--------Elac Unifi 2.0 amzn.to/3aZQnwo =======Elac Unifi 2.0 Tower amzn.to/3m1qJ0d #########Klipsch RP600M amzn.to/3vzlkAG ***************Klipsch RP6000F amzn.to/3nfIOqU ++++++++++++++++Amazon Music and Disney Plus Free Trial amzn.to/3DRAVj9 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^www.patreon.com/cheapaudioman

@randalllawkin

2 жыл бұрын

Will you check out the HECO 700 aurora speakers?

@cheapaudioman

2 жыл бұрын

@Fisher Man ha. Yeah

@mikebalhorn

2 жыл бұрын

@cheapaudioman, can I get over the build quality of the Unifi 2.0 towers for $450 or hold out for the DFR52?

@mathiftw

2 жыл бұрын

I think you are right on most of your points and I mostly agree, although I think you missed some things (especially my point #1). Watched a review some time ago (don't remember who did it) that was talking about the "fake" duality between bookshelves and tower speaker: 1) You can also have a sub with tower speaker if you like. That may need a bit harder to place correctly, but it is doable. That way you can extend the lower bass that your not-full-range tower speaker might not have, while also having the spatial caracteristic of multiple drivers. If you mentionned it in your review, sorry if I missed it ! Did you experiment towers+sub ? If you have any thoughts I am curious ! 2) If you want more sound signature, and it is what I actually do, you can get tower speakers on A and bookshelves on B, why would you have to chose only bookshelves ? Some songs, I prefer them on my tower speaker, others when I like more clarity in the voice (piano/vocal only for example), I prefer my bookshelves. That said, you need to have the space and make an argument to have 2 permanent setup (and maybe even 2 amp).

@thecatjinx

2 жыл бұрын

Here I was hoping your sponsor was Weyland looking to get volunteers to help out with the face hugger test subjects.

I ran down to the kitchen to get a cup of coffee and my wife said are you listening to that audio guy again.

@RP-ms7lu

10 ай бұрын

😀😀😀

@Jethr001

5 ай бұрын

yep and he wants you to buy a new pair of speakers!!

@bottomendbliss

4 ай бұрын

@@Jethr001 Yes and he said small penis's....i mean small speakers are better than large ones.

@carlitot5388

Ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂

If you have the space, towers make absolute sense. Why would I put bookshelf speakers in a 25 x 50' room? And there are plenty of great tower speakers that hit to 25hz. Cheap isn't always better. Its all about your wallet, room size, equipment, etc.

@stopthefomo

2 жыл бұрын

For the same price, bookshelf version plus subwoofer fills your room as well but with deeper and more even bass at your listening position.

@Audiomainia2310

2 жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake Randy wanted to make a point where none was needed. Anyone can toss an inexpensive sub into their systems if the dimensions of the room warrant it. And quality bookshelf speakers like the KEF LS50 Metas start at $1500.00. Or DyneAudio has a set that start at $6000.00. Some cheap speakers are impressive - nut many. You always get in quality and performance what you're wallet ( or wife ) allows.

@Audiomainia2310

2 жыл бұрын

@@stopthefomo That again is dependent on your room dimensions. Its very simple. Would I placed tower speakers in a 10 x 10' room? Of course not. But my listening area is 25 x 25' - very few bookshelf speakers could handle the acoustics efficiently and I would need an 9.2 configuration at minimum to make up the difference that a bi-polar tower with a built in 12" 200 watt woofer can do ( DT B2002 ) .

@kyron42

2 жыл бұрын

What about value? What are the best $3000 Tower speakers. For $3,000 what's the best bookshelf speakers + stands + subwoofer + subwoofer cable if you think cable makes a difference.

@Audiomainia2310

2 жыл бұрын

@@kyron42 Value in my opinion is completely subjective. What can your wallet afford? Have less expansive speakers impressed you with their sound quality and appearance more than an expensive set you were considering? Its all on you sir.

Really great set of reasons to go for bookshelf speakers, Randy. Must sell my towers immediately. Just kidding, tried loads of bookshelf speakers and I’m never selling my towers unless it’s for better towers. 😄

@Chiroman527

2 жыл бұрын

Mark... I have KEF 104/ 2 Towers in My LR since 1987, when I acquired them. No Equalizers, no SWs... They sound great to this day. I also have 4 pairs of Bookshelf speakers in my Finished basement "studio" (Kinda), created during 2020 Chinese Virus Hibernation, to play Music for enjoyment during work - at- home AND to play my Drums ( a rejuvenated interest into playing Drums after a 50 Year Hiatus). Now I'm retired (May 2021), and have a setup which incorporates 2 Receiver / Amps connected to as follows: IOTA PA3 & SA3 & an Emotiva A300 connected to 2 Pairs of Elacs (Reference and Debuts, both 6.2) in the front part of the room & a Denon DRA-800H Receiver connected to 1 pair of KEF Q350 & a pair of Fluance Signature Series HiFi Bookshelf speakers in the rear - that's where the Drum kit is located. When played in Unison - both the systems - the sound is like a concert hall . This setup is totally Anti-Audiophile , playing different speakers simultaneously. I am unable to "test" this against the KEFs in the LR , bc I'm not Hauling the KEFs to the basement for a comparison. But I can say, that sitting back in the LR, playing My Music (CD or Vinyl) on those KEF 104s is still a great delight. Maybe, If I am able to move those suckers, I will do the Sound Test or maybe move the basement speakers upstairs ???

@markcarrington8565

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chiroman527 , that sounds like a lot of fun! My study system has been stripped back to Sansui SR222 MkII turntable, Zen Phono on the analogue side with ZenDAC Signature for digital via Tidal. Both feed a just completed upgraded NAD 314 and Monitor Audio Bronze 2 bookshelf(!) speakers. Sounds great but not s patch on my LR system with 150wpc Musical Fidelity amp and MA GR20 towers. Oh, there’s also a pair of Sundaras fed by the Zen CAN Signature. Enjoy it any way you like I say!

@Canadian_Eh_I

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chiroman527 On my 3rd pair of Kef's right now. Scored a used pair of 201/2 bookshelves. Amazing speakers even compared to whats out there to this day.

@Canadian_Eh_I

2 жыл бұрын

@@Chiroman527 BTW you're probably due to change out the caps

@Audfile

2 жыл бұрын

Whats a bookshelf really? Same height as a tower, half the drivers.

Dude, saying bookshelves are "wayyyyy better" is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Bookshelves on a stand usually take up the same space as towers. You can adjust the bass on the amp if it's too much.

@cheapaudioman

2 жыл бұрын

Very much a stretch. Lol. I use these absurd titles so people will watch what this idiot has to say. Of course there’re not Way better. I’m actually thinking of doing a why tower speakers are Way better than bookshelf speakers

@cosdeep9934

2 жыл бұрын

@@cheapaudioman Several tower speakers i've heard have more clarity than the bookshelf counterpart of the same series. They deal with floor bounce issues, etc better, have the same footprint and they integrate easier with subwoofers.

@DenisHavlikVienna

2 жыл бұрын

@@cheapaudioman I appreciate your sense of humour. Bookshelf speakers obviously aren't way better than towers, but a good pair of bookshelf speakers can sound better than a crappy pair of tower speakers and they indeed don't need the same amount of place. One important point for your future "why tower speakers are way better" feature: you can easily move them away from the wall. Sure, you can move bookshelf speakers away from the wall, but bookshelves tend to be at the wall and mounting these speakers on a special stander basically turns them in (probably inferior) tower speakers.

@zepdog4595

2 жыл бұрын

@@cheapaudioman oh, ok, so it's Clickbait!?

@emotionalintelligence776

Жыл бұрын

@@DenisHavlikVienna It's depending on your application. If you have room for towers and a sub then sure you'd choose a good set of towers. But most people don't have money or space for a full 12ch system in their bedroom or office. While you may want bass in your face there's not much bass if you're listening to opera, see the difference actually that should be hear, Lol.

Agree wholeheartedly with Randy here. I run bookshelves with subs & couldn’t agree more on the flexibility of fine tuning the bass to match programme material or room acoustics. Get a good sub to complement the main spks & dialing in the subs will be alot easier. I feel that a pair of bookshelves with sub or subs can rival floorstanders in terms of scale & bass. The bookshelves nowadays sound very large & enveloping & adding a sub or subs makes for almost full range sound.

