What do we think about river sizing by our hero here? The issue I have with jamming is that Hero probably 3 bets turn with a lot of nut flushes and like I said in the video if he does just call turn with nut flush not sure if he's jamming river. Also it just doesn't make sense for Hero to have a lot of boats here as I pointed out. If I had Kh Th and I thought villain was capable I would have a hard time folding for these reasons. --Bart

@coral250

Жыл бұрын

hero can definitely have boats in this line since he can have AJ. Hero should also be able to jam all nut flushes on the river because joe never has a boat as played and there is no straight flush possible.

@GRice999

Жыл бұрын

If hero doesn't have nut flushes in his range on the river because he 3-bet most of them on the turn, then he only has boats or bluffs on the river whether he bets pot or jams. So betting enough to make the king high flush fear the boat would seem correct. Trying to get villain to think you're targeting flushes with a possible nut flush sized wager seems counter-productive, as villain knows you probably don't have it and probably have more naked aces of the flush suit bluffs (especially if villain has the blockers because he has a flush). As played, Hachem took a while to fold, so the over-bet might have done the trick. Unless he was suspicious of the over-bet, whereas he might have folded a pot sized bet with more confidence. It also depends on whether villain believes you'd frequently call his turn raise with just the ace of hearts, given the poor price. Overall, I think it's best to bet making your range boats or bluffs, and remove the nut flush from your range. Whether that's pot sized or all-in is probably player dependent.

@Dexerion

Жыл бұрын

It worked. It felt bluffy because of the sizing. Any A high flush or boat would want to get Joe's exact hand to call. So the sizing would be way better odds. The hero polarized very well.

@AT-bw4cm

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget to discount sb who's trying to win bounty and could be calling flop as wide as 43. After being checked to, wouldn't the average rec be more concerned about denying equity to a random heart vs. being cautious on turn when they have a set?

@sawyerw5715

Жыл бұрын

Maybe the action on the turn(bit of a protection bet sizing), and calling sold the boat when the board paired. If he has nut flush why not reraise on turn. To me pretty convincing boat line. Admittedly there aren't many boats out there, so it is big risk to polarize. I think only a really good player would fold and evidently one did. But very dangerous play, cause it seems like he was selling JJ and not much else.

Given what Joe had this would be a sick “pick a card” hand. He picks the ace he thinks you have a higher flush. He picks the jack he thinks you have a boat.

@TaylrTownsnd

Жыл бұрын

Wow this is a really cool way to look at this.

@JayakrishnanNairOmana

Жыл бұрын

Underrated comment, Jack Strauss inspired.

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

That's what I was thinking. Ideal 'sell a card' spot.

@Aaron-ed3gb

Жыл бұрын

This is a terrible spot as you obviously have value when you say that. There are literally no bluffs where you'd do this with.

@codyobaker

Жыл бұрын

​@@Aaron-ed3gb lol this exact hand would be the bluff where you do it.

That laugh.... "Ahhhhh I just wanted to get him! " Lol, love it. This guy knows how to party!

thank you Bart for reviewing my hand! Catch up if you’re ever down in Melbourne!

@danztai

Жыл бұрын

🎉

@MforMADRID

Жыл бұрын

Daniel is there a chance I can join this toorak game?! Thanks

@ 13:36 You might be thinking about the 2006 WSOP main event. Michael Binger placed 3rd, Paul Wasicka placed 2nd, and Jamie Gold won.

I played with Chris Moneymaker a couple of years ago at talking sticks Scottsdale I was sitting next to him. I told him he was the one that got me started playing poker he said "I'm so sorry" I told him poker has been very good to me.

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

Bet he appreciated that ... I'm sure no one has ever said that to him before.

Bart's explanation perfectly explains why STRONG players tend to not favor the 7-2 game, and also explains why... ...I totally LOVE it! 🤗

@CrushlivePoker

Жыл бұрын

I am NOT a fan of the 7-2 game

@keithkelso9872

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t like it either I don’t think. I’ve thought about it before but never played that game

@brainmistrust8480

Жыл бұрын

It’s fun for social low-stakes games. Wouldn’t want to play it with a bunch of crushers.

