"Grief porn". I'm glad that I finally have a phrase that accurately sums up this game.

@heartlessangel2910

3 жыл бұрын

Hell yeah. It got pretty nauseating seeing Ellen Page constantly crying.

@dorellusthagod

Жыл бұрын

"Grief porn" must be David Cage's entire ethos as a writer. Most of his games incorporate it to some degree. It's like he's always saying "This is BAD and you should feel SAD! Why? Because I SAY SO!" I get that his games are very personal but his own twisted understanding of those emotions overtakes even simple common sense.

@kingamoeboid3887

10 ай бұрын

@@dorellusthagod It does seem contrived as how conflict is dealt with. I heard from Robert McKee that you must make your villains have more dimensions by having a lot of depth. He mentioned Iago from Shakespeare's Othello as a perfect example.

I am so mad I couldn't make this premiere. I can't believe a meme I made made it into a video by THE Zac Frazier

Even though I agree with you, and even though I particularly hated the final segments of the game, it was an overall enjoyable experience for me, partly, maybe mostly, because it was different. I think it’s existence has value as something to pick apart, repurpose, tweak, shine, oil, write a better script jfc. I’m far behind on gaming, so maybe there already are games out there that does this better. (Just got a ps4.) (But why did the researchers give the baby to a random couple, when they knew it had powers? «Just let us know if something strange happens» ... )

Thats why I played it Chronologically, the original order was so sloppy and confusing. Im honestly sad that theres 0 plans for a sequel even though they set up the ending for one.

Sorry but I need to call you out somewhat. Cage didn't say that fail states are a failure for every type of game, he meant specifically for the types of games that he makes. That aside, fantastic stuff my dude. David Cage is such a hack and it genuinely bothers me how he sometimes is put on a pedestal for his shlock so I appreciate a video like this that exposes how deeply flawed his work is.

@ZacFrazier

5 жыл бұрын

Shit, I'm a dummy. Now I kinda wish I went into talking about that quote more in relation to narrative focused games, that coulda been a little fruitful

@youssefbaati4372

3 жыл бұрын

"Put on a pedestal" lmao he litteraly was awarded the "Légion d'honneur" by the french president. Dude made that "game" & became a Lord 😭😭 (Also, dope stuff video 😍)

@RevJ7

3 жыл бұрын

Ehhhh naw, hope Detroit made you eat those dumbass words bout Cage. He's clearly more talented than you.

@galacticfederationrep1555

3 жыл бұрын

Depends on controller used ones may ben thrown a lot lol.....

i'm currently taking a class called "writing for interactive narrative" at my uni and this video covers a lot of the things we've learned!! i'm hoping to write for games someday so this video was very informative, thank you!

@ZacFrazier

3 жыл бұрын

I’m glad you got something from this and I wasn’t just talking out my ass 🙏 and I wish you luck in your career, just remember that if David Cage somehow was allowed to write for games, then you are definitely a shoe in

@hearsae

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZacFrazier lol that's strangely inspirational, thank you!

@kingamoeboid3887

10 ай бұрын

@@ZacFrazier same here. I've watched some really crappy films that seemed contrived at times without any understandable purposes.

I feel like the only reason why Detroit Become Human is as decent a game as it seems is because the playable characters are Androids. This way David Cage didn't need to write meaningful human beings and he can get away with doing the whole "do a series of boring menial tasks" multiple times. However using Androids didn't fix David's desire to put "cool" imagery over having his world make mechanical sense. When Marcus enters Jericho, a secret android shelter, why do they have barrel fires everywhere? Why would an Android need fire for warmth or light? How does it make sense for one android to heal another android's wound by cauterizing it? This is just one small example of how David destroys his stories by not thinking them through entirely. Then there are the more insulting aspects to his writing. In the pre release to Become Human David swore up and down about race not being a factor in the game only to have Androids sent to the back of buses, an overt reference to the Underground Railroad and "I have a dream" to be a literal graffiti choice in the game. And as cowardly as it is to use civil rights imagery while swearing your game isn't about race, it's not as damaging as the ending note of Willam Dafoe's character in Beyond which is basically "If you miss your dead family, just blow your own head off and you'll be reunited." When you think about that flippant use of suicide (or sexual abuse) as a cheap narrative device in the game you can begin to understand why Ellen Page and Willam Dafoe looked so miserable in all those promotional interviews for the game. His stories are great in concept but lack the proper vision. A fail of David Cage's design if you ask me.