What I Love about bookshelf speakers, is that I can move them anywhere. If I want to show some family members some speakers they might like, I can just grab the Loxjie A30 and the speakers. Three easy things to move around anywhere I please.

Here are my reasons: #1) ability to separate bass speakers from the mid and tweeter, this allows for bass speaker placement to attain flat response at the listener position, this procedure is best pursued with some type of measurement equipment (REW on a laptop, two channel mic preamp and flat measurement microphone, but I use a 31 band RTA), #2) independent placement of the mid and tweeter from those now correctly placed bass speakers to attain proper soundstage imaging, very important part of the listening experience (both of these are best attained with a sufficiently large room of near ideal dimensions and symmetrical (right-left) spacing of the room forward of the listening position), #3) ability to utilize large bass speakers (10" or 12") compared to a tower speaker, #4) less reflective surface area as the satellite (bookshelf) speakers will sit on stands with their vertical support boards parallel to the side walls, #5) ability to independently set the proper height of the satellite speakers so that the center of the tweeter is at ear height when sitting in the listening chair.

@davidlewis8124

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed I Concur 🤗✌️

@ulissepellegrino7175

Жыл бұрын

I have five svs prime satellites with one svs sb2000 pro sub and they are a beast. Soon I'll add another sub.

Definitely better if you believe in bass management below 80Hz because smooth bass response requires decoupling the bass from the speakers (using subs) which relegates the towers to act as large bookshelves

@edwardbalboa5528

2 жыл бұрын

??? The bass on floor standers is in its own enclosure ...so it's like a sub

@dfalekulo9138

2 жыл бұрын

@@edwardbalboa5528 bass radiates everywhere but you want to be able to control that or the bass of the room becomes uneven at the main listening position. When you use bass management it basically relegated the towers to a bookshelf as the cabinet bass use is then defunct....but the bass would be better managed.

Over 21 years I've moved backwards; from floor standers to bookshelfs(?) to full range drivers. Full range is a TRUE point source and you can add a sub or two if you're that gangsta-rap-boom-chick-a-wow-wow guy. Couldn't be happier with my setup that plays all music exceedingly well and best of all it was very affordable. Cheers.

@mndlessdrwer

2 жыл бұрын

If Fostex ever bothered to make a tower like Definity Audio has with subs in the bottom but using some of their more exotic full-range driver, I would have to put a lock on my wallet. They make some fantastic full-range speakers. The only problem you encounter with single-driver full-range solutions is beaming. This is why KEF and ELAC and a handful of raw driver manufacturers have taken the coincidental coaxial approach to reduce this. You still get your point-source with significantly less beaming, but at the cost of coherency, since you've decoupled the tweeter from the woofer and you'll inevitably have differences in attack speed, decay, dispersion, etc. It also depends a lot on the listening volume and the size of your speakers. if you're running 8" or larger full-range speakers from, like, 4' or less away, then you may not experience enough beaming to warrant consideration of a separate tweeter if your full-range driver is competent enough in those frequencies.

With the wife and daughter both working from home these days, I have to watch the noise levels during work hours. But my Edifier 1280DB's are just perfect, great sound, no sub needed and fit on my desk- no need for anything bigger.

There's definitely something to be said for portability/ease of moving around. I'll always be a floorstander guy because of the larger drivers that some of the floorstanders use. It's tough to beat displacement.

@PhilipBallGarry

7 ай бұрын

Harley Davidson have been saying this for years 😉

As a 53 year old man who spent countless hours in "sound rooms" during his teen years listening to speakers without knowing what they cost until AFTER the demo I find your channel very refreshing! This video makes a lot of honest points but this can also be reverse engineered as I did. A few years ago I picked up a pair of Klipsch RF7 ii's for under $400 locally! Having cash on hand, a large enough vehicle and knowing such large items are difficult to sell I was able to get the for an absolute steal. I've had both bookshelf and towers throughout my life and I don't think bookshelves with subs quite give the same tight sound from towers but I'm always up for a listen to anything. Another small thing I wanted to mention, I too have Amazon HD music service and as much as I love it I was finding some older recordings on there, mostly country music sounded like trash. I thought for a moment perhaps my recollection was better than actuality so I took the time to dig out a bunch of my CD's and do an a/b test with amazon's files and as I remembered the CD's were MUCH better. Apparently some more obscure stuff must have been sourced off of really poor material because it was serving me a lossless flac file at a high resolution but clearly the CD was way better. For newer/popular music the Amazon service is great, no difference and perhaps better than the CD if you have superhuman hearing. I think a lot of people especially those audiophile types want to claim they have hearing better than they actually do which is why I never want to know what I'm listening to prior to the demo. It's sad not many sound rooms exist anymore, buying any speaker without listening seems ridiculous.

@ChrisTheKid83

2 жыл бұрын

Wow that deal is amazing! I have RF-3 and love them, but have dreamed of RF-7’s for years now. I have to start looking again.

@robwasnj

2 жыл бұрын

@@ChrisTheKid83 Yeah, it was a lucky find, I was watching facebook marketplace for over a year. I also managed months later to get the flagship center channel to match, another very good deal because I thought it was a used one I was bidding on (language barrier) but it turned out to be totally new in box! The speakers are natural beech or something and the center is black but can't complain. I also got my power amps (QSC SRA 3622's) from a guy down in AL that I trusted would send them, he did in an off Ebay deal. Probably not a wise thing but a very good deal for me and he was happy needing money for college and he had stopped using them to DJ. Sometimes people pass on, get divorced... many reasons that expensive gear is sold. Best piece of advice, call them on the phone don't just rely on messenger and no B.S., be ready to meet them and have the cash in hand once you know you're getting what was listed. I had one seller i bought a subwoofer from later call me and offer me his preamp very cheap because everyone else that had came to his house did thing like say "oh, I only have $$ with me" once they had already agreed on a price... not cool.

@rabarebra

2 жыл бұрын

And these ridiculous Klipsch RF7 II speakers you need an amplifier. Why don't you just buy some really good two-way active studio speakers, and a active subwoofer?

@robwasnj

2 жыл бұрын

@@rabarebra In short I like how they sound? I already had 5 large amps before I purchased the RF7's, in fact my low end isn't active, I use passive 15" cabinets for bass. Believe it or not large speakers don't always require a big amp, oftentimes as in the case of companies like Klipsch and Cerwin Vega the speakers are extremely efficient and can be driven to loud listening levels with a moderate sized amplifier. i rarely use more than a fraction of the power I have, turning the volume way up is deafening loud and I hope to still have some hearing left into my senior years. Prior to the RF7's I had two JBL studio monitors on stands, they sounded quite good but I prefer the Klipsch, to me it's a much wider soundstage and brighter sound. Some of us love that sound, others hate it and say it's grating.

@rabarebra

2 жыл бұрын

@@robwasnj 5 large amps? I have 6 amps, and they're all inside its speakers. Sounds ten times better than any non-powered speakers.

I like both. I have 5 systems with bookshelf speakers and one with large Klipsch towers with a large sub. Sometimes you feel like listening to different speakers. That's why I own 27 speakers.

@Cyba_IT

2 жыл бұрын

Damn, and I thought 3 full systems with quadrophonic bookshelves and one tower system with 3 pairs of KEF's and 2 subs was rather extravagant. Nice work Mike :)

@mikecampbell5856

2 жыл бұрын

@@Cyba_IT I would love your KEFs. Thanks! I do have a Marantz 2020b in my garage. Overkill.

@Cyba_IT

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikecampbell5856 Haha, you can never have too much audio gear my friend, no matter what the mrs says :p

@cjaygreene1126

2 жыл бұрын

lol

@stevesmith3033

2 жыл бұрын

How many guitars and amps do you have Mike Campbell?? Hahahahaha

Haven't seen too many CAM vids, but this is the best. Full of useful, factual info. Well done.

I was always a floor-stander guy (Klipsch RF-3, B&W CM10s, Spendor A3, Jensen LS-5b etc.) until I recently bought a set of Buchardt A500 active stand mount speakers. Fantastic imaging, no interconnecting cables, adaptable sound signature (via programable DSP) and DEEP bass. They are also much easier to reposition than my old floor standing speakers. Personally I'm sold. I also have a pair of B&W CM5 stand mount speakers, and while they are good, they lack the bass heft that I wanted. In the end get what makes you happy!