@TheTree1

Жыл бұрын

@@brainmistrust8480 it’s better against crushers than vs weak tight amateurs tbh. I like to play it in loose splashy games but not in nitty ones. The stand ip game is way better to loosen up nitty games in the right way.

This is a great video, every street is interesting. One thing I like about this channel is that the analysis is deeper in the more difficult games. 10-20-40 against a big name pro gets a totally different breakdown than a random 1-3 or 2-5 hand.

Oh by the way I’m playing against the guy who won one of the biggest Main Events ever… Just thought I’d mention

@datsumcrzysht

Жыл бұрын

Who’s that…JH?

@datsumcrzysht

Жыл бұрын

Okay NM, just finished listening.

@tanthony298

Жыл бұрын

Lol

@MrJoosebawkz

Жыл бұрын

@@datsumcrzysht jsyk (just so you know) nm means “nothing much”. nevermind is nvm

@datsumcrzysht

Жыл бұрын

“NM” is an acceptable acronym for never mind…but I can see why many prefer nvm. But Thank you.

Swear to God I did NOT notice the thumb-nail title, and was thinking , "Wouldn't it be funny if the villain was Joe Hachem?" 😆😆😆 (btw - I wonder if Joe in the end figured hero had misplayed the winner)

@quiet_erp

Жыл бұрын

🧢

Really interesting hand and great dissection by Bart.

@CrushlivePoker

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for stopping by!

This story seems to remind me about the Rounders Movie scene when Matt Damon bluffed Johnny Chan 😅

Just in time to listen to while I get ready for the day 👍

I personally think Joe put the Hero on JJ and hit the river. Having Joe's hand I think thats the only way I lay it down.

@pot_kivach160

Жыл бұрын

Would a top full house try to force a weak flush or a straight, out of pot, instead of betting reasonably and get paid. . Which hand would call such a jam? Certainly not a weak flush nor straight. So, bluff is very likely here. Again, depending on player profile.

I'm checking that turn all day every day. I don't care that it makes my hand transparent (as far as having the ace of hearts). I can get value out of a 4th heart and I can get value from someone who is bluffing or value betting a worse jack. I'm also keeping their value bets smaller when they have a flush or straight because of my perceived weakness.

@patrick_kyker

Жыл бұрын

And it makes the pot smaller so if you want to raise the river as a bluff you can

@adday3006

Жыл бұрын

@@patrick_kyker With top pair, I'd probably stay away from bluffing the river. When I check that turn, I feel like I'm saying I have the ace of hearts, and any river bet is more likely to get called.

@Gos1234567

Жыл бұрын

Yes check back especially holding the J,

Even though Hero prob shouldn't / isn't betting the nut flush for this size on river... I actually like the play if he plays vs this guy a lot and knows he has no boats when he c/r turn and then checks board pairing river... Its the best combo to do it in theory. In my experience these old school guys are not protected when they check the river. If he's folding K high flush, he's folding his entire range, and this line prints.

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

Not sure, I think Joe was 50/50 on this one. Your op only has to call 30% of the time for you to be losing money. If he bets 120% pot, maybe I agree.

@danielwilliams9753

Жыл бұрын

If you know villain does not have boats though, does this not allow you to add nut flushes to this sizing? I guess the question is does villain only think you have boats or do they understand that you can do this with flushes as well.

I love these armchair pros slamming Hashem. It’s one hand, and looking at his Hendonmob, he rarely leaves Australia. Likely just plays cash games.

Wow! Great bluff. That was a great play. Great.

I think a lot of players do bet a set on the turn even though the flush comes in. So ya that's what we're repping. Full pot seems good enough to me -- half the risk and calling frequency doesn't go down by that much.

@JohnSmith-nx7zj

Жыл бұрын

Yeah 44 and 88: 1. unblock Jx hands 2. don’t want to let naked Jh hands draw for free 3. can still boat up vs flushes So I think they often still bet the turn. Then again there’s only 4 combos of 44/88 by the river.

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

If you must shock and awe, but 120% pot, why risk the rest?

i’d probably be more inclined to fold vs a rec just bc opening J8o, over valuing top 2 when the flush completes, and then jamming when you make a boat is totally something they’re definitely “capable” of. Same with any sets that turn into boats when the board pairs. And same with nut flushes although with the K of hearts I’m not going to live in fear of the nut flush _too_ much here. (assuming the stakes were lower and this was a $130 pot and not a $13,000 pot lmao) shipping in 550BB with a blocker to the nut flush on a paired board isn’t really something I’d give a rec a lot of credit for unless I already pegged them as a maniac.

