I would avoid that seller in the future just to be safe. Thanks for sharing so other people will know. Daves video turned out great!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Nash! I will for sure! Cheers.

Brand Neused. The stihl dealer, the guy buys his defective saws from, could be shut down it they get caught by Stihl. All factory defects or warrantied parts are to be kept for 3 months and then disposed of, not resold. Stihl says to keep the parts/machines for 3 months just in case they want you to send the product back. It's tough to throw something away and I know most dealers do business out the back end with defective/warrantied parts/machines.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

This makes total sense. Thanks Fill!

@5roundsrapid263

3 жыл бұрын

Most factories keep a tight lid on this stuff. They scrap it to protect their reputation. Definitely something fishy going on.

@philliphall5198

4 ай бұрын

Yep the shop mechanics take them home and fix them Then sale on marketplace or other sites That I know for a fact 😢😢😢

@philliphall5198

4 ай бұрын

It depends on the rep , some will have you take a slag to them and totally destroy them 😢😢😢

4:23 if he was buying new saws to strip and resell as parts, then he knew what it looked like. 2:05

@mscir

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed, wonder how the guy would like it if the payment had some holes in it.

There is one word for you guys and that is GENUINE !! I am in my 70,s and have sithl chainsaws and always do my own repairs. Found your channel and BOTH of you are GOOD!! Thankyou for all your videos and the ones to come ! Stay Safe!!

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

Wow, thanks!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Thomas! Thanks for the really kind words. We really appreciate it. There is enough negativity and bad energy out in the world right now, we try to focus on the good - and thats sentiment like yours. Cheers!

I love the channel and the everything you guys put out. Giving that Ebay seller the benefit of the doubt is probably the most Canadian thing ever.

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

we try!

@Sensei948

2 жыл бұрын

@@donyboy73 How to use it after this repair? how much oil? how long to work to give her time to cool down?

Love seeing you guys together!! Don your a great teacher I’ve learn much over the years thanks 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

Hey Guys, love the video. I'm an engineer who used to work for Stihl's largest (Swedish) competitor. What you're looking at on that piston is called porosity. Aluminum is particularly prone to it and it generally comes from the fact that when the molten aluminum is solidifying the material shrinks which can create small voids in the casting. Another source of porosity is trapped air or gasses in the mold. Often times it's an indicator that the mold is getting worn, the die caster is running the mold too fast, or the injection pressure is too low. For chainsaw pistons as long as the porosity isn't large enough or linked together enough to allow a leak it's generally not a major problem, but your piston looks like a pretty bad example. If your source is tearing new Stihl chainsaws down for parts he may be getting units that were scrapped by the factory (or dealer) due to quality issues. If that's the case he's probably not getting them through strictly legal means because Stihl would not want those units making it into the wild, even for parts.

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

thanks Eric!

That shows the character of a man, he's willing to give someone parts that he could have made money off of himself.

You guys make a great team,just subscribed to Dave’s channel he is learning from a good teacher.Thank you for sharing

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Thank you!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you kindly! We are a great team!

Thanks for the help diagnosing Don! I’m sending it back.

@logman6656

3 жыл бұрын

Something fishy going on there wonder if stihl know about what is going on with their rejected parts that is my opinion

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

@@logman6656I imagine Stihl would never allow this to happen!

@mikeremski2102

3 жыл бұрын

@@donyboy73 The top of the reject piston was stamped, I don't think Stihl would do that on a good one. I would expect most reject parts would go back in the melting post and reused. I agree that very fishy and Stihl should be very interested.

Great video guys, really excellent work, always enjoy your content. For what they are charging for the parts I think they should be much better quality and I’m talking about the manufacturer

I own 2 sthil saws that running fine so far after 10 or so years ,don’t think I need to rebuild any of them in near future but I’m confident that if I have to your vid’s will be in my arsenal 👍🏼

Very interesting! Another channel I watch uses the $33 top end kits found on eBay. He was mystified why they were only lasting about a year, and showed putting in kit #3. Lack of QC and inferior materials probably?

It seems the culpable party in this scheme, representing less than optimal quality for “new” is STIHL industries. They need to know that we know. Great video, guys.

I'm surprise that Stihl doesn't destroy rejected parts to prevent something like this. Stunts like this can tarnish their name.

@karlrovey

Жыл бұрын

The seller was probably supposed to destroy them but sold them instead.

Happy I'm not the only one who can't pass up on a free/cheap saw revival. Never needed one of those +50 saws I've done, but it warms my heart that they get to pull chips again.

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

right on!

Fascinating! Like watching a mystery! Well done, and a great topic!