You make some valid points, and there's some well explained logic in this video. There are obviously pros and cons with both floor standing and bookshelf speakers, and each room is a huge variable that should be considered. Also, the potential cost of good stands for a bookshelf speaker is not insignificant, but they aren't a requirement in every situation, and should still allow a buyer to stay within the "less expensive" goal if they shop wisely. Larger speakers with more bass output and extension tend to be more prone to exciting room resonances in some rooms, whereas a smaller speaker is less likely to do so, due to the simple aspect of having less of the frequency output that tends cause those resonance issues. As the video points out, it's a bit tougher to address bass issues with tower speakers than it is for bookshelf speakers with a sub, because there's just more flexibility for addressing the room needs for bass with the sub and smaller speakers via placement, more specific volume control, crossover frequency selection, phase, etc. In your example of the Klipsch towers and Klipsch bookshelf speakers, the two speakers share several intentional design concepts (family traits) like similar cabinet construction/treatment, same/similar drivers, and likely some similarities in crossover parts and configuration, wiring, etc, which should mean there a lot of similarities in sound quality, clarity, and sonic signature, with the exception that the smaller speakers will likely have less bass output and extension (which is where the subwoofer comes into play). So given that there's essentially no "next level" upgrade benefits from spending more on the bigger speakers (in this example), there's an opportunity to spend some of the money saved on improvements to the rest of the system, and end up with some upgrade benefits after all. You could also look to an upgrade in overall speaker quality by going with a higher quality bookshelf speaker and sub over a lesser tower system. It all boils down to what you like the sound of, but I think this video suggests some great ways to help our audio budget go farther.

@scottroberts4551

Жыл бұрын

Great point about the room factor.

@OdinHardware

4 ай бұрын

learned something from your comment . thanks

I shopped for stand mounts this year. Found the tower version reduced, worked out cheaper then the standmounts plus stands. It seemed like an easy choice!

@keithmoriyama5421

11 ай бұрын

Not only that but, the towers sound better and you still need a sub!

@GeirRssaak

2 ай бұрын

Very good point!

@GeirRssaak

2 ай бұрын

You are so right!

You can easily add subwoofers to tower speakers for even better frequency blend and great bass. Once you add stands to bookshelf speakers they take us just as much space as tower speakers. Just like with bookshelf speakers you can subs for even better bass. Unless the room is small I feel like the advantage lies with tower speakers, but I respect your opinion.

@Eric-xx3mb

2 жыл бұрын

@@wojtek-33 You're paying more for towers, but flexibility is debatable. Towers can fill a larger room with more sound and at least give you the option to use them without subs later if you choose to do so and retain more bass extension. One could argue towers may be able to blend with subs better than book shelves, once again due to greater bass extension. The only flexibility book shelves give you come from their size, but since you usually have to put them on speaker stands they use up about the same amount of space in the room as towers anyway. It's true that book shelves can be more easily shipped when reselling them, however. I feel like the larger your room and budget the more attractive tower speakers will become. If you're buying high-end speakers and you like to get new ones every couple of years and you don't live in a large metro area where reselling is possible you may want to consider bookshelf speakers based on resellability alone.

@shipsahoy1793

2 жыл бұрын

In my mind, if you have to add a subwoofer to a pair of stereo tower speakers, then you probably shouldn’t be buying those tower speakers, because in that specific instance, the flexibility of being able to use subwoofers with the towers is really going cost you more, and what space are you really saving in a large room against floorstanders?

I've always prefer towers, but over the last year gravitating towards bookshelves. Do feel like dealing with the bulkiness of floor standers anymore. Plus, bookshelves are easier to deal with.

@bottomendbliss

4 ай бұрын

my condolences.

They both have their place. I do agree that you can dial in things easier with a sub and bookcases. The older I have gotten the more I realize you are looking for the punch more than the pound of the bass. The difference is hearing the drum or hearing them hit the drum and hearing it move.

Towers all day. I'm a never-bookshelfer (I've got 2 sets of bookshelves, they bothl got replaced with towers: rp600m, ub5). Even small towers don't have the punch I want and I'm not a basshead or one who listens crazy loud but I want big sound. I prefer dual 8", nothing smaller that I've heard works on that really hard bass music.

@vtkz

2 жыл бұрын

sorry, but an RP or UB5 isnt realy the state of the Art bookshelf presentation... Genelec 8351, Neumann KH310 or KH120, Unity The Rock,Sky Audio Verdade - this are High End Bookshelfs. All that low priced consumer stuff a la Klipsch, Dali, Magnat is (sorry) mostly Crap

@kohnfutner9637

2 жыл бұрын

@@vtkz thanks for sharing your expertise. One day maybe I'll be more equipped to move into that echelon, as of now, I'm comparing my rp towers to bookshelves. Towers, for me, are the clear winner by leaps and bounds. Honestly, I like the spatial audio sapphires x5s.

@vtkz

2 жыл бұрын

@@kohnfutner9637 When youve fun everything is perfect. I heard many passive Towers and i dont like them (also expensive stuff from brands like Magico, Dali or Wilon Benesch wasnt 100% my taste). But i‘m also a little bit more on the ,,exotic,, side of hifi since years. I choosen Studio Gear because i dont like most of the typicall ,,consumer?!,, Hifi Loudspeaker i heard so far. I had also different Klipsch’s many years - Bookshelfs and also the rf7 - Never want to go back to this type of products again. Maybe try active ones out, order some good monitors and make a comparison. Never heard open Baffles. The main problem is see with them is the room acoustic because the room is the cabinet and when you dont treat it correctly… i see more problems than solutions there (but thats just guessing)

@michaelweber5968

2 жыл бұрын

@@vtkz I made my own hybrid speakers 2 8" BC acoustics woofers in a box sealed two planar magnetic midranges open baffle and four planar magnetic tweeters open baffle The baffle is 1 1/2 inch cherry live edge The sound is just incredible I never heard open baffle speakers until I built mine Probably never go back to normal ones. My trade off was my low bass The two BC acoustics put together are 97db sensitive I tried to port them to get better bass but the planars are just too fast without the vacuum inside the box the woofers couldn't keep up so I had to seal them Anyway enjoy doing what you do it's all about the enjoyment for us all

@mark17840

2 жыл бұрын

i love my towers speakers the sound is beter. all way with towers sweet sound everything you need for the best sound around

I have been running M&K satellites and dual subs for a few years now. Oh also using a crossover to cut the bass out of the satellites at 80-100hz. You can setup the stand mounts in just the right place then do the subs so they all work together. Lovely! This idea was popularized in the 70s by M&K. It works extremely well.

I agree!!! I always had bookshelf speakers, never liked towers. Stand mount speakers are more ear level. I like the look also.

Wow. Submarine guys are so special. Thumbs up as always Randy. Excellent arguments. Can't wait for the 5 reasons towers are better than bookies. Efficiency, impact (mid range/bass slam), output, realism, frequency range, no stands/dual subs required, etc.

@philipteater3714

2 жыл бұрын

👍 someone who gets Randy’s humor

I have to agree on that one. I just ordered the klipsch RP 600 and the RP 8000 F and compared them right next to each other. The RP 600 bookshelf speakers just sounded way better combined with a subwoofer than the RP 8000 F tower speakers.

@chrismonterubio9475

Жыл бұрын

I had a pair of Klipsch R26FA reference towers with the built in atmos modules. I only used the built in atmos modules for about three weeks before going with dedicated height speakers. I used the towers for about a year, and they were decent, but I recently upgraded them to the RP600M’s, and with dual subs they easily compete with most towers.

@kenneths.perlman1112

Ай бұрын

So how were the floor standing speakers with the sub? Apples to apples.

@srupp9271

Ай бұрын

@@kenneths.perlman1112 Not great. The bookshelf speakers were just way better together with the sub.

From what you said I'll go with floor standers.

For my listening preferences, I prefer towers. I spent much of 2021 experimenting with bookshelves plus sub. This included the Elac UB5, and Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2EX. Those bookshelf speakers on stands look so cool. I want to like them! However, I listen to a lot of large scale orchestral recordings. Even with a sub, the bookshelves leave a lot to be desired in bringing out the presence and depth of a full orchestra, especially in upper bass and lower mids. I have settled on some vintage Kef 104/2's for my orchestral stuff. They have 2- 8" woofers, 2- 4" midrange drivers, soft dome tweeter, plus my Rel sub. They are glorious. For all other genres I have really enjoyed the bookshelf plus sub combo. Randy, you make some good points as to why bookshelves would be preferable for a lot of folks.

