If you want to hear me walk someone who hasn't played Bioshock through the full story - we just covered it on Lore Dump and will be doing 2, Infinite, and BaS soon! 👇 kzread.info/dash/bejne/gXhlm9KMfMeqndI.html&ab_channel=LoreDump Also, thanks again to bestgameprice.net for sponsoring this video - I'm not kidding about saving money. I just got The Quarry for a tenner cheaper than I would buying it through Steam.

@spookydood5500

Жыл бұрын

Damn, I have to say, that site is great. Was going to buy Prey on steam for 40$, just got it on Epic Games for 10$. Wouldn’t have ever known. Thanks.

@MattSpoon07

Жыл бұрын

Do you people not realize that nature and the Universe is objectivist? Does the Universe care about the life that can't survive on it's own? Why I don't agree with Objectivism as a whole, your counter arguments are just bleeding heart naive nonsense. People don't care. Forcing them to pay for welfare doesn't make them care. It causes civil war and conflict, because Nature itself is objectivist. There are homeless people on the streets because Government could never possibly help them all, many of them don't want to be helped and people don't care about them. Baby birds don't fall out of nests. The mother pushes them out. The mother makes a decision not to waste resources on a baby that won't make it. That's why there is homeless people. Old animals don't get welfare, they die. Your philosophy is nonsense. It goes against nature itself, it is bred out of complacency and privilege. You feel guilty for your wealth and privilege. You don't want to work hard. Life is hard. Life is tragic. Human life is not special. You have no right to live or be comfortable or be fed. All those things must be earned from life itself, and nothing gets a free ride and everything dies. Now, what don't you understand about not taking from one person to give to another person because your feelings are hurt when you see it? When you don't see it, you couldn't care less, but when you know about it, White Europeans like yourself feel real bad and want to force communism and socialism on the rest of us when you could clean and prepare a chicken to feed starving people if you had to to save their lives.

@kaimerry1587

Жыл бұрын

still overpriced lol

@ceruleanangel2364

Жыл бұрын

idk i think the floating islands is fake ive seen people say we gonna make futuristic floating islands for 10 years

@dabtican4953

Жыл бұрын

Your lifecycle simulation reminds me of the Shandifications of Fallout

the more i hear ayn rand talk the more i understand why people stereotype her fans as edgy teenagers trying to sound smart

@GldnClaw

Жыл бұрын

You've listened to 2 hours of an E-celeb give Wikipedia-tier analysis of a game. You are invoking "At this moment, I am euphoric" levels of comedy, mate.

@gobogoo2329

Жыл бұрын

@@GldnClaw das a lotta characters just to say "no, u"

@sergnb0

Жыл бұрын

@@GldnClaw Case in point.

@josheldridge8546

Жыл бұрын

@@GldnClaw ayn rand will fuck you just as much as she wanted to fuck Alan Greenspan, dork.

@gwell66v2AnimeReviews

Жыл бұрын

@@GldnClaw And you just got indignant and offended at someone making a reasonable comment in the comment section of that E-celebs video. One of you praised the in-depth research and month+ of hard work that the video maker put in. The other is you, dismissing all that and getting upset for seemingly no reason. (of course, if I had to guess, the reason would be that you subscribe wholly to the philosophy being criticized and lack the objectivity to do any more than lazily dismiss everything as "Wikipedia tier analysis" bc that's easier than challenging your own beliefs)

I think allowing the player to decide Sander Cohen's fate is a great hint at the fact that Jack is a mind-controlled puppet. Every time he's killed a major character up to now, he was instructed to. When the voice on the radio is taken away, he is free to choose.

@jackmrsich3178

Жыл бұрын

I didn’t even know you could kill him. I just took the Plasmid and left.

@TheMysteryDriver

Жыл бұрын

@@jackmrsich3178 first play through of any game just go full evil. Shoot every single person you can to see what happens.

@gamesthatshouldbeframed3760

Жыл бұрын

I did it for the trophy, because up until then Cohen gave me no trouble whatsoever

@urthofthenewsun8465

Жыл бұрын

@@gamesthatshouldbeframed3760 Asking people "Did you kill Cohen or not?" is a more interesting question that "harvest or save?" imo, I also like to ask if they killed him in Fort Frolic or Olympus Heights

@callmepsycho3132

Жыл бұрын

@@jackmrsich3178 i didn’t know you could kill him, I just bodied him on accident

no one ever mentions the fact that Andrew Ryan was designed to look like Walt Disney, who as one of the last things he did was design the city of the future, EPCOT

@George_M_

Жыл бұрын

And the best part of that was EPCOT's perversion into a park (thank god, it was an objectivist dystopia) much as Rapture degenerates

@s0nnasauras630

Жыл бұрын

Did u kno Disney is actually going to go through with Walt's idea ? There's already Disney houses for sale it's pretty fucking creepy

@wark-7838

Жыл бұрын

He also is Howard Hughes, who became a paranoid recluse

@SeruraRenge11

Жыл бұрын

Walt wasn't anywhere near an objectivist, he was extremely patriotic towards the US government. Here's the thing, Walt was a futurist, EPCOT was supposedly to hopefully be the model for the new type of city that avoided many of the problems that existed with urban sprawl of the time. Keep in mind that when he was alive, cities in the US were generally a lot worse designed than they are now. In fact many European cities today have tried to remake themselves to be something similar to Walt's vision, the whole "walkable cities" idea. Was Walt a little bit up its own ass? Yeah, but he genuinely believed in technology's ability to make life better for man, as misguided as he was in it. He didn't want to use technology to get away from all those terrible evil governments that just want to take everything away from what you've EARNED like Ryan thinks.

@shcdemolisher

Жыл бұрын

Yeah he had a bright vision of the future through the use of technology. Like with the original Star Trek series, optimism for the future that we will eventually get there, despite all the pain it will take. Sadly by modern view points they seem more like dreams that are impossible to achieve from too many issues, that I’m sure you can easily list on your own. Again, that’s by modern view point of in the moment. In the future? It might be possible, but it’s too chaotic to hope for it to happen right now.

this is my first time hearing Ayn Rand speak at length. She sounds like a remarkably eloquent toddler

@MontyZander

Жыл бұрын

Holy shit hello Mother’s Basement I am a big fan!

@mothersbasement

Жыл бұрын

@@MontyZander dude, given the quality of writing, research, and analysis in your vids, I take that as a massive compliment!

@Daedriclord23

Жыл бұрын

@@mothersbasement It is so awesome to see two amazing content creators in the comments. Love ya both. Just saw your newest cult anime vid. Freaking masterclass in shade thrown and entertainment there.

@whade62000

Жыл бұрын

It's easy to poke fun of influencers when they aren't suddenly running your government. At which stage a lot of the same people fold to "well if she's in power she must be doing it right!" thinking. Way too many present day politicians to use as example who also sound like toddlers.

@Silenthero66

10 ай бұрын

Ayn Rand was infinitely more intelligent than any of you.

"No Gods or Kings, Only Man" hanging beneath a massive statue of the creator of Rapture posed as if he is some divine ruler is the most on the nose & tone deaf choice, and it's a perfect encapsulation of why the philosophy and Rapture failed. The whole project is dedicated to people who don't like other authority, just their own, and then are surprised that when you get a bunch of rulers siloed into a single glass bubble with no one to rule, that they would inevitably turn on one another. It's a perfect move XD.

@katzea.a7880

Жыл бұрын

Despite the unhinged original sentiment of the phrase I utter it time to time and replace "man" with "people" so it starts sounding as "no one should be above or below someone" at least in my head. Sometimes I feel like this whole game is a mayor thesis against Ayn Rand's line of thought and libertarianism in general

@triplehelix3207

Жыл бұрын

@@katzea.a7880 ken levine gave an interview in 2007 where he outlined that, although it is laced with critique on Rand's philosophy, the series is about human nature and its capacity to twist what was pure into pure horror. Rapture built on libertarian values and Fontaine twisted it into a tyranny because Ryan wasnt the pure hero of Ayn's stories.

@davidnotonstinnett

Жыл бұрын

Which is why the libertarians will never win on their own terms. They might become an influential faction in a wider conservative movement, but as a ruling philosophy in of itself, it is flawed in its contradiction. No gods or masters, except everyone, but not in the Commie way, but in the way that you have to listen to your boss because he says so….

@dabtican4953

Жыл бұрын

@@katzea.a7880 Rand disliked libertarianism.

@filthyshoggoth

Жыл бұрын

@@dabtican4953 You need to be specific. Americans tend to think libertarianism is from the right.

The emotional extremes I would feel if my boss told me to read Ayn Rand for our new project, and then told us we were deconstructing the philosophy behind it.

@ajflink

Жыл бұрын

It would be equally as unhealthy to read the Necronomicon or Act 2 and/or 3 of The King in Yellow.

@copsuicide

8 ай бұрын

​@@ajflinkthe necronimicon reads like the instructions for a microwave oven

@ajflink

8 ай бұрын

@@copsuicide Yes, one that demands you to first run it by sticking your head in it and somehow allowing you to survive.

I really like how Ryan hates "the parasite" but at the end of rapture a parasite (the Adam slugs) ruled the city more or less

@marocat4749

4 ай бұрын

Just likes ayn rand as all her talk ended happily taking social public support

@Setherina

3 ай бұрын

Even more fitting is that the people of rapture were living as parasites off of the slugs.

