Sign up here for Dennis MacDonald's course "Reading The Gospels With One Eye on Greek Poetry - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/homeric-mimesis Grab his book here - www.amazon.com/Synopses-Tragedy-Gospels-Dennis-MacDonald/dp/B0BPGCDV2F/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3S162M55XF0C7&keywords=Dennis+MacDonald&qid=1681333186&sprefix=dennis+macdonald%2Caps%2C232&sr=8-1

@mrtmrf5007

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad i actually saw this video and witnessed someone as he said fundamentalist claiming knowing a lot about Christianity but actually not knowing christ... too much knowledge and not understanding a thing of what Jesus teach is what this video taught.. thanks ...as Jesus says you can get all the knowledge in world but if you do not have christ you have nothing....

@Phoenixacresfarm

Жыл бұрын

​​@@mrtmrf5007 having been a student of scripture (as a committed, born again believer), for the first fifty-years of my life, I studied my way OUT of Christianity. If you're truly seeking truth, you'll have to free yourself from your denominational beliefs, study church history, compare the pagan beliefs of neighboring nations to those of Judaism and Christianity - and study Middle-Eastern history through at least 400CE. Blessings on your journey. By the way, I'm sixty-two years old and have lived my best life, since leaving the "faith". I find my heart is more tender toward others (instead of being judgemental as I used to be). I find I enjoy life so much more, knowing all people are broken, and that we are on this journey together. We don't need a "savior" to forgive our sins. We need each other. Yes, I fully believe the soul lives on, but there is no place called "hell". That idea was "borrowed" from pagan myths, for the purpose of controlling the masses. This information is readily available in the writings of the early church fathers. I have some idea of what the next part of our journey looks like, based on hundreds (maybe thousands), of NDEs I've read since the death of our youngest son six years ago. The Biblical rendering of heaven doesn't seem to fit...

@happyninja42

Жыл бұрын

good god that thumbnail image of him makes him look like a geriatric version of that tim and eric, awesome show, good job character that became the internet meme. The 'mind blown by the cosmos' skit.

@bijosn

Жыл бұрын

The title is misleading, he didn’t leave Christianity, he left organized religion and the “church” but he became a true Christian.

@tropicaussie4572

Жыл бұрын

​@@Phoenixacresfarm 👍 Very similar to my story . I too was a believing "born again" christian who believed in the bible , "accepted Christ as Lord and Savior" etc . However , starting out as a believer, I spent many years intensely researching the historicity of the bible and the Abrahamic religions including Christianity and it eventually opened my eyes and my mind to reality and I am now a dedicated atheist. I now truly think that the Jesus of the NT never actually existed as a historical figure , as there still is absolutely NO corroborating evidence from any external sources independent from the New Testament contemporaneous to his supposed lifetime. I also learned along the way much more about scientific reality of cosmology, Abiogenesis, evolutionary biology and in particular psychology and neuroscience and its significance in religious and superstitious belief.

I love that statement : " We're rising apes not fallen angels" ! ❤

@ingehanson

Жыл бұрын

Because it is really true. Our soul in order to become god conscious and god co-creators move from rocks, the vegetables to animals to human to super humans. super human means we have arrived, no longer have to reincarnate but consciously can now go on creating in other universes and planets.

@Mika-El-

Жыл бұрын

Probably both rather than either or.

@DISCO-munication

Жыл бұрын

Me too, I think it was originally a quote by Richard Dawkins but not 100% sure

@Okijuben

Жыл бұрын

​@@ingehanson It's a beautiful thought - 95 million generations have passed since our ancestors crawled out from the sea and onto dry land. And here we are, pondering our own existence.

@DesertSky928

Жыл бұрын

@@Okijuben I seriously doubt it. "Everything Came from Nothing" aka: The Big Bang Theory? ...created by a Jesuit "priest"----yeah, a priest of satan. This video is deception-----that revolutionary spirit will never die in these demons-----it's why Canaan was supposed to be utterly destroyed---the genetics were so corrupted----mRNA - DNA - GMO "food", animals, chimera....The Days of Noah----we're here----this is happening.

Dr. MacDonald is an honorable man. We need many more like him right now. ❤️

@tracewallace23

Жыл бұрын

In places of power🤔

@Kenneth-ts7bp

Жыл бұрын

No thanks

@Imagicka

Жыл бұрын

Religious faith destroys honesty and integrity.

Props to MacDonald sticking to both intellectual and moral integrity 👏

@bertrandrussell894

Жыл бұрын

I agree with his departing Christianity on intellectual grounds. Moral too in that the idea if hell for disbelief is reprehensible. His taking the church's refusal to lower the flag for King - saying he was an apostate - as racist, does not run through. Superstitious mumbo jumbo yes. Racist, no.

@seangeorge3648

Жыл бұрын

Morality on what level, what is the morality based on?

@bertrandrussell894

Жыл бұрын

@@seangeorge3648 Intelligence empathy and wellbeing. The same morality believer's take to the text that makes them disregard the..well...colourful bits. It's certainly not based on bronze and Iron age desert dwellers imagining yet another deity.

@seangeorge3648

Жыл бұрын

@@bertrandrussell894 all completely subjective, no foundation and a complete load of nonsense, without acknowledging that the foundation of western society is those texts and the fact that those texts have stood the test of time proves it’s validity in society. It is far more than imagination vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2) is a gene in all humans that make us want to seek a higher realm. For you to be so subjectively arrogant and call the writers desert dwellers and subjectively say which parts are literal just shows your level of stupidity to the highest degree.

@dhss333

Жыл бұрын

"Props"?