Super interesting hand! Thanks

Betting double the pot for about a 50% chance of a fold, is long-term negative ev.

Joe Hachem is a beast. Loved to watch him play cash games

The only combo i can find which is close to AhJx in terms of sensible bluffs in this line would be AhTx. If hero has 6 bluff combos with AhJx too, And villain needs to win 40% of the time against our sizing, he need to find fewer than 9 value combos for hero to be over bluffing and make bluff catching +ev. Blocking the Kh and Th is very relevant to some of the nut flushes in heroes range, leaving only AQs and AJs and maybe some A5s (although its hard to imagine finding a bet with that hand on that flop imo). Like bart says it is hard to imagine JJ barrelling this turn card, so maybe we split the difference by only giving hero JhJx, so 2 combos. Villain blocks the JTs combo draw which might take this line on the turn. Hero's two pair combos also check back turn at high frequency, since its hard to imagine denying much equity (maybe getting a fold from KhJx or AhJx?). So i count like 4 value combos, assuming hero gets here with nut flushes (which i guess we're assuming since we're constructing his bluffing range with the nut flush blocker), which makes it a +ev call for villain even when the hero is not calling turn with AhTx or bluffing the river with that combo. This makes me think Joe thinks that the nut flush call bet line is so much higher frequency than the nut blocker call bet line that he can overfold. Either that or there was a reverse tell, or joe just made a mistake in the moment.

Turning this hand into a bluff tells me this guy likes to bluff on the river

20:00 only question now is what is the best bluff sizing?

You were probably thinking about Paul Wasicka. That was the Jaime Gold year, 2006.

I actually believe this was beautifully played. Hero small bets flop, under size Turn bet (repping 8 9, hitting 2pair but wary of the ❤ flush) calls the 3x bet by Hachem. And then the paired 8, Hero Jamz. PERFECT! If I was Hachem I would have probably folded. The betting sizes, which actually was the Heros weakness and mistake, ended up telling a perfect story. 😂 Crazy. *Side note: Interested in real time what Hero does if the board doesn't pair on the river. Because shoving at that point and I guarantee Hachem calls

@HPxG323

8 ай бұрын

But if you're repping nut flush there (which is the only hand he can rep), it makes no sense to push stack in. Would he seriously put that huge river bet with the nut flush when board pairs? What is he looking to get called by when he bets so big with the nut flush? As we saw even king high flush (one of the only hands you can get value from) will fold there. The line and the hand makes absolutely no sense.

What should have Joe Hachem done? Would love to know your opinion Bart. Should he have called the river?

I love the point of the inconsistent story being told. There's no hand that plays turn as a bet/call when checked to that wants to 2x pot jam the river when it pairs. I would buy 99 doing this over any other possible combo because of the deception/excitement with a turned set when you cbet the flop making you want to bet, but even that is a stretch because it fills all the straight draws you unblock and it flushes.

@461oceanboulevard

Жыл бұрын

44 88

@pot_kivach160

Жыл бұрын

I have strong feeling you have a good idea. But that's all I can comprehend from a crooked English writing. If you rephrase, pls, I'd be happy to get what you mean. Thx.

I think he played it perfectly. With the cards he’s holding he blocks all better hands Well done

@ticenits1926

Жыл бұрын

He was up against a flush, this is precisely why you don’t want to be blocking those kind of hands because it means your opponent only continues when he really has something good. You want to unblock those hands that way it gives your opponent an opportunity to Bluff if he actually has one of those cards

@Gos1234567

Жыл бұрын

No!This is just the simplistic way of using blocker theory,holding the Ah here means you block the bluffs that Joe could have so the turn call is bad.The river all in is bad as you only rep JJ or an ace-hi flush,but i suppose Joe thought a draw wouldnt be calling the turn so it kinda worked out by accident

I like the play, especially if he 2x jams the nut flush. What boats does Hachem ever have that raise the turn? He doesn’t. The J is almost irrelevant as a blocker, because he’s not raising JJ on the turn… I guess Hachem would prioritize bluffcatchers with the J of hearts in them, but he doesn’t show up with many offsuit ones. The A of hearts blocker is the nut bluff card here, and AJ is one of the few Ahx combos he gets here with.

