BIKER FOUGHT BACK | 30 MINUTES OF BIKERS ROAD RAGE & Unexpected Moto Moments 2023 | Ep.186

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00:35 ScooterScout • 4k Cool Vehicles - A C...
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05:21 Biker Y Fans • RECKLESS Lady almost s...
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13:13 Salden247 • At least he saw me - f...
13:33 fastesi • PLYMOUTH ROAD RAGE (Te...
14:26 txm_scc • Road Rage: Gingerbread...
16:01 RUSSO MT • Road Rage / Fight / Br...
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19:14 GIXXUS UK • Van driver not happy b...
19:41 Wee Gee • Temporary traffic ligh...
19:54 Wee Gee • Another roundabout,ano...
20:36 Glenny Rides • Handing out gift cards...
25:13 SimonP • Crazy lady just walks ...
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Пікірлер: 170

  • @NomadMoto
    @NomadMoto11 ай бұрын

    🙏🏼✌️👊🏼🥷

  • @Motorcycle-Moments

    @Motorcycle-Moments

    11 ай бұрын

    Thanks for amazing video mate! Today new episode with the second part of your video, check it out later!

  • @torkeltufva86
    @torkeltufva8611 ай бұрын

    As a biker myself, I find it pretty interesting that a lot of bikers try to school others while speeding and acting like idiots in traffic themselves...

  • @freddythefrog9154

    @freddythefrog9154

    11 ай бұрын

    Well said

  • @crazyman238

    @crazyman238

    11 ай бұрын

    me doing something that in the end will 90% of the time only affect me is completely different than someone in a car doing something that in the end will only affect me. you clearly arent a biker if you cant understand that

  • @torkeltufva86

    @torkeltufva86

    11 ай бұрын

    @@crazyman238 What I understand is that if you as a biker don't give a f about the remaining 10% you're an nob.

  • @crazyman238

    @crazyman238

    11 ай бұрын

    @@torkeltufva86 you realize how rare that remaining percent is right? there is a reason a biker is 5 times more likely to face injury than someone in a car. you keep making yourself look absolutely stupid tho kiddo. get back to me when you either finish middle school or actually own a motorcycle

  • @visqgames7214
    @visqgames721411 ай бұрын

    People think being polite means you have to do what they ask its hilarious

  • @righty-o3585
    @righty-o358511 ай бұрын

    That second clip, the car was completely inside his own lane when he passed the bike, and stayed in his own lane until he was at least a car length in front. If bikers can't handle people obeying the law, maybe they should find a different mode of transportation

  • @Mo-xx9gg

    @Mo-xx9gg

    10 ай бұрын

    Disagree! He was two car lengths ahead lol

  • @hidden_bread5570

    @hidden_bread5570

    10 ай бұрын

    Wrong. That’s in a different country where the driver sits in the right and the cars are in the left lane. The car driver was not in their lane when turning in.

  • @righty-o3585

    @righty-o3585

    10 ай бұрын

    @@hidden_bread5570 well yeah no shit, when changing lanes you will enter the other lane. They were in their own lane till way in front of the motorcycle though. You can't say they weren't, we all saw the video

  • @hidden_bread5570

    @hidden_bread5570

    9 ай бұрын

    @@righty-o3585 the thing is, they got entirely onto the wrong lane. Not even a little bit like a normal driver would accidentally do

  • @Forgiven224

    @Forgiven224

    9 ай бұрын

    No it wasnt i am a retired police the biker has the rights that car should have got a ticket

  • @scottytoohotty7617
    @scottytoohotty7617Ай бұрын

    "Luckily, a crash was avoided somehow " as he slowly drives around the woman on the side of the road...that one got me laughing 🤣

  • @Greydawg
    @Greydawg11 ай бұрын

    3:13 "Cutting people off that close is dangerous..." immediately celebrates the biker who *deliberately cut him off vastly closer...* Can't make this stuff up, but dang, fam, this is NOT what cams are for. Feels like both the riders here were deliberately WAY more dangerous way more often. Just yikes on this one... 🤷🤷‍♀🤷

  • @mathew85

    @mathew85

    11 ай бұрын

    Ya these channels are ok with bikers driving dangerously, yet condemn cars when they do it.