@Hugo-MLM

Ай бұрын

and is part of the bourgeoisie, lol

@zzxp1

25 күн бұрын

I think is kinda obvious that the true parasites are the council members including Ryan. All of them leech from a system designed to only favor favor the people on top.

Rand claims to pursue self-interest and yet she's dead. Curious.

@jackwyattwyatt2220

Жыл бұрын

And she lived the last year's of her life accepting welfare she wanted to deny to everyone else.

@samuelstensgaard4828

Жыл бұрын

🤔

@teresazbikowska7094

Жыл бұрын

What?

@Dong_Harvey

10 ай бұрын

​@@teresazbikowska7094she died years ago, from lung cancer, which she denied was caused by her smoking cigarettes. Also she was on welfare. Curiouser and curiouser

@MannoMax

9 ай бұрын

​@@Dong_HarveyNew unisex toilet unlocked

A good twist is one that recontextiluses the story up to this point and makes you view events which you have already experienced in a different light, it does not have to be surprising but it does have to change how you interpret the story

@Dong_Harvey

10 ай бұрын

Like when Big Smoke sold his homies out, supposedly to buy mor hamburgers?!

@magnusm4

10 ай бұрын

Like helping a kind character, knowing that he will become corrupted later makes replaying him him feel much different.

@kaisarfaust5625

4 ай бұрын

I think a good twist is one you could have (technically) seen coming but changes how that (part of the story) can be read - think Bruce Willis in Sixth Sense, the Joker twist, or the BG3 twist.

The thing is, if you dig into Rand's personal life, you discover that for all of her talk of rational self-interest, she couldn't maintain those views in her own personal life. Her inner circle was very much a cult in design, she justified her affair with Nathaniel Brandon as two titans of intellect engaging in a consensual union, never mind what her husband and Brandon's partner had to say, and when Brandon himself sought to pursue a new intimate relationship, Rand disowned him from her circle and dehumanised him to her followers. The queen of self-interest only cared about self-interest when it was hers and hers alone.

@SeanCMonahan

Жыл бұрын

No, no, you misunderstand! Rand's primary virtue is not self-interest; instead, the primary virtue is Ayn Rand-interest.

@OmegaFire11

Жыл бұрын

Nobody is coerced unless force is used, according to rand. So she did nothing wrong, unless she used force, obviously.

@stevenguitink5947

Жыл бұрын

@@OmegaFire11 Except she did. Not physical force but emotional manipulation and gaslighting, much like cults do. And even still, that doesn't excuse her actions and the consequences of her actions, not matter how she could justify it. Her affair drove her husband to alcoholism and Brandon's former partner to a nervous breakdown. Multiple former friends were cut off from her support just because they disagreed with her. And if you want to track it back to Rand's self-interests, she basically died alone because very few people wanted anything to do with her.

@johnq4061

Жыл бұрын

hoar

@GabrielGarcia-co9qx

Жыл бұрын

@@OmegaFire11 She entered into a martial context and violated it and another’s. She fails by her own ridiculous standards

The thing about Vita-chambers is they can turned off in options before you start the game, but lore-wise it’s because Jack is related to Andrew Ryan who set them to revive only Ryan’s DNA. Also this is why Ryan was so furious with Jolene since she basically gave away the key to Ryan’s legacy.

@jasonhasenfus6090

11 ай бұрын

Wait if the vita chambers work on Ryan’s dna then would Ryan be revived if he died or no.

@AnakinFury

10 ай бұрын

@@jasonhasenfus6090Yes but in game, on top of him orchestrating his own death you find the Vita-chamber in his office deactivated (by Ryan), likely because Ryan did want things to end.

Andrew Ryan being modeled after Walt Disney and named after Ayn Rand is just incredible

There's an aspect of Andrew Ryan's character that I feel is often overlooked in this game and can be expressed by one simple fact: He never left Rapture. If he wanted to, he absolutely could and other men would have long before Rapture reached this level of decay. But Ryan didn't. He couldn't, as his pride wouldn't let him. Because abandoning Rapture meant admitting that it was a failure, and was always doomed to failure. It would mean that his pride had done nothing but waste money and kill people. And that's what Rapture ultimately is, stripped of all it's glitz, glory, and philosophical pretensions: A monument to the pride of Andrew Ryan. His hubris was such that anything he didn't like wasn't just bad, but morally evil and reprehensible, and anything he liked was the absolute holiest of holies. That's why he treated things like taxes and charity as morally reprehensible actions, as he didn't like giving money to others and not getting anything back in return. It is why he put things like the idea that a man should be entitled to the results of their own work and the great chain of industry on a pedestal, since he liked being able to keep what he'd earned and liked things that made him money. If that sounds incredibly immature, congratulations, you're right. Andrew Ryan, stripped to the core, is just a great big baby shouting "I Don't Wanna" every time anyone tells him to do something he doesn't like. In a normal adult, this would simply be sad. In a man with Andrew Ryan's wealth and power... well, you get something like Rapture. To other people, their likes and dislikes would just remain the things they liked or didn't, but Andrew Ryan, with that godlike ego, pride, and hubris, elevated his own opinions into moral absolutes. The only god Andrew Ryan recognized was himself. Thus, to admit that Rapture was a failure and going back to the surface would mean admitting he was wrong, and gods can't be wrong.

@jbktpl1245

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, that definitely fits a prideful individual like Ryan.

@jackielana9993

4 ай бұрын

eloquently put!! I enjoyed reading this!!

@garrettsattem4799

4 ай бұрын

Hell, he burned down his own perfectly good private forest when the feds tried to make it a national park. Throwing that kind of If-I-can’t-have-it-then-No-one-can temper tantrum told me everything I needed to know about his psychology.

@jbktpl1245

4 ай бұрын

@@garrettsattem4799 Oh yeah, he did so that

@pmester228

4 ай бұрын

It's pretty ironic how someone who supposedly valued free will to the point of screaming "A man chooses, a slave obeys!" as his final words, Ryan had taken everyone's agency away and made them into an army of drug fiends just to hold off Fontaine. Because it was always about him. If he allowed dissent, that was because striking it down would mean admitting he was wrong. But if it got real bad, he did it anyway, and to a much greater damage.

Her shooting that woman down says it all. Didn't even hear what she had to say at the slightest hint that she wasn't going to blindly agree with her.

@morgantrias3103

5 ай бұрын

it truly makes it look like she can's defend her ideology against ANY question if she doesn't even need to know what the question is before she has to reject it.

@UnicornStorm

3 ай бұрын

came off as an comepltely emotional reaction. Maybe she was pissed off because the woman opened with "I agredd with your philosophy but now I'm more educated", which could be interpreted as an insult to Rands philosophy

I somewhat remember a quote about Atlas Shrugged. It went like this: "The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a unrealistic tale that will leave those who are taken by it childish and unprepared for life. The other contains orcs." Even without knowing about what Atlas Shrugged was about, I felt the burn. Now, I can better appreciate the comparison.

@marocat4749

4 ай бұрын

I love that quote, and reliefed the joke is lord of the rings is actually valuable and goddamn fantasy deserves a bbetter rep :( not badly written erotica disguised as fantasy, and fanfics are fine just, can we call soccermom porrn soccermom porn and accept its fine.

@Mit852

4 ай бұрын

Did you actually read atlas shrugged or are you just taking your professor's word for it?

@aidancalfee2634

2 ай бұрын

Found the millennial

It's a HUGE mistake to kill Sander Cohen at Fort Frolic. You miss out on running into him at his flat in Olympus Heights. Where the two splices are dancing he will he will greet you again and tell you not to disturb them then you grab the ammo under the record player causing it to fall over and he gets pissed and comes out of his bedroom through a locked door and you fight and kill him. Upstairs in his bedroom is a weapon upgrade station. You can't get into his bedroom and this cool event never plays out if you had killed him earlier. You still get the achievement for killing him and you can loot his body for the key to the chest back at Fort Frolic giving you a reason to actually revisit that area which is probably the best level imo. Also you can take a picture of his body just like his disciples he had you kill lol I'm surprised this wasn't in the video as it's one of the coolest little things in the game.

@jbktpl1245

6 ай бұрын

Cool, didn't know you could do that

@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth

3 ай бұрын

I can't recall the details, but I saw a fantastic breakdown of why you killing Cohen and taking a picture of his body is exactly what he wants you to do. It's the last, most vital part of his masterpiece.

I find it interesting that Andrew Ryan is so against religion, yet he names many of his areas in Rapture after ancient mythological gods. Not to mention Rapture itself being a religious idea.

@Treblaine

8 ай бұрын

You're confused by how many atheists object to public religious displays because that is their tax money being used to establish a religion. It's not like they're putting up monuments to the 10 commandments as revered religious monuments. What is in Bioshock looks similar but it's completely different, this is blasphemous misuse of religious iconography just as a style or motif, it's treating religion in a flippant way as if you're referencing Shakespeare. To call a genetic concoction to mutate your body to shoot lighting "Adam and Eve" is something NO Christian would EVER do! It's only something that someone who knows the story and wants to use it as a literary allusion would call it. It's just a pop-culture reference to them like Frankenstein or Dracula. And especially references to "dead" religions like the pantheon of ancient Greek and Roman gods, nobody believes in any of that any more. And if someone DID believe in Artemis they'd object to Apartments being named after her, they'd want a temple or shrine dedicated to her.