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

More to come!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!!!

Donyboy73 I just cleaned up a carburetor on a husqvarna air raider my second time doing a carburetor cleaning

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

awesome Matt, you'll be a pro in no time!

Great video guys. And fwiw I agree, I would sand and polish the cylinder and see how it works. It would be an educational video for us, no? Cheers.

On man's junk is another man's treasure. Nice team work

@privateer177666

3 жыл бұрын

@Michael Farris. The plumber’s motto is “One man’s piss & shit is another man’s bread & butter”.....

Lovely stuff and knowledge Don Desjardins and Dave you lovely Roosters

Oh wow! I am so looking forward to Dave's success on this chainsaw project! I'm on the edge of my seat, waiting for the next episode. And by the way....who knew there was such a thing as factory rejects? If they're rejects, how do they end up on the market? Ethically, the factory should destroy the rejects so they don't make it out on the market and harm Stihl's reputation. That just makes good business sense.

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think Stihl ever wanted these to leave the factory!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with Don - I think something shady is going on. While you are waiting for the follow up video here on Don's channel - I did the full rebuild on my channel. Check it out if you like! Thanks for watching!

Wow, great content!! Loved it! 👍👍🔥

I have a Jonsred 630 & 670 can I put cylinder and piston from 670 on 630? I also bought a Stihl 044 that ran but not long tore apart and rings were stuck and 1 broke cylinder & piston look new but no markings anywhere to know what I got. I believe the cylinder is ok but need piston & ring but I don't know which one I need the 10 mm or 12 mm. Can you let me know how I make sure I have the right cylinder and get the right piston I would really appreciate it. Thank you

Thank you !

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Cheers!

I worked for poulan years ago at (one of) the diecasting factory for cylinders and any substandard part was immediately cut up and remelted in one of the melters or furnaces. not sure how things are now.

That is crazy I had to replace the cylinder and piston on my ms261 cm 2017 and newer version slant cylinder and I believe out the door after taxes in California it was about 250 bucks

I have a question about something other than a chainsaw question it's about a 1993 Polaris Big Boss 6x6. The main output shaft keeps shearing off. To find out what is the cause, what should I be looking for? Merci!

I would guess the reason the change the fins on the cylinder and leaned them downward is to catch more flywheel air for better cooling. My dads 592 is the same

When you mentioned that saw ran a bit "hot", would using a cooler sparkplug c ure that? Or did it tun a bit lean at WOT? Lastly, was there debris around the fins and shroud? I would try the cooler sparkplug. Thoughts?

That is a different angle for the piston travel. It appear that old saw with the new jug may not be capable of getting oil to the top of the cylinder. Are the crank an case different for the new engine?

Watch our video on proper chainsaw chain tension here; kzread.info/dash/bejne/fqCYmrKueM2rpto.html Watch our video on Dave diagnosing this chainsaw here; kzread.info/dash/bejne/rGqKlKakXcbLm9I.html Watch Dave's video on the factory reject cylinder kit here; kzread.info/dash/bejne/do6Em7SQn7PJerw.html

Hey in your pile of old saws do you have an MS 361 I would love to buy it

Goodluck with your saw Dave

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

It’s up and running Steve! Check out the video I did on my channel!

The new part was numbered "2122" and the other part that came off the old saw was numbered "1212". They are not the same number!!!

I bought a 'new' ms261 m-tronic topend kit from the ebay seller in Faribault, MN and sent it back as well. No pitting but way too much wear for a factory takeoff. In the end I sanded out the transfer in the cylinder and put a Hyway popup piston in it

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Bill... this will be the same person. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. I'm currently battling with ebay to get a return shipping label. How is the Hyway piston working?

@grifonks

3 жыл бұрын

@@DavesSmallEngines I used two Hyway ms261 popups, They are good, so are the hyway cylinders that I have used, probably 50 topend kits. It is the same slug that is in the pre-mtronic version and also works in ms271

@grifonks

3 жыл бұрын

@@DavesSmallEngines BTW, I have a new hyway ms261, non-slanted, pre-mtronic cylinder here. Dony can have it for shipping for his basket case. No piston, I stold that out of the kit. Thanks for the videos!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

@@grifonks hey Bill! I’ll talk to him. Maybe he’ll sell me that saw to fix too?!?!

Dave is a lucky dude to be training with you.

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

thanks!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I am!

What will hapoen if you used a new piston and rings on the original scored cylinder, after some 'smoothing' of the scores? Any drop in performance or reliability? Back in the days we used to ride 2-stroke 50cc bikes like that. Parts were just not available or too expensive then..

