I am living in Norway, a country well known for mountains and fjords. After wearing out two hub motors in a short time. Changing to mid motors was the solution, biking in summer and winter with a lot of snow. Both of my mid motors are working well after a clean up and some oil. Thank you for the non nonsense up loads. :)

@samguapo4573

3 жыл бұрын

what modifications did you do?

@jarikinnunen1718

3 жыл бұрын

In Finland`s small hills the front hub work well. In snow its weight give better grip and tires or chain not have excessive wear. It easy to replace or put other wheel.

@arnehusby1420

3 жыл бұрын

@@jarikinnunen1718 Yes, in winter the front hub will drag you out of the snow. Anyway, we are all in this for transport and fun. No matter what gear we have. :)

@maxwaters1461

3 жыл бұрын

Hmmmm, never heard of Norway, I'll have to Google it. What is a "mod motor", nothing came up in a Google search on that.

@arnehusby1420

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxwaters1461 Just a misprint. Mid motors. Norway is a country in Scandinavia, North Europe.

Just wanted to add a note from a senior (64 year old) point of view. My wife and I each have a Townie 7D, with 750 W 48v mid-drive systems that we have had for the last six years. We ride every day about 13 miles with a couple of moderate grades, one of which is pretty steep and all are paved. We have plenty of power climbing and can exceed 20 MPH on the flats, if we so desire (we usually cruise about 13 MPH). We have over 7500 miles on these systems. I just put a new Bafang 750W, 48v on my bike with a 20ah battery which my bike mechanic recommended. Great system. The Townies are solid bikes and we love riding them. Thanks for the video!

My first e-bike was a store-bought 350w ebike with a rear hub motor, but after watching JohnnyNerdout's mid-drive is better rant, I went and bought a BBS02 mid-drive and put it on my own Cannondale Quick 4, and OMG, what a difference. I can't even believe it. The mid drive is so much more powerful (granted it is 750w) and so much better to drive. Since it was my own bike, it was already more comfortable to ride, plus the display, the throttle, and the performance is just unmatched. I have become a believer.

@JohnnyNerdOut

2 жыл бұрын

😀

I ride a mid drive since 4 years, but before that I had a front hub drive lent to me for a whole summer, so I feel like I have some experience. Mid drive feels superior for ride quality, low center of gravity, less mass on the wheels etc. However it tends to wear out the drivetrain significantly faster. But. The feeling of a front hub was always like a 4WD vehicle to me. Pull on the front while I also pedal and have power at the rear. Felt always like I can take off better than with mid drive. Even on some steep hills you can just change to your lowest gear, start pedaling like hell and add that power from the front hub and have a great sensation of starting power. I mean what you say is only true if you are lazy and dont pedal, then your motor might struggle. When you do pedal in your lower gears and add the power from the motor you'll still be doing great.

I'm in Utah and burned up my Amazon hub motor going up a hill over the weekend, I need to upgrade and that's how I found this channel.

Cool video, thanks for posting. I'm over 60 and not in super great health, but I love riding my fat ebike with its hub motor. It is astonishingly fast, comfortable and gets me up all the hills in my area. When I got my ebike in 2018, there were no mid drives that were price comparable, plus I don't ride in a particularly hilly area with no plans to ride dirt or mountains. I honestly would have considered a mid drive if there had been one to consider, but.... I am totally psyched to ride my ebike. It gets me off the couch several times a week. As a bonus, working on it is a secondary joy I get from it. This ebike has been a total win for me and I would be riding right now if it weren't fkn' raining!

Great honest advice.Went from 1000w hub to 750 watt mid drive .Like two different worlds .Keep up the great ebike themes.

I have a 2000 watt hub motor with no gearing and has no issues with hill climbs

Fellow Salt Laker. Glad I found your channel. Thanks!

I am glad I researched before I decided that I like riding off road to watch for wilde animals (deer, foxes, coyotes, bears, etc) Pennsylvania is pretty hilly and with my bafang 1500 watt mid drive I go up some pretty steep hills...granted my legs are pumping because this is exercise for me, and my cardiologist said aerobic exercise, and biking does it. Built it in october, stopped from mid december till march, and am now over a 1000 miles ridden...I love it!

@noforyoutubepremium3108

3 жыл бұрын

Way to go, Bro!

@ChristopherT_

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like where I am. Im in Western pa about 60 miles north of Pittsburgh

I got a 750 Watt geared hub motor on a Rad Mini. Had it over two years and over 3500 miles so far. Here, in N. VA we got a fair number of hills. I would of course like to have a bit more power, but with pedaling I am able to conquer practically all of the local MTB trails.

@trekkeruss

3 жыл бұрын

I live here in N VA as well. Most all the hills we have quite short. Regardless, if you had a mid-drive, you would definitely feel a difference. It is why ALL high end e-mtb's are mid drive. Not saying hub-drive is not good, just that it is more optimal for flatter terrain and speed applications.