@MCArt25

8 ай бұрын

That's part of the art deco theme

I thought they gave Atlas a southern Georgian accent and thats why they didnt trust him. And it was an ironic twist when Augustas Saintclair had that accent and was a good guy the whole time

@MontyZander

Жыл бұрын

Yes yes yes - you’re totally right and I don’t know WHY I thought otherwise! My bad!

@adster199

Жыл бұрын

@@MontyZander you have multi hour long video essays that have a great narrative and visual prowess. You’d need your own set of beta testers to squash out all the “bugs.” A 99% is still an A+

If there's two things that I love, they'd be analytical video essays, and taking the piss out of Ayn Rand and Objectivism.

@galaxy-wg1lf

10 ай бұрын

This is a good wisdom

@GumMagnum

9 ай бұрын

so true fellow redditor here are your updoots!

@Satherian

8 ай бұрын

​@@GumMagnum Oof, maybe try a different stale joke?

@GumMagnum

8 ай бұрын

@@Satherian Maybe try thinking for yourself, wait sorry you get a 404 brain not found error

@Satherian

8 ай бұрын

@@GumMagnum Okay, there you go, that was pretty good

Isn't it weird that Rand was such a railway fan, while her modern successors hate public transport with a passion

@Matt_History

11 ай бұрын

Imagine being so stupid you don't know the different between freight and private rail and public transit. 90% of rail lines are privately owned

@uriahvoltairealt

11 ай бұрын

Actually if you read her non fiction she's extremely critical of the railroads and the political corruption that led to their monopolies.

@Synthonym

10 ай бұрын

@@uriahvoltairealt Except her argument is that the fuckery that led to regulation in the first place should have been allowed to continue, consequences be damned

@GumMagnum

9 ай бұрын

"she wrote about railways? LOL her fans must obviously hate public transit" Least insane non sequiteur from clueless ayn rand critic

@gwendolinkirkegaard1812

9 ай бұрын

@@GumMagnum lol where did I criticise Rand in this comment? Also you completely misinterpreted my comment, which does not make any argument at all for anything. If there is not even an argument made, there logically cannot be a non sequitur

One thing that struck me looking back on the infamous twist with Andrew Ryan is how hypocritical he ends up being. His entire philosophical shtick is the freedom to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants for whatever reason, but look at where he is. The most powerful, most important, most special man in Rapture has been reduced to living in his locked office because if he steps outside the citizens will rip him limb from limb. Forget calling Jack (and the player by extension) a slave for following instructions, Ryan's actions have stripped himself of all agency. No one is going to let him leave when he's tied his own blood to the function of the city. No one is going to forgive his crimes against them. His quest for freedom at all costs has caused him to become a prisoner of his own creation; his only choice left the method of his self immolation and how many people that takes with him. At least as the player we still have the ability to act, even if the direction of our actions comes from an external source. We can still succeed, within the bounds set by the game. I don't know if that's an intentional but it is an interesting contrast that the enslaved Jack winds up with a significantly happier ending without ever throwing off his shackles than Ryan, who succeeded in becoming his own man, but failed to do anything valuable with that freedom.

@romulusnuma116

Жыл бұрын

It's pretty clean it's intentional I have no idea what the game would be if it wasn't

@trequor

Жыл бұрын

He failed because objectivism is an impossible standard for a human being. He cared more about his ideology than he did about himself. He cared more about Rapture, in his sick twisted way, than about his own wellbeing. He destroys both in the end because obsession is unhealthy lol

@ninjacatsif2135

Жыл бұрын

Rand was a hypocrit too. And in very similar ways.

@paulpower9959

Жыл бұрын

Free market capitalist doesn’t like when the free market doesn’t work for him, shock

@TheMysteryDriver

Жыл бұрын

@@ninjacatsif2135 that's BS. People like to go "oh she took social security!" But she paid into it. Just cause she disagreed with it doesn't mean she shouldn't get what her taxes paid for.

Having just finished replaying the games...like a few minutes before making this comment, one thing I want to mention is the final few levels. You think it goes on too long, but replaying it...the only thing that feels truly tacked on is the escort mission/museum level, at least to me. For the whole of this game, Atlas has been described as Ryan's nemesis. Even more than Fontaine, it was Atlas who pushed back against Ryan, and in the end, it was Atlas who killed him finally, through the weapon that was the player, and the plans and plots of so many others that had been setup. And then Atlas falls, and Fontaine rises...and yet, he's a failure. He couldn't overthrow Ryan, not on his own, and you see why throughout the apartment level...he's not very good at any of this. I mean, think about the con he was trying to pull here. He was trying to mimic BEING one of the elite, trying to be a captain of industry, one that rivaled Ryan himself. And yet everyone, from Ryan and Tenenbaum, down to Suchong and McDonagh saw right through him, and pegged him from the word go. The thing was...they didn't care who or what he was, until he started to disrupt things. And he did none of that, until it came to ADAM itself. Basically, his whole con would have been pointless without it, as there's no way he could have made any of this work without that, and in the end, he couldn't even succeed at that. Heck, going farther ATLAS was a failure. The thing that brought the city down had nothing to do with him in the end. Oh sure, he helped you finish it all off, but in the end, RYAN was the one to take down Rapture, Atlas/Fontaine was just the last guy standing, and where Ryan held onto the remains of the city for a full year, A/F didn't even make it a day, even with all the control he had. And why? Because in the end, he's just not a smart guy. It's obvious that most of what he does with you AS Atlas was planned out by others. Heck, going back, why does Tenenbaum not kill you when you run into her with the Little Sister at the end of Medical? She could have, she's got the high ground, and seemingly a pretty good gun, plus she knows your powers and has at least some command of the other little ones, little ones who can literally rip the ADAM out of your body. That would have put the kink right in Atlas' bum. But she doesn't, because you can be useful to her too, and she's hoping you will be. So in the end, the scheme only keeps going because it has the possibility of benefitting her, otherwise you'd just be another splicer to the good doctor, someone to be put down. Going forward a bit, once the script is run through, once Ryan is gone, 'Atlas' turns into 'Fontaine' but he doesn't just change his voice. His whole vocabulary changes, and not for the better. Atlas sounds like a working joe who's trying to understand the weird ass things around him. Fontaine? to him it's magic. He even describes the mental levers in your head as a 'spell' for goodness sakes, after talking about how he's the one who wrote your memories...but it's obvious from his wording he wrote the script, but has no idea how it was made reality. That's why we need the level past Ryan...and could drop the third and go straight to a boss fight from the second level past him. We need to see how badly Fontaine actually was at planning this out. Sure, he's a good actor, but he's a terrible director. Even the freaked in the head can see straight through him...heck Peach Wilkins and Sander Cohen seem to know exactly who 'Atlas' is. When you get right down to it, everyone does, save maybe Ryan himself, and that's only because Ryan doesn't care WHO he is, he's paranoid and wants him dead, just like anyone else who stands in his way. Meanwhile, the process of creating the Big Daddies and Little Sisters needs to be there to peel away the last layer of 'magic' that remains, to show that even the processes that seem fantastical in this world, are just another result of science and immorality taken to the most extreme levels. Mind, the escort mission sucks, and yeah, some of that is the fish eye stuff. I honestly thing, without that, this would have been a much better thing. Heck, do with the rest of the suit, and maybe even the voice changer, what the body suit does. Give Jack bonuses as he slips into it. The voice changer means his moan 'deactivates' security. Boots give him heavier footsteps, but prevent staggering, etc. Basically make every part of becoming a big daddy give you some bonus. Even the helmet, when you slip it on, your view diminishes, but do something like, he increases the damage by highlighting enemies or something. If you did all that, giving the player a power boost just before the end, it might come across as one final moment of power, before the boss.

@gino456123789

Жыл бұрын

That's the best part about Fontaine is that in the end he isn't really a smart guy. He's so narcissistic he can't even see that almost everyone sees through his plans and that he only has Jack to do anything he wants. Then in an ironic twist when he tries to discard Jack his plan lasts a little while before Jack is able to pulverize him.

@IlNamelessKinglI

Жыл бұрын

Doesnt turning into a big daddy at the end give you damage resistence or am i tripping? Its been a long time since ive played Bioshock.

@SageofStars

Жыл бұрын

@@IlNamelessKinglI The suit is the only part that does anything, but you aren't wrong, it gives a small boost, 25% to damage resistance from all sources. If the Boots, Helmet, and Pheromones did something too, I think a lot more people would enjoy it, as I said, a nice power trip, then game end.