Bob Jones has always sounded like a terrible place.

@Philusteen

Жыл бұрын

I mean, right????

@kevinjanghj

Жыл бұрын

The pastor at a friend's church graduated from Bob Jones University. At one point, as a diasporic Chinese living in Singapore, she actually tried joking with me to say, "Kevin, Christians should not really marry someone of a different race." That was not a good joke. Neither was it justifiable even on a fundamentalist count.

@Poppy-333

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinjanghj I agree that isn’t something to joke about!

@Kenneth-ts7bp

Жыл бұрын

Sounds sound to me. Christians must reject Marxism at all costs.

I feel honored to share this planet and moment in history with men like Dennis and Derek. Well done gentlemen, thank you so much for what you do. 🤝🏼

@marktwain5232

Жыл бұрын

I agree 110%. Derek Lambert at "Myth Vision", Jacob Berman at "History Valley," Neal Sendlak at "Gnostic Informant", Dr. Dennis MacDonald here (I absolutely LOVE and totally support this very fine Man! He has made a MAJOR breakthrough in NT scholarship!) , Dr. James Tabor, Dr. Justin Sledge on the priceless Esotericism channel, and ALL of the other MANY excellent scholars they have discovered and brought to Global attention are now leading the entire World in the use of the Internet in the independent investigation of truth. It is spectacular! There is just not enough praise in the World to adequately laud them all! Kudos to your great success Derek Lambert and Dr. MacDonald! I enjoyed this interview so much too down memory lane. I am the same age as Dr. MacDonald and vividly remember every single second of those days of Soul crushing turmoil in the Streets of the United States! Unfortunately, Uncle Sam got me from 1969-1971 but I survived and that experiences put me on my own life long Spiritual search in the independent investigation of truth. I wish all of us on this thread could all go back to August of 1969 and all go together to Woodstock! The Guitar Fret Board was carrying the truth in the profound Cosmic Turmoil of those days! I miss the subsequent light-upon-light of that Era! After my military service, my Band in the 70's and 80's rebuilt my Soul! We played Oceans of Bob Dylan, The Band, Tom Petty, Neil Young, CSN&Y, John Kay of Steppenwolf, Delaney and Bonnie, Ian and Silvia, Seals and Crofts, John Prine, and my Great Lifelong Fave of all Leon Russell! I met Janis Joplin twice and the great Genya Ravan once! What a time! I miss the late Randy California (Randy Craig Wolf) of the Band Spirit so much! That Band was Divine Revelation back then. Great Blessings upon every one of you fine Souls on the Myth Vision threads!

@Thegreatone-tx1yl

Жыл бұрын

Dr King was a sexual deviant. Christians who actually practiced their faith should have wanted nothing to do with regardless if he was doing some good things.

@UrMomsFavSnack

Жыл бұрын

@@marktwain5232 I couldn’t have said it better myself!🤘🏼🤝🏼

@marktwain5232

Жыл бұрын

​@@UrMomsFavSnack Thank you, Sir! Always remember that somewhere in the Universe it is always San Francisco 1967 or Paris 1848! I am listening to my Genya Ravan CD's today! Maybe fire up my living room Marshall Stack! She is still with us! The Janis Joplin of Łódź, Poland!

I like this guy. Human compassion,Social justice drove him out of the church.

@Kenneth-ts7bp

Жыл бұрын

Ignorance made him an atheist.

@Joe-bx4wn

Жыл бұрын

@@Kenneth-ts7bp There's a lot of gen Z Christians leaving Christianity. We need to bring them revival.

@Kenneth-ts7bp

Жыл бұрын

@Joe I met a young black man about a month ago who told me he left the church because the leaders seemed immune to judgment. The young people had a higher metric to live by. I don't know exactly what he experienced; but, he sides with BLM, Antifa, LGBTQ, etc. He is obviously not a Christian. I don't know that he ever was a Christian. I have gone thru hell and high water; but I cannot deny the truth, even though I have failed to live by it many times. You must endure to the end.

A great reminder to create something beautiful today 💯💐🙌🏾

@francmittelo6731

Жыл бұрын

What's the point? In a billion years, humans will either be extinct or evolved into something unrecognizable. So, whatever you "create" today will be meaningless and forgotten tomorrow.

@termination9353

Жыл бұрын

- The Gospel was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.

Wow... that gave me chills... Derek, I so appreciate the fact that you're a GREAT listener... a rare thang these days. And Dennis said so many things that I feel every day but cannot express. Rising apes - not fallen angels... Amen.

As a former Christian myself I found this to be an interesting dialog, and the MLK episode while at Bob Jones would have pissed me off too. Although I still consider myself as a moderate, and also patriotic in my political thinking, religious harm to others and the infected is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed.

