I think every fighting game should have at least one simple, unassuming, "boring" fundamentalist character

@SimoneBellomonte

Жыл бұрын

I’m not a FG expert here, but I believe those simple characters are more dependent on the game’s mechanics themselves rather than the character itself to be enjoyable, if your game’s systems and mechanics are well-done then those characters work really well in highlighting how the game works.

@alexcat6685

Жыл бұрын

​​@@SimoneBellomonte but then they lose everything else if they only have the mechanics, leading to them being not characters just mechanics, Functions you may say. Ryu could still is an intersting character despite his gameplay being Jack of all traits.

@gamekyuubi42069

Жыл бұрын

​@@alexcat6685 Being dependent on them doesn't mean that's all that defines them. Characters can be dependent on the system mechanics in different ways. There's also no realistic way to make a character that is "just" system mechanics because as soon as you add any non-universal move then that wouldn't be a system mechanic. I'd also ask what you think a character is other than functions and mechanics?

@thefgcsensei4482

Жыл бұрын

we need Ryu or Ky in every game

@kalipsy5700

4 ай бұрын

Shotos

The craziest part of this is that your description is exactly how Hibiki exists in the story. He's quiet, observing, and unassuming while actually being a perfectly capable fighter. There are a few other examples like that in Blazblue's straightfoward characters too. Ragna's lifesteal allows him to be aggressive and earn victory by the skin of his teeth, whereas Terumi's meter steal punishes players who hold onto their advantage with a cocky grin that says "too bad you though you were gonna win!" before he chain specials you and ends that with his astral. And I think that's pretty cool!

@muchluck7981

Жыл бұрын

7 months late but just to add. Makoto punch. Makoto punch stronger

@KingOfDarknessAndEvil

Жыл бұрын

​@Much Luck its timed in such a way that just pressing the button really hard almost always gets a 3

@muchluck7981

Жыл бұрын

@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil 3 for most damage. 2/1 for combo extensions

@SimoneBellomonte

Жыл бұрын

Pfp Sauce (Artist)? 🗿 ​@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil

@KingOfDarknessAndEvil

Жыл бұрын

@@SimoneBellomonte Character is Calliope Mori, artist is Ina'nis Ninomae

He also has an Izuna drop. Which is indisputably cool.

Last bit about spectators not seeing players' thought process is exactly why good commentators are a treasure

@DazIsBambo

2 жыл бұрын

Great point! Somehow, commentators completely escaped my mind in the process of writing this video. It's hard stuff to do as a commentator, but when they do it, you're absolutely right.

shout outs to gekko squirrel for mentioning this channel cuz thats how i found you and i like the content. cool stuff dude

@DazIsBambo

2 жыл бұрын

He did? Holy shit, wow! I should thank him

@alexmeza9080

2 жыл бұрын

​@@DazIsBambo I also found you thanks to gekko squirrel.

I think "pure" or non-gimmicky characters are important especially in games like BB and GG. For starters not everyone has fun managing an extra meter or resource. It can be a burden rather than something to make the game more interesting. Having characters that don't need to worry about that is important for people who don't like that sort of thing. Next is play style. Something that can come with specialized characters and gimmicks is feeling locked into a certain playstyle. I know when I play Nu or Noel I feel like I should always be using their Drive because it's a core part of their play style. Characters that lack that specialization often feel like they have more freedom even if the system mechanics make it harder for them over all.

Ok but is he fighting with rulers? That's what it looks like and it's the only thing I can think of him using.

@pieoverlord

Жыл бұрын

He likes to be precise.

@X19Virus

Жыл бұрын

Measure twice, cut once

@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034

Жыл бұрын

He’s using the Attack on Titan swords.

@IronSheepEngine

Жыл бұрын

...And suddenly this Hibiki character just got more interesting. Maybe he's a teacher who watch his kids to learn measurements.

This reminds me of Ike from Smash Bros. He has no unique gimmicks, just a normal guy with a big sword, slow frame data, and high-damage individual attacks. Among a cast of cameo characters with mechanics pulled from their home series, Ike is pretty dull. And he's typically considered low mid tier at best. Because of this, Ike forces you to have good fundamentals to win. I see him like training weights in shonen anime. When a protagonist fails because they're too reliant on their gimmicks, they put on the training weights and immediately become weak. They don't have enough fundamental strength to fight under their new limits. But by mastering the fundamentals, they can learn how to fight effectively even with the weights on. By the time they take them off, they're miles ahead of where they used to be. When I'm feeling like I'm falling behind with Zelda because my fundamentals are rusty, I play a little as Ike. Even for folks who don't main him, switching to an honest fundamentals character for a few games can force you to become a solid player.