@greenaum

Жыл бұрын

Tenenbaum surely knows who you are, since she created you. Perhaps she doesn't tell you that, so as not to disrupt the spell. She only un-messes your brain for you after you've killed Ryan, fulfilled your mission. She has compassion for you but she's not gonna jeopardise the plan. Yes the escort mission BITES! Stupid helmet can't see where you're going... they could simply have dropped the view-limiting effect, perhaps the lenses mean you get a full view or something. The suit needn't have changed your attributes, you're fine as you are, and used to playing with Jack. You don't need extra power at that point! You're loaded up with plasmids, and you're a two-year-old 6 foot tall genetic freak who's a good enough shot to have wiped out dozens of splicers. If they'd given you extra power, they'd just have to have made Fontaine tougher to balance it out, and there's just no point when the existing gameplay has already been balanced well. The changed voice doesn't deactivate security, but the pheromones make the Little Sisters want to help you, so same difference. And, again, if they deactivated security, they'd just have to throw more splicers at you to compensate, so why bother?

@IlNamelessKinglI

Жыл бұрын

@@greenaum I remember there was an option in the settings that disabled the "helmet vision" once you turned in a big daddy. Or atleast, limited the problem a bit.

The thing that gets me about Atlas Shrugged, and I'm glad that it gets handled in Bioshock, is that there's no real mention of crime and punishment. It is just assumed that everyone who lives in Galt's Gulch is a perfectly law-abiding citizen, that there would be no theft, murder, or violation of the main laws of Galt's Gulch. As if the wealthy industrialists, the artists, and all the rest are physically incapable of crime. Even though, realistically, you don't get that rich without doing some very dirty things. Enter Frank Fontaine, who is essentially a combination of a career criminal and the modern capitalist businessman. He doesn't care about the laws, the rules, or the philosophy of Rapture. No, what he wants is to get all the money, or get all the Adam in this case. He'll lie, exploit, and deceive, all for the sake of doing so. He starts as a smuggler, then becomes a businessman once he gets enough cash that he becomes a threat and gets taken down, he takes on the role of a revolutionary to take down Ryan and become the king of Rapture. But no matter what role he was playing, Fontaine was always the same greedy, selfish monster. Where Andrew Ryan is essentially just a rich jerk who doesn't want to pay taxes and do whatever he wants that hides his greed and selfishness by dressing it up with a philosophy that just so happens to say taxes are bad and he should do as he likes, Fontaine is a much darker version of the multimillionaire. Where Ryan wants to build a kingdom for himself where he makes the rules, Fontaine will gleefully burn that kingdom to ashes to make all the money. Fontaine is essentially the reality of modern capitalism hitting Ryan's objectivist utopia in the same way a 100 mph fastball would hit a sheet of glass.

@lavellelee5734

8 ай бұрын

Great analogy

@Treblaine

8 ай бұрын

Loads of worldbuilding don't mention things, not to imply they don't exist in that world, it just doesn't come up. Sleepless In Seattle doesn't mention any drive-by shootings, that's not to say that murders don't happen in that world which is presumably the same as our world, just that it's not a part of that story being told and it's really not a surprise that crime doesn't come up as crime IS rare. "you don't get that rich without doing some very dirty things." so Apple became rich by drive-by shootings? Please, I know that some rare metals in computers some can possibly be traced back to conflict regions where bad things are done to mine those minerals but that's not how Apple got rich, the minerals are smuggled into the global supply chain and you cannot chose to avoid them. The regimes that run these cruel mining operations don't make the regions rich. I agree it's dumb to presume that rich people can't be criminals but it's just as dumb for you to presume they must be criminals because they made a product people freely wanted to give a lot of money for. I'm not an apple fanboy, I own NOTHING Apple I picked it as an example because Apple is an astonishingly rich company and because I work in this industry I know what I'm talking about. I know EXACTLY why people pay a lot of money for Apple products and it's not because Apple did "very dirty things" to force them to pay. There are rich and powerful people who screw people over and guess what? They didn't get there by being someone totally untrustworthy that no one wants to made a deal with, they did play fair by creating something people wanted so much they pay for it. Then when they couldn't hack it any more they started cheating and they end up poorer than if they had tried to compete and produce something people wanted to buy.

@cherryredinterloper8520

8 ай бұрын

Absolutely fantastic analogy

@ProTobigen

8 ай бұрын

​@@TreblaineOk bootlicker

@technobabb4233

7 ай бұрын

​@@Treblainedude everything past your mention of sleepless in Seattle is entirely divorced from the comment.

Ryan’s biggest mistake was not allowing people to leave when they wanted. Being stuck in a place that you’re not happy in is a breeding ground for rebellion.

@soulstealer5625

Жыл бұрын

Of course that factored into his deep paranoia about the surface and government crackdown and/or nuclear war being imminent. There is also the fear that Ryan's ideology would be undermined if people left.

@Synthonym

10 ай бұрын

Any capitalist society requires a slave-like underclass. Since capitalism is inherently hierarchical, this underclass must not only be kept in poverty to enrich those higher up, but must also be the largest social class as each tier of ownership and management cannot exceed the size of the one below it without itself becoming that underclass. This is why he couldn't let people leave. Those benefiting most would choose to stay, but since they rely on the labour of those who don't benefit from the society at all, if Ryan let people leave the labour pool would dry up and the whole system would have collapsed far sooner

@MannoMax

9 ай бұрын

But that would just result in all of your workers fucking of

@asscheeks3212

7 ай бұрын

​@@Synthonymthat also every ideology where humans are in charge, as there is no such thing as a leaderless system regardless of what you believe

@Eddie_of_the_A_Is_A_Gang

6 ай бұрын

@@Synthonym This is retarded. Ryan acted like a state, the very thing he hated. If anything. Preventing anyone from living is more a comparison to North Korea or the USSR. Socialist regimes which enslaves the people to the collective.

A good twist in my opinion is one that recontextualises everything you've seen up until that point, creating a reason to go and re-watch what you had seen before. If the twist is good enough, it can make the second watching even better because now you have insight on multiple scenes and details you might've missed before. That way even if the twist is spoiled to you, it doesn't ruin anything outside of the first time experience. A good twist isn't ruined by spoiling it. Only a joke gets fully ruined by spoiling it.

I had heard about the whole "Atlas" and "Would you kindly" twists long before I ever played the game myself, but when I finally did play it, I had completely forgotten about em. I was thoroughly invested in Atlas and I was happy to have a sympathetic friend whose voice would comfort me in a setting that deeply unsettled me. MINUTES before the actual twists are revealed in-game, it hit me. I remembered what would be coming next, and it hurt. It hurt just as much as any twist that hadn't been spoiled. I've only just started this video, but I wanted to share my experience with the game since I think it's so powerful that, even KNOWING what was just around the corner, the betrayal and shock still had a massive impact on me :)

@Respect2theFallen

Жыл бұрын

Its funny I'm glad bioshock wasn't spoiled for me because it's one of my favorite games of all time but bioschock Infinite was spoiled for me and many stated it sucked but as a diehard fan I got it but when I got around to playing it I forget about the spoilers up until I got towards the ending and then was like "holy shit, I remember some asshole telling me it ends this way" I feel your pain however Infinite was not as good so I wasn't completely devastated

@hollowman9410

Жыл бұрын

@@Respect2theFallen Infinite was bad. Just finished playing it. I knew the complains, but it was more disappointing than I thought. I already had an idea of the ending, I wasn't "spoiled" but I already knew the game was about multiple universes and only had one ending. I don't know how people felt at the time, but it was plainly obvious hours before the reveal that Elizabeth is the MC"s daughter. AND than the big reveal is made and then the game immediately ends (like in less than an hour), like what? No final boss fight? It barely gave me time to digest the full story. Just because I knew what you were going for does not mean that I could see the full picture, you can't just close the curtain like that all of a sudden. There has to be at least one more chapter after the plot twist is made or the big secret is OFFICIALLY revealed. Infinite feels like a story without an epilogue and the dlc's don't even fix this issue. DLCs are meant to expand the game's content, but in this case it only makes it even more confusing.

A good twist includes a Chekhov’s gun. Something set up quietly in the past, noticeable and bobbing above the surface but often not predicted. Once the reveal happens we find that all the clues were there. What I love about Bioshock’s twist is it kinda breaks the fourth wall. We never had a choice because we’re playing the game. Kinda meta and reminds me of the game “Inside”.

I didn't know about that whole selfishness ideology. I used to have a friend long time ago that loved Bioshock and he made his username Atlas. And he became a real toxic jerk only caring about himself and we haven't talked in like 10 years. It all makes sense now.

@trequor

Жыл бұрын

Objectivism as an ideology attracts some pretty toxic people. It also encourages toxicity at the surface level. In the objectivist community it is common to help shepherd new members past this phase. The first tenet of objectivism is actually extremely important. The rest of the philosophy is built on it. The whole reason for the name is that it is supposed to be based in objective reality. Selfishness does function as a moral virtue, but it requires a lot of thinking to get right. The term objectivists use is "rational self interest", with the *rational* part being key to the whole thing. Without it everything falls into selfish anarchy. I think this is why the philosophy never caught on despite its logical rigor, utility, and scalability: it is too expensive for most people to adopt. Expensive in terms of the time and energy required to understand and apply it. This is NOT to say that objectivists are some high iq rick-and-morty viewer! Rather that people of a certain temperament and personality will naturally be interested in it, and will therefore be willing to put the time and energy into understanding it.