@MarmaladeINFP

Жыл бұрын

You might find some historical context interesting. In the US, the ideal of patriotism comes from the radical American revolutionaries who identified as 'Patriots'. They saw themselves as being patriotic to their own liberty, freedom, and rights. To the extent of defying and revolting against political corruption, unjust governance, and oppressive ruling elites. As the aged Revolutionary veteran Levi Preston put it, "We read only the Bible, the Catechism, Watt’s Psalms and Hymns, and the Almanack. Young man, what we meant in going for those redcoats was this: we always had governed ourselves, and we always meant to. They didn’t mean we should." That was the working class radicalism that demanded democratic self-governance, continuing on with Shays' Rebellion. This kind of patriotic ideology and rhetoric originated in and was borrowed from the English Country Party. It first formed prior to the regicidal and egalitarian English Civil War that happened more than a century before the regicidal French Revolution. Such radical views were voiced strongly during and after that rebellion, in having been most clearly articulated and promoted by the Real Whigs or Radical Whigs. Some of the Radical Whigs, in identifying as 'Patriots', saw no contradiction between being patriotic in their loyalty to the people and in their disloyalty to the crown. The beheading of the unpatriotic king was perceived as a patriotic defense of the people, although patriotism was theoretically neutral toward monarchy, if it relied heavily on anti-monarchical republicanism. This is what has led to much strange use of patriotic rhetoric. Many of the MAGA insurrectionists, on January 6, perceived themselves as being patriotic in attacking and seeking to overthrow the elected government. But it also explains why a radical proto-leftist like Thomas Paine could simultaneously identify as a patriot and a citizen of the world, while playing a leading role in the revolutions of two separate countries. The defining feature of original patriotism was not pride in ethno-nationalism, allegiance to country, and submission to empire or nation-state; all of which the patriotic Anti-Federalists were critical toward. Instead, it was all about solidarity with the people, but it didn't necessarily limit which people one identified with. It had some essence of early class consciousness, a populist sense of the people versus corrupt elites. Such rhetoric was already appearing in the 14th century English Peasants' Revolt. It was equal parts classical pagan republicanism and the egalitarian teachings of Jesus. As the dissenter preachers put it, on earth as it is in heaven. Those revolting peasants ended up killing aristocrats, bishops, and other oppressive elites. But for context, they were responding to violent oppression that killed vast numbers of peasants. At the end of their revolt, they even captured the king but were stopped by their hope for a 'patriot king' who would represent and serve the people. The idea was the king had been deceived and manipulated by corrupt advisers and courtiers. This was the early underpinning of the Country Party versus the Court Party, where it was idealized the King and the People against the Landed Aristocracy. It's the same reason the American Revolutionaries also initially sought the king to intervene in Parliament.

I grew up at BJU. Both my parents were on staff there. His account of his experience there is absolutely how it is.

Very thoughtful and inspiring story. The experiences and changes many of us went through I'm sure.

@Kenneth-ts7bp

Жыл бұрын

Hopeless

We need more loving and compassionate people like these two gentlemen in this world !

This stuff is amazing to me as an ex JW. We were told that only our organization could properly interpret the Bible and we had all of these evangelizing schools and programs to teach us the truth and help us teach others in our "life saving ministry." We didn't do Jack crap except get indoctrinated with Watchtower theology. So many more options available, so much more to study and learn out there that none of us had any idea about.

@artstrology

Жыл бұрын

Did your group openly discuss making sure members sought jobs in the public sector, like family court or other offices ?

@compositioncompilation

Жыл бұрын

I never really grasped the impact of rev 11:6 in my 50 plus years as a born in Witness.. Then seeing rev 11:10, that solidified my confidence that jw,s were on the right tracks

@compositioncompilation

Жыл бұрын

Rev 16:13&14 reveals Who goes out to the relevant authorities to get THEM to clamp down on Gods representatives .. Rev 16:8-11 reveals who they are, where they've come from..& the behaviour they're observed doing . What's happening now ? 2 verses away from Armageddon now..

@cygnustsp

Жыл бұрын

@@artstrology I remember a very long time ago my friend's gf got a state job and everyone thought it was a great idea but I don't remember anything about the church saying it was a good idea to do so. Mostly we were discouraged from going to college and to get jobs like carpentry and plumbing.

@artstrology

Жыл бұрын

@@compositioncompilation The christian doomsday clock has been at one minute to midnight for 1,700 years.

Sometimes seeing the evil of an ideology makes you see it for what it is.

@bijosn

Жыл бұрын

What is the evil of Christianity?

@27273100

Жыл бұрын

@Corringham Depot -- Exactly. The moment people wake up, they *will* be pissed because they were outright cheated out of what they deserve -- the actual truth **WITHOUT** the money, toys and extravagant homes.

@charlestownsend9280

Жыл бұрын

​@@bijosn did you not watch the video? Several were mentioned in the video.

@njhoepner

Жыл бұрын

@@bijosn Not three pages into the magic book we get a genocide that would put Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined to shame. Not three pages from the end we get another, even bigger, so much blood you could float ships on it for days. Christians praise their God for the first one, and look forward to the second one. And what determines who gets to be one of the slaughtered? Incorrect religious belief. The kinds of attitudes that encourages are an evil in themselves.

@Kenneth-ts7bp

Жыл бұрын

How do you know something is evil?

*Dr MacDonald is so well spoken, a very gentle soul. I admire this man.*

Powerful testimony, got me tearing up as well

It took me a while to learn, but Christianity was hurting me. You might call it Religious Trauma. I went from Evangelical to becoming a None. It took 20 years after I asked, "What does it mean to live by Faith?" During that process I learned that I was gay. Then my whole life made sense. Religion kept me deep in denial, which oddly enough, kept me safe. After that, most of the Believers I knew over the years turned on me, abandon me, and kicked me out of homes and a church. But that is not the reason I de-converted. It was studying the bible did that led me to becoming an atheist.

@mender722

Жыл бұрын

@@angelt17 A highlight of my journey was going to the Freethought Library to sit in on a podcast of Atheist Experience and Talk Heathen. I met some cool people, too.

@eliasvalle8241

Жыл бұрын

Was the main reason you left the faith because you realizes you are gay and the Bible teaches that is a sin.

@adamplentl5588

Жыл бұрын

​@@eliasvalle8241 perfectly valid reason. There's nothing wrong with being gay and the Bible is a horrid, bigoted little hate manual.