@darkpatches

2 жыл бұрын

That's what I noticed recently, too, after digging out my old speakers from the early 90's and placing them in the basement. Each has a 12" woofer. The sound just feels bigger with orchestral music. Though they go deep (32 Hz), they lack some punch, which explains why I got a sub a few years later, but they completely enjoyable with orchestral recordings. I love my bookshelfs plus sub, but there's something special about the big speakers.

@haansolo7834

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, larger speakers certainly have more impact. They make you feel sound more even in the mid area. And they can sound more full even if you are listening in low volume

@rabarebra

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkpatches 12" woofers won't sound any good. It sounds more like you have a PA-system.

@darkpatches

2 жыл бұрын

@@rabarebra Huh, I guess that explains why they don't.

@rabarebra

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkpatches Or you just don't know better.

honestly I'm all for it, I work at a best buy and all my favorite speakers to listen to and test are the bookshelves. Namely the Kef bookshelves.

@bottomendbliss

4 ай бұрын

Damn...Admire your honesty but you deserve better.

Randy! Another great video! Funny, funny intro too. A lot of excellent and true points that no one (till now!) talks about. Another powerful reason that bookshelves are better, is that it's easier to get spousal approval, partly because of size, and partly cause they're cheaper. I've had huge speakers, and I just don't want to devote that much floor space to them anymore. I love the flexible placement options one has with bookshelves. And last, speakers have improved so much in the last three decades, that for low to medium volume levels, a floorstander just isn't needed to achieve excellent quality sound. If I can't get the job done with a great 6 1/2" woofer and 1" dome tweeter, there's a problem with the brand, model, or manufacturer.

@firemyst9064

Жыл бұрын

That intro was hilarious! I just scrolled through 20 comments and nobody mentioned that in their first 40 words. Buffalo Bill's bed and breakfast?! Super wild, I almost don't believe that's a real B&B.

With AVR receivers you can set the crossover not only in the preout going to the sub, but they have a crossover for each speaker as well. So you can adjust your tower speakers to not even get a signal starting at any frequency you want.

@inglouriousmofo

Жыл бұрын

Not my Yammy, it's all or none, only sub crossover lol

“Cheaper” and “Better” are two different categories. What makes a speaker “Better” is the way it’s sounds.....period. If they are cheaper, well, then they’re cheaper...that’s it. The KLH Kendall’s which I dare you to review, will make this video pretty “moot”. Rated at 96db, with proprietary crossovers, Kevlar Drivers all in a Real Wood Cabinet...these reach down to 25hz needing no subwoofer. And for 1299, no Bookie Sub Combo for the same price can compare. And of yeah make sure to add in the extra price for some decent stands for those Bookies!! Now if you titled this video “Why Bookshelf Speakers may make more sense to buy?!” Then you’d have no argument from me.

@johnr6168

2 жыл бұрын

You make a very very good point.

They are better in every way except sound.

@tgs1766

2 жыл бұрын

How’s your kool-aid? Was it yummy? Sounds like you drank it all.

Hi Randy, I know you’ve reviewed the SVS Prime and Ultra bookshelves. Do you plan on reviewing their Ultra Towers at some point, or does their price point exclude them from your reviews?

I watched this with great interest as I have tried this very same idea of using bookshelf speakers with a sub so the exact reason given here. Proac response bookshelfs were hard to marry to a sub (and B&W) - I tried lots of settings and combinations and found that the speakers were amazing, though lacked the depth I desire with a always flat eq (I know tone control are OK to use, but I don't wish to sacrifice detail / colour the sound at certain frequencies so I'm flat all the way and direct). The bass unit did what it does and was fine for movies, but it wasn't tight or coherent enough for music I found (it was rubbish in fact). I moved to huge pricey piega classic speakers which I unfortunately found fatiguing which took some of the pleasure away from them (beautiful looking things though and very balanced sound, I wanted to love them but... ). I then went back to ProaAc recalling the notable quality of the sound and wanted towers to lose the bass box that didn't do what I had hoped. Response DT8's purchased and I won't look back. These towers aren't huge or dominating (in fact the design is quite boring and unassuming), but the sound is nothing short of jaw dropping. The detail, speed, spaciousness and depth is all there and there is no fatigue at all - I can't stress enough I want for nothing more with what these speakers can do - if you can audition some I really recommend it. I enjoy trying different audio equipment, but I would not swap out these speakers now, there is no way of improving the sound vs space etc that I can fathom, I shall upgrade my amp to Roksan from Marantz, which I found enhances ProAc enough to justify the cost and make my system complete. I know this isn't very 'cheap', but it is nowhere near the crazy money end of audio either by a long stretch. I think I have found the sweet spot of cost vs quality here. The bass bin has been banished to the garage.. I should probably sell it because I shall never need it again 🙂 Thanks for the vids, the extra income plugs are a little tiresome, but I appreciate some people seem to like what you offer with it and it's just what happens on KZread channels now I guess 👍🏻

I had a pair of Tannoy J95 towers but have now got a pair of Bowers & Wilkins 606s on their proprietory stands filled with zinc granules as well as running a REL T-5 sub. The complete price of all that was £1300 GBP, around $1500 plus USD. The sound is astounding and competes with so many other speaker setups!.....

Randy, I went from Kef LS50 to dynaudio c1 platinums and thought they were incredible. I moved on to a 2 way magico s1mk2 and thought that was the end for me with a pair of subs. Well the subs have stayed but the speakers were replaced with a 3 way tower pair of Rockport Atria II. They blow away everything else I have had up to this point. I feel like you benefit from subs with almost every speaker.

@steelic1

2 жыл бұрын

Wow you’ve gone from sub $2000 speakers to $30k towers

@klewja

2 жыл бұрын

@@steelic1 Yes I went off the deep end. I have blown through 4 speakers in about 4 years along with 5 dacs and 4 amps to get here. I am lucky to have a dealer that has become a friend so I am able to get some great deals.

Bookies are a good way of sampling a brands flavor of sound without dropping major loot down.

That surround sound suggestion was a good point if you're on a budget , thanks .

I've had a few pairs of tower speakers, I always felt they were at the wrong height for where my listening position was, I even built stands for the towers, to bring them up to ear level, defeating the point of buying towers, the lesson learned was buy book shelves and custom build stands to bring them to the perfect listening position, for me that's the tweeters at ear level,

Tower vs two way stand mount has as much to do with room size you're working with and both have their pro and cons. I do agree that towers are not automatically better, just different. I have gone back and forth over the decades, currently doing the two way + sub combo currently. For fullest sound, SPL, and "feeling" the music, floor standers + a sub! :)

@B08AH

Жыл бұрын

Author all but implies that you are unable mix tower speakers with subs. But yeah, there are no laws against it or anything.

@willbrink

Жыл бұрын

@@B08AH Then the author is wrong.

@andrewlim7751

Жыл бұрын

Have to admit, this is the best option alright....you have get yourself the best sub you can find.

I went from bookies + subs to Tekton Double Impact. Will never look back.

I am a tower brat, but in my youth, I loved my Jensens... Great points! And my first surround system were small Polks which rocked.

You convinced me. I came from the older mentality that whoever had the largest speakers and speaker enclosures wins. I like my Klipsch RP600Ms. They work well with my tube amp. Maybe I'll add one or perhaps two subwoofers someday.

@Pseudo_Boethius

2 жыл бұрын

Get a REL subwoofer for those, and you'll be in heaven. 😃

Great points, and they attest to the versatility of bookshelves. I think all of these advantages stand, as long as we are talking about a smallish / medium size room, and we are comparing to towers also in the 80s dB/Wm efficiency. However, when the the room allows, large size speakers have advantages that bookshelves cannot provide: efficiency, dynamic range, and scale. These all require "lungs" (large free air volume), and adding subs does not help (compact sub adds dynamically compressed bass...) You mentioned one point towards the end that resonates most with me: upgrading the system the small bookshelf speakers can step up big time, so there's no reason to be sad in case you have a small room and no space for large speakers. I might be the minority in my view that I prefer bookshelves unaccompanied (no subs), as adding a sub so far has soured the taste for me, and destroyed the beauty of precision and focus that the bookshelves can achieve unhindered by subs in a very high level system. Although I would add that bookshelves + a pair of subs takes up more floorspace than a pair of floorstanders when set up optimally... Cheers, Janos

@peterbaugh51

Жыл бұрын

Finally a vote for no sub. I tried subs with bookies on tube and solid state amps. Could not get a realistic music sound with subs. Gave them away. Now run Elac dbr62's with rockville tube amp. Can hear down to 35 htz. Lower than cheap subs. After break in for one year, the elacs sound even better. Stands- $45 wood plant stands with foam pad cut to fit under speakers. Awesome sound. Must hear to believe. Great for movies. The amp makes a big difference to my ear.

