I’m new to the 1250 and have been researching end cans that won’t break the bank but maybe the priority has just changed. Thanks for the video and experiment. Cheers from Australia 🇦🇺

@RikkyTang

Жыл бұрын

I eventually sold that Leo Vince because I could not make it quiet enough without also affecting the bikes performance. But, I've just bought the same model again in a misguided second attempt to make it work this time! It looks so good on the bike I really want to be successful second time around. If you want a simple life, just buy an Akrapovic or Remus! 😊

Hey Rikky, nice investigative video. Great contributions to those of us with boxer engines. I wanted to get an aftermarket exhaust for my 2020 R 1250 RS. However, I'm getting more comfortable with the lack of noise. I'll probably wait until the warranty is up before I start monkeying around with the exhaust and engine settings.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

When I first got the bike, that huge chrome silencer looked like an eyesore to me but now it's given me full power I think I can kinda forget it's there (until I try taking moody photos of the bike again!) I think the OEM Akra works well on this bike but it is big and expensive... but then again maybe big exhausts are what this big boxer engine needs! Shame it costs so much money to find these things out. The chrome cannon will stay on for now 😁

@malcolmabram2957

3 жыл бұрын

I have a R1250R with the standard exhaust from BMW, and yes at speed the engine just sounds like the drone of a lancaster bomber on its way for a bomb drop (not like my R100T of old). But on start up and accelerating (and it goes like mad on a road), the sound gives a tremendous buzz. When driving, I hate being stuck behind a lorry, on my BM, I look forward to it.

Interesting and enjoyable video Ricky. Top speed of a vehicle in its basic form is when it is at maximum revs in top gear, that is if can get to this. What inhibits getting to this is air flow to the engine. This is overcome by a number of things, increasing rev capability (e.g sports bikes with a different engine design), larger cylinder capacity or other things such as a turbo or supercharger. However the exhaust resistance pressure is also important. Indeed just remove the exhaust altogether and the air flow increases dramatically, with a dramatic increase in power (F1 cars have effectively no exhaust). Cost is a lot of noise, not to mention a police chase. I think the list speed of an R1250R is 145 mph, but then the bike is designed not so much for top speed but low speed torque and acceleration which is what one really wants on a roadster. Would not be surprised you can give many sports bikes a run for their money on a public road. For public road use, you have made a good choice of bike. Hope I am not patronising.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Not at all Malcolm, in fact since this all came to light I have been researching exhaust down pipe diameters, scavenging, back pressure, pressure waves etc! It seems the ECU couldn't compensate for the sudden lack in back pressure and perhaps retadred the ignition but I'm only speculating. You are right this bike is all about performance on the road and not at the track - but even the road performance (i.e. low and midrange torque) suffered with the exhaust fitted but I was so enamoured with the noise I didn't notice! LIke I say in the video, it almost feels like I have a brand new bike so every cloud and all that 😊

Interesting video. I did think it was strange the bike was topping out at 120 on the track. I actually quite like the look of the OEM exhaust, I know it’s big but it kind of fits the chunkiness of the rest of the bike.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Hi George I'm so relieved to have sussed out this problem, I don't know how much longer it would have taken me if it wasn't for the track day! I do see the OEM exhaust in a different light now... it ain't pretty but the bike feels awesome with it fitted!

Well we live and learn Rikky it's a pain that ya cut the baffle in half, but hey if you have the performance ya want now does it matter I guess these days with more sophisticated electronics , it would appear that when ya change your exhaust ya need to put it on a computer to reset everything so as accommodate it nice one : )

I switched to straight tube open pipe Cobra slip on with a Harley Softail and lost midrange power but fitted a low cost DK Custom Products Thunder Torque Insert “lollipop” an inch into end of exhaust and recovered better power than OEM due to increased exhaust gas momentum…miraculous power benefit with all the open pipe exhaust sound!

@RikkyTang

Жыл бұрын

It's amazing how we are able to screw-up and then also improve the performance of our bikes! 😊

I thought it was strange that you preferred the R9T performance! Good work in getting to the bottom of the issue 👍 Glad I’ve kept my standard chrome cannon 😂

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I should have left well alone! I feel a bit foolish about the R nineT video now but you live and learn 😊

Interesting. I haven’t changed my R1250R’s exhaust though had considered the Akra. Maybe I’ll just leave well enough alone. Like many, I was surprised you were so taken by the R9T over the R…now it makes sense.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I recall the 1250R I test rode back in 2019 feeling as strong as my bike does now and it had the Akra (you can find the video if you search for "test ride" on my channel). Yeah I feel pretty silly now after the R nineT comparison... ah well I'll never stop learning haha!