I like the concept and the CIA part of the story but the crappy love story and random events ruin the parts that I thought were fun. Edit : I wish they had more stealth missions/actual gameplay

this is so excellent zac

Found your channel after just finishing the white savior chapter and looking to see if other people noticed. You put my thoughts into words perfectly and you also helped me notice other abhorrent aspects of the game I couldn't quite put my finger on. Don't even care for the spoilers, what a trainwreck of a game.

Zac, you did it. You made the definitive video on this game. Phenomenal job, had no idea Cage's work was that ignorant. Now I don't have to bother with it. In a way I'm really glad I didn't read over the script beforehand because it allowed me to take in this whole thing without any prior knowledge. I really really loved your Magic Mike video but this might just top it. Incredible job.

Carrying that hay bale gives me PTSD flashbacks to when I played Beyond Two Souls. It was the first and last David Cage game I played and will ever play cuz it was not fun.

Great video. There's a lot of good points in there that I agree with, although there are also some fundamental things about interactivity that I disagree with, but I thought even the stuff we differ on was really well thought out and explained. Keep up the good work.

@ZacFrazier

5 жыл бұрын

I'd be interested to hear what you disagree with honestly, I'm lookin to learn and gain new perspective

@SelectScreen

5 жыл бұрын

@@ZacFrazier Unfortunately, I think that discussion is more than a comments section can handle. Maybe one day I'll get around to making my own video on the matter. I guess what I'm trying to say is look forward to my video entitled "Select Screen DESTROYS Zac Frazier on Interactivity" some time around the year 2025.

@ZacFrazier

5 жыл бұрын

I'd be down for that

Hey Zac. I want to start off by saying, you created a well-thought-out and impressive video. You make a lot of valid points from the very flawed storyline to the inconsistencies in choices you make in the game that affect the outcome of the story. That being said, in my opinion, I think you are judging this game extremely harshly.

@ZacFrazier

3 жыл бұрын

I think the game is pretty bad, but if you get something out of it then that’s totally cool

@MrDarkman396

3 жыл бұрын

I just think that a lot of your points are nitpicks at best. 1. Choice Making: I argee that the choices you make in the game had zero impact to the story other than losing some characters possible. The game itself was jump from one cliche to another, it was jam packed with a lot movie tropes and the dialogue was cringey most of the time. That aside, I still was engaged in the story and that is because of the character of Jodie and her relationship to the entity Aiden. To me, those two were the focal point of the game and it's saving grace. Overall the performances are pretty good and I love the soundtrack. 2. Theme of death and afterlife: This point I 100% argee with you. That whole premise of going to another world when you die is a hot mess and doesn't make a lot of senses. With all of souls that go to this world does that include the bad ones. The idea to say it's okay to kill yourself or to say that death is a feasible option is extremely irresponsible. 3. Navajo section: This point has less to do with that moment of the game and more about your insinuation about that moment of game. The Navajo story was unrevealing, short and lacks any depth to narrative. At no point during that part of game(or any part of the game), did I find it being "racist". With all due respect, the fact that you jump to that conclusion, highlights something very pretentious about you. I find your opinion to be arrogant, vague and superficial. Why would u assume that a person helping other people is "racist"?

@chocolatebunnies6376

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrDarkman396 On your third point; this is not about a person helping someone. This is about a trope where the white protagonist is presented as a saviour to people of a different culture, and the way they save is by being better than them at their own culture. The grandmother was familiar with the ritual, the amulets were shallowly buried a whole minute’s ride away. In the 200+ years since the entity was released, how is it none of these people were able to repeat the ritual?