@mender722

Жыл бұрын

@@eliasvalle8241 No. Shortly after I came out (at age 52) I joined the Gay Christian Network and went to the annual conference for ten years. I met a pastor there who had a gay son and he wanted to attend the conference to help him understand. They were a very close family, so having a gay kid wasn't going to shake them up. Anyway, I told him that coming to conference was the only time I felt comfortable 'going to church'. Also, after coming out, I bought a stack of books to read and study how best to reconcile my faith and sexuality. I ended up writing a paper on the subject called Homosexuality on Trial. Even my encounter with Westboro Baptist Church, didn't deter my belief. My de-conversion was a lengthy process. The pivotal point was seeing the story of the Garden and The Flood tale as myth. They were foundational to my faith, but they turned to smoke and blew away, as did my faith. It was then that I became an unbeliever. Getting kicked out of a longtime friend's house and passively forced out of a church hurt, but it didn't hinder my belief. It was how I saw the bible in comparison to what I perceived as reality that did it.

@seangeorge3648

Жыл бұрын

Your an athiest! quite a dogmatic statement, so your a nilistic and believe we came from nothing out of nothing?

Thank you Dennis! All the best for Health and Happiness !!!!

His daddy’s support made me emotional too 🖤 What a gem he is. Thanks for this interview

Beautiful. I'm a Muslim identified humanist... I don't care what anyone believes. Only if you are loving and compassionate. Thank you both.

@william6223

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Sounds good

@davidfiler7439

Жыл бұрын

Not a proper Islamist then?

@annodomini7250

Жыл бұрын

yet Muslim first? Are you aware that Muhammad was a caravan robber, a warlord, an owner of 'sex slaves' war booty (rape), he was a killer of humans. This is your perfect example, if you are genuinely Muslim, you cannot be a humanist.

@matsjonsson1704

Жыл бұрын

@@davidfiler7439 Probably not since islamist is a political stans and islam is a religion. I'm an sceptic , i hate ignorance, you mofo qualify. So you must be a theist. Christian i suppose? From the rot Islamists get their grit.

@habeebdauda6606

Жыл бұрын

​@@davidfiler7439 extremists you meant

Reminds me how the Lutheran Pastor at the Sandyhook memorial was chastised by the head of the Missouri Synod for participating in a interfaith prayer service and demanded an apology.

@marktwain5232

Жыл бұрын

I did not know of that one, but the exact same idiotic "Missouri Synod" chastisement happened to a Lutheran Pastor in the original 9/11 interfaith Memorial Service in September 2001. I was raised in the relatively liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and I did not even know that there was a "Missouri Synod" sect that was so profoundly fundamentalist. Of course, after 1933-1945, some of the more drastic writings of Martin Luther did NOT have such a good look ...

@rodbrewster4629

Жыл бұрын

@@marktwain5232 I was Misery Synod but my church was in a college town and it didn't seem that illiberal to me. Only after I left did I realize the synod was in general nuts.

@ingehanson

Жыл бұрын

@@marktwain5232 Never heard of the "Missouri Synod". But Christian fundamentalism can become a real hindrance for future development. I voted for Trump in 2016 and reluctantly for him in 2020 because of "warped speed" clot shots, but now the Trump following has really become a Christian Fundamentalist cult. No deviance is allowed or one is run out of "Dodge". DeSantis is being attacked by the crowd as if he is a devil. they are just as authoritarian as the Left now. some of the statements are idiotic like: "god gave us Trump and if you are not for Trump you are against god". "Trump will bring Judea-Christian' principles back to America and the world."

@Mika-El-

Жыл бұрын

@@ingehanson Gosh, you really makes me feel less lonely. I am a swede and your words could be my own. Wish you the best. Blessings!

Really inspiring how someone can take the core of what the New Testament teaches and overcome the moribund orthodoxies that arose from it. I grew up Catholic and the hymn that resonated with me was "They can tell we are Christians by our Love." - If that was the underpinning of Christianity, the world would be different.

@MarmaladeINFP

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, there are actual loving Christianities, however small of a minority they are. I was raised in a hyper-liberal Christian Church that upheld God as Love and took it seriously in both theology and practice. At least by a half century ago, the Unity Church was already doing gay marriage ceremonies.

Good work giving Dr. MacDonald a platform here.

As a Christian I am so happy Dennis stood up for what's right.

@Augfordpdoggie

4 ай бұрын

The bible is harry potter from 2000 years ago- its been debunked

Thanks for sharing this interview. I needed to hear it. There’s so much I share in common with Dr. McDonald’s Christian background, his journey out of Christianity and how that formed within him his current ethical convictions.

This resonates with me from the old days before KZread. Back then, if I had been asked by an Evangelist/Apologist if I was a Christian, I would probably have said, "Yes, but I don't think that you are". As I never saw any of the different brands of Christian churches following the actual teachings of Jesus. To me they all failed on the basic test of toleration, for a start. I guess that's why they don't usually ask that question up front.

@TheMahayanist

Жыл бұрын

Same. Christians don't care about what the Bible says. Time and again they ignore it.

@termination9353

Жыл бұрын

- The Gospel was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.

@PaTrick-cf6ev

Жыл бұрын

​@@termination9353 no not really, there isn't evidence for any of that. I vote twisted word of mouth. It's not even clear if Jesus ever existed.

@adamplentl5588

Жыл бұрын

​@@termination9353 nobody asked.

@termination9353

Жыл бұрын

@@adamplentl5588 Free interactive content. Pearls of wisdom. Free of commercial interruption. -Your Welcome

You two fine people really do make the world a better place ❤. Thank you ☺️

Lovely. Thank you both ❤

Terrific presentation, I wish everyone everywhere would watch it.