@colberki

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang I was wondering about your top speed of about 120mph on track before you had to brake for the next corner. We look forward to you on the same track again and clocking higher top speed on the same stretch of track. I have the same chrome cannon on my RS. I love it. Bike is quiet which I like and performance is as advertised.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

@@colberki I'd love to get back there and have another go one day! The bike feels smoother and obviously more powerful now since I refitted the OEM can... when will I learn to leave things alone 😂

Lol - The chrome cannon :)

I'm interested in seeing what a ECU tune would do to the Leo Vince set up!! Great video, safe travels..

@RikkyTang

Жыл бұрын

I am considering an ECU flash, but it really depends on what I decide to do with the bike... it's a long story, but I am way ahead of where I should be with regards to mileage and my PCP schedule! I either have to not ride the bike so much this year, or accept that I'm going to take a hit on the future value of the bike and keep piling the miles on! If I take the second option then an ECU flash in on the cards :)

Having watched the video showing you installing the Leovince a couple of times now I think I have worked out what the issue is and it is not the end can at all. Take a look at the cover you fitted to protect the exhaust valve. You purchased it separately and then modified it to fit. What I suspect is that the cover was restricting the exhaust valve from opening all the way causing a restriction and smothering the engine. That would clearly explain the engines resistance to rev up. Just my two cents…

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I've ruled out that cover by refitting it a few days after I put the OEM exhaust back on. I needed to know if that might have been the cause of the problem. The bike still performed at full power with that cover back on. If it was the problem you can be sure I would have made a video about it, thanks for the civil comment 👍 P.S. you added this comment twice, once as a reply and once as a new comment.

I have a Remus 8 with the baffle on my R1250RS. I haven't done the comparison like you have, but not I think I should.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

With the baffle in you may be fine... but If you have thought to yourself "I'm sure the bike feels a bit rougher than it used to" or "I think it used to pull harder than this" then why not? You may be leaving power and torque on the table...

I’m thinking of putting a stubby exhaust on mine (ninja 1000SX).. but keeping the baffle in place.. but you’ve made me think twice now ..🤔🤔🤔😁😁😁

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I can understand that... it's certainly been an expensive lesson for me!

@dmandhelen

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang they don’t tell you that if you take out the baffle .. you will loose power !!! They all say that you don’t need a retune !!🤔🤔🤔..

It was very strange, when you mentioned comparable power between RNinet and R1250R in your previous video. I felt a bigger differrence when riding both engines. Now it is totally different. Glad you solve it. Do you plan to do a 5000 miles review of the bike?

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I wish I had understood the problem with my bike sooner! My bike feels amazing now that I have full power again 😍 I probably will do a long term review on my bike but I'm not sure at what point yet 😊

@RRRRefuelRideRace

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang Fine. This would be interesting to see.

I guess the numbers are there but I’m not convinced. Slip ons rarely change performance, they usually for cosmetic change. If put a full system on with decat then yes a new map is needed. But I can’t recall someone doing a remap just for a slip on. They usually just lighter than the standard oem exhaust and far smaller in size.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

If you heard how loud the bike was with the standard downpipes and no exhaust fitted I think you'd have second thoughts... the big OEM silencer is doing a lot of work to quiet the sound coming through the downpipes - I think (only speculation mind you) that the ECU could tell that something was not in spec anymore with the free breathing aftermarket exhaust and dialled back the power. As I said in the video I did the acceleration test with each exhaust four times (on the same evening); the average times speak for themselves. What I didn't say in the video that with the Leo Vince on, the bike does not lift the front wheel off the throttle in 1st gear. With the OEM exhaust back on, it will easily lift in 1st now and in 2nd too if roll off and then on the throttle. There is definitely something my bike doesn't like about that exhaust...

@rve_rider741

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang do you think it’s anything to do with the shiftcam engine? It’s made me think twice about mine now. I’ve put a aftermarket slip on, I haven’t noticed a change in power or top speed but I haven’t really been looking for it. But obviously mine the new s1000r so different engine etc. Just has made me think though. Always assumed slip ons do little for performance .