@MrDarkman396

3 жыл бұрын

@@chocolatebunnies6376 For the record, I'm familiar with the whole entire white saviour trope and when movies, TV shows or any other form of entertainment media does this, it's annoying. However, this particular game, in my humble opinion, didn't really setup that trope. The character of Jodie could've been anybody. She could be a black person, hispanic person, asian person, a native American from a different tribe. It's fact that Jodie just so happens to be a white girl saving a group of native Americans is "racist" in your opinion.

@chocolatebunnies6376

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrDarkman396 I don’t have an opinion on to what extent it deserves to labeled racism (it’s definitely not intentional or mean spirited, but writers should ask themselves where their ideas are coming from, before letting them loose on an audience.) I’ve told you what I find peculiar about the story. You’re right that it could have been any other culture, that we judge it more harshly when it’s a whitie. Such is our culture as a result of our history, both as imperialists and as storytellers.

17:11 FUCK I got chills at that cw. Incredible timing

I just found your channel and have been completely hooked. Keep making great content dude.

@ZacFrazier

5 жыл бұрын

Bless you friend

I had been considering getting the PC port of this before this video. Thanks for saving me money.

@ZacFrazier

5 жыл бұрын

No prahblem. If you really want to experience how dumb it can get, you could watch a walkthrough of it. Tealhollowgaming has several that I pulled footage from, and they have multiple playthroughs where they make different choices, and you'll get to witness just how useless a lot of them are

@braidena1633

4 жыл бұрын

This entire 'game' was hilariously tacky. It gets more fun once you realize no choice you make matters.

i still love this game

After I surprisingly enjoyed Detroit despite its clichéd/bad writing, naivité and superficiality I thought I could give Beyond another go after I quit it years ago (Just as I did with every Cage game outside of Heavy Rain and Detroit) but it seems like you just saved me the time and anguish :D Thank you!

@Colossal-Red

3 жыл бұрын

You could have liked it, there was a chance that you’d have liked it. But now that you’ve seen this video and can now see the issues clearly you probably won’t enjoy the game anymore...

@renmorpheus

3 жыл бұрын

@@Colossal-Red No, because I own it and stopped to play exactly because I did not enjoy it ^^

Meh, I had fun playing it. I quit Heavy Rain after a few hours because of the depressing story and lack of positive agency; every choice felt like a bad option.

@ZacFrazier

5 жыл бұрын

and that is a-okay

@Assassinwolf731

4 жыл бұрын

That's kind of the point

@abovethelaw4417

3 жыл бұрын

Both heavy rain and beyond two souls is trash

Love the title, and I agree. David Cage is irredeemable in general. You covered a lot of the harmful tropes in this game, and somehow found a genuine, respectful way to make people laugh. When someone finds a fun way to help people learn, and to think more critically, that's an important video in my eyes.

Good catchphrases and very accurate statements (e.g. "grief porn", "suicide is a complex issue"). You've just earned a new subscriber. :) Indeed, extremely low amounts of interactivity rob the illusion of control from a player. This, as a consequence, renders a software less of a game. By the way, "a paranormal scientist" is an oxymoron. I hate stuff that include such blatant bullshit. And... supernaturalism is an antiquated and an extremely cheap storytelling tool that conditions major misconceptions and ignorance about the world we all live in. Being a consequentialist myself, what I'm saying is that supernaturalism most probably does more harm than good to Homo sapiens. Cheers, VassilevB

@ZacFrazier

4 жыл бұрын

yo thank you for watching and subbing man. I will say I like supernaturalism, even as a materialist myself. I think in this case it poorly constructed the rules of it, and in doing so said something they probably didn't mean to

@vassilevb-gmng

4 жыл бұрын

@@ZacFrazier I'll wait for your take on Detroit: Become Human. I think it should the better game (haven't bought neither of them yet, but do I have Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy in my library).

