no crossover, there's no soldering involved with the full-range 15" drivers. They cost me about £1300, i.e. cheaper than the Dali Menuet SEs. Only thing is, they're quite big and not everyone might have the space. If anyone wants an immaculate pair of the Dalis at a bargain price, just let me know. 🙂

I think the sweet spot on money for a decent HiFI system is £3-4k ..maybe £5k tops .. for the discerning HifI dudes

I think your video is spot on . I must admit I do love to get better stuff, as in upgrading. But there comes a point when you must say stop . The point being is there are lots and lot of fantastic kit out there but at the end of the day how critical is it. I spent hours seting up the speakers just right , so it sounds like your in the studio with the artist. Once you have that sound you are just there in the moment. I myself have been to the shows over the past 50 years. And to the big shops in London. They are absolutely great but it's still down to your own invirament and your hearing

Been to a few HiFi shows. Most audio gear is just snake oil. I've heard 50k setups thrashed by a 2k setup in the next room. My monitor audio bronze 100's produce a great well balanced sound for not much outlay. Ide have to spend thousands more for a 5% improvement. Not worth it in my opinion.

It's all about budget. If one is a millionair it doesn't matter what it cost. Buying the best gear for your ears and budget is the trick.

Of course diminishing returns is a thing, and of course a modest outlay gets you 90% there. The ASR mob are also probably correct that you can get SoTA electronics for a small amount. I also find the vinyl thing a cul-de-sac, driven by a strange amalgamn of hipsterdom & sad-man nostalgia, rather than sound quality. I've just renewed my Roon & Qobuz Studio subs. for c.£250, which must be the best bargain in the history of mankind. After many years, I'm convinced that at least c.75% of your budget should go on speakers, and that big and active is best if you absolutely MUST get to that missing 10%, which is of course a function of how important music is in your life. Of course, I'd rather listen to music I like on £5 earbuds, than music I don't on ATC 300's.

I thought the Hagel / Amphion was one of the most listenable rooms at the show, and Fyne audio / Tannoy were the other rooms I felt sounded good. Most of the rest I thought was pretty poor! I’m 57 too, sounds like you heard similar things to me, I would highly recommend you have a listen to a Spendor BC1 or modern day equivalent, I think you would love them! One caveat I would put into this video is that in a bigger room, you would likely hear more differences in higher end gear, in small rooms at the show your not going to hear the full potential. But I agree, for the average room in uk, it’s overkill. After a certain point you are buying jewellery.

@andrewbrazier9664

2 ай бұрын

I didn't attend this year but last year I also enjoyed the Hegal Amphion demo best. Last year it was the less powerful H120 amplifier (£2250) & bookshelf speakers (£1300) from a turntable source 👍

@paulkelleway8032

2 ай бұрын

@@andrewbrazier9664 yes it was a turntable source this time as well, I’ve heard a lot of gear over the years and I know a good coherent and homogenous sound when I hear one, I’ve learned how to listen properly over the years and I’ve heard how real instruments actually sound, this has given me the tools to navigate through the “5 minute wows” and not be swayed by price (it costs a lot so must be better syndrome), I am now able to spend my time on the pleasures of audio, and in my humble opinion we reached the top in the 1970’s in terms of pure musical pleasure, not power handling or jewellery, just the joy of reproduced music. Since then marketers have taken over from engineers who actually voiced things because they cared about sound not profit.

@andrewbrazier9664

2 ай бұрын

@@paulkelleway8032 I can't read music but have been to a good range of concertse & musicals. Yes although reviews are a useful starting point select by your ears & personal presentation preferance not by price ie well it's £100 more so must be better syndrome 👍

£30k speakers are still speakers using the same principles as all the others.

@r423sdex

3 ай бұрын

Dr Floyd has a video about speakers, watch it. It will definitely open your eyes, to what you don't get for your money.

The only system I'd sell my soul for is Audionote

What's the difference between a £100,000 system and a £10,000 system? £90,000 What's the difference between a £100,000 system and a £5,000 system? £95,000. What's the difference between a £100,000 system and a £1000 system? Well...now we're talking!

Subconsciously you have a max price point for a system and enjoy the products that correspond to this level of investment. We will always want to upgrade regardless of our previous purchases. Some people have so much more money and even more passion. I do agree that after a certain price point the return on investment is negligible. I own three pairs of loudspeakers and enjoy switching them around. The only thing I noticed is that my girlfriend doesn’t like one pair that hurts her hearing. The treble is really harsh. She will leave the room! They happen to be the more expensive pair 😅

11:57 29,9999.99 I like how they put the 99 cents afterwards to squeeze out that last dollar.