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

@@rve_rider741 This revelation has caught me by surprise too so sadly I can't say with any certainty whether it affects other bikes the same way. But having said that I'm inclined to think it was the difference in gas flow/back pressure that confused the ECU on my bike rather than anything to do with the shiftcam tech. I think with the 2nd gen S1000R that I had, there wasn't a huge increase in noise if you simply removed the silencer altogether so aftermarket end cans generally didn't need a remap unless you went for a decat/full system as well.... so you may be OK! But if the supplier of you end can specifically recommends a remap then chances are you will need one as the bike may not be performing at its best.

@rve_rider741

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang good point re the ecu, that makes sense. I have an Austin Racing, first one on the new model. They were fairly certain no remap required, only if was the full de cat system.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

@@rve_rider741 I think the problem is you're going to get different opinions on this from different people... if the bike feels great (and a new S1000R should feel great!) then you'll probably be fine. Just be a bit more sensitive to the bikes performance than I was!

I know on my S1000R BMW stated changing exhausts shouldn't need any ECU changes as the ECU will 'learn' what needs to be done. I didn't feel any difference in power when I installed a Black Widow tail pipe, apart from a lot better sound :) Gotta say, who thinks that an after market pipe will slow the bike down, bit of a bummer really. Not everyone has a local and cheap dyno ready to test. We live and learn

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Back in the old carburetted days I may have burnt my valves out by now so at least the bike did a better job of looking after itself than I did! Yeah I think the S1000 is a different case and the silencer doesn't make a lot of difference to the bike. If I hadn't sold the S1KR I would have had a tasty looking HP Corse end can on it by now 😁

Very interesting it made such a massive difference. Can the baffle be welded back together?

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Yep I was stunned after I did the first test run with the original exhaust back on the bike! The bike now picks up the front off the throttle in 1st gear (with traction control disabled) which it coudln't do with the Leo Vince fitted. It definitely needs a map/dyno time and then the bike would probably be OK. I think I'll be able to find someone to weld/tack the baffle back up and that might also be enough to make the bike work properly with that exhaust - I'll get to the bottom of it one day!

Really interesting video mate. I am surprised by the lack of power with just an end can on. Never had it on issue with any of my bikes when fitting one nor heard of any 1250 boxet engine issues when been fitted as well. Have other 1250 boxer engines suffered the same? Is it connected to Euro5? Great video as always, keep well.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I've been digging around on the internet and no one else seems to be complaining of a lack of power... but then again neither was I until the track day! Some folks got their 1200/1250 ECU flashed when fitting headers + end can but I can't seem to find anyone else with the exact same situation as me. I have no idea what caused the problem but when I get the DB killer welded back up I'll put the exhaust on again and see if the bike performs properly with the DB killer fitted. Good to hear from ya! Take care my friend 😊

@tailtidy8185

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang So strange mate, understand if full system and not flashed/mapped. Look forward to seeing if anything happens when you reinstall the , ahem, re-welded db killer in place! Just for interest, with the db removed can you see straight through the LV can? Keep well, you/your channel is superb.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

@@tailtidy8185 Thank you for your kind words, you're making me blush! I went into the shed and had a look down the pipe... there is a plate near the start of the exhaust with four or five holes in it and otherwise you can see straight through, but I think that sort of thing is fairly common in a link pipe. I also wanted to rule something else in or out... I originally fitted a used exhaust valve cover from a 1200GS because the OEM one wouldn't fit nicely with the new end can. I wondered if that was snagging the exhaust valve somehow so I refitted that cover and went for quick ride. It made no difference and the bike is still running happily at full power. The saga is To Be Continued!

@tailtidy8185

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang No problem, the channel is great mate, credit to you. Its a pity you can't access another aftermarket slip on and see what that does? A slip on shouldn't make such a difference. Look forward to the LV with DB. Be safe

@jeremypryke1468

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang Hi Rikky, I think that washer with the five holes in it is the problem. I fitted a Leo Vince system to a Fazer 600 and it lost its top end power. Turned out to be the washer with the holes in it, knocked it out and it was back to reving like it should. It was only a push fit and the link pipe kept in place.