Jam the river. Then when he’s thinking about it offer to let him pick a card to show him…

Paused at 13:32 if it's against Hash you are definitely behind here. Also, he is capable of laying it down against a 25% bet if you make your flush. Ordinrily, I channel my inner punting degen here, but against Joe, I am not so sure.

Nice hand history vs Hachem. I am thinking even though the line doesn't make sense in theory. The logic to Hachem's fold is a rec player 95% of the time isn't 2x pot bluffing. They would put some kind of live tell or be too nervous to pull it off especially vs the champ. He just didn't see you nervous which was very good on your part to remain calm at the time. Hachem plays these games all the time vs recs and in this spot they usually just have it. Kudos to getting it through but now that he knows you can pull this maneuver off. So be careful out there lol.

What a call . Nice hand but ffs what a way to to just drop in the fact that villain is a wsop main event winner 🏆

so with the button game the 50 bucks accumulates until the small blind wins a pot, did i hear that right?

@ikickpuppies01

Жыл бұрын

I think others call this game, small blind jackpot. Yep, like you said only SB can get the $ on the puck

maybe you're thinking of paul wasicka, runner up to jamie gold 2006. (binger got 3rd)

@CrushlivePoker

Жыл бұрын

That is indeed who Iw as thinking of thanks!

Caller must have had a very tight table image. I would assume that a top pro like that would have a lot of hero calls, and as Bart said- i’m not expecting sets to bet the turn. then again, I’m not expecting any flushes to do 2x pot river. that leaves my opponent with bluffs that include the ace of hearts and a nine and 10 Jack or maybe a queen, and may be only a few of value combos like 88…

@JohnSmith-nx7zj

Жыл бұрын

44 makes sense to bet the turn right? It unblocks Jx and even vs flushes or straights it has a chance to boat up. And 44 definitely doesn’t want to let JhX hands see a free river.

@kineahora8736

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnSmith-nx7zj 44 and 88 don’t really like the turn, but they at least both unblock jacks… anyway if you only have 4 value combos you don’t need that many bluffs, like maybe 3. Ah-Jack and Ah-ten should be available…

@Gos1234567

Жыл бұрын

or he might have a fishy image that overplays 2 pairs and doesnt like to fold,cos for Joe to fold to a tight player he has to put him on a narrow range.A tight player wouldnt bet the flush turn with a set or call the CR with a flush draw,so if tight Joe must beleive he has specifically the ace flush which seems wrong to just put him on one hand

@pot_kivach160

Жыл бұрын

@@Gos1234567 I agreed about fishy profile, however, betting front door turn flush with 2 pairs I do not see as overplay. Simply, if you're scared of any front door hits a turn, then you're pushover. . Betting turn with 2 pairs, H might target a top pair (QJ, KJ) , or weaker 2 pairs. However, calling turn x/raise with a top pair on a VERY dynamic board - is fishy. Moreover, jamming river 2x against turn aggressor, is a fish out of water: desperate. 😂

it's a great play if the other player is somewhat tight, otherwise a big punt for the reward.

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

Hash is pretty tight.

This caller punked Joe Hachem.👏👏👏👏

You either 3bet jam on the turn to cash in your equity if you are called and semi-bluff that you have the nut flush. or you fold there if you think he won't fold a flush on the turn. I don't think I would ever just flat call the turn here. Then again I don't play poker with Joe Hachem, so what do I know?

Great bluff!

Surely villain does bet boats on the river as he wants (Nut) flushes to call him so if he has 8-9 or J8 then he is going lead the river? A lot of players wouldn’t find the bluff the hero did here and would probably check back worse flush combos eg QJh which might still feel forced to call to a villain river bet.

I play those kinds of games where when top top inst good and I know it the last thing I want to consider as a bluff 95% of the time 😂

A nut flush would have reraised on the turn to keep two pairs and sets from boating up.

literally every decision feels insanely difficult on this one lol

@JohnSmith-nx7zj

Жыл бұрын

I’d say preflop was pretty easy. And the flop tbh.