I'm gonna' need a full, 12-minute review of an audio component by Buffalo Bill. Have a great weekend!

Great ideas for my computer sound system for listening to music while I work or play games, but for my sound room, I wouldn't give up my tower speakers. Maybe they're harder to setup but it should only be a matter of taking the time to set things up well and get far better sound.

@jimsimmons2674

2 жыл бұрын

I agree,i built speakers as a hobby for 30 years and it really depends on your audio setup,if you listen to 2 channel audio for mostly music then i would say tower speakers are better because if designed right the low end can sound more natural then using a sub,you do not need to go down to 20hz with a sub for most music listening,it can sound too muddy with the sub's low end.For 5.1 surround and higher yes i would agree bookshelf speakers are better because it is easier to match and position 5 or more speakers for that movie experience also the cost of all the speakers would be much less then towers.The sub is also a plus in a surround system because most movie sound effects go down to the lower frequencies and a subwoofer can really add to that experience. Tower speakers do not need a sub or stands,the low end should go down to around 35hz or lower for decent bass on a tower speaker and also if you position your speakers a few feet from the walls you should get a decent low end response but that depends on your room size,what kind of floor the speakers are on,wood or on concrete in the basement,on a wooden floor you will get more low end so maybe you have to position your speakers more then two feet from the walls,on concrete floor maybe closer to walls for proper low end,i think you get the idea.

This is the info we want and need from established audiophiles 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

Yep. This is the method being used to help grandson get into this hobby. Start with lower cost alternatives, improve as the budget allows. BTW have you noticed the large number of high-quality, terrific sounding bookshelf/desktop/monitors are available? Great topic. and it can go with any DAC you choose.

@cheapaudioman

2 жыл бұрын

Great inexpensive stuff is available

@mndlessdrwer

2 жыл бұрын

Or you can do like my friend did with IEMs and jump pretty rapidly to a set right on the edge of the azimuth of return on investment, thus making it incredibly difficult to buy upgrades for him.

@CrashCarson14

2 жыл бұрын

Usedddddddf

Great set of arguments for bookshelves. Agree with all of them and yet still found myself buying a pair of stage a170s over their bookshelf a130s. This was an odd case of a sale making the bookshelf plus stands costing the same as towers and my room is large enough that I will appreciate the larger speakers.

@cheapaudioman

2 жыл бұрын

yeah. the JBL stage series is such a crazy value that my "cheaper" argument doesn't really apply with those. I want to hear the towers in the stage series.

@labrat9831

2 жыл бұрын

@@cheapaudioman the stage a170 are $360 a pair with free shipping right now on crutchfield. While the reviews on the towers are minimal stereophile did a nice one on the stage a170. No good vid review though…..nudge nudge.

I have a pair of Dynaudio Evoke 20 bookshelf speakers in my home office, and I love them. I tried them in my downstairs listening room and they just didn't work there. I found a pair of Dynaudio Excite 38s on closeout that do a much better job there. This is a well considered video, though - thanks!

Theres no better or worse on tower vs bookshelves. If you have a small space, the towers does not make sense since it will produce so much bass. If you have big space to fill the bookshelves might not produce enough energy to fill the room. Its more of a requirement than anything else. I tried to place tower speakers in a small space and it was laughable to say the least. Bass was all over the place and just overwhelmed the room. Then placed my bookshelves in the living room, well that bottomed out quickly. Lol just buy speaker according to the space your working with.

@bumkrilla5339

Жыл бұрын

A good avr goes a long ways you can use the sound correction that's build in then set the tower to small then higher the crossover the accommodate for the smaller room if you ever need to move them to a larger room you can let them go wild I personally buy towers because then I have to buy stands and I don't like the way most speaker stands look

Well, most of the time I use bookshelf speakers because I ALWAYS use a sub. But in an application where you want to really crank it, floorstanders will typically play louder and still stay clear. And I do like 3-way designs for pure music.

@rodionpavlenko4680

2 жыл бұрын

Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 is a 3-way bookshelf speaker ;-)

@bottomendbliss

4 ай бұрын

@@rodionpavlenko4680 Yeah but it still sounds like a bookshelf.

My name is Chris. I figured out this in the 90's. I got suckered into buying the raved about floor standing dynamic speakers. I Never could make them work, despite changing Amps,preamps, multiple room changes,etc....(Alon VI's, Legacy Signature lll's,the list goes on.You are Dead Right!!! I designed/Built a pair of 6.5" two way bookshelf speakers that still blow me away! I have a pair of large passive mirror imaged isobaric subs that have dual Dynaudio 30w54 woofers in each cabinet, with Heathkit sub crossover , with two bridged Crown amps just for the subs.but the imaging,3d and tonal accuracy is unmatched by floor standing speakers! (Except maybe Quad ESL 57's, Klipsch horns,and the like.I have met too many people that agree with us!

The placement and position for best image and soundstage in your room may not always be the same for optimum bass performance. Unless it is, with typical floorstanders you will have to make a compromise, unless you're willing to spend IRS V type money

You need to buy stands for bookshelfs, and most likely they wont be as stable as floorstanding. Also, the efficiemcy is better with bigger one, as well as frequemcy range.

@richardhollingsworth8342

2 жыл бұрын

Having bookshelf speakers makes you a better speller.

@mr.hansen5195

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardhollingsworth8342 And more arrogant. At least in some cases, apparently.

@timthefosterdad

2 жыл бұрын

Mine are mounted to wall mounts and screwed to the mount. Not going anywhere.

@10Filip

2 жыл бұрын

@@timthefosterdad Which isnt usually the best place from acoustic point of view.

It's actually amazing that you had this video today. Great timing. For financial reasons, I'm selling a very large pair of Legacy Focus Towers. I just made a homemade pair of bookshelf speakers that use a full-range driver. I am absolutely blown away at how great the mid-range clarity and general instrument clarity is on those 1.2 cubic foot boxes. I had a 10 in KRK studio sub in a closet in my basement. I set it up in a corner in my relatively small 14 by 18 foot living room, this cheap setup really sounds great.

My opinion is still that towers are best when you can run a broad crossover for your sub-bass and bass handling to your subwoofer. I like my KEF iQ90 because they are designed in a way that actually takes advantage of the additional space in the tower to keep the bass response in line with everything else so they sound acceptable even without a sub, since they maintain quite a flat frequency response down to 30Hz. I bought mine second-hand, though, so I definitely didn't overspend to the same degree as I would have if buying the equivalent new. At the end of the day, you should be buying what you like. And if you don't know what you like, and you don't have a store near you that stocks them for demo, then buying the bookshelves are the cheaper option to demo the house sound before you consider towers. Maybe you decide you don't need the towers. Maybe you decide to buy the towers and a center and set up surround with the bookshelves. Maybe you just move the bookshelves to somewhere else. Whatever works for you.

That point #4 about reselling is a REALLY big consideration. I've had heavy/bulky tower speakers damaged in shipping and that's much less likely with a lighter, smaller bookshelf unit.

I came in ready to do battle but this makes total sense although...I believe the worst location for a bookshelf speaker is a bookshelf.

@welderfixer

2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing! The sound from a speaker in a bookshelf is most often hollow. Might as well put a speaker in an 55 gallon oil drum.

@retepmo6534

2 жыл бұрын

It was a big selling point back in the KLH, Advent, EPI etc. days. Remember some of the catalogs showing the speakers tucked neatly out of the way in a bookshelf. The sound from there... well, like you said.

@DougMen1

2 жыл бұрын

We need to call them what the audio press calls them- stand mount speakers

Great review, and timely for me as I have moved from floor standers to stand mounts…definitely a happy move for me. For the same investment, I have moved up to a higher echelon of speaker.