@SageofStars

Жыл бұрын

@@trequor I think the reason it never caught on is because about nine out of every ten people who preach it are not believers at all in the idea itself. Same as with Nietzsche, you'll see people who think he has a good point, and try to put it into practice or tell people it's how they should live, but they don't live up to it. And it's because it's like communism, and I mean REAL communism as preached by Lenin, not what his successors turned it into. The problem with both is that reality and human nature will NEVER allow this sort of system to work. If you could get everyone to agree to a set of moral principles and take them as codified truths to the world, they would work. Objectivism would have everyone pressing forward and never pushing others down, communism would have everyone pool their resources, never taking more than needed and always putting back more for the good of everyone. But they ignore that while most humans are able to be happy with bread to live on and circuses to entertain, some of them are so immoral that they won't be happy unless they're on top of that heap of people. Whether by being above, or simply pushing everyone else down below. And that's not getting into those who simply don't care. The Joker, as much as we wish it, isn't unique to fiction. There really are men and women who don't care about anything, and just want to watch the world burn, because to them, it's the one choice you can make in their minds, as anything else will be forgotten, but burning your name into history? We remember monsters as much as saints.

@samuelrichards5521

Жыл бұрын

@@trequor it almost requires someone to have very few deep relationships. Lonely people will often use objectivism as an “out” to excuse intense apathy.

@trequor

Жыл бұрын

@@samuelrichards5521 Yes and no; it limits the number of deep relationships based on, essentially, IQ. The amount of people you can "objectively" care about is limited by how fast you can objectively rationalize these relationships. It is inefficient, hence why mother nature gave us all these bonding hormones to bind us to other people

@LiNestHetalia

Жыл бұрын

@@trequor you mean people who aren't sociopaths and have actually meaningful relationships? Because sincerely objectivism need you to ignore others to be even effective and humans are naturally attracted to social groups, even these who engage on objectivism since they need others that agree with their views and can create a bond-like "intelectual" connection The Key point is that it's a fragile shallow bond since the point of objectivism is your self above everything all, so betraying your friend? Partner? Family? Totally okay because you believe you're doing whatever is better for you Anyway it's flawed from the start

I think a good twist is one where only a bit of information, or one key connection is missing before the reveal. That way upon revision, you can see what everything was leading towards, how the red herrings could have led to another twist, and how it now all fits together with that last key piece. In a sense, it is like a key piece that makes the rest of the puzzle fall into place with its reveal, that can be seen in advance upon revisiting the story.

@MontyZander

Жыл бұрын

Didn’t think about the revision aspect! I like that a lot

A good twist is one surprises you when you first experience it but makes perfect sense when you look back what has lead up to it.

I feel like the Little Sister's morality system is WAY too heavily slept on. Morality systems in games rarely step far beyond simply just being good or evil, yet that simplicity works perfectly for Bioshock since choice wasn't really an option Jack beyond how he would go about achieving his tasks. But when given the choice with no brainwashing in the mix whatsoever, he could choose to be good.

@Minority119

Жыл бұрын

I remember once seeing an interpretation on the little sisters system that described not as being "righteous or malevolent" but rather "do you exercise what little independence you have by nature of being an outsider? or do you play the same game as everyone else like a good little rapture citizen?" and I think it was a pretty neat take on it

@vollsticks

Жыл бұрын

Who knew that murdering little girls is, uh, *checks*; "not good". Unironically PKD made me read Ayn Rand because of the namedrop in A Scanner Darkly. I was 12 and thought it was a sci-fi novel. Thankfully I'd read Marx as well by this time. Otherwise I could be a Randian now

@lurksnitchtongue8986

Жыл бұрын

@@vollsticks Marx and Rand were both morons who were incapable of nuance, so that tracks.

@Narcan885

Жыл бұрын

@@Minority119 It's a bunch of pompous sounding words, sure, but in the end it boils down exactly to the most simplicistic good-evil system imaginable.

@Minority119

Жыл бұрын

@@Narcan885 Any mechanic can be simplified like that What does it change

Ken Levine and his team were really smoking something otherworldly when designing and writing this game. It's genius.

Came for the noobus, stayed for the fascinating long-form analyses.

@dbedard524

Жыл бұрын

This is the way

You mentioned that you weren't sure why the game just lets you "choose" to kill Sander Cohen, but to me, there's some great hidden depth to it. Cohen thinks of you as a "student" and he makes you prove that you are his best student by killing all the others and taking their pictures to prove it. At the end, he tells you the locked treasure is for a "true" student of his. So what would a true student of a man who had all of his followers killed and memorialized in photographs look like? It's pretty clear that on some level, concious or not, Cohen wants you to kill him and take a picture of him. And that's how you get the treasure. Also, I understand the dislike for multiple endings, but I remember when I first played I was told by a friend that the game ended with you getting impaled from behind by a Big Daddy's drill, like in the first trailer. So I played the game, rescuing the little sisters all the way through, believing that in the end I'd still die brutally and without recourse. It's very much in the grimness of the game's atmosphere. And yet, it subverted my expectation with a really upbeat ending that almost stands against the rest of the game in comparison; that was a weirdly powerful part of the experience to me and I think the game would have been lesser without it. Though I get that that experience is unique to me. As for fighting Frank Fontaine at the end, sure it's a lame boss fight mechanically but it manages to tie in the major elements; the plasmids, the little sisters, and Atlas in his final form. Perhaps it could have been done better, but I really don't know how. Ending at killing Andrew Ryan makes more sense but I'm really glad the game kept on going after that cause it meant I was unable to predict what happened next; it made the rest of the story feel like there was no end in sight, which is hard to do in a conventional game where and ending is often pretty easy to detect up ahead.

@Narcan885

Жыл бұрын

Come on, basically anything would have improved that final boss fight. It's as lame as it gets.

At about an hour and 37 minutes in, you said in Iron Man 3 that Iron Man found out Ben Kingsley was the Mandalorian, not the Mandarin. Granted finding out that Mandarin was actually the Mandalorian would be a million times more interesting.

@Torlik11

Жыл бұрын

I feel like that was the joke

I love how you do the quotes in the style of the games audio diaries. Really adds to character of their depiction.

@samuelstensgaard4828

Жыл бұрын

I feel like it helps keep me engaged for whatever reason

Tbh I kinda liked the dog in a wheelchair idea. According to Atlas society Objectivism rejects animal rights due to them not being rational beings, so I think it would've fit pretty well to have animal experimentation like that.

@SageofStars

Жыл бұрын

I think the child corrupted angle works better, especially since it's used to explain why Tenn has her sudden rush of human emotions that make her like things less...even if it IS a bit cliche that the woman suddenly has motherly instincts turn on in the presence of children(Which is even addressed in an audio diary in the Farmer's Market area...though only there and only briefly).

@chandllerburse737

4 ай бұрын

@@SageofStars I thought she always had regrets of the little sisters she just suppressed them until she couldn’t anymore

"and if you're a fan of Ayn Rand ---" -*-snicker-*- "--- why?" No idea why this got me so hard, thanks for the laugh.

Rand’s commentary on children makes me glad she never decided to become a parent. Those kids would’ve had emotional scars and neglect issues for years knowing that their mother chose not to see them as people. 😣

@NobodyC13

Жыл бұрын

The implications are even worse if they were neurodivergent.

@highjumpstudios2384

Жыл бұрын

While it is a godsend she didn't have any kids, she didn't in the beginning because a child, being pregnant, would have gotten in the way of her own self indulgent self centered lifestyle.

@jbktpl1245

6 ай бұрын

Indeed

@SleepyMatt-zzz

5 ай бұрын

@@NobodyC13 Yeah, she was super ableist.

I think the best indicator of a good twist is that leaves you feeling both "What the fuck?!" _and_ also "Oh, of *course* it would go that way!" at the exact same time. When you engage with that piece of media again, it creates a strong sense of dramatic irony in a good way because now that you know where it's going, it recontextualises everything that came before in a way that's still worth watching because everything still matter, just for different reasons than you initially thought. And ofc, there's also the fact there should still be an emotional impact other than just surprise for the twist. To cite this game as an example, the twist in bioshock works so well because [SPOILER ALERT!!!!!] even if the surprise wears out, the sinking feelings of guilt/shame over how we just got conned into killing Andrew Ryan so a manipulative arsehole can take over the city and frustrated powerlessness over how there's nothing we can do to stop ourselves no matter how much we want to still hit hard. Especially because it so sharply contrasts against all the ways in which the game has worked double-time in the exploration and combat to make us feel like we have agency, that we're doing all this because we _chose_ to.

After learning about the series and watching your videos also, I'm gonna be real for a moment: While I might be over reading into it, it feels with just the Bioshock series that Ken Levine is salty and wanted a redo for what he wanted out of Bioshock 1. And with Bioshock 2, he had no hand in it. Bioshock 1: Intended to have only one ending that was going to be "moral ambiguity", had to have a morality system because publisher said so. Game does one simple check: Is the number of little sisters harvested 0, 1 or more, or 21. 0 is the good ending about family, 1 or more and 21 are the bad endings. Bioshock Infinite: Has only one ending, player choice does not matter. Burial at Sea Ep1: Has only one ending, player choice does not matter. Burial at Sea Ep2: Has only one ending, player choice does not matter. Bioshock 2: Whips out a chart to determine your ending. Consults chart to check to see if you harvested 0, 1 or more, or all of the little sisters. Then separately checks to see how many lieutenants of Sofia Lamb are still alive that range from 3, 2, 1, or 0. The first check is to help determine Eleanor's mental state as this can have technically four possible different outcomes, while the second check is to determine if Sofia Lamb is alive or dead. In addition, if the player has harvested at least 1 little sister, also offers the player a choice if they want the neutral or bad ending. Eleanor's own mental state for how she interacts with Delta in the ending ranges from Good, Neutral, Bad, Evil.