Love your experience and explaining ur values and beliefs. Ur definitely not alone Sir ❤

"We are rising apes, not fallen angels." I had to Google that right when I heard it. African Genesis is now on my reading list! Thanks!

It puzzles me that Dennis omits his years as professor of NT and Christian Origins at Iliff School of Theology in Denver. In my PhD coursework there (‘93-‘96) in Biblical Interpretation, I took his courses in Koine Greek (Acts), Johannine literature, Gnosticism, and the Corinthian correspondence. Dennis knew my conservative Christian upbringing. Even with our deep disagreements on “theology,” he was quite generous and gracious in spirit. Two occasions stand out. He once invited me to present my view of Matthean priority to his master’s NT Intro course. He gave me the whole class session, tossed a few “softball” challenges questions for good measure, and was pleased at how we modeled respectful disagreement - as was I. For his Corinthians seminar, I exegeted the women’s head covering passage in 1 Cor 11. Some feminist course peers strongly objected to my presentation in predictable ways. Dennis gave my work such unexpectedly high praise, I challenged his comments: “Dennis, we all know you don’t agree with my (at the time) complementarian view of this text. What gives?” Nearly 30 years later, I still hear his reply, “Oh, we agree on what Paul meant by what he wrote. Here’s where we differ: you think Paul as an apostle is authoritative even for today; I think he was a S.O.B.” Fair enough, Dennis, fair enough. And if I may … would you address a rumor? Scuttlebutt was that you returned your bachelor’s diploma with instructions to expunge every indication you attended or graduated from Bob Jones U. True? or Legend? Thank you, Dennis, for your kindness. May all your days be a blessing.

@marktwain5232

Жыл бұрын

I upvoted you for your praise of the kindness of Dr. MacDonald but I am not exactly sure of all the nuance in what you are saying here?

@juan_martinez524

Жыл бұрын

His Wikipedia lists his attendance at Bob jones U

@Defectivegg

Жыл бұрын

I'm interested into knowing on why was Paul S.O.B.? I see it a lot on the internet, where is the basis for it. I'm still new at reading the Bible and haven't gotten to NT part. Thx in advance 😊

@brandonfredenburg8343

Жыл бұрын

@@Defectivegg He can speak for himself if he wishes, but I understood him simply to mean that he held Paul’s views on this matter contemptible.

@brandonfredenburg8343

Жыл бұрын

@@marktwain5232 I intended no nuance. 1. Dennis did not mention that slice of his life when I interacted with him. 2. He treated me with kindness and respect. 3. He engaged our theological disagreements professionally and candidly. I gave two examples. 4. Let me add for clarity: in beautiful contrast to how many current academics use shame and power to suppress differing views and enforce conformity, Dennis never let our theological differences affect his fairness, kindness, or authenticity toward me.

What an awesome human being! Much love to you both

one of the most powerful interviews you've put up here

We would be kinder to ourselves if we hadn’t been told we were depraved as children. We are worms, we are sinners, we deserve death and hell etc. We don’t give ourselves credit for morality because the church took that away from us.

@jimmythebold589

Жыл бұрын

i've always regarded that noise from xtians to be low self esteem, projected on to the rest of humanity and on to their bogus god concept. it's horrible, yes, it's a problem for people raised xtian, even if they leave the faith, that kinda thinking can morph into secular low self esteem. vouchsafe that all former theists conquer their low self esteem.

@annodomini7250

Жыл бұрын

so what is the foundation of your morality? is it what you think is right?

@leroyh8977

Жыл бұрын

The doctrine of depravity is necessary to be saved from one’s self.

@canwelook

Жыл бұрын

@Anno Domini The foundation of morality is empathy. No empathy => no morality Empathy => morality

@marktwain5232

Жыл бұрын

@@canwelook BINGO! Well said!

Dr. MacDonald is a gentleman and a scholar. Great interview. I could easily listen to him for another few hours.

@sonofman9404

Жыл бұрын

You are not a christian.

"Theology is a long four-letter word." Perfect.

Love this conversation . Thank you Dennis and thank you Derek MythVision.....

GREAT story, Dr. MacDonald. We have a great deal in common.

Thank you Derek and Prof Macdonald. Very powerful testimony

Awesome video! Thank you so much for sharing.

💕 thank you sooo much for this! 💕

Dr. MacDonald, you've had quite the set of experiences in organized religion, much more than me, but have kind of ended up at the same point. And, at 70, I am perhaps a little older than you, and I want to tell you it's not over, I am gently looping around back to a less scientific, more spiritual way of thinking. Not in any organized religious sort of way, I am just looking at our incredibly complicated interconnected world and starting to disbelieve the theory that this all, this amazing world of integrated everything, looks less and less like an incredible stroke of chance, and more like "something" organized this somehow. I hope to progress from here, and I wish you happy searching too!

"We are rising apes, not fallen angels." That statement gave me goosebumps, i loved it!

@bradleyperry1735

Жыл бұрын

We are neither of those things. Both ideas are stupid.

@JRRTokeKing

Жыл бұрын

@@bradleyperry1735you’re an ape. Not sure why you’d call what you are stupid. There’s a reason why evolution is accepted as fact, it’s because the preponderance of evidence supports it.

@EluviumMC

Жыл бұрын

@@bradleyperry1735 alright, mr. Big brain. What are we?

@bradleyperry1735

Жыл бұрын

@@EluviumMC We are mankind. Unique bearers of the Image of God.