Thanks guys I am back into 2 strokes. :-)

Donyboy I just sent that trash back to the seller. What a scam!!!

You should get a clean shiny piston and wrist pin and c clips in a bag

Don't really know why but damn I enjoy these.

It'll work. No guarantees on long engine life, though.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Not good enough for me Newman!

Damn. Donyboy is a hell of a guy. Letting dave have those parts for a saw he is working on for nothing. Even used those parts command a premium price. Need more people like Donyboy in the world today. Then the world would be just a bit better place.

What caused the parts saw to fail?

Poor casting in the factory. Somebody in quality control may have thought it was smart to sell bogus parts and scam the inexperienced.

@matta3888

3 жыл бұрын

I have learned to avoid the generic Echo Speed Feed heads on Amazon. I should have bought the OEM Echo Speed Feed head.

Wondering if the top plastic from the older one could fit on the newer saw; That way there's no trimming required. And Donny: This is fun content! Thanks mate :-)

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Good question - Don if you have the cover still I will bring up my saw and we can check it out!!! Would have saved a lot of work!

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

@@DavesSmallEngines yes and we'll mention it in the follow-up vid!

@Sensei948

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesSmallEngines How to use it after this repair? how much oil? how long to work to give her time to cool down?

Don , you guys will like these a lot better , not so aggressive on aluminum ...Scotch-Brite Roloc Bristle Disc 07525, 2 in x 5/8 Tapered MED , they do make other grits also

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

thanks for the reminder, I think I have some in my tool box

So over on Dave's channel I commented something to the effect of "Stihl doesn't sell factory reject parts". Somewhere down the line I suggested a Stihl o.e.m. parts identification video and this IS a pretty good one however, the crown or combustion side of the piston should have an embossment or a casting mark bearing the "S" representative of Stihl next to the gas flow or exhaust arrow, unless of course they have stopped this practice. It would have been nice to see the known STIHL piston compared to the pitted piston.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Brian, good point. I’ll go shoot a quick video on what the OEM 261cm piston and slant fin cylinder look like for future identification purposes. Cheers!

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

@@DavesSmallEngines GOOD IDEA!

@Brian2bears

3 жыл бұрын

@@DavesSmallEngines After seeing the initial video with the pitted piston I looked around for aftermarket and found some. I had some suspicion that this might be one.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

@@Brian2bears any link to that Brian?

@Brian2bears

3 жыл бұрын

@@DavesSmallEngines I got a real good look at the cylinders, the "engraving" on the piston in the form of digits and letters caught my attention, way larger and the font looked strange.

will Dave put new rings on the used piston or use the ones on it

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Used rings for now as they are low use. I will buy all new OEM when I can find a legit piston and cylinder!

Don, can you provide names of the places you buy your aftermarket cylinders/piston kits for Stihl? I’m going to attempt to rebuild a MS180c (011) and have only the knowledge I’ve learned from your videos. Thank you!

I manufacture machine components and rejects are closely monitored at our facilities. I would guess stihl also has security to control rejects. If they dont they need to.

Those holes in the piston are caused by gas that is picked up from the atmosphere when pouring the casting.

Good day Don. Nice interesting video. How would you know chain saw got or is getting hot? Thanks

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

from the darker areas on exhaust side

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for this!

Don, I have a 20 year old craftsman mower with the 6.75hp motor with the square plastic carburetor. I have only attempted to work on one once but broke the fuel connection off 🙄. Any tips on getting the bowl off to clean it out.

@999thenewman

3 жыл бұрын

Treat yourself to a new mower. The ones with the vector carburetor aren't worth bringing back.

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

get a new carb or a new mower

I put the old style aftermarket cylinder and piston on my 261cm not realizing the difference at the time of order. My saw suffered a blow from a topped tree bolt that cartwheeled its way to crush my 261 heated handle muffler and cover. The impact broke exhaust port off my cylinder. I ordered the aftermarket replacement and upon arrival saw they were different. I tried it anyway. Trimmed plastic support off new cover and trimmed cylinder fins down from top of fins. Took quite a bit of trimming. Yes I realize that’s not great. The saw did run but not properly. It did not rev out fully or have as much power. There is a difference in these cylinders there is a small port on intake that prevents pooling of fuel on the newer style cylinders. This port lets fuel into base of crankcase so saw does not load up if memory serves correctly from arboristsite or ope forum. Hope u do well with swap. I hope to learn something to get me passed my issue.

Great video.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Leif!

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

What u guys are Canadian as well! Hell ya it’s nice to know that there’s more Canadians out there then it seems

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

There are about 35 million of us!