@SageofStars

Жыл бұрын

Interestingly, Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation once opined that Kevin feels like a guy with a nun standing in front of his desk with a ruler, who smacks it down when he finishes a project, and demands he do it again, but properly this time. You can see the thematic and gameplay threads that run from System Shock, to Infinite, and even into Prey in some ways.

Man, I truly enjoying your deep analysis of BioShock. You are not like others tubers that simply walk through story of the game , you really go deep into the meat and philosophy behind game. Into the real neat picky details of BioShock. So thank you for that. I truly enjoyed it.

@MontyZander

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

One of the points that always stood out to me was when you encounter the recording about residents choosing to not heat their water pipes and pipes bursting and Rapture beginning to flood. That’s kinda at the core of why AnCapistan fails: there are some things that absolutely need regulation or else the whole system will fall apart.

@MontyZander

Жыл бұрын

Not sure where you’re writing from, but in the UK I think that’s going to be a reality here come January

@thomastrinkle2294

Жыл бұрын

@@MontyZander Texas. I already live in Bioshock 2: a failed capitalist dystopia overrun by insane fundamentalist cultists.

@morgantrias3103

5 ай бұрын

Yes, it falls apart the second someone says "I'm only pissing in my part of the pool".

The ending section where you state the game is much harder due to enemies being bullet sponges. I think the issue you have there comes back to your stance on using the camera. I fully researched every enemy type, through every playthrough I have done of the game. I actually enjoyed getting them all complete. This in turn made all the enemies die quicker by the end of the game, so I never felt the difficulty ramp up, and I was playing on Hard. I am betting they expected you to do the research and if you ignored it, you would feel it ramp up because of that.

This video feels like you're talking about Bioshock while periodically taking pauses to throw tomatoes at Ayn Rand standing in the corner of the room, and I'm HERE. FOR. IT!

@SageofStars

Жыл бұрын

I mean, it is what Bioshock itself does, though without directly referencing her name. He just makes sure to bring up all the ways the game does this all on its own. Never forget. Andrew Ryan can be used to spell WE R AYN RAND.

Phenomenal video. It’s great to see an analysis on Andrew Ryan’s ideology and how something like Rapture was doomed to fail regardless of whether Adam was around. I swear some opinions on this game in particular show me that media literacy classes should be a requirement in schools.

@Nostripe361

Жыл бұрын

I've always thought it would be neat to have media literacy in school. Like say discussing about how one should be aware of the bad ideas in even their favorite media and accept that it is there; most people don't seem to understand this and instead default to trying to defend the bad stuff as totally fine due to x or y. I still remember when I had someone I am friends with talk with my about objectivism. One of the first things they argued was that the philosophy doesn't say that we can't be charitable but that it must be given willingly and not forced on you. The thing is this person didn't seem to notice that they were only able to believe this thanks to a moral foundation that objectivism doesn't really support but that they probably only got due to their religious beliefs instead.

@ryszakowy

Жыл бұрын

ryan was right but got so hung up with his problems with fontaine he forgot to set actual limits no government no liberals no censorship but forgot to set "if you don't like it here you're welcome to go back to surface" it was his city after all

@anjetto1

Жыл бұрын

You should stop talking to americans. You can tell them in great detail until you're blue in the face about the faults of objectivism and capitalism and yanks will look you right in the eye and tell you bioshock isn't about politics, they're basically pointless

@ryguy9876

Жыл бұрын

I'm from a state where reading comprehension was a mandatory part of the curriculum from 6th to 12th grade and we still have idiots who refuse to take the time to figure out what something actually says it means.

@jamenrinehart9107

Жыл бұрын

@@anjetto1 True I’ve had people unironically say that the theme of Bioshock is “drugs ruin society,” completely ignoring what led to the discovery and use of Adam in the first place. I am also American so for the most part I’m stuck talking to only my fellow yanks.

A good twist: Adds to the story Makes sense for the story Is more interesting than the un twisted story Doesn't make previous story redundant

The best part is you might think that there could be a chance that Jack can override the command or that you the player would in his place, but by this point it doesn't matter because you've already been following every command given to you and there is no erasing those decisions just like there's no way to not attack the person with the golf club.

15 minutes in and I have to comment... this presentation is genius! Your writing is incredible as usual, but the pacing, music, imagery and references... home run my friend. Thanks for the work you put into these.

Joker said it the best in Arkham City (in response to what makes a good twist) "how do you keep a secret from the world's greatest detective? (The player) You stick it right under him, put it under his long pointy nose and wait"

25:03 Fun fact: The guy who who discovered that washing your hands was essential to prevent infections was publicly derided by his colleagues, eventually fired, had a mental breakdown from all the baseless criticism of his work and his friend committed him to an insane asylum where he was beaten and basically murdered by the staff. It wasn't until 10 years after his death that his work was reevaluated and he was proven correct and it wasn't until over a century later in the 80s that the US issued hand washing guidelines. Doctors were filthy fuckers back in the day.

@CaptainMartinWalker

5 ай бұрын

Why even suffer a mental breakdown? Lol just keep washing your hands. If they deride you, call them what they are, the N word

@morgantrias3103

5 ай бұрын

Ignaz Semmelweiss?

@chandllerburse737

4 ай бұрын

@@CaptainMartinWalker So be racist?

Something I never understood about Fontaine is why does he betray you and then seem upset when you’re trying to kill him The whole you were like a son to me thing never sat right with me because of what happens in Andrew‘s office

@SageofStars

Жыл бұрын

Oh that's easy. It's the same instinct that caused that commander dude on Titan Station in Dead Space 2 to literally order Isaac to stop surviving his traps at one point. These people feel you are a waste of their time, and beneath them, and you SHOULDN'T be winning, so they're trying to tell you to stop. In this case it's by trying to appeal to a familial connection he thinks/hopes you might feel to him. You don't, but he's desperate and out of options.

@soulstealer5625

Жыл бұрын

Admittedly it was more in the book so take it with a grain of salt but apparently its because Fontaine was an orphan. Therefore his understanding of family was warped and that Jack should be grateful he got a "dad" and a normal life rather than none at all.

@kpeters180

3 ай бұрын

It's an excellent manipulation tactic. If you lovebomb someone, you can convince that person to work against their best interest. It's the same way that companies will use the "we're a family" line to convince workers not to take personal days. Fontaine is attempting to guilt Jack into rethinking his vengeance quest by reminding the player of their "family" relationship. Fontaine had set up Jack's living situation, implying that Jack owes Fontaine for his loving "family." Throughout the game, he had been using terms of endearment while manipulating Jack into doing his bidding. The relationship between Jack and Fontaine has always been skewed, but Fontaine wants to take advantage of any remaining fond memories of "Atlas" the player may have. The line is also a key insight into Fontaine's narcissism. He's pulling the "look what you made me do" excuse that is often used by abusers to justify their mistreatment of others. Fontaine does not want to admit that he's made a mistake in trusting Tenenbaum or admit the harm that he has done to Jack.

This is the game that taught me to think of the environment/setting as a character. Rapture's success as a setting is due to its success at being a well written character, and the game is better because of it.

I don't understand how anyone, let alone a philosopher/thought leader, can view photography as an art form as showing reality as it is, so much of photography is framing and composing shots in such a way to capture the unique view, ideas and emotions of how the individual taking the picture interprets what's before them.

1:30:10 Ryan didn't invent better plasmids. He nationalised (ha!) Fontaine Futuristics, then ran it... for the good of Rapture... and kept the profits. That's what broke his heart most of all I think. The whole situation proves that in a society that doesn't protect it's masses, act in their collective interest, that cheats, criminals will spring up. Ryan himself was bad enough for leaving people to starve. But Ryan at least had... if not some sort of decency, then snobbery. A distaste for crime and criminals. Fontaine didn't, so competed in all the ways Ryan wouldn't, he seeped into the cracks. Most obviously smuggling. Trade with the outside world was banned (for the COLLETIVE GOOD of Rapture!), so Fontaine profited from doing it. You can't out-compete a criminal, except perhaps by being a bigger criminal, and crime is not what Ryan built Rapture to serve. So he "nationalised" Fontaine Futuristics, proving his whole silly notion crumbled at it's first exposure to reality, a lot like when Ayn Rand went on welfare under her husband's name, and tried to keep it secret. Which proves, more than anything, that human life, survival, is more complex than any silly theory or ideology can encompass. Just like Lamb's taking socialism too seriously in the sequel. Overall, all political systems have faults. If anything, I'd say that the games are an endorsement of moderation and flexibility. Don't trust anyone who'd have a statue made that's bigger than they are. Don't trust anyone who'd even pose for a statue!

I love how much respect everyone _still_ has for bioshock's twist and how, all these years later, people are still making such an effort to keep the secret.

1:07:37 I feel like the term “Worldbuilding” would fit that definition. Fleshes out a world by paying attention to the small details like…where the villiagers get their water from.