  • @danstudio482

    @danstudio482

    11 ай бұрын

    The driver of the Volkswagen is not to blame at all

  • @forrestshearree8728
    @forrestshearree872811 ай бұрын

    Everyone is tough online and in their car 😮‍💨

  • @101spacecase
    @101spacecase11 ай бұрын

    male Karen = Daren.... love it 🤣🤣

  • @markjaycox8811
    @markjaycox881111 ай бұрын

    The biker had 5 seconds to react to the White van entering the highway on his right, and in 2 seconds you can tell if someone is poking along or getting along, so the biker had 3 seconds to know of a possible situation, and to decide action, and no action was really taken by the biker, or the Van would never have gotten that close in the 1st place. As a Biker, you better read everyone's mind, because those big crates are oblivious to the damage they can cause, and if you don't "what If" to every vehicle, you're depending on strangers for your LIFE.

  • @swaglabchannel
    @swaglabchannel4 ай бұрын

    I want to witness a video featuring the quintessential American biker adorned in patches, engaging in confrontations beyond just fellow riders

  • @Patrick-it8nk
    @Patrick-it8nk2 ай бұрын

    "Wreck the countryside with these... machines" Yeah holy shit he really IS Gandalf 🤣 Tolkien would be proud lol

  • @l1ve_wiire387
    @l1ve_wiire38711 ай бұрын

    the video with the dog is definitely my favorite "biker's road rage" moment. :)

  • @flagrantesmotomax
    @flagrantesmotomax11 ай бұрын

    Cheers, mate! Nice edit and thanks for sharing!

  • @BrandonBruce1977
    @BrandonBruce197711 ай бұрын

    The old couple reminds me of the old couple on Never Ending Story - tell me im wrong lol 😂

  • @x8jason8x
    @x8jason8x11 ай бұрын

    It's definitely hard to argue with these irrational elderly children. Next time, ignore them and keep going.

  • @onehardtosolvekase6670
    @onehardtosolvekase66708 ай бұрын

    I’m still trying to figure out and find the rest of the video of what happened in the second part of the last clip with the old men

  • @Ka_Daver
    @Ka_Daver11 ай бұрын

    17:00 if you catch this biker on the car lane you can hit him too.

  • @disf7495

    @disf7495

    10 ай бұрын

    Fr fr

  • @mug_Y
    @mug_Y11 ай бұрын

    On the 3 clip the biker was drivning on the wrong side

  • @johnholmes6897
    @johnholmes689711 ай бұрын

    Damn decent of that biker to hand out stuff for cops

  • @tinker3962
    @tinker396211 ай бұрын

    Karens .... running the green church on the path. Take up a collection. Drone, drone, drone .... snooze.

  • @montyswingwell5945
    @montyswingwell594511 ай бұрын

    Cool fist bump bro

  • @stevef1525
    @stevef15253 ай бұрын

    I drove my bike in 1979 from Austin Texas to the end of the Keys , then from Florida to Los Angeles , then back to Austin , without a problem , is it Americans or bikers , met some great people , what happened USA 😢😢😢😢😢

  • @paulpotvin3822
    @paulpotvin382211 ай бұрын

    27:34 - "...No one bothered to stop and at least ask if he was ok and if he needs some help" while there are at least 3 vehicles stopped and one of them a police officer. Some commentary on these videos are pure stupidity....

  • @gopherchucksgamingnstuff2263
    @gopherchucksgamingnstuff226311 ай бұрын

    NO ONE in the bike community would EVER use a car as a weapon on a biker. That is one of the worst fears bikers have. An entitled Karen or Kevin in a Taho

  • @lukavuksic5729
    @lukavuksic572911 ай бұрын

    I don't know what these biker drivers think they are, great job you smashed his mirror, you made him more dangerous then before!

  • @mathew85

    @mathew85

    11 ай бұрын

    Well they aren't the smartest people 😅

  • @vellcore

    @vellcore

    11 ай бұрын

    They smash the mirrors to make it illegal to drive the car on public roads so more bikers don't get endangered 🤗

  • @mathew85

    @mathew85

    11 ай бұрын

    @@vellcore if they wanted that the bikers could just stop riding lol they are their own biggest threat 😆

  • @loftyintentions1985

    @loftyintentions1985

    11 ай бұрын

    Smashing someone's mirror doesn't make that person more dangerous considering they're not using it in the first place.