@DazIsBambo

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who played Ike for a while in Smash, thanks for the reminder! I fully agree - Ike is pretty dull on the surface but the lessons you're forced to learn with him are actually pretty fun and interesting! The shonen analogy was pretty great too lol

@NashTheChill

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I love this point. He is like so basic but it’s how you play as him that takes him to the next level. It’s crazy because not even Mario falls under that umbrella anymore because he is good but his combo game might carry him in some matchups and he has a more versatile robbery factor in opposed to Ike’s heavyweight robbery factor that is only robbery after a punish

@funnfungusie9622

Жыл бұрын

I thought he was mid to high?

@tumultoustortellini

Жыл бұрын

Saying this from the modern meta, dlc even further established and playing almost exclusively against tournament goers, this is similar to what lucina did for me. It gave me the tools to beat every other character in the game, even if I didn't understand how to apply them immediately. Beating a character like mario requires understanding keep-away while beating sephiroth requires going hyper-aggressive. Sonic requires patience, hero requires spacing, cpt falcon requires understanding burst range, kazuya requires keeping an advantage state but understanding what's needed isn't a clear a problem unless you play someone who is plenty reliant on skill.

@SimoneBellomonte

Жыл бұрын

He’s mid-tier?

Actually, that's the reason as to why I main both Venom in +R and Justice, I love Venom's complexity just as much as Justice's simplicity.

Its good for a game with so many wacky and crazy characters to have at least a couple of simple ones. It lets players who dont wanna play with gimmicks still enjoy the game. Hibiki is to blazblue what Giovanna is to strive, simple no bs rushdown

Now the real question is: Did you astral the Izanami?

Been a Hibiki main since day one of CF, i can attest this man is absolutely on point everywhere in this video

The boring character is very popular, looking at polls.

@DazIsBambo

2 жыл бұрын

Which surprises me, but also kinda doesn't. He's a nice pick up and play character but do people actually care about this dude's design outside of the gameplay lol

That bit about baiting the overdrive out of the opponent was awesome, I can't wait until I reach the point I'm able to plan out my moves like that.

I mean you need these characters in the game. White bread and water sets the standard for all the other foods, yknow?

Nice hard read with the stream clip, the explanation was great, seeing the machinations of someones mind making those types of decisions is really interesting

"not flashy" you WHAT are we seeing the same hibiki? the B combos and most specials feel so good and look interesting

"Unless you like shadow clones, dual wielding, or attack on titan" well i do happen to like all of them but i also tend to like edgy or insane characters and hoodies.... Which is why i played terumi and susanoo in this game

Great video! I think now i understand where was the fun in simple characters and FGs in general, as a newcomer to FGs this video is like unloking a map in elden ring, you dont really know whats in there, but you get an idea of where to look

This is why I main the people I do in Blazblue. Hibiki, Jin, Ragna, Hakumen. Not all of them are a 1:1 (and honestly Ragna is pretty unga bunga) but the majority of them require me to condition, read, and mind game in order to score the W and I like that a lot. Makes you feel good when you win and when you lose you reflect on it and keep running the set till the puzzle pieces fall into place.

WHY DOES THIS SHOW UP THE SECOND I BUY BLAZBLUE CENTRALFICTION WHAT THE FUCK

For me, the challenge, the heat of battle, the fact anyone can win with any character vs any character, it is fair fight it is about skill and knowledge while having cool characters and flashy strikes. I don't love just to win, I love to earn my victories, I love to watch good players and see a variety of characters and strategies, I love to know the differences between characters and games and their uniqueness. I am trying to play BlazBlue but I have not gotten invested in any character yet, everyone is so cool but nothing has clicked for me...