@EluviumMC

Жыл бұрын

@@bradleyperry1735 thinking god has any influence on our image ia stupid.

Haven't heard the name Bob Jones in a long time lol. The weird racism is so baffling to me as a mixed race guy and even the independent fundamental Baptist churches i went to spoke highly of Dr. King and his ideals. Now, they weren't great about their treatment of women and even children sometimes, but that's another topic lol. I'm glad I found my way out of religion.

@THESMARTERMAN555

11 күн бұрын

MLK was a horrible person in his life, and was guided by Marxist who more than likely wrote his I have a dream speech. They wanted to destroy America and bring communism. I don't think MLK was a religious man, it was about using segregating the black population to cause upheaval in America.

I despise Fundamentalism with all I have. I am an atheist/agnostic and I have no use for religion anyway. However, I realize its importance to many people and I deeply respect that. I draw the line with religious fundamentalism. Good this scholar escaped his past upbringing.

Best interviewers are the ones who have the self control and respect not to interrupt but listen. Nice interview!

Thank you both.

funny how for lot of people, me included, that end up leaving christianity part of the step for it is actually understanding and even liking Jesus in the new testament and then looking around and realizing that people that call themselves christians do none of it lol

@Nocturnalux

Жыл бұрын

For me, I always hated the Jesus character. He was random, made precious little sense, expected everyone to understand his cryptic statements and just blindly follow him. I hated religious authorities- in my case, nuns in Catholic school- but Jesus never resonated with me. Still doesn't.

@Nocturnalux

Жыл бұрын

@@IllbedamnedifIainthandsome I don’t, no. For every single decent thing he said, he’d be deliberately cryptic and still expect to be understood. And anyone who tells you to love him more than your family can only be termed a lunatic. Or a cult leader. Either way, someone you’d be best not listening to.

@JRRTokeKing

Жыл бұрын

@@IllbedamnedifIainthandsome eh, anyone who tells people that the afterlife is more important than this life, without evidence, is extremely problematic. Sure, he said some good things, but his theology as depicted in the gospels does not warrant belief because of the lack of evidence.

@judylandry302

Жыл бұрын

You do realize that the first "book" of the New Testament was written 40 years after Yeshua's death. The "New" Testament was compiled and commissioned in 350AD by Emperor Constantine and was written in Greek. It was given out to 50 Parish Priests in order to control and tax the unclean and illiterate Gentiles that the wealthy Jewish Pharisees (money grabbing Priests) and the Jewish Clerics wanted nothing to do with. The letter "J" wasn't used in english language until the 14th century. Yeshua actually translates to "Joshua". The Council of Nicaea voted Yeshua as Son of God in 325AD, over Adam, Moses and Abraham.

I loved this interview!

Mann, These interviews are so powerful!

Inspiring video. Story was heartbreaking. Been there myself. Welcome to the wider and far more interesting world!

Fantastic guest, thank you

I hope that Dennis inspires you Derrick to write your own book. You have learned so much and have become so articulate since starting your channel. And your rising ape quote is just one of the many examples of your ability to articulate. Get your mind and gained knowledge down on written paper brother!!

I will have to say, this is one of the most powerful episodes you have posted, real and humble in the purest form, this is the great awakening that consciousness is rising on a world stage!!😊

Dennis MacDonald is a Good Man and I’m so glad I found this group

Dr. Dennis is really inspiring! Thanks Derek

Thank you Doctor MacDonald, For your story. & Thank you Derek for your platform... You are loved Dennis. Goodie 2-Shoes.

I told my wife, these are the type of people the world needs more of. Thank you Mr. McDonald for being an honorable and integral man.

That was a beautiful story. I can relate. I got drafted for Vietnam.

19:33 We're rising apes - not fallen angels. Yeah, that's the way to think! And we have to keep the morals up. In case of need even leave unreliable (and comforting) beliefs.

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

When you have the fruit of the Holy Spirit: let me know!

@kpunkt.klaviermusik

Жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 Holy spirit? You mean when people are behaving like being electroshocked and talking in languages that noone understands?

@stevenkarner6872

Жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 I have the Spirit of Compassion. It is much stronger.

@derreckwalls7508

Жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 Can you tell me what "fruit of the Holy Spirit" means? Because when I was a Christian, everytime I asked a question about the Holy Spirit I got a different answer. I studied the Bible at a Christian university and even my theology professors gave different and sometimes contradictory descriptions. How do _you_ define it?

@mg-ew2xf

Жыл бұрын

​@@davidjanbaz7728 I think I have it actually. Can you offer an example of someone who has it and prove they have it so I can compare?

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. Bob Jones influences are a part of my story. My parents and uncle and aunt attended BJU. I was sent to BJ Academy in the 60. I escaped my family's dysfunctional dynamic as soon as I was legal aged. I had to completely disconnect.

Thanks for sharing this story!

Humanity is where the rising ape meets the falling angel- Terry Pratchett

Dr. Dennis R. MacDonald is a decent human being. I hope he can inspire Christians to follow a path similar as his.

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

LOL 😆

@uair9

Жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 What's so funny?

I'm 72 years old , was raised as a catholic, my family including myself converted to Adventist when I was In my late teens , I gave up religion when I was around 40, but still remained a theist until I retired 7 years ago, I had time to read and study myself , I now see the harm inflicted on humanity by fundamental religions and religions in general, I'm now an atheist. It's refreshing to be free .

@tonycook7679

Жыл бұрын

well done, it takes some time to think, but if you do that you must end up where you are now.

@codex3048

11 ай бұрын

I hope you make some time to study all the harm inflicted upon humanity by atheistic ideologies.