I wonder if the can being made for the 1200 made the difference? Maybe smaller internal volume or outlet pipe diameter? It seems like BMW does a really good job of tuning performance right out of the gate, I just wish the can wasn’t so bright and heavy.

@RikkyTang

Жыл бұрын

I feel the same way you do! Ultimately I think the best solutions are from the likes of SC Project and Remus which are designed for the 1250. They cost more but are a lot less hassle the the route I took! Having said that, I like the SP Engineering Diabolous Oval end can I'm using now, but even with that I had to get my own DB Killer welded up to fit it... the one that comes with the pipe reduces the bikes power because its just designed to get the bike through noise tests.

The Germans magazines do very thorough reviews of their long-term test bikes and sometimes ask the manufacturers for pipes to test. Only Akrapovic consistently manage to get a better sound and a weight reduction, while maintaining top end power and keeping within the noise limit. Very often the other brands will lose between 2 and 8 BHP at the top end, where the average road rider does not use frequently. Your R1250R seems to have lost 15 or more BHP judging from the acceleration times.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I estimated 15-20hp down in the video. However I may be closing in on a reason for this... another chap in one of my comments told me to remove a washer that fits in between the link pipe and the silencer... I never thought to check if it was removable or not but it is! A retest is coming soon!

Fantastic video ..!!!! Thank you sooo much !!! Very enlightening!!! Unfortunately we get fed so much rubbish from the motorcycle “INDUSTRY “… that we actually forget the truth !!! And today you told the truth !!!! Well done 👍.. PS… you might be right about the baffle though .!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I think that the bike may work properly with an ECU flash but I don't want to spend loads of money finding out! If I can get hold of a complete baffle I will put the can back on and do another acceleration test 😊

Very good explanation. Will you keep the stock exhaust?

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I think the stock exhaust will stay on for quite some time... I can't afford a different exhaust or an ECU flash/dyno time.

@RRRRefuelRideRace

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang Aha, OK. Did you check may 4 latest videos?

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

@@RRRRefuelRideRace Not as yet my man but I will 😊

@RRRRefuelRideRace

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang Ok, Thanks.

Been reading that when the db-killers are removed, a remapping is necessary.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Som manufacturers say it "may be necessary" to remap for best performance but to be honest I just never noticed the power drop off until the track day and by then I had the end can on for a couple of months.

Interesting video my feeling is the engine was running weak having little or no back pressure my Bike came with the Akrapovic so not sure how that would preform on the track.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I think maybe the ignition was retarded by the ECU because of the lack of back pressure like you say. I could kick myself for not noticing sooner. I think the OEM Akra would be fine - from what I remember from my first test ride on an R1250R back in 2019 the bike felt as strong as mine does now (and that had the Akra).

Well that sucks!! now Im afraid to install my long awaited Arrow pipe (9 weeks to get to my doorstep)

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I suspect that the Arrow exhaust with DB killer in place will likely be fine... my thinking is that it was the missing the DB killer that messed up the fuelling. I'll get my DB killer welded up at some point and I'll see if the bike works properly with that fitted into the Leo Vince.

And you did mention on your install video that the Leo that you have is not listed for the R1250R ?

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Yep you're right - I based my buying decision on anecdotal evidence that other folks have fitted aftermarket R1200 end cans to their R1250's (and vice versa) without a problem. Seems like I'm the exception to the rule!

@lennykibbs260

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang Im gonna go ahead with the install and try with and W/O db killer, afraid I'm not going to like the Db killer in- If there is a noticeable drop in power with it out- then I guess I'll consider a bren tune, kind of counters my idea of saving some money with the arrow pipe versus SC or Ackro

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

@@lennykibbs260 Make sure you do pay attention to throttle response at all revs and smoothness of the engine... my bike feels smoother now that I have the OEM can back on compared to the Leo Vince without the DB killer.

Private race track...gotcha lolzz 🤣😉👊

Go find someone to weld it...the baffle that is, probably only cost around £20

@RikkyTang

2 жыл бұрын

I've made a couple of update videos since this one came out... basically I threw £40 at the problem and bought a replacement DB killer... However the real problem turned out to be a round metal plate with five holes in it in the exhaust near the link pipe and that was restricting gas flow. Once I got rid of that plate the bike was maybe 95% there performance-wise, but the bike was now too loud with that bottom plate removed, even with the full DB killer. So I'm back to the OEM silencer but I've got full power so I don't mind too much and I've (maybe) learned my lesson!