Surprised it took this long for this to hit my recommended as a Hibiki main lol. I love all the points being made. One thing I want to add that I always think about when it comes to Hibiki is that I really love that his kit seems to be built in a way that is simple on offense, but is REALLY good at dealing with the more complex characters. A good 75% of the matchups that he has end up feeling like you're facing a Megaman X boss with a complicated pattern, yet even with your relatively simple kit, you have exactly the right tools to make it look easy. His movement is extremely flexible in a way that can make you feel ridiculously cool for weaving in and out of all the nonsense. For a rushdown character, he has a surprising amount of tools for dealing with zoning on top of his movement, including two supers that can make any character guess twice before hitting any button if you have the meter for it. Design wise, he feels like he has everything he needs, which is really impressive considering what they had to build around.

You played against Redbar? Nice. And you are correct: Hibiki is a good boi who is fun to use and engaging to play (Also his DP is great against Ribcage, which good for him).

Goated video king. Keep up the great work 🙏🙏

he has an izuna drop is that not enough

This is exactly why I love Hibiki! I love characters that push me to think harder about my matches, and it makes it so satisfying when i can successfully get my 50/50s off and tear into the opponent cause my moment to moment decision making paid off. A similar character I really adore is Linne is Under Night, despite being relatively average compared to some fighters he moveset flows together incredibly well and gives me a lot of freedom in decision making

great video the thumbnail made me think it'd be about visual designs though

There are no boring characters imo. The boring part comes from the players.

Found this channel because of your zoners are cool vid, realized it was real good stuff, looked into the channel and realized it was all content like it. EZ subscribe

@DazIsBambo

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!!

This is almost exactly why I play the characters I play. Used to play pit, now play marcina, maybe soon to learn byleth. I need to use enough of my brain to develop my understanding of the systems but not too much so that it becomes about the character and not the opponent. Simple to learn, hard to master characters just happen to be boring to others, but it's not that it's boring, its interesting for all the reasons you describe, the character is a conduit for utilizing game theory in the context of the mechanics of the game. Just as sol or roy are conduits for utilizing dmg output in the context of the mechanics of both of their games. It's the same thing, just more complex and abstract in practice.

i like hibiki because he looks gay

Mad grumpy i missed a Daz upload, that simply won't do.

I think simple characters are actually really fun to watch. Whenever I see ryu, I’m much more hyped than when I see cammie or something because simple characters really let the player show their expression by giving them a balanced move set that someone has to be creative with in order to advance to a win condition.

10:23 Actually one can argue Ragna can have that role too

Very good video! Keep it up man👍

I feel like he's saying like with zoners it's the thought that counts

With the Ky example, it made me think if Hibiki is a character which will teach newcomers the fundamentals of Blazblue? What characters would you recommend who would teach newcomers the system mechanics of Blazblue, kinda like Ryu in Street Fighter, Ky in Guilty Gear. Also, could you suggest characters for the following franchises to learn game fundamentals:- UNICLR, UMVC3, Tekken, SoulCalibur, KI, MBTL, ...

What characters in strive do you think has more interesting decisions

I really hope that I can get to that point in traditional fighting games where I'm able to understand stuff out like this in the moment. I probably won't, I have played Smash for over 20 years now and I never made that jump that separates good players from players like me. I'm just starting with FGs and I feel like there is sooooo much to learn. I just want to get to a point where I can enjoy playing online, or appreciate watching high level matches, but it just goes way over my head. Everybody is just so good that it's hard to even catch my breath in a match, especially in BB haha.

I only play Kokonoe in BBCF, and I barely know the other characters, but you got me with Shadow-clones NGL

I dunno, if GG, didn't have Ky or Sol, I'd never be interested in a game that bounces around character concepts that are childish, over designed, just flat unappealing to look at or over complicated. It needs it's palate cleansers.

@remicou8420

Жыл бұрын

it's like a control group in a scientific study. you need them as a point of reference for what "normal" means in this context

Never once thought this character was boring.

This video is indirectly speaks to why I think GGST is such a good game.

Hibiki’s been my main for a couple years. Played Relius for a couple years then went to Hibiki and don’t regret it

As a Hibiki player I actually disagree with the people saying he's boring. He's fun, creative, and oddly appealing to the average weeb like me.

Have a wonderful day too👍

Gekkosquirrel brought me 😂🤷‍♂️✌️

5:32 I liked that... Does that Blue Lock I keep getting in my recommendation has anything similar?

i never thought of hibiki as boring from the get-go. is it popular to think that he is?