I agree, for the most part! I have recently bought a pair of Klipsch R-51Ms connected with KnuKonceptz Kord Kable 14 Gauge Copper Speaker Wire to a used vintage Harman Kardon 490i Receiver. I'm very surprised that these Klipsch R-51M speakers have plenty of detail for a 2 way driver design! Furthermore, bass is certainly there; although any such bookshelf speakers cannot scratch into deep bass; obviously. I have bought a used Rega Planar 3 turntable without tonearm, and no drive belt; as a partly DIY turntable project. I installed a Linn Basik Plus tonearm, and new silicon belt. I mounted, and aligned a new Audio Technica AT95E MM cartridge. Works fine.🔉🎼🎵

@tcblackg35

2 жыл бұрын

Try upgrading to the RP line bookshelves you’ll be happier

I still have-- from about 20 years ago-- an ADC speaker system that consists of two satellites and a floor module. The satellites consist of tweeter and midrange only; the floor module is the woofer-- NOT subwoofer. The arrangement was somewhat popular for.a year or two, then consumer subwoofers started to proliferate. I actually have a second tweeter/midrange separate woofer set made by Acoustic Research, purchased on closeout.

They aren't really cheaper though, only if you are going for cheaper. I mean towers go just as cheap. There are bookshelves that are out of a lot of people's price range. Also figure stands.

No arguments here, but I think where floor-standers CAN excel is that most are three-way, so potentially better midrange and also much higher power handling and volume. You can also spend way more on floor-standing speakers to deliver better sound. I have a set of aging B&W Nautilus 804 tower speakers and they just flat out blow away my set of Wharfedale EVO 4.2 bookshelfs and subwoofer. Why? The floor-standers are bigger, so you can pack more sound dollars into them.

You arguments about bookshelf vs towers is well reasoned and makes sense to me. Nonetheless, when I upgraded the speakers in my den AV system I opted for a pair of Polk TSi300 towers, which are not really "full range", particularly for an AV system, paired with a Polk Signature Series S35 center channel speaker. I kept a Yamaha 8" powered sub that I already had in the system. The tower speakers place the tweeters almost exactly on the same level as my head when seated. I replaced the (cheap) Cerwin Vega center speaker but kept the original high wall mounted Cerwin Vega L&R speakers to switch from a 5.1 surround setup to a 7.1 setup with the CV's becoming front L&R "height" speakers. I've had height speakers in my home theater since constructed and I really like the effect. The surround speakers also remained from the original CV speaker bundle. I've never used bookshelves on a stand. What keeps the speakers from getting knocked off the stands? I don't have kids or pets but it seems to me that stability could be a problem.

Very good video. For me it is important that the speakers "disappear" and you feel nothing is between you and the music. Hard to do that with towers even though small speakers may take up the same space with stands.

@ulissepellegrino7175

Жыл бұрын

Go for good satellites and good subs and you will be surprised

I have had Revel Concerto M16’s (bookshelf) for two years and I love them, they are used with Paradigm Seismic 110’s. However, I splashed out on their bigger brother the F36 (towers), which cost twice the amount, but I did have to buy good stands for another $400. Without a doubt the Towers are better in my room and the bookshelves took on side surround responsibilities. So my opinion is if you are tight on budget get as good a pair of bookshelf’s, however, if you can push your budget go for the towers, in the long run they may prove the better investment. In my case the extra $600 was worth it and if I only wanted stereo I may have regretted buying the bookshelf first now I know the sound difference.

@rickgrimes4845

2 жыл бұрын

Did you use the M16s for music or movies or both, thinking between them and KEF R3s for my 5.1 setup to replace my floorstanders

@colinwilby8803

2 жыл бұрын

@@rickgrimes4845 I used them for both, but they now are doing Side surround duties as I have just bought F36’s.

@rickgrimes4845

2 жыл бұрын

@@colinwilby8803 Yeah I went and got the Revel M16s today. Listened to them side by side with the R3 at the local hifi shop and somehow the sound was just more present, male vocals sounded somehow a bit distant on the R3s. Satisfied with music performance so far. Have to watch a movie with these also to hear what they can do it that side.

@colinwilby8803

2 жыл бұрын

@@rickgrimes4845 I hope you enjoy them as much as me, spend a little time getting the position correct and I am sure you will be.

I’m going to say this, but please understand that I’m NOT trying to make y’all unhappy with your sense of decor. I’ve just always felt that a fairly large box (the monitor) sitting atop a spindly structure (the stand) visually communicates unsteadiness - and so, potentially, toppling disaster. Then one learns the “matching stands” are a third of the price of the monitor itself, bringing a complete system cost with comparably priced subwoofer quite close to a tower pair. Then one realizes the floor space footprint of a tower isn’t much different than a stand mount system, and certainly less than stand mounts plus sub. So visually, financially and operationally the stand mount system is not clearly superior - (ahem) to me. So IF you can live with bass that rolls off at about 37 Hz, a pair of towers allows one to live without a sub. But, this tower preference doesn’t hold up in a room where you have to lug the speakers into “listening positions “ and then back into “decor positions “ after a listening session. I’ve tried it with towers - ugh! Whereas the Emotiva towers in my home theater (set it and forget it positions) are a joy, no sub needed for me. The moral to this story: you and your room and your life partner are in a negotiation about living and listening space, and happiness is choosing a system that reflects the realities of that negotiation.

@Canadian_Eh_I

2 жыл бұрын

There's other reasons why Bookshelves can be great that he doesnt know about. It has to do with vibration. Something that tall towers suffer from and is harder to fix. With bookshelves you can put isolators underneath the stands and then ANOTHER set right underneath the speaker. They work together with the seismic mass of the stand (if its heavy enough) to greatly reduce vibrations they obscure sound quality, regards,

@Pepe-dq2ib

2 жыл бұрын

@@Canadian_Eh_I never had or heard of vibration problems with quality towers. Are they buying Chinese stuff?

@Canadian_Eh_I

2 жыл бұрын

@@Pepe-dq2ib Lol EVERY speaker has vibration 'problems'. Or at least as much as you consider vibration a problem, in a less resolving system not so much.

@Pepe-dq2ib

2 жыл бұрын

@@Canadian_Eh_I speakers make sound by vibration, so everything is a problem then. Only solution is turning it off. The build quality is off and I don't believe the problem is inherently due to it being a tower. Send it back and have them fix it or buy something else, no point in bandaging.

@Canadian_Eh_I

2 жыл бұрын

@@Pepe-dq2ib Haha!

Agreed. Have had many of both.

I own those tower speakers in your thumbnail, the Wharfedale EVO 4.4 The only downsides of tower speakers I've experienced so far is the price and the weight. Bookshelves are cheaper, so you have more money left to buy records. And tower speakers are very heavy, which makes optimizing speaker positioning a pain in the back (literally). However, IMO, it's all worth it. And yes, my towers go deep enough, deep deep bass. Their -6dB point is 38Hz, but they go way beyond that point. I used to have a subwoofer, but I've sold it. About enjoying various different sound signatures: I get the point, I like that myself too. However, I change the sound signature by owning multiple cartridges on headshells to swap regularly. Those cartridges are way more compact than owning multiple bookshelf speakers!

I used to get people into home theater and help them choose and install their systems a lot (but kind of ran out of people after a while), and I virtually always recommended bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer (or two). Budgets were usually tight, and even when they weren't so tight, I'd always try to get people to step up to a better speaker if their budget allowed, so tower speakers rarely ever entered the equation, as they cost a lot more money for little if any gain. The process of integrating the subwoofer always made me grateful that I could move it independently of the directional speakers, and I always ended up with better results than relying on tower speakers for bass. Based on experience, I was preaching the message "Use subs and crossovers, even if you already had tower speakers as a starting point" online for many years before it became standard practice, and believe me, there was some major resistance early on, when most people still greatly preferring tower speakers and wanted to run them full range, even for home theater. With a properly integrated sub taking over most bass duties, it soon became obvious to me that bookshelf speakers were the way to go, especially for home theater, but also for two-channel music because of superior bass extension (with the right sub!) and integration (if set up properly). I had always wanted towers myself, many years ago, but no longer saw the point of them for the vast majority of installations once I really got into setting up home theater and music playback systems for others with a variety of equipment. There are exceptions, but those are generally for people who aren't real constrained by budget. If you have a huge budget and want 3-way towers with RAAL ribbon tweeters and purpose-designed, ultra-low-mass mid-range drivers for exquisite detail because there are separate woofers for the mid-bass and bass, and you'll also have a subwoofer or two, then go for the towers. Others who can't or simply aren't willing to afford anywhere near that level of expenditure are generally better off with bookshelf speakers and a sub. That's based on experience, not just theory, although the two sure aren't far off in this case.