@tallcool1jeff

2 жыл бұрын

@@trekkeruss come on just tell the truth midline Motors are far superior LOL

@tallcool1jeff

2 жыл бұрын

@@trekkeruss all these Hub motor guys they have to stick up for their Hub Motors because they have one LMAO

@davidelliott5843

2 жыл бұрын

Hub motors are fit & forget. Mid drives get slathered in nut & crap. They also have to deliver the high torque of pedal speed - gearing losses.

@Altema22

2 жыл бұрын

@@trekkeruss High end e-mtb's are mid drive because unsprung weight is a critical factor. I do mountain bike trails with 30% grades on my e-bike, and my biggest problem was too much torque causing the front wheel to lift. That's with a hub motor.

Listen to this guy -- he REALLY knows what is is talking about! He may have a little GOOOFY presentation style but the message he is trying to convey is 100% correct. I have been a biker for 40-years and also swear by Mid-Drive E-Bikes!

I think that this is great advice. An extra bit of information: if you want to cruise roads at 30mph, 2,000 watt+, 40+ amps will do the job all day. If you want to have excellent performance in all biking situations below 20mph, mid-drive wins

@georgeforeman89

Жыл бұрын

I've never owned one, but from what I understand, hub motors just aren't very reliable. I'm sure there are good and bad ones, but overall, I think mid drives are more reliable.

@chrisE815

Жыл бұрын

@@georgeforeman89 I don't think that is accurate. Both styles require maintenance but both should be very reliable- with the edge going to hub motors. Don't push them past their limit and they should last a long time if you buy a quality motor.

Never apologize for speaking the truth and wanting to help others. Thank you. 👍

My Tandem has a 750 watt rear geared hub motor and a 350 watt front geared hub motor. My wife and I plus bike are 400 lbs. We go up all hills in Colorado Springs without pedaling if we wish.

@difflocktwo

3 жыл бұрын

What diameter wheels?

@FightFilms

2 жыл бұрын

2wd hubbies ftw

This channel and you JohnnyNerdOut, freaking ROCK! "Torque Multiplication" A mid-drive's perhaps most significant advantage is having adjustable/selectable torque multiplication, by driving it's power through the many possible different gear ratios that are available from your rear cassette. Small sprocket in back = higher speed w/ a little less torque. Switching to the larger sprockets gives you a little less speed but each step multiplies the torque BIGLY! When batteries and motors finally become a lot more available, and somewhat more reasonably priced, I'm definitely converting my small frame, 26" tire Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc Craig's List bike to a Bafang mid-drive Ebike.

@izzy99891

3 жыл бұрын

Your doing a great job with your tutorials,no graphics necessary.Keep it simple " just the facts as you see them.

@TheAgentAssassin

3 жыл бұрын

Good call and don't underestimate the BBS02 if you want to save money , it's fairly cheap and has plenty of torque.

@Kaduyett

3 жыл бұрын

The 750w Bafang and a 48v battery is

@glennjrbeck

3 жыл бұрын

@@madmanwheelies6157 did you buy that battery or make it thanks

@maxwaters1461

3 жыл бұрын

In other words, "driving it's power" or transmitting it's power through a transmission.

I thought that was a great explanation of the difference between hub motors and mid drive motors. Loved your analogy with VHS and DVD, thought that was spot on. Keep up the great work, TY.

I'm sure that overall the mid-motor setup is superior, but for my needs and money a hub motor is perfect. Things have changed somewhat recently, but in the beginning mid-motors generally did not have throttles. This is really a huge loss of use to me. Not that I rely on using throttle only often, I do not. But when I take my bike out through the trails I am enjoying the scenery and looking for wildlife to take photos of so occasionally I will use the throttle while standing on the pedals to get a better view. I have 3.7K miles on my bike and I have been through water, mud, soft sand and yes, up hills. My take is this: If you are looking to get from point A to point B as quick as possible then get a mid-drive. If you are a bit more casual and don't look good in spandex (and want to save some money) a hub motor will work perfectly fine for you.

Great points Johnny. I live in the SF Bay Area with lots of street hills to ride. Nice gentle hills for the most part but the hub motor on my bike is either at 750 watts or Zero watts. This cycle is repeating every street, up and then down. 750w to 0w over and over throughout the ride. My new bike has 325 miles and something has burned up, hopefully it's the controller and the bike shop is shipping me a new one - good on them. But I see where this is going, thanks to you and others with more experience sharing this info. Pretty clear to me that mid drives are the choice for hilly street terrain and beyond. Subscribed!