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

we sure are Canadian!

@randykeech3557

3 жыл бұрын

I thought the same.thing.when he mentioned canadien prices. We sure do get screwed over here on prices

@nathanv2358

3 жыл бұрын

Same. I'm from Ontario as well.

@kaynecustoza3365

3 жыл бұрын

@@DavesSmallEngines holly cow eh that’s a lot haha

How much to get a axle shaft done since you got one on the bench lol.

Gas Porosity is one of the main defects that can occur when casting aluminum alloy. Liquid aluminum can contain dissolved hydrogen. Shot speed, temperature, and the design of the mold can contribute. No way Stihl let that pass quality control. Not sure what Stihl does, but some factories used to immediately cut, drill or crush reject items, to prevent rejects from ending up on the secondary market whether by recycler not recycling, or stuff not in inventory going out the back door.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

I agree - I think this is shady business. I really appreciate your insight Jeff - It truly is great to connect with those who know what they are talking about. Cheers!

Are you sure that piston with a couple of voids is a quality escape?

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

yes, a chainsaw guru let me know that's what's happened

The divots are known as porosity. It happens when air is trapped in the molten aluminum as it's poured into the casting. Some very very slight porosity may be acceptable. It depends on the application and the mean cylinder effective pressure. I did 5 years of engine development with Navistar and I worked on the 7.3 L powerstroke diesel piston. We wouldn't allow any porosity because of the excessive pressure in a diesel, however, this being a two-cycle engine a small amount of porosity that didn't go all the way through the casting might have been allowed by the quality control people. I'd be more concerned about the lack of the cross hatching in The Jug. It's the cross hatching that retains the oil for the Piston to slide back and forth in the cylinder and not get scuffed or scored. Keep up the great videos guys I always learn a lot when I watch you. Michael Kalagian. BsME Mechanical Engineering, Chicago, IL, USA.

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

thanks Mikey!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Mikey! My father is a Mech Eng as well. He agreed this was a quality control issue. It is great to hear from you as well on an in depth thought on the issue with this piston and cylinder. I will be sending it back for a full refund. Much thanks!

So this is the prequel to Dave's video. Did Dave get his money back for that cylinder? I just noticed the paint pen marks. Did it come like that?

Love your channel but any videos I have to thumbs down and not watch. Sorry but I come to watch you. !!!

I got a stihl km130r with original piston very much like that piston but more pits. It runs as it always has but this is poor quality control, I'm a husqvarna man and never seen it on their pro machines they do seem a better build, and lasts longer. Had my saws since the 80's :-) I'm too old for auto tune haha

I was wondering why you couldn't use a pot of water on the stove and boil the Earth carburetors with the detergent

I got a lot of my supplies for power equipment from Jacks Small Engines no spaces

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

I'll check it out David - they don't have the new style cylinder yet (noone does).

I just bought a China one from farmtech check their Web sight .let me know what ya think

Donyboy73 do you work on pressure washers often? I got an older one with a Honda engine. Got it used from Craigslist for $175. I noticed oil starts leaking just below the oil dipstick tube. I removed the pump and looked at the engine seal and it’s fine and the pump seal and it’s fine. I also installed a new dispstick tube on it and installed a shutoff valve since it didn’t have one. Getting frustrated as it makes no sense where it’s coming from. The washer that mounts the Honda engine to the frame is where it seems to be at. My engine oil level is same and pump level is same. Ugh 😑. It only leaks when sitting for days without use. When I use it no leaks.

@logman6656

3 жыл бұрын

Might need new gasket

@appleztooranges

3 жыл бұрын

@@logman6656 easy to install?

@logman6656

3 жыл бұрын

Sorry mate I call the seals gaskets. in your comment you seals are good are they new. I'm not an expert not my job is just repair my own power tools and friends. Hopefully some one with more knowledge can help if it was mine try new seal

@appleztooranges

3 жыл бұрын

@@logman6656 yeah seals are fine. I checked. No leaks there

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

I would have to see it, but sounds like you need anew gasket

Cylinder bores: Bare aluminum, hard metal liners, chromed, or nicasil...?

Someone sneezed in the mold and that tiny bit of moisture created that surface porosity.

New piston and cylinder for ms261cm sell for 250 Oem no aftermarket crap. eBay was ripping u off

So was this filmed before Dave trimmed or after

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Before

After watching this video I'm just hoping that the cylinder and piston I bought from Ebay for my ms271 will be better than this one. It's coming this Wednesday... 😨

Pls make a video on if a generator runs perfectly fine but produced no power/electricity

@dave6251

3 жыл бұрын

ck out James Condon's channel on you tube

I think most of the eBay and Amazon are mainly rejected and it’s a way of making money, most people who buy them are not mechanics or shops When they fail the owner thinks it’s there fault 😢😢😢

In factory someone in quality control forgort that that piston is not good!