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

Like I'm not going to buy it if it's exactly 30k! 😄

Been to a few hi fi shows over the years and as far as sound goes, I don’t think they are the ideal place/setting to judge how good a product/system is. I think also you get to a point where the cost of some systems isn’t worth it in terms of sonic improvements over a system costing far less. You’d may instantly hear the difference between a £1000 system and £5000 system, but not so much between a £10000 system and £30000 system. Plus at the end of the day it’s what you and your ears like.

Physics is physics. If the speaker box is small, you aren't going to get deep bass-regarding the Dalis-very skeptical of the actual bass response. Nice review! 5K would be my absolute max investment in a sound system. My rig is 2000 dollars. Very pleased with it. Audio gear becomes a money spending show. Also, what you hear in those demo rooms is not what you will experience in your room. The louder set-ups leave the biggest impressions! I am 57, my hearing above 14 khz is gone. Most older guys can't hear the higher frequencies anymore.

Mate your reviews are fabulious no snake oil BS Lintons are a great speaker but you have to have a powerful amp Rega elex R just fabulous

@ramblinginmeath4950

3 ай бұрын

Im running my Lintons from a Sugden A21 and for me its a perfect match .. awesome partnership - I had the Leak 30 and whilst it is a lovely amp - the Sugden is at a entirely different level - albeit at a different price point ..

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

@ramblinginmeath4950 Do you still play the bass?

@ramblinginmeath4950

3 ай бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK my sons the bass player 😎

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

@@ramblinginmeath4950 🎸

I would rather have a pile of cds coming though my letter box boss 👍 and yes old ears won't pick up stuff like a sound engineer 🤣

AT higher prices, customers are paying mostly furniture grade aesthetics, can play louder if needed to; No, they do not provide audience a more flatter frequency response. Even at $100,0000 price tag, no manufacture will claim a +1 and -1 db frequency response, that can be verified by independent measurements.

@swllz

3 ай бұрын

Constant upgrading of speakers waste money for ordinary people. But for rich people, it is just a furniture upgrading. For Trump, he would spend his money to upgrade his wife to younger ones.

Your Right its all Bragging Rights,every body picks up sound to there ears differently ....as Tchaikovsky once said...all music is just noise until its picked up by a receptive ear,and everyone Hearing is different.don't get me wrong i love listening to a good sound,but don't ask me to tell you the difference between mp3 320 or flac aiff or any other files.the way i look at it is if its sounds nice to you then your happy.....Love your Videos...

It sounds like you love your Linton's. Nothing wrong with that. Keep them until you find out that you miss something. I had Kef ref 1, and I never had any issues with box sounds, or lack of bass. They got eventually sold. And I tried cheaper speakers. Then you'll notice the difference. You'll notice the small changes, like hearing the box in one way or another, having an annoying sound around voices, that might come from the cross over, or the box itself, or that the drivers isn't perfect in some places.. These are the things Kef ref 1 don't have. LS 50 have a lot of them. I use them now, waiting for the Elysian 4. I have to have a speaker that is of great quality. Because the differences are there. It's not the is it worth 10k more, that's the wrong angle. Is some wine better and more costly than a cheap one? I would assume so. So which one do YOU deserve? One can have the philosophy that, Elysian 4 isn't 8 grand better than the Linton. For me it is, or I would've bought the Linton's. I listen to music every day for several hours, don't I deserve the best? The cost/value thing is subjective. It's up to you to decide if its worth it or not. And for the quality, it ages like wine. You might not hear it there and then, but when you live with them. Then you will notice the differences. I can't go back. Anyway, this is my anecdotal point of view :)

Well, in theory you could, roughly, match all of these systems with a MiniDSP Flex, a pair of Neumann KH-120 II and two SVS SB-1000 subwoofers. The problem is, this wouldn't look nice in your home at all. I have a Yamaha A-S1200 amp for 2000€ or so. Some time ago i replaced it's power amp section with a Fosi V3 amp for 100€. There was no difference to me, in terms of fidelity. I'm sure there are differences in the measurements, but both are good enough that their flaws don't matter. That said, the Fosi V3 looks like nothing and the Yamaha A-S1200 with it's VU meters in silver looks very substantial and the dials feel nice too. I kept both ;-).

Most equipment is so good now that there is a sweet spot where it’s hard to go wrong. There is also the ability to buy and use vintage high end equipment cheaply and be happy. We are seeing budget equipment from China that over achieves. High end equipment is better. It’s expensive to do research and development, the engineering and materials are expensive. The time to build devices is longer and the number made is fewer. All of that equates to fewer on sale and each one has a high price tag. The number sold a year is small. High price tags are inevitable especially taking into account product styling and marketing. At Hi Fi shows, a lot of equipment is working in sub-optimal conditions so it’s hard to hear what it really does. Some great equipment sounds terrible and some average equipment can sound astonishing depending on how it survives being set up and the ability to operate under show conditions. I find these shows stressful, but it’s great to meet designers and manufacturers and to learn new things from the event. I often get home and find my equipment is out of adjustment and needs setting up better. Now that there are very few Hifi shops we get to see what’s current and that’s what’s interesting.