@420villain

Жыл бұрын

Think turn is ez check too

@Gos1234567

Жыл бұрын

No,pre easy,flop easy,turn is check back,it went wonky cos he played it wonky

I would have checked river and lost the pot 😢

Bart ain’t got NO time for Goodbye’s🤣

Hard spot for sure

I hate any bluffing game. 7/2 or lately the Robbie (especially on stream). It changes their bluffing frequency and there are players that will bluff at a 10k pot to win 100 a person and bragging rights that they bluffed you. It Never made sense to me. BTW, Joe Hachem is a good guy. I’ve played with him several times in tournaments and cash. Always a gentleman.

Looking to learn- Why bet $205 on the flop instead of just $200? Is there a strategy to avoiding round numbers?

@AT-bw4cm

Жыл бұрын

🤣. You have a good attention to detail. I always try to bet round numbers and use the biggest denomination chips possible. It speeds up the game. Maybe 20 red chips look more intimidating than one black chip to some people.

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

Yes, 99% of ppl avoid round numbers, so true.

I mean he bet top pair on the turn so seems like he’d bet a set again

I would have like to see hero 3-bet the turn to $3800-$4000.

@christopherdowning7776

Жыл бұрын

Because, no way Hachem has flush here.

@Jermo484

Жыл бұрын

@@christopherdowning7776 Why is there no way Hachem has flush here? The straddle has all sorts of suited hands and would play them exactly that way often up to that point.

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

Then you get jammed on, hash may fold to 9k on a board pair river with 2nd NF but the chips are going in if hero raises the turn. No doubt.

@pot_kivach160

Жыл бұрын

@@christopherdowning7776 😂🤣

If you’re covering a hand using a non USD currency you should tell the viewers roughly what the exchange rate is/what the equivalent game would be.

Thank you Bart

let the beard grow, bart!

I think if you're putting your opponent on a smaller flush you would bet that size on the river.

Knew he had a flush or straight at turn.

He's Australian he would bet a set of jacks and the flush on the turn.

it depends on the game flow and your gen play. check and see the river. you can beat most hads that called, you can be behindboth player, straight may just check and all lin.

That's why I like 7-2; because I am crappy. So, bring on the randomness!

If he was leaning towards a call you could sell him a card, either card will help your cause greatly.

This one made me feel strange. I'm surprised Joe folded here. I don't think it's a great fold.

Wow! That was ballsy but it got through.

Why would you not ship the nut flush if you don’t think your opponent has any boats? Made this comment before I heard the end.

hmm i feel like i know the caller voice, i feel like he works entertainment industry.

@ryurazu

Жыл бұрын

woo, Toorak Rd, where the multimillionaires live.

Three bet jam the turn.

With the A of hearts I would have reraised to 5k on the turn.

Love IT

Continue betting on turn with plans to rep nut if needed. Turn it into a bluff. Min raise the turn check-raise. Jam on river. Don't like the call on the turn with overjam on river. Makes more sense to just play passive otherwise.

@jeremymorley5670

Жыл бұрын

This is not good advice lol

@DescartesRenegade

Жыл бұрын

@@jeremymorley5670 why? He can rep nut flush on the turn

Steve Dannenma

Steve danneman?

Rip it in and flash the ace.

I think i am quitting poker. Ive had a terrible run of bad beats that at first i took well, its part of the game but at this point its gotten ridiculous. First bad beat, i flopped nut flush, villian had trip 10s, i shoved and the board paired on the river. No big deal it happens Second hand, i have ak of diamonds, raised pre flop got one caller, flop came 2 diamonds and an ace, i shoved hoping he had aq aj ect, he called, turn came another ace, river came a diamond....the q of diamonds.. Okay that sucked but oh well right. Third hand, i have a10, flop comes a 8 10, i check he raises, i call, turn comes a blank, he bets i call, river comes another 10, he bets big i shove, he shows pocket aces. Should hsve seen that coming oh well. Tournament ace queen vs aj, got all in preflop, he flops a j, and rivers antoher j, what the odds, this is getting annoying. Anytime ive got a hand villian has one as well and always sucks out What broke it all for me was last night i have aj of diamonds, flop comes 789 one diamond on board, i bet 20, villian raises 55 i only had like 60 behind so i shoved, he shows j6 off, turn is a blank, river, yeah you guessed it a 6. Doesnt make sense why i am always losijg in spots that i shouldn't.