Simply, thank you Derek and Dennis.

A great guest. It shows that even a man schooled in faith, in seminary, surrounded by fundamentalism, still is a good person as to support MLK Jr and oppose the Vietnam War, and come out of theism altogether. There are good people in religion. Don't ever call them stupid, or idiots, or attack them for their belief. If Dennis can come out of religion, so can others, and we should help them with education rather than with condemnation.

@PBAmygdala2021

Жыл бұрын

Well said! Street Epistomology feels like a better approach than old-school Matt Diilihunty (he has relaxed as of late).

This is a great talk ❤

@sonofman9404

Жыл бұрын

it is not. it is a wicked talk couched in soft tone. morons everywhere

It’s incredible the number of the most devout believers who become scholars because they love Jesus and their faith so much, leave it.

A Christian identified humanist and a theo-skeptic. I like it! Seems like I may land somewhere in that vicinity myself, though I am no scholar. But I remember being deep in it and being right wing politically (because Christians are ONLY conservative, right?) and it struck me: When will the swords be beaten into plowshares? When will we be people of peace? When will we return good for evil? When will we bless those who curse us? When will we pray for our enemies? (got some side eye from fellow fundies when I started praying in earnest for terrorists in prison. Yes. Men who physically attacked the US, and the call was to pray for them, and I did) ... this didn't cause my faith crisis, but it was a cognitive dissonance when I was smack dab in the middle of right wing evangelical Xtianity.

I can totally relate to being a “Christian identified humanist and a theoskeptic”

"I believe we are rising apes, not fallen angels." Beautifully said!

@criticaloptimist7961

Жыл бұрын

The truth could be we are both!

@NeuroticBliss

Жыл бұрын

​@@criticaloptimist7961 no

@JRRTokeKing

Жыл бұрын

@@criticaloptimist7961 the evidence only shows we’re apes

@RHope7

Ай бұрын

​@criticaloptimist7961 The purpose of life is a raised consciousness. Native life, fallen angels, and a point of spirit origin. How does human awareness survive the narcissistic, if not within the Christ purpose faith? How has it?. Narcissism undermines growth and global humanity. Prophesy reminds. It has been waiting for the communications age to clarify collective self respect is not achieved entirely by ourselves. Just contributed to.

Extremely thought provoking!

Wonderful interview and exposition.

I decided to write this long text because I am saddened to continue to see many people walking away from Christianity because of the false Christian traditions that they grew up in, were influenced by, and taught. I used to wonder why many people turned away from the Bible, their belief in Christ, and God entirely and have come to realize that the act of salvation is truly a supernatural occurrence. I have seen that many people can grow up having a religious experience with all the trappings of the faith and not ever truly have come to have a saving faith. If this was not the case, I know I may have turned away because of things I have come across that caused me to question my faith, but I am thankful I have been able to find answers although they are not always comfortable ones. I appreciate the honesty of those like Dr. MacDonald who discuss why they left Christianity as it is a true indictment of how Christianity is being practiced in America. In our current U.S. environment and considering its’ past, it is amazing that anyone would be a Christian when you examine the rest of the truth about America and look at what is currently going on with many Christian organizations. Fortunately, God has been real enough for me to see my own faults as well as the faults of others, to know His grace and mercy in my life, and not elevate others Christian leaders to near godhood. We should be able to truly fight for justice in our society as Christians but often the church has turned a blind eye or is complacent about social problems except when it comes to abortion and homosexuality in our current environment. Many Christians don’t seem to care about the current thread of racism that continues in this country, social conditions after children are born, the poor, discrimination in education system, and ignore their own leaders’ indiscretions for the sake of power. I believe true Christianity teaches us to love our neighbors and to love our enemies. Christians are supposed to be the ones that are persecuted for preaching righteousness and not persecuting others because they don’t believe the same. Jesus primarily criticized the religious leaders of His day and showed love to the people who were rejected from the temple, religious practice, and society. Coming out of Fundamentalism beliefs shouldn’t be a path out of Christianity, but a path toward discovering what being a true follower of Christ is. For years, I have studied former Christians who seem to rather find a way out and calling it the truth. Do the biblical scriptures truly have no veracity and were the words of Jesus about himself, fulfilled prophecies, and the things he said about God just a lie? I suppose some must think that. Learning about similar ancient faiths, other religions, and having questions about biblical authenticity should not necessarily take you away from your Christian belief. But I believe if that belief is rooted more in a religious practice than a relationship with Christ, sooner or later, it will become apparent, if not to yourself, to others. And with that type of foundation, it makes perfect sense for many to walk away. Many of you may be familiar with the parable of the Sower, and how it speaks of the seeds that fell by the wayside, stony places, and thorny places as not being a good and proper environment for spiritual belief and growth. This is what I see happening to many Christians today. Read Matthew 13:1 - 23 to see what I mean. There is a reason why God forbid the Israelites to mingle with the other nations. He explicitly told them after the Exodus that they shouldn’t make covenant with the other nations or their gods because those nations’ beliefs would make Israel sin against Him and become a snare to them. I see that the same principal applies today. People are willing to go outside of Christianity to other faiths or beliefs instead of truly learning about God for themselves and end up turning away. For those of you who may not have left Christianity, I recommend you at least truly read the Bible for yourself and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth for you. I hope you can come to a true saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and not just a particular brand of Christian faith that you are following. Question your leaders if you need to and move to another church if needed. Ask questions and study about different translations, supposed biblical contradictions, apocryphal books, church history (the good and the bad), and learn from it. Compare how some Christians act compared to what the Bible teaches and examine if what they are teaching and doing are rooted in the love of Christ. Open yourself to study ancient history to help inform your faith more fully while learning about things that occurred in the past during Christianity’s development. Nothing wrong with noting similarities but that doesn’t mean they became Biblical influences. There is much you can be exposed to and educated about without losing your faith. One reason I watch videos like this is to understand how and why people leave Christianity and then study objections that they may have. I also continue to study history, Christianity (old and new), other biblical scholars (for and against) but I know that nothing has ever come up to turn me away from Christ’s love. I pray for many of you to reject the false Christianity that you may be coming from and/or experiencing and come to and keep your faith in Christ. 😃🙏

Dr. Macdonald has always been a favorite of mine.