Haha maybe we’ll get to a point where people will ride hub motors for the nostalgia in the future (playing off your VHS analogy) I got a bit of a different request for you, and definitely not a demand at all, this channel is an amazing resource. What’s the possibility of you doing a video dedicated to adaptive cycles? Like recumbent tadpole trikes, delta trikes, handcycles etc? They’re all different beasts, and it can be difficult to weigh the pros and cons with the hub drive vs mid drive and extra parts needed for conversion. There’s very subtle differences with each that can make an easy first DIY conversion (on a diamond frame) into a much more involved, long, expensive and sometimes downright frustrating project on an adaptive cycle. Love the vids my man, you just give the facts and opinions in a matter of fact way. Something we need more of these days.

@JohnnyNerdOut

3 жыл бұрын

I would love to do a video highlighting an adaptive trike, just need to do a conversion on one 😀

@ethangillese

3 жыл бұрын

@@JohnnyNerdOut haha for sure! Depending on your area there’s probably an adaptive sports association or rental company nearby that could be worked with. I know from personally experience that tons of adaptive programs/associations are always wanting/needing more exposure, but often don’t have the budget for KZread vids and other types of advertisement outside of Instagram, etc. Cheers!

Great video, Thanks! My BBSHD mid-drive that you helped me build just crossed the 1000mile mark and is still going strong. Only thing I've had to replace is my brakes (x2). Thank you for all you provide the community.

@JohnnyNerdOut

Жыл бұрын

That’s great 😀 I’m still waiting for someone to crack that 100,000 mile mark, maybe you?

I just wanted to say, thank you for always adding nuance in your explanations.

I wanted to Sincerely Thank you for explaining in Beautiful Detail the differences between a mid drive Motor VS a rear hub Motor. I’m new to the eBike world 🌎 & was looking for information to educate myself on the differences before purchasing a bike. I was extremely close to pulling the trigger on a $9k Cab Motorworks (Recon) which is a rear hub driven Bike. After educating myself specifically from you & a few others I just purchased a Beautiful, Made in the USA 🇺🇸 Zero FXE Electric ⚡️ Mid Drive Motorcycle 🏍. It just became available yesterday. It’s around $2k more than the Recon but is so much more Motorcycle 🏍 & has such good warranties Etc compared to the Recon. Thank you again. 🍻 👊. I’m definitely a subscriber for life. Stay Safe & Stay Free.

It has been my experience that there are advantages & disadvantages to both types. If you are running a 750 watt hub motor with the same cassette & chainring as a 750 watt mid drive, you are not going to have a huge difference in overall performance. There is a reason you don't see very many 3000 watt Mid Drives & that's because Mid Drives are harder on your driveline & frame. With a hub motor putting power directly to the ground, you don't have the chain whip on gear changes & should you break your chain or have other mechanical problems, you can still use your throttle to get home. Parts replacement are far easier & usually plug & play where mid drives require complete dis-assembly. We have new riders on day trips using both mid drives & hub motors & the ability for customers to get rolling again using just the throttle on the hub motors has saved us countless times having to manually downshift to a low gear. I wouldn't rule out hub motors, just get a good one.

@finlandjourney6065

2 жыл бұрын

We need stronger chains like motorcycles have or probably something inbetween. Cos that's the weakest link. Cassettes are quite sturdy as they are. There are chains marketed for e-bikes so perhaps those could be used with higher wattage mid-drives like tuned up 3000W BBSHD. With straight out of the box 1000W regular chains are enough and a way to keep things cheap. There's also belt drive instead of chains but dunno about the strength of those.

@arronjohnston742

2 жыл бұрын

daytriker🤣🤣🤣" If you are running a 750 watt hub motor with the same cassette & chainring as a 750 watt mid drive, you are not going to have a huge difference in overall performance." 🤣🤣🤣 absolute bullshit!! the difference is night an day between them, mids will out perform hubs massively in every way, hill climbing, load carrying, range you can travel, not to mention weight distribution which helps make the bikes handle and brake better ...... 🤣🤣

@daytriker

2 жыл бұрын

@@arronjohnston742 Your complete B.S. is what gives you away as an amateur. Simple physics will tell you that 750 watts is 750 watts regardless of whether it is in a Mid Drive or Hub Motor. Remember I said with the same chainring & cassette. While Mid drives can produce more torque, hub motors do not have the power losses going through your drive line & deliver power far better to the road than a Mid Drive. As for efficiency & range, that comes down to your entire set up not just choosing between a Hub Motor or Mid Drive. We have had both on our Trikes in practical use out on the road so this is from actual user experience not from theoretical reviews n YT. Hub motors for smoother power delivery & high speed - Mid Drives for grunt climbing hills but poorer power delivery & shorter driveline life.