@grenphelps7455

2 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang I used to have a 2018 GS Rallye and changed to a GPR can and I have to say that it's was much quicker with the GPR can, but after a few months it was doing my head in with the noise, so ended up fitting the stock one, I've now got a ktm 1290 super duke gt with a Akrapovic end can and it sounds amazing...some brands like bmw and Triumph seem to be filtering out peoples choices, while many other brands are still encouraging people to do their own thing....

Yeah sorry mate but I call bullshit. Did you have the correct Leo Vince on? I suspect that you have used the Leo Vince designed for a R1200R. Please confirm…

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

That’s hilarious that you call me a bullshitter and then ask “please confirm…” 🤣 You can confirm it for yourself here in the fitting video (which is linked with a card in *this* video at the 38 second mark) kzread.info/dash/bejne/l6mOqLyFqdCdqsY.html

@Kthirteenhundred

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang so quite clearly state in the video link you sent me that the exhaust was NOT designed for the R1250R and was actually designed for the R1200R. So you could just have confirmed that but obviously that would have been way to easy. So let me get this right, you fitted an exhaust that was not designed for your bike and now you are surprised by the fact that it does not increase the performance of your bike? Don’t be cheapskate mate. Go and buy the correct slip on.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kthirteenhundred By the way you missed the written description on *this* video, where I state “Now I know that the exhaust was designed for the 1200 not the 1250, but other people had fitted 1200 exhausts to their 1250's seemingly without problems.” Maybe you should have read that before you started. So I made it clear in both videos - and descriptions form part of the videos - what the deal was with this exhaust and you think I need to apologise? You’re the one who missed the information I freely provided and is having a hissy fit over it. You’re way off base. Also, I didn’t do this for performance. Feel free to not watch any more of my videos, there’s plenty more out there to choose from, all the best 👍

@Kthirteenhundred

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang Having watched the video showing you installing the Leovince a couple of times now I think I have worked out what the issue is and it is not the end can at all. Take a look at The cover you fitted to protect the exhaust valve. You purchased it separately and then modified it to fit. What I suspect is that the cover was restricting the exhaust valve from opening all the way causing a restriction and smothering the engine. That would clearly explain the engines resistance to rev up. Just my two cents…

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kthirteenhundred I've ruled out that cover by refitting it a few days after I put the OEM exhaust back on. I needed to know if that might have been the cause of the problem. The bike still performed at full power with that cover back on. If it was the problem you can be sure I would have made a video about it, thanks for the civil comment 👍

Leave the standard exhaust on it, problem solved.

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think I probably will, lesson learned 👍

So not so speed demon, eh? I think the whole slip-on market is a bit of a tostesterone driven scam. People seem to have the urge to personalise their bikes in a way they also do with a house: Don't think about it but just jank the kitchen out, even if the old one is perfect. A whole market is depending on that cliché approach. In technical terms: Every exhaust change needs a remapping! A more open exhaust will make the air run through easier and thus lead to a leaner mixture. Slipping another can on and doing nothing else can even lead to extra wear and burnt valves because of higher temperatures in the combustion chambers. Furthermore: "Tuning" exhausts rarely perform better then stock ones anyway. At best they add 2 or 3 hp. Most lessen performance, even after remapping. Just think with your brains and your purse, not with your willy! About that DB-killer: Assuming it is alu it can be welded for a few bob. Otherwise a few crossbraces with rivets will do the job. It might then however become more silent then the "stock" Vince and you do not want that, now do you? :-)

@RikkyTang

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong in wanting to personalise your possessions but yeah when companies see way to make money out of you they will do! In my shed I'm very much in the mindset of "lets fit this thing and if there is a problem lets try to fix it". While the instructions do say "to obtain best results please check carburation of your machine for your specific machine condition and climate circumstances", I just didn't notice any problems with the performance until the track day so I was happy to save the money. My willy keeps getting me into trouble! 😂

@marcbrasse747

3 жыл бұрын

@@RikkyTang There is nothing wrong with personalising stuff indeed. If one does one should however do it well and in ones own style. Everybody with enough money can buy ultra expensive, run of the mill aftermarket stuff. Please have a look at my own rebuilds here: brassee.com/motorcycles.html. :-)