@B08AH

Жыл бұрын

You can't go for higher tier shelf speakers. Since you need at least 4 higher tier speakers to replace 2 towers and 2 shelves. And you will need higher tier amplifier(s), to drive their potential. This is going to be far more expensive than just getting towers, and people who ask for acoustics advice will most likely not even hear the difference. Home theater is where floorstanders shine. Unlike some people's reasoning.

With decent towers you don’t need the extra hassle of a separate subwoofer

@dervel123

2 жыл бұрын

With a seperate subwoofer you don't need the extra hassle of tower speakers ;)

@ec6843

2 жыл бұрын

@@dervel123 But the footprint with bookshelf speakers and subwoofer is 50% more :(

@jimsimmons2674

2 жыл бұрын

Here is the problem with a separate subwoofer most non audiophiles set the sub level too high and do not have or know how to use a SPL meter to adjust the sub to a proper matched level to there other speakers so the low end thay get is way too strong and is off the mark!

@mrebear9758

2 жыл бұрын

Most floorstanders still benefit from a sub

@jimsimmons2674

2 жыл бұрын

That depends on the type of tower floorstanding speaker,if a tower speaker has two 5.4" drivers in a non ported cabinet a sub most likely would help but i built my own tower speakers with two 8"woofers in a ported cabinet along with 6.5" mid-bass and 4.5" midrange plus 3/4" tweeter and a sub does not make these speakers sound better most of the time,you would get a build up in the low end that is overpowering!

Maybe I missed it but speaker wall brackets can be adjustable to angle that tweeter to your seating position. My brackets adjust left/right up/down & you know it when you get it spot on, the difference is amazing with slight tweaks.

This was a great Video! I have my mans cave with Klipsch rp 6000 f, and i love them! But its absulutely true! No room, no sound!

My Klipsch Forte's disagree. good day sir.

I almost wanted to switch from KEF LS50 to towers. Any towers. Because my sub (SVS SB1000 pro) was not integrating well. All that has changed once I upgrade the sub to KEF KC62. Since the KC62 is so small and has no vibration, I can put the sub anywhere I want. My point is, integrating the sub is the key and can be difficult. But you will be rewarded once you find the sweet spot.

@henni1964

2 жыл бұрын

Try a pair of REL's, you will be amazed ... 🙂

@MrYiulau

2 жыл бұрын

@@henni1964 I am sure of that. But I don’t have room to properly place them.

100%. I’ve been using stand mounts and a sub for years.

I don’t even know if you went over the biggest issues with tower speakers. 1) Imaging. They tend to have more drivers, spread over more space. This means they’re less inclined to function as more compact point source radiators, a theoretically ideal speaker. Bookshelf speakers get much closer to this ideal. Having separate midrange and treble drivers further complicates imaging. The larger fronts of the floor standers also create issues with reflection. 2) Crossover. Floor standers tend to be 3-way designs. Many are even 4-way if you count the ports or passive radiator. Designing and building effective crossovers is an expensive art and can dramatically increase the price of the speaker, as can the design of the ports, radiators and whatnot. You can buy your way around these issues, but it won’t come cheap. 3) Cone breakup. The larger woofers typically found in floor standers are hugely vulnerable to cone breakup, where the driver doesn’t behave in a linear fashion. You also have issues where the midrange shifts around physically in space due to the large driver’s excursion. It’s less expensive to avoid these issues with the smaller bass/midrange drivers typically found in bookshelf speakers. 4) Cabinet resonances. In my book this is the worst issue with floor standing speakers. Their large sides - or even fronts and backs, as with old school traditional floor standers like the ones from 80s with their broad faces and shallow sides - are terribly susceptible to resonances. You can pay your way around it, but it’ll cost you a pretty penny for a tower with the engineering to avoid cabinet resonances, something even cheap bookshelf do just by their nature. Honestly, I can hear resonances from virtually all floor standers, even ones that cost a thousand more than their closet bookshelf relative. And they drive me NUTS. Once you hear cabinet resonances you can never un-hear them.

Wife-acceptance factor is better for bookshelf speakers ;-)

Towers for me anytime anyday. Give me a KEF Blade or Dynaudio Confidence 60 over any bookshelves. LMFAO!

@mydogskips2

2 жыл бұрын

That's not a fair comparison, nor cheap audio either.

@rabarebra

2 жыл бұрын

Don't forget to buy yourself those ridiculous priced gold-cables as well then. LOL

@-MarkWinston-

2 жыл бұрын

@@rabarebra that has to be the dumbest statement Ive heard all month and most probably all year after the 31st of december. You must be a flat earther or everything is snake oil kind of guy. I get it, its hard to sound intelligent without parroting random folks on the internet.

@rabarebra

2 жыл бұрын

@@-MarkWinston- Sorry that you do not understand audio setup, done properly.

@-MarkWinston-

2 жыл бұрын

@@rabarebra yet another dumb remark. You are just full of it.

I own a good set of towers but I agree with you on most of your points. Towers can be good to get more range out of the speakers and I was quite happy with the bass output from my towers for a long time. However I designed and built my own sub and it was one of the best things I've done. I used a plate amp with a built in DSP so I could high pass the towers and integrate them better with the sub. The crossover point ended up being higher than I anticipated so bookshelves of the same caliber would have worked equally as well. The sub was intended more for movies but I was surprised at just how much it brought to music listening as well, a good quality sub is now a must imo and a good pair of bookshelves plus a good sub will serve you well.

Props for chopping your videos into sections, saves a lot of time browsing for specific information.

@cheapaudioman

2 жыл бұрын

I used to do a couple like that. Thought this one lended itself for different sections.

@bottomendbliss

4 ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣saves time skipping the guff.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you on this.. Yes a stand mount speaker by itself, is cheaper than a tower. But then you have to factor in the cost of stands. Then purchasing rubber grommets to plug the cable management on the stands, then source some sand to fill the stands. Also, the cost of longer speaker wires for the stand mounts vs towers because the binding posts on towers are near the floor. Lastly, you have to worry about knocking the standmount off the stand, and damaging it. In the end, you should have purchased the tower. Have you tried to sell a damaged standmount speaker? I have, and had to sell them for dirt cheap because of the cosmetic damage. Lastly, you can control the amount of bass with a tower. You have tone controls for 1, or 2 you can pull them out further into the room, same thing goes with a standmount. I personally used Dirac to control the amount of bass. I personally like towers better, even though I started out with standmounts. Loved the video brother. You got us talking.

@Stan_the_Belgian

2 жыл бұрын

It's great clickbait and I love this channel, but I agree with you. My main issue is spl, it's ok for "critical listening" but you feel it more with bigger woofers. I use towers with subs, have no complaints.

@dicmccoy

2 жыл бұрын

@@Stan_the_Belgian I use subs with my towers too. Dirac does get my towers flat to 30hz, but when I test with and without subs, the subs are faster, more dynamic, and more textured. You'd also be surprised on how much content there is from 30-20hz. It's a lot more than you'd think. Lastly, my 4" mid woofer on the standmounts don't give the same impact with snare drums vs my 8" mid woofer. They take up the same footprint, but I got a whole lot more speaker in that same space.

@cheapaudioman

2 жыл бұрын

Monoprice stands are $120 a pair

@dicmccoy

2 жыл бұрын

@@cheapaudioman are they tall enough? I had to measure the height of my ear drums, then the height of the tweeter from the bottom of the cabinet, and research stands with their dimensions to find one that will bring the tweeter to eardrum level. In the end, I had to go with Transdeco 32" stands and took a lot of time to find the proper height stand. This something you don't have to worry about with towers. The height is what you get.

@brochg

2 жыл бұрын

@@dicmccoy What happens when the floor standers don’t line up evenly with your ear holes? They come in all different heights, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to let the height of a speaker make my choice. You would need to buy new speakers every time you got a new couch or listening chair. Floor standers would look pretty funny on stands.