How did I find this channel? You see in a year or so you make a video on landing a hit in fgc vs smash. It later gets shared in a discord channel and found a variable of things in common.

Smash ultimate dark pit player here, I feel seen in this video

When I first got Central Fiction, I was strongly considering making Hibiki my main at one point because I thought he had an interesting moveset and I was thinking of switching from Lambda at the time, then I downloaded Es and her moveset just clicked. And that's how Es became my secondary character.

@HabitualThinker

Жыл бұрын

so who is your main?

@PokemonRules141

Жыл бұрын

@@HabitualThinker It’s still Lambda at this time. Though Kagura and Jin are looking interesting lately.

I think a really good example is a character like Lee from tekken. Personality wise he is cool but doesn't any moves thst really shine until counter hit

Kokonoe doesn’t use magic? As much as her kit tries desperately to say she does, nope, it’s all tech The IK doesn't count, It'll never hit anyway

I play arakune I don’t think about them getting opened up I just know they will

Hibiki is sick af yall trippin

I play fighting games because i like the characters or gameplay alot if times i have fun losing too

Hibiki is fucking SICK dude

ngl from the perspective of someone who doesn't play Blazblue, Hibiki just sounds like a bad low tier who has to avoid getting his ass kicked by system mechanics at all costs, in a world where everyone else can do their thing relatively unhindered

Okay but you can do all that fundis opening pressure stuff with Makoto and have a character with much more satisfying combo paths too.

The only fighting game characters that are boring are those that are wildly overpowered characters that take no thought to use, clones of other characters with zero changes (even then at least you get to choose two perfectly valid options), and characters that are so underpowered that you literally can't win with them no matter what. Even characters with bland character designs and no personality or gimmicks can be interesting

X3 he do be kinda a rare pick. Tho I play on ps so everyones a rare pick XD

Celica is among one of the most boring playstyle characters in BB

See I love basic dudes who can do interesting things with said simple tools without being a gimmicky or linear like Ryu and Sagat Sagat is far more interesting despite being a generally less versatile Ryu he has a DP and fireball but Ryu has hands and a way to dodge the fireballs while Sagat has range and the funny button.

KOKONOE MENTIONED!!!

Two words: izuna drop

I am not a fan of the Beef and Tomato PotNoodle

Ho's they? its 1 vs 1 xD

i just like him because he's easy to play

I think you made the wrong character, instead of putting Hibiki I think you tried to put Kagurazzz Mutzzzki, the monotony of the dp and never get out of it, bored of using it as a face against him.

"fighting games arent exactly chess" See now it depends on what fighting game it is, because some are absolutely CHESS with the added requirement of having execution(not to be confused with difficult combos, executing anything in general).

@oyoyoyo7624

9 ай бұрын

Which fighting games are like chess?

His color palettes kinda suck. Actually a lot of BB characters color palettes can be _meh_