  • @vellcore

    @vellcore

    11 ай бұрын

    @@mathew85 So you're an advocate for not letting people do what they enjoy? What a sad life you must live... 😢

  • @TheRealSwampOperator
    @TheRealSwampOperator10 ай бұрын

    I can't wait untill somebody tries me like #2

  • @kylermurray1977
    @kylermurray197711 ай бұрын

    Male Karen is actually a Kevin!

  • @videowizard142
    @videowizard14210 ай бұрын

    "I have you on camera" *Tap tap tap tap tap* The most irritating thing ever.

  • @Greydawg
    @Greydawg11 ай бұрын

    6:34 "He did something dangerous, so I *made sure he'd only & always be just as dangerous by smashing his mirror* before I absolutely blast through traffic..."* Can't make this stuff up! 🤷🤷‍♀🤷

  • @mathew85

    @mathew85

    11 ай бұрын

    Funny how bikers act surprised when they do stuff to others and get a reaction. Also funny how the bikers speed off like cowards.

  • @KillSwitch7733

    @KillSwitch7733

    11 ай бұрын

    If you can't use them you don't need them 🖕 stay mad

  • @camillocorsanego123
    @camillocorsanego12311 ай бұрын

    Ok, so, (about the shoulder checking), you're trying to tell me, that in case I'm not a perfect calculator of the necessary spaces to avoid any collision, if I see a person behind me and I turn on the highway arrow, in case that person sees it and decides to accelerate wildly exactly in that moment, till where I should turn, or beyond it, then I should take another route? So basically whether I can come back, or not, after a long day at work, is someone else's will?

  • @demonboy12
    @demonboy1210 ай бұрын

    Elderly maan sounds like the guy from the mrs bouquet show lol

  • @spunkmonkey69
    @spunkmonkey6911 ай бұрын

    great video

  • @Motorcycle-Moments

    @Motorcycle-Moments

    11 ай бұрын

    Thank you so much!

  • @Gixer750pilot
    @Gixer750pilot11 ай бұрын

    @13:30 the biker shaking his head whilst undertaking traffic !!!!

  • @adriangottau8244
    @adriangottau824411 ай бұрын

    Algunos motociclistas se creen los dueños de la calle y se ocasiona esto

  • @damudfishh
    @damudfishh11 ай бұрын

    2:00 i have those gloves lol

  • @Gixer750pilot
    @Gixer750pilot11 ай бұрын

    @19:52 in the Uk you do not have to stop for a temporary traffic light if you can see the way is clear

  • @Wh1t3Rabb1t
    @Wh1t3Rabb1t10 ай бұрын

    13:59 lmao thats where i live pftttt

  • @loftyintentions1985
    @loftyintentions198511 ай бұрын

    Happy bum the police week.🤦🏻‍♂️

  • @buckleupbuttercup7442
    @buckleupbuttercup744211 ай бұрын

    I would like to see you do a video of the stereotypical American style patch wearing biker getting into confronts not just people that ride a lot.

  • @trucker_husband0321
    @trucker_husband032111 ай бұрын

    Hahaha u got my old college professor on here the guy in the Mvc shirt is from my college Missouri valley college 😂😂😂😂😂 he hates motorcycles he exaggerated in a lecture how they she be outlawed 😂😂😂😂😂

  • @skulldozer9773
    @skulldozer977311 ай бұрын

    cool channel you have my sub

  • @Motorcycle-Moments

    @Motorcycle-Moments

    11 ай бұрын

    Thanks buddy! I appreciate that! Welcome!

  • @skulldozer9773

    @skulldozer9773

    11 ай бұрын

    @@Motorcycle-Moments no prob i just appreciate when i see a good channel especially a road rage channel

  • @user-ow7ny2np1w
    @user-ow7ny2np1w11 ай бұрын

    5:50 yes he didn't use signals, but you also do NOT overtake on a round about and he's ahead of the biker, therefore, although he's an arse for not signalling, there's was 0 danger unless the biker wanted to pull an illegal move

  • @marksherrit5874
    @marksherrit587410 ай бұрын

    The yellow van did nothing wrong. Ok could've indicated...certainly but biker should not be trying to undertake on a roundabout.

  • @Whistlen_Dixie
    @Whistlen_Dixie10 ай бұрын

    Damn I thought I was gonna see some bad ass American biker’s. I didn’t know you were talking about English dorks on mopeds.