@arronjohnston742

2 жыл бұрын

@@daytriker 🤣🤣🤣you have no idea what you're talking about, i know from something called actual experience having built both with thousands of miles on them, mid drives absolutely WILL out perform hubs everytime in climbing ability out right speed cruise speed an mileage handling towing ability hauling full saddle bags ........ i'd rather rake my balls across broken glass than EVER go backwards to a hub 🤮 .... you remind me of an idiot self proclaimed e-bike builder/seller in another video trying to tell a 350lb 6' 4" guy all he needs is a 500w hub 🤣🤣🤣👎👎👎

@sethtenrec

Жыл бұрын

@@daytriker You’re missing a very simple point, the torque from the mid drive is amplified by the gear that you’re in. In the hub drive it isn’t. You shouldn’t call other people “amateur” when you yourself are ignorant.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Their is a lot of misconceptions. Especially when some (not all) compare the power of some hub motors to high powered motors which are designed to take more power. I loved the reference you gave in relation to over vaulting and pushing higher amps generating more heat which causes inefficiency. Keep up the vids mate 👍🏿

I have a BBSHD and my wife has a hub motor bike from Decathlon. I had to change the crank plate on her new bike because she couldn't get up any hills, and would always have to get off and push. With the much smaller plate on the front she manages much better. The bike has a lower top speed, but the motor cuts assist at 25kph anyway, so this isn't really a problem. The thing with hub motors is they're a lot cheaper. The BBSHD motor cost more than her bike did.

Well said. Electric vehicles either cars etc or bikes are still new to the masses (like me) so it's good to have some straight talk from someone who is passionate about the subject.

Thanks for the insight. A Electric bike is in my future.

Great video. Couldn’t agree more with you in this video. There is a big misconception and certainly a lot of misinformation provided to consumers. Most of the big brands try to sell consumers on more wattage which as you explained is not the only factor to consider what buying an ebike. We love to take customers out on test rides comparing a 250watt mid drive vs 500+ hub motors and each and every time the look on the individuals face is that of surprise. A fellow shop owner here on Ottawa has been selling hub motors for years now and we finally got the chance the go for a ride together and his look of surprise after riding a mid drive convinced him in under 10 minutes that the mid drive is the way to go! Thanks for putting out the video and keep up the great work educating people on ebikes 🤛

I put a 48v, 500w Tongsheng TSDZ2 Mid-motor kit on my Trek bicycle a few months ago. Awesome! Love the torque sensor. Quite and powerful. Not rip your guts out power, but with the standard 42 tooth front sprocket and 8 gears, I have plenty of power for hills while still having as much speed as I need. The "Bionic Legs" effect is real! If I need to go faster, I'll hop on the Triumph, lol.

Just finished my first ebike conversion using the BBSHD kit and my 14 year old Scott Reflex 30 mountain bike. It's a monster. Love it. Having said that, hub motors are great for smaller ebikes. I also own three Jetson Bolt Pro, and they are awesome for RV/campgrounds. There are some great hub builds/folding bikes that seem pretty cool. Not as cool as my mid drive, but still cool! Keep making the great content!

@rwo6211

2 жыл бұрын

11 months later... I have a lectric XP Lite (48volt, 300watt geared rear hub motor, 20" wheels) and a DIY Cyclone 3,000w middrive 52volt 21ah, 700c wheels, 7 speed 13T-32T rear cassette, and 44T front chainring. All of JNO's comments are correct especially if compared with the same rear wheel diameter. But as shown by @Dbf Crell (and my own experience with my Lectric XP Lite), a lot of today's hill climbing geared rear hub motor bikes (like my Lite which can climb 12 degree hills in PAS 3), seem to be able to climb hills (I think) because of two factors: a) smaller 20" wheel diameter, and b) lower ratio gearing in the hub. But then top speed is only 20 mph, or 28 mph. (Top speed on the Cyclone mid-drive is 40mph in 7th top gear, and 0-20mph in 6 seconds (in 5th gear).

I live in pa. And like a 30 mile radius is all flat ware I live. I have a ecotric rocket, my first e bike and so far, 600 miles, works better than i expected very happy with it. But I cant wait to try your mid drive set up. I'm searching locally as we speak for a nice fat bike. And love your truthful videos.

I like to think of it this way. Your hub motor is a helper. With the mid drive, I’m the helper. If you are a commuting flat lander, and in no real hurry, a hub motor should be just fine. If it’s hilly and you’d like to have some fun, that a mid drive is needed. An advantage for the hub, much less wear on the drive train.

@rafaelmejia5988

3 жыл бұрын

I'm with you 100%. I have both. When commuting, the hub drive is the answer. It accelerates better and maintains the speed better.

@utubeape

2 жыл бұрын

The public should have Hubs Hate Hills or something similar always in the mind before choosing an ebike

@pacs0508

2 жыл бұрын

@@utubeape 👍TO YOUR EMOJI!

Thank you so much Johnny for your invaluable information, highly appreciate it, have a great day, keep it up the outstanding work.

Great video, felt like two friends just chatting about bikes 👍

Thanks, good explanation. I started with hub drive, then Bafang BBS mid drive, and now Yamaha mid. I love the Yamaha, but in many ways the Bafang is better, and cheaper, you can easily modify the performance parameters. Here in UK, we are restricted to 250W continuous, which is more than adequate for me, I ride very hilly routes and enjoy the workout with just enough assistance. If you want 5000W or whatever, get a motorbike.