@mohesm1

Жыл бұрын

Bit late here but I'd put forward the idea of "Shadification" as coined by the KZreadr MrBtongue

@FireTrainer92

Жыл бұрын

@@mohesm1 Lol if he came back one day I'd be shocked

@hiya-de5hd

12 күн бұрын

Background physics?

1:07:37 I think the term 'Lifecycle simulation' is more a subsection of ludonarritive. Mostly the example you are giving in various games and in Bioshock about where the people get their basic living needs. It reminds me of an example given about ludonarritive dissonance in the fallout games. In short, a nuclear apocalypse devestated the entire world. A handful of people survived through bunkers and people are slowly rebuilding society some 200 years later. Supposedly, people mostly survive on water from rivers, but their food comes from preserved cans of food from before the bombs dropped. No matter how well you can preserve some food, it cannot logically survive for 200 years in a ravaged supermarket and go untouched for that long.

Goddamn dude, I just came across you completely randomly in the algorithm and you deserve way more views and subscribers for the amount of editing and effort you’re putting into your videos here I really hope your day comes soon in the algorithm like it has for so many others

@MontyZander

Жыл бұрын

Hey thank you!

@Respect2theFallen

Жыл бұрын

Ditto I didn't know so many people shit on Ayn Rand like that though but I appreciate the fact she created something that inspired Levine and team to develop the masterpiece that is Bioshock.

damn...the sheer damage that Infinity's DLC does to BioShock 1 is staggering....

the art of the Twist comes from sprinkling enough hints that you can figure out *something* but maybe not the actual answer. Atlas is trusted because he's distant enough to never be seen but also with us long enough to feel personal. Set-up makes a good twist.

It's funny how in Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand had to introduce a perpetual motion device to get her objectivist utopia to work. It could have been something like fusion without changing too much of the story but the fact that Rand instead chose to make Galt's Gulch run on an actual physical impossibly just tickles me. Thank you for writing the perfect metaphor about objectivism's incompatibility with reality directly into its manifesto.

Which ending you get isn't random. Its dependent on the little sisters. If 3 of them die and/or are harvested, you get the bad ending.

I still can't get over the writing for these videos. It takes me a while to get through them but it's so worth it each and every time. I never read Atlas Shrugged, but despite that it was still pretty easy to understand the ideas Bioshock was trying to communicate and I think that speaks a lot to how well crafted it is both in its world design and its writing. It's one of my favorite shooters from that era (despite the hacking) and as always you nailed it with these deep dive while also bettering my understanding of where its ideas came from.

@MontyZander

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@BATS2288

Жыл бұрын

..

Bioshock one of my all time favourite games and I'm happy you made a video about it

What makes a good twist? Anyone can twist a story. It is not such a big deal. Just take events into a completely different direction, very suddenly. What separates a good twist from the bad, is foreshadowing. The good one rides the very careful line, where you don't really see it coming, but once it is here, it becomes obvious. Ideally a few moments before it is unveiled, as you piece the dots together, but the very least least right after. I remember playing Mass Effect 1, and figuring out that Sovereign was a Reaper, right before Shephard declared it, connecting all. It was there when I truly fell in love with the series, as it was a grand accumulation of the entire plot. (Great comment hook by the way)

@jojjakii2480

3 ай бұрын

By the way, this is the reason that some shows have a hard time delivering on their twists. When the audience has several months between two halves of a season, they will either piece the clues together from several viewings, and it will be called miles ahead, or it will be an asspull twist with no foreshadowing whatsoever, that when the all episodes watched after another, just won't fit. It is the height of a writer's hubris, to change the twist because the fans figured it out during production. If they did that, it means they were invested in the events, paid attention, and you did a great job.

I'm not joking when I say that one of my favorite things in gaming is to explore a city long after everyone has left. Every time I play Uncharted 4, I'm consistently enthralled by the Libertalia sections, seeing places where people used to live hundreds of years after those people are gone. This is what fascinates me about Rapture.

@RainbowMan9407

7 ай бұрын

A good plot twist is one that surprises you when it's revealed, but is something that you realize makes sense when looking back. If you've heard of Sly 2, I think the plot twist at the end of Chapter 3 of that game is a perfect example. And this plot twist is also something I would see as a good plot twist.

From a perspective of someone who's never played Bioshock nor intends to, this was very illuminating. I exercised my right to freedom which allowed me to ignore your attempt at coercing me to stop watching the video when it came to the game's twist.

@trequor

Жыл бұрын

If you dont intend to then that makes sense haha. This is one of those rare stories that could ONLY work in a video game. It subverts the basic mechanics we are used to as gamers.

@Tepid24

Жыл бұрын

@@trequor Yeah, I am genuinely extremely interested in games like this that play with their mechanics and worldbuilding in creative ways to tell a unique story, but I know that the basic gameplay loop would leave me unhappy and just playing the game so I can reach the next data point. And at that point I'd rather just consume it in the form of a video essay like this.

@greenaum

Жыл бұрын

GO PLAY BIOSHOCK! It's such a good game! The gameplay is great, it's always fun, you're always wondering how to achieve your goal and what to do. You're sometimes surprised by enemies and have to run round like a lunatic shooting half-blind. Even without the amazing story, it's a great FPS. But the story is so much better lived in first-person. It happens to you. And it's best if you don't know what's coming, but even if you do it's great. There's so much to notice, the story is told in all sorts of little ways scattered about the environment. The various points are made in so many ways. I don't know what you're talking about with "gameplay loop" and "next data point". Do you enjoy FPSes? If you do, you'll certainly enjoy Bioshock. If you don't, fine, you probably won't. Are you just saying the plot is spoiled for you so you can't be arsed to play it? Again, experiencing it takes much longer than watching a video, and you're seeing everything the creators put in to support their story. Don't all games have a "basic gameplay loop"? And all games with a story, a plot, have "data points" you reach one at a time as the plot thickens. Seems a silly thing to object to in a game, especially a great one.

@Tepid24

Жыл бұрын

@@greenaum Oh yeah, I should have been clearer in my previous statement. I'm not calling the gameplay loop basic, I was just saying that the most basic (atomic, integral) part of the gameplay loop, that being an FPS, isn't to my taste. It doesn't go any deeper than that, I just don't enjoy shooters much. The last game I tried to play for plot alone was the Witcher 1, and I spent more time reading through ingame encyclopedia articles than actually dragging myself through the gameplay. Ie, I was just playing it for the data points and in retrospect I highly doubt I'll ever finish it and think it more likely I'll just consume it through video/wiki at some point. But yeah, definitely not knocking the game, I'm sure it's great, just not my cup of tea.

@Respect2theFallen

Жыл бұрын

@CCM I respect that it's a pretty outdated game as well. I love bioshock and can play it over and over again and enjoy it even though I know the story but the game play had its bugs and is clunky because of the era it was made. It still looks beautiful and the lore is amazing though but I empathize with you because I heard great things about Dead space and other games but have no desire to play them but enjoy reading about them or watching playthroughs or something.

Your long form content is outstanding Monty. I really hope these take off eventually. Criminally underwatched. Joseph Anderson level stuff with a lot of thought out added insight. Keep it up my man 😊

@DeathStarU.S.A

Жыл бұрын

I agree about everything except the Joseph Anderson comment, imo he's a hack, but w.e

@karlmcloughlintighe8004

Жыл бұрын

@@DeathStarU.S.A That's fair man. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Monty is killing it though.

50:00 I totally agree with this take. This is why I always play the game on hard mode with respawns turned off. If you die, you start at the beginning of the level with all progress since you entered undone. A big enough penalty to make me _actually_ try not to die without making the game unplayable. I couldn't make it work for the last level of the game, though. So take that for what it's worth.

I think my take on a twist is when the story subverts an expectation that it had built up over natural interaction. It should be a missing puzzle piece you get to finish a puzzle you had no idea it needed.

One thing I was expecting you to comment on is one oddity with the ending that I don't see addressed enough, even though it fits perfectly in with all the other big bads of the Bioshock series...and even Shodan from System Shock in the end. The Abandonment of Your Core Belief. Ryan, he abandons objectivist ideals long before you hit the scene, heck, long before Rapture even falls apart he starts to let it slide away, because in the end, he has simply become the Governments he tried to flee. Sophia Lamb, she just never really believed in her version of collectivism. Like, at all, she really wasn't one for it, by her own admission, she saw it as something unobtainable. That was the whole thing behind the idea of the Utopian, that to create an ideal society, first you have to create the ideal person. Zachariah Comstock...well, he fancies himself a man of god, who used the devil's arms against the devil's works when it was needed, but he knew it was wrong. He admits that near the end when the Girl tells him so, but he's not going to give up, even if there's no place in heaven for him, he'll still try and force it to be born. And SHODAN was always looking down on humans, and yet, they beat her. Several times. Worse, she had to USE them, and would have even been helpless without them, which must have galled her. And finally you have Fontaine. His ideal was the Con. But the Con requires no emotions at the end of it all. You get the profit, and you get out before the cops come down on you. That's how you play the grift game. And yet...he stays. Like, seriously, he stays in Rapture to kill you. Why? You're a tool he used and discarded. He has no reason to care. So what if you're running around, he's got the Adam and the Plasmids that he'll be selling to the top bidder. That was the whole point of the genetic key, to just get him out of here. But he can't. He's afraid, or rather...he cares too much about you. On the surface, you'd be powerless, oh sure, you'd have those plasmid powers, but in a week, he can have a hundred people on his payroll with those. So why be afraid of you? Because he made you, because...you are the perfect weapon, and he HAS to break you, for the con to be over. It's the ultimate sunk cost fallacy, and honestly, Sinclair would be ashamed of him as a grifter.