  • @jakethebritishpatriot
    @jakethebritishpatriot11 ай бұрын

    Now everyone saying tht all these bikers in the wrong most of them are but tht jeep driver literally trying to run them off the road is the worst thing Tht must scare the living shit out them bikers even tho they act tough there scared

  • @jonnybeach4944
    @jonnybeach494410 ай бұрын

    Friends not all of these are Karens ... for example the bikes driving through walking lines directly on people backyard .. Sha actually talked to them very reasonable

  • @coreygrace4856
    @coreygrace485611 ай бұрын

    Bad drivers is part of it. If you scared you need to find a new hobby become you can't expect cars and trucks to look out for you. And I do ride bikes . Been riding buells for 16 yrs.

  • @indiana146
    @indiana14611 ай бұрын

    I once had to get a scooter fir 2 yrz as wife needed car for school run ridinig a scooter to work and back for 2 yrs Made me a better driver i became mor aware All driver's should have to ride 6 months on 2 wheel s

  • @johngelle6288
    @johngelle628811 ай бұрын

    I keep forgetting how far away dashcams can look for distance cause sometimes some these mfs seem like their creating a problem or overreacting till u realize most the dashcams have weird fov showing distance to be further

  • @mathew85

    @mathew85

    11 ай бұрын

    Some do intentionally create problems to get footage

  • @inescipriano1467
    @inescipriano146711 ай бұрын

    16.04 typical portuguese, driving around is a action movie ...

  • @nyashnader1
    @nyashnader110 ай бұрын

    This video is brought to you by the matrix. Please don’t ever ride or act like any of the people in this video, cars and bikes

  • @smartwatchonpluto
    @smartwatchonpluto9 ай бұрын

    why did the bike lane girl make it about race?

  • @MrElecterik
    @MrElecterik9 ай бұрын

    To me the pleasing action to the cops was over the top and the giftcard is questionable. I think in Europe cops are not allowed taking such a gift because it represented some kind of value and that”s not right.

  • @ozzyologist
    @ozzyologist11 ай бұрын

    Please No more bicycle videos

  • @phoenix-hy2db
    @phoenix-hy2db10 ай бұрын

    Did that old guy and is wife get out of (THEIR CAR/machine) to stop the younger guys "ruining the countryside with their damn machines" that are more eco friendly than HIS car/machine - or have I missed something? Smh.

  • @naderbaccouche4818
    @naderbaccouche481811 ай бұрын

    First

  • @Motorcycle-Moments

    @Motorcycle-Moments

    11 ай бұрын

    Well done!

  • @naderbaccouche4818

    @naderbaccouche4818

    11 ай бұрын

    @@Motorcycle-Moments thanks Bro

  • @Sum-Fuu
    @Sum-Fuu10 ай бұрын

    About a week ago I was trying to make a left onto a road that is 35 mph. There’s bushes that kind of obstruct your view. Didn’t see anyone started pulling out then out of nowhere a biker who must’ve been going 100 all of a sudden appeared, thank god I pulled a move that didn’t kill the guy but he got mad at me!! 100 in a 35. Bikers can be some of the biggest assholes

  • @LeftHandAltheos
    @LeftHandAltheos10 ай бұрын

    always "he completely forgot the turn signals" not one biker in these videos EVER turn a signal 🤡🤣

  • @markjaycox8811
    @markjaycox881111 ай бұрын

    Children, old cranky children who must have their way, Mommy!

  • @jeremyward81
    @jeremyward8111 ай бұрын

    "I have you on camera" ...words of a coward

  • @treysanders4509
    @treysanders450911 ай бұрын

    5:31 GET OUT OF THE LEFT LANE. Most irritating thing in the world. Then people wonder why they fly by them. Move out the way damn. I don’t even know why this got me pissed off lol.

  • @stubutler794
    @stubutler79410 ай бұрын

    why talk over the videos just let them play

  • @treebender-bl2du
    @treebender-bl2du10 ай бұрын

    "Why were you parked in the bike lane"? Black privilege

  • @Mo-xx9gg
    @Mo-xx9gg10 ай бұрын

    Killed a veteran! Milking it!