@SimonBauer7

2 жыл бұрын

the 250w is just a bs lable to please lawmakers if you meassure them yourself and some people did they are getting power outputs of up to 600-650w and like 400w continous

I agree with you 100% geographical location plays a big part, I live in Brooklyn New York I don't need a mid drive My 750 watt Hub Motor motor works just fine around here, but if I were to go somewhere with hills and aggressive trails it would be mid drive all day long, and like my grandpappy used to say you don't send a boy into do a man's job.🚴‍♂️💨👍👍✌🤙🤙👋👋

@JohnnyNerdOut

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, exactly!

@kenneth7197

2 жыл бұрын

I live in San Francisco with a lot of massive hills.I have a Juiced Bike Rip Current model with 750 watt hub drive motor. It actually gets up the hills pretty good. A physically fit rider could get away with a hub drive motor here. But of course if I had more money I would get a mid drive to cruise around with.

Just bought a 10yo Specialized Hardrock for $250, looks in good shape. Pick it up on Sunday and I can measure the bottom bracket, it should be 68mm. Being new to this I want to make sure. Going with the BBS02 kit that has a 17.5ah with samsung cells. the kit is $889 on Amazon. Thx for your work making these vids.

I built 750 watt mid drive and 1000 watt hub motor bikes. I live in West By God Virginia. My 16 mile daily ride includes a steep 1/2 mile climb and a 1 1/2 mile long climb ending in about a 1/4 mile 40 degree assault. No comparison. The mid mount climbs no problen Hub drive? Stays in the garage

@Shindinru

3 жыл бұрын

Ya, being able to gear low with a mid-drive makes all the difference here. (Also from WV.) The guys over at endless sphere calculated that I need about a 4Kw hub motor to keep from burning it out on these hills with the loads I carry.

@madmanwheelies6157

3 жыл бұрын

I have bbshd 52v 41.4ah 21700 cells on my custom hardtail just the frame left btwin 26"medium frame rockshox sektor fork dt swiss carbon wheels front deore xt hub rear stock no name 🤭 kmc x9el gold chain and 9speed deore xt cassete with 203mm front deore slx rotor centerlock rear 203mm avid g3cs and stock tektro auriga comp brakes 🤣stops good next thing is to put deores 4pot brakes front and rear and maxxis hookworm tyres and the beauty is done 🥰🥰 reached 44mph downhill no problems but need those hookworms 😎😎✌🏻🖐🏻

Great explanation! Weird analogies are the best.

Great content .Power and gearing .. Most people don't know a low that low is slow speed , but high power ..but.. Man 2021.. I haven't seen a DVD In more than 5 years..Its in the cloud..

@JohnnyNerdOut

3 жыл бұрын

HAHA, I already need to do an update :)

Well I've got a Rad Rover with a geared rear hub motor. It has 750 watts I live in southern Oregon it's very hilly. One of the other things I like about this rad Rover is the fact I have a throttle on the right hand so if I'm going through say a creek bed with large rocks I don't have to be pedaling in order to get power to the rear tire I can have my pedals at the highest point for clearance over said rocks where is my friend with his center drive motor has to be pedaling the whole time. I'm an experienced Moto guy been racing dirt bikes most of my life. And while everything you say is correct my friend and his wife just went out and bought two giant mid drive bicycles for about $9,000 each. And like you said on the steep stuff with being able to change the gearing they work great but my bike cost $1,400 and on the faster stuff there bikes can't keep up with mine. I also own two zero electric motorcycles.

@JohnnyNerdOut

3 жыл бұрын

Don’t tell them this, but they got RIIIIIIIIIPPPED OOOOFFF!😀

To sum it up gearing gives advantage to mid-drive. Driven over driver. Convert rpm into torque through gear ratios. The worst part of hubs is the weight. Horrible trying to jump or bunny hop the wheel feels stuck to the ground. It's not nice.

My little Lectric can put out about 1hp (~800w) for a short time (48v x 19a). One HP means 550 ft-lbs per second. In other words, 1 HP can lift a 550lb weight one foot per second. It's certainly true that a mid-motor can do its thing through an extreme gear reduction, but the fact remains a hub motor consuming 800W can do the same "lifting" as a mid-drive--as long as hub rpm's are kept up. So both motors can do the same amount of "work," but only if the rpm's are comparable, and here the mid-drive setup can deliver far better gearing for steep slopes.