1:11 "Why do you play fighing games" I prefer airdashers over purely footsie based ones, since the extra movement gives you more ways to approach the opponent during offense and neutral. Additionally, the number one thing I also value in the fighting game is unique characters that set them selves apart from each other, whether that be in terms of movement speed, defense, and ESPECIALLY game plan and unique system mechanics ONLY available to that character. It's one of the main reasons that I didn't like DragonBallFighterZ, since when that game launched the game felt very homongenized, and in that way didn't feel like an Arc System works Title at all, especially when you compare DBFZ to Arc System Work's earlier titles like GGXRD and BBCF where the characters were JUST AS complicated as the universal system mechanics themselves. And it's not just a problem I have with Arc either, since even more newer titles from other developers suffer from this issue I have with Homogenization, with games like the new Melty Blood, and even Tekken 7 suffering from this exact same problem( infamous FGC Content creator Aris himself admits that Tekken 7 is homongenized). With games like BBCF, GGAC+R, and SC6 being among my favorites. That being said, my favorite fighting game is "BlazBlue Central Fiction", since that game is arguably just as complex as "Guilty Gear XRD Revelator," with the game like Revelator having legacy skill, meaning if you haven't stuck with the game since the original back in 2008 you have a MASSIVE hill to climb in learning frame data for each character's normals, gatlings, and overall mobility options that can be used on offense and neutral. Then there are the game's plentiful system mechanics, such as having a half a dozen options on defense that you need to master such as having four ways to block based on specific scenarios for example, and the game having a multitude of wake up options with each having a specific use, and that's not even going into the Drive mechanic, which is a unique action for each character, which there are OVER 35 of, which MOST of the cast plays VASTLY DIFFERENT from each other. Mainline BlazBlue games were HUGE in japan, with it being popular in many Japanese arcades, and as Obama stated in a podcast with Blasted Salami that the series had at one point been up there even with the almighty Tekken in terms of popularity. With many veterans like Dogura ( who is one of the best players in Guilty Gear who uses Slayer) and Fenrich ( who is arguably the best BB player, and currently one the best in DBFZ) representing the series for a long time . Sadly, The series just never took off over here in the west. However, the lack of popularity nationwide doesn't equate to the game's quality.The fact that is arguably the most unique AND complex 2D fighter on the market, but isn't talked about hardly at all in the west was always baffling to me. Especially when I read comments, and watch videos of people in the FGC complaining about how boring fighting games have gotten recently, or how easy it has become and yet will REFUSE to give the game a try. Thankfully, that seems to be changing, for instance Lord Knight, a tournament player who plays a variety of different fighting games recently made a fighting game tier list and put "BlazBlue Central Fiction" near the top, as well as popular Guilty Gear content creators like Obama saying on blasted salami's podcast that "BlazBlue Central Fiction" is arguably just as hard as Guilty Gear Xrd. For those who want to see high level game play in order to get a grasp of how hype this game can potentially be for you, I'd recommend a video titled "BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma Grand Finals - Evo 2014" on youtube, and while the game represented there is not Central Fiction, I think it works, since Central Fiction is more of an evolution of Chrono Phantasma any way. Other channel's include "Burst Recap" and "Jourdal" for more high level Japanese play. The game is also relatively balanced since MANY pro players think over 80% of the cast is at least tournament viable, with a few outliers being Izanami( who is border line broken, and Noel who is super weak). Overall, a fantastic video, since I was among those that had put Hibiki in the same category as Ragna, and Celica as among the boring characters, but when thinking about it, the creator of the video makes valid points, since their heavier reliance on the system mechanics makes them unique in their own right. Great video, and one that gets a like from me!

Ky is not a simple character he’s a simpleton character

Funny and long winded way of saying "his kit looks the fucking coolest". A lot of good points.. but how you gonna say Anyone is boring when ragna and jin are Right there and they were Engineered to be boring and generic?

when i played this i mained nu13. because she cool af.

This just a hibiki player making an entire pretentious video essay to say they outplayed you when all they did was knowledge check you with clones for the entire game 😂

He's boring compared to all the others

@puppetmaskerr

9 ай бұрын

How alive is bbcf eu servers steam?

@T_Jester

9 ай бұрын

You cant really get a specific region, you just have to handle the ping because there aren't that many players

@puppetmaskerr

9 ай бұрын

@@T_Jester usually how many would be there in the servers at a given time?

@T_Jester

9 ай бұрын

I dont know, but It's best to play with friends or with other beginners in discord servers

this is pure cope

Clicked the video because the title caught my eye as a permanent Ky main in every GG I've ever played, so I'm glad he got a mention. Honestly, the reason I picked Ky in the first place was just cowardice. I was intimidated by all the complex characters so I decided "I'll just learn the basics with this simple twink and then maybe pick up a spicier character later". It's now years later and I've never picked up another character (except for dabbling in Strive Bridget cos I've got to rep my girl 🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧). Personally, the thing that's most fun in a bonkers, over-the-top game like Guilty Gear with all its wildly different characters is approaching that weirdness from the "outside" so to speak. When I'm playing Ky I'm more or less playing a fighting game with no frills, my gameplan is very basic fighting game stuff, I don't have any tools that radically recontextualise how one approaches fighting games. All this means that it matters so much more to learn *everyone else's* silly bullshit. Obviously match-up knowledge is important for every character, but I feel like you approach it differently as a fundamentals-based character; it's less of a question of "how do I fit this character into *my* gameplan?" and more a question of "how do I find the opening in *their* gameplan?" Simple characters like Ky are like a fluid, changing shape to match their container, and figuring out a match-up is the process of figuring out what shape of container you're morphing yourself to.