  • @TheDarkurthe
    @TheDarkurthe10 ай бұрын

    Man these videos have really gone downhill. These days is mostly bikers doing shit they know will cause issues and then acting affronted when the issues happen. What a shame

  • @OneFaceID
    @OneFaceID10 ай бұрын

    My favorite word if i almost crash is cyka blyat

  • @robertgrant008
    @robertgrant0089 ай бұрын

    Yeah but when we don't delivery your stuff because there's simply nowhere to park you get upset delivery drivers have a difficult job getting people their stuff so stop being a fool he's not parked up having lunch or shopping he's working and won't be there long so move on and get on with you life.

  • @ShiftedOD
    @ShiftedOD10 ай бұрын

    COLLIAN mac overreacted a little

  • @kiddO718
    @kiddO71810 ай бұрын

    3rd guy over reacted he wasn’t that close at all. He went around you lol drama queen

  • @rustyjr4260
    @rustyjr426010 ай бұрын

    The mental cyclist got punked by a handicapped women 😂😂

  • @syrenadurager
    @syrenadurager10 ай бұрын

    bikers, Carey pepper spray for these idiots, lol. they own nothing but think they do, just pepper spray anyone who touches you or your bike. Its called defending yourself. your videos will back you up and they will suffer for it. lol

  • @bebadozaga
    @bebadozaga11 ай бұрын

    those biker should be more agresasive with those plebs... i would f up any one that does it to me..

  • @harshdeepgill1427
    @harshdeepgill1427Ай бұрын

    🙏✌️👊🥷

  • @gofigure2951
    @gofigure295110 ай бұрын

    Bikers are wrong. You do the things you do and get mad and break the property of others. By the design of your bikes you are low visability. It is Your responsibility to be seen. But you cant be seen whipping through traffic between lanes. Once you do that, you are wrong.... of course its only boys playing at being men that act like that. Real men just ride... and do it right.

  • @not-stefan-not8312
    @not-stefan-not831210 ай бұрын

    womens

  • @tylermanion2846
    @tylermanion284611 ай бұрын

    That bike that chased the car cause he passed was completely in the wrong, his vid clearly shows the car passing (fully in its lane) then changing to the inside well after the pass, he had no reason to go off on the driver

  • @markB40
    @markB4011 ай бұрын

    No doubt that some of the cars did the wrong thing but some of the so called bikers are just F Witt’s

  • @mamabosan3879
    @mamabosan387911 ай бұрын

    Why mostly bikers so sensitive.?

  • @SaltySeattleCyclist

    @SaltySeattleCyclist

    11 ай бұрын

    Because when accidents happen, they stand to lose the most, because that's how physics works. And car drivers consistently treat cyclists and bikers like they're garbage, when we're just human beings trying to get where they are going in one piece, *just like them*.

  • @mamabosan3879

    @mamabosan3879

    11 ай бұрын

    @Salty Seattle Driver I am aware.. But I am a biker too..

  • @goon_eg1089

    @goon_eg1089

    10 ай бұрын

    ​​@@mamabosan3879 think it's the ones who have not wrecked yet, people pull out and try to murder me all the time, I stay zen, oddly it always happens when I'm slowing down while they stare directly at me.

  • @xXxDarkSoulxXx
    @xXxDarkSoulxXx8 ай бұрын

    Instead of handing out wrist bands & gift cards to those cops he should be giving them each a copy of the constitution. You know, that document they all swore to an oath to uphold but instead violate citizens rights at every opportunity.

  • @jasonalexander4343
    @jasonalexander434311 ай бұрын

    All I seen was men just talking shit to each other.

  • @Lukiluk862
    @Lukiluk86211 ай бұрын

    Sorry but 90℅ of this movi was rly boring

  • @TheMaskedheel
    @TheMaskedheel11 ай бұрын

    The thumb nail of the old man is that even in here? On no circumstance would that be cool. And if it’s not and it’s used to get views that is disgusting.