@rwo6211

2 жыл бұрын

@richard iredale - I have both the Lectric XP Lite (20" wheels, 48v, 300-720w motor),and two mid-drives (a Cyclone 3,000w and a Bafang BBS02 750w, both 52v on 700c wheels). See my reply to @ivanh3. The Lite can also (remarkably) climb 10-13 degree hills remarkably well but note the 20" wheels. Those same hills (and steeper) can be conquered by both middrives, but the later can also reach 40 mph and 30 mph respectively (and yet the BBS02 bike is about the same weight as the 45 lb Lite). Also by eing able to really gear down on the mid-drives, both the motor, controller and pack are much cooler and less stressed on the mid-drives. Also better range when motor is working in its optimal rpm and current draw (both allowed by user selectable gearing of the mid-drive).

Fantastic video. Thanks Johnny!

All the geared Geared Hub motors I am familiar with have a 5:1 actual internal gear reduction . Most midrives are 9:1. Where motors can change also is the motor coul winding itself. They can be wound for more low end torque with resultant lower top speed. The more turns of winding per stator arm, the greater the starting torque and the lower the top speed. Some hub motor brands like MAC offer different motor windings. 6, 8, 10, 12. Fir high power motors like qs direct drive motors I think the windings go down as far as 3t. I agree that if a mid drive is available, get it, for the average person who just doesn't know. Although I happily use both.

@steveshea7725

10 ай бұрын

"Motor coil winding "

The good thing about physics is that it doesn't care if you believe in it or not, it's still physics!

@JohnnyNerdOut

3 жыл бұрын

😂🙌

@cr1m203

3 жыл бұрын

I agree!!!!

ARE YOU SAYING THERE'S SOMETHIN WRONG WITH VHS!!! say that again. say that ONE MORE TIME! 😂😂😂😂

@goncalovazpinto6261

3 жыл бұрын

also, MORE CARTOONS! when do I get my cartoons?! 😁

My first ebike that I build myself back in 2010 ...mod my mountain bike and put a front 1000w hub motor gearless(as there none at that time, at least I had no knowledge of them anyway), it could climp me from standstill to 45% hill without an issue ..the controller was massive, the batteries I use back then were 4x 12v SLA 7Ah, it was a BEAST of power

1 item you left out was the loss due to the extra gears in the mid-drive. Hub motors are direct drive on the rear wheel, where as the mid-motor has to go through a series of gears and chain to get to the rear wheels. And interesting experiment would be to have the exact same motors (wattage and torque) in the 2 bikes and do a side-by-side comparison. The loss due to the extra gears may surprise us.

@JohnnyNerdOut

3 жыл бұрын

I have done that. Check out my “why hub motors suck” video 😀👍

Thanks mate for differentiating the Hub with mid drive

You are right , I have a geated hub drive bafang 750w runs 1440w max .I usually adjust it to between 750 to 1000w dependent on my route. running 1500w on geared motor is just a waste.I am itching for a middrive frey bike maybe.

In a hilly area the mid drive makes most sense with shifting the gearing to fit the application. Gears are quick to shift. I am convinced.

thank you, you have probably saved me hundreds of GBP! I live in a small town, Somerset, UK. The only way out is uphill. it never occurs to me to look at the motor type, ratio nor power. very interesting.

Nearly 2000 miles on my bbs02b trek 7.5fx since April. Hg400 12-36 cassette and kmc x9e ebike chain working so nice!

@noforyoutubepremium3108

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds very nice! I too have a much older, but all alloy Trek similar in appearance to your bike. No rust or wear, looks like new, and a large frame as I am 6'3" tall / 190 lbs. I've been thinking about making it an e-bike with Bafang bbs02 mid drive motor. Did you convert it yourself? Easy or Hard? Where do you ride? I don't commute because I work from home, and near retirement age, so I'm wondering whether or not I would use it much. No where I have to be! lol Does look fun as hell! Any advice? Tips? Thanks! 😎🤘

Lol I use my rad rover for hunting and tearing up hills. I'm only 150 lbs though and in decent shape. Things eats em up for me even fully geared up with a blind and chair strapped to the back on top of my loaded saddle bags and rack. Usually will have at least 20 lbs of bait strapped to the front rack too. Also not an old man so it's pretty easy.

Thanks for info. More pics of parts will help w explaining. 👍🏽

My first ebike was a hub drive bike and while on flat surfaces it was great, but like you mentioned, hills sucked. I sold that and bought a mid drive eMTB and wow what a difference. That thing will climb a wall. Riding trails has become so much more fun since I don't have to push up steep grades anymore.

👍 I did the same thing. Rear hub motor. HimiwY cruiser. For logging roads, very steep hills. Yea it's fun,, yes it is pretty good,, but it's not what I need.It doesn't have enough torqe to be used as a atv. now I'm figuring on a middrive kit to put on the himiway to get me were I want to be, quietly as possible. Himiways are good very good for hilly blacktop roads, or smooth dirt and gravel hilly roads, but off road hills,,,,I push alot, and burn the brake pads up quick going down

Find the lightest normal bike you can buy and slap a BBSHD on it and enjoy.