I have quite a bit of high end gear, yet the one item I would always keep would be my monster LEAK 2075 (15 inch bass) speakers from the 70's. I really would put them up against MOST modern speakers. Most expensive speakers I hear (or heard) at shows sounded terrible to me with intense in yer face brightness and limp bass thru tiny 6.5 inch bass units. Stopped going to shows in 2012 as the sonics were so poor ??

@UTILITARIANTVUK

27 күн бұрын

Is that the one which looks it has another speaker laying sideways on top?

@christophermaley6822

27 күн бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK YES it is. I have the mk 1's which have the better tweeter (round black) and CAST lower mid. Even SE tube amps can drive them and small trannies. Paid £350 about 10 years ago.

500 is good enough for most ears and room size in the world of 2 channel Hifi , especially if you buy used .The world of audio visual is a bit like cars , let some other muppet buy new and take on the depreciation .You need to remember when buying new you are buying a warranty as well as the product. Even these modern mini class D amps work well with built in bluetooth , which is what most want now

I see that Dali were using a lyngdorf amp , and they probably boosted the bass with the digital tone controls. No brainier for the show , first impressions count . Just don’t turn it up too loud as those drivers will soon lose control. Physics. Unfortunately you can’t really judge a hi end system in a tiny hotel room . I think you need to spend 8-10k new price on each component to get a great system but getting that synergy is not easy . But I’m cheap and never buy new so 8-10 k can be 4k . But it can bite you in the ass . As my 15k new, 6k to me second hand integrated amplifier has gone faulty with no warranty 😢 ouch .

Sorry, I just wanted to comment on the question in the thumbnail. Yes, it blooming well is for those who love the hobby of hifi setups.

@r423sdex

3 ай бұрын

If you just want to look at it !.

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

And have lots of cash! 😄

@mrpositronia

3 ай бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK Not in each case. Window shopping is just as fun. :^D

I was on a show in Stockholm 2 weeks ago and the only speakers that impressed me was the Neat Mystique Classic, a ~£3000 speaker and one of the cheapest settings in the whole show. There also was some semi-open baffle speakers I liked. But the ~£150 000 dollar Hegel powered Dali speaker setup, with Dalis biggest and best in a sound treated theater room just made me wanna leave. You are listening to the rooms and all the audiophile farts mostly. There was one setup where they wanted to show off with a drum track from Gergo Borlai, and the snare was waaaay to high. Sounded nothing like drums at all. My theory is that they boost the high end to give all those old farts some feeling that it sounds "detailed", since 80 % of the folks there cant hear shit above 12000 Hz. I could rant about all the dull, booring shitty music but... man... The easiest songs on planet earth for speakers to play. I still had fun though since I went with an old time friend. Any excuse is a good one for keeping friendships alive! Rant over! 😂

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

Ah maybe that's why I found some of the equipment a little harsh sounding?

@andrehendrik

3 ай бұрын

I keep hearing great things about those Neat speakers, pretty impressive how they consistently manage to deliver great sound but also keep them fun to listen to

@OlaJustin

3 ай бұрын

@@andrehendrik yeah, they really didnt sound like a straight up simple fourth order vented speaker, but thats what they were. Now, I dont know what they sound like at my listening levels and music so they might have some fault I didnt notice but they impressed me then and there. The smaller ones too.

£5-10k per component is probably best anyone could ever need. After that it’s tiny tiny bits not worth it.

@Coneman3

2 ай бұрын

More for speakers, maybe £20k

95% of the people into hi fi stereo sound, or even home theatre, shouldn't need to spend more than the $$ it would take to buy a nice new motorbike. 😮

Expensive does not mean better so much is subjective how can you jude?

In my opinion when you are talking 20 k for a system, that is more or less mid-fi. The step up from the 5 k and under "budget" or entry level systems. And budget is the key word. Most of have limited funds for this hobby and it puts us squarely in a niche. Then there are some that have a bit more to spend, doctors, lawyers etc. But they still aren't going to blow a quarter million on some speakers and amps. That's hi-end audiphile shit right there. The guys with so much money they can't spend it all. So is mid fi stuff worth it at 20 to 30 k say up to 50k? Sure. There is plenty of satisfaction to be had there if your budget allows it. A lot of it is aethetics. There are some gorgeous looking unique speakers out there and that is a lot of what you pay for. Build quality. Sound wise yea, better but relative to cost, the sound doesn't improve as much as the looks and build quality do. As for high end, 100k and up systems, that's just for people who have nothing better to do than spend money. But good on them. It pushes the technology and we all benefit from that at every level.