As much as I really enjoy watching long-form essays that tear problematic media to shreds, I think you were able to sum up everything I was feeling about this game in under half an hour. Great job

Great video and excellent points. I will say though that I still really enjoyed the game and the world it built.

It’s not racist, it’s not boring & your review is I guess your opinion... I disagree, I’ve played through it twice on my PS3 then on my PS4. This game deserves a play through.

@askmelater8175

4 жыл бұрын

I just finished it tonight and dude you are smoking something crazy. This game was garbage. At no point did I enjoy this game and almost fell asleep several times. I played it through and it was a chore

@abovethelaw4417

3 жыл бұрын

All David cage walking simulator movies are trash.

@Yoshsterpalooza

3 жыл бұрын

@@askmelater8175 I did find the story interesting. I was invested in Jodie and Aidens characters and I wanted both of them to find a way to fit into a world that constantly kept rejecting them. I didn’t mind the main love interest all that much, it explored an interesting character arc of trust and redemption, however I will agree there are quite a few plot holes in terms of Willem Dafoes suicide not being a solution for him if he knows about this after life, and that the gameplay can be quite boring due to the lack of and consequence due to no different endings

My only complaint is that you missed a chance to make a John Cage joke, perhaps mentioning had he played a key role in the development, 4’33” of the game would have been redeeming.

@ZacFrazier

5 жыл бұрын

and I could have made the point at 4:33 in the video

@EggBastion

29 күн бұрын

4 FOOT 33 INCHES? WAT!?

This is actually ridiculously good

Wow, you've totally missed the point of one of the best games ever.

I just finished this game (bought for a fraction of the original cost) and I wish the Navajo part was expanded into a whole game, but without the whole white savior thing. A game about a Navajo family trying to free themselves of an ancient curse would have been way more interesting. But only if someone else wrote it. 😂

great job, Jac

@ZacFrazier

5 жыл бұрын

sorry thats my sister

Loved your video, came from another guys critique just bombing the stupidest stuff of the game, but you explain your perspective

I was about to buy this shit. From what I see here it's just a fucking movie, and it stops so it can tell me that I have to click to continue. Lame! This is why I never bought any tell tale games. I would just try the free first episode of something then not bother buying the rest. How about just charging the price of a movie rental instead of game prices eh. Sure I'd buy it then for $1.99 -$3.

quality content, subscribed

Worst David Cage game ever.

@ZacFrazier

4 жыл бұрын

True dat

@latinobunny9882

Жыл бұрын

Cast and graphics are absolutely epic tho, just wished there was more cohesion with the story. The cliffhanger just felt like David Cage doesn’t even know where to end the story so he just left it open. I really enjoyed the Navajo bit tho, it added more depth to the Infraworld.

Someone: How many endings can you cram together in one story? David Cage: YES

Your great, would love to see more videos like this on games.

This game is a masterpiece you wish you could make.

For me David Cage is bit of a hack writer his stories only resonate on a surface level and when dig just beneath the surface you find a whole heap of problems and contrivances. And I think the reason why he reason why chooses video games to tell his stories is because there's a lower bar of entry than professional made movies because he was either rejected or he knows his own scripts don't hold up. While you can defend him by saying the way the games are having to write so many paths is difficult and they're not all going to be perfect my rebuttal is that two souls is the most linear game quantic dreams has made and it's still has problems story wise meanwhile their other games judging their stories by best routes still have problems and contrivances.

i hate this game with a passion and can't find any other good videos that point out how awful this game is. and I actually liked Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain a lot. but that makes me even more angry, because they could have done a much better job.

@abovethelaw4417

3 жыл бұрын

Heavy rain is also garbage and so is Fahrenheit

@butchishere

3 жыл бұрын

Hate this game, Fahrenheit is at least a funny mess, Heavy Rain and Detroit are good imo

@abovethelaw4417

3 жыл бұрын

@@butchishere Nah Detroit and heavy Rain suck too

i get a "i blame women for why i cant get laid" vibe from this character