I am currently enjoyed using a direct drive hub user, it has less maintenance especially on chains, brake pads and capable of engine braking that cant be done by a mid drives. Yeah you are right about mid drives. But there are pros and cons between the two.

Thanks - good clear info! Just this summer we did a family holiday to the west coast and hired e-bikes over the golden gate… I loved it and have been trying to research e-bikes since. As you have said, there’s lots of info out there but little that properly explains the fundamental differences between the motor types - I’ve been going round in circles. Fairly sure now though to get mid drive. I’m a larger bloke that’s kinder paranoid about getting an e-bike that’s nots quite powerful enough. Also want full suspension but not a mountain bike body position ride if that makes sense. Wanting a more relaxed ride position…. do you have any current suggestion in mid to late 2023?

You are so right, I put a trailer on my 500w hub drive bike, and even a slight hill makes it seem like there is no motor at all, I now want to switch to a cassete with more teeth for the top gear, but then that makes the motor pointless, I wish I knew what you have explained before I bought my bike

u do a great job of explaining your points!! I prefer dvds

I am new to E-bikes, but it took me only a couple hundred miles to learn that what Johnny is saying is exactly right. Luckily, I live in Dallas, where my hub drive works fine on the flat trails. But my next bike will be mid-drive for sure.

Hi I have got the ebike bug bad and have been trying out everything available and agree with you entirely the only thing you don't mention is rider wight I've built a hub drive for my grandson 36V 250W ( very little lad 8 years old )and it is amazing up the steepest of hills and it never goes rung I'm very heavy and love my bafang centre drive but the drive train needs lots of up keep ... keep the good work up ED

At 8:10 you definitely have the "KNOW HOW" just keep doing what you are doing, pounding away at what you know is the right way to go.

You are exactly right with hub motors. I weigh about 260 lb and I have a bike which pulls about 1400 w but its struggles up hills. I have a dual motorbike that eats up the hills even in pas level three the nylon gears we're out quickly when you are a heavy Rider already had two gears crack in 200 MI

I live in Pennsyltaxya. I commute 30 miles round trip on a 750 watt geared hub motor every day. I like the fact that I don't worry about being stranded by a broken chain. Mids are great but my hub does great by me.

You know enough to write a book about it. Better yet you know enough to design the best of both, or to design them both better, with more features of each other within each other. For example, to make hub drive more desirable you could use 2 of them, one on the front and one on the back, BUT use them with different gear ratios. Have the rear hub use a higher gear ratio to work better at more torque, then have the front hub with lower gear ratio for more speed, and have the controller between the two to take information(torque sensor, speed sensor) and control which hub should be used at which point in the ride. But use the rear for the torque hub because weight distribution going uphill puts more weight on rear wheel. Then on flat grade weight returns to the front wheel. But on downhill grade more weight is on front wheel.

i appreciate the information. i am about to pull the trigger on something very soon. but this kind of reminds me of my hobby level rc cars/trucks/planes/drones. none of them have transmissions, they all have crazy torque from the moment you say go. obviously this is a power to weight ratio equation. electric motors tend to not need a transmission as their torque curve is flat across the rpm range, unlike say a internal combustion engine, which has the most torque at certain sweet spots in the rpm curve. i do get the point, it sounds like most people that are using a mid mount motor are under sizing their electrical motor applications and perhaps counting on a final drive line ratio to make up for the lack of power, to keep it legal. it make sense now that i am thinking about it more. i'd rather still have a huge hub motor, but now i am curious if it will climb as well as i was hoping

I thought you did a great job exsplaining the difference, if I had watched this video I would of gotten a mid drive on my himiway cobra . Soo 3 weeks in now & im gonna convert it to a 1,000 bafang mid drive, I live in a hilly area & the 750 w hub does not cut it . All good it’s the learning curve . Thanks man & I subscribed

Here’s something to think about, I’m 270 pounds 68 years old just retired need to lose weight my E bike has a 500 W hub motor geared. I don’t need anything more powerful I nor do I want anything more powerful. Because if I had something that was more powerful I would just have less exercise when I go out on my rides. When I do ride I play a game of how much Motor I actually used compared to pedal power.

For getting exercise you can use all your muscle power and your gears and have the motor assisting when needed or assisting along the way. I have no problem climbing the steepest of hills using my own power and the pedal assist along with my own power

Love your work

To stay legal and get up the hills it's got to be a mud drive in the UK with 250w limit lol. But the humble hub drive defo has its place if you dont have steep hills and are just riding not wanting to do jumps etc , especially if you up the power with a dd drive, that magic carpet feeling of going from zero all the way to max speed without having to change gear is nice and no chain wear to worry about. I'm thinking of getting the bafang g510 on my next bike, proper torque sensor rather than cadence ..

I don't know anything about hub motors but I ❤ my BBS02, which was recommended by your dog 😉

How does the rambo megatron hash out with your discussion? By the way I love this channel thank you for having it !!