Bookshelf’s just don’t satisfy me; floor standing ones have scale. But that being said, they are smaller and easier to integrate in decor

@cjaygreene1126

2 жыл бұрын

everyones ears are different freind

@CeeStyleDj

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, Apparently some people prefer less sound.

Great video. It's probably a fact of physics that you'll get a faster more responsive bass out of smaller cones and a sub than you will out of most bigger and way pricier towers.

im no audiophile and dont claim to be lol. im sure they all will laugh at me at what i say next but i really dont care. i recently got a screaming deal on a onkyo 7ch reciever and a full 5pc set of episode 500 series surround sound speakers. 4 bookshelfs and a center. i bought the whole thing for 70 bucks used locally. i actually really like how loud and clear they sound. i honestly couldnt be happier to be quite honest. i just ordered a klipsch 12" powered sub. currently waiting for it to arrive. i never heard of episode but i can say im quite impressed w the quality and sound of their speakers for sure. i cant wait to get my sub though thats for sure. i guess im saying you dont need to spend a million bucks on your stereo for it to sound good thats for sure. maybe i just got a killer deal i dont really know lol. but i can say best 70 bucks ive spent in a long time for sure. i was actually looking into getting towers myself tbh. maybe ill just stick w what i got who knows. i will say if you ever run into a deal on some episode speakers buy them you wont be disappointed. they sound phenomenal

You get what you pay for. I can see bookshelf in a small room, but makes no sense if the room is relatively large. High quality tower speakers prevail hands down.

Towers have more gravitas, although being easy to move becomes more important as you age. Also a lot of newbies have trouble adjusting the xovers for a bookshelf_sub combo. Space is no consideration as both take up the same space. NEVER put a bookshelf on a shelf. That notion has passed, only the name still exists

@xephael3485

Жыл бұрын

It depends on the shelf... bookshelf speakers/monitors sit on shelves all the time in sound studios next to workstations.

@MatSmithLondon

Жыл бұрын

@@xephael3485 What is the metric "gravitas" when assessing how good a speaker is? I'm not familiar with it.

@xephael3485

Жыл бұрын

@@MatSmithLondon me either 🤣

Recently got a pair of Atlantic Technology AT-1 towers used for $350. I’m loving them and also just upgraded from a Sony AVR STR-DN1020 to a Rotel rsp1068 and Rotel 1075 and I got both for a total of $240. Also picked up a Amazon link $80, Cambridge 551p-s phono preamp $75, and Pro-Ject 1xpression $500, Polk psw650 for $150. And I haven’t even got to listen to all of it hooked up yet, but I’m excited!

Nice I was just searching for some vids about this and my man Randy comes through

Bookshelfs rarely, if ever have mid-range drivers built in (if some do, it's the exception to the rule). Floorstanders do. Also, Floor standers usually have an additional woofer not to mention all the extra cabinet space. They also take up the same amount of real estate.

@pekkatervala8476

2 жыл бұрын

3-way isn't always better. Many 2-way speakers sound great especially on vocals and electric guitar. Price is a very poor quality meter, but expensive 2-way is usually better than cheaper 3-way floorstander. I have it the other way, passive more expensive large 3-way pair and smaller inexpensive active (6 3/4" woofer, ribbon tweeter) 2-way pair. I like both, 2-way for TV and KZread, 3-way for turntable and CD. But you will need proper stands for bookshelf speakers, generic ~20 inch (~50 cm) TV stand/cabinet is usually too low for them.

@CeeStyleDj

2 жыл бұрын

@@pekkatervala8476 hey, you like what you like and that's all good. And I'm not saying that bookshelves can't sound good. Of course they can! But remember, a bookshelf speaker is a compromise. With a floor sander, the speaker designer can Implement everything he or she intended in the initial design. Anyhow, I agree, it depends on your situation, setup, and room. I just did not like how completely one-sided this video was and seemed unlike Randy. Idk.... it rubbed me the wrong way. Still a subscriber though.

@pekkatervala8476

2 жыл бұрын

@@CeeStyleDj I like to have both options. But these days I'd prefer column style floor standers more than boxy old style. Then again, something with a 15" inch woofer has it's charm.

@CeeStyleDj

2 жыл бұрын

@@pekkatervala8476 I agree!

I wanted towers but I have a special needs daughter and did not want her to feel nervous playing around them, or even damage them so I got bookshelves. She is 7 years old now and still have the same undamaged bookshelves, no regrets.

@arjunmanoj2155

2 жыл бұрын

Are the bookshelves wall mounted or on a stand?

@khoi83

2 жыл бұрын

My nearly two year old boy is very active and actually heavy floorstanders are safer in the living room than a pair of bookshelf on stands.

@TonicofSonic

2 жыл бұрын

@@arjunmanoj2155 they are on the wooden square tier lamps you can buy all over the internet. I modified mine to have the light in the second tier low enough to be just below the screen and have a flat top above the second tier where the light shade is and used some large foam speaker pads under my bookshelves so they sit at the same height as the t.v. and sound a little better. Edit: I also modified the shade to be reinforced and used a fabric to have them darker on top, shaded in the middle and normal brightness on bottom. It looks really cool actually. Also, I put table in front of the whole setup so my daughter cannot get closer than 2ft to anything and the top opens up so all her movies are inside to choose from.

Randy, thanks for your solid insights in the audio world. Do to your influence my appreciation of high quality, low budget gear and superior music recordings has steadily moved upward. I started my low budget HT system with the great Sony SS-CS5 bookshelf speakers and have recently been lucky enough to move up to Emotiva T-Zero towers for the front L-R channels to match my Emotiva C1+ center and I'm not looking back. The Sonys have been moved to take on the duty of kick a$$ audio reproduction in my office/shop area with a wonderful NAD 214 power amp via my desktop PC. Yup! Awesome! A little off-topic post here, but I found the Lexington Lab Band here on KZread a couple days ago. They are a great cover band. I hope you like them. Even Buffalo Bill might agree with me. Oh! Manchester Orchestra - The Silence song is another worthwhile find. Enjoy and please have a great safe day folks.

GREAT Info.......I agree with your assessment!! I've used both and they each have advantages.

I personally love Bookshelf Speakers! Why get towers when they are normally twice the money but imo not double the performance.

@V1ralB1ack

2 жыл бұрын

More range, better dynamics, more efficiency so they play louder with half the power. No need for stands. A 2 way speaker probably will have more clarity and resolution because the crossover is simple but a 3 way tower or a 4 way will play better overall if done right but will cost much more.

I've had a pair of Mission M72i on stands since they were brand new (early 2000s), and I'm honestly blown away by their imaging and clarity to this day.

yes I knew we both shared love for some good bookies

I’ve been rocking B&W Matrix 805s for 27 years(+/- 1.75 Db 55Hz - 20,000Hz!). I run them with a big M&K sub. No need for floorstanders, here!

Something why i would rate bookshelfs higher than towers for personal use is how they handle bass. Towers for the most part have more bass than bookshelfs with some sort of ''sub'' build in. But that can be BAD. I have neighbours. Sometimes, i want to listen to music but i dont want to annoy anyone. I can be flexible, add a subwoofer to the system and i can also turn the subwoofer OFF late at night for example. I cant do that with towers, they allways deliver some amount off bass that could be too much for a given time. With bookshelfs and a sub, i have the best of both worlds, and i can be highly flexible. Towers are not. For me at least, they are impractical for every day use. I guess for some super rich guy who lives in his own house and noone cares and he can blast a rock concert at 3 at night...that might different. But i m just a normal person, living in a normal appartment, with normal neighbours around me.

@hocktooey

2 жыл бұрын

I'm in this situation right now. My old apartment was perfect for my Vandersteen 2CEs--though the neighbors did complain once about daytime noise--daytime! Now, in my current smaller apartment, I am trying to get a smaller but still robust sound. And this is difficult. The deep bottom is missing. I have a sub on the way. But the Def Tech D11s--on stands--have a bit of a muddy middle in comparison to the openness of the Vandersteens. My experience with bookshelf speakers is that most have too bright tweets with no richness in the middle. At least the D11s are smooth up top. Flexibility may be an advantage in terms of bookshelfs, but there are many serious considerations when choosing which compromises are most acceptable. If the sound has to be smaller than I can stand, I'll just plug my headphones in. The biggest compromise I have right now is the apartment. Perhaps after the lease is up, I can find something more appropriate for my speakers. I've got a few months to figure out how to sell this idea to my wife. Normal person challenges, I guess.