@MontyZander

Жыл бұрын

I had PARAGRAPHS about the abandonment of belief and ended up cutting them because I ended up talking about B2 too much. Expect me to look at it if I cover Bioshock 2! Lamb is very fun and interesting.

@SageofStars

Жыл бұрын

@@MontyZander Lamb is my favorite villain BECAUSE she's aware of her hypocrisy, and how she's used people. Hell, she as good as admits she's damned herself if you let Grace and Stanley live she...deals with them herself, and she admits that it's a damning thing, but she's willing to sacrifice ANYTHING to create the Utopian, even her own self respect. And even THAT falls away near the end, as Elanor proves incorruptible to her philosophy, either turning selfless in a different way due to a good Delta, or becoming entirely selfish for an evil one. Right before the end, she as good as says if Utopia can't come on her terms, then she'll just destroy it all, and its unstated but the reason is because she's unwilling to admit, even to herself, that all her sacrifices, all the death around her and betrayal...were for nothing. Yeah, yeah, I know, you'll get to it when you get to it, but I like to discuss these things myself. I can write you paragraphs on characters I enjoy, or those I hate. I did some stuff for Lando Mollari from Babylon 5 a while back(Great Descent type character, and a fantastic actor). And also a long diatribe against Kamille Bidan, the...protagonist of the Anime 'Zeta Gundam', who gets all his friends and family killed because he's literally too dumb to live, and yet he's remembered fondly by that fandom...to be fair that fandom has people supporting the space Third Reich, so there might be deeper problems with some of them.

Gosh, I forgot how complex the themes in Bioshock are. And that's not even touching the collectivism in the direct sequel and the American racism, religion, and multiverse stuff in Infinite.

@mcihay246

Жыл бұрын

Regarding Infinite relating to the setting, the word you're looking for would be Exceptionalism. Definition being that "Exceptionalism is the perception or belief that a species, country, society, institution, movement, individual, or time period is "exceptional" (i.e., unusual or extraordinary). The term carries the implication, whether or not specified, that the referent is superior in some way."

@bigounce562

Жыл бұрын

@@mcihay246 oh yeah American Exceptionalism is the term. It was really confrontational at the time for me.

@Smilephile

Жыл бұрын

Too bad Infinite was awful gameplay-wise.

@mcihay246

Жыл бұрын

@@Smilephile Tbf, all the Bioshock games had meh gameplay. Not really many people talk about the games in regards to the gameplay, but moreso the story.

@Smilephile

Жыл бұрын

@@mcihay246 That is true but infinite is noticably worse, going back to BioShock the guns have more punch and the Big daddy little sister system is really cool and engaging. Plus you had more options with the upgrades in 1 and 2. I'd also say the story is far weaker in Infinite as the video supports.

I think what makes a good twist is when you realize the truth, and that it was under your nose the whole time. Even when that twist can be predicted by a careful reading of what youre playing or watching or reading, it can still be satisfying to watch the ending unfold- I'm satisfied by the fact that the writers paid close enough attention to what they were making to make things make satisfying sense, and still (hopefully) surprise me

i actually ended up using the camera a lot towards the end game when i remembered it could be used as a damage boost, admittedly i kept scrolling onto it anyways.

"And if you are a fan of Ayn Rand- pfff.... hahahaha, why?!" Nice.^^

I love how you can tell atlas is a bad dude as soon as the first audio tape you find, if you listen closely to the new years attack you can hear someone yell “LONG LIVE ATLAS” in the background

What makes a good twist? I guess to me it would be something that recontextizes the story looking back/second viewings as it provides addition info and new prespectives on how it was told, reveal more about a character or the world. In the simplest way i could put it

A good twist: Something that recontextualizes the entire story, to the point where a separate run-through of the media allows you to look at it in a new, interesting light.

I once heard one of leftist friends, who had a degree in literature, that Atlas Shrugged was his "problematic fav;" he didnt think the political or societal ideas had any value, but genuinely enjoyed the prose. I am still questioning his tastes for literature to this day; its like Stevie Wonder saying his favorite song is one of those videos where a cat jumps across piano

I actually really like the gear in infinite. The fact that it is limited means they can be more impact full. Winter shield, last man standing, rising bloodlust and especially overkill impact the gameplay a lot and are just really fun.

I got my sister a copy of The Bioshock Collection for her Switch. A week later we went to visit here back at her home in Flagstaff and she asked why I’d given her a survival horror game for her birthday

@skadi3179

2 ай бұрын

Did she keep playing it tho?

i’m so stupid i never picked up on the similarity in names between ayn rand and andrew ryan 😭 i knew about the inspiration obviously but i never put that name reference together somehow lol

I’ve seen many video essays on the bioshock series, as they are some of my favorite stories in video games. But none of them are as good as yours and you definitely touched on a lot of points that I have been looking for someone to bring up. Great work!

I am completely honest, this video is one the best KZread videos I have ever seen. Idk how to explain it, its just a perfect combination of informative and amusing. Thank you, really

A fully remade Bioshock that keeps all of the storytelling and aesthetics but tweaks the gameplay to remove the clunkiness and lean more heavily on survival horror would be so good

What an incredibly well made video! I came here from your Evil Within critique and I'll definitely be sticking around, and watching the rest of your critiques. It's clear you put in so much thought and work into your channel's content, you definitely deserve more subs!!

I genuinely planned on watching a movie tonight, but wound up watching this with absolutely zero regrets. Got to say, this video is damn near perfect (save for calling Atlas an Englishman when he's Irish and quoting Fontaine but crediting Peach Wilkins. Minor things!). Bioshock is quite possibly my all-time favourite game and seeing you pair the parallels between Ayn Rand and the failure of what her ideology leads to was nothing short of art. Instant sub on my part, 10/10 video.

Two biggest things that annoy me about BioShock: 1) I'm on the final chapter and the game still randomly pops up "hey you should use medkits if injured". I. Know. 2) subtitles are linked to audio clips. The entire golfclub speech is broken into like, three clips. This means you get an entire paragraph of text for two solid minutes, spoiling what's about to happen.

I checked out your channel because your Elden Ring Noobus video kept popping up in my recommended. So far, I'm completely blown away by the high quality of your critique vids (BioShock 2 in particular), and I'm halfway through the kingdom hearts lore dump vids! Just wanted to say that you should be very proud of the work you've put into your channel and thanks for the great content!

Such an enjoyable critique. I have just finished Bioshock and wanted to hear more about it from people who actually know a thing or two about philosophies present in the game. Couldn't have chosen better.

I just want go add one thing. I did the math back in the days and it pay more to save the little sister on the long term than harvesting them thanks to the gifts. The only advantage to harvesting is that it’s more immediate. Don’t have to wait for those gifts. Making it not much of a moral choice.

@SageofStars

Жыл бұрын

You do still end up with SLIGHTLY more ADAM, less. It comes to 40 less for every 3 sisters(3 being needed for each gift). So 40X7 is 280. It's enough for 1 more full powered plasmid...but given how useless some are, you're probably not going to miss it much. Even worse in the sequel due to the gathering mechanic. The difference between is in the 200 range...though that's only if you do it completely, as doing the first 4 as save gets you proud parent, and that at least boosts you up to around 300 more.

I know this is two years after the fact - but what makes a good twist imo is when you’re playing along for what you believe the plot is heading to-not exactly knowing- but all the dots are connecting in a way that’s familiar enough. The twist then reveals to you what has been happening all along and not only is it surprising but at the same time triggers that subconscious part of you that knew the dots were connecting a little too well- that knew something was out of place but chose to ignore it anyway because the dots connecting seemed more satisfying than uneasiness caused by a far more complex and sinister truth.

What makes a good twist is when it makes sense ever after the games over. Something you say, “I should’ve known”

I'm 9 months late to the video, but this is one of the best video essays on Bioshock I've watched! The discussion of Objectivism and Ayn Rand's believes were fascinating, they gave me a whole new perspective with which to view Bioshock apart from the commentary of Predeterminism and Free Will. Very well researched but still charmingly comedic.

The problems come when you remember that governing bodies are also run by humans. Her Philosophy might be full of nonsense but so is blindly relegating power to someone else. Especially when you have no say in it whatsoever. Great video though

A good twist is made through good foreshadowing. I should be able to reread a book or replay a game after seeing the twist and think "oh my gosh! it was here all along!!"- excellent video btw! I discovered your channel a few days ago and have thoroughly enjoyed binge watching them :D

1:19:43 This caught me so off-guard that I had to pause the video from laughing

Since watching this video, I've invested more time into reading some of the works that inspired bioshock. Ayn Rand is fucking horrible. I couldn't think of a more miserable philosophy. Ayn Rand couldn't live in/ survive the worlds she thought up.