@mytmouse57

Жыл бұрын

I like his brother Ronald better.

❤ hey man I was impressed with your editing at the open right away but after watching the story this is a legit piece man! this is a really good little interview. Well done all around 🤙

What a wonderful show!

I love that quote, "We're rising apes not fallen angels."

@mytmouse57

Жыл бұрын

We can’t be both? False binaries are the bane of clear thought.

@van3363

Жыл бұрын

@@mytmouse57 Once you study other religions including Judism and history, and not taught with a Christian bias you will clearly see the lie that is Jesus. It was nothing more than a way for government and church to terrify the masses into submission.

@JRRTokeKing

Жыл бұрын

@@mytmouse57 what evidence shows that we’re “fallen angels”?

@van3363

Жыл бұрын

@@JRRTokeKing 😂

MacDonald has been one of my favorite biblical scholars for years. The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark was a 'mind-blown' moment, but one you can't unsee once it smacks you in the face.

You can't run away from God. I tryed like so many others to walk away but the Holy Spirit kept bringing me back to faith in Jesus. The Glory of God's nature and his persistent love brought me to rebuild my trust in an amazing God. I was but am no longer Pslam14:1

What an amazing human.

Fundamentalism is a great creator of atheists.

@HkFinn83

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately the stats on church attendance show that the more progressive churches are creating atheists and the fire breathers are growing rapidly

Thanks--I am a Christian Pastor- still a Christian as I write this comment but Dr. MacDonald leaves a deep impression on my own personal ideals of being a humanist--thank you for this interview

Thanks 👍

What a nice man.

Is fantastic to hear this story. Thanks guys for sharing this. Very informative and thought provoking, especially on the morality topic... this issue of morality in Christianity has been very clear to me also. It's like Christianity for many people is nothing like what the New Testament presents in terms of morality -- it becomes mostly made up stuff that contrasts horribly with the inclusiveness and some of the progressive ideas we see being introduced in the NT.

Jesus Christ loves us all for I am the greatest of all sinners yet He loves me. Have mercybon us Lord.

I so appreciate the positivity.

I'm so glad this didn't start with the whole "we......are......mythvision" thing. That intro needs a gentle retirement.

I like this guy.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32

Love it ... A powerful story.

You can be a Christian or be honest with yourself but you can't be both. Welcome to freedom of thought.

@pepepena1937

Жыл бұрын

-“Freedom of thought”- Do you even know what that is? Do you realize that the greatest thinkers believed in a higher being?

@carefullychristian8657

Жыл бұрын

Guys here is freedom You only understood xtianity from nt but ot explains nt. The blessing of God would come to tbe world through one,messiah and IT did the world has emensly used tanakh gospel teaching of do to your neighbor what you Mike him to do for you.there lies the bases of justice sustenta

@carefullychristian8657

Жыл бұрын

You may Argue you are but what do you say about spirit world and fact puenting to hereafter be honest.if you doubt spirit world reaf

@vegasflyboy67

Жыл бұрын

@Pepe Peña The smarter you are, the easier it is to come up with reasons to believe. Has little to do with being honest with yourself.

@vegasflyboy67

Жыл бұрын

@carefully Christian There are zero reasons to believe there is a spirit world or that idea could exist. If there was evidence for the supernatural or God's, you guys would be on every mountain, screaming it out loud. All you have are personal experiences, feelings, and a book of lies.

Christianity is the killer of civilizations ♥

@jimmythebold589

Жыл бұрын

it also destroys families, friendships and society. and individual minds,.

@nyxjones5797

Жыл бұрын

@@jimmythebold589 Sad but true.

Excellent . ❤

"We are rising apes, not fallen angels..." That's a pretty powerful statement. And if we don't come together against fundamentalism. We will destroy the very water we drink and land for food.

What did CHRIST had to do with someone's bigotry? When GOD called Israel to be HIS people, it was for the sake of distinction as a "Kind" of people. And that "Kind" of people was to reflect and represent GOD as being "LIGHT" for clarity in aspect of the "Will" of GOD. It had nothing to do with them being a perfect people. It is about GOD WHO IS PERFECT in all of HIS ways. Christians have the same call...to be the "LIGHT" as a living witness honestly before both GOD and mankind. WHY? Because of spiritual blindness that has been and is apparent in the world where spiritual darkness is abundant. And again... Satan laughs because he just captured another who blames GOD. SAD. But Satan is the ultimate loser. And it will be wise and smart not to be deceived by HIM. Return to GOD/CHRIST before you close your eyes to this life. PEACE

@curbroadshow

Жыл бұрын

Word salad

@ruudboy7800

Жыл бұрын

Amen

@mannysspumps9924

Жыл бұрын

Beautifully said my man Praise our Lord Jesus Christ🙏💪❤

@mannysspumps9924

Жыл бұрын

@@curbroadshow yep slappy!

@chickenfist1554

Жыл бұрын

What a load of drivel!