@johnholmes912

2 ай бұрын

The price of the components ( caps, transformers etc.) in a 20K system is only marginally more than a 5K system

Expersive hifi is not worth it I had quad 988 quad 2 forty my lintons with rega elex r are just as good dont waiste your money

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

I'm glad it's not just me!

No not worth silly price just enjoy the music have made mistakes in the past been to lots of shows in the past nice to look at listen

I find that there is never agreement amongst the audiophile community on anything. I love the sound of tube amplifiers. I know I’m in the minority and folks who love the SS systems are right to highlight the advantages. But the sound of tubes isn’t replicated (nor should it be). So what makes a 300b amplifier more expensive? Look up the prices of output transformers. They range from $75USD to over $1,000USD each. Can you hear the differences? You certainly can between the extremes but not so much much between similarly priced OTs. Tubes are the same. Big differences. So does my $6K tube amp sound different from my $2500 amp. Yes. Better midrange. Is it worth the price difference? Don’t know but it was for me. The same analysis applies across DACs, preamps etc. Listen to the extremes and negotiate your way to the affordable center where you love the sound and the price. BTW, you have an excellent charismatic personality for doing this. Thanks,

@Gez492

3 ай бұрын

But the SS guys are not right.They like to think they are. Read an excerpt from Peter Q of Audionote . "Transistor amplifiers sound poor for the simple reason that transistors are inferior amplifying devices. The word “semiconductor” really means what it says and it says it all, “half”-conductor, sonically this could be translated to mean half the signal! Which is really what it sounds like. Pure and simple, transistors are highly un-linear and need a lot of correction (feedback of some sort) to have a bandwidth wide enough to be able to reproduce any music signals, they are not natural voltage amplifiers. Likewise both the pentode or tetrode requires corrective feedback to lower the load sensitivity and improve bandwidth, they are less un-linear than transistors being high impedance devices that require matching from an output transformer. Thus they sound better when used well, especially when used single-ended or in pseudo triode mode by connecting the grids together. Pentodes and tetrodes are more efficient (give higher static power) and much cheaper than triodes, this price advantage is paid for in poorer linearity and therefore overall open loop power bandwidth and load stability, nature always gives with one hand and takes with the other! Directly heated triodes on the other hand are highly linear amplifying devices, the directly heated triode is the original voltage amplifier, the first, only and still the best, it responds well to better circuits, components and materials, but they are less efficient and more expensive than pentodes and tetrodes. Thus they require efficient speakers, with power output being at a premium price". Says it all for me. I wont go back to SS

System building is the key. If you're lucky enough to be able to visit an experienced dealer, it's money very well spent.

The audiophile world is full of shit 🙃🙃🙃

Used goods 😂

Do you expect money for reviews ?

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

Are you offering? 👍

@gdwlaw5549

3 ай бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK it was a question because I can’t stand all the other KZread reviewers . They all seem to be pushing the same products at the same time. I enjoy your channel very much .

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

@@gdwlaw5549 Thanks👍 I get a little from KZread ad revenue. Most of it I put back into the channel.

@gdwlaw5549

3 ай бұрын

@@UTILITARIANTVUK it’s a very complex thing to succeed in. You need products to review and the successful KZreadrs seem to have become PR for the big brands

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

This is an issue I have, if I find something I don't like with a product, I say it! For example, Fosi Audio stopped sending me products to review. Pretty much every HiFi KZreadr received a ZA3 all I got was tumble weeds. KZreadrs don't want to say anything too bad for fear of losing sponsorships and free goods.

No, it’s not worth it.

Speakers are often the biggest ripoff in Hifi imo

THIS IS STUPID

It’s a load of wank. You’re paying for fancy veneers and bling metal boxes. If you want performance to price, buy pro active speakers and a DAC with DSP. It’ll blow the tweaked frequency response hi-Fi wank away.

@nasdkhan254

3 ай бұрын

Don't hold back 😂😂😂

@gweflj

3 ай бұрын

@@nasdkhan254 🤣 Honestly though, I used to work in the industry. It's a total racket.

@Gez492

3 ай бұрын

But everything you put through it gets converted to Digital just more unnecessary signal processing trying compensate for poor room accoustics, no doubt. If I was going active, it would be ATC SM50ASL. No Digital bollocks active crossovers dedicated qyality A/B amplification for each driver. If you have a room problem treat it not feck around with the sound.

@gweflj

3 ай бұрын

@@Gez492 I 100% agree re ATC. The reason I said DSP is that you have to have some room compensation if you're not going to treat the room because it has such a huge effect.

@johnholmes912

2 ай бұрын

DSP=Degrades Sound Permanently

Just watched the first few seconds of your video. Not for me with all your punching nonsense.... bye

@UTILITARIANTVUK

3 ай бұрын

I'm surprised you got that far! 👊👊👊