You got lucky Hachem is Nittucci's granddad. Against a normal player, check back turn. No worse hand is calling you when you bet the turn and you stand to get checkraised since two players called your flop bet and you have to put at least one of them on a flush draw, especially since you block other top pairs. River you turned your hand into a bluff representing a full house, and it worked against Hachem who overfolds as we all know from old high stakes poker videos, but against a regular player this is not a good strategy. Also for the board runout, you are not convincing a good player you either have a nut flush (which will not overbet a paired river or fail to 3-bet turn) or a set turned into a full house (which should not have bet the turn when flush completed). Few pros rate Hachem as a good player, as we all know he is a one-hit wonder from the pre-GTO era. By modern standards, he would be considered a fish - as illustrated by his single pulse career graph

Amateurs tend to take their A blocker and stop thinking about anything else lol, blocking the nut flush doesn't mean they will fold any other flushes 😅 I always think about what's the worst case scenario after I bet.. and them raising their flushes is a disaster I feel.. So I'd check back a lot there

@Gos1234567

Жыл бұрын

Yea seeing a lot of this in callins,ive the A-flush blocker i block his value,yay i can bluff like crazy.But also you block the main bluffs. kinda shocked Joe folded though,putting V on a v narrow range

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE !

Perfect bluffing spot if there ever was one. He loses to everything. Of course he folds.

Upfront should give Aussie/US dollar rate just to give us some context.

@CrushlivePoker

Жыл бұрын

It's not that much of a difference

@JohnSmith-nx7zj

Жыл бұрын

Was google not working when you made this comment?

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

Hey Siri, what's US/AU exchange rate? Hey Siri, how lazy are most people?

How did i know Joe Hachem was the champ in question before I clicked lol.

@runitonce7791

4 ай бұрын

You didn't

PASS THE SUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that really counterfeiting? I feel like a 9 would counterfeit J8, but maybe I'm wrong about the terminology. It certainly downgrades J9 because now J9 loses to AA, KK, QQ and any 8, but I don't think that's really counterfeiting. And yeah, I agree, the bet sizing on the river is just never a flush. Why would it be? You're folding out all sorts of worse hands and very rarely getting called by both (just thinking you're bluffing). The fact that Hachem holded the second nut flush is the perfect proof that you wouldn't (or shouldn't) take this line with the nut flush. I'd bet you should simply never have huge bets here on the river. He basically never has a boat, so I'm not even going big with a boat cause I want a flush or trips to make a crying call.

@WillPage

Жыл бұрын

I think he means J9 cant beat overpairs.

Joe’s not as good as I imaged he is.

@pot_kivach160

Жыл бұрын

🤣

if you want to represent the big fluxh , you can now or on river too. but you can loose least. bet big then push the 2 pair out. srureena nd top 2 are not folding or flush. but depending on playeer they can come over top and but if y9ou bet big enough, ( dependding on how you play ) and whatyou are reping. but

Steve Dannenman

i thinkk checking 70% is best

You have to bet the turn for 2 reasons. 1. SB is lighter than normal because the btn game, straddle also wider than normal because sb will be so wide. 2. When you check back turn you leave yourself no option but to get exploited on the river. At the least betting turn checking back brick river you get paid by KJhx/QJhx/JThx. Sometimes you get x/r on turn but that's fine they aren't really bluffing though this turn bet size is kinda weak and could induce bluffs, even so you still have option to peel and bluff all in over river bet. Probably 700 is better. Turn is must bet though, cuz if we chk, every non heart river either player (most likely straddle) can just 1.5x-2x pot river, we are capped and can't do anything about it, turn check just makes our jack meaningless.

lsoll, this guy is a novice. i luv these player, my bank, i may even fold buti will get him soon enough. lol do i decied to call with a 8 is the questions.

yeap these crazy bad payer alwasy is hard , but they alwasy get caught. lol

just giveup unless you are gonna go all in.

you gamble against a pro. lol good think it made no sesnse. and the pro was logical. lol i ve seen these type of plays by loose or new guys many times and i lay down buy i will call them soon enouh and they can resist . to do it again.

jt of heart or j9 give up to a pro. look for better run out. its all luck, your imagination will kill you.