I've learned buying chainsaw parts/saws from anyone besides a store or oem is risky.

Oops forgot. The 'pitting' is called porosity. It takes a bit to get the casting machines warmed up and dialed in to make correct parts in a 'batch' or 'run', so parts at each end of the cycle often are 'bad'. So, the fellow who told you such was correct. Most companies crush/damage such rejects. I suspect Stihl had an oops where that didn't happen and it won't happen again. Unless those are made in China.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

I guess I'll never know!!! Good points Jack. Thanks for the comment.

My friend just bought an Ebay kit from China for his Stihl. As genuine Stihl parts are just stupid expensive, a rip off, one can buy two working saws for just the prize of Stihl ignition module,. His cylinder/piston kit turned to be good enough to use. No problems so far. Stihls are fairly good saws, but when my saw started to act up, the ignition was failing, I just gave the saw to my neighbor for parts. I will not buy spare parts for Stihl prizes, I just boycott that. Stihls are not that good to pay that much. It is like MBs and BMWs, they used to be the best, so the brand makes them too expensive.

Crazy... So you think it was caught at the dealer stage or after, and thus returned? Or somebody taking the failures out the back door of the factory? (Or maybe even a ghost shift at the factory? Not sure how much manual labor is required, and how much the ghost shift people have - though they're pretty common in the electronic world.) Power scotch brite pads make everyone look like a hero 👍 you can even get wheels for your bench grinder.

Why would a pitted piston be put in an engine in the first place? Then they run it at the factory and then reject it. I thing he bought a straight up used parts.

The seller is probably a dumpster diver at that Stihl dealer. If it was a real "factory reject" it would have been melted down for a new casting and never left the building.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

No kidding!!!

This vid is after Dave's where he has fixed the saw.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Don runs a shop full time and has two videos to edit a week. These were all filmed a week or so back - I just had time to edit mine. Cheers!

Again I've never seen that bad of quality of pistons come out of anything Stihl has made short of aftermarket. As for a shop selling parts off of a warranty I've never seen either. Not saying it couldn't happen. That shop would be leaving themselves open to a lot of things. I have heard that the Chinese rip-off of the Stihl 660 has been brought in to Stihl dealers to be worked on & was refused. That owner was very upset. Can't help but laugh on that 1.

You got scammed, what benefit of what doubt? You were sold goods not as advertised therefore you are owed money from eBay. Don't let them fob you off.

Here’s a clue. If it’s been run, it ain’t new!!! If it’s a new saw stripped down for parts ask why??

How come you don’t use the good piston in the Ebay cyl.? The piston have the same part number. Ask the seller for a part refund.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

I've tried going down that road. Not going to happen. Im returning for a full refund.

I thought all Stihls had rejected cylinder kits! A Swede saw guy........ ;-)

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

lol

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

@@donyboy73 We found the Husky guy!!!

One more reason to stick with the Husqvarna brand.

don i have a 291 needs cylinder and piston 1000 1k $$$$$ at the stihl shop here

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Way to much!

Many ways to make a living

Why would they install reject parts on a saw. Sounds like B.S. to me. I would hope that for what Stihl products cost that they wouldn’t put subpar parts on. I would say that a quality assurance employee sold rejected parts for profit but the p/c had been run so I don’t know.

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

No kidding Andy!!! Total nonsense!

Awh that is so sooth and slick ...that's just some heat. Am I watching chain saw porn? Good video btw. keep up the good work. :)

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!!!

I BOUGHT TWO BRAND NEW SAWS FOR $300.00

ebay is a crap shoot you never know what you are getting but the guarantee is good.

i would just let machinest take thats much out at all grooves its out and find new piston in that

@dujeamizic3588

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe it was coinsedence!Ebay is crap!

@broo_shs

3 жыл бұрын

@@dujeamizic3588 Maybe in ebay but in proper factory a coincidence to get a product that does not pass the product inspection line is really small or their computer program is not good enough to distinguish the defective product because if a person looked at that piston it would immediately see that this is not good at that should get on people's machines

D@D, $300 dollars!!! That must have included health care. Love these videos guys.

@donyboy73

3 жыл бұрын

I hope so lol!

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, I've had my fair share of "free" hospital visits!!!

The saga continues ...

you got screwed happens on ebay all the time

@DavesSmallEngines

3 жыл бұрын

I just sent it back Deborah!