Great explanation 👍

Your analogy’s work great

My preference for low-speed grunt is a large out-of-wheel motor, belt driven to rear wheel. Low complication, but better low-speed performance than DD hubmotors. Through-the-pedal-drive mid-drives are too fussy.

I’m thinking of getting a 20 inch fat tire bike and there are now quite a few options for mid drive for this size. Do all these arguments still apply equally to the smaller wheel or is it less important, and could there be an argument for too much power on the smaller sized wheel? Any advice is much appreciated

I will be adding another e-bike to the stable and I,m pretty sure it will be a mid drive, if for no other reason I want to experience mid drive. As a daily driver and weekend explorer I want the next bike to have all I need and then some.

You did a great job of explaining. So thank you for that. I think I will try to change my RadCity to a mid-drive. It's a direct-drive hub, but I sure would like more torque. Should I just completely get a new rear wheel rather than carry around that extra weigh of a wheel with a motor that is not being used?

@JohnnyNerdOut

3 жыл бұрын

It would definitely make your handling and performance better if you get your wheel rebuilt with a standard hub 👍

I just want to let you know that you were the guy who made me spend the extra €€ and get a mid drive instead of a hub motor bike I was eyeing at. Best purchase ever! I usually try to spend as much time as possible trying to research every aspect about something before making the final decision. Nobody had compared the mid drive and hub motors the way you did. And it made even more sense when I started thinking about it. Thank you!

@JohnnyNerdOut

3 жыл бұрын

Awesome!

After watching your video - I am glad that I bought a mid-drive e-bike.

My top pick right now I'll admit has a bit of an odd configuration, it's that Lectric XP trike and it has a hub motor mounted in a mid drive position/.

Thanks for great thinking! all DC motors won’t work well in low speed ( speed drop 0 -> Am go sky heigh), and the power connector is simply clip on and will be killed fast on heigh electric current, thought my idea was old fashion and no longer true on fancy hubs, very happy to see you speak out to public. Hub drive die in few month on hill area, that’s half prize of mid drive.

@chigao4698

3 жыл бұрын

Price

@difflocktwo

3 жыл бұрын

Controller will control amps.

@chigao4698

3 жыл бұрын

@@difflocktwo , thanks, so i was wrong & amps won't go hi, then still won't get max power in low amps, still not good hubs in low speed right?

@difflocktwo

3 жыл бұрын

​@@chigao4698 every application needs the correct motor. if you need high power and low speed, you need a big motor. or you need expensive gears. many electric scooter and skateboard use hub motor. hub motor is good if you choose the motor to match your needs.

Yes, your example is a little dated, but a good one. Thanks for the assurance. I don't want a scooter, i want a bike. The ebikes I see now are all huge heavy things. I'm going the other way. Light weight mostly people powered.

I have a mid drive motor like Johnny say they are best for the hill the on problem with mid drive is it kill the chain and socket and if you put it in the smallest gear (11) the chain will skip over the sprocket even if they are new most bike power wise are good with max of 150 watts which the human leg can push out so if you have a motor like the bbshd that pecks at 1500 watts will kill the chain and the sprocket

Here in the uk and I think most of Europe we have by law a maximum of 250 watts motors for our ebikes and governed to 15 mph . so a lot of effort on our part to go up most hills and I should imagined a lot of motor burnouts , I for one finished pushing my Kalkokoff ebike up a moderate steep a hill which was no fun ,as I had to go back down on foot to push my wife’s bike up that bloody hill ,

Technically correct, but not every moderately powered hub motor is weak. I was on a group ride recently with 5 mid drive bikes. 1 had a 500 watt motor, 3 had 750 watt motors, 1 had a 1000 watt motor. I had the only "cheap junk" hub motor, but for some reason I was the only one who could climb a 20% grade without pedaling.

Ive installed bafang 250 watt motor. Can do 12 degree slopes here in uk. Used your install video thanks. Mid drive of course. Had to use a bike shop to get the bottom bracket off

Great info review

Maybe let the dog talk more, but the 18% grey background on this one was spot on. Anyway, this is a big improvement over the pin wheel rockets we were trying back in the 60's on our stingrays. Think grass fires. So for the bOOmers, make a Mid Drive that loots like the plastic Varoom (Matel???) with the sound feature ...

To compare two ebikes going uphill midriver needs 700 watt power at peak where the hub drive needs 3000-4000wats to do similar job.

Good explanation

I just tried taking my hub motor camping...didn't work. I had to get off and push while giving it full throttle lol. I have a 1000w mid drive on the way and keeping the hub motor on a separate throttle when I need an extra boost. I have it...might as well use it.

Your explanation makes sense. Thanks for it! Why not put a hub at a mid drive location DIY?

There is so much choice out there now that I think a person should talk to a professional such as yourself and find what is best or at very least narrow down to a few choices.