  • @poncethegayboi
    @poncethegayboi10 ай бұрын

    Cringe blue line

  • @donagar73
    @donagar7311 ай бұрын

    Lame and misleading video and content. I am a biker for 30 years. We are not saints. Fighting back is largely pointless. These kindof of incidences are a day to day occurrence. Get used to it. A lot of idiot bikers as well. Give these drivers a 'slightly' sarcastic shake of the head/helmet at their behaviour . Demonstrates that you have have no aggression but have seen their mistake/stupidity. Works wonders. Promise. 15:13 Mum might be a bit much but not so sure, maybe she has been 'terrorrised' for some time??? We don't know. We are seeing a version of events. Dunno. 16:37 Why are we identifying a 'biker' as the saviour. No doubt he did good. But it could have been anyone. Don't fight back. We are all road users. It can be a pain at the best of times. So chill. There are exceptions :)

  • @Suzukibob69
    @Suzukibob6911 ай бұрын

    Lmao the cyclist getting mad at the fedex driver is childish. Instead of getting in one cyclist’s way, why block traffic for cars? Entitled and childish.

  • @trueMaxi
    @trueMaxi11 ай бұрын

    If the lane is legal, go on. If it's not, go on.

  • @Ligmaarse
    @Ligmaarse11 ай бұрын

    U outta google what “fought” and “fighting” means because that literally doesn’t happen at all here lool it’s more like verbal disagreements with bikers overreacting and blazing through traffic. Good video tho 🎉

  • @andre6715

    @andre6715

    11 ай бұрын

    "... Слишком остро... "? Ха-ха.. Да некоторые байкеры здесь похожи на плачущих девчонок! Считают что они всегда и везде заметны. Сами при этом нарушают скорость и разметку и считают это нормой!

  • @453543ification

    @453543ification

    11 ай бұрын

    Fights can be not only physical

  • @Ligmaarse

    @Ligmaarse

    11 ай бұрын

    @@453543ification yes there are verbal fights but let’s be real on a KZread video people are expecting fights not arguments but hey that’s just me

  • @wraithyoshidj6702
    @wraithyoshidj670211 ай бұрын

    Why would sit there and talk this long with these old gizzers. I'd drive around them

  • @Ringwolf1
    @Ringwolf111 ай бұрын

    If you hit a biker or a pedestrian a bicycler or an animal....you're on my blacklist.

  • @Greydawg
    @Greydawg11 ай бұрын

    16:56 Ahh, the Seattle guy; he's always trying to teach people a lesson (which I *kinda* get), but one day *someone will teach him a lesson* & we'll perhaps never see him again. ⏲ Not sure how many more times we'll see this particular cammer *smash parked cars, throw trash on the street & deliberately make dangerous situations vastly worse* before we won't see any more of his videos, sadly.

  • @stojanjankovic5669

    @stojanjankovic5669

    11 ай бұрын

    he is a male Karen. I wish I get approached by such a justice warrior... He saw it is a woman and then did it. If it was some big guy he would pass. He will get his karma. Sadly he won't post it.

  • @mythoughts105

    @mythoughts105

    11 ай бұрын

    The woman is parked, she has her hazards on, there's no traffic being held up. Another self entitled snowflake who is just a bully waiting to get a thrashing.

  • @SaltySeattleCyclist

    @SaltySeattleCyclist

    11 ай бұрын

    ​@@stojanjankovic5669 you saw everything that I saw. I had no idea if the car was even occupied, let alone their gender, ethnicity, or what they had for breakfast. Don't park in a lane of traffic, and there will be no problem!

  • @SaltySeattleCyclist

    @SaltySeattleCyclist

    11 ай бұрын

    ​​​@@mythoughts105 Is a bike lane a parking space for cars? No. It's an active lane of traffic. "No traffic being held up"...Cyclists are traffic! Do you think I can pass through cars like a ghost? There is ZERO reason to deliberately park a car in a bike lane, yet people do it all the time. Bike lanes exist to protect cyclists and scooter riders from cars, because cars are the most dangerous thing around them. So when CAR drivers decide to just unlawfully take that space back for themselves, that's the real entitlement mentality. And NO, it doesn't matter if they have their hazard lights on. Those do NOT give you the right to park wherever you want.

  • @mythoughts105

    @mythoughts105

    11 ай бұрын

    @@SaltySeattleCyclist So that gives YOU the right to brake someone's mirror even if they are disabled? 🤔 What if it was an emergency, but wait a minute you would know correct? 🤔 You have a camera you can hand it over to the police, but wait a minute YOU are the authority to dish out punishment.🤔 If you as a biker rides wrong, a car can knock your bike out (not you) but wait a minute its the great honorable YOU so it's all good.🤔 Get the picture ???

  • @potg2
    @potg210 ай бұрын

    